Author Topic: The Official BioShock thread.  (Read 109981 times)

Offline scottws

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #280 on: Saturday, September 01, 2007, 05:23:31 PM »
Maybe the shader in DX10 is more efficient and the devs used the texture in DX9 to use system resources for other graphical goodness?  Just a guess, I have no idea.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #281 on: Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 06:54:45 AM »
WARNING - the following is a discussion about intimate plot details and contains basically every spoiler it could possibly contain:

Street Lights as Fairgrounds: Strangely About Fate.

Well worth a read.  For all its efforts at trying to say something interesting (and it certainly does), I think what it comes down to is that no  matter how much your design document reads about player choice, you're still making a game, and you've still got limited resources to do it.  There's only so much that can be done with limited time, money, people, and technology, especially in a fast-paced market that refuses to stand still for you on any level whatsoever.  Because of this, BioShock simply could never be the exercise in player choice that it truly wanted to be, instead having to make several lackluster choices to necessitate its completeness, it's END as a story and a game.

Still, it's a great read.  I continue to assert that the game was just as fun after the big revelation as it was before it, but this is because I realize that a game can only provide choice and freedom to a certain degree, particularly where moral choices, character mindset, and overall outcome are concerned.

So yeah, give it a read and discuss.  We could use more game journalism like this.  Somebody should give the man a medal.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #282 on: Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 02:15:57 PM »
That was definitely a good read.  He analyzed the game to a degree I had not even considered.  I disagree about the up-front clarity of the moral choice.

(click to show/hide)

I found his commentary on art educational.  He makes some excellent points.  He uses Bioshock's approach up to a certain point as an example of how an interactive experience may fit a rigidly defined mold of what is art.

(click to show/hide)

Thanks for the link.  Never would have found it on my own.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #283 on: Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 04:27:23 PM »
I bought the game a couple of days ago. Haven't gotten around to it yet. Don't have a lot of time these days, but will find some for this baby.

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #284 on: Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 04:42:40 PM »
Still, it's a great read.  I continue to assert that the game was just as fun after the big revelation as it was before it, but this is because I realize that a game can only provide choice and freedom to a certain degree, particularly where moral choices, character mindset, and overall outcome are concerned.
I agree -- b/c if there is to really be a sequel to Bioshock, the designers are gonna' have to basically "pick an ending" as the "True" Ending of the game, so they can set-up one exact point where Bioshock 2 begins -- especially since you have a "Good" And "Evil" ending here in Bioshock, in which I'm guessing the two endings will probably conflict w/ each other. So, they'll probably pick one ending from Bioshock 1 to actually begin Bioshock 2, if they want the same lead character to return.

Now, on another hand, Deus Ex 2 did a very interesting thing -- they decided that ALL THREE ENDINGS HAPPENED from Deus Ex 1, which is VERY interesting, indeed; since there's no real moral choices of a conflicting good and bad in any of the game's endings, by the player. All THREE endings are basically a "bunch of events that occurred," designed in such that none of them would conflict w/ each other. It wasn't a point where say if Ending A occurred, Ending B can't. It was Ending A, B, or C could all happen -- possibly, even altogether. So, Ion Storm never really had to decide "which ending occurred." They took them all. Quite genius, if you ask me.

Now, I come back to STALKER -- b/c for an action game, there's 7 different endings, in total. This one  game has 2 different branching directions you can go in, right near the very end of the game. There's a branching point, where the game shoots off in two directions, namely. It's up to you, to decide which way to go -- both, which are different and lead to a different set of endings.

STALKER Spoilers Of "The Two Branching Pathways"
(click to show/hide)

Now, depending on which road of the two roads you chose, if you did (or didn't do) certain particular quests in the game, AND what some stats of your character actually are, you can get a different ending.

After The Big Twist In Bioshock Spoilers....
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Quote
So yeah, give it a read and discuss.  We could use more game journalism like this.  Somebody should give the man a medal.
Hell of a read -- I agree w/ that.

Regardless of what people think of Bioshock, it's a great action game -- one of the best, w/ an outstanding story. That's what it is, from start to finish, more so than anything -- an action game w/ a hell of a story.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #285 on: Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 07:17:05 PM »
And while this doesn't so much relate to the current discussion, I'd just like to say that I'm having emotional difficulty with my 2nd run through the game.

Sort-of spoilers (nothing terribly specific, but you'll be able to infer something you might not want to):

(click to show/hide)

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #286 on: Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 07:36:25 PM »
Que, it looks like Irrational has succeeded in making you think twice about your actions in the game and have really done their job -- and done it damn well.

(click to show/hide)

Maybe if I say the right words, you will do so....
(click to show/hide)




Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #287 on: Wednesday, September 05, 2007, 05:57:46 PM »
I've played the game several times now and I could never follow the evil path a 2nd time.  It's only because I didn't know which was which that I did it my first time through. 

Not too much of a
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Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #288 on: Thursday, September 06, 2007, 03:39:04 PM »
**SPOILERS in link below**

Bwahahaha!!  (Ow, my sides hurt.)  Not that I agree with the whole thing, but it's hilarious.

Edit:  Updated link.  And here is the FLV itself, in case you want to save it for posterity.
« Last Edit: Sunday, September 09, 2007, 12:21:15 PM by Cobra951 »

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #289 on: Thursday, September 06, 2007, 04:38:32 PM »
Bwahahaha!!  (Ow, my sides hurt.)  Not that I agree with the whole thing, but it's hilarious.

Though, if you ain't finished the game yet, it does have SPOILERS in it.

That vid was fuckin' hilarious!!! :)

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #290 on: Thursday, September 06, 2007, 07:42:28 PM »
That's bloody brilliant.  I agree with 90% of what he said, but in the end I think it all sort of works to the game's advantage.  I mean, there are things that could be improved, and I definitely have gripes and stuff, but... yeah, anyway.  Great stuff.  I'm working on a full review now which I should have available for people shortly.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #291 on: Thursday, September 06, 2007, 07:56:03 PM »
That's bloody brilliant.  I agree with 90% of what he said, but in the end I think it all sort of works to the game's advantage.  I mean, there are things that could be improved, and I definitely have gripes and stuff, but... yeah, anyway.  Great stuff.
Zero Punctuation has some funny reviews, to say the least -- from their Psychonauts review to his take on The Darkness Demo.


Quote
I'm working on a full review now which I should have available for people shortly.
Ooooh, I can't wait!

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #292 on: Thursday, September 06, 2007, 09:36:40 PM »
These aren't spoilers, they're just environmental images, but just in case you're the kind of person who's like, omfg I saw a tree, the game is ruined for me... spoilers tags are here for you.

Anyway, this is how good BioShock can look.  I'll be damned if it isn't the prettiest game I've ever seen at times.

(click to show/hide)

And how did I take those magical screens without my weapons and HUD getting in the way?  See the following nifty threads (PC users only, of course):

Console command list + links to other stuff.
Pseudo-console idea using .TXT files and the EXEC command.
An apparently working pseudo-console using the above concept.

I love this community.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #293 on: Friday, September 07, 2007, 02:08:44 PM »
That's pretty much what it looks like on the 360, at 1280x720 anyway.  The window into it not as tall, as we all know from the FOV firestorm.  The sacrifice on the 360 is that textures can pop into objects after you're fairly close to them, no doubt the combination of limited memory and DVD seek times.  It certainly beats hitching, which happens almost never.  (I had horrendous hitching in one area once, so I quit, cleared the cache, then it was fine.)  One place that hitches every time is when I kill a security camera.  Definite room for improvement.  Overall, I'm very impressed with the graphics and performance.  With the frame rate unlocked, movement is perfectly fluid consistently.  I really, really wish I could take screen pics like those.

Offline Jedi

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #294 on: Friday, September 07, 2007, 06:26:30 PM »
That's pretty much what it looks like on the 360, at 1280x720 anyway. 

Agreed - but I haven't seen any of the other glitch that a few people have encountered... yet.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #295 on: Friday, September 07, 2007, 07:56:24 PM »
Glitch?  None here to speak of.  The ultra-hitchy spot only happened once, and then only after playing the game about 5 times.

Offline Jedi

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #296 on: Friday, September 07, 2007, 11:20:39 PM »
Yeah I shouldn't have said glitch. I meant to say texture pop ups.... which at the time I didn't notice but just after pasting I played the game and saw some texture pop ups on a few faces.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #297 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 10:55:08 AM »
The lack of AA hurts it a little bit.  I'm not one to generally use it because of my card, but a couple of the screens I took would have benefited quit a bit I think.

Also, apparently FRAPS doesn't do the best job taking JPG screens.  I'm noticing compression in a lot of these that I didn't see before.  Fugly.

EDIT - Pictures from the launch party.  I'll be damned if I don't want to see the female thuggish splicer without all that makeup.  She looks like she'd be super cute under all the foam latex.

EDIT x2 - Huge list of commands with screens... lots of fun.
« Last Edit: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 11:30:21 AM by Quemaqua »

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline JacksRag(e)

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #298 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 12:54:06 PM »
I think there is AA actually.  I just went to my Nvidia control panel and forced AA for Bioshock.  To me, all the edges and whatnot look smoother after enabling it.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #299 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 01:05:25 PM »
Yeah, there just isn't any you can turn on within the game, apparently.  It's supposed to be possible for DX10 because it uses a DX10-specific kind of AA, but I guess that doesn't work for some reason.  Or something.  I don't know.  I haven't followed it closely because I'd never be able to run the game successfully with AA on.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #300 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 01:26:38 PM »
I could really go for a Bioshock Expansion Pack, myself....

I know, Bioshock 2 is more likely to probably occur, but I really want some new Bioshock content like soon...




Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #301 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 02:28:24 PM »
Quote from: Gamers with Jobs
"Andrew Ryan is Ayn Rand meets Howard Hughes," explains Levine.

From this piece.

I thought so, but it wasn't until I saw a biographical show on TV today, "Howard Hughes: The Real Aviator", that it became painfully obvious.  Heh.  Nothing new, since it came right from the horse's mouth.  I just hadn't heard it mentioned before.


Howard Hughes, 1947

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #302 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 04:41:25 PM »
The "Would you Kindly...?" Phrase Repetition
(click to show/hide)



Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #303 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 05:01:22 PM »
You lost me.

(click to show/hide)

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #304 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 05:06:04 PM »
All Spoilers about "Would You Kindly...?"

You lost me.

(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #305 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 05:14:29 PM »
Oh, come on.

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Offline JacksRag(e)

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #306 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 05:36:56 PM »
(click to show/hide)

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #307 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 08:56:56 PM »
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)



Offline scottws

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #308 on: Saturday, September 08, 2007, 11:13:08 PM »
**SPOILERS in link below**

Bwahahaha!!  (Ow, my sides hurt.)  Not that I agree with the whole thing, but it's hilarious.
Awww, they took it down!

Edit:  Nevermind, found it.

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #309 on: Sunday, September 09, 2007, 02:15:20 AM »
Awww, they took it down!

Edit:  Nevermind, found it.
Haha again hilarious :P

I need this game now!

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #310 on: Sunday, September 09, 2007, 03:08:58 AM »
And no, D, I doubt anyone would be daft enough to waste their fucking time counting such a thing, let alone admit to anyone else that they were stupid enough to do so.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Jedi

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #311 on: Sunday, September 09, 2007, 04:20:07 AM »
And no, D, I doubt anyone would be daft enough to waste their fucking time counting such a thing, let alone admit to anyone else that they were stupid enough to do so.

I bet D would. :-[

Offline iPPi

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Offline Xessive

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Offline iPPi

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #314 on: Thursday, September 13, 2007, 07:38:43 AM »
You know, in retrospect, I thought I saw it already.  My friend linked it to me yesterday and thought it hilarious, but was probably too preoccupied with other things to notice that a) I saw it already, and b) it was posted here already.

Yay for work, study, and WoW taking up all my time.

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #315 on: Thursday, September 13, 2007, 10:27:38 AM »
Hehe no worries mate, it was amusing enough to warrant a second post :P

Offline scottws

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #316 on: Thursday, September 13, 2007, 12:31:00 PM »
I did finish Bioshock the other night.  I'm kind of torn how I felt.  It was a pretty unique game with unique ideas and the art design was really top-notch.

In terms of fun-factor though... I'm not so sure.  I basically forced myself to finish it.  It wasn't like HL2 where I was completely in awe and played it during any free time I had and finished it in 3 days.

I didn't dislike the game.  Don't get me wrong.  But I wasn't as engrossed in it as I felt like I was supposed to be based upon what I was seeing from some of the other posts on this board.

I was kind of curious about the plot...
(click to show/hide)

Does anyone else have any thoughts on that matter?

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #317 on: Thursday, September 13, 2007, 08:17:14 PM »
There are multiple problems with Rapture.  Is it even possible?  How deep is it?  The "skyline" makes it look like there as skyscrapers underwater.  Wouldn't the pressure make regularly shaped buildings impossible at depths over 1000 feet?  Even dismissing this, what would it take to build?  The logistics, and the transportation of huge volumes of materials would be staggering.  Then we're asked to believe that this all happened in the 1940s.  And why did Ryan choose this venue?  Don't tell me a guy this powerful couldn't have bought some good-sized remote island, and then set it up as an independent principality.  Imagine the economy in resources which could have then been invested in something more rewarding than keeping out the water.

I guess we're asked to ignore all the major showstoppers and accept that this place exists, in its crumbling state, to give us a fun place to play, shoot and use plasmids.   :)

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #318 on: Thursday, September 13, 2007, 08:37:10 PM »
In response to Scott:  Well, I certainly disagree as I got sick of HL2 long before the climax.  The general design philosophy made me cringe.  I knew as soon as I saw a new game mechanic that it was all I'd be doing for the next couple levels, so instead of it being "Oh dude, look at this cool new thing!" it became "Fuck, I'm going to have to do this 8 billion times before they decide to show me something else".  BioShock had some design issues here and there as well, but what I think really worked in its favor (at least for me) was that if something ever became tiresome, I just tried something else.  I mean, you could do that and pay the game that way.  And I didn't nearly exhaust all the different possibilities upon the end of my first game.

As for the plot...

(click to show/hide)

Anyway, you also said that you didn't like System Shock 2, right?  Hence it doesn't surprise me one bit that BioShock isn't quite your cup of tea.  BioShock is very different from Shock 2 in certain fundamental ways, but the two games share an awful lot of similarities just the same.

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Offline scottws

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #319 on: Thursday, September 13, 2007, 09:02:22 PM »
(click to show/hide)
I guess I'll have to accept Cobra's explanation... that it's just a fun, cool environment to play a videogame.

It's not that I didn't like System Shock 2.  I just didn't like the respawning and I could never figure out how to beat the first level.  I either got pummeled to death by the endless horde or got wasted by some robot.