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Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: idolminds on Saturday, March 24, 2007, 04:32:39 PM

Title: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, March 24, 2007, 04:32:39 PM
The trailer is supposed to drop on the 29th. I wonder what its like. Rumor has it they are using that snazzy physics/animation blending technology, so running people over should look great.

You know what I'd love to see out of a GTA game? 1930s Chicago. That would be awesome.

On a similar note, I've reinstalled a GTA game. I started with San Andreas but I'm not getting into it. The whole gangsta thug thing just isnt appealing. So I went back to GTA3...its awesome. Nothing like being the silent badass.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Saturday, March 24, 2007, 05:28:03 PM
GTA3 is my favorite one.  It didn't have the sweet 80's theme of GTAVC, or the sheer size of GTASA, but I think it had the best city.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: angrykeebler on Saturday, March 24, 2007, 06:53:15 PM
You know what I'd love to see out of a GTA game? 1930s Chicago. That would be awesome.

Mafia was kinda like that. 20 mph car chases FOR THE LOSE
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, March 24, 2007, 06:58:36 PM
Mafia was fucking awesome.

But yeah, I really couldn't care much less for another GTA.  I just plain have no interest.  And yeah, SA was great but the gangster thing got old in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: iPPi on Saturday, March 24, 2007, 08:55:27 PM
Mafia is an amazing game... one of my favorite games of all time.

GTA3 is almost my favorite GTA game as well.  VC was quite fun, but I didn't like the city, and I hated SA.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, March 24, 2007, 10:33:39 PM
I never played San Andreas. After I beat GTA3 and VC I pretty much had enough GTAness. I mean I played the crap out of those 2 games. Its kinda like what happened with the Tony Hawk games, I played 2 and 3 and the GBA ports and they are fun as hell but the sequels are just more of the same and I'm just burned out on it all.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 06:56:58 AM
San Andreas is very good.

I can get into the "gangsta" thing, but my problem is just like I normally have w/ most GTA games -- play it for a while, get stuck on this one mission trying it 100 times to failure, quit for a while, then come back to the game a few months later.

Personally, I like VC the best, of the GTA's.

For GTA4, I dunno'.....but, the band era been done by Mafia, the 80's been done (Vice City), and the modern era been done (GTA 3), and the "gangsta era" been done (GTA: SA).

I'd like to see a different era I'd like to see, though. I dunno' what era, though....
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 08:10:23 AM
The gangester thing was a massive turn off, especially the black culture stuff. But once past that the game has little to do with it. Actually it amazed me how massive the game was.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Jedi on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 03:21:09 PM
I think it'll be a modern era GTA as (currently) it has a number not a title like VC or SA. But with the trailer they might announce a title and completely scrub my theroy.
Anyway I'd rather see another modern era GTA, GTA 3 was my fav' I liked SA a lot except for the size; I have a something of an issue regarding the size of the game world and what they did with the space but mostly how some missions had you driving for f'ing ages.
I think maybe a modern GTA with some of the concepts from SA and VC would be kick ass.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 03:45:04 PM
Maybe the next GTA will be GTA: 1960's.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 04:19:17 PM
GTA3 has the best city. Its laid out well, you're never driving for ages, and its well detailed. VC and SA had larger cities, but everything seemed much more spread out.

GTA did the 60s...London: 1969. Though looking at the "IV" on the trailer countdown site, I'm going to agree with Jedi and they are doing a modern GTA3-style game.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ScaryTooth on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 05:25:08 PM
I think it would be cool to see an older era kind of style. Like GTA: London. I've loved all the GTA games, and I'm sure this one will rock too. Can't wait to see the trailer.

Maybe they will do a future GTA. With hover cars, and laser guns. Highly unlikely. But it would be interesting.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 05:30:21 PM
I think all the numbered GTA games (i.e. GTA 1, 2, 3) been "modern setting and timeframe" upon their release, pretty much.

I think all the "spin-off" GTA games have been labeled using a "colon" --- i.e. GTA: London, GTA: Vice City (80's), GTA: SA (90's).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 05:30:54 PM
I think it would be cool to see an older era kind of style. Like GTA: London. I've loved all the GTA games, and I'm sure this one will rock too. Can't wait to see the trailer.

Maybe they will do a future GTA. With hover cars, and laser guns. Highly unlikely. But it would be interesting.

GTA 2142?
Hmmm....will it come w/ in-game ads, too?? :P
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Jedi on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 05:46:28 PM
I think all the numbered GTA games (i.e. GTA 1, 2, 3) been "modern setting and timeframe" upon their release, pretty much.

I think all the "spin-off" GTA games have been labeled using a "colon" --- i.e. GTA: London, GTA: Vice City (80's), GTA: SA (90's).


Haha yeah we've already established that, but thanks anyway Captain Obvious  :P

A future setting for GTA is an interesting idea but... I'd rather have a modern one at this stage.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: iPPi on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 05:49:32 PM
I think it would be cool to see an older era kind of style. Like GTA: London. I've loved all the GTA games, and I'm sure this one will rock too. Can't wait to see the trailer.

Maybe they will do a future GTA. With hover cars, and laser guns. Highly unlikely. But it would be interesting.

Futuristic GTA is pretty much gonna be like Crackdown.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 05:50:23 PM
Futuristic GTA is pretty much gonna be like Crackdown.

W/ in game ads, I bet. :P
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Jedi on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 06:22:31 PM
What is with you and in game ads all of a sudden D?
Has there been talk of them being in the next GTA?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 07:14:13 PM
What is with you and in game ads all of a sudden D?
Sorrie, the GTA: Futuristic idea someone came up w/ made me think of BF 2142; heh.

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Has there been talk of them being in the next GTA?
No, I'm just being a wise-ass.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Jedi on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 09:12:37 PM
Ah I see.

Well whatever they do for this game I hope they do more of the gang street wars like in SA. I have to say that was the most fun I had in that game was stomping around the street gunning down the enemy gang members until you controled the block. It was a pitty they didn't continue that elsewhere.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, March 25, 2007, 10:41:49 PM
I agree.  That was good times.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: shock on Monday, March 26, 2007, 01:04:02 PM
Vice City is still my favorite GTA.  Others were good, but that one just hit me better than any of the others.

*reinstalls GTA 1 and 2*
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Monday, March 26, 2007, 01:24:26 PM
Oh snap...*goes to find GTA2 CD*

Yes, I know you can download them.

Hey, did you guys know you can make GTA3 just like GTA 1-2? Theres camera modes for a top down view just like the old games. Not sure if its in VC or SA...but its pretty sweet.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, March 26, 2007, 01:37:34 PM
I played with the camera switch for a while, but overall it's kind of hard to use.  Still, it was fun to mess with.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: nickclone on Monday, March 26, 2007, 02:10:41 PM
I liked Vice City, but I thought the city was too restricted and hampered the car chases. I've never played SA, but GTA3 is still awesome. If it had the upgrades that VC had, it would be better than VC.

I heard rumors that the newest GTA will be set in Japan.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Monday, March 26, 2007, 02:21:50 PM
Nick, check out the Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City mod. I gave it a spin a few days ago. Its pretty much a port of GTA3 to the Vice City engine. Works quite well, just a few things missing.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Monday, March 26, 2007, 06:39:18 PM
I liked Vice City, but I thought the city was too restricted and hampered the car chases. I've never played SA, but GTA3 is still awesome. If it had the upgrades that VC had, it would be better than VC.
I totally agree with you.  I loved the 80's cheese, but the city was horrible.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: nickclone on Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 11:55:00 AM
I totally agree with you.  I loved the 80's cheese, but the city was horrible.

Yeah, not only was the layout horrible ( I know less curvy roads might be boring, but it is a city), but the roads were really narrow and usually one lane for some reason.

Nick, check out the Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City mod. I gave it a spin a few days ago. Its pretty much a port of GTA3 to the Vice City engine. Works quite well, just a few things missing.

The idea of reinstalling GTA3 would bring back some awesome memories, I'll have to delete some of my porn though.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 05:54:16 PM
Funny, I thought VC's city was more interesting in a lot of regards.  I find GTA 3's city exceedingly boring, despite the fact that I love the game.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 06:03:59 PM
Maybe I should be more clear.  I agree, VC's city was more interesting than GTA3's in terms of sightseeing and exploration.  But GTA3's city is a lot more fun to drive around recklessly in.  Vice City's streets were all very short, had sharp corners, were two lanes, were narrow, were laced with all kinds of hazards right next to the road, or all of the previous at once.  Meanwhile you could easily get up to full speed in the Barracks OL in GTAIII and maintain it for a great length of time.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 06:41:38 PM
GTA2 was my favourite in the series since it was the first GTA I played, but Vice City would be next. The world was so much more interesting than Liberty City, and I didn't mind all the turns in the road. It wasn't so curvy that the driving was frustrating, it was just curvy enough to make the chases more interesting. I don't see the appeal of lots of long stretches of straight-away.

San Andreas I never got into. I couldn't get passed the gangster thing and gave up early in the game.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 07:01:44 PM
SA is by far my favorite in terms of gameplay, though the original game is probably next in line.  And don't get me wrong, I loathe upon loathe the gangster thing in SA, but the free roaming stuff and ability to buy lots of shit was just awesome.  Cities weren't perfect, but they were pretty damned good.

My problem with all the GTA games at this point is I want more to do than just drive, kill people, and buy stuff.  I mean, it isn't like the games would work as an RPG, but they need to put in more stuff to find that encourages exploration, some more interactive elements, and lots more random minigames that you can do over and over again to try and get a better score or unlock stuff or something.  The plots and all that don't mean jack shit to me, so that doesn't help.  With GTA I just want more places to go with more things to see, and the games give me that by progressing the plot... but it's just a device to me, not an end at all.  But now that the rest of the stuff is wearing thin... I need more meat on the rest of the bones before I'm going to care about another game.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 07:23:40 PM
Yeah, finding some of the hidden stuff is one of the coolest parts of the game.  Like when you get into a specific van you do an RC car bomb mission, or an RC plane mission.  That stuff is awesome.

I liked GTASA.  I wasn't a huge fan of the gangsta thing, but I could get past it.  It was filled with things to do and see, but I really hated going between the major city areas, especially from the upper left one to the lower right one.  It took forever.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Jedi on Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 08:03:33 PM
I wasn't too bothered about the gangsta theme but I hated how the mission structure would force you into buying that airport then you had to learn to fly - which I found bloody hard to do.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 08:21:50 PM
Thats exactly when I quit the game. The airport should have been a side mission or something. Nope, main story, required to continue. I had a hell of a time trying to fly the plane, I gave up in frustration. Which sucks because I wanted to do missions in the Vegas area.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 09:07:16 PM
I've liked every GTA game I've played (I think the only ones I fully missed out on were London and II), but for whatever reason I can never finish them.  I don't get very far into them before I just stop playing for whatever reason.  They're still enjoyable, but start to seem more and more like work after the first few hours to me.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Wednesday, March 28, 2007, 12:35:41 AM
I wasn't too bothered about the gangsta theme but I hated how the mission structure would force you into buying that airport then you had to learn to fly - which I found bloody hard to do.

hahaha I HATED THAT. I almost quit the game because of it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: iPPi on Wednesday, March 28, 2007, 11:42:07 AM
I did not get far in SA.  I think I only did like a handful of missions and then I stopped playing it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cools on Thursday, March 29, 2007, 04:33:35 PM
Trailer (http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/trailer_splash.html)

Looks like it's back in modern Liberty City. Well New York. :P
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Thursday, March 29, 2007, 04:43:02 PM
October 16 of this year? You gotta give Rockstar credit for consistantly waiting to show off their products until they're really not too far off. They've always waited to show them so that you can actively wait for the game without burning yourself out.

And dude, do you get to be that Russian guy speaking? I'm down with that. Not all of us are as lucky to have Cool's lineage.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: nickclone on Thursday, March 29, 2007, 04:44:12 PM
Trailer (http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/trailer_splash.html)

Looks like it's back in modern Liberty City. Well New York. :P

That really disappoints me, how many times are they going to go back to New York? Even though it was just a rumor, I was digging the Tokyo location.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, March 29, 2007, 04:52:16 PM
October 16 of this year? You gotta give Rockstar credit for consistantly waiting to show off their products until they're really not too far off. They've always waited to show them so that you can actively wait for the game without burning yourself out.
Sooner it gets out for consoles, sooner I can be ready for GTA 4 PC!!!

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And dude, do you get to be that Russian guy speaking? I'm down with that. Not all of us are as lucky to have Cool's lineage.
I hope we get to play as the Russian guy -- that'd be damn cool, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Jedi on Thursday, March 29, 2007, 05:02:05 PM
October 16 of this year? You gotta give Rockstar credit for consistantly waiting to show off their products until they're really not too far off. They've always waited to show them so that you can actively wait for the game without burning yourself out.

And dude, do you get to be that Russian guy speaking? I'm down with that. Not all of us are as lucky to have Cool's lineage.

Agreed.

That looks really sweet like a proper upgrade in the visuals and everything. Can't wait!
Well hopefully there'll be a few previews shortly so that we can get a feel for what's happening in the game features and story etc.

Did anyone elese notice the building with the logo "Get-a-life" funny.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, March 29, 2007, 05:34:19 PM
Did anyone elese notice the building with the logo "Get-a-life" funny.

Yep, hehe.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Friday, March 30, 2007, 03:01:26 PM
I found this kind of funny

CVG reviewed (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=161126) the GTAIV trailer.
Shacknews reviewed (http://www.shacknews.com/extras/2007/033007_cvg_gta4_1.x) the CVG review of the GTAIV trailer.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, May 24, 2007, 02:33:09 PM
New info from GameSpot on this one (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/grandtheftauto4/news.html?sid=6171459&tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot)

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Grand Theft Auto IV First Look
We sneak a look at the next much-anticipated entry in Rockstar's GTA series.
By Ricardo Torres, GameSpot
Posted May 24, 2007 10:24 am PT

You'd be hard pressed to find a more anticipated, or scrutinized title than Rockstar's upcoming Grand Theft Auto IV. The release of the game's trailer in March saw the fifty odd seconds of teaser footage scrutinized like evidence in a CSI episode with fans (ourselves included) rabidly dissecting it frame by frame. To further stoke the fires of anticipation, Rockstar Games recently hit town and did the previously unthinkable: they gave us a look at a work in progress version of the Xbox 360 game. Whereas years past have seen us getting access to GTA games when they were much farther along in development, Rockstar, confident in how development is going, actually raised the kilt and let us get a look at GTA IV months before it hits. Our guided demo of the title showed off a tiny bit of the city and gave us a taste of what Rockstar is cooking up for what is arguably the most anticipated game of 2007.
Okay.

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The demo opened up with the game's Russian hero Niko Bellic standing in a building, the offices of the taxi service to be exact. As our demoer guided him around the interior we were given a rundown of his story. The eastern European immigrant will come to Liberty City at the request of his cousin, Roman. The trip seems like a smart move for Niko who's had a rather rough life so far. The picture of life in Liberty City painted by his cousin is that of an opulent life with easy money. Upon arriving Niko gets a reality check. Roman is living around the poverty line and drives a cab. Once that realization hits, Niko realizes he's got to find a way to eke out a living, which is where the story begins. Given what was shown and implied in the trailer we expect Niko's career search to take some interesting, and probably violent turns. Rockstar reps noted that Niko's path through the game isn't going to tell a stereotypical "rags to riches" story but will instead offer a grittier tale that's about survival, "rags to slightly better rags" to be exact.
Okay then.

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Once we got the rundown of the story our demoer took Niko out for a stroll in the city. As the tour started we got another quick primer on the city. The Liberty City in GTA IV is a modern day metropolis that's a bit different than the one we know. The city is obviously based on New York, though there's no version of Staten Island in the game. For fans at home already working on their maps, the borough of Broker is based on Brooklyn, Dukes is based on Queens, Bohan is based on The Bronx, Algonquin is based on Manhattan, and Alderney is based on New Jersey. Our tour took us on a run through some of the neighborhoods in Broker, underneath the Algonquin bridge overpass and eventually out to the docks to look out on the city proper. The environment had a lived-in look that featured pedestrians, homeless, trash, steaming manholes, traffic, and an impressive array of little touches used to set the scene. But, while we expected all that, the demo showed off a new wrinkle to the densely packed environments: height. Though "verticality" has turned into one of the newest buzz words for new games, it's still an interesting feature to see. From the sound of it, GTA IV is going to let you go up or down buildings in the game as needed. Our demo simply showed Niko climb a power pole and have a look around at the environment- highlighting the impressive draw distance. But we also noticed that the dense city environment, which is roughly the same size as San Andreas, will be a layered locale with things to see and do at different heights. If it works the way we're hoping, it might offer some additional options when avoiding the police.
"Verticality", eh?
That's interesting.

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But avoiding police, like much of GTA IV's gameplay is something that Rockstar wasn't going into too much detail on. There was no talk of the upcoming downloadable content or exclusive material for the PlayStation or Xbox 360. What was shared was that the role-playing elements are being dialed back so Niko won't be morphing into a superman by the end of the game.
Hmmm....not sure if this is a good idea or not.
What do y'all think....?

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Car jacking is being tweaked, so you can now break windows and jack parked cars. You'll be able to call people via cell phone and help move the story along, offering you more control over how the story will progress. Though you won't be able to fly planes, you should be able to fly helicopters. One of our big questions, what kind of online multiplayer the game will offer, was just met with a coy assertion that the team wants the multiplayer to rival the single player experience. Reps did note that it will not be an MMO-style persistent city. Other details, such as the game's HUD, are still being ironed out. We did see a menu system that had all the expected options, we're just curious as to how it will be implemented. The driving force behind the game is its story according to the team. So, to that end, the gameplay experience must be seamless. We're pleased to see the lengths they're going to make this happen already. Moving in and out of buildings is seamless and you'll have ample places to go in and out of though not every building in the game is explorable.
Okie dokie.

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The visuals in the game come courtesy of Rockstar's proprietary RAGE engine and offer a comfortable compliment to the game's new look. The city area we were shown had all the real world elements that are key to a GTA game's atmosphere: pedestrians, traffic, and a lived-in look. The key difference, as you can see in the trailer, is the level of detail and the art style. The expected bump in graphics seems to be agreeing with the team's ambitious tendencies, resulting in a dense city with rich lighting populated by a diverse group of people. The little touches that were wrung out of the last generation of hardware are now fully realized with proper lighting, particle effects, and shadowing being used to highlight the distressed city streets, old buildings, dusty windows, and vast panoramic views of Liberty City.
Sweet.

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As for the residents, our tour of the city gave us a look at a sampling of some work-in-progress models that are set to be used for the non-player characters you'll meet. The models sported a higher level of detail, obviously, and looked good, albeit nondescript like any good NPC. Niko is obviously the star of the game, with a character model that reflects his mental baggage. The detailed model has a decidedly gritty look that makes it pretty clear he's been around the block a few times, maybe even hit by some cars. Animation was early but seemed to be coming along fine. His gait when walking was deliberate and was on its way towards adding to his world weary vibe. Our demo also focused on showcasing a number of subtle touches being worked into GTA IV. The standouts were Niko leaning in a direction as he runs and, most awesomely, his breaking windows on parked cars so he could jack them. Though we just saw a small slice of what to expect from the game's visuals we have to say we're impressed by the restraint we're seeing. In a time when so many games on PS3 and Xbox 360 are going all out with the special effects and a generally glossy look, GTA IV seems to be drawing on the effects and tech it needs to establish a convincingly rundown look. While it may not bowl you over with blinding use of light blooming and other stereotypical "next-gen" effects, although we've seen most of them used in subtle ways, the game is focused on its realistic look and we're pleased by what we're seeing.
Okay.

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Audio was far from finished as Rockstar reps were quick to point out what we heard in the demo was very placeholder, with a fraction of the audio that will be in the final game peppered through it. It seems as though the plan is to expand on the concepts used in the previous games so you'll hear tons of ambient chatter, and city sounds designed to sell you on the game's virtual world. Finer elements such as voice acting and the ever popular radio stations are still being ironed out. The team is still mulling over the direction of where to go with the radio stations, given the tone of the game. There will still be plenty of variety in music, but what it is remains to be seen. The voice acting in the game is in a similar state of reevaluation. The team is thinking on what would best serve the story in terms of the talent used and the direction. As with the previous entries in the series, Rockstar is competing with the standards set by GTA IV's predecessors which all featured great voice acting. As it stood, what we heard of the audio was coming along fine and, finished or not, we liked where it was headed.
Cool beans.

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Ultimately our demo of the game was a pretty controlled experience and was more about showing off the world and the possibilities of what could be done inside it than showing off specific gameplay features. That said, even this modest look at a fraction of the city shows a whole lot of potential. The nuanced story, greater interactivity with the world, a densely packed, vertical environment, an ambitious scope, and even more freedom seem like the right ingredients to have in play for such an anticipated sequel. Factor in the mysterious online multiplayer and downloadable content and you have about as fully loaded a sequel as you could ask for. Grand Theft Auto IV is currently slated to ship this October for the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. Look for more on the game in the coming months.
I wonder when the PC will gets its port of this thing.
I know I'll be lookin' forward to the PC edition of this one.

And yeah, I need to go work on GTA: SA, eh? hehe.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Jedi on Thursday, May 24, 2007, 10:42:05 PM
IGN has a few more screen shots (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/827/827005/imgs_1.html) and articles... I'm actually really looking forward to this game now, can't wait to see the city form myself!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, May 25, 2007, 02:11:23 PM
I read the IGN preview and seems the game is shaping up nicely. I really am pleased they are going for a realistic approach.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, May 25, 2007, 06:46:36 PM
For me it's really going to depend on how they evolve it.  I just plain need more to the city this time.  Big is one thing, but I need more detail.  I need to explore more.  That's the single reason I play these games is because I get a huge city to explore, but after several 3D iterations it's become apparent to me that there's just no longer much interesting stuff to find.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, May 26, 2007, 12:21:23 AM
I loved San Andreas more than any other GTA -- except for that stupid plane mission. It was average at first, but then when you get out of the first area you realize how huge the city is. The best memories I have of the game are driving on the highway, listening to the music and admiring the countryside. Yea it is a little weird that that is what I admired about the game, but it did for me what Test Drive did for Cobra.

I thought GTA3 was overrated, mainly because of the horrible porting and the fact that the game was basically like its predecessor except in 3D. I thought it lacked substance personally.

I really loved Vice City for the theme, but it did frustrate me. I also liked the storyline.

But I found San Andreas to be my favorite, purely because of the scale. I just think, as Que says, the cities need to be a lot more fleshed out from the inside. It needs to start feeling like a modern version of Elder Scrolls. Not just clones walking the streets, but actual people with problems that you could help with.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Saturday, May 26, 2007, 07:44:21 AM
Yeah, that is a bit of a problem with the GTA games.  There are lots of streets and ramps and buildings and things like that, but there are hardly any indoor areas and those that are there are extremely sparse.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: beo on Saturday, May 26, 2007, 08:01:28 AM
It needs to start feeling like a modern version of Elder Scrolls. Not just clones walking the streets, but actual people with problems that you could help with.

i completely agree. although i don't think that's what we'll get, as given the scale of san andreas, it would be an utterly mammoth undertaking. for the game to feel like a true step up in terms of gameplay, i think that's the next level of interaction that they need to tackle.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, June 06, 2007, 02:49:16 PM
In a related GTA note....
GTA III makes GameSpot's "Greatest Games Of All Time" List (http://www.gamespot.com/features/6171873/index.html)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: beo on Thursday, June 28, 2007, 03:26:02 PM
new trailer...

low res: http://rsgames.vo.llnwd.net/o10/files/flies/trailer2/640x360.wmv

high res: http://rsgames.vo.llnwd.net/o10/files/flies/trailer2/1280x720.wmv
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 03, 2007, 01:53:37 PM
GTA4 has been Delayed until Fiscal 2008 (http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=080307_6)

Quote
GTA IV Delayed Until 2008
 [Ure "Vader" Paul] 02:34 am EDT @ August 03rd, 2007
Take-Two confirmed that Grand Theft Auto IV, the next installment in Rockstar's popular and highly controversial series, has been pushed back from its original October 2007 release date into fiscal 2008.

Apparently, the "delay was essential to ensure the quality of GTA IV."

They also added: "We owe it to our millions of fans, to our dedicated development team, and to our shareholders to make sure that Grand Theft Auto IV is a groundbreaking gaming experience and is an experience that takes maximum advantage of next-generation technology."

Okay, so this game will probably be out by the time you've finished playing BioShock, Crysis, Mass Effect and Halo 3. So, it's okay, don't sweat it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Friday, August 03, 2007, 04:20:03 PM
I didn't realize Bioshock, Crysis, and Mass Effect were that close to release.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 03, 2007, 04:41:53 PM
I didn't realize Bioshock, Crysis, and Mass Effect were that close to release.

They're all due in Summer - Dec. 2007.

I think Bioshock's due out sometime later in August.
Crysis is planned for November 2007.
Mass Effect is also planned for November 2007.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 03, 2007, 06:37:07 PM
I'm so not ready for Bioshock, though I'm totally so ready for it.  It's just coming too soon!  I'll have to take some time off work or something, heh.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 01:47:16 PM
GTA4 will also ship with a Multiplayer Component (http://kotaku.com/gaming/neat/gta-iv-to-support-16+person-multiplayer-311429.php)


Quote
GTA is not a series known for its multiplayer, having ditched the premise after GTA II, but it looks like Rockstar is giving it another go. According to GamingExcellence, the company said at a Sony event that they are aiming for 16-person multiplayer that's richer than simple deathmatch gameplay (here's hoping for a hot coffee mode at Starbucks). We assume that this mode will apply to both 360 and PS3 versions of the game.

Another interesting tidbit? The entire world may be unlocked from the start. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Will gamers lose incentive to keep playing? Thoughts?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 23, 2007, 08:39:31 AM
Hmmmm...I guess Rockstar wasn't too pleased about the next upcoming Simpsons GTA-style game. (http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=102307_3)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, March 30, 2008, 06:31:57 AM
Newest Trailer for GTA4.

Dated for April 29th, 2008. (http://www.gamespot.com/video/933037/6188467/videoplayerpop?)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Monday, April 14, 2008, 07:57:48 PM
So, is there any word on a PC version yet?  I want to sell my Xbox 360, but this game is holding that up.  If it comes out on PC, I'll sell it but I don't think this is a game I can miss.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, April 14, 2008, 08:46:07 PM
Every other GTA has had a PC port, I don't see why this would be any different.  I'll likely get it on PS3 as I've had miserable experiences with GTA on PC in the past.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 12:25:30 PM
Yeah but the PC ports always take another 6 months after the console version before they are released.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 12:37:25 PM
I don't care when it comes out.  I just want to make sure I have something that can play it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 04:42:02 PM
Really long interview w/ Sam Houser of Rockstar about all kinds of things -- such as GTA4, Hot Coffee, X360 needs more disc space to it, etc etc. (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3167500)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, April 24, 2008, 07:27:43 AM
Well, I preordered.  My store is having a midnight sale, too, but I don't know if I care about going.  It's on Monday fucking night, so what good does it do me?  I'll get a half hour to play it before I have to go to bed so I can get up at 6.  If it was a Friday night or something, that'd be different.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: iPPi on Thursday, April 24, 2008, 12:23:34 PM
I really didn't follow this game at all since I wasn't impressed with San Andreas, but I've started reading up on the characters and the city, and I can say that this game looks amazing.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, April 24, 2008, 01:11:32 PM
I can't buy stuff now as readily as I could last year, but this is one game I'm expecting to pick up.  No preorder or anything, just whenever it becomes generally available (after whatever feeding frenzy is coming).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Thursday, April 24, 2008, 07:02:21 PM
I'm with Cobra.  While GTAIII amazed me and I had a lot of fun with GTA:VC, my interest had been waning ever since III.  But there's no way I'm missing this one.  I don't need it the first day though.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, April 24, 2008, 07:36:35 PM
I was entirely disinterested until I heard some just awesome sounding stuff about what they wanted to do with this one, and the level of detail seems to be what I always wished it would be.  There were some just great stories on various podcasts from guys who got the chance to give it a spin, and I'm really excited to see how much more real and detailed the city will seem.  Plus the plot sounds an awful lot better than the past games, with an actual likable character who isn't strictly a criminal, or at least not from what I gather.  More like a guy thrown into the deep end of the pool who isn't sure what the best way to keep afloat is gonna' be.

Either way, I'm really curious, and I could use a new city to explore.  It's been long enough since SA, and by that point the cities just weren't quite detailed enough for me (the little areas to explore around the landscape were awesome, but I'm talking more about adding some interiors, giving each area of the town a sense of identity, etc.).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, April 25, 2008, 06:04:22 PM
PERFECT TEN score from IGN for X360 and PS3 (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/869/869381p1.html)

Side Note: This is the first TEN that IGN has given out since Soul Calibur in 1999.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, April 25, 2008, 06:15:29 PM
The very first sentence of that review is a spoiler.  That has to be a record.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, April 25, 2008, 08:09:21 PM
I don't know that it's *really* a spoiler.  Only if you're really, really anal about your spoilers.  That's kind of part of the news that had me excited about the game in the first place instead of just yawning and saying, "Oh good, another GTA".

Anyway, the brief bit I read there is more than a little encouraging.  I'll have to read the rest later when I have an actual moment.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, April 25, 2008, 08:19:38 PM
From IGN, some worthwhile tidbit for me to quote...

Quote from: IGN
As an added twist, GTA IV gives you occasional morality choices. There are people that you don't have to kill in a mission and you can decide whether or not to waste a bullet. These events don't change the plot or open new missions later on. Occasionally it affects dialogue, but more often it is simply the game asking what kind of person you are. And there are some gut-wrenching decisions you make at points that create an emotional response I never imagined I would get from a Grand Theft Auto title. There is one significant choice you make towards the end of the game that opens a new path and an alternate ending. There are two worthwhile endings to uncover and are incentive for playing through a second time just to see how much more depressing life in Liberty City can get.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Saturday, April 26, 2008, 09:03:25 AM
This is the game that's pushing me over the edge and forcing me to buy a 360
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, April 26, 2008, 09:04:41 AM
The video review was quite impressive.  The guy says right off the bat that it's the best game he's played in 10 years, and ends saying it's one of the best games he's ever played and an easy contender for GOTY.  I haven't watched much video, just seen some screens, and I have to say that the thing looks just stunning in motion.  Obviously it looks better than past games for the simple fact that it's next gen hardware, but I'd say that the game is much more graphically impressive for its current timeframe than any past GTA game was for its current timeframe.  The multiplayer even sounds like a blast, which is kind of a surprise to me and I still wonder if it's really as good as he says, but just the few clips they showed and stuff do make it look awfully fun.

I'm really looking forward to this.  Will be very curious to see just how much the series has evolved, and especially curious about some of the adult stuff that's in this one.  You know me, I'm far from the kind of guy who likes to see a bunch of sex shoved into his games, but there's something more striking and honest about the portrayal here than I was expecting, just from the few clips I've watched and stuff.  I'm really looking forward to seeing more interior stuff, too, and a better city AI, both of which will help things to feel a lot more real.  GTA was somewhat immersive for me anyway, but I get the feeling this is going to be a whole different ball of wax.  Really looking forward to it, and almost wish I'd sprung for the CE.  I just got the regular PS3 version.  Wonder if I could change my order today.

EDIT - Jeez, check out metacritic (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/grandtheftauto4?q=grand%20theft%20auto).  So far the game's got 3 100s and a 98.  That's almost ridiculous.

Quote
* Utterly stunning in every resepct. [May 2008, p.79]
 * I could go on and on about why Grand Theft Auto IV is one of the best games we've ever seen and why even folks who are easily offended should play it, but that would be pointless. The only thing you need to know is that you have to play this game. Period.
 * Expectations were so high for Grand Theft Auto IV that one of the biggest surprises is that it's managed to meet them. That it's also gone on to confound these is truly a marvel, and the game's Liberty City is nothing less than one of the greatest videogame worlds yet conceived.
 * Rockstar have surpassed themselves, delivering unquestionably the definitive GTA and perhaps the greatest videogame of all time. [June 2008]

If this keeps up, this is going to sell hardware by the truckloads.  I can think of a number of people who haven't yet made the jump to a PS3 or 360 who are probably going to seriously consider it now.

Sy, you can come to my house and play it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Saturday, April 26, 2008, 09:45:12 AM
I watched the review and almost started looking at HDTV prices the second after (with the thought that I'd be a HDTV and a PS3). Thankfully I had Warhammer stuff to distract me long enough, but I'm tempted pretty much every time I go online.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ScaryTooth on Saturday, April 26, 2008, 11:09:07 AM
I am so excited about this damn game. Can't wait to play it. As soon as I get off Tuesday I'm picking it up
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, April 26, 2008, 12:21:43 PM
What finally sold me was the HD trailer I downloaded on the Xbox 360 itself.  That took me where all these compressed youtube-quality clips I've been seeing never would have.  I got to see gameplay footage as it will look on the 360 at 720p.  Add that to the general praise, and the debate ends.  Rockstar wins.

Edit:
(http://www.metacritic.com/_images/scores/games/100.gif)
That's the first time I see that at Metacritic (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/grandtheftauto4).  It's only 4 reviews so far, 3 at 100% and one 98%.  It will drop from there, I'm sure.  But still, something new for the moment.

Edit 2:  I missed Que's edit above.  I watched the IGN video review as well.  I also read both the American and UK IGN reviews.  To see a better way to refer to the story without giving away particulars, see Page 3 of the UK review (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/869/869485p3.html).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, April 26, 2008, 02:20:13 PM
I am really looking forward to GTA4, when it comes to the PC. I think it will, in due time.

But, I tell you -- that IGN video review of GTA4 X360/PS3 was pretty good. We all can assume the SP will turn out great, since I don't think any of the GTA's since GTA3 been "eh" on the SP's; they all been at the worst good SP campaigns.

I think the GTA4 Multi-player sounds like it'll be a blast, since it won't be just a small map; it'll be the whole gameworld and you can get 16 players w/ you going nuts on each other doing whatever in this ridiculously sized world. That just sounds awesome. And it sounds like they packed a cool amount of different gamemodes for it, too.

Let me think further on MP, since that is what PC does normally better than consoles. GTA4 MP just sounds like something on the PC, gamers could go really nuts with -- especially if a PC version could allow for over 16 players; like maybe 32 or 64. That'd be crazy.

Are there going to be some DLC's for GTA4 on the consoles? DLC is the rage for some reason, so I'm betting there probably will be.

EDIT:
Hehe, looks like Microsoft is gonna (at the very least) X-Box Live ban those who played the leak of GTA4 X360 before its release, since some people are already stating they have it and all on message boards online. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3167574)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 09:45:36 AM
Holy sheepshit.

GameTrailers (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33326.html) has an excellent, 11-minute long video review up that encompasses virtually everything you could want to know, levels a few of their usual cynical criticisms throughout, and ultimately give the game a 9.8.  And if you check out MetaCritic (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/grandtheftauto4?q=grand%20theft%20auto), you'll note that the 100s the game has received have grown to 7 from 3.  That's 4 more overnight.  9 reviews with an average metascore of 100?  Critics sure love this one.  And from the extended gameplay you get to watch in the GT video, it's not hard to see why.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 12:25:45 PM
Holy crapski.  That was awesome.  Man.  I'm salivating for this thing now.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 12:28:48 PM
I wanted to pick up the SE of this just for the hell of it since it seems it's going to be such a milestone (and since I don't think a GTA game has ever had one before, have they?), but they stopped selling the preorders.  I'm going to hit the midnight launch to see if I can grab an extra if there are any, but I suspect it'll be too busy for that to happen.  Should have jumped on it when I had the chance, but... eh.  Hindsight.

EDIT - 9 or 10 100s at MC now, with another 97 and 95 thrown in for the 360 and PS3 versions.  Yeesh.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 04:22:27 PM
1Up's Review
A+ from 1Up (http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3167589&p=4)

I'm watching the Vid Review on 1Up, and it's really interesting that you can actually go on bowling, play pool, throw darts, go to the Net Cafe to browse (Rockstar's) Internet, watch TV programming,etc etc.

EDIT:
More Reviews
PERFECT 10 from EuroGamer for X360 Version (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=134493)
Another TEN, but from TeamXbox (http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1501/Grand-Theft-Auto-IV/p1/)
10 from GameDaily (http://www.gamedaily.com/games/grand-theft-auto-iv/xbox-360/game-reviews/review/5925/2017/)
10 from GameInformer (http://gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/630B1519-0D36-4DF4-B103-E2C92A152A98.htm)
GamePro delivers their review (http://www.gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/reviews/180448.shtml)
9.5 from CVG for X360 Version (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=187732)

GameSpy's Revew
PERFECT 5 stars from GameSpy for X360 Version (http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/grand-theft-auto-4/869689p1.html)
Quote from: GameSpy
The ability to take taxi cabs everywhere might be the most important innovation of all, as it drastically cuts down on the amount of time you'll have to spend driving from one area to another.
Oh, there's fast-traveling in GTA4! Nice!
That's one feature that I wish GTA: SA had, actually.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 04:55:28 PM
Heh, damn.  Crazy stuff.

I'd like to point out that I only just now found out the 360 is the only console getting DLC, and that's fucking stupid bullshit.  Why the fuck are you giving DLC to the console that doesn't have a standard hard drive and avoiding giving it to the console that has one equipped no matter who you are?  Rockstar, for that you can take a nosedive into a pile of horseshit.  I'm sorry, but that pisses me off.  There's no reason for that.  Just because I want to buy the game on a console that isn't going to explode in 6 months I get penalized?  Kiss my ass.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 04:57:46 PM
That seems silly that only the 360 Version's getting DLC Stuff.

Does the PS3 have a good amount of DLC stuff for new games these days, Que?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 05:04:16 PM
Quite a lot.  The only reason I can see for this is Microsoft paying for exclusivity.  I obviously don't have the first clue if that's the case, but I can't see any other reason barring some technical limitation, almost any of which I will immediately call bullshit without some pretty sincerely convincing evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 05:10:10 PM
Quite a lot.
Well, that's crappy then.

Quote
The only reason I can see for this is Microsoft paying for exclusivity.
That would not surprise me.

Quote
I obviously don't have the first clue if that's the case, but I can't see any other reason barring some technical limitation, almost any of which I will immediately call bullshit without some pretty sincerely convincing evidence to the contrary.
The PS3 might be tough to work around b/c of its hardware and its structure, but I very highly doubt it's *that* tough to add new DLC Content for; especially since everybody has a HD on the PS3.

And if there's a lot of DLC Content, yeah -- something's up. If I recall, I don't think BethSoft released any of The DLC Content for Oblivion PS3....Oblivion PS3 came w/ KOTN, but I don't think it came w/ Shivering Isles or any of The DLC Stuff that came out after Shivering Isles. I'm not 100% sure, so if you do know, please correct me if I'm wrong...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 05:26:29 PM
You're wrong.  Shivering Isles was released for PS3 as a standalone download on PSN, and it was included as part of the GOTY edition of the game if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 05:42:27 PM
You're wrong.  Shivering Isles was released for PS3 as a standalone download on PSN, and it was included as part of the GOTY edition of the game if I'm not mistaken.
Thanks for the correction, bro.
I'm glad BethSoft didn't leave PS3 gamers behind on the extra content.

I hope Rockstar don't leave PS3 gamers out on the GTA4 DLC extras, either.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: beo on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 06:14:16 PM
i really wouldn't be surprised if the DLC is a timed exclusive only. also, i'm sure i remember hearing something about separate exclusive downloads available for each console down the line - that was quite a while ago though, so there's every chance my mind is playing tricks on me.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 10:10:47 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if it's a timed thing either.  Still, I hate it when they gimp stuff like that.

Anyway... coolest TV spot ever (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33175.html).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 10:29:24 PM
Ah!  There it is.  I had seen it, and then couldn't find it again.  That is a slick commercial.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 10:31:33 PM
Also, I plan to watch the full 720P GameTrailers review on my PS3 and 720P HDTV since I found this little gem (http://www.di.co.nz/PSMediaTunnel/index.htm).  Works brilliantly.  Using it right now to transfer the file over from my PC.  Ain't technology grand?

EDIT - Hell, that was just beautiful.  I have to stop torturing myself like this.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, April 27, 2008, 11:49:14 PM
Yeah, I watched the gametrailer.com review.  Off the hook.  I've never actually finished a GTA game, but I'll have to check this out when I get a ps3 or it hits the PC.  I also need to get back into San Andreas.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Monday, April 28, 2008, 12:19:30 AM
Just paid off the LE edition this afternoon.  Looks pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, April 28, 2008, 12:24:20 AM
I ended up going for the SE also, but instead of risking not getting one or having to pay for it on ebay, I just ordered it online from somewhere still taking preorders.  Hooray!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Monday, April 28, 2008, 01:22:49 AM
I believe that if you pre-order off of Amazon it comes with a GTA IV vanity plate also.  So, that's something to think about if you didn't get it off Amazon. 

In the meantime, I'll keep myself occupied with Mario Kart and Okami....
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Monday, April 28, 2008, 02:20:35 AM
Yea I checked out the gametrailers review... fucking hell, I want this game now. Im probably just going to grab the regular version, LEs are too expensive for me. I wish some of you were going to get the 360 version, I would love to play online with you guys.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: poomcgoo on Monday, April 28, 2008, 04:48:35 AM
Ill be getting the 360 version once my damn console comes back working.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Monday, April 28, 2008, 05:55:47 AM
I would like to play with you guys too, but I have trouble paying for XBL when PS3 and Wii owners (kinda) get online multiplayer for free.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, April 28, 2008, 07:09:51 AM
Yeah, same here.  I'll never pay for Live.  That said, I'm sure a lot of people will be getting the 360 version, so you'll have folks to play with, Pyro.  I'm just glad to know that for once I'll have people to play with, too!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Monday, April 28, 2008, 09:24:39 AM
Well I called up the gamecrazy here in town and they told me they had some reserve spots left for the 360 game, so I drove over there and got one. Looks like tonight is going to be spent in Liberty City, Im rather excited now.

Oh hey poom, do I have your gamertag? Mine is PyroMenace, we'll have to play when you grab it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, April 28, 2008, 02:43:15 PM
$90 for the LE/SE?  No thank you.  Even if I had money to burn, no thank you.  The normal edition will do just fine.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, April 28, 2008, 02:44:08 PM
More X360 Version Reviews
10 from VideoGamer (http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/grand_theft_auto_4/review.html)
A+ from Ugo (http://www.ugo.com/ugo/html/article/?id=18502&sponsor=gta&sectionid=51)
9.7 from ActionTrip (http://www.actiontrip.com/reviews/360/grandtheftautoiv.phtml)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ScaryTooth on Monday, April 28, 2008, 08:42:49 PM
Gamespot just gave it a 10. (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/grandtheftauto4/review.html?tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, April 28, 2008, 08:43:25 PM
Gamespot just gave it a 10. (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/grandtheftauto4/review.html?tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot)

Damn, just beat me to it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, April 28, 2008, 10:28:06 PM
Uh-oh, this is awkward.  Um, D...the door is over there.  We found a replacement and don't need you anymore.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Monday, April 28, 2008, 10:31:20 PM
Yikes.....

gpw I don't think you realize what you are getting yourself into. You're in for a world of pain.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Monday, April 28, 2008, 11:06:32 PM
Gamespot just gave it a 10. (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/grandtheftauto4/review.html?tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot)
How can it get a 10 if it has some stuff (minor as it is) listed in "The Bad?" It should be like a 9.9 or something.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, April 28, 2008, 11:33:42 PM
Because it's just sort of a general scale and scores are, ultimately, completely meaningless?

EDIT - The news likes GTA4 (http://www.komotv.com/news/18338409.html)?  Well, maybe not, but Ken Schram does.  Or at least he wishes everyone else would just shut the fuck up about it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 12:30:33 AM
The problem with the number scale is that it eventually gets pegged at max by something that pushes the state of the art.  Then everything that comes after gets judged against it.  Older games which got perfect scores in their day wouldn't even come close to that now.  At least that's the way it seems to me.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 12:40:52 AM
Game reviews are just a weird anomaly, really.

Anyway, first reports of GTA4 freezes coming in.  Apparently some 360 users are experiencing it but the worst seems to be on PS3.  There's a chance that it's a shoddy batch of games that were shipped to Gamestop, but it looks most definitively like it's 60GB and 20GB launch PS3s getting the majority of the problems.  I think some non-launch 60s had freezes, but I haven't heard any word on any other models.  No clue about the 360 side as it doesn't seem quite as widespread.

Been checking out a lot of forums.  The results are hilarious.  Not so much for the freeze thing, but just the usual crap where people mouth off and get the console wars going and talk about how much they hate or love this or that.  Some pure gold over at GSpot.  I swear those people get more idiotic by the second.  If you need a good laugh, check it out.  My favorite thread is the one where a Serbian guy states that the main character is Serbian because guys in the game call he and his cousin Serbs and because the dude *speaks* Serbian at a few points.  Then another guy bitches that the main character's origins weren't revealed by Rockstar and nobody can know anything official, and the argument rages back and forth for a while.  High quality entertainment, and free!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 01:28:01 AM
The scale can be ambigious and it varies among reviewers i.e. an 8 on Gamespot is not eual to an 8 on IGN.

The parts I like most in reviews are the intro summaries (pros & cons) and the conclusion. For details I resort to the body of the review. The score is more of a broad guideline as to where the game fits among its peers.

Now I'm really looking forward to GTA4 (on PC of course)!

I wonder what sort of reaction JT will have!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 01:39:39 AM
The scores are ultimately for publicity anyways. They are meaningless without the actual review. They serve for word of mouth or to put on game boxes. That's why those average scores are ridiculous - two different scores can be based upon completely different criteria.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 02:20:15 AM
Haha imagine if we added a random criteria to the score like "Packaging" hehe

"The colour of the box is unappealing and they could have done a better job with the box art. The package materials are of low quality. The discs are in leaflets. Score: 3/10."
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 04:06:38 AM
Alright so I put a good amount of time into it and needless to say its a very well polished game. The city looks amazing, people walking up and down sidewalks look like they have more of a purpose, and night and day time distinguish themselves very well, as well as different areas of the city which incorporate different citizens walking about, for instance poorer areas will have more homeless people. There just numerous details to go on about.

The driving also feels much more realistic, meaning its a little more of a challenge weaving in and out of traffic as vehicles driving around the city go at more of a brisker pace. It makes chases more tense and risky. This also goes with gun shootouts. Though I havent had too many of those, the cover system does work, but the main skill involved is locking on and firing. 

So far overall, its definitely GTA3 at its foundation in every way possible. The new generation that the sequel brings is a more interactive and bustling city and a much greater level of detail and polish. I distracted myself a little bit with some of the mini games and little things you can check out in the city like bowling, pool, buying clothes, and checking out the theatre with a chick. You definitely feel like your becoming a part of the city. The story picks up a little slow, you begin doing small simple tasks but im at a point now where your finding more about your character Niko and his purpose so its getting more interesting. Its all done in the same vein at the previous games. Im definitely enjoying the crap out of this one.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 11:15:41 AM
The scores are ultimately for publicity anyways. They are meaningless without the actual review. They serve for word of mouth or to put on game boxes. That's why those average scores are ridiculous - two different scores can be based upon completely different criteria.

I don't think they're ridiculous.  If there are oblique motives for some of the scores, then the results are all over the map across reviews.  But when every review hovers around a certain mark, aside from some possible "me too" cases, they share a common push.  Also, everyone now knows that the scores are going to be converted to a percentage scale and averaged.  Even before that, the subjective scale has always tended to coincide with the traditional school grading system, where really only the top 40% or so matters.  Everything below that is too shitty to dwell on.  A 3/5 is bad.  A 6/10 is bad.  A 60 is bad.

How the scores are arrived at is another question.  If the process is bullshit, so is the score.  Hopefully, that all comes out in the wash with the metascores.  If not, well, why bother with the gaming press at all?  Let's just read the glossy ad copy and watch some videos to get a general idea.  We'll have to play the games to figure the rest out for ourselves.  If we have the money and the time, that's probably the best approach.  Else, we have to invest some trust in the press.

Thanks for the impressions, Pyro.  I didn't mean to leapfrog over your much more on-topic post.  :)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 12:17:18 PM
Woo!  Have GTA4, will travel.  Best Buy had them all over, in both flavors, for both consoles.  I briefly held the EE (Expensive Edition).  Big!  But no.  I paid my $60 and tax and came home.  Not even a line at the register.  I figured BB would have plenty of supply.  I was going to Circuit City and Gamestop next if they didn't.

So, that was painless.  Now to see what all the hype is about.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 01:41:34 PM
Hmmm... maybe I'll try to snag it after work.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 05:56:16 PM
Very cool.  Lots of detail.  They seem to be doing a distance blur thing, I'm guessing to keep the level of detail down enough for a reasonable frame rate, which seems to be in the 20-30 fps range, though I've seen it dip lower on occasion.  Burnout Paradise spoiled me with its rock-steady 60 fps and sharp visuals to the horizon, but I understand that there's a hell of a lot more happening here.  (For one thing, BP has no human beings at all, only vehicles.  No building interiors either.)  The world is very much alive.  Good job on that, and on keeping it all in motion.  I've seen absolutely no streaming freezes so far.  Details will pop into view now and then, but the flow is never interrupted.  So the visual tech is covered nicely.  Audio is what it should be, and that's really not hard to do anymore.  SFX are good.  Speech is good, both for important scenes and the random street chatter.  Voice acting is good.  Vibration is very sparse, tough, at least during driving.  Again, I have to compare to BP, with its terrific road feel through the rumble feature.  That's completely absent here.  In fact, the only vibration I clearly felt was during thunderclaps in a rainstorm.  This aspect feels oddly incomplete.

Car handling is very manageable.  Analog throttle and brake, properly placed on the triggers.  Brakes are much more realistic than usual in a game, and they behave very differently between the POS you drive first and a BMW clone.  Steering response is spot-on, though all cars I've driven so far will understeer heavily after they start to skid.  The only good performance-driving view is the hood one.  All others are too detached from the car.  Unfortunately, the hood view has too much vertical bob, and it will drive your eyes batty after a while.  So I end up switching to a close behind view for cruising, and back to the hood for chases.

I've spent much less time on foot.  I always end up driving a lot in GTA games, and so far this is no exception.  The walking/running control feels like it has too much inertia.  Changing direction takes more effort than I'm accustomed to in 3rd-person game with dual-stick control.  I need much more practice.  I failed a mission once and almost failed it again, because I fell off the same ledge twice while chasing someone on foot.  Niko would not make the turn as quickly as I expected.  Also, in order to run, you have to press A, which means you can't use the right stick to help you steer.  A shoulder button would have made more sense.  Some speed control on the left stick also would have made better sense.  (There's none.)

So far I've played 3 games, bowling, pool and this 3D block arcade game (which is sort of fun--high score so far 8950).  Nicely done as extra activities, but Nintendo doesn't have to worry about bowling stealing away Wii Sports players.

What else?  There's waypoints and GPS, including a synthetic voice to tell you when to turn.  Saves work the same as San Andreas, where you go to your safe house and sleep for 6 hours.  There's a night/day cycle.  You eat fast food to regain health, but so far I haven't seen health decrease because of no eating.  Oh, and the music/radio is once again very nicely done, with good stuff to listen to, and enough options to avoid the few stinkers.  Good humor in the commercials and "news", which has been carried over to a couple of TV channels in the house.

So far, I'm loving it, nitpicking aside.  I'm taking a break now, and will dive back in later tonight.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 06:02:25 PM
I just started the game myself and had to stop to pull laundry out. I did notice that turning subtitles also translates whenever the characters speak in Serbian, so that's a fun little thing. I think I'm going to end up leaving the subtitles on though like I do with all GTAs. Whenever characters speak during driving, it's difficult to understand them for me, especially if you're driving fast and police sirens are going off. That's about the extent of my experience so far though aside for some strolling around the neighborhood on foot. Things are a lot more dense then other GTAs with not only more alleyways, but alleyways that are much more than three flat planes between streets.

I also did manage to get ahold of the SE and it's a nice package. I'll probably actually use the duffle bag and I'm still deciding if I want to use to lockbox for stuff or it'll just make a cool game holder. Right now, I'm leaning towards game holder.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 06:15:26 PM
Oh yeah.  I always do subtitles myself.  While my hearing is still fine, I have more trouble picking information out of a noisy environment than I used to.  I noticed that the translated speech appears in a darker shade of gray.  I thought perhaps that would always appear, even with subtitles turned off.

There certainly is a huge amount of stuff to see everywhere, and it's impressive.  The lighting is noticeably better than in earlier GTAs as well.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 06:41:28 PM
I just got through the cutscene and drove to cousin Roman's place.  I have to say I'm really impressed with how well put together it is and whatnot.  Like was said before, the environment is really dense and everything feels believable.  A nice little touch I noticed was when you hit someone's car bad enough, they jump out of the car to survey the damage or complain at you.  I thought that was amusing.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 06:42:35 PM
You knew something like this might go down... (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6190070.html?tag=latestnews;title;1)

Quote
Midnight GTAIV sales see stabbing, mugging
Police say one man apparently waiting in line attacked a passerby, while a teenager elsewhere was beaten up for his copy of the game.

By Brendan Sinclair, GameSpot
Posted Apr 29, 2008 11:03 am PT

Midnight launches aren't always the gaming industry's proudest moments. The PlayStation 3 release in particular was riddled with launch-related crimes, including a mugging, a store robbery, a launch line hold-up, and a shooting.

Grand Theft Auto IV went on sale in stores around the world at 12:01 a.m. this morning, and already reports of criminal midnight launch madness are starting to filter in. BBC News is reporting on a pair of incidents, with news of a stabbing outside a Gamestation in Croydon and a mugging by another game store in Lancashire.

According to the news service, a 23-year-old man was attacked by a knife-wielding assailant as he passed a line outside the Gamestation. The victim was treated for several stab wounds and has since been released. The attacker, who police said appeared to be waiting in the line of about 50 to 100 people, was not apprehended.

In the mugging, an 18-year-old was robbed of his copy of the game and beaten as he walked home from the store with a friend. The victim was taken to the hospital with a broken jaw and a broken nose.

Police are asking for witnesses in both cases to step forward.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 07:02:54 PM
Great, now the Brits are going to start this round of BS. Thanks Beo.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 08:21:49 PM
I got my SE in the mail today.  I was a bit worried since it still hadn't processed this morning, but it showed up around 2:30.  I haven't played yet... just popped it in the drive now.  I'm excited.  I love GTA for big cities with tons of stuff to explore and just mess around with, and that's exactly what everyone says is most improved here.  I'm eager to see it firsthand.  Cops and robbers?  Sure, whatever... just give me that big, beautiful city.

I'm sure I'll post later with my impressions.  Sy and I need to try some multiplayer soon, too.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 09:07:43 PM
I don't think they're ridiculous.  If there are oblique motives for some of the scores, then the results are all over the map across reviews.  But when every review hovers around a certain mark, aside from some possible "me too" cases, they share a common push.  Also, everyone now knows that the scores are going to be converted to a percentage scale and averaged.  Even before that, the subjective scale has always tended to coincide with the traditional school grading system, where really only the top 40% or so matters.  Everything below that is too shitty to dwell on.  A 3/5 is bad.  A 6/10 is bad.  A 60 is bad.

How the scores are arrived at is another question.  If the process is bullshit, so is the score.  Hopefully, that all comes out in the wash with the metascores.  If not, well, why bother with the gaming press at all?  Let's just read the glossy ad copy and watch some videos to get a general idea.  We'll have to play the games to figure the rest out for ourselves.  If we have the money and the time, that's probably the best approach.  Else, we have to invest some trust in the press.

Come on - you know what I'm talking about. So many people look at the score and ignore the written review completely. The score is bullshit if you don't know why the reviewer arrived at it. Every reviewer has a different reason for arriving at a score - they aren't all the same. This is why the aggregate score is not accurate - when the motives are different, the result is not based on any sort of similar basis.

That said, I do think that the average scores do reflect an overall attitude towards a game - it's just important not to take the score at face value.

Anyways, sorry for being off topic.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
So I've been playing the game a bit now, and I love the heck out of it.  It's very much another GTA game, and doesn't feel so different from the others in the major senses... it's just in the details that everything comes out and shines.  This is just a much better game than the others were, I think, though it isn't so different.  There's more to do, *way* more to see (in terms of things that are actually interesting, or at the very least unique to look at and explore), and the level of immersion and realism has increased without making anything seem more real than you want it to.  Everything here is still a complete caricature of real life, entirely over the top, with no risk of having your ridiculous fantasy intersect with reality at all.  It's mighty fine.

Problems, though, sadly.  For me, anyway.  During the first cutscene the game froze.  Bad.  The sound kept going, though, so I mashed buttons and nothing happened for about 5 seconds.  Then the PS3 menu came up, I backed out, and the video was going again.  Okay.  Weird.  I played for another half hour or so, and then another cutscene froze.  This lasted maybe 3 or 4 seconds, I did nothing, and then it just started up again (the video jumped ahead instantly and was still in sync with the audio).  Weird again, but I let it go.  Then I got a freeze in the middle of gameplay a bit after that, but it was only a second or two and didn't really affect anything.  I've been playing an hour or hour and a half since then and nothing has happened again since.  Dunno' what that's all about, but it makes me nervous.

Anyway, the other thing I saw reported is that the game looks "blurry", and I now know what people were talking about.  The game just plain looks blurry.  It isn't depth of field, it isn't jaggies or bad textures or whatever, the game just looks blurry, plain and simple.  I can't figure it out, though, because it kind of seems to come and go, or at least there are times when the problem is accentuated.  I dunno' what the deal is, but I'm finding it a bit distracting.  It generally isn't so bad, but now and again it'll pop up and Niko's head just looks like it's in a fucking heat haze or something.  It's weird and I can't figure it out.

But aside from that, I have nothing but great things to say.  I get why the game is scoring so high.  It's really just another GTA game at heart, but it's just better and cooler and bigger and more awesome.  Plus Liberty City itself is just amazingly cool.  So much better than the cities we've seen in the past.  This is the real deal.  It still isn't the crowning pinnacle of perfection that it could someday be, but it's so much closer to that dream than the others were.  It's just a joy to explore, and even if there isn't anything to really do or see in a given area, each street finally looks unique and is just cool to check out for the simple fact that more time went into crafting it and making it look the way it does.  I'm very impressed and can't wait to explore every nook and cranny.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 11:59:32 PM
I haven't had any of those problems, Que. I do have a thought about them though. I remember reading similiar things with Assassin's Creed and some people managed to fix it by signing out of the Playstation Network and turning off that little notification thing on the system menu. When I set up the system I set it so I didn't automatically log into the network and I didn't want to have the newsbar. Maybe that'll help.

As for the blurriness, I see it and I don't. To me it looks like a depth of field effect taken to extremes, but I can't say I've seen it on things in the foreground.

Edit: Also on the freezing, rumor is that deleting the install and saves and reinstalling also has the potential to fix the problem on the PS3. Of course, that kills whatever work you might have done, but it might be worth looking into if it happens again.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 12:19:36 AM
There is no blurriness in the near field, except for shadows.  When those are heavy because of the time of day, the whole road can take on a distracting, dizzying look.  Of course, I'm assuming they're using the same cost-cutting techniques on both versions of the game.  That's not necessarily so.

Que, if nothing else helps, consider reinstalling the game after doing whatever cleanup is possible on a PS3 HDD.  Your unit is so new, though, I can hardly believe it would be all fragmented already.

Edit:  CVG story of freezing PS3 version. (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=187902)  I hope Rockstar weighs in on this.

Joystiq as well. (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/04/29/ps3-gta-iv-freezing-up-fix-suggests-deleting-data-starting-ove/)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 12:31:52 AM
Sort of hard to tell now.  I've been playing for a few hours and it's all starting to blend together.  I definitely feel like this could look sharper in any case.  It isn't bad, just a bit less than expected.  The general colorful nature and good texturing of the rest of the graphics make up for it, though.  It's very vibrant in just the right kind of dingy way.

No clue about my PS3 and the freeze issues.  It hasn't done anything like that in several hours now, so I have no idea what's going on.  I'll Sy's suggestion on the PSN/news bar thing if it happens again, though.  As of now it seems to have stabilized.

I don't find the shadows too bad.  They're definitely a little wonky, but not nearly as bad as the ones in Devil May Cry 4.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 12:46:35 AM
Kotaku has the best story on the freeze so far. (http://kotaku.com/385183/rockstar-support-no-gta-freeze-fix-in-sight)  Some of it seems odd to me, though, because on the one hand they claim Rockstar is saying it only affects the 60GB PS3 model, and on the other that the 360 has the exact same problem.  Some clarification on all that would be lovely.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 01:16:31 AM
Yea I did also noticed the blurriness of the distance, I wasnt going to say anything cause I wanted to know if the big TV just accentuated it more and to see if anyone else would say anything. Probably not as sharp as I thought it would be, but its not that glaring.

What do you guys think of the driving physics? One of the main complaints was how cars realistically give out more easily on higher speed turns, I personally dont mind and actually kind of like it, it requires some extra skill to the car chase parts but makes it feel more alive.

I also found out that instead of having collectible hidden items to find, there is hidden pigeons and rats to shoot, kinda funny but cool.

Oh also, did anybody else get really fucking dizzy when getting Niko wasted? Holy crap the circling camera motion makes me nauseous.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 01:32:35 AM
Heh, I found it hilarious.  The whole drinking thing just amuses the hell out of me.

Also, I'm sort of not down with shooting pigeons and rats.  Which is weird.  I can shoot people without much issue, but animals?  Eh.  The difference is, I guess, that I like animals.  I'm generally less fond of people.  Or not fond of them at all.  Though I have to say, I feel much worse about killing random bystanders and stuff in this game.  It never bothered me even a little in the others, but the behavior is a bit too realistic for me now.  Not that the people seem real exactly, it's just little isolated new things they do.  Like you'll see a woman rummaging through the trunk of her car for something, and if you accidentally mow her down it's like... well, fuck.  Sorry about that.  I find myself being more careful of only delivering the final blow to those who deserve it.  I think Niko's attitude helps, too.  He isn't just some crazy nutjob, he's actually a somewhat likable guy who seems more inclined to do things on the level than get involved in the stuff he ends up getting involved in.

And again, the blurriness I'm talking about isn't in the distance.  I noticed that, but the whole game just seems blurry to me somehow.  I take it nobody else has noticed it at all here, but I've seen it reported elsewhere on the net, too.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: iPPi on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 09:24:11 AM
I've put in about an hour into the game and so far it's been really fun.  I need to put in more time though.

Anyway, my console froze once on the opening cinematic, but a reboot and it played fine. 
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 10:31:39 AM
Yea I did also noticed the blurriness of the distance, I wasnt going to say anything cause I wanted to know if the big TV just accentuated it more and to see if anyone else would say anything. Probably not as sharp as I thought it would be, but its not that glaring.

What do you guys think of the driving physics? One of the main complaints was how cars realistically give out more easily on higher speed turns, I personally dont mind and actually kind of like it, it requires some extra skill to the car chase parts but makes it feel more alive.

I also found out that instead of having collectible hidden items to find, there is hidden pigeons and rats to shoot, kinda funny but cool.

Oh also, did anybody else get really fucking dizzy when getting Niko wasted? Holy crap the circling camera motion makes me nauseous.

Yes, as I said above, the blurriness is in the distance, but shadows are very low resolution.  So in certain places at times of day with long shadows, the near field can look distractingly blurry too because of them.

Wait till you drive a Corvette clone or Ferrari clone.  Those suckers change speed and direction in a hurry.  You can make much shorter stops from high speed than in the old American sedans.  So it's not all bad.  You have to drive according to your car's limits, and that's a step in the right direction.

I almost had to quit the game after the drunk outing.  What made it worse is that as soon as I pressed the gas pedal, before rolling 2 inches, the cop car that was nearby immediately turned on the rollers and told us to get out of the car.  Naturally, I sped away, weaving all over with the camera going in circles.  Bashed my way out of the wanted circle, and about puked.  Nicely done, Rockstar--too nicely.

Edit:
Anyway, my console froze once on the opening cinematic, but a reboot and it played fine. 

*Sigh*  I can tell you what the general problem is on the 360.  My guess is that the problem extends to the PS3.  If you read around in the Criterion troubleshooting forum for Burnout Paradise, you can get the info firsthand.  The development and testing kits for the 360 do not fully emulate the retail hardware.  My guess is that they behave too well.  For patches, from what I gather, the situation is unworkable.  They cannot be fully verified until deployed.  For disc games, I suppose an internal release for retail hardware is possible, but I really don't know how much of this is done, or what hardware it gets tested on.  Hence, we keep getting games with odd herky-jerkies and completely unprofessional crashing code.

Edit 2: Let the fanboy wars begin! (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/04/30/ps3-grand-theft-auto-iv-is-640p-nobody-cares/)  :D
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 02:58:20 PM
Rockstar's claiming it did cost around approximately $100 million, give or take, to make GTA4. (http://grandtheftauto.ign.com/articles/news/408/100-Million-Spent-on-GTA-IV-Development)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 03:53:44 PM
I've gone through a few missions at the beginning, and I've only had the gameplay freeze once in the middle of me going full speed through a street. It only lasted for about 3 seconds though.  Then I had some disc unreadable error and it made me reboot.  Otherwise, it's been great.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: wizall on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 04:41:35 PM
I'm jealous of all you guys with the game already.  I swung by a local joint after work, but no luck.  I did get Saint's Row last weekend for $20, so that should stave off urges for this genre.  It's actually quite good, but I don't imagine it compares to the mother that is GTAIV.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 05:09:59 PM
You know, sometimes, I just turn it on and let it sit there.
Just cause I can.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 05:21:06 PM
You know, sometimes, I just turn it on and let it sit there.
Just cause I can.
(Damn freeze-bug must be annoying)

Wait...I thought this was a console game, not a PC game? :P
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: wizall on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 05:32:55 PM
You know, sometimes, I just turn it on and let it sit there.
Just cause I can.

How dare you.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 06:39:18 PM
Edit 2: Let the fanboy wars begin! (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/04/30/ps3-grand-theft-auto-iv-is-640p-nobody-cares/)  :D

Oh, this is going to get fun, especially since pretty much every review out there said the PS3 did look better like the article pointed out. Maybe it's my noob HDTV eyes, but the thing looks plenty sharp to me (at least in terms of resolution).

On the topic of the actual game, I'm having the same thing happen to me as Que. In general, I'm being more careful when I drive and actually use the horn. Actually, I'm being more careful in general, like when I decide to take a car. It seems like there are more cops around to spot that sort of thing and about half the time it seems like when I try to take a car a cop is there to bust me. It might have something to do with the great new touch of actually breaking into parked vehicles and making the crime take longer, but even with car jacking it seems like the police see what I'm doing. It also feels like people who you jack cars from are more inclined to chase you done before you accelerate off and with the new physics they have a better chance of getting to the door. Overall, I think I'm being far less of a petty criminal compared to previous games. The new physics actually plays into things as well because it's easier to lose control, so you drive more carefully because of these things as well. I'm really liking how it changes the feel of the game overall. Things aren't necessarily more realistic, but the whole game just has more weight to it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 06:50:31 PM
How dare you.

At this very moment, Niko is impeding traffic by standing in the middle of the road on top of a stolen car.  There is much cussing and turmoil.

One thing I found that I'm getting fond of is stealing someone's car and then waiting just long enough for them to get a hold of the handle before I speed off.  That initial look of shock and the way their body is pulled completely horizontal to the car is very satisfying.

Someone mentioned also seeing an old woman checking under the hood of her stalled car.  He honked the horn at her which made her jump and hit her head on the hood which then fell down on her head.  Gold.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 07:05:24 PM
You know, sometimes, I just turn it on and let it sit there.
Just cause I can.

You know, sometimes I go to peoples houses and urinate on their consoles.
Just cause I can.

Quote
Someone mentioned also seeing an old woman checking under the hood of her stalled car.  He honked the horn at her which made her jump and hit her head on the hood which then fell down on her head.  Gold.

That's awesome on so many levels.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ScaryTooth on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 07:07:14 PM
This thing is tits. Love the little details. Even the dialog is detailed. Like, I went on a few dates with Michelle. And I went and got some new clothes, and she noticed and started talking about my new clothes.

I'm just kind of running at the moment. The city is massive, and I seem to be having a little more trouble memorizing where things are than I did in the other GTA games. Or maybe I just suck. I'm also still figuring out how to handle cars. Lot more realistic than in the other games.

But damn, this game is sweet.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 07:17:38 PM
Yea, it's also cool that there's a one month trial for XBox Live Gold included, so I might just jump on Live one of these days.  We should try to coordinate something for that.
Question though, is the multiplayer cross-platform or console specific?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 07:21:40 PM
I never think of the horn during random driving.  I need to make a mental note.

Now I've had a freeze myself, kind of.  It went to a blank "LOADING" screen and never came back.  That was after coming out of a cutscene in a bar with Vlad, very close to the safe house.  I failed that mission the first time.  The load time was very long then too, but it finally came back.  The 2nd time, though, it never did.  I even left the (real) room for a while and came back, and it was still stuck.  I was able to go out to the dashboard and restart the game, so it wasn't a hard crash.  It just couldn't sort something out.  It's probably cache-related, because when I did the sequence again after restarting, there was no load time coming out of the bar at all.

I played pool again tonight, this time with Michelle.  The pool sim seemed alright yesterday, but tonight I thought it was crap.  I may be doing something wrong.  Is the angle important when shooting with the thumbstick, like it is in bowling?  Because it seemed that the impact point of the cue was often nowhere near where I had aimed before.  Also the behavior at the rails seems way off.  Sometimes the balls stick to them like glue (instead of bouncing).

I got a bit further in the missions, and finally got a gun.  The shooting and cover mechanics are good fun.  I can tell I'm going to get my ass handed to me in harder missions if I don't practice.

I went all the way up that tower with those 3 round platforms today.  That's a real place in NY, which I've driven past myself.  On the way down, I went too far before hitting Y, and . . . AAAAAAUGH!  It was too funny.  I went end over end bouncing off of stuff, all the way to the ground.  Woke up outside the hospital some $100+ dollars lighter.  Hahaha!

I'm pretty sure the MP is console-specific.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 07:54:29 PM
Yes, no cross-platform play.  A shame.

I haven't gotten to play today, but I was thinking about it all day.  Getting into it now and will be lost forever.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 08:41:11 PM
Hey guys, remember San Andreas? I'm playing that. It's pretty fun. Lets talk more about that at less about this newer, more awesome game.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 10:20:23 PM
Heh.  Seriously, this game is blowing me away.  I'm really interested in Niko and the rest of the story, and the characters are much more interesting so far than most of the past games.  Everyone was right in saying that this is the first likable main guy we've really had, but the whole situation is better, too, because you're sort of rooting for he and his cousin, wondering what's going to happen to them both.

Have explored most of the first island, now.  I'm at 11.02% game progress with 14 passed missions and about 5 and a half hours of game time.  My longest free fall is 83.25 feet.  Michelle fondness is 63.00%.  Last couple dates didn't quite go as planned.  I have about $1,000.

What's everyone's favorite radio station?  Mine's easily the jazz station.  Soon as I heard some Charlie Parker come on it got my attention, and it's got some Art Blakey and Duke and Dizzy on there, too.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 11:39:20 PM
Yes!  The jazz station is great.  Duke Ellington & Count Basie too.  My freefall is over 127 feet, off that tower I mentioned before.  I found a way into Manhat . . . er, Algonquin.  Then I survived there for about 3:20 on 6 stars.  It looked very familiar.

(click to show/hide)

"There are 199 flying rats left in Liberty City."

Hahahahaha!  Feathers all over.

I wish I could turn Roman down without getting him down.  All the little activities are losing their appeal.  I like to roam and explore for long periods, and I keep turning him down.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 12:38:21 AM
I'm enjoying the little appearances by Ricky Gervais and Bas Rutten.
First thing I hear when I turn on the tv is Gervais making jokes about dictators and AIDS.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 12:57:38 AM
There's something about listening to Goodbye Horses and being chased by the cops thats extremely cinematic, I just kinda had a moment.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 01:07:48 AM
Cobra, do *all* calls get turned off when you turn off the cell phone?  I've done it a few times and got no calls, but it says something about story calls, so I wasn't sure if it meant all or just some.  Worth a shot if you haven't tried it yet, though.  Also, do you think you could just turn Roman down and then call him up to do something else instead?  Like if he wants to play darts, decline, then call him up and ask him if he wants to get food intead?

Anyway, I'm just loving the hell out of this game.  Little John and Badman crack me the hell up.  Think I'm going to start doing some of the freelance jobs for LJ and some of the rides for Roman just to make a little extra money.  Got to see the strip club tonight, which would be almost startling if it weren't for the still very low poly models.  Got to check out the in-game internet too, which has some hilarious stuff on it.  This thing is a total time sink.  It's after 1 already, damn it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 01:12:28 AM
I love the game most of the time, then it does something to piss me off so bad I have to turn it off and walk away.  Like a mission where I'm chasing someone up ladders, and the fucker will not grab the 2nd ladder no matter where I stand and how much I abuse Y.  I was shooting at the target up a flight, and I'm wondering if that triggered the stupidity in programming.  Meanwhile, the cops got in on the act and came up behind me.  It's enough for one day.  More tomorrow.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 01:16:58 AM
Cobra, do *all* calls get turned off when you turn off the cell phone?  I've done it a few times and got no calls, but it says something about story calls, so I wasn't sure if it meant all or just some.  Worth a shot if you haven't tried it yet, though.  Also, do you think you could just turn Roman down and then call him up to do something else instead?  Like if he wants to play darts, decline, then call him up and ask him if he wants to get food intead?

Anyway, I'm just loving the hell out of this game.  Little John and Badman crack me the hell up.  Think I'm going to start doing some of the freelance jobs for LJ and some of the rides for Roman just to make a little extra money.  Got to see the strip club tonight, which would be almost startling if it weren't for the still very low poly models.  Got to check out the in-game internet too, which has some hilarious stuff on it.  This thing is a total time sink.  It's after 1 already, damn it.

Yea I love Little John, hes the man. Wait till you meet Brucie, oh god... its hilarious.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 07:23:37 AM
Haha, yeah, that guy is effing nuts.

And Cobra, yeah, that's why this is still a GTA game at heart.  As great as it is, there's just that element of wonkiness they haven't been able to remove from the mechanics or the graphics.  It's all better than it's ever been, but there's still kinks.  I had the same trouble with ladders until I realize it's like a car... just hit the button once and he'll go to it automatically if he's within a reasonable distance from it.  Pressing it several times at once ends up doing nothing.  That may not be your problem, but it's still indicative of the finicky nature of the game that can pop up from time to time.

I want to call in sick so bad today.  So, so bad.  Arg.  But I can't.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 10:18:06 AM
The 2nd attempt at that mission went very smoothly.  Stood in the same place.  Pressed Y the same way.  This time it worked.  It wasn't anything I was doing wrong the first time.  I was climbing ladders all over before this mission.  That freefall from the tower I mentioned earlier was actually 247 feet, not 127.  I mixed it up with the longest jump.  Heh.

That was a great cutscene after that mission too.  The story elements are strong, as is the voice acting and the use of the game engine to supply the visuals.  I'm all for this, but to me it's still supposed to be a game first and a vehicle for a story second.  Coming straight out of Burnout Paradise, I know there's a lot that can be improved, on this gen of consoles.  Even allowing for the much larger, much denser environment, there simply isn't the same level of technical or control excellence.  I'm probably being unfair, because what Criterion did is head and shoulders above the crowd, and they were not weighed down with such a massive undertaking.  I find myself way impressed overall, while often being disappointed with some of the important details.  The on-foot camera's automatic behavior, for example, is atrocious, and (to use your word) the wonkiness of Niko's response to joystick input only makes the problem worse. 

Edit:  You touched on the music before, and I only gave a short reply.  Here I have no complaint at all.  Somebody had outstanding musical taste and knowledge here.  Outside of the rap which I'll never understand, everything sounds terrific.  Lovely jazz (as mentioned), fusion, rock, reggae and that very interesting "The Journey" computer-DJ'd station.  (You should listen to that one all the way through once, when you're on a long aimless exploration tour.)  Disco strays from what I call disco, but it's good for a change.  The commercials can be gut-busting, as usual.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 10:24:33 AM
Just more things keep making me crack up.  I got hit by a car as I was crossing the street, so I got irritated and decided to attack the driver.  I was in a bit of a rampage, so an ambulance came out.  One thing I noticed about the ambulance drivers is that they drive terribly.  This particular instance they drove straight into a tree and killed themselves on impact.  It was a small thing, but infinitely amusing.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 10:49:49 AM
I guess the funniest moment for me was the long careening fall, full of yells, ughs and thuds.  Having an entire army chase you all over Manhattan was also very entertaining.  A couple of stuck-up high-class chicks were having the typical vapid conversation in that park with the globe and the statues.  I come over and stand real close, to see if I can interact in any non-lethal way.  One says "don't hate me because I'm beautiful!" and starts to walk away.  Then she gets her cell phone and starts having another inane girly conversation.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 01:53:00 PM
Rockstar's support team is saying to expect a fix to many of the issues w/ GTA4 in say "minutes or days" for X360 and PS3.

 (http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=050108_5)
Quote
Fix for GTA IV Soon
[Ure "Vader" Paul]
10:02 am EDT @ May 01st, 2008
Filed under: GTA IV, GRAND THEFT AUTO IV, ROCKSTAR
Seriously, fishing for news not related to GTA IV right now is an exercise in futility.

Anyway, those problems some players had with both PS3 and Xbox 360 versions of GTA IV will, evidently, be resolved by Rockstar soon. In fact, the latest word from Rockstar Support is that the fix could arrive in minutes or days (that's what they said).

Also, here's a few things you should check if you've been experiencing problems during the game:

    Did my harddrive have enough space?
    Do I have the latest firmware?
    Is my screen saver turned off?
    Is vibration turned off?
    Are my video settings turned to 720?
    Is Autosave off?

We didn't have any problems, luckily. Those who are having these issues, should know that Rockstar is "working around the clock" to fix this.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 07:10:05 PM
I know what you mean about the technical stuff, Cobra, but Rockstar is a developer very much like Bethesda - you know going in what you'll be getting.  GTAIV is exactly what the others were, just better.  It's got the same little issues, some of the same shitty textures, same clipping problems, etc., just like Oblivion had a lot of the same problems Morrowind did (which had plenty of those that Daggerfall did).  Developers have their collective weak spots, and Rockstar's are in those little technical details that just don't quite work out right.  But they make a fine game, so there's only so bitchy we can be.  True, Burnout Paradise was a phenomenal achievement in the technical sense, and I get the feeling that those Criterion games run a very tight ship with their code and their approach to testing it, but like you said, the scope of what they had to do was so much more limited.  I suspect they'd still do a better job than Rockstar if they actually got to make the game instead, but... eh.  There's not much point spending time worrying about it.  I just take the few hits when I have to if the game acts up, then move on and continue enjoying it.  I'm just glad my game hasn't frozen at all again (not so much as a hitch, in fact).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 08:38:27 PM
No major tech issues here either.  Some occasional momentary hitches have hit me here and there, but nothing worse than your typical console game streaming.  High-res textures will sometimes take a few seconds to come in over the blurry ones, but I much prefer that to freezing the action until they load.  No freezes of any kind. 

I went through some more missions, and the last thing I did was compare the performance of 3 sports cars at the airport oval-shaped parking lot.  The Turismo (Ferrari) has the most neutral handling, with only a bit of understeer at the limits.  Power is good and brakes are anti-lock and pretty solid.  All 3 cars have anti-lock brakes, in fact.  None of them will skid out of control when you mash the brakes going around a turn.  The Coquette (Corvette) is awesome.  This may be my favorite so far.  It has more pronounced understeer, but the power and brakes are so good that they more than compensate.  This car will stop on a dime, and is fully in control under heavy braking.  The Banshee (Viper?) is wild, with lots of torque and backfiring at every full-throttle gearshift.  Good braking, but it feels heavy.  You will need more room to come to a stop, though you have full control while braking.

In all cars, hitting the handbrake will break traction at the rear wheels, so all that precise handling goes out the window.  I don't like to use it on these cars except at low speeds to make 90-degree turns around town.  A short tap can be useful around wide turns at speed, but hold it too long, and off the side you go backwards.

Great fun.  I still prefer the hood view for all-out racing, but I've gotten much better with the close behind view, which is more practical most of the time.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, May 01, 2008, 09:34:13 PM
I enjoy the driving.  The Coquette is easily my favorite car, too, which is sort of funny since I'm a big Corvette fan IRL (or as big a fan as a guy who can't afford and has no time for cars can be).

I think the one thing that pisses me off about this game is some of the shitty textures.  Some of these are just horrendously terrible, and getting up to them on foot means that you literally sometimes can't even tell what they're supposed to be or read their signage.  It's awful.  I don't see why they had to be quite so low-res.  You think they could have done just a wee bit better, but some of this stuff is as fucking ugly as it was in GTA3 all those years ago.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, May 02, 2008, 01:00:41 AM
Whoa!  I think that's not meant to happen.  I've seen some textures that get somewhat blurry up close, but they're never unreadable (unless I catch them before the higher-res ones load up over top of them).  I wonder if it just can't pull the up-close texture there for some reason.

I played for several hours again tonight, but only did about 3 missions.  I swear, if I could get to the rest of the map right now, I'd do one mission a sitting tops.  What's driving me to do missions at all is the hope of unlocking downtown and I guess New Jersey replica.  My favorite activity is always the freeform sandbox stuff.  I found TW@ finally.  Not much to see there, though I understand there's a lot if you know what to type in.  I don't want to stumble into a cheats yet, though.  Those may all be phone-based.  Don't know yet.

I shot a cop during one mission, and suddenly the entire visible area on the map was flashing (not just a bigger circle).  There were helicopters, vans, and really aggressive cops chasing me all over.  Someone killed me while I was in the car in a big hurry.  WTF?  I don't recall it going from one star to full warfare in previous games because one uniform got too squarely in my way.  I also wandered into the business area of the airport earlier (planes, runways) and again, instant armageddon.  It just seems too heavy handed too quickly.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Friday, May 02, 2008, 02:48:31 AM
A friend brought this over tonight and we played for a couple of hours and I had a blast.  I'm sold, I'll probably be getting this after I finish some games that I'm playing now, possibly after Metal Gear Solid 4 coming out in June.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, May 02, 2008, 04:36:05 AM
I think Brucie may be one of my most favorite video game characters of all time. At first I was slightly disturbed by him, but god, hanging out with the guy is just pure entertainment. We got drunk and that was fucking great, I mean everything out of the guys mouth is hilarity. I got an email from him earlier, "I'm about to go have a threesome... with chicks, not dudes, I dont role that way bro. I pound the chicks and punch the dudes. Stay Alpha!!"  Ive been doing all the car stealing I can for him and did some of the races. I unlocked the special favor he does for you, I won't say what it is so as to not spoil, but its fucking awesome.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, May 02, 2008, 01:49:52 PM
Rockstar's boss Dan Houser speaks his mind on violence, casual gaming, some of the GTA4 development, and other stuff. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=135515)

Quote
'F*** casual gaming,' says Rockstar boss
News by Ellie Gibson

Today 15:58

Rockstar Games boss Dan Houser has declared he's no fan of casual gaming - in no uncertain terms.

"F*** all this stuff about casual gaming," he told the New York Metro.

"I think people still want games that are groundbreaking. The Wii is doing something totally different, which is fantastic. We're hopefully going to prove that there's also a very big audience for people who want entertainment in another form, who think of games as being a narrative device that can challenge movies."

According to Houser, too many developers make games about the same old themes - "orcs and elves, or monsters, or space". In contrast, Rockstar prefers to make games "about something we could actually relate to. Or aspire to".

As for the issue of whether there's too much violence in GTA IV: "If you don't like any violent content in your entertainment, then I apologise because I do. And I've unfortunately been exposed to it my entire life. If we equally got rid of a lot of books that talk about violence, okay."

Houser went on to question why it seems to be okay for violent content to feature in films and TV programmes, but not games. "What you're saying is you don't like the medium because we don't have a George Clooney type sticking his face in front of the camera. There is nothing in the game you would not see in a TV show, or a movie a hundred times over, so I don't understand what the conversation is about."

For more from Houser, including some stuff about, you know, how they made the game and everything, read the full interview. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/05/rockstar_games_dan_houser.html)

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Friday, May 02, 2008, 02:01:47 PM
Quote
In contrast, Rockstar prefers to make games "about something we could actually relate to. Or aspire to".

Who relates / aspires to stealing cars and killing people? Is this guy nuts?

The rest I generally agree with.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, May 02, 2008, 05:46:52 PM
Yeah, that statement seems rather inappropriate.  Nobody should aspire to that kind of shit and nobody ever should.

It's actually interesting, I've been writing a little sort of dissertation on my thoughts on GTA and game violence, not to mention other themes and such.  I wonder if anyone would be interested in me posting it here?  It's about 8 pages now.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, May 02, 2008, 06:24:30 PM
Yeah, that statement seems rather inappropriate.  Nobody should aspire to that kind of shit and nobody ever should.
What he should've said was, "I'm into stuff that is more reality-based and way less fictitious."

Quote
It's actually interesting, I've been writing a little sort of dissertation on my thoughts on GTA and game violence, not to mention other themes and such.  I wonder if anyone would be interested in me posting it here?  It's about 8 pages now.
Can you link it up on these boards?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ScaryTooth on Friday, May 02, 2008, 10:27:23 PM
Heh, has anyone started calling any of the numbers mentioned in the game or instruction book? Like ZiT or anything? It's sweet. You can find the names of songs in the game by calling. If you hear a song they play, you call them, and the text you the info about the song on your phone. I'm looking for other numbers now, heh.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, May 02, 2008, 11:32:15 PM
Heh, I haven't figured out how to actually dial anything.  What the hell do you do?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ScaryTooth on Friday, May 02, 2008, 11:38:11 PM
Well, on the XBox 360 you hit up on the d-pad to bring up the phone. Hit up again, and it brings the keypad up.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 12:11:39 AM
You know, depending on how you want to define "casual game", GTA is pretty damn casual. EVERYONE plays it, you can go in and just fuck around for entertainment.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 12:23:43 AM
I think that you would be hard pressed to argue otherwise. That's one of the things that I love about the franchise - I can pick it up and do a mission or two, or I can just run around and fuck shit up. Running around killing people indiscriminately is so rewarding.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 01:25:25 AM
You know, depending on how you want to define "casual game", GTA is pretty damn casual. EVERYONE plays it, you can go in and just fuck around for entertainment.

Yes exactly. I think to me that this is why the praise its getting is actually worthy of it. In terms of just sheer accessibility, the game is a marvel. Pretty much any human being meant for the Mature audience can truly have a blast with this, whether just to pick up and play or have a much more deeper experience.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ScaryTooth on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 10:52:07 AM
Ok, so what are your guys' favorite radio stations?

So far, I like Broker, and LCHC. Liberty Rock is decent too.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 11:47:43 AM
JNR is completely my favorite.  I just wish there were more songs on it.  When I first played the original GTA on PC, I'd switch out the CD and pop in Dave Brubeck's Time Out album.  For some reason jazz just always seemed to fit for me despite the craziness of the game.  Jazz is city music, and the GTA games are all about the cities (which is why I love them... I could care less about the crime drama themes).

But yeah, some good music on this one.  Fusion is pretty sweet, Journey is a fun experience (best DJ evar).  I want to like Tuff Gong, but it just doesn't quite hit the spot.  Some of it is cool, but come on... I like Bob Marley as much as the next guy, but there's more music out there in the world.

As far as calling GTAIV a casual game... I don't think that quite holds up.  It's accessible, but it isn't casual.  This isn't Peggle.  It's just a game that happens to be accessible.  I wouldn't call Halo a casual game either, even though I think it's overly simplistic and repetitive... it's just accessible.  It isn't hardcore like Ikaruga or something ridiculous like that, but I still think it's a far cry from what we normally think of as casual.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 04:41:21 PM
As far as calling GTAIV a casual game... I don't think that quite holds up.  It's accessible, but it isn't casual.  This isn't Peggle.  It's just a game that happens to be accessible.  I wouldn't call Halo a casual game either, even though I think it's overly simplistic and repetitive... it's just accessible.  It isn't hardcore like Ikaruga or something ridiculous like that, but I still think it's a far cry from what we normally think of as casual.

I don't think GTA Series nor the Elder Scrolls series are casual games by any means; especially if you say follow the main quest. Especially, given the kind of grind you will undertake to try and finish any of these games. If you follow either of these games' main quest storylines, you will be done w/ it at least after putting in say a good 20 hours. A casual game to me is something you finish your run-through in one sitting -- like say Columns, Tetris, Bejeweled; any of those games.

Though, both of those series do have some of those elements that make it a casual game. Let me explain. The pick up and play aspect is very high on GTA and Elder Scrolls b/c of the freedom both games give you. Okay, the both say "here's your gameworld; just go nuts with it." Don't want to follow the main story? Then don't. Just go walk around, ride around, attack anything, buy things, sell things, etc etc -- that sandbox style on its own is a hell of a lot of fun and can be a casual fun game within itself.
 
I think what games like GTA series (Action) and Oblivion (RPG) have done is make those normally much more hardcore type of games more accessible to casual gamers by trying to further remove that steep learning curve that usually comes with these type of games. What do they do? Well, they go and throw in features w/ each iteration to appeal to the casual crowd. A much better easier-to-use Interfaces for in-game menus; quick fast traveling features to go straight to "important" locations on maps in a matter of seconds; awesome action; excellent game controls; that's just a few things these series have done to improve on themselves. It just seems like these two series know how to improve on the elements in previous games that might've annoyed casual gamers by implementing new features next time around to try and win them over.

I mean, hell -- what was the biggest problem casual gamers probably had w/ games w/ big open-worlds to explore such as say STALKER: SoC? GTA: San Andreas? Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind? No really good instant fast-traveling system. STALKER: Clear Sky, GTA4, and Oblivion all will appeal to the casual gamers b/c of this; especially if they want to follow the game's main quest storyline very closely and much more quickly.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 08:29:55 PM
I don't really buy that, though.  Oblivion or GTAIV are no more easy or difficult to control or understand than anything else.  If you've never played a video game before you'll have just as much trouble with GTAIV as you would with anything else.  It's very similar to a lot of other games on the market in regards to control and interface, and while you might be able to pick up and play whenever for just a while, that doesn't make it casual.  It just means you don't have to play for extended periods if you don't want to.

EDIT - Well, this is disheartening.  My game won't load.  I sat down to play, loaded the game, and it just sits there forever at the loading screen.  I tried to quit the game and it wouldn't even do that, after about a minute the PS3 just beeped at me and rebooted itself.  I'm trying to load a second time and same thing... it went through all of the theme music and is just sitting there at the loading screen doing nothing.

Fuck.

EDIT x2 - It's an internet problem (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/grandtheftauto4/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-42916770&pid=933036).  Turning off the connection fixes it, and supposedly you can save a new game after doing that, quit, turn your connection back on, then play okay again.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 09:40:08 PM
So I got a 360 and this game which comes with a month of Live for free. This may already be covered but I don't want to go through the thread and spoil things for myself. Are we playing online on the 360 version or no?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 09:54:35 PM
JNR is completely my favorite.  I just wish there were more songs on it.  When I first played the original GTA on PC, I'd switch out the CD and pop in Dave Brubeck's Time Out album.  For some reason jazz just always seemed to fit for me despite the craziness of the game.  Jazz is city music, and the GTA games are all about the cities (which is why I love them... I could care less about the crime drama themes).

But yeah, some good music on this one.  Fusion is pretty sweet, Journey is a fun experience (best DJ evar).  I want to like Tuff Gong, but it just doesn't quite hit the spot.  Some of it is cool, but come on... I like Bob Marley as much as the next guy, but there's more music out there in the world.

As far as calling GTAIV a casual game... I don't think that quite holds up.  It's accessible, but it isn't casual.  This isn't Peggle.  It's just a game that happens to be accessible.  I wouldn't call Halo a casual game either, even though I think it's overly simplistic and repetitive... it's just accessible.  It isn't hardcore like Ikaruga or something ridiculous like that, but I still think it's a far cry from what we normally think of as casual.

Well no its not peggle, Im not going to say its the most casual thing out there, but it is to a smaller degree. I guess what I meant to say is that it strikes a fine balance between being casual and yet at the same time can be something much more complex. The appeal has such a broad stretch, hence it is very accessible. Any casual gamer can jump in and know in a very small time what options are available to him and start fucking around immediately. As for the comment on Halo, well, thats a completely separate game for a more narrow audience, I guess you can call it accessible for the general hardcore gamer audience.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: K-man on Saturday, May 03, 2008, 11:21:28 PM
I know one thing.  This GTA has held my attention much longer than any other GTA has to date.  I think that's partly due to the fact that there's always something right in front of you to do. 
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 12:59:06 PM
I agree, K-Man.  Well, I did finish GTA3, but I think that was the only one I saw through to completion.  Generally the formula just got old for me before the games were over.  20 hours into 4 at this point with no signs of abating, though.  I can't *wait* to see the rest of the city.  I've got over half of it yet to be explored!  The city is just amazing.

Couple of stupid things to look at -

In case you want to get your stupid fanboy on, Gametrailers posted another stupid comparison video (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33470.html) which demonstrates absolutely nothing.

And if that's not enough stupid GTA-related crap for you, here's a mostly worthless article from IGN (http://pc.ign.com/articles/871/871415p1.html) about the possibility of GTA4 seeing a PC release, and on the PC sales of the other GTA games.

Pre-analysis Rant -

I'll hopefully get my little "article" up at some point, but for now I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that I think a lot of people in the game journalism industry and a lot of gamers themselves help to perpetuate the eternal stereotypes of GTA and similar games.  In the IGN article one of the guys says:

Quote
And while it's true that the console crowds are growing a bit more adult in their tastes (is it right to use the word "mature" when discussing a game about killing cops and prostitutes?), there's definitely a huge group of players on the PC who are hungry for this kind of grown-up experience.

We all understand the point he's trying to make with the comment, and I'm kind of just arguing to argue here, but what the fuck?  Why do we go around spouting hyperbole when we're dealing with something already misunderstood?  Obviously GTA is far from some high-art masterpiece of philosophy or whatever, but the game isn't about killing cops or prostitutes.  Seriously, think about that for a minute.  How many times in all the games combined are you actually tasked with going out and murdering cops?  Almost never.  95% of the time the cops are an *incidental* enemy, opposed to you simply because you're doing stuff that they have an inherent interest in keeping you from doing.  But your actual enemies are almost exclusively other crooks (or corrupt government officials, etc.).  Everyone spends so much time overgeneralizing the specifics of GTA's irresponsibility to the point where they inadvertently make it look like a completely different game from what it is.  It isn't as though we're going to change a lot of minds by changing that attitude or anything, as the topics are still controversial in any light, but doesn't it seem stupid to anyone else that we still indirectly hurt our own causes by being so careless in our own representations of things?

I've been playing GTA4 for 20 hours now.  In that time I have only killed 87 people.  That's about four and a half deaths per hour.  When you consider that many missions task you with killing like 5 to 10 other crooks, and you tackle a number of missions in an hour, how many death-free gameplay hours does that equal?  On top of this, while the game doesn't track how many cops you've killed, I can tell you that the number is less than 5 in twenty hours of play, and at least 2 of those would be accidental.  I don't really care about fighting cops, and given that the game practically never tells you to go do that (it just tells you to lose your wanted level or avoid them, whatever... and I assume that's the case for much of this game since the other games seemed to be almost entirely free of that too), how can you possibly say on any level that this game is about killing cops?  Yeah, you *can*, but it isn't at all what the game is about, just like the game isn't "about" having sex with women even though you *can* get a brief little entirely-implicit scene when you hook up with a girl after a few successful dates.  The game isn't "about" eating hamburgers either, though you can buy them.  And frankly, I've purchased probably 4 or 5 times as many hamburgers and hotdogs in this game than the number of cops I've killed.

I know, it's sort of a pointless rant, but it bothers me a little.  Why aren't we concerned about actually providing real information when we talk about games?  Why is it we're so willing to just accept that there's controversy and that there are myths nobody seems to want to dispel?  The IGN guy's comment is just exemplary of that attitude.  Why do you have to make it seem as though GTA4 isn't mature?  It *is*.  The drama here is really quite good, and there are some very interesting themes about the nature of crime, American opportunity, and crime/violence begetting more crime/violence.  Don't fucking dumb it down and make it seem as though the game is an entirely sophomoric enterprise with nothing to offer an intelligent person.

I know, I know, that wasn't his point and I'm sort of arguing semantics.  But still, you get my point, right?  GTA has plenty of toilet humor and low-brow stuff that I could do without (not to mention plenty of political statements I don't agree with), but in general I think much of what's in there is written off or left unacknowledged, both by gamers and by media outlets or politicians.  There's more here than I think we're giving Rockstar credit for.  Maybe not the highest tier of social commentary, but this is more than just prostitutes, jacking cars, and killing cops.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 05:13:31 PM
Quote
And if that's not enough stupid GTA-related crap for you, here's a mostly worthless article from IGN about the possibility of GTA4 seeing a PC release, and on the PC sales of the other GTA games.
I don't think it's *that* worthless. But, I think what's important to note is the sales of the PC version declining w/ each iteration. I'll get to why later.

Quote from: Que
Here's some background information. Grand Theft Auto began on the PC, but the series didn't really explode until Grand Theft Auto III, which introduced a new 3D engine that brought you into the game rather than give you a top-down, bird's-eye view like the previous two games. GTA III shipped on PS2 on October 22, 2001.
Here's why I think it's important, Que. This is a trend that is growing, Que -- more and more PC game developers that start off supporting the PC, then they eventually decide "We'll do a console version first for our franchise PC brand, make tons of money -- oh, and then we'll port it later to the PC."

Big name PC companies, such as Bioware, have been doing a lot their RPG games first for the console, then getting them ported later to the PC -- see KOTOR, Jade Empire, and now Mass Effect. Rockstar did this with Manhunt -- consoles first, PC version a little bit later. Monolith put out Condemned first for the X360, then gave it a PC port. Epic gave Gears of War first to the X360, then gave us a PC port.

Publishers have been at it, too. Especially UbiSoft. Many of what were once originally big-time PC franchise -- such as Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six, have been recently getting first their console versions, then a PC port a little bit later.

Many game companies multi-platforming a game for PC and consoles seem to be giving their console version of the game more attention than their PC counterpart. For example, look at Ion Storm's "consolization" of Deus Ex: IW. Look at BethSoft, who have recently said that they are giving the X360 version of Fallout 3 their attention -- not a great sign for PC gamers, really. We can look at Oblivion's font in the PC version and wonder "Bethsoft, why the console-sized font? You didn't do this w/ Morrowind PC." (Thanks to BTMod for correcting that stupidity). Also, we can look at how many PC gamers have complained how the UI in PC version of UT3 was very "consolized." I mean, you know, I could go on and on...
 
And I'm gonna' bet Crytek's next game, thanks to the combo of high amounts of piracy and Crytek (for some crazy reason) deciding to make Crysis' PC vid requirement high for its time of release, Crytek is thinking of multi-platforming their franchises from now on. I really wouldn't be surprised if they eventually do console version of their games, then giving PC gamers a port later.

Quote
The PC version was announced on March 25, 2002, and shipped two months later on May 21 and according to NPD, sold more than 400,000 copies.

Grand Theft Auto: Vice City launched on PS2 on October 22, 2002. The PC version was revealed on February 14, 2003, and shipped on May 12, 2003 (The Xbox version shipped November 4, 2003 as part of a Double Pack with GTA III). NPD says Vice City sold more than 300,000 copies on PC, a slight decline.
Which probably has Rockstar and Take-Two (their publisher) thinking, "Do we really need to port the next GTA to the PC? I think many console gamers already have this game."

Quote
Finally, there's Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, which shipped for PS2 shipped on October 26, 2004. The PC game was confirmed on September 9, 2004 (before the PS2 game shipped). It came out on June 7, 2005. This was the most infamous entry in the series, as it introduced the "Hot Coffee" scandal, which forced Rockstar to withdraw all copies on the shelves and publish a new version that had the controversial material removed. San Andreas sold almost 250,000 copies on PC. These are NPD numbers for North America.
Which probably also has Rockstar thinking again, "Do we really need to port the next GTA to the PC? I think many console gamers already have this one."

Given "Hot Coffee", they also probably have to look at the mod scene and wonder, "Regardless of whether its our blocked content getting modded or some new entire 3rd party mod, could PC-modding once again cause the PC version of GTA4 to be pulled from th shelves for a bit of time?"
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 05:47:33 PM
We've heard it all before, MyD.  I'm with you on the PC not getting enough support.

But here the argument is more or less irrelevant.  Rockstar *is* a console developer and has been.  Yes, the first two games were for PC, but that was 10 years ago.  Every GTA from 3 and beyond was either completely console focused or never even got a PC port (see: the PSP/PS2 games).  We already know developers are switching, but Rockstar hardly qualifies as a big deal as they never gave the PC much attention beyond their very earliest years in the first place.  And I can see why their PC sales would decline: the PC ports of the GTA games all completely fucking suck, at least in my experience.  Fine for some, perhaps, but I've had huge problems with 3, VC, and SA on PC, and on multiple rigs at that.  Maybe IV will be better, but I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 05:56:51 PM
I'm with you on the PC not getting enough support.
Agreed.

Quote
But here the argument is more or less irrelevant.  Rockstar *is* a console developer and has been.  Yes, the first two games were for PC, but that was 10 years ago.  Every GTA from 3 and beyond was either completely console focused or never even got a PC port (see: the PSP/PS2 games).  We already know developers are switching, but Rockstar hardly qualifies as a big deal as they never gave the PC much attention beyond their very earliest years in the first place.
Bully and The Warriors were never brought to the PC, either.
 
Quote
And I can see why their PC sales would decline: the PC ports of the GTA games all completely fucking suck, at least in my experience.  Fine for some, perhaps, but I've had huge problems with 3, VC, and SA on PC, and on multiple rigs at that.  Maybe IV will be better, but I'm not holding my breath.
Yes, numerous people have had issues w/ their games on the PC. GTA3 was a disaster for many on the PC. I never had many issues w/ it (luckily), though Patch 1.01 did fix a good deal of issues.

On the other hand, I never had any trouble w/ GTA: VC, which had stiffer requirements than GTA3 -- and ran better than GTA3 did for me, on the same damn PC oddly enough! GTA: SA, never had problems w/ it at all. Though, yes -- I've seen tech boards where many have had issues w/ the VC and SA.
 
But really, if Rockstar doesn't really want to port GTA4 themselves but they still do want to have GTA4 brought to the PC, they could do what Bioware did w/ Jade Empire and Mass Effect -- contract someone else they feel is suitable to port the game over for them to the PC. It's not like Rockstar or Take-Two is lacking any money, to have such a thing done...
 
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 06:03:57 PM
Entirely a question of whether or not the money is worth it them.  But I'm quite sure GTA4 will see a PC port.  There's zero reason not to do one.  The game has scored all but perfectly everywhere, and is sure to sell a lot of copies even if VC or SA didn't sell as much.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 06:09:58 PM
Entirely a question of whether or not the money is worth it them.  But I'm quite sure GTA4 will see a PC port.  There's zero reason not to do one.
I also do think so, as well.

Quote
The game has scored all but perfectly everywhere, and is sure to sell a lot of copies even if VC or SA didn't sell as much.
I sure hope so. I like seeing GTA's ported to the PC.
I'd really hate to see it a PC version get pirated to the high heavens, as well.

I still have that other dark thought in my head, wondering: "Rockstar might be thinking they have sold so many copies of GTA4 already on the consoles, why don't they just get to work on another GTA for the consoles or go make another game for one of their IP's, instead of Rockstar themselves porting GTA4 to the PC?"



Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 06:26:16 PM
D... why the fuck wont you just buy a console, jesus christ.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 06:29:30 PM
D... why the fuck wont you just buy a console, jesus christ.
Many of the games I'm interested in are PC exclusives.
Many of the games I'm interested in either are multi-platformed for the console and PC.
Many of the console games I'm interested in eventually do get a PC port sometime later.

So, why buy a console if most of the games I want are PC bound anyways?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 06:29:50 PM
I want to type a response, but I'm afraid it'll just get another response in kind.  D, dude, it's a lot easier to port a game to another system than develop a whole new game, and it costs probably a jillionth as much.  I'm sure there will be a PC port.  Every GTA game barring the handheld ones has gotten one, I see no reason to believe this will be any different, especially with the much increased expectation of money (and the addition of multiplayer, which is always big on the PC front).

Now stop responding.  Now.  Stop.  We've beaten this topic to death.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 06:41:03 PM
I want to type a response, but I'm afraid it'll just get another response in kind.  D, dude, it's a lot easier to port a game to another system than develop a whole new game, and it costs probably a jillionth as much.
Point taken.

Quote
I'm sure there will be a PC port.  Every GTA game barring the handheld ones has gotten one, I see no reason to believe this will be any different, especially with the much increased expectation of money (and the addition of multiplayer, which is always big on the PC front).

Now stop responding.  Now.  Stop.  We've beaten this topic to death.
Interesting you mention handheld-to-PC ports; dunno' if I seen any, in recent years.

I mean, the PSP versions of GTA made their ways to the PS2.
Also, I saw recently that the handheld SH: Origins got ported to the PS2.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: K-man on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 06:56:51 PM
The one gripe I have about the game is going in and out of cover mode.  I haven't found a button that takes me in and out of it flawlessly ala Gears of War.  It always ends up being rather awkward, and I usually end up losing health because of it.

This engine is incredibly awesome.  Aside from a few instances, it basically perfects what we can accomplish today.  It's one of those games that does what it does so well, you begin to want to expect more out of it.  The game's essentially so good you become all that much more critical about its shortcomings.

Like why can't I go into every building?
Why when I run over an open car door does it not fly off?
Why can't i manipulate any of the objects in my apartment or on the street?

Maybe it's just me.  It's just that games like this make me expect more out of games as a whole.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, May 04, 2008, 07:06:06 PM
Yeah, this has a way of doing that.  I agree with you completely on the cover, too.  It works, and in architecturally simple circumstances it's just fine, but it can be really finicky in the wrong instances and seems like it could have been done better.  Still, it works, and the combat system is way, way better than the previous games, I think.

I'm happy with the engine, with caveats.  The shadows fucking suck and they make stuff look blurred out and weird.  Collision detection isn't quite what it should be (okay, that's kind of a lame complaint).  I wish the traffic spawning had changed from previous GTA games, but it seems virtually the same, meaning a place can be entirely empty, then you turn around and suddenly it's filled with stuff.  Though it doesn't seem quite as bad as the other games... I think they've made it more consistent.  Just wish they'd have come up with a new system.

Story is getting awesome, too.  I'm so into this game it's pathetic.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, May 05, 2008, 10:57:29 PM
Or at least I was so into it until I got a hard lockup at 30 hours in.  Fuck this shit.  Rockstar had better address this soon, and I better not fucking lose my progress.  If I have to start this over at 30 hours, I'll just stop playing.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, May 06, 2008, 09:00:15 AM
That's a real shame.  I have yet to have a hard lockup, though I did have that forever loading screen once.  If I were to grade the game on technical merit, I'd give it a low B.  I know they could have done a noticeably better job.

Check out the google map for Liberty City (http://grandtheftauto.ign.com/maps/1/Liberty-City-Map).  (Maybe not really google map.  It uses their application.)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, May 06, 2008, 09:25:54 AM
Heh, that's pretty cool.

I didn't lose much progress, and it seems okay again today.  Who knows.  I turned off my internet connection just in case, though, since some people think that's what's causing freezes.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: iPPi on Tuesday, May 06, 2008, 10:00:46 AM
I've had my game freeze a handful of times, usually just when I just start playing.  Basically, the game will load and I'll be in my safehouse and before I can leave it the game will freeze. 
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Tuesday, May 06, 2008, 11:45:32 AM
That map will be great once the pigeons show up on it. Until then, all the other stuff is more conveniently found in game.

No freezes here yet, but I did hit a hard as hell mission that caused me to quit for the day. It won't go into it too much, but it involved Packie and a lot of guns.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, May 06, 2008, 12:10:42 PM
I checked torrents of this game's disc image, and they're close to 7 GB.  That makes it a dual-layer DVD on the 360, which may explain the readability problems some people are having with that.  A dirty or worn (or shitty) DVD drive will have more trouble with those.  It doesn't explain anything on the PS3, though.

[Edit:  I found this excerpt from the Giantbomb review (http://www.giantbomb.com/2008/05/05/niko-bellic-a-real-american-anti-hero/) to support my thoughts on 360 performance]
Quote
The 360 version’s loading and streaming is entirely dependent on the quality of your hardware’s DVD drive. On one system, I had no problems, the loading seemed perfectly snappy, and it generally wasn’t a thing. On the Xbox 360 Elite I have at home, though, I could hear the disc thrashing about as it tried to load, and occasionally objects and roads would appear a second or two too late, causing me to ram my car into invisible objects, in one case. Thankfully, I had another 360 at my disposal, but if your drive is already a little iffy, just know that you might run into some occasional streaming issues.
[End edit]

Who relates / aspires to stealing cars and killing people? Is this guy nuts?

To be fair to him, I really don't think that's what he meant.  Aspiring to power and money under adverse circumstance makes sense.  Stealing and killing may come with the territory, and with most of us, that will stop the aspirations dead in their tracks.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, May 07, 2008, 02:13:06 PM
PS3 version patched (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/52556).

According to developer Rockstar, the update "prevents Gamespy's servers from being overloaded and therefore reduces the impact on those servers that were causing the game to stutter and lock up."
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Wednesday, May 07, 2008, 02:17:48 PM
My favorite part was when the game locked up and then when I restarted the 360 I got the RROD.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, May 07, 2008, 02:20:33 PM
My favorite part was when the game locked up and then when I restarted the 360 I got the RROD.

That was my favorite part of Mass Effect.   :P

Idol, you just beat me to it.  I think it may be just what Que needs.  His lockup is supposed to be internet-related.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, May 07, 2008, 03:38:58 PM
My favorite part was when the game locked up and then when I restarted the 360 I got the RROD.

That was my favorite part of Mass Effect.   :P

...Idol, you just beat me to it.  I think it may be just what Que needs.  His lockup is supposed to be internet-related
Hell, Mass Effect PC will have something (somewhat) similar to let the game lock up...it's called SecuROM. :P
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, May 07, 2008, 06:21:19 PM
Awesome on top of awesome.  I'm grabbing it shortly.

Anyone with a PS3 for some MP?  I have to tell you, I haven't had anywhere near this much fun with a deathmatch game in a long time.  It sort of sucks on some levels because it can be a little difficult to gain momentum, and it isn't all that fun to die repeatedly, but if you get on a roll it's an absolute blast (I've been either in 1st or 2nd most DM games I've tried, though considerably lower in pretty much all other modes because I don't understand what I'm supposed to do half the time, heh), and so much crazy stuff happens that's just pure comedy.  It's gold.  Even if it was just DM I think I could spend a pretty good chunk of time just goofing around with it, but there's a ton of other stuff too.

Anyway, I hope this fixes my issue.  It hasn't cropped up again yet, so we'll see.

EDIT - So I think I'm starting to get a little sick of this game.  It isn't really because I'm tired of it, it's more that... I guess that I don't feel like this is a pick up and play game for me at all.  I find when I only have a couple of hours, I just don't want to even get invested.  It's only when I've got like 4 hours of solid time at least that I actually want to boot it up.  I'm not entirely sure why that is.  I mean, games in general tend to be that way for me, but usually I don't need quite such a big block of time in order to want to make the effort.

I think this is partially a problem with how many really good portable games I've been playing.  I don't really *ever* have to leave off with those.  I just pick them up, play a little while, and even if I have to go to bed in an hour, I can play the thing on my way to work in the morning, on my breaks, whatever.  But for something like this, I have to abandon it entirely for a fairly substantial period, and for some reason that throws me when I'm playing a game in which my primary consideration is to be immersed.  A couple hours just doesn't cut it.

So yeah, I guess I'm just entirely neurotic.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 12:41:25 AM
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I'm having some issues too--the same I've had with every GTA.  I don't want to repeat long fucking sequences because I make a mistake, or because I don't know coming in how devious a mission is going to be.  I want to save right when it gets started, and I mean the instant before everyone pulls out their guns.  I don't want to lose and then wake up by a hospital and have to go find more ammo and body armor, or if I decide to load my last save, in an apartment across town from the mission.  I don't want to drive to the NPC's house again and talk to him again, even if I can skip the conversation (which thankfully I can).  I don't want to have to steal another car that I'm going to lose during the mission (and so I refuse to risk the fancy ones in the saved parking spot).  I want to pull my hair out every time things go wrong, and as the missions get harder, they go wrong more often.  I thought this mechanic sucked in 3, VC and SA.  It has survived all those games to suck in IV.

I've completed close to 30 missions, and I still can't go anywhere that I couldn't go when the game started.  I'm determined to open up the rest of the map, but right now, I'm not enjoying it.  I quit in frustration, and that is the worst feeling.  It won't subside anything like soon enough.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 01:12:32 AM
Wait, what?  How have you not unlocked anything yet?  By now I feel like you should have unlocked everything but the last island, unless you're moving an awful lot slower than I think you are.

I agree with you though, I've always hated having to redo stuff.  So many reviews have mentioned how great it is that you can just retry a mission from your phone, but I don't feel like it's all that different.  Most missions require a ton of driving to get to even from the front door of the person who gave it to you to wherever the actual mission is, so while you might be saving a good bit of time for certain missions, with others you often aren't saving the bulk of it.  And healthcare is fucking expensive.  I've lost pretty large chunks of cash on a couple of the harder missions where I couldn't figure out exactly how I was supposed to do something.  Combine that with the cost of buying armor and maybe weapons (personally I've had no need to ever purchase a single weapon, nor any ammo... I've got lots because I'm anal about trying to pick up what enemies drop), you're potentially looking at losing like 2 to 4 grand per failure.  So yeah, that shit can get pretty annoying pretty quick when you hit something that's difficult.

Fortunately for me not too much has been that difficult.  There are a few spots that have been a little rough, but for the most part stuff has been doable.  I just had to think outside the box a bit on some of the tougher missions (though improvisation in this game can go from good idea to body bag pretty damned quick, which just adds to the frustration at times when you aren't seeing a more basic solution that's actually there).

All in all I'm still loving it.  It definitely doesn't stray so far from the previous GTA games in a lot of ways, but I think one big advantage here is that the story actually makes the missions worth playing.  I always sort of gave up on the other ones once I'd unlocked all the city areas, because then I had the huge playground and didn't have to bother with missions or a boring story.  With IV, though, I really want to know what's going to happen to Niko and it's really engaged me that way.  The few bumps in the road I've encountered haven't deterred me from that end, and whenever I do get fed up with something, hopping on to play a few rounds of deathmatch eases that right then and there.

Hopefully you can figure out what's causing most of your troubles and rectify it, Cobra, or maybe find some alternative extra stuff in the game that might make your situation easier (does killing pigeons unlock bonus stuff at your safehouse like the other games did with the hidden packages?).  Don't be afraid to just walk away from something, either.  Sometimes when I lose I just get mad and say fuck it, then do a job for Jacob (can give you a small amount of cash and free ammo if you run into a rival gang during the mission), or win a race from Brucie, date my girl (the lawyer - she'll let you get rid of the cops instantly once a day if you call her), whatever.  That can be a help.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 10:33:07 AM
Honestly, I have to face up to the fact that I'm not as good at the visceral stuff in games as I used to be.  Reflexes are one possibility, but a greater contributor might be a loss of intensity or focus on my part.  It doesn't get my blood up like it used to.  Age?  Other things in my subconscious?  Don't know.

There is good stuff hidden around all over the place, as in previous games in the series.  It takes a lot of exploring to find, which as I've said, is how I spend most of the time in games like this.  I like to look everywhere I can reach.  Once you start finding it, it gets easier, which makes it all the more frustrating that the missions get tough for me.  I've found body armor (fills the rest of the circle around the radar/map in blue), a better submachine gun than that Uzi you buy early on, a shotgun, an AK47 and molotov cocktails.

The mission which had me turn off the system in disgust had me getting chased and continually pelted by lead no matter what I did with the car.  They were always right there.  Every time I tried to turn around to fire, something would go wrong.  The camera would end up showing my left ear, or they'd pile into me and keep shooting.  I couldn't do one fucking thing to even know which end was up.  Car went up in flames, and the new long and annoying process of getting out of a moving car went on too long.  It was late, and I should have quit before even starting.  I'll hopefully do better at it today.

Edit:  Heh.  It's done.  The hell with trying to drive with your targets behind you.  Get out of the car, duck somewhere, and let them have it with the Kalashnikov.  Works wonders.  There were 3 cars chasing me.  No wonder.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 05:21:41 PM
Quote from: Que
EDIT - So I think I'm starting to get a little sick of this game.  It isn't really because I'm tired of it, it's more that... I guess that I don't feel like this is a pick up and play game for me at all.  I find when I only have a couple of hours, I just don't want to even get invested.  It's only when I've got like 4 hours of solid time at least that I actually want to boot it up.  I'm not entirely sure why that is.  I mean, games in general tend to be that way for me, but usually I don't need quite such a big block of time in order to want to make the effort.
I think that's b/c of the way GTA Series is designed.

No Quicksave
Without being able to quicksave the game at any time you absolutely feel like, this is why it is not a game you can really play little by little. It's not like Oblivion where you have this huge world and you can just save whenever and wherever; even if you're in the midst of a quest or not. Games w/ quicksaves are easy for me to do the pick-up-and-play for a short time period thing -- and GTA games just were never one of those kind of games.

Safehouses / Save Points
To get more save points in GTA opened-up, you have to actually earn them -- whether it's by somehow earning enough money however you can to buy another safehouse somewhere on the gameworld or by finishing some sort of key mission to the game to earn the safehouse.

With not too many save points opened-up, you'll be riding around a lot to eventually get to your savepoint. And in that meantime, you'll often either wind up doing a mission on your way to get back to a save point or messing around in the gameworld until you actually make it back to the save point.

I'm sure w/ the new fast-travelling in GTA4, that has to help this issue a little bit, at least somewhat.

Missions
Many missions in the GTA games have multiple pieces. If you fail, you are not given an autosave for finishing a part of a mission -- so that if you fail it, you can pick up from one of the autosave that is at an important keypoint in the mission (which actually Freelancer does and is a good feature for this kind of game). If you fail any part of a mission, you normally have to restart the entire mission completely. That is very annoying -- especially since some of the GTA missions can be quite long, too.

And w/ GTA, often, if I fail a mission, I'll either try it again and again numerous times until I get it right, try some other mission. And even if I get frustrated w/ failing main missions, that eventually just leads me to messing around in the city, doing whatever else I feel like in the gameworld. And that, I can easily get lost in for a good while.

Messing Around
Sometimes, I can just put GTA on not to do any really do any missions, but just ride around and mess around in the gameworld for a while. I can get lost in that for some time, myself.

Quote
I think this is partially a problem with how many really good portable games I've been playing.  I don't really *ever* have to leave off with those.  I just pick them up, play a little while, and even if I have to go to bed in an hour, I can play the thing on my way to work in the morning, on my breaks, whatever.  But for something like this, I have to abandon it entirely for a fairly substantial period, and for some reason that throws me when I'm playing a game in which my primary consideration is to be immersed.  A couple hours just doesn't cut it.

So yeah, I guess I'm just entirely neurotic.  Oh well.
No, I don't think it's neurotic. I just think that GTA is a game series w/ the way it's designed; this is really not something designed for you play for say 20 mins. It's an addictive time sink that goes on for hours before you decide to shut it down, most of the time.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 06:45:53 PM
I don't think the fast traveling is nearly as useful as it sounds.  I know the trains aren't going to save me any time.  I still need to get to and from them, and I'm going to be without a car at my destination until I steal one.  The taxis I don't think would be much better, though I have yet to try them at all.  I would love a checkpoint system in the missions.

I'm finally in Manhattan.  Yay!  I was only one mission away, and the one I was griping about wasn't from the right NPC.  I am very impressed with downtown NYC, er, LC.  I guess it's back to the love side of this schizo relationship.  I did a fun mission downtown too, which I lost the first time.  I got rushed, and discovered I can't shoot when 3 guys are holding on to me.  I'm wondering if I can swim to the Statue of Happiness.  I have yet to find any boats in this game.  (Are there any?)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 06:53:48 PM
It's funny how different our experiences have been, Cobra. One of the first things I did when I could was grab a cab and just go riding around.  It's a great way to just see some of the city... just watch it float on by as you ride.  Also, you can instantly travel to whatever destination you select in the cab by paying a couple extra bucks.  It's super great if you're not wanting to make a long drive.  Set a waypoint, hail a cab, hop in, select waypoint, then select fast travel.  Bam, you can be at the other end of the city in 2 seconds.  Also, it's worth trying one of Roman's cabs if you get a chance.  I will bet you 10 bucks you won't be able to resist shotgunning the guy after he drops you off.

And yes, there are a number of different kinds of boats.  I had a great time with my first one.  It was sort of a small yacht type thing, and I actually swam at it and outran it by cutting it off at an angle, and then I got on board and started messing with the guy driving.  He was yelling at me, but I didn't realize I was supposed to hit triangle to get in the driver's seat and throw him out.  So I just shot him.  Oops!  Took the thing for a spin around the island... man, there are some really, really nice water effects in this game.  They just look very natural and unobtrusive.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 07:00:42 PM
Man, looking at the GTA4 box is so awesome.  :(
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 07:19:12 PM
Scott, I just went through your woes, so trust me, I feel your pain.  I didn't have a brand new GTA game waiting for me, though.

I guess I've ignored cab rides long enough.  One time I called Roman to send me one of his free ones, but then it just drove past me.  I chased it, but it got away.  It struck me as funny, and I never tried it again.  Shotgun the driver?  Is he that much of a pain in the ass?

I imagine triangle is the same as Y.   It's the top face button, and Y gets you in and out of most things.  I want a boat!  I also heard that I can pilot a helicopter at some point.  That will be a new experience.  Planes were a blast in SA.

You know what else is impressive are the cabaret and comedy routines.  The 3D animation is superb, and the performances look very natural.  Just standing at a busy intersection downtown and watching all the happenings is entertaining.  I get strong deja vu feelings at times, with the last one being that long, wide walkway by the river, straight as an arrow.  I've was on the real one when I went to Manhattan to see Ground Zero a few years ago.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 07:26:57 PM
I've never been to New York, so it's all new to me.  I've actually never really been to the east coast.  New Orleans is as far over as I've ever gotten.  Place reminds me plenty of San Francisco and Oakland at times, though.

And yeah, the cabaret and comedy stuff is pretty great.  The amount of just random stuff in here amazes me... not so much just because it's there, but because there's so much and because all of it is fully voiced and feels just as polished as the most story-centric, necessary parts of the game.  I'm dating a girl, and she's just some random side thing I could have avoided entirely if I wanted to, yet the three times we've been out she's had new audio conversation for me that gives me insight into her character.  It's incredible.

EDIT - It's about 10:30 at night in the game now, and it's raining heavily.  I'm in a cab, just watching the city go by (I didn't even tell the guy to hurry).  I love rain as you all know, and the city at night is my favorite time for it... lights reflecting everything, slick streets, people running for cover.  And it's great to see the experience here in the game as robust as I could want it.  It's moments like this that make open-world games such an amazing thing.  It isn't about just being open, it's about experiencing games in a different way entirely.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Thursday, May 08, 2008, 11:47:38 PM
Cobra, definitely et cabs. Roman's are worth it a few times for the driver but once you're past that just hail regular ones down. You can skip the driving part and get anywhere in the city within two or three seconds; absolutely great when the driving gets monotonous.

Myd, you can save anywhere in GTAIV. When you start the game again you start at your safehouse and have to get to the mission again but that can be accomplished within a few seconds thanks to cabs. You can't pick up the mission where you left off but that's not a big deal since most of them are so short anyways.

I haven't bothered much with searching for ammo and items. I just buy them whenever I'm low, there's nothing else to do with money so why not? Finding the pigeons is ridiculous. I'm about 15 hours in and I've gotten three so far.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, May 09, 2008, 03:59:28 AM
*sigh* More GTA frustration.

Well I finished the game... after the final mission I get a call from Roman... oh wait... I was getting in my car while he was calling! Oops... guess ill never get to find out what a crucial character is going to tell me about the final events in the game...

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, May 09, 2008, 10:20:42 AM
I would be a lot of money that an accurate transcript of that call is out on some FAQ or walkthrough somewhere.

I finally grabbed a boat, and spent over a half hour just cruising the waterways.  In first-person view, it was outstanding.  I can't take that for very long.  Vertigo becomes an issue, especially when the boat starts to bounce over the waves.  What a great experience, though.  It started out at night, then dawn illuminated Manhattan like a spotlight.  I'm so glad the radio now works on just about everything, without the intentional quality degradation from SA.  Listening to jazzy stuff made it even better.  The only low point was when I guess I wandered too close to New Jersey, and suddenly I had a big wanted circle.  Fortunately, there weren't any boys in blue anywhere near me on the water, though all these police cars were running around on the coast and bridges.

Obviously, I've missed out on a very helpful game mechanic with the cabs.  I don't even think about them.  Even after hearing about them a few posts up, I didn't pay attention in the game.  If I can really get there in a couple of seconds, it would be the thing to do when reloading saves after a blown mission.  The only compelling reason for me to reload instead of retry is the body armor, sometimes ammo.  Chasing supplies down takes a lot more time.  I guess the cabs make that even more of a no-brainer.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Friday, May 09, 2008, 11:37:14 AM
*sigh* More GTA frustration.

Well I finished the game... after the final mission I get a call from Roman... oh wait... I was getting in my car while he was calling! Oops... guess ill never get to find out what a crucial character is going to tell me about the final events in the game...



Check the briefs?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Friday, May 09, 2008, 11:51:22 AM
I don't think I'd like the cabs.  One of the challenges of the game was getting someplace without getting arrested.  I don't want to say it was never frustrating, but I know several times I'd be on my way someplace when I'd accidentally flip my car or something and have to get a new one and then the cops would see me and chase me.  It's part of the game for me, and since driving is the best part I don't want to miss it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, May 09, 2008, 11:58:59 AM
Same here.  Getting around myself is the vast majority of the game for me.  I don't want to skip it.  But if I'm repeating something because I'm not given a better choice (like mission checkpoints) then I want to get past the perfunctory stuff as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, May 09, 2008, 04:31:55 PM
Christ.  I got a helicopter.  From the top of the Getalife building:

(http://home.cinci.rr.com/jgoods/images/gtaroof.jpg)

Awesome beyond belief.

Edit:  Oh, that was weird.  I stole this chopper, and while I was flying, I got an invitation . . .

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, May 09, 2008, 06:26:51 PM
The cabs are fine.  You do a *lot* of driving in this game when you consider how much you have to do for the little "hey dude, let's hang out" shit.  You'll probably even get sick of it from time to time because you'll have to drive all the way from the middle island to the furthest reaches of another one just to pick someone up, then where you want to go might be back on the other island again.  It gets pretty annoying if you're spending much time trying to keep relationships up.  Frankly, that mechanic needs work.  It's a totally awesome addition to the game and I'm very glad it's there, but you shouldn't lose ground with people every time you have to turn them down, nor should they require as much attention as they do.  It's one thing with the girlfriends since they're supposed to be a little needy and stuff, but everyone else needs to chill the fuck out and stop calling me.  I want to hang out with them, but I don't necessarily feel like driving for a half hour to do it.  And the problem with cabs in that case is that a cab ride may not be fast enough to get to where your friend is since you have to do it within an in-game hour.  So you pretty much have to drive.

So yeah, trust me, you'll use the cabs at some point.  If you don't, you either wish GTA was just a racing game, in which case you should buy Burnout Paradise, or you have a lot more time than I do.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, May 09, 2008, 07:26:40 PM
I am starting to get more thumbs down from the characters.  I try not to ignore any one of them more than twice in a row, but frankly, I wish I could just turn that off entirely.  (Turning off the phone doesn't stop them from trying, and you find out later you lost more friendship points, or whatever they are.)  I'm hovering over the Hudson and I get a call to go out drinking.  "I'm kind of in the middle of something."  Good choice of words, Niko.  Now I can land the chopper on any street, though.  Can I take Michelle up in it?  :)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, May 09, 2008, 08:25:07 PM
Heh, I never took her up in it, but I did take Roman out to eat via copter a bit ago.  That was pretty amusing (though he didn't acknowledge the copter... a shame!).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Friday, May 09, 2008, 10:19:39 PM
I took another girl on a date in a helicopter. Not a helitour, but in a helicopter I liberated so we could go grab a burger. She didn't acknowledge it unfortunately. So far, the best acknowledgment of the vehicle I used picked someone up for an outing was Roman.

"I think you like these motorcycles because I have to get close to you." That's not an exact quote, but you get the idea.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Friday, May 09, 2008, 10:31:07 PM
Well, you have to give them points for realism. I gave a girl a lift on a helicopter once and all she did was scream. Not one mention of the kick ass ride...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, May 09, 2008, 11:50:45 PM
Heh, yeah, they all seem to recognize bikes.  Jacob seems to like them quite a bit, actually.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Saturday, May 10, 2008, 12:39:31 AM
I don't know if it's just my imagination, but it feels like there has been a lot more pop-in during my last couple sessions. All I can think of is that the patch is the only thing that has changed in the past few days. Any other PS3ers notice the same thing?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, May 10, 2008, 01:48:09 AM
It seems to vary a whole lot.  I've noticed it come and go as I've played.  I don't think they changed anything in that regard.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, May 10, 2008, 02:50:22 AM
Well I finished it. I beat it again just a minute ago to see the alternate ending. Just so you guys know, I recommend keeping a backup save handy so you can go back and see them both. Other than that I obviously wont say anything else about the ending. I can just say that I was satisfied and it made sense to me. 

So yea, after it all is finished I have to say that all the glowing reviews are justified. Sure its arguable that maybe it shouldnt have rated so ridiculously high, but if you cant score the game a 9.9, then you can at least agree its in the 9s. There are lots of little things I can point out and go on for a good while that I found particular and questionable, but its all totally eclipsed by everything else. When I first started the game, it didnt immediately seize my attention. It was really just a pretty GTA, but as I progressed, its mostly the little details that you start to notice, then more of the story starts to take shape, by that point its hard to stop. Its the most refined GTA, wrapped around a fantastic story. The biggest strength is the way its carries the relationships throughout the game. Few games with characters carry such personality as this. Niko Bellic is like one the most memorable characters out of this generation of games, if not THE most memorable one.

So finish the game! So we can talk about it.  :)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, May 10, 2008, 11:21:10 AM
I'm working on it!  The game says I'm about 50% done now after 37 hours.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Saturday, May 10, 2008, 11:25:13 AM
I can't believe you beat it already Pyro.  It always took me at least a month.  I always spent hours and hours just stirring up trouble or doing cop missions or stuff like that.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, May 10, 2008, 01:51:50 PM
I'm at less than 30%, with over 40 hours into it.  That reflects how I enjoy these games, though, rather than saying it's a 150-hour game.  I think there's an achievement for finishing it in under 30 hours, which to me is ridiculous.  Achievements should not encourage blowing past all the finer points of the game.  Finer points like:

I was indulging in my latest obsession with helicopter flying when I get a call from Brucie.  He needed a lift.  So I went and picked him up in the copter.  No horn, so I get out, and walk to him.  Then he follows me back and jumps in.  We take off, and he has the usual kind of car conversation with me on the flight.  The place I had to drop him off was tight, under some trees, by some telephone poles.  I set down very carefully, but still drew sparks from stuff around.  He gets off, and I take off.

Next, Michelle calls.  I go pick her up, no problem.  She sprints over as usual.  I take her to the comedy club downtown, and that nose on the building sticks out too far.  I'm rattling against it with the blades, and I can't quite get to the 'V' indicator.  So I force it.  We get out of the thing just as the blades disingtegrate.  The copter is till sitting there, just no blades.  We go in, watch the routine and come back out.  Now I need transportation.  I try hailing a cab. but they're all full.  So I go across the intersection where a couple is waiting in their car for the light.  I pull the guy out of the driver's seat, and Michelle pulls the woman out the passenger side and throws her to the street.  Off we go.  As we're crossing the bridge, she says "you drive like a gangster".  She still lets me in to her apartment after all that.

On the infuriating side of the experience, I'm now trying to tackle this mission where I go into a place to kill a lot of guys, then have to get out the same and only way, through waves of SWAT.  It sucks.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, May 10, 2008, 02:11:35 PM
Yeah Cobra, I hated that one.  Took me like 4 tries until I figured out that yes, you can actually kill all the guys and come out okay.  I tried various methods of escape before that and failed all of them, but if you blow through the guys you'll get a clear break before another wave comes.  But it's hard as nails to escape the cops once helicopters are involved.  But it's doable... you'll get it.  I find most of the game's frustration is tied to a few really tough missions, most of the others are okay... you just have to suffer through the tough ones.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, May 11, 2008, 04:47:22 PM
I did it!  I got through it.

(click to show/hide)


That's the hardest one so far.  I have a feeling it won't stay that way.

Coca Cola's GTA nod. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7wt5FiZQrgM&feature=related)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, May 11, 2008, 05:39:22 PM
Heh, that ad is an oldie now.  It's funny that it actually looks more like GTA4 than it does the other games, though.  I hadn't noticed it until watching it now.

But yeah, that mission was a pain.  You did it very differently than I did.  There are definitely some tough missions after that one, but I think that's the one that's pissed me off the most so far just because I wasn't sure if I was doing it "right".  I just got through another tough one that, sadly, I lost several times due to babysitting issues, until I learned that it was better to just storm through ahead of my cohorts and take on all the guys myself, which wasn't actually that tough.  So it turned out cool.

The game, at least, has one nice feature that some may not notice up front: when you fail a mission and retry it (retry, not load a save), if you're driving from the start point with a character to another place, any conversation they have will vary.  In other words, if you start a mission, hop in a car, and drive with some dude to another location while having a conversation, then get to the location and die, if you retry the mission you'll find that the conversation in the car will be different from what it was the first time.  I'm pretty sure I heard up to three different conversations when repeating one mission, and after that nobody talked anymore... they just shut up and we listened to the radio instead.  It's a pretty nice touch, and it just goes to show the sheer ridiculous volume of recorded dialogue that's in this game.  It's pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Sunday, May 11, 2008, 09:39:31 PM
The game, at least, has one nice feature that some may not notice up front: when you fail a mission and retry it (retry, not load a save), if you're driving from the start point with a character to another place, any conversation they have will vary.  In other words, if you start a mission, hop in a car, and drive with some dude to another location while having a conversation, then get to the location and die, if you retry the mission you'll find that the conversation in the car will be different from what it was the first time.  I'm pretty sure I heard up to three different conversations when repeating one mission, and after that nobody talked anymore... they just shut up and we listened to the radio instead.  It's a pretty nice touch, and it just goes to show the sheer ridiculous volume of recorded dialogue that's in this game.  It's pretty amazing.

That's awesome. There's nothing worse than repeating a mission over and over and by the 5th time after hearing the same thing all you want to do is yell at the people to shut the fuck up.
/me goes back to reading about how awesome this game is while not actually playing it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: iPPi on Sunday, May 11, 2008, 10:48:05 PM
I'm no where near as far as you guys are, but I finally opened up the middle section of the city, which is downtown I believe.  I didn't even realized I opened it as I checked it a mission before and still saw the roadblocks, and then I completed the mission
(click to show/hide)
and the next thing I know I'm driving this guy downtown across the bridge.

Anyway, still having a blast.  The small details in the game is what makes it shine.  Trashing a car enough that the engine dies, for example, is something that's happened once or twice... thankfully never when I'm on a mission though.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, May 12, 2008, 12:04:22 AM
HELP!  I CAN'T STOP PLAYING this damn game!

Yes, driving that guy home, following the route, following, then you realize you're headed over the bridge into downtown.  YES!  Finally!  I'm much less interested in Alderney (NJ).

I'm having a lot more fun with the combat now, even when the cover mechanic doesn't work quite right.  They've done a super job with that overall.

I'm dating a character now with the most useful ability yet.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, May 12, 2008, 01:31:13 AM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, May 12, 2008, 11:36:59 AM
Ah.  I was not aware of limitations.  Thanks.

I'm expecting too much out of the game now.  I'm getting annoyed by the rudimentary behavior of the traffic AI.  Sometimes I just want to drive around sedately, keep a nice car from getting banged up, but it's near impossible in the city.  If I get boxed in at a light, someone will ram me, and most of the time it seems to be a cop that does it.  Then he wants to bust me because he wrecked my rear end.  So I have to plow my way out of there.  Nice touch (not).  Then there's all the aimless sudden lane changes, sometimes directly into your fender.  I went on a date to a restaurant, in a helicopter.  Parked it in the street.  Afterwards, I'm trying to climb into it, but cars keep ramming it around.  It was funny and annoying at the same time, seeing this big helicopter get shoved for several yards every which way by multiple cars.  They weren't hitting the brakes from too fast a speed, as in Crackdown.  Oh no.  They were coming around the bend and gunning the gas directly into it.  Eventually, one of those minivan taxis knocked the chopper on its side.  So I went up to it, punched the guy and stole the cab as my date got in the back seat.  The whole time, we were having the casual after-dinner conversation.  Haha!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: wizall on Monday, May 12, 2008, 03:33:54 PM
You guys are further along than I am.  I'm moderately stuck at a mission right now (four retries):

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, May 12, 2008, 03:37:52 PM
(click to show/hide)
 

You should learn the bikes anyway.  Find a fast one.  Use straight line acceleration to compensate for lousy handling.  Careful on the brakes.  They all skid if you jam the brakes.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, May 12, 2008, 07:34:25 PM
I love the bikes like crazy.  It kind of sucks when you ram into something and go flying 40 feet, but that doesn't happen very often once you get decent at it, and the comedy value makes up for the annoyance, heh.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ScaryTooth on Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 01:03:40 PM
I was flying down the road on a crotch rocket. Hit a car and went flying in the air, and landed on an old lady killing her. I laughed my ass off.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 01:33:14 PM
That's really funny.  :D  I haven't messed with civilians a whole lot.  I've run over people who won't react to my horn.  One time Brucie got plowed by a car as he followed me across the street.  Flat and motionless on the pavement.  I thought I was looking at loading my last save, but he just got up and started talking casually again.  That cracked me up.  I like all the different reactions when you pull people out of their cars.  I finally got to see someone hanging on to the door as I sped away.  Most of them don't want to fight.

Last night seemed like one frustration after another.  One too many AI idiocies got me into a bad mood.  In particular, someone turning left across my path right in freaking front of me sent the car careening like a pinball on the sidewalk between the parked cars and the wall.  I'm so sick of that ill-programmed shit.  Where are the Sherman tanks in this game?  Then as I'm still fuming about that, I get into this mission where my hands somehow become lethal weapons, at exactly the wrong time.

(click to show/hide)

I hope I live long enough to see this game played on an emulator, with save states.  Fuck.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 01:41:07 PM
Heh, its fun to mess with trainers in the GTA3 series games on PC. One option sets your car to weigh...whatever the max weight is. You need to couple this with making your car indestructible since going over the littlest bumps will wreck the thing from bottoming out. But once you get it going, nothing stops the car. Other cars just smash and go flying.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 01:45:31 PM
Honestly, I don't know why I'm being so stubborn about cheating.  It's not like I really care about achievements.  I could have aced that mission by dialing a cheat number on the cell phone which restores all health.  I'm being too pig-headed for my own good.  Frustration is like the polar opposite of fun, and games are supposed to be about fun.  Whatever.  If I cheat now, it will all have been for naught.  I am very tempted at times.

You can spawn some entertaining vehicles with the phone too.  :)  Maybe what I need to do is start a 2nd game just for cheating my ass off, and relieving the stress.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 03:38:01 PM
I never cheated in the GTA games.  Honestly, I didn't even know you could.  It's always been one of the games where I don't mind a challenge even if it's sometimes ridiculously hard.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 04:47:35 PM
My hangup is more with repetition of preliminaries than with the mission proper.  I like the combat more now than ever.  In IV, you can choose to redo a mission, but you'll be minus the body armor and ammo you expended the previous time.  Having to go find those more than negates the time saved by skipping the trip over to the mission start point.  Better to load the previous save, and be fully outfitted.  A checkpoint system would be perfect, but Rockstar have hung on to this punishing save system since at least 3 games ago.  One improvement is autosave after any significant accomplishment, like a completed mission or outing with an NPC.  That does help a bit.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 09:43:01 PM
Here's a slideshow showing the similarities of Liberty City to New York City. Cool stuff.  (http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewj/sets/72157604988911230/show/)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 09:59:03 PM
That's actually pretty cool.  I didn't realize quite how much was in there.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, May 14, 2008, 12:43:06 AM
I'm wondering what that polygonal glass building is.  I don't remember ever seeing the real one.

Ever try to wreck a Turismo?  It's impossible!  The engine is behind you, and I guess the game doesn't care how much you deform the front end.  I was bashing everything in sight, full speed, head on.  I had 2 wheels at funny angles and a bit of smoke, but it just kept going.  Also, cops only care if you hit them directly.  You can pile other cars into them all you want.  Sheer mayhem all around, and they just sit there and take it.

Plow together a big pile of cars you wrecked, and then toss a grenade into the heap.  Ooh!  Nice fireworks.  You'll have to bolt out of there afterwards, though.

Edit: ZP GTA IV review. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/4902-Zero-Punctuation-Grand-Theft-Auto-IV)  Not too funny this time, because he actually likes it.  His negatives I generally agree with.  In particular, the social outing crap gets very tedious if you're in this for the long haul.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, May 14, 2008, 02:33:12 PM
Quote
Edit: ZP GTA IV review.  Not too funny this time, because he actually likes it.  His negatives I generally agree with.  In particular, the social outing crap gets very tedious if you're in this for the long haul.
LOL @ the remark of Niko looking like he was one of the characters in Half-Life 2.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, May 14, 2008, 11:55:35 PM
Well done with exception of the PS3 control bashing.  I still like the PS3 controls better (and all the sixaxis stuff is completely optional... it's even turned off by default), plus the streaming is supposed to be superior thanks to the install to the hard drive.  And the multiplayer is free, though he didn't even mention the multiplayer, which seems like an odd oversight.  I can think of any number of things he could have bitched about there (though I do enjoy it immensely, there are some areas it could use some work).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, May 15, 2008, 03:01:54 AM
Jesus, 3-Leaf Clover . . .

(click to show/hide)

I figured the comment about the PS3 version would get your dander up.  I'm curious to see it in action on the PS3.  The HDD install has to help.  During the very long time I've spent on the game, it has frozen for several seconds twice, both times in the same dense area downtown, as I was making a turn.  I haven't had any other major hitches like that, and no more session-ending lockups after the one I mentioned before (where it never came back from a loading screen).  It's very well behaved, but details do take a second or 2 to fill in sometimes.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Thursday, May 15, 2008, 03:46:06 AM
Well done with exception of the PS3 control bashing.  I still like the PS3 controls better (and all the sixaxis stuff is completely optional... it's even turned off by default), plus the streaming is supposed to be superior thanks to the install to the hard drive.  And the multiplayer is free, though he didn't even mention the multiplayer, which seems like an odd oversight.  I can think of any number of things he could have bitched about there (though I do enjoy it immensely, there are some areas it could use some work).
I watched a bunch of Yahtzee reviews I never bothered watching before and in the Medal of Honor: Airborne one he says that he doesn't play multiplayer.

So sixaxis... it sucks?  It seems like everyone hates it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, May 15, 2008, 06:20:34 AM
It doesn't really suck, there's just not much point in using it with most things.  They haven't done anything meaningful with it.  But it actually works fairly well.  It just really isn't something a lot of devs need or want to use, so when they do it's generally something simple like how you "yank out" the collectable souls from the enemies in Folklore.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: K-man on Thursday, May 15, 2008, 08:17:53 AM
Finished it the other night.  What a helluva game.  Probably cracks my top ten.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, May 16, 2008, 02:05:40 PM
DJ Red Lantern (who is on The Beat's Radio Station 102.7 in GTA4) is planning to release a rap/R&B/reggae compilation that are inspired by GTA4.

"Liberty City Invasion: Music From and Inspired by Grand Theft Auto IV" is due out May 20th. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6191082.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6191082)

Some of the artists include:
--The Clipse
--Busta Rhymes
--Styles P (formerly of The LOX and Ruff Ryders)
--Helltah Skeltah (Sean Price aka Ruck and Rock)
--Buckshot
--Wyclef Jean (formerly of The Fugees)
--Juelz Santana.

Quote
GTAIV album announced
DJ Green Lantern to release 16-track compilation of tunes from and inspired by the game, coming May 20.
By Emma Boyes, GameSpot UK
Posted May 16, 2008 4:18 am PT

Of the many neat little touches to Rockstar's action adventure Grand Theft Auto IV, the mind-boggling array of different radio stations to choose from while driving around Liberty City proved to be a big favourite with fans.

The stations have some 200 songs on rotation, spanning a wide range of genres, and include The Beat 102.7 (hip hop), Electrochoc (dance/electronica), Jazz Nation Radio 108.5 (jazz), and Vladivostok FM (Eastern European).

DJ Green Lantern, also known as The Evil Genius, who presents The Beat radio station, has announced a soundtrack album that includes eight tracks pulled from his in-game setlist, and eight more exclusive songs inspired by GTAIV. It will be different from The Music Of Grand Theft Auto IV which was included with the Special Edition.

The album--Liberty City Invasion: Music From and Inspired by Grand Theft Auto IV--will span hip-hop, reggae, and R&B, with featured performers including Busta Rhymes, Fat Joe, and Fabolous. It will be available to download from "all major digital retailers" on May 20, with a retail release is planned soon after.

The full tracklisting is as follows:

Styles P--"What's the Problem"
Busta Rhymes--"Where's My Money"
Wyclef, Uncle Murda & Mavado--"Informer"
Joell Ortiz & Dante Hawkins--"Alone"
Jim Jones & Juelz Santana--"Bustin' Shots"
Maino--"Get Away Driver"
Uncle Murda--"Anybody Can Get It"
Fabolous & Fat Joe--"I'm So Fly"
Qadir--"Nickname"
38 Special, Fever & Dwayne--"Streets Raised Me"
Clipse feat. Re-Up Gang--"9mm"
Heltah Skeltah feat. Buckshot--"Can't Trust Em"
Red Cafe--"Stick'm"
Immortal Technique--"Parole"
Tru Life--"Wet Em Up"
Johnny Polygon--"Price On Your Head"
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, May 16, 2008, 02:15:59 PM
D, you don't have this game.  Quit spamming the thread.  ;)

The music CD that came with the limited edition is sort of a joke, isn't it?  I'm glad I didn't pay for it.  There are like 7 tracks I like, and fortunately one of them is 12 minutes long.  They're not a very good representation of all the music in the game.  The album is way too rap-heavy.  I wish they'd release a complete compilation of the radio stations.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Friday, May 16, 2008, 03:29:44 PM
I felt like Three Leaf Clover was probably the hardest mission for me. There are bigger fights later, but by then you've generally got more or better cover or just more used to gunfights. There are a couple of hard chase sequences, but those are pretty few in the general scheme of things.

I finished the second ending today as well. Good stuff.
(click to show/hide)

It's cool they kept things from getting overblown like Vice City or San Andreas, but at the same time it feels strange to play a game that long and not come out saving the world or be the king of it. I can't fault the game for it and I like how things turned out, I guess I've just been conditioned to expect such things after so many games where length tends to result in a general hugeness in the end. It's nice to see a game buck that trend and keep a level head in that respect.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: K-man on Friday, May 16, 2008, 06:36:33 PM
I think overall it's a pretty good satire (and criticism) of the American dream.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, May 16, 2008, 11:08:15 PM
I burned myself out on it, I guess.  I got pissed off at a mission, and after I finally beat it (stupid AI kept getting itself killed) I just put it down and haven't picked it back up.  The urge still comes on me periodically, and I know that I'm going back to it before long just because I'm not playing or looking forward to any other action games right now.  Plus there's a bunch of stuff I haven't explored yet, and GTA4 finally succeeded in creating a city that's actually interesting to explore just intrinsically, a thing all the other games mostly failed at after you'd played them for a while.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 01:55:25 PM
The two actors that played Nico (Michael Hollick) and Roman (Jason Zumwalt) are complaining that the Actor's Union just doesn't cover video games for royalties and whatnot, while pretty much doing radio and TV stuff actually does. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3167910)

Quote
GTA4 Voice Actors Complain of Union Follies
Niko, Roman wish they were seeing some extra scratch.
By Steve Watts, 05/21/2008

Grand Theft Auto IV is making obscene gobs of cash for Rockstar Games and Take-Two, but some of the people invested in bringing the project to life feel a little left out of the cash flow. The New York Times reports that Michael Hollick, who voiced Niko Bellic, isn't quite rolling in the dough like his videogame counterpart.

And while Niko would just take the money through a series of murders and thefts, Hollick is a bit more polite, casually commenting on the sometimes-unfortunate circumstances of showbiz. Rockstar paid him a total of about $100,000 for 15 months of voice and motion-capture work, with no royalties or residuals based on the success of the game. As it turns out, the Screen Actors Guild contract doesn't make provisions for electronic media, including videogames. Negotiations are coming this summer to determine how the guild will deal with electronic media in the future, but of course any contract revisions won't be applied retroactively, so Hollick's GTA4 pay won't be increased.

"Obviously, I'm incredibly thankful to Rockstar for the opportunity to be in this game when I was just a nobody, an unknown quantity," said Hollick. "But it's tough, when you see Grand Theft Auto IV out there as the biggest thing going right now, when they're making hundreds of millions of dollars, and we don't see any of it." But he goes on: "I don't blame Rockstar. I blame our union for not having the agreements in place to protect the creative people who drive the sales of these games. Yes, the technology is important, but it's the human performances within them that people really connect to, and I hope actors will get more respect for the work they do within those technologies."

Even in promotion for the title, Hollick sees chinks in the union agreements. "The first GTA4 trailer generated something like 40 million hits online, and that's my voice all over it, and I get nothing. If that were a radio spot, I would have," he said. "Same thing for the TV ads. I recorded those lines for the game, but now they're all over television. It's another gray area."

But Hollick isn't the only one who feels the system is out of whack. Last week, Jason Zumwalt, voice of Niko's cousin Roman, came out with a more humorous take on the subject, claiming his lack of residuals is forcing him to rent himself out.

Though it's probably too late for the actors of Grand Theft Auto IV to receive extra compensation, these efforts may raise public awareness before the upcoming union negotiations. The recent Hollywood writer negotiations that resulted in a massive strike had electronic media at the root as well, so we're seeing unions slowly adapt to the changing face of the media. We'll see what happens in the SAG negotiations later this year.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 02:05:23 PM
Joystiq makes a good point (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/21/nikos-voice-got-about-100-000-for-gta-iv-and-not-a-penny-more/) about that.  If the voice actors get residuals, then should whoever did the animation for the character, and if motion capture was involved, so should the actor that did that.  Once you have enough fingers in the pie, there isn't enough to cover what has to be covered.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 03:33:50 PM
$100,000 is like, a lot of money as it is. How much do you think some random Rockstar programmer made? Or one of the environment artists that spent months building entire areas of the city? I'm sure they are paid well enough, but they probably won't be getting such kickbacks. "The area of the city I built was shown in the TV spot, I want a cut!" probably isn't going to fly.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 08:36:28 PM
Yeah, that's a hard point to argue.  Though in the case of this guy, apparently he also did the motion capture (if I read that right).  It seems like a lot compared to somebody like me who makes well under $40k a year, but for actors anyone, involved in fairly decent work is going to be making some pretty decent cash.  Even people you see involved in really shitty, lame TV are living in really big fucking houses if they aren't extras, you know?  Not saying I think that's fair, as frankly I think a lot of these people don't deserve a fifteenth of the money they get, but in context, what this guy is saying is somewhat accurate.  The programmer would be more like the set design guy for a movie in this version of the equation.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 10:00:23 PM
Except no one buys a videogame because of the voice actor. They buy it for whatever the programmer is making the game do.

It'll be kind of funny if this stuff all changes. Lots of game still have no voice acting, with everything in text. VA fees too high? Screw it.

Though it won't ever get that far. As a young VA that wants to get their name out there, what better place than something like GTA? Big name stars wont take $100,000 with no royalties for what is sure to be a huge blockbuster, but some no-name will jump at that gig.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 10:44:16 PM
Keep in mind that voice acting generally doesn't make a lot of cabbage for the amount of work one does, either.  If you're good you can make money, sure, but it's a fairly difficult business to break into, at least from what I know about it.  And not every game is GTA or will afford you that kind of income.  Generally speaking unless you're big-name talent, you don't make a lot of scratch.  That's why you see these people doing work *everywhere*, because they want all the jobs they can get.  I think they're definitely making more now than they were, but to my knowledge things have only started improving more recently.

And while it's true that people don't buy games for the actors, the actors can also heavily influence how convincingly a story comes out, which may help convince someone to buy a game, at least to a degree.  Good acting is always something we enjoy, even if it isn't something we actively look for, because it's always preferable to bad acting.  But there are times when it's influenced me, and times when I can see it doing so in the future.  For instance, if there was ever a sequel to Final Fantasy XII, I'd be very disappointed if the original cast didn't come back for that (though most of the time you do get entire casts back in the world of games because, as mentioned, voice actors want all the jobs they can get).  I thought those people did a job and a half on most of those performances.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Thursday, May 22, 2008, 04:02:24 AM
Got my 360 back yesterday and played another hour or so.  Many the early missions are mind-numbingly boring, aren't they?

I did find a Coquette and had some fun with that though.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, May 22, 2008, 01:47:07 PM
Except no one buys a videogame because of the voice actor. They buy it for whatever the programmer is making the game do.
But, if it's an excellent well-known voice-actor, it can help seal the deal even more so.

There's been some good games that would've been even better if the voice-acting wasn't so poor or all over the place. Especially if the lead character and/or arch nemesis in the game isn't well voice-acted, it really isn't going to help matters.

Quote
It'll be kind of funny if this stuff all changes. Lots of game still have no voice acting, with everything in text. VA fees too high? Screw it.
I think you can get away w/ no voice-acting OVER using a poor voice-actor, in some instances -- especially in a HUGE-sized game. In a huge-sized game like a RPG like say the NWN series proved. NWN proved you can have all of the main quests very well voice-acted using unique actors for main-quest NPC's, but have no voice-acting for the side quests -- then, nobody will really complain. I think it would've helped Gothic 2, to have followed *that* philosophy as too many of the main characters have the same voice-actors as other main characters and side characters in the game.

Quote
Though it won't ever get that far. As a young VA that wants to get their name out there, what better place than something like GTA? Big name stars wont take $100,000 with no royalties for what is sure to be a huge blockbuster, but some no-name will jump at that gig.
I think w/ so much emphasis on Roman and Nico in the game; from their voice-acting and motion-capture -- which you will notice from the commercials, trailers, and any other ads for the game -- yeah, their likeness will probably grow on you. So, in a sense, even if they ain't well known now, everybody's now gonna know who these two voice-actors are; these are basically the two faces (and voices) of the game, anyways.

I'm sure now, given how good GTA4 turned out to gamers and critics, these two guys will probably be highly in demand for doing voice-acting in games. And probably get paid a good amount of money for whatever the hell they do next, too.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, May 26, 2008, 05:00:32 PM
Got my 360 back yesterday and played another hour or so.  Many the early missions are mind-numbingly boring, aren't they?

I did find a Coquette and had some fun with that though.

Once you find it, the Turismo is the easiest supercar in the game to get.  It's also the best all-rounder, imho.  The Coquette is also a well-behaved fun machine.  Neither of these is the quickest or the fastest.  I'll leave you to discover those on your own.  Once you get a new rare car, save it.  (Park it in a saving spot, then save the game in the corresponding safe house.)  Then drive it around near the safe house until copies start to spawn.  Park it in the safe spot again, and run over to one of the duplicates.  Use that instead of the original.

Missions range from quick and easy to hard as nails.  Some will get your adrenaline going.  Once you learn the combat and start to pick up good weapons, the fun factor ratchets up.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, May 26, 2008, 05:22:47 PM
I finally unlocked the last island this morning.  Depending on how far I actually am, I don't know if I'll finish the game or not.  I want to, but the story's taken a pretty big turn for the uninteresting at this point and there isn't much urgency like there was initially.  That's a bit of a letdown.  I want to see what happens to Niko, but things haven't really seemed to be about Niko for a while now.  So we'll see, I guess.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ScaryTooth on Monday, May 26, 2008, 07:21:26 PM
I just unlocked the 3rd island myself. But I haven't played these last two days. Been doing outdoorsy stuff. Probably going to pick it back up tomorrow after work. I'm still really interested in the story. I really want to finish this one. It's just been really good so far. 
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, May 27, 2008, 10:00:50 AM
Except no one buys a videogame because of the voice actor. They buy it for whatever the programmer is making the game do.

It'll be kind of funny if this stuff all changes. Lots of game still have no voice acting, with everything in text. VA fees too high? Screw it.

Though it won't ever get that far. As a young VA that wants to get their name out there, what better place than something like GTA? Big name stars wont take $100,000 with no royalties for what is sure to be a huge blockbuster, but some no-name will jump at that gig.

They'll even whore themselves. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH2nirEuO-k)   :)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, June 14, 2008, 07:26:50 PM
I guess everyone lost interest in this game except me.  I finished it last night, at least one way.  I understand there is another.  This is the most frustrating game I have ever stuck with all the way to the end.  The flaws are many, yet I never could walk away from it.  I did things so many times that they became almost easy.  Combat, in particular with the carbine (assault) rifle, got to be second nature.  Lock, zoom, nudge, headshot, repeat . . . Still, with scripted unfairness and wonky controls, the game managed to keep me pissed off all the way to the bitter end.

(click to show/hide)

What's most disappointing, ironic even, is that after spending so many mountains of cash, after employing all those people to put so much effort into it, they still managed to fall short in some of the most important criteria for a game, like the paramount area of player control.  Streaming and real-time performance in general leave much to be desired.  And the AI is bush league.  These problems boil down to a few key people letting the rest of the crew down.  It was so close too, but not fully cooked.

No one can deny the richness of this world, though.  It is compelling despite the nasty flaws.  I guess that's why I'm still in Liberty City, frustration notwithstanding.  Now I want to follow the other path.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, June 14, 2008, 08:15:51 PM
I got my GTA fix, and while the story was compelling enough to keep me going for a while, eventually it just stopped being about a character I liked and cared about, and lost its way.  I won't say that I doubt I'll ever finish it, since if I need a GTA fix again there's zero reason for me to avoid going right back, but if and when that'll happen, who can say?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Saturday, June 14, 2008, 11:45:11 PM
I'm still playing. Just unlocked the third island and finished a mission where Nico tries to find someone with Roman for the first time. I don't remember names but I imaigne that's specific enough for anyone who's played to follow.

I'm about 22 hours in right now. Progress is slow because the game is quite monotonous at this point. I want to finish but I'm getting bored a lot. It's a damn good game but not the 10/10 it's been getting
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Sunday, June 15, 2008, 06:55:45 AM
I'm still playing, but yeah the story right now is stupid.  "I'll do anything for the right price" seems to be Nico's mantra at this point, as he's said something like that for like the last 30 missions.

I thought he wanted to get away from that sort of thing at the beginning of the game?  Obviously, it wouldn't be GTA if he didn't do this stuff, but they really let the story slip away from them.  I don't even know what's going on now.  I'm dealing with these Irish guys and that must have come from left field because I don't really remember meeting any of them through the other characters.

I still have fun with the game though.  It took getting used to the new driving model, but I'm very used to it now and still think driving is fun.  Sometimes I get annoyed by how you get thrown from vehicles in a bad crash because I used to love plowing full-speed into stuff in the other games.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, June 15, 2008, 07:09:21 AM
We know Mafia 2 coming out this year for the PC, as well.
But, if we get GTA4 this year on the PC as well, goddamn -- that'd be crazy.
It'd be one hell of a year for 2K Games and the crime action/driving games, to say the least.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, June 15, 2008, 09:39:53 AM
Scott, you meet Patrick doing missions for Elizabeta.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, June 15, 2008, 02:10:01 PM
That's what I was going to say.  The Irish family does wrap back into the main story, but Scott is right.  For a long time, the story seems to be on hold as you get to do lots of missions.  Everything stays interconnected, though.

My take on Niko is that he is a sociopath who will do whatever it takes to survive and get ahead.  He genuinely cares for some people, and his main loyalty is to family.  He can sympathize with people who have endured hardships similar to his own.  But he would kill anyone else if he thought it would benefit him, or keep him alive a day longer.

The mission path is long, and seems thinly connected to the storyline at times.  Still, there is a consistent thread in Niko's mind.  He is searching for something, and staying alive in this ugly world until he finds it, the best way he knows how.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Monday, June 16, 2008, 06:39:24 AM
Just bought a PS3 along with this game. I love it. I don't really have anything else to add since it's already been said here, so I'll just get back to playing now...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 11:18:00 PM
So my one gripe with the game was the auto aim, which was really annoying me to no end. But then I got the bright idea to turn it off, and that helps immensely. The auto aim really dumbs down the game.

Also, getting away from the cops is pretty easy at this point. 3 stars and below is a breeze. And none of the missions have seemed hard so far (5-6 hours in). Lets hope it gets a little tougher.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 11:23:25 PM
It will.  I'd be very surprised if you leave that autoaim turned off.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 11:25:58 PM
I hate auto aim. I like to be in control of where I'm shooting at all times, and auto aim essentially caps your skill level at a certain point.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 11:38:10 PM
And my guess is eventually your skill level will fall below what the autoaim will allow.  I dislike autoaim as much as the next guy, but it really wasn't feasible to be without it for a good number of missions IMO, unless you like a lot of pointless frustration.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 02:56:59 AM
You can nudge the aim point away from the lock point as well.  I get plenty of head shots that way (with auto aim on).  Also the zoom (right stick in toggles) is much closer if you're locked on target.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 04:53:24 AM
Not sure how it works on PS3, but on the 360 if you only hold the lock-on trigger halfway, it gives you the crosshair but doesn't lock on to anyone.  The manual also says the same thing about the right trigger, but I'm used to the left so I haven't tried that.

As far as mission difficulty, there are some harder missions but I've yet to replay a mission more than once.  For refrence I have all the islands open.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 08:03:31 AM
Not sure how it works on PS3, but on the 360 if you only hold the lock-on trigger halfway, it gives you the crosshair but doesn't lock on to anyone.  The manual also says the same thing about the right trigger, but I'm used to the left so I haven't tried that.

I'll have to try that. I was trying to find a way to disengage auto aim but I couldn't.

Also, Que, you totally underestimate how awesome I am at this game.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 12:03:25 PM
Auto aim, like some of the other controls, has problems.  It always seems to lock on the closer targets, even if they're nowhere near what you're aiming at, and even when they're behind cover.  The halfway thing for manual aiming really is necessary.  If that's tough to do on the PS3, it's a big problem.

It took me most of the game to stop sucking at it.  I think I was too wound up about it before.  I've replayed most of it from the beginning, and it was so much easier.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 01:24:16 PM
Well I tried the halfway thing on the PS3 and it works - I guess I'm just so used to mashing down the buttons as hard as I can that I didn't realize it. I still don't like it, though. It works against you on the street because it always seems to aim for the pedestrians. Plus it just seems a little cheap.

Anyways, so far I find it easier just to turn up the sensitivity a bit and aim for the head. I can usually gun down people quicker and it uses less ammo.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Saturday, June 28, 2008, 10:11:53 AM
I was thinking recently that in many ways, GTAIV seems scaled back from previous games.  You don't have things like hydraulics on cars.   You don't seem to have the car missions that past games used to have (like you get into a certain van and then you do RC missions).  No planes.  No Apache.  No Army.  No tanks.  None of the trucker missions like in GTA:SA.

Don't get me wrong, I like the game and there are many things that have improved.  But I feel that in a lot of ways it's a step back.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, June 28, 2008, 11:31:49 AM
I think they endeavored mostly to remove stuff that was superfluous.  A lot of stuff was missing, but most of it was pointless and inconsequential, and removing it kept the focus more on what they wanted to really drive going forward.  Some of those omissions may ultimately have been missteps, but I think I see the logic behind it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, June 29, 2008, 10:04:26 AM
I didn't like VC's RC mission -- If that didn't make it into GTA4, then good.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, June 29, 2008, 04:38:47 PM
Actually, there are attack helicopters, but they're lame and hard to get.  The map is smaller than SA's (though much denser), so airplanes don't make much sense.  Helicopters are the perfect air travel for the conditions.  I do miss the military vehicles.  A bus makes a good tank, though.  Engine's in the back, so they're indestructible battering rams in this game (because only engine damage disables vehicles).

Did anyone else battle the cops from Playboy X's penthouse?  Use some ammo cheats, and you can keep it going forever.  Just make sure you blow up the propane tank by the gas grill first (from a safe distance).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Saturday, July 05, 2008, 07:22:45 PM
The mission "Paper Trail" is really annoying me. I'm supposed to get in a helicopter, locate another one and follow it until it gets over water so Lil Jacob can shoot it down. So I get in the helicopter, fly up, start going south and in about 15 seconds it tells me I've lost the helicopter I'm supposed to be following. This happens again and again yet I've never even seen the other helicopter. I tried locating it by pressing B which locks onto a target. In this case it locks onto what appears to be a blank spot.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Saturday, July 05, 2008, 08:29:21 PM
Must be a bug.  On my game, the helicopter was plainly obvious.  I believe it starts off right in front of you.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, July 05, 2008, 08:43:05 PM
It's easy to lose, though.  First few times I did it I had trouble keeping track of it.  That was a very poor mission, IMO.  Fun once you get the hang of it, but it took several tries and the aiming at the end is horribly inconsistent.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, July 06, 2008, 08:51:40 PM
It seems to me that a lot of these little nuisance about the game are going to be more glaring over time, I mean even looking back on the game now, I still loved it, but it almost feels just like GTA3 now to me.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, July 06, 2008, 11:54:28 PM
The problem is that while nearly all aspects of the game evolved a ton, the gameplay only evolved a little.  It did get better, but there are still a lot of weak points and stuff that's just plain substandard.  It's a great game on the whole, but it needed to try a little harder in the gameplay department.  The evolution it needed just isn't there.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, July 07, 2008, 08:51:46 PM
I was tempted at one point to compile a long list of those problems, but ended up deciding it wasn't worth it.  They're not going to get fixed, and that's that.  It's not the power of the system that limits the game.  I've seen enough excellent development dealing with similar technical demands to know it without a doubt.  I suspect the real limit is the borderline incompetence of some entrenched techies at Rockstar.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, July 08, 2008, 04:49:59 PM
I was playing this last night and really struggling with seeing pretty much anything on the cell phone so I searched the web today and came across this:

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=384100&page=1

I can't believe the number of complete and utter assholes that populate that forum.  It's amazing.  I have never seen a greater display of utter ignorance, incompetence, and lack of sympathy.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Tuesday, July 08, 2008, 06:43:06 PM
Wow, that is lame. Funny how the console gamer is now the elitist.

The guy has a point too. Even on a big HDTV, those things seem too small at times. They would be pretty much worthless at that size on a standard set or a small screen. I would assume that games would take notice to the resolution the system is set and and use appropriate sized menus and items, but I know that's not the case. Dead Rising's text is a perfect example.

That said, I know there's an option to make the text bigger on the cell phone. The phone isn't any bigger and there's only like three words on the screen per time when you turn the option on, but it's there. Go through the options on the actual cell phone and you'll find it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, July 08, 2008, 09:24:31 PM
I can't read the text on the cellphone at all with my tv, and its 35 inches. The resolution just isn't good enough. I noticed today some similar issues with text when I was playing Battlefield: Bad Company.

I'm getting an HDTV soon so it isn't a huge deal, but it still seems like they make some of these games with a complete disregard for non-hdtvs.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, July 08, 2008, 10:52:18 PM
I never thought about this.  I have no problems with any text.  The HDTV is only 23", but it's 2' away when I play.  Another common complaint is overscan.  On some HDTVs the edge text and minimap get partially cut off.  That's not a problem for SDTV, though if you can't read it, what's the difference?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 01:18:50 AM
Well I have a 56" HDTV and I dont know how many of you have played this mission so I'll spoiler tag it, but its one I found really fucking annoying.

(click to show/hide)


But yea, I agree some of those HUD details can be hard to see as well.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 06:15:04 AM
That said, I know there's an option to make the text bigger on the cell phone. The phone isn't any bigger and there's only like three words on the screen per time when you turn the option on, but it's there. Go through the options on the actual cell phone and you'll find it.
Can you describe the location for this option?  I looked last night and could not find it.  I just found options to change the ring type, the ring tone, keypad tone, and turn on sleep mode.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 10:53:29 AM
It should be right around where you were looking. I believe the option is called "Text Size".

Pyro, I had that exact same problem. I saw it during the cutscene and realized what I was supposed to do so I had a vague number memorized and was able to guess variations until I got it. It was annoying though, it can't be that hard to test a game on different size screens.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 11:29:11 AM
It's definitely not there.  Maybe it's a PS3-only option?  I have the 2nd cell phone.  Not sure if there are any after, but maybe it has something to do with that?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 05:36:42 PM
Don't think so.  I had it on the original phone as far as I know.  I can't imagine why it would be a PS3-only option, but for what it's worth, I do have the PS3 version.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 06:34:23 PM
I just checked and it the option to change text size is in between the Theme and Keypad Tone listings.

That would be just lame if it's a PS3 only option.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 07:21:25 PM
It's not. I have the Xbox version and it's there. If you give me a bit I can take a picture of where it is but what Sy said sounds right.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 07:26:50 PM
(http://shackpics.com/files/phone_hzxhbdm7zlrzeiklloq7.jpg)

Crappy picture but you get the idea. Just go to phone options and scroll down a little.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 08:26:26 PM
Well I have a 56" HDTV and I dont know how many of you have played this mission so I'll spoiler tag it, but its one I found really fucking annoying.

(click to show/hide)


But yea, I agree some of those HUD details can be hard to see as well.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 09:11:58 PM
(http://shackpics.com/files/phone_hzxhbdm7zlrzeiklloq7.jpg)

Crappy picture but you get the idea. Just go to phone options and scroll down a little.
I'm wondering if it's an HD only setting.  I definitely do not have the option as I just checked again.  Plus, I only have two settings per screen, not three like yours shows.  Maybe it is already large text by default on SD.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Wednesday, July 09, 2008, 09:20:45 PM
That could be. When I set mine to large I only get two settings per screen as well.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 06, 2008, 10:22:36 AM
PC version to release Nov 21 (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=54059)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 06, 2008, 01:32:56 PM
PC version to release Nov 21 (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=54059)
I knew that was coming eventually!
Count me in!
Great news!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 12:25:37 AM
Sweet! Now I'm glad I didn't pick it up for my PS3 :) (it was a toss up between GTA4 and MGS4).

I hope the new multiplayer features will stand out.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 06:46:52 AM
Sweet! Now I'm glad I didn't pick it up for my PS3 :) (it was a toss up between GTA4 and MGS4).

I hope the new multiplayer features will stand out.

I'm curious if the new GTA 4 PC MP content will be what the upcoming GTA 4 X360 MP DLC will be....
...Whatever it might be...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 09:58:26 AM
I just wonder what the new features will be.  I really, really enjoyed the GTA4 multiplayer on PS3.  It was quite a bit of fun, pretty well balanced, and absolutely roll-on-the-floor hilarious.  I'd put it right up there with Smash Bros. in terms of just how much I laughed and shouted when playing with others, even if only online instead of in the same room.  Really good fun.  And a lot of the players didn't seem that great, because I managed to dominate a whole lot of matches when I first tried it.  By now people have probably played a lot more and I'd get creamed, heh... but still.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 10:26:44 AM
Que, I know you own GTA4 on the consoles -- but would you pick up GTA4 PC?
Or would you wait til it hits the bargain bin?

If I recall, you've had a lot of troubles w/ GTA's on the PC.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 12:15:22 PM
Yeah, I don't trust Rockstar's ability to develop a stable game for the PC.  If it turns out to be a great port and there's some decent extra incentive, there's definitely a chance that I might, but it isn't likely at this point since I've got a much better display for my consoles right now.  Once I invest in a good widescreen monitor, that may change, but it mostly depends on whether or not there's any good reason to get it for PC.  If they clean up the visuals a bit (I thought they were too muddy in some respects) and maybe have DLC available as an option (and if that DLC is any good, which I'm not betting on), there's a fair chance.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 02:00:25 PM
I main reason I generally prefer getting titles like GTA on PC is aiming. I have a lot of trouble tolerating aiming with an analogue stick. Auto-aim doesn't cut it either. Unless there's a lock-on button (which would pretty much defeat the purpose of aiming and potentially ruin a game).

My brother and I don't understand the appeal of waddling a stick around to try to aim.

I hooked up a wireless keyboard + mouse to my PS3 and was pleasantly surprised to see it work! I could navigate the PS3 menus and type, etc. Sadly it doesn't work in any of the games I have. Which made me wish that all developers would make their games compatible with Mouse+KB configuration as well as the gamepad.. Kinda like a PC.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 02:33:47 PM
I played the GTA games I have on PC (VC and SA mostly) with both forms of control, depending on whether I was on foot or driving something.  You're absolutely right about aiming.  Nothing beats a mouse yet, I don't care what anyone says.  But by the same token, KB+mouse is not the best way to pilot any kind of vehicle.  I've seen terrific emulation of a joystick with a mouse in some games, so good that you swear the mouse is the top of a good stick.  The one missing thing is the spring-loaded auto-centering.  Not hard to get used to.  A more glaring fault is the lack of other analog controls, for things like throttle and brake.  A good dual-stick controller is nearly ideal for the driving in GTA games.  Mouse+KB in them has so far been much worse, even if you ignore the lack of analog stop and go.  I wonder if they'll fix that problem with IV on the PC.  Given how many traditional GTA problems remained unfixed in IV on the consoles, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 04:10:57 PM
Yeah, I always played the PC versions of the games switching between mouse and keyboard for shooting/footslogging to a duel shock clone for the driving. It was slightly cumbersome while transitioning from car to foot, but it worked very well. Almost too well because the shooting parts were extremely easy.

GTA IV fixed a lot of the problems with shooting this time around and plays like a top tier 3rd person shooter now. I could actually see it not working so well with a mouse because of intelligent use of auto-targeting, cover, and the like. Even driving with a decent gamepad will be hard to move over to PC because GTA IV really made use of analog triggers in the driving sections. That isn't so much of a problem now that you can use a 360 controller, but I wouldn't expect Rockstar to really make sure the game uses the pad to the fullest extent even if all they have to do is transfer over the controls from the 360 version.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 04:27:55 PM
Really?  Why wouldn't they transfer the driving controls without change?  The 360 wired controller has become sort of a favorite on the PC.  And you're right, the triggers as throttle and brake are used perfectly.  It would be a huge shame if that gets sidestepped in the PC version.  A greater fear should be that mouse aiming gets a poor development effort, since it has to be added from scratch.  If it were up to me, I'd have aim lock go to the target closest to the cursor, with an option in the settings to auto-switch to another target if you move the cursor (while holding down the lock button).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 04:46:56 PM
It's my general feeling on how the GTAs (and most games recently) have been ported to PC. Things just usually seem pretty lazy in general.

Really though, if anything on the PC side of things I'd be more concerned with performance than control. Historically, all the GTAs rarely performed like they should on the PC. Considering this one even pushed the new consoles, I wouldn't expect great performance pretty much across the board. At HD settings, it wasn't even going at full 720p. Pump that up to PC standard resolutions and there's going to be problems.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 07:28:25 PM
Sy said everything I was thinking in regards to all that.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 09:19:05 PM
It's my general feeling on how the GTAs (and most games recently) have been ported to PC. Things just usually seem pretty lazy in general.

Even though I hold a certain affinity for PC gaming, you can't really blame them. All the money is in the console games. Many of the games are clearly made with a console-oriented affiliation in mind, GTA4 included.

Speaking of which, you can't really expect great things out of driving with a kb/mouse. I played GTA:SA on PC and it was glaring how bad the driving controls were with the combo. But then again, all shooting aspects were really easy. There's a pretty big differential between the two.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 10:51:16 PM
You can't say all the money is in consoles, because it's not.  There's a big PC market, consoles just happen to be bigger.  But that still leaves a percentage of money to be lost if you don't take advantage of releasing for the PC platform, and the market is plenty big enough for profit there.  Maybe that means ports instead of primary platform to some companies, but still.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Saturday, August 09, 2008, 11:09:37 PM
No, clearly the money is not all in consoles because then we wouldn't see any PC games.

But just look at the decline in the number of AAA PC-exclusive titles.

Something's gonna give. It has to.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 10, 2008, 12:01:49 AM
Not necessarily.  Maybe we'll have less AAA-exclusives, but so what?  Frankly, most of the AAA games are starting to piss me off because a lot of them end up being derivative graphics-fests, and I can do without that.  I'll take an Aquaria over a Crysis any day (and don't take that as an in-depth review of Crysis, because I haven't even played it, and I'm sure it's not a bad game... but you see what I'm saying).
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, August 10, 2008, 06:33:49 PM
Not necessarily.  Maybe we'll have less AAA-exclusives, but so what?  Frankly, most of the AAA games are starting to piss me off because a lot of them end up being derivative graphics-fests, and I can do without that.
I have no problem w/ companies -- like Rockstar making GTA series; UbiSoft w/ AC; Lionhead with Fable; Bioware with KOTOR, Jade Empire and Mass Effect; etc etc -- making their games for consoles to make tons of the money so that they decide to then port it over the PC, as long as we keep getting our PC ports. Usually, when this occurs, things can be added and fixed for the PC version -- like extra content, new game features, better graphical enhancements, some gameplay issues fixed, etc etc.

Now, I have a problem when companies take the Epic route and make GoW for consoles where it comes out fine, but then port it to the PC lazily. So lazily, it still has a stuttering issue and STILL has NOT been fixed on the PC. C'mon, Epic -- go fix this. 

Quote from: Que
I'll take an Aquaria over a Crysis any day (and don't take that as an in-depth review of Crysis, because I haven't even played it, and I'm sure it's not a bad game... but you see what I'm saying).
As good as Far Cry was, it was NOT Crysis. Crysis is just superior to FC in so many ways -- zero gravity levels in Crysis are awesome, the frozen levels rocked, much better voice-acting, and better presentation. I think Crysis was more "artsy" than FC, myself -- see the alien levels in zero gravity and the frozen levels. FC wasn't too artsy in regards to the way the enemies looked; it just looked great, technically. Crysis just needs some performance improvements, whereas FC (still) needs a freakin' better save-system.

Quote from: Ghandi
Even though I hold a certain affinity for PC gaming, you can't really blame them. All the money is in the console games. Many of the games are clearly made with a console-oriented affiliation in mind, GTA4 included.
WoW would prove otherwise that NOT ALL the money is in console games.

I think heavily-KB/mouse driven games (such as the strategy games) have a better shot at making money on the PC than they would on the console.

Quote from: Ghandi
Speaking of which, you can't really expect great things out of driving with a kb/mouse. I played GTA:SA on PC and it was glaring how bad the driving controls were with the combo. But then again, all shooting aspects were really easy. There's a pretty big differential between the two.
GTA: SA's driving with KB/mouse is fine, if you ask me; it was designed fine, since the camera's are less wonkier than they are in the past when using the KB/mouse. Really, though -- gamers respond quicker w/ the control pad for driving elements, in general, anyways.

Plus, if you got a problem w/ driving elements in PC games, there are good PC gamepads out there supported -- such as the X360 Controller For Windows. GTA: SA supports that controller just fine.
 
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Monday, August 11, 2008, 12:07:09 PM
No, clearly the money is not all in consoles because then we wouldn't see any PC games.

But just look at the decline in the number of AAA PC-exclusive titles.

Something's gonna give. It has to.
I don't think that's a great PC vs. console argument anymore.  Excluding Nintendo games, how many single-console-exclusive AAA games are there?  There is certainly a decline in that number in comparison to five years ago as well.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, August 11, 2008, 12:33:48 PM
I don't think that's a great PC vs. console argument anymore.  Excluding Nintendo games, how many single-console-exclusive AAA games are there?  There is certainly a decline in that number in comparison to five years ago as well.

It's not a question of exclusivity, but of where the development resources get focused.  I see the trend of developing the big games for the 2 more powerful consoles, then porting them to the PC.  It was just the opposite not too long ago.  And of course there are still developers like id who focus on the PC first.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Monday, August 11, 2008, 12:55:36 PM
I see what you are saying, but I was simply responding to Ghandi's statement.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, August 11, 2008, 03:14:57 PM
Well, I'm a bit confused then, because I thought the gist of his comment was that, yes, there are still PC games, but look at the decline of big money focused on them.  If you consider the Xbox 360 and the PS3 as a single platform ("the console market") then it is getting the up-front exclusivity, with PC ports following months later, if ever.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, August 11, 2008, 03:17:28 PM
Well, I'm a bit confused then, because I thought the gist of his comment was that, yes, there are still PC games, but look at the decline of big money focused on them.  If you consider the Xbox 360 and the PS3 as a single platform ("the console market") then it is getting the up-front exclusivity, with PC ports following months later, if ever.

I'm still waiting for a Condemned 2 PC port...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Monday, August 11, 2008, 03:29:05 PM
Can't quote on mobile...

Cobra, I see what you are saying and that is a valid point, but there is another argument that could be made as well: there are far more console games ported to the PC now than there have ever been before.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 13, 2008, 12:25:37 PM
Bare minimums are not stated. (unless these are also them).

But, the Reccommended Specs released for GTA4 PC from Games For Windows Website go as follows: (http://www.gamesforwindows.com/en-US/Games/Pages/grandtheftautoiv.aspx)

Quote
RECOMMENDED REQUIREMENTS
   
OS:            Windows XP SP2
Processor:    Dual core processor (Intel Pentium D or better)
RAM:    2GB
Hard Drive: 18GB free hard disk space
Video Card:   512MB Direct3D 10 compatible video card or Direct3D 9 card compatible with Shader
Drive:    DVD-ROM dual-layer drive
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: ren on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 04:41:22 AM
Out of curiosity, who finished the game and who didn't?

I have about 30 to 35 hours and 70ish missions completed but I haven't touched the game in a month and don't plan on going back for the forseeable future.

Too much too the same.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 06:54:34 AM
Yeah, I'm about the same as you.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 10:10:31 AM
I think that I played too much San Andreas before picking this up, because I haven't played it much at all. Maybe 10-15 hours or so. I dunno why, but I haven't felt compelled to play it much. It's just one of those games where, once I start playing it, I'll be really into it for a week or so and beat it. But I haven't gotten there yet. Part of the problem is that I haven't really gotten into the story.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: iPPi on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 01:29:59 PM
I put about 10-15 hours in the game but haven't played much more of it.  While the scale of the game and pretty much everything about it is amazing, in the end, I don't have the motivation to go and play it again.  Not sure why though.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 01:41:36 PM
I think that I played too much San Andreas before picking this up, because I haven't played it much at all. Maybe 10-15 hours or so. I dunno why, but I haven't felt compelled to play it much. It's just one of those games where, once I start playing it, I'll be really into it for a week or so and beat it. But I haven't gotten there yet. Part of the problem is that I haven't really gotten into the story.

My problem w/ San Andreas -- any namely many of the GTA's -- is that there's no checkpoint style auto-saves within those multiple-part missions.

So, if you die in a long mission and fail it, you have to start that entire mission over. That just makes me want to either go do another mission or shut the damn game off.

Take a cue from Freelancer, Rockstar and GTA -- auto-saves within long missions with multiple pieces to them IS a good idea.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 03:30:32 PM
I managed to finish the game, but I did just have to put my head down and push through the last few hours. The last mission is actually pretty tough as well and that took a good couple of tries. The story petered out about 2/3 through the game, which was a shame because that really seemed like the biggest upgrade from the previous games. It did manage to come together pretty well in the end, but the impact of the resolution was lost because of that lull. It wasn't even so much of a lull, but it seemed like the interpersonal relationships between Niko and the other people that were potentially interesting were sort of forgotten for the usual GTA thing for a bit of time.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 04:33:19 PM
I lost interest. It seemed like too much of a downgrade over GTA:VC and GTA:SA. Also it's just like Si said: the interesting interactions are put away for a bit and you're just doing stuff you did in the other GTAs a million times over.

I think its clear the series needs to break new ground again or be put to rest for awhile.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 09:37:29 PM
Out of curiosity, who finished the game and who didn't?

I have about 30 to 35 hours and 70ish missions completed but I haven't touched the game in a month and don't plan on going back for the forseeable future.

Too much too the same.

I finished it.  Then I played it a lot more after that.  Got hooked on just being there.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 09:40:44 PM
Got hooked on just being there.

You're all about the games where you can explore big, open cities. GTA4, Crackdown, Burnout Paradise, Assassins Creed...

Just an observation. :)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 10:02:05 PM
I'm with him.  I love all that stuff, especially when it has to do with a city or cities.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time as much these days.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 10:07:32 PM
Yes, yes.  It's true.  It's escapism, I'm sure, though I don't consider that as I'm doing it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 12:53:06 AM
The irony is that I could really fucking use the escape, but I just don't have the time for it consistently.  Gaming is getting harder to achieve these days.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 20, 2008, 05:59:27 AM
Man, Que needs to strike it rich w/ his books and music.
That way, when he gets so rich, he can just retire and have time to kick some gaming ass! :)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, September 20, 2008, 10:42:58 AM
Yeah, that'll never happen.  But I can dream...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, September 21, 2008, 05:48:05 AM
Yeah, that'll never happen.  But I can dream...

Always good to have dreams. :)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 01:38:07 PM
GTA4 Multiplayer on the PC will use exclusively Windows Live (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54866)

Quote
GTA 4 PC Named Games for Windows Live Exclusive
by Nick Breckon Sep 22, 2008 10:55pm CST tags: Grand Theft Auto 4

Microsoft today announced that the PC port of Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto IV will exclusively use Games for Windows Live for its multiplayer component when it is released on November 18.

"As we work toward the release of the PC version, Games for Windows Live affords us the opportunity to seamlessly translate the multiplayer console experience for PC gamers," said Rockstar founder Sam Houser. "The service is a natural fit for the platform and we strongly believe it will help in building a strong online community around GTA IV PC."

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 01:58:21 PM
What a line of BS:  "The service is a natural fit for the platform..."
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 02:06:56 PM
At least it is free now.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 02:09:52 PM
At least it is free now.

Agreed.

But I'm sure some gamers would like to play GTA4 MP on the PC over a LAN, as well...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 02:57:52 AM
GFWL doesn't support LAN?????????
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 01:37:38 PM
GFWL doesn't support LAN?????????

I dunno -- does it?

I don't recall GoW PC or Kane & Lynch PC supporting it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 27, 2008, 10:28:14 PM
Wired is taking their stance that they think it is possible GTA4 might save Games For Windows / Windows Live. (http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/09/grand-theft-a-1.html)

I think it's true that a game as well-known and well-regarded as GTA4 was on the consoles coming to the PC might help save GFW and Win Live, but this game was already on the consoles already -- and sold like crazy. Really, though -- how many people who own GTA4 already on the consoles are going to rebuy it for the PC?

And as big as the SP probably is in size (if you decide to do lots of things or everything, especially), how long is it gonna take for some SP gamers to switch over to the MP side? How many will even actually try the MP right off the bat and stick with just that?

Oh, and given the game's recommended requirements (which do seem high), how many people are actually going to buy it upon release knowing only THOSE specs? If those are not the bare min's (and we actually get some bare min specs revealed that ain't so high), you might see better sales of this game on the PC, upon its release.



Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 31, 2008, 05:15:30 AM
GTA4 PC delayed until December 2nd.

We've seen GTA 4 PC's reccommended specs.
Now, we have the minimum requirements revealed now for GTA4 PC. (http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/925/925515p1.html?RSSwhen2008-10-30_103600&RSSid=925515)

Quote
GTA IV PC Delayed to December

Rockstar releases official PC system requirements.
by Jimmy Thang

US, October 30, 2008 - Rockstar has delayed the PC version of Grand Theft Auto IV to December 2. Even though the console versions of the critically-acclaimed shooter were released back in April, the PC version was originally set for a November launch.

While Rockstar did not give any reasons for the delay, GTA IV for the PC will feature new enhancements and additions over its console counterparts. Not only has the game been configured for the mouse and keyboard controls, but the PC version will allow players to turn the city's traffic density up, and will feature graphical updates like better draw distances.

To take advantage of these new visual upgrades, Rockstar has released the official system requirements for the game. The Games for Windows web site previously posted technical specifications for the game back in September, but they were later removed. The previously posted requirements share a lot in common with the recommended system requirements. Specifications are posted below:

Minimum System Requirements

    * OS: Windows Vista - Service Pack 1 / Windows XP - Service Pack 3

    * Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8Ghz, AMD Athlon X2 64 2.4Ghz

    * Memory: 1.5GB, 16GB Free Hard Drive Space

    * Video Card: 256MB NVIDIA 7900 / 256MB ATI X1900

Recommended System Requirements

    * OS: Windows Vista - Service Pack 1 / Windows XP - Service Pack 3

    * Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz, AMD Phenom X3 2.1Ghz

    * Memory: 2 GB (Windows XP) 2.5 GB (Windows Vista)

    * 18 GB Free Hard Drive Space

    * Video Card: 512MB NVIDIA 8600 / 512MB ATI 3870

IGN did a recent preview of the game; to see how the PC version of GTA IV is shaping up, click here.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, October 31, 2008, 07:25:33 AM
Quote
Video Card: 512MB NVIDIA 8600 / 512MB ATI 3870

That's recommended??? That's them talking out of their ass.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, November 08, 2008, 08:16:57 AM
GTA4 PC preview from TotalVideoGames.com.
This preview looks at the Video Editing Suite that comes with the game. (http://www.totalvideogames.com/GTA-IV/preview-13402.html)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, November 28, 2008, 10:01:17 AM
GTA4 PC DRM interview here w/ IGN (http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/934/934268p1.html?RSSwhen2008-11-28_032600&RSSid=934268)

Summary for ALL Versions:
--Securom IS the game's protection for ALL versions (Retail, any Digital version, Steam, etc)
--Three pieces will be needed to run the game: G4WL, Rockstar Games Social Club program, and (of course) Securom

Summary for Retail Version:
--Disc IS needed in the drive to play
--Online activation IS required
--Changing major PC components "two" times or more will ask you to do an online "re-activation"
--NO install number limits

Summary for Steam version:
--NO additional install limits
--NO disc needed to play (obviously)




Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:25:32 AM
Haha, I have to sign up for G4WL and some stupid Rockstar bullshit?  Fucking pass.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:40:20 AM
They can't be serious... they want me to sign up with that club???? I don't understand why they are making us jump through three hoops here.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Friday, November 28, 2008, 12:16:20 PM
I don't understand why they are making us jump through three hoops here.

Because they know that no one will sign up for some stupid bullshit unless they make it mandatory.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 08:41:46 AM
Or just get the console version and be done with it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 08:47:58 AM
They can't be serious... they want me to sign up with that club???? I don't understand why they are making us jump through three hoops here.

I could make a guess...

Since GTA4 PC has this new Video Editing Suite (http://www.totalvideogames.com/GTA-IV/preview-13402.html) coming built in with it, I bet The Rockstar Social Club will probably be where we can upload our very own GTA4 PC Videos and screenshots to.

Just a guess. I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 02:08:50 PM
Or just get the console version and be done with it.

Developers and distributors bitch about the PC market woes, and then they drive people away with shit like this.  Too funny.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 04:14:34 PM
Developers and distributors bitch about the PC market woes, and then they drive people away with shit like this.  Too funny.

Let's analyze this all.

PC Version
Securom protection forced for every version -- a lot of people hate this protection, regardless of which "version" it is; known to cause issues.

You're forced to activate period -- no matter what.
For SP or MP, you MUST put the disc in the drive (retail version).
I could understand the MP forcing activation and all, but SP should only need the disc.

G4WL and Rockstar Social Club required -- yeah, that's a lot of stuff to be forced to run at once and all.
I think those two should be OPTIONAL, myself.

Double-core processor required -- not everybody has this kind of processor.

Console version
Pop game into disc drive and just play.

Yeah...and people wonder the console versions often outsell PC games...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 04:40:56 PM
Now why didn't I think of every single thought in your post before I made mine?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 05:01:22 PM
Let's analyze this all.


Double-core processor required -- not everybody has this kind of processor.




Well, you can't really blame this on the developers entirely.  But yeah, I agree 100% with everything else you've said.  I'm kind of in a weird place in that I'm actually considering getting it off of STEAM just because it'd be less of a bitch to deal with, and I don't really want to.  How many people here are actually planning on getting this for PC by the way? 
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 05:03:40 PM
Now why didn't I think of every single thought in your post before I made mine?

(http://carlnet.no-ip.org/facepalm_implied.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 06:23:43 PM
Well, you can't really blame this on the developers entirely.  But yeah, I agree 100% with everything else you've said.  I'm kind of in a weird place in that I'm actually considering getting it off of STEAM just because it'd be less of a bitch to deal with, and I don't really want to.  How many people here are actually planning on getting this for PC by the way? 

Honestly... I planned to. Not anymore. Being the lazy person that I am, I get discouraged from buying anything that has me make an effort to use my purchase beyond the work I did to earn the money that paid for the game.

Now this money will go in the L4D fund. (Yes Que, that is very ironic)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 06:39:07 PM
I was thinking about this today after reading MysterD's post about the DRM on this game.  I have always been the type of person to buy the PC version of a mulitplatform game ever since I got a 360 since the pad works for the PC too.  Usually you have a lot more customization and generally the possibility of better performance and visuals, aside from a few ugly ducklings like Gears of War and Halo.  It's interesting they are both Microsoft games, but that's irrelevant.

But reading about all this bullshit you have to put up with now is really starting to turn me off.  I had been feeling bad about my argh matey ways and was buying everything, even considering buying a copy of Norton Ghost and some third party backup software, things I wouldn't have even given a real thought to in the past if I needed them.

This DRM thing is really disheartening.  There is no way I'm going to put up with this level of DRM on GTA4, and I'm finding that increasingly true of other games as well.  I'm not saying I'm going to pirate the game, but I'm definitely not buying them.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 09:38:31 PM
Now why didn't I think of every single thought in your post before I made mine?

Ummm...I'm guessing you did.
I thought you and I were on the same page, so I basically expanded on your one-liner.

You know, I am so sick of PC games getting extra non-necessary bullshit attached with them -- G4WL required on some games; Valve games require Steam; some games got nasty DRM; some games got install limits; some digitally distributed games extra-DRM on top of their digital distribution protection (Sacred 2 on Impulse has its Securom install limits with revokes allowed imposed on it (http://www.impulsedriven.com/sacred2), Crysis Warhead has install limits over Steam); etc etc.

So many games I was going to pony up for upon release, it just never happened b/c of extra unnecessary bullcrap coming with the PC version of the product -- Spore, Mass Effect, Dead Space, etc etc; that's just to name a few. It's okay, though -- I'll just buy the game when it's MUCH cheaper.

I wouldn't be surprised if all this vicious DRM is a conspiracy by certain publishers to try and get the hell away from the PC market just to try to lower PC games sales so they can blame piracy and just not make PC versions of games. But, if that's the case -- why don't they just stop making PC versions altogether?

Regardless, over-vicious DRM and these publishers themselves are the ones hurting the PC market more than anybody else.

EDIT:
Quote
Well, you can't really blame this on the developers entirely.  But yeah, I agree 100% with everything else you've said.  I'm kind of in a weird place in that I'm actually considering getting it off of STEAM just because it'd be less of a bitch to deal with, and I don't really want to.  How many people here are actually planning on getting this for PC by the way?
Only annoyance with buying it from STEAM is if you get the STEAM Edition, you'd have one more processes running in the background than the retail -- so, you'd then have Steam, G4WL, Rockstar Social Club, and those Securom drivers running all at once.

I'd probably buy GTA4 PC, if I actually had a Double Core processor -- yes, even w/ all these unnecessary annoyances and all. I dunno, I'm just a PC gamer, regardless of everything -- I just like a lot of the other advantages of PC gaming. When publishers start doing this install limit bullshit, I get concerned and think I should wait on major price drops for that actual game.

In the meantime, I really should go back and try to push myself further along in GTA: San Andreas PC and actually get it done...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 09:58:07 PM
9.0 from Eurogamer (out of 10) for GTA4 PC (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=322028)

Quote
But on other levels, it hasn't a clue. Like the vast majority of PC games, it auto-calculates its graphic settings. Unlike the vast majority of PC games, its auto-calculation is more than a little optimistic, generally underestimating what your PC can manage for the logical reason that a less-attractive game is less annoying than a less-playable one. I had to knock down the default graphic options quite a bit on my PC (dual-core 2.4GHz, 2GB RAM, 640MB GeForce 8800) until I got an acceptable rate, and even then there was the occasional really nasty drop. While my experience was more pronounced than most, speaking to other reviewers via the secret review-grapevine lead to confirmation that fiddling to get it playable was universal.

...

Any untotalling of the win happens outside the system. There's quite a lot of hoops you need to jump through outside the game. To play multiplayer, you have to have a (free, I stress) Games for Windows account plus another one for the Rockstar Social Club. You can skip the login of the latter (if you don't want multiplayer or uploading videos), but it does have to be running in the background. For Steam users, it's three processes in the background. It's not a lot of hassle, certainly, but it is a bit of hassle, and worth knowing if you're the sort who get angry when talking about DRM. While we're talking about that, there's online activation too.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, December 01, 2008, 12:14:16 AM
Holy shit, that is a huge resource hog.  It's like ever article I come across makes me not want to pay for this more.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Monday, December 01, 2008, 04:50:20 AM
You know, I am so sick of PC games getting extra non-necessary bullshit attached with them -- G4WL required on some games; Valve games require Steam; some games got nasty DRM; some games got install limits; some digitally distributed games extra-DRM on top of their digital distribution protection (Sacred 2 on Impulse has its Securom install limits with revokes allowed imposed on it (http://www.impulsedriven.com/sacred2), Crysis Warhead has install limits over Steam); etc etc.
Install limits for a Steam game?  Why?  I thought Steam was supposed to be sort of the end all, be all online store where you had the one account that everything was tied to (for better or for worse) so you make one purchase and it follows you forever?  Why put install limits on a Steam game?  Clearly it is legitimately purchased!  I know Steam games can and have been hacked, but if it's a hacked game then there are no install limits so what is the point?!  This has got to end.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Monday, December 01, 2008, 07:29:38 AM
This is getting out of hand. Next we'll need an internet connection to play singleplayer games--No wait that's already happened. We're beyond fucked at this point.

There are still a few beacons of hope scattered throughout the dark mist of DRM. I don't want to jinx them just yet.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 01, 2008, 02:27:04 PM
Holy shit, that is a huge resource hog.
Like most Rockstar PC versions.

I think the only one they really got right was GTA: Vice City PC-- I ran that on a PC below its Mhz requirement and it right fine. Everything else for requirements, I made by a fair amount.

GTA: San Andreas PC ran fine for me, but at that time, my PC was top-of-the-club. So, it was expected to run fine on that.

Quote
It's like ever article I come across makes me not want to pay for this more.
I will either wait until it gets cheaper ($10) and/or when I buy a new PC first.


Quote from: Xessive
This is getting out of hand. Next we'll need an internet connection to play singleplayer games--No wait that's already happened. We're beyond fucked at this point.
HL2 made that popular -- thanks, Valve! :(

Quote
There are still a few beacons of hope scattered throughout the dark mist of DRM. I don't want to jinx them just yet.
I thought (Stardock's) Impulse would be one of them, until I saw Sacred 2's install limits (Securom Internet Version WITH Revokes) are imposed over the Impulse edition of that game -- which is basically what Steam does with many 3rd party games.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: K-man on Monday, December 01, 2008, 03:03:14 PM
I really do hope this doesn't sour some of you guys from playing this game, whether it be on PC or one of the consoles.  Because the game really is excellent, and this coming from a guy who pretty much hated all the others.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, December 01, 2008, 03:13:09 PM
OK, reality check.  Who here doesn't own either a 360 or a PS3?  Because this game was made for these suckers, then ported to the PC.  The control devices of choice are dual analog sticks, 2 analog triggers and a slew of buttons, not KB + mouse.  I'm all for PC gaming's advantages where they count.  They don't here.  Add to that the obstacle course being laid out in front of prospective PC players, and I can only come to one conclusion.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 01, 2008, 03:25:50 PM
OK, reality check.  Who here doesn't own either a 360 or a PS3?
Me.

Quote
Because this game was made for these suckers, then ported to the PC.  The control devices of choice are dual analog sticks, 2 analog triggers and a slew of buttons, not KB + mouse.
I have the X360 Control Pad -- which plugs right into my PC USB port.

I've played a fair amount of console games that were turned into PC ports on my PC with that control pad.

I play the GTA PC games usually with KB/mouse on foot (for precision aiming purposes), X360 gamepad for driving purposes.

Quote
I'm all for PC gaming's advantages where they count.
I bet the Video Suite for the GTA4 PC will be cool.
 
Quote
They don't here.  Add to that the obstacle course being laid out in front of prospective PC players, and I can only come to one conclusion.
I think there's a lot of hurdles and annoyances here for the PC version -- which is why I posted what y'all gamers who are thinking of getting GTA4 PC might want to weigh the options on if you want to deal w/ all of these hurdles. I can't run this game anyways, so I'll sit and wait on it for it to get cheaper.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Monday, December 01, 2008, 04:24:07 PM
I borrowed GTAIV on the PS3 from my cousin. It seems decent enough but the controls can be frustrating at times. The camera seems to be the biggest factor on that since it keeps readjusting. The driving is pretty finicky too, though it's still the best driving I've experienced in a GTA game, I'm mainly comparing it to Burnout Paradise.

Overall I wasn't very impressed with graphics, but then this is a game about gameplay rather than razzle-dazzle. It just felt very 'brown' to me.

I was thinking about getting it for PC in the hope that the controls will be more to my liking, but it sounds like way too much of a hassle. I'll just suck it up and give it another go on the PS3.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 01, 2008, 04:28:57 PM
I was thinking about getting it for PC in the hope that the controls will be more to my liking, but it sounds like way too much of a hassle. I'll just suck it up and give it another go on the PS3.
I run a lot of games w/ XFire running in the background, these days -- so I can do screenies and add them directly to my profile without much hassle at all.

God, running XFire with everything GTA4 PC wants to also run at the same time (G4WL, Rockstar Social Club, and Securom drivers -- you can add Steam to the mix, if you get the Steam version of GTA4 PC) -- sound like you'd need RAM-city to run so many programs in the background! :P

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, December 01, 2008, 08:20:52 PM
OK, reality check.  Who here doesn't own either a 360 or a PS3?  Because this game was made for these suckers, then ported to the PC.  The control devices of choice are dual analog sticks, 2 analog triggers and a slew of buttons, not KB + mouse.  I'm all for PC gaming's advantages where they count.  They don't here.  Add to that the obstacle course being laid out in front of prospective PC players, and I can only come to one conclusion.

Yo, although I do plan on getting a PS3 as soon as I get off my ass and get a new tv.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, December 02, 2008, 02:57:15 PM
Looks like Andrew Burnes of Voodoo-Extreme had a hell of a time getting GTA4 PC going. (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/43301/Grand-Theft-Auto-IV-PC-Installation-Notes-Tray-App-Memory-Usage)

Quote
Grand Theft Auto IV PC Installation Notes & Tray App Memory Usage
Dec 02, 2008 at 3:30 AM - Andrew Burnes - 38 Comments

Just got done installing Grand Theft Auto IV PC following a 13.8GB .zip download, a twelve-minute extraction process and a twenty-minute 14.9GB installation. Installation would have been far speedier were it not for the file corruption caused by WinRAR. Turns out, you see, that Direct2Drive hold onto this ridiculous notion of using WinZip. Failing to follow their demands (hidden in support pages), causes one or more files to be corrupted, at which time I was required to download WinZip, re-extract the necessary file, and continue installation. Once the main files are installed you're unable to opt out of Virtual Studio installs and all kinds of other crap (I'm a good boy, I keep my software up-to-date at all times).
First off -- why would you buy it off D2D, anyways?
Even if you do get a discount (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/43301/Grand-Theft-Auto-IV-PC-Installation-Notes-Tray-App-Memory-Usage/p1/c2#97894) from there? :P


Quote
With the installation complete, I was directed to Rockstar's Social Club to tie my account to my Games For Windows info. With that done, I was allowed to boot up the actual tray app. This uses around 60MB of RAM at load, and 1-3% CPU on a Quad Core Q6600 clocked to 3GHz. Sending the app to the tray pushes RAM to 8-12MB (it bounces around randomly) and stops the CPU usage, though it does occasionally use a burst of processing power. It also adds an entry to your Windows Startup file, silently.

Inside the app, required to play GTA4 MP, there are basic pictures linked to Rockstar's Social Club, Social TV site, and the game itself. A news page notes that a Games For Windows update (22MB) is required and that it should be installed outside of the game. Turns out this is the update installed several weeks ago by Fallout 3.

With all hoops jumped, I was finally ready to play! Oh, perhaps not. Activation is required, though this is a painless key entry, done entirely over the net. Yes, now, finally, I can play!

Right, it loads fine, but I can't set texture quality to maximum because the game is mis-reporting the amount of memory on my GeForce 9800 GTX+. Render Quality is on Highest, but no combination of slider tweaking or option gimping enables High Resolution Textures. Running a benchmark, built in to the Graphics menu, returns the following results:

    CPU Usage: 32%
    System memory usage: 56%
    Video memory usage: 59%

What gives? Do I have to suffer with the Xbox 360 textures until a patch? Shame on you, Rockstar. Ah, a Command Line to set textures to maximum! Hmm, that resets all my options to minimum - I do love PC gaming so very much. What's this, another problem? Yes! I can't use Rockstar Social Club TV (the snazzy video editor) because I have Flash 10 and not Flash 9, even though a competently developed application should support Flash 10 automatically, as it's the latest, released, stable Flash client, and is also required for professional Flash tools I use daily.

What's that Lassie? You're getting a whiff of Mad Doc Software (Rockstar New England) portolitis?!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, December 02, 2008, 10:06:54 PM
Fuck this shit. Not buying the PC version, and no 360 or PS3 so....too bad for Rockstar.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, December 02, 2008, 10:13:10 PM
Fuck this shit. Not buying the PC version, and no 360 or PS3 so....too bad for Rockstar.

Arrrr, matey!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, December 02, 2008, 10:15:36 PM
Arrrr, matey!

Did you read that shit motherfucker?  A 13GB ZIP file!!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, December 02, 2008, 10:30:10 PM
lrn2broadband, noob!
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 05:09:39 AM
That is ridonkulous.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 04:56:52 PM
Fuck this shit. Not buying the PC version, and no 360 or PS3 so....too bad for Rockstar.

Not even if it was on sale in a few years for say $10?
Or even $5?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 05:33:17 PM
Dunno. Will I even care then? Will the stupid shit be patched out by then? Maybe I'll have a PS3 and just play it on there.

From some readme file on Rockstars site:
Quote
Most users using current PC hardware as of December 2008 are advised to use medium graphics settings. Higher settings are provided for future generations of PCs with higher specifications than are currently widely available.
From what I've read, dual core systems are struggling, and quad core doesn't even run it all that hot. Do they really expect people to be playing this game when they can eventually max it out? Won't they have GTA5 by then and games that look/perform even better? It just seems silly to pull the "this game is made to look better in the future"....fuck that. Make it look good and run well NOW, when its still relevant. If its good, I'll be playing it still in a few years. And if its good enough for that, then I won't give a shit that the visuals have aged slightly.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 05:48:16 PM
Does anyone even know if these games will work in a couple years with all this DRM crap on there?  I mean we already saw what happened with Starforce-protected games when Vista came out.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 05:58:09 PM
Does anyone even know if these games will work in a couple years with all this DRM crap on there?  I mean we already saw what happened with Starforce-protected games when Vista came out.

We'll just have to wait and see if the DRM-hackers crack the DRM...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 06:02:10 PM
Nope, everyone just assumes they will. Or that they will all get patched to remove the stuff. We have yet to see any of that happen.

And if anyone points at Bioshock as having the DRM removed, you can punch them in the balls for being easily mislead. The online check is still there, the DRM is still there, the only change is they stopped caring how many machines you install it on. Which doesn't solve jack shit.

And D, the DRM was already cracked out of the games...which is the other problem. Why even bother when it doesn't even do what its supposed to? GTA4 is on torrent sites already, and the cracks are already coming out.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 06:09:15 PM
Dunno. Will I even care then?
If it's a great game and I saw it cheap, for $5 -- I'd say, "Why not?"

Quote
Will the stupid shit be patched out by then?
Who knows. That would be nice, though.

Quote
Maybe I'll have a PS3 and just play it on there.
That's one solution, sure. :)

Quote
From some readme file on Rockstars site: From what I've read, dual core systems are struggling, and quad core doesn't even run it all that hot. Do they really expect people to be playing this game when they can eventually max it out?
Numerous years down the line, if you see GTA4 PC for $5 and have a bad-ass that can run it, you're good to go to run it on its maxed-out settings. :)

It's like Joe Smoe who missed Doom 3 PC (for some reason) and decided to buy it from Best Buy today on his new PC -- yeah, he'll be able to run it on Ultra. Why should he be denied the right to run it on Ultra?

Also -- if GTA4 PC is a great game, why not run reinstall it if you want to give it another go?

Still from time to time run Vampire: Bloodlines -- usually, every Halloween, it gets reinstalled, I run through the game fully, then uninstall it.

Quote
Won't they have GTA5 by then and games that look/perform even better?
Probably -- that or one of those non-numered GTA games; those side GTA games that don't take place in Liberty City.

All the Lib City ones get a new engine and a new number, basically.

Quote
It just seems silly to pull the "this game is made to look better in the future"....fuck that. Make it look good and run well NOW, when its still relevant.
I have no problem w/ them keeping those settings intact -- it just shouldn't be named as such. It should be like Doom 3 -- those setting we can't currently run should be titled like "Ultra." I mean, who in there right mind ran "Ultra" when Doom 3 came out?

Though, for GTA4, if "Medium" is the setting MODERN High-End PC's can handle, shouldn't that be have been considered like "High?"

Quote
If its good, I'll be playing it still in a few years. And if its good enough for that, then I won't give a shit that the visuals have aged slightly.
Good point.

Does anyone even know if these games will work in a couple years with all this DRM crap on there?  I mean we already saw what happened with Starforce-protected games when Vista came out.

And StarForce patched their drivers for Vista, after everybody complained about many of their SF-protected games not working on Vista.

Of course, we can always toss out the point that most SF-protected games already been cracked, anyways.

Some game companies officially removed their SF-disc check so their game could work on Vista -- i.e. X3: Reunion and Beyond Divinity.

Quote
Nope, everyone just assumes they will. Or that they will all get patched to remove the stuff. We have yet to see any of that happen.
People are also still waiting on Spore to get that revoke feature it was planned to get.

Quote
And if anyone points at Bioshock as having the DRM removed, you can punch them in the balls for being easily mislead. The online check is still there, the DRM is still there, the only change is they stopped caring how many machines you install it on. Which doesn't solve jack shit.
Bioshock PC was unofficially cracked, a long time ago.

But, yes -- honestly, Bioshock PC should have its DRM removed. The game's $20 or less, nowadays. Everybody and their cousin will pick it up, for that kind of cheap price. So, why have the DRM on the game when the game's old?

The "real point of the DRM" was to make sure those wanted say Bioshock PC first ponied $50 in the first week of release -- of course, with games often getting leaked out BEFORE the DRM is wrapped around the game, this so-called "Real point of the DRM" is quite useless.

Quote
And D, the DRM was already cracked out of the games...which is the other problem. Why even bother when it doesn't even do what its supposed to?
About dev's including DRM -- yeah, no real need for it, since they always get cracked. I don't know how much these companies spend on DRM for one game, but I think it's a waste of money.

Quote
GTA4 is on torrent sites already, and the cracks are already coming out.
No surprise.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 06:25:35 PM
I'm just wondering about something...  I just saw in the FC2 thread where Ubisoft said they intend to support the game forever to make sure it will always work.  Companies are going to have to spend resources on making sure this DRM bullshit works on future operating systems and with future patches and service packs to existing operating systems.  Is it going to end up costing them more in terms of lost consumers and support than if they had never done it at all, saving money on the support end and in licensing costs for the DRM schemes, and letting the pirates have their way?  It would be interesting if there could be a real answer to that question and I would not be surprised if the bottom line looks similar either way.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 09:00:12 PM
I'm just wondering about something...  I just saw in the FC2 thread where Ubisoft said they intend to support the game forever to make sure it will always work.  Companies are going to have to spend resources on making sure this DRM bullshit works on future operating systems and with future patches and service packs to existing operating systems.
They'll do two things -- remove the DRM or not remove it.

When a game is $10 in the store -- c'mon, who's gonna not buy the game? 
First off, it'll probably be cracked by then.

For those who do know: are there any Far Cry 2 PC cracks out there already?
Like most PC games with DRM (especially Securom-based DRM), I bet there are.

Plus, this is UbiSoft you're talking about. Given their past with what they did w/ Vegas 2 PC, in which they told Direct2Drive Edition owners to use a crack to get their game to boot up, they might just use the newest unofficial crack as their "newest patch". :oP

Quote
Is it going to end up costing them more in terms of lost consumers and support than if they had never done it at all, saving money on the support end and in licensing costs for the DRM schemes, and letting the pirates have their way?  It would be interesting if there could be a real answer to that question and I would not be surprised if the bottom line looks similar either way.
You know what they'll do?

Probably what I mentioned above -- probably just remove the protection, since that won't cost much to do.

Or, they'll do the other thing I mentioned above -- since that'll cost them NOTHING; they'll just tell us to use an unofficial crack or unofficial patch that is "at our own risk and not supported by [insert company name]".

EA is actually suggesting C&C: The First Decade owners to just use the NEWEST Unofficial Patch, for crying out loud (at their own risk, of course) -- yes, EA of all companies!! This old patch removed the disc check for most of the old games, too. Oh, and this new unofficial patch got the MP-side of many of those old C&C games going.

Oh, and Far Cry 3 will probably have a much worse protection scheme than Securom Internet Edition with revokes. :P
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 09:57:53 PM

A huge thread on Steam Forums that is dedicated to trying to solve issues w/ GTA 4 PC -- Retail and Steam Versions. (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=762088)

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 10:37:22 PM
Yeah, I've been following a thread at somethingawful.com. It looks like this a release you should stay the fuck away from for the time being.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 10:57:28 PM
When these people were called DMA Design, they released the only N64 game I know of that broke when the 4-MB RAM expansion was later added to the system.  There's just something incompetent about them that they try to brute-force their way out of, and never quite works out right because of it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, December 04, 2008, 03:05:45 PM
Wow. Read this.
1Up reports that Steam is offering refunds on a case-by-case situation to those who bought GTA4 PC over Steam (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3171648)

EDIT:
Rockstar's already working on patch for GTA4 PC (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=323971)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 06, 2008, 05:48:23 PM
GTA4 PC - NVidia Drivers
New NVidia Drivers released specifically for ONLY one game -- GTA4 PC. (http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_gtaiv_downloads.html)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, December 07, 2008, 05:28:06 AM
I just tried out GTAIV on PC! It seemed to be running fine until I realized how limited the settings are. Basically it gauges how much video memory you've got and it restricts all of your options to it. I mean you can't even put the resolution you want. It just sort of automatically does what it wants and gives you minor control over some of the options. The system I tried it on had a 22" widescreen (native res 1680x1050) and a GeForce 8800 GTS 320mb (just like mine), it wouldn't even let me choose 1280x800! It autimatically chose 800x600 with texture settings on Medium and Render on Medium. It would not allow me to raise anything at all. So I lowered texture to Low and that allowed me to raise the res to 1024x768. The framerate was not bad but it looked pretty crap; I know the system could handle a lot more.

Beside all that you have Rockstar Games Social Club (RGSC) running, which you have to sign into, GFWL running in-game, and if you have the Steam version you've got that going too. It's overkill for any game. Personally I think they should have gone with either RGSC or GFWL, not both.

Comparing the PC to the PS3 version, for some reason I'm a better driver. I tried an X360 pad and a the keyboard and I did a lot better with both on PC than the PS3 version. Not sure what it is exactly but I know I can't steer for shit when it comes to turning in the PS3 version, it's like the car refuses to make hard turns. I was comparing all the driving with Roman's car.

Anyway, I think a patch will hopefully resolve most of the issues.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, December 07, 2008, 02:15:12 PM
Roman's car sucks.  Wait till you find the good sports cars if you want decent handling.  The Ferrari clone is easy to find too.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, December 07, 2008, 03:59:44 PM
Roman's car sucks.  Wait till you find the good sports cars if you want decent handling.  The Ferrari clone is easy to find too.
Yeah, I've tried out a bunch but for the sake of comparison between the controls I was amazed at how well I was doing with Roman's car on the PC.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, December 07, 2008, 05:03:14 PM
I just tried out GTAIV on PC! It seemed to be running fine until I realized how limited the settings are. Basically it gauges how much video memory you've got and it restricts all of your options to it. I mean you can't even put the resolution you want. It just sort of automatically does what it wants and gives you minor control over some of the options. The system I tried it on had a 22" widescreen (native res 1680x1050) and a GeForce 8800 GTS 320mb (just like mine), it wouldn't even let me choose 1280x800! It autimatically chose 800x600 with texture settings on Medium and Render on Medium. It would not allow me to raise anything at all. So I lowered texture to Low and that allowed me to raise the res to 1024x768. The framerate was not bad but it looked pretty crap; I know the system could handle a lot more.

Beside all that you have Rockstar Games Social Club (RGSC) running, which you have to sign into, GFWL running in-game, and if you have the Steam version you've got that going too. It's overkill for any game. Personally I think they should have gone with either RGSC or GFWL, not both.

Comparing the PC to the PS3 version, for some reason I'm a better driver. I tried an X360 pad and a the keyboard and I did a lot better with both on PC than the PS3 version. Not sure what it is exactly but I know I can't steer for shit when it comes to turning in the PS3 version, it's like the car refuses to make hard turns. I was comparing all the driving with Roman's car.

Anyway, I think a patch will hopefully resolve most of the issues.

Is it accurately reporting your video memory?  People on SA.com were complaining that it wasn't for them and limiting their option to that far below what they could actually use.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, December 07, 2008, 05:15:30 PM
While I can see why they did that, I think it was an extremely poor approach. Also, for those who don't have STEAM, they can edit the shortcut of GTA4 to unlock all the options.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, December 07, 2008, 05:58:18 PM
Is it accurately reporting your video memory?  People on SA.com were complaining that it wasn't for them and limiting their option to that far below what they could actually use.
Yep, it's reporting it inaccurately. The number changes each time but the last time I checked it said it only has about 243mb (the card actually has 320mb). If it said 315 or 300 I'd understand but over 50mb is a significant chunk knocked down.

Now I know not to buy GTA IV, at least until the major bugs are resolved. It's a shame coz I was starting to like the gameplay and the story.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, December 07, 2008, 06:05:53 PM
HUGE thread on somethingawful.com outlining people's problems. (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2925458)

I'll probably buy this at some point.  Obviously, now's not the time.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 08, 2008, 03:24:10 PM
Here's some details of what the (first) upcoming GTA4 PC patch will have for bug fixes, issue fixes, and etc. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3171703)

Quote
Grand Theft Auto 4 PC Patch Incoming
List of bug-fixes doesn't include missing textures, framerate hiccups.
By Steve Watts, 12/08/2008

The PC version of Grand Theft Auto IV is getting a much-needed patch, according to Voodoo Extreme. Rockstar says that the patch is in the process of Microsoft certification and should be coming out soon. The press release outlines the fixes:

    * A fix to the crash after legal screen that some German customers were reporting.
    * Numerous improvements to the video editor: Smarter naming of videos, improved rendering quality, better FX during replays
    * Fix to bowling while using certain sensitive mice
    * Fix for ATI 1900 shadows
    * Overall savings to memory
    * Graphic improvements to particle systems and mirrors
    * Multiplayer character settings are preserved
    * Support for DirectInput controllers. Note: The current hack way of supporting these controllers may not work with the improved functionality. So we recommend you remove the hack before upgrading to the patch.

The report also states that issues with power management software and the Rockstar Social Club have been fixed.

Nvidia has released a new driver to improve performance, and ATI will be releasing Catalyst 8.12 on Wednesday as well.

Though any fix is welcome, the list doesn't seem to address a few of the larger complaints from the community, like framerate and texture problems. We've contacted Rockstar to see if fixes are on the way for those issues as well, so we'll keep you posted as we hear more.


EDIT:
GTA4 PC Reviews
9.0 from GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/grandtheftauto4/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary;read-review)
9.5 from GamePlanet (http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/pc/reviews/132705.Grand-Theft-Auto-IV/)
9.0 from GameZone (http://pc.gamezone.com/gzreviews/r29676.htm)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, December 12, 2008, 08:58:11 PM
First patch for GTA4 PC released. (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/43541/Grand-Theft-Auto-IV-PC-Patch-Released)

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, January 24, 2009, 06:24:37 PM
New patch 1.0.2.0 released for GTA4 PC (http://www.rockstargames.com/support/IV/PC/patch/index.html)

Quote
Version 1.0.2.0
GRAPHICS FIXES / ADDITIONS:

    * Graphics Menu:
          o Added "Water Quality", "Shadow Quality" and "Reflection Resolution" sliders in graphics menu.
          o Added "Definition" and "VSync" toggles in graphics menu.
    * Rendering optimizations.
    * VSync optimizations.
    * Nvidia 7000 series
          o Mirrors fixed

PATCH 1 FIXES:

    * Direct input device support is now disabled by default and can only be enabled with the commandline: "-usedirectinput"
    * Supported Controllers:
          o Logitech Dual Action
          o Logitech RumblePad 2
          o Logitech Cordless RumblePad 2
          o Saitek P2500
    * Supported Wheels:
    * Note: Controls are unmapped, user must map controls using Manufacturer's mapping software.
          o Logitech G25 Racing Wheel
          o Logitech Wingman Formula GP Wheel
          o Logitech MOMO Racing
          o MOMO Force
          o Driving Force Pro
          o Driving Force
          o Formula Force
    * Added Commandline "-notimefix" which will help some users who are experiencing the fast/slow gameplay issue after patch 1 was applied.
    * Fixed a bug that caused some users to experience endless looping audio effects after Patch 1 was applied.
    * Benchmark was disabling sounds after Patch 1 was applied, this is now fixed.

CRASH FIXES:

    * Unable to load game fixed - For some users, a DOS window would open and close immediately upon Game Launch, GTA IV would never launch.
    * Hang on Initial Game Loading Screen fixed - Some users experienced Character Art Loading screens in an endless loop.
    * Certain causes of the RESC10 error have been fixed (Alt-Tab, change resolution). If you experience an RESC10 error, you must restart.
    * Certain Instances of the "GRAND THEFT AUTO IV has encountered a problem and needs to close" error have been fixed.

VIDEO EDITOR:

    * Naming clips is now mandatory on Export

MULTIPLAYER:

    * Legitimate players being kicked from Multiplayer matches has been fixed.

GENERAL ADDITIONS / FIXES:

    * Wireless 360 controllers not functioning - Triggers were full on/off, fixed.
    * In the Options menu accessed from the Title Screen a “Game” section has been added with the ability to turn Clip capture on/off.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, February 15, 2009, 08:49:15 AM
This trailer for the new DLC The Lost and Damned has gotten me rather excited about it as GTA trailers usually do. (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/45452.html) Its coming out in a couple days.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, February 15, 2009, 09:39:39 AM
I'd get excited, but fuck Microsoft.  I'm not playing the game on their broken fucking console, so I guess I don't get to play it.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: sirean_syan on Sunday, February 15, 2009, 02:05:09 PM
Yeah. With all the work they seem to be putting into it you'd think they'd skip the whole exclusive thing. Hopefully that'll happen later.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: K-man on Sunday, February 15, 2009, 04:06:41 PM
Yeah. With all the work they seem to be putting into it you'd think they'd skip the whole exclusive thing. Hopefully that'll happen later.

Microsoft paid good money to make sure that doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, February 16, 2009, 06:38:12 PM
GTA IV: The Lost and The Damned - REVIEWS

Eurogamer
EIGHT from Eurogamer (out of 10) on GTA IV: The Lost and The Damned (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/grand-theft-auto-iv-the-lost-and-damned-review)
Quote
With a fulsome single-player campaign that will soak up somewhere in the region of fifteen hours of your time while threading in a genuinely memorable story, and a pile of new distractions, there's no question that Rockstar has raised the bar on what players should expect from downloadable content. This isn't the short burst of simulated history that Operation: Anchorage offered Fallout 3 fans, or the quirky asides of Fable II's Knothole Island. Instead, it's approaching the kind of package most developers would have few qualms about boxing up and selling to you full-price as an entirely new game.

Kikizo
NINE from Kikizo (out of 10) (http://games.kikizo.com/reviews/xbox360/gta-iv-the-lost-and-damned-p1.asp)
Quote
Released tomorrow via Xbox Live, The Lost and Damned is an impressive and ferocious expansion to Grand Theft Auto IV, coming good on its claim to be around one-third the size of GTA IV - it took us 11 hours to complete the main story, which once again only represents about 60-70% of overall completion based on all the other side missions and bonuses that you can get to achieve 100%.

TeamXBox
9.7 from TeamXBox (http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1655/Grand-Theft-Auto-IV-The-Lost-Damned/p1/)
 
IGN
Video review (http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14250522/grand-theft-auto-iv-downloadable-expansion-pack/videos/_gta_dlc_Review.html)
Written review (http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/954/954427p1.html)

Quote
While expansion packs that include significant single-player and multiplayer additions are old practice on PC, robust post-market content is virtually unheard of on consoles. Without question The Lost & Damned, a $20 Xbox 360 exclusive, is the meatiest DLC to date. Not only do you get a significant single-player campaign, but L&D includes 54 new music tracks, 20 new vehicles, a half-dozen new weapons, new side missions, new TV shows and new multiplayer modes. That's quite a deal when you consider the three-hour experience provided by Fallout 3's recent Operation: Anchorage DLC cost ten bucks. So rather than bother asking if it's worth it, let's just focus on how the experience stacks up against GTA IV.

...

The campaign, which can be beaten in 8-10 hours, is not one of Rockstar's stronger offerings.

...

Outside of the campaign, there's plenty to do. Getting 100% in L&D will take a good amount of time. There are 25 gang wars to be won across Liberty City, a dozen new bike races, new bike theft missions, several odd jobs to tackle for various miscreants, 50 seagulls to find and kill, a new comedy show to enjoy, some new mini-games to try once and then ignore, and full frontal nudity. Make that male full frontal nudity. That's right, Rockstar brings you Xbox 360's first downloadable dong.

GameSpot
Gamespot's take on GTA4: TLATD (http://www.gamespot.com/news/blogs/review-blog/909185210/26782744/gta-iv-the-lost-and-damned.html?tag=topslot;img;1)

GameSpy
4 1/2 stars from GameSpy (out of 5) (http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/grand-theft-auto-iv-downloadable-expansion-pack/954478p1.html)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, February 16, 2009, 09:56:31 PM
Well I can definitely pass on the downloadable dong.  Everything else seems (ironically?) more meaty.  What's the size of this thing anyway?  No, I don't mean the dong.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Monday, February 16, 2009, 11:35:08 PM
Wait? Did you just say other DLC has been more meaty? Fallout 3's and Fable 2's more meaty? Dont think so. Ive actually been underwelmed by DLC as of late. This feels more what Ive been expecting of DLC.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 12:08:01 AM
LOL!  No.  It was a joke.  Dong . . . meat . . . get it?  The rest of the GTA DLC is more meaty than the dong.   ;D
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 12:38:12 AM
Oh, heh, yea that went over my head.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, March 21, 2009, 10:34:41 AM
GTA4 PC gets its third patch.
Patch 1.0.3.0 has been released.

More gamepads have been supported (Direct Input and X-Input), more technical performance optimizations, more graphic settings added, some KB/mouse mapping restrictions removed, etc etc. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57773)

Quote
Grand Theft Auto 4 PC Patch #3 Released
by Maarten Goldstein Mar 21, 2009 11:16am CST tags: Grand Theft Auto 4

Update 1.0.3 brings improved graphics and physics performance, greater user control over graphic settings, and the elimination of remapping restrictions for keyboard and mouse.

Full change notes follow

Version 1.0.3.0 - March 19, 2009

GRAPHICS:

    * Interior Lights for ATI 1900 series cards:
          o All light sources appear for users with 1900 series ATI cards. (ie. Pool Mini Game)
          o ALT-TAB fixed
    * Graphics Settings:
          o Added menu option " OFF " for Reflection quality
          o Added menu option " OFF " for Shadow quality

PERFORMANCE:

    * Physics optimizations to improve situations with heavy physics calculations (ie. 32 player races)
    * Graphical Performance Optimizations

MULTIPLAYER:

    * NAT Type detection
          o Detect if user has a " strict " NAT and displays message for user
    * Voice chat is received even if your microphone is turned off

CONTROLS:

    * Keyboard / Mouse
          o Remapping restrictions removed
          o Allow Enter, Backspace, and Arrow keys to be remapped by user
          o Allow multiple mouse buttons to be mapped
    * Enable/Disable DirectInput in Menu
          o Users can now activate/deactivate Direct Input devices from "Controls" menu.
          o If commandline "-usedirectinput" is active, it will override pause menu setting.
    * Use 2 direct input devices simultaneously (ie. Wheel and Gamepad)
          o Users can now use 2 different controllers at once, including 1 XInput and 1 Direct Input device.
    * Added more Direct Input / XInput device support
          o Saitek P380/P480/P580/P990
          o Saitek PS1000/PS2700/P3200/P3600
          o Gravis Eliminator Shock gamepad

SECURITY:

    * Detect modified files and prevent users from entering multiplayer if found
          o Game will prompt with a message after blocking user with modified data files from entering multiplayer
          o Should prevent multiplayer access from cell phone and GFWL join in progress

VIDEO EDITOR:

    * Scroll Bar improved response
          o Tweaked to respond better to keyboard inputs
    * Sped up load times for users with many clips

TITLE UPDATE 2 FIXES:

    * Return of Hot Dog Stands and other props
          o Missing hot dog vendors, fences, gates, pylons should be present throughout the world.
    * Scrolling signboards
          o Activate missing scrolling signboard text (ie. highway signs, Star Junction, Clock Tower Sign)
    * ALT-TAB pauses game during cutscenes
          o Cutscenes should now pause and resume correctly after an ALT-TAB task switch. Audio remains in sync.

GENERAL ADDITIONS / FIXES:

    * Mismatched MODO/Perseus Clothing
          o Fixed a bug when Niko mixes clothing from Perseus and Modo
    * 360 Controller Texture
          o Controller image should be visible in Controller Configuration screen


Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, April 25, 2009, 08:14:19 AM
For GTA4 PC owners, stuttering issue has been fixed in GTA4.
Run G4WL and go grab it. (http://forums.gamesforwindows.com/p/3673/30325.aspx#30325)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 02:41:08 PM
GTA4: The Ballad of Gay Tony DLC announced for X360.
Planned for Fall 2009 to XBLive for 1600 MS Points ($20 USA).
This version of the DLC will require GTA4 to run it.

There will be eventually be a bundle of the two put forth on disc called GTA: Episodes From Liberty City -- which will contain both The Lost & Damned and Ballad of Gay Tony.
The bundle on disc won't require GTA4 it looks like.
The disc-bundle will go for $40. (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=58785)

Quote
Second GTA 4 Expansion Tells 'The Ballad of Gay Tony'
by Nick Breckon May 26, 2009 3:06pm CST tags: Grand Theft Auto 4

Rockstar today announced "The Ballad of Gay Tony," the second expansion for the fabulous Grand Theft Auto IV.

"The Ballad of Gay Tony injects Liberty City with an overdose of guns, glitz, and grime," says Rockstar of the title.

"As Luis Lopez, part-time hoodlum and full-time assistant to legendary nightclub impresario Tony Prince (aka "Gay Tony"), players will struggle with the competing loyalties of family and friends, and with the uncertainty about who is real and who is fake in a world in which everyone has a price."

EDIT, July 22nd:
Gay Tony DLC coming out Oct. 29th online.
Also, for those looking for LOTD/Gay Tony Bundle on disc, it will be released the same day in stores. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/59652)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, June 19, 2009, 01:35:02 PM
Rockstar released Patch 1.4.0 for GTA4 on the PC (http://www.rockstargames.com/support/IV/PC/patch/index.html)

Quote
Version 1.0.4.0 - June 19, 2009
Maintenance Update:

    * -Resource management adjustments based on the operating system detected.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: K-man on Thursday, August 13, 2009, 07:11:11 AM
So I scored a Special Edition of this game yesterday at my local Game Crazy for 24 bucks (which was cheaper than their price for the standalone game).  The extras are neat and everything, but I definitely would not have paid 90 bucks for it.  The bank lock box is a nifty but completely useless inclusion.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, September 01, 2009, 01:47:44 PM
GTA4: Ballad of Gay Tony DLC - Trailer. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/60276)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Tuesday, September 01, 2009, 04:59:30 PM
Damn, they always did know how to make some awesome trailers.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, September 01, 2009, 05:10:38 PM
Can't argue w/ that statement, Pyro.
I thought the trailer was kick-ass, as well.

I so hope that Lost and Damned and Gay Tony do make their way to the PC -- hopefully, on disc as an expansion pack.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, September 17, 2009, 04:06:26 PM
IGN takes on GTA4: The Ballad of Gay Tony DLC in this preview. (http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/102/1025269p1.html)

Quote
GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony Hands-On
There's no problem high explosives can't solve.
by Hilary Goldstein

September 16, 2009 - Ten minutes into my first experience with the second (and final) GTA IV downloadable episode, I hijacked a train by carrying it to an empty ballfield via helicopter. That was shortly after leaping from an overpass onto the moving train, crawling along the top and blowing a dozen pursuing attack choppers to bits. Yeah, The Ballad of Gay Tony is a little over-the-top. For those who missed the outlandishness of GTA: San Andreas, rejoice. Every mission I played from the newest episode ratchets up the ridiculousness. It's a damned good time.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 02:40:24 PM
New GTA4 PC Patch released.
And it adds Achievement for TLAD (The Lost And the Damned).
Sounds like GTA4 PC will be getting TLAD eventually.
Sweet. (http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=104166)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 05, 2009, 07:38:54 AM
Take-Two says that GTA don't need to be an annual franchise. (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/gta-doesnt-need-to-be-an-annualised-franchise-take-two)

You know, I wish more designers would take note of this and maybe just make more meatier-sized DLC (sized as say expansion packs and sold as such) for their BIG franchise game until they release the next BIG iteration in a series maybe some 3-5 years or more later.

For example, I still can't shake the feeling that say Bioshock 2 is still coming TOO soon for me - while it feels just right that Mafia 2 is coming next year in 2010.

Quote
GTA doesn't need to be an annualised franchise - Take Two

Take Two has said that Grand Theft Auto doesn't need to be an annualised franchise in order to best benefit the company.

"We don't feel that GTA ought to be an annualised franchise," Take Two chairman Strauss Zelnick told investors during an earnings call.

"There's a balance between how long it takes to develop such an incredible title... and how long you wait for the [customer's] appetite to be both satisfied and whetted for the next title. That's something I think the company has done well."

Take Two is pleased with the results of bringing GTA to new platforms, he added. "By bringing the title to handheld we achieved the highest Metacritic score ever for DS and PSP for that title. I applaud the team for doing that."

In order to optimise its release schedule over the next three years, it was confirmed that one unannounced, triple A title originally planned for next year would be moved out of the 2010 fiscal year.

"We determined we needed to make this adjustment," said Zelnick, adding that, like all of the company's triple A games, it was an important title.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: scottws on Saturday, December 05, 2009, 08:09:44 AM
In other words:  "We saw the total sales for each iteration trending downwards and decided to take a break so we don't completely ruin the franchise."
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 05, 2009, 09:55:57 AM
In other words:  "We saw the total sales for each iteration trending downwards and decided to take a break so we don't completely ruin the franchise."
That too - hehe.
 
Instead of having Rockstar put out next iteration after next iteration of GTA, Take-Two can rely on one of their other franchises - Bioshock; Mafia; Borderlands; Civ; or any other big new franchises that start up; etc etc.

I like seeing new IP's come about.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 20, 2009, 09:00:17 AM
GTA4 DLC sells WAY less than Take-2 expected. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177401)

Quote
GTA4 DLC Sold "Less than Expected"
Take-Two attributes underwhelming sales to a lack of "initial launch fervor."
By Kris Pigna, 12/19/2009

Ballad of Gay Tony

Grand Theft Auto 4 was one of the biggest games of the decade, so why, then, is Take-Two interactive not experiencing the same runaway sales success with the game's two downloadable episodes, The Lost and Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony? According to CEO Ben Feder, it may be a matter of timing -- and a huge loss of marketing momentum.

"Both we and Microsoft believe there was a big market for GTA 4 episodic content," said Feder during an investors conference call (via Kotaku). "And some factors have affected their performance. Both were released significantly after the core unit ... GTA 4, which was launched in April of 2008 and therefore weren't able to leverage GTA 4's initial marketing campaign and initial launch fervor."

While sales figures for the episodes -- which were released first as separate $20 downloads and later packaged together on a disc as "Episodes of Liberty City" -- haven't been divulged, Wedbush Morgan Securities analyst Michael Pachter estimated sales for the disc were around 100,000 in the U.S. "Episodes From Liberty City seems to have been most appealing to those who have finished GTA 4 and wanted more story and gameplay," Feder said. "Which is a smaller market than initially expected."

Let us recall that Microsoft paid a whopping $50 million to keep the GTA 4 episodic content exclusive to the Xbox 360.
With that taken into account, would the "smaller than expected" market be considered a tremendous failure? Not necessarily, as Feder said the episodes were already profitable (for Take-Two, anyway), and they expect sales to continue for some time.

"There's very little precedent for this type of episodic content at the price point that we offered it. And so we're confident that these titles will continue to have a long life, just as we've seen a long life from all of our other prior GTA releases."
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:53:07 AM
Good, I hope they fail miserably.  Fucking exclusive DLC can kiss my ass.  Rot in hell, Take 2.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 20, 2009, 12:00:00 PM
Good, I hope they fail miserably.  Fucking exclusive DLC can kiss my ass.  Rot in hell, Take 2.

I dunno how long those 2 DLC's will stay exclusive to X360 alone, Que.
PC version's latest patch included all the GTA: The Lost And The Damned achievements.
I think TLATD might be coming to G4WL.

I'm surprised the GTA4 DLC failed - since these packs pretty much offer up for $20 each expansion-pack worthy length of content.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 20, 2009, 12:02:20 PM
Yay, so we get to play the DLC years after it came out.  Who fucking cares?  I mean, I have no interest in GTAIV anymore anyway, and got really bored with it before the end of the stock game.  I just think this exclusivity shit is shady and shouldn't be happening.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 20, 2009, 12:08:35 PM
Yay, so we get to play the DLC years after it came out.  Who fucking cares?  I mean, I have no interest in GTAIV anymore anyway, and got really bored with it before the end of the stock game.  I just think this exclusivity shit is shady and shouldn't be happening.
It's about time PC version is getting the DLC - we don't deserve to be left out of the mix. Sure, it's way late - but at least we're getting it. I'm tired of PC versions getting screwed out of DLC and not getting DLC period.

Honestly, they should launch DLC for all versions around the same time, if you ask me. Like within say a two month window - like Borderlands has been doing for console and PC.

Quote
I just think this exclusivity shit is shady and shouldn't be happening.
Oh, I agree w/ that 100%.

EDIT:
You know, Que - I wouldn't be surprised if GTA4 PC gets a re-release w/ all the DLC content on disc, at some later date.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 05:11:59 PM
Another game w/ sound problems for me. Grrrrr. Game graphically runs fine w/ all stuff on Medium on 1024x768 on my single-core processor w/ 8800 GT RAM. But, here's the problem - the sound is all stuttering like a son-of-a-gun. Sound card drivers up-to-date and all for my RealTek Audio on-board sound card.

So, I've had sound-card troubles on my PC w/ a handful of games - Prototype, Divinity 2 Demo, Borderlands (intro vid only - otherwise the game is fine), and now freakin' GTA4. Seems like the list of games I got issues w/ on my (Aging) on-board sound card is just growing and growing.

So - what is a good modern day sound card period? How much is it?
Okay, also - what's good for around say $50? $100? $150?

EDIT:
Fixed the sound issue myself.
Threw GTAIV.exe into the FFDShow exceptions list.
Sound is perfect now.
Back to the game.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Friday, January 29, 2010, 10:20:25 AM
DLC packs to be released on PC and PS3 in March. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62151)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, January 29, 2010, 02:38:25 PM
DLC packs to be released on PC and PS3 in March. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62151)

Sweet.
Better late than never.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:15:28 PM
Does anyone really care at this point?  I got bored with the game before I even finished it, and having separate little stories doesn't appeal to me.  If they were to add more city or more *detail* to the original city... that would be worth noting.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:39:14 PM
Does anyone really care at this point?
Me.

Quote
If they were to add more city or more *detail* to the original city... that would be worth noting.
That'd be cool, too. :)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, March 18, 2010, 05:55:08 PM
GTA: Episodes from Liberty City for PC and PS3 delayed by two weeks (now April 13th in USA; April 16th elsewhere).

The PS3 PAL version is having some "minor content changes" done at Sony Europe's request just to make them happy. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178416)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 02:39:35 PM
GTA4 PC Version patched again (Patch #6).
Things worth noting: Rockstar Club Program NO LONGER required to launch game and improved performance (especially w/ Shadows).
 (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/63282)

Quote
Grand Theft Auto 4 PC Patch Improves Shadows, Removes Social Club App
by Alice O'Connor Apr 13, 2010 1:00pm
CST tags: Grand Theft Auto 4

Coinciding with the launch of Grand Theft Auto IV's downloadable content 'The Ballad of Gay Tony' and 'The Lost and Damned' on PC today, Rockstar has released a new patch for the open-world murder simulator available in a 104MB download on FileShack.

The patch brings better-looking shadows as well as performance optimisations and bug fixes, and finally removes the need to run that irksome Rockstar Games Social Club application before you can play the game. The full changelog follows below.

    GTA IV Title Update 1.0.6.0 \ 1.0.5.1 \ 1.0.4.2 (Patch 6)

        * Rockstar Games Social Club
              o Remove Rockstar Games Social Club application
              o Separate RGSC application no longer required to launch game
              o Social Club login now occurs during the launch process
        * Shadows
              o A new, less memory-intensive, and better-looking scalable shadow solution has been implemented
              o Enhanced Night Shadows added with user-selectable level of detail (replaces Shadow Density)
        * Performance
              o Rendering optimizations have been made to improve performance, particularly when enabling shadows
              o User-configurable graphics settings have been added for shadow control
              o Improved memory management
        * Multiplayer
              o Enhanced security to isolate users from cheaters and hackers
        * Episodic Content
              o Provide in-game support to purchase "The Lost and Damned" and "The Ballad of Gay Tony" (Not available in Russian/Japanese Versions)
        * Bug Fixes
              o Vehicle shadows re-enabled between 8pm and 6am
              o Fix floating street textures
              o Pedestrians in vehicles appear further out from the player to allow for long range sniping
              o The Moon has been implemented with simulated lunar phases
              o Fixed garbled text in Japanese Multiplayer menus
              o "RESC 10" error fix for specific hardware configuration
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 02:35:35 PM
I'm waiting until it's $7-10 again.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 03:11:27 PM
I'm waiting until it's $7-10 again.
It's easily worth that, from what I've played, so far.
Got about 40 hours or so logged into it, according to Steam.

I should note - GTA4 PC does run better, thanks to the new patch. I was running 800x600 w/ most stuff on Low, but now Shadows is on Medium.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, May 02, 2010, 05:56:24 PM
Finished GTA4 PC not too long ago tonight.

For those curious of how things went for me...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, June 01, 2010, 02:29:50 PM
GTA4 PC and Episodes from Liberty City PC have been patched through G4WL. (http://www.bluesnews.com/s/110780/gta4-and-episodes-from-liberty-city-patched)

Quote
Episodes From Liberty City

v. 1.1.2.0

    * fixed a bug causing tree leaves to look transparent
    * fixed a bug that prevented uploading of rendered videos to Social Club when attaching music tracks from The Ballad of Gay Tony
    * fixed for clip capture "OFF" slowdowns occurring when near water's edge
    * fixed for slowdown occurring when getting in a boat during "Sexy Time" mission in The Ballad of Gay Tony
    * exposed "detonate" in custom key mapping options menu for Lost and Damned so users can remap "down" arrow key
    * EFLC now has it's own settings file called "SETTINGS_EFLC.CFG" to avoid possible conflicts with GTA IV installation

Grand Theft Auto IV

v. 1.0.7.0 / 1.0.6.1 (Russian) / 1.0.5.2 (Japanese)

    * fixed a bug causing tree leaves to look transparent
    * fixed a bug that prevented uploading of rendered videos to Social Club when attaching certain music tracks
    * fixed for clip capture "OFF" slowdowns occurring when near water's edge
    * exposed "detonate" in custom key mapping options menu for Grand Theft Auto IV: The Lost and Damned so users can remap "down" arrow key.

Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, October 04, 2010, 08:43:01 PM
Kotaku -> GTA IV: Complete Edition listed on Amazon.
GTA IV: Complete will contain GTA IV + The Lost And The Damned + Ballad of Gay Tony. (http://kotaku.com/5655613/grand-theft-auto-iv-the-complete-edition-coming-soon?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+kotaku%2Ffull+%28Kotaku%29)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: idolminds on Monday, October 04, 2010, 09:47:20 PM
Good thing I waited.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 05, 2010, 06:02:36 AM
Good thing I waited.

At least if you did say buy GTA4 on disc for PC/Consoles - if you avoided the DLC route...
All the DLC was packaged together on disc as GTA: Episodes From Lib City (Lost & Tony) - unlike SOME other games I can think of...
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: PyroMenace on Tuesday, October 05, 2010, 06:27:41 AM
I still want to play Ballad of Gay Tony. I like coming back to GTA4 after prolonged periods of having not played the game. It still looks good and nobody still hasn't made a open world game as good as Liberty City. Lost and the Damned was totally awesome too, probably the best DLC to come out for a game.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 05, 2010, 07:13:59 AM
I still want to play Ballad of Gay Tony. I like coming back to GTA4 after prolonged periods of having not played the game. It still looks good and nobody still hasn't made a open world game as good as Liberty City. Lost and the Damned was totally awesome too, probably the best DLC to come out for a game.

I bought GTA4 (during that $7.49 sale) and Episodes from Lib City from Steam ($15 during a sale).
I did finish GTA4 - which I thought was really good.
I should make some space on my first HDD drive for EFLC.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, October 05, 2010, 08:07:08 AM
I still want to play Ballad of Gay Tony. I like coming back to GTA4 after prolonged periods of having not played the game. It still looks good and nobody still hasn't made a open world game as good as Liberty City. Lost and the Damned was totally awesome too, probably the best DLC to come out for a game.

Now I want to jump in too.  I never did check out the DLC for this game.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, September 06, 2011, 07:02:41 PM
GTA: Vice City Rage - upcoming mod to bring GTA: Vice City over onto GTA4 [RAGE Engine].
Planned for X-Mas 2011. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFfcCApgsKQ&feature=player_embedded#!)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, April 10, 2018, 03:40:27 PM
All the GTA4 Fans of the world, be ready & prepared just in case songs could get removed/patched-out:
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2018/04/09/some-of-gta-ivs-music-licenses-expire-later-this-month-and-songs-will-be-removed

Music license is supposedly at the end of this month for GTA4's Music.

Might want to back-up your game-folder, music folder/files, and whatnot....just in case.

Of course, if you already own any songs on MP3 format that get removed - you could always put them in the game's MP3 Radio Station.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, April 11, 2018, 06:22:46 AM
Removed how?  If I have a game on my system, especially one that old, it takes action from me for anything to happen to it.  Does Steam regularly reach in and delete stuff from your hard drive?
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, April 11, 2018, 03:36:51 PM
Removed how?  If I have a game on my system, especially one that old, it takes action from me for anything to happen to it.  Does Steam regularly reach in and delete stuff from your hard drive?

Steam games can force updates when you log into Steam.

Even if you tell a game in your Preferences to only update when necessary - any forced-updates from the dev's and pub's can override this setting. You'll just have to deal with it, TBH.

They (Steam, dev's, pub's, etc) can replace the old grouped-file pack of music (which has music files inside it) with an empty pack. Or, they can place a file in there w/ less music that has a newer file updated date. This will force Steam to replace the old file w/ the newer file.

My suggestions, you can do a few things.

01. Back-up your GTA4 game-folder in full now. Just remember, both GTA4 PC and EFLC are each about 16GB or piece! If you're that worried about everything, do this!

02. Just back-up the music folders/files from GTA4 game-folder elsewhere, as long as it's outside of your Steam folder. This way, you always have it - just in case you can manipulate the files now or later.

03. Find a program or app that can extract the music files and stick them elsewhere, just not in the Steam folder. GTA's popular, so...I'd guess they might use a file format that some app can extract already or some modders already wrote a program to deal w/ this. (i.e. In GTA5, OpenIV can extract GTA5's music files).

04. Find out the GTA4 Soundtrack songs. Here's that list: http://gta.wikia.com/wiki/Radio_Stations_in_GTA_IV
Anything you already own on CD, MP3, FLAC, WAV, or whatever - convert it to MP3 and toss into the GTA4 MP3 Radio Station's music folder.

05. Wait for the hopefully inevitable mod that has all of the old music files and put them back where they belong. For example: Mafia 1 has been through similar situation, where a lot of the music's been removed - but there is a mod now, on the PC, which has all the old music files.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, January 12, 2020, 07:01:02 AM
PC Gamer - GTA4 has been removed for purchasing from Steam:
https://www.pcgamer.com/gta-4-is-no-longer-being-sold-on-steam/

So, here's some guesses to what could be the reasoning.
Could be any of these, a few of these...or something else:
1. Rockstar could been removing Microsoft's old G4WL...and maybe replacing it with their own Rockstar Launcher.
2. Maybe Steam ran out of G4WL keys for GTA4 (since it uses that)...and needs to get them refilled from Microsoft and Rockstar.
3. Rockstar could be doing a remaster for GTA4 maybe.
4. Music licenses again have expired for some songs...and they need to be removed or replaced.
5. Rockstar is just pulling the game from Steam period.

I'm sure, we'll maybe find out sooner or later, why it got pulled from being able to purchase over on Steam.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Monday, January 13, 2020, 04:26:19 PM
They (Rockstar and Steam) ran out of G4WL (Games For Windows Live) activation keys:
https://www.polygon.com/2020/1/13/21063575/grand-theft-auto-4-pc-steam-games-for-windows-live-gta4

Info:
- GTA4 and EFLC still uses the old G4WL activation system.
(Side note: Microsoft now uses the Xbox for PC App / Windows 10 Game Store)
- GTA4 on Steam ran out of keys for G4WL.
- B/c Microsoft doesn't use the system anymore, no new keys can be generated for this game.
- Rockstar is looking into another system to handle the game. (Hmmm, maybe Steamworks or Rockstar Launcher?)
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, February 20, 2020, 06:04:51 PM
Grand Theft Auto IV and Episodes from Liberty City news:

Given what's happening with GTA4/EFLC on Steam, it might be worthwhile to back-up the old GTA4 base-game and GTA: EFLC folders before 3/19/2020.

GTA4/EFLC from Steam, as long as you have the files somewhere, they can be launched w/out Steam (like many G4WL-based games on Steam) - so, you might want to copy & rename those old folders somewhere else.

Looks like w/ the planned 3/19 Steam-update to move everyone to GTA4: Complete Edition...we're losing G4WL, Multiplayer (which was on G4WL), Leaderboards, and some Radio Stations (i.e. the EFLC stations) in an update:
https://steamcommunity.com/games/12210/announcements/detail/3176663794401897532

Also, looks like retail keys will activate up also to get the new GTA4: Complete version - not sure if that'll activate up on Steam, RSSC, or where though - but, I'm guessing RSSC activation.
Title: Re: Grand Theft Auto 4
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, March 21, 2020, 03:54:13 PM
Grand Theft Auto IV: Complete Edition is back on Steam:
https://www.pcgamer.com/grand-theft-auto-4-is-back-on-steam-and-has-been-upgraded-to-the-complete-edition/

Info:
- If you owned GTA4 (base game) or Episodes From Liberty City (stand-alone DLC pack) on Steam, you now have been upgraded to Complete Edition (with both altogether).
- GTA4: Complete Edition owners on Steam, you now have the new Complete Edition.
- CD Keys can activate-up on Rockstar Game Launcher.
- Saves files from old versions of GTA4 & EFLC are compatible w/ the new one.
- Multiplayer component & online Leaderboards has been removed.
- RamJam FM, Self-Actualization FM and Vice City FM have also been taken out of the roster of radio stations.