Author Topic: Doom 4 announced  (Read 15652 times)

Offline idolminds

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #40 on: Friday, July 18, 2014, 07:28:43 PM »
Focusing on melee seems kind of weird, but Id have to see it. So Guess I'll still keep waiting.

In some interesting semi-related news one of the head graphics guys at Crytek had left to join id.

Offline W7RE

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #41 on: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 12:03:20 AM »
I just loaded up Doom 3 to play a bit, and started a new game. I instantly realized what bothers me most about the game: story. not hat the old Doom games didn't have story, but it was in a booklet or at the end of the episode, not a long ass unskippable intro at the beginning.


TTD (time to demon, the first chance to kill something):
Doom: 6 seconds
Doom 2: 0 seconds
Doom 3: 18 minutes (13 minutes until you get a gun)

Once Doom 3 gets going, it's pretty good. It's a linear shooter, but it's a decent one. Moving through the levels and shooting things is fun, but it takes entirely too long to get to it.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #42 on: Sunday, July 20, 2014, 01:39:27 PM »
I've never really played through Doom 3.  I'm guessing I should?

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #43 on: Sunday, July 20, 2014, 02:27:25 PM »
I'm not too keen a run'n'gun shooter, then again I wasn't particularly excited about Wolfenstein: The New Order but I loved it.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday, July 22, 2014, 12:17:59 AM »
Huh. Well I'll be. Wasn't expecting that, no idea what to think about it.

Doom 3 isn't really a must-play at this point, but I still love it. I thought the story stuff was cool, setting up some of the backstory and atmosphere. Obviously different from the originals, but still pretty cool. I really loved that game. It feels a little less organic now, a bit stiff and mechanical, but the game itself is still solid and fun, and the atmosphere is great. When it was fresh, man, that engine was a wonder.

I'll be interested to see what eventually happens with Doom 4. I'd love to see id finally make a real comeback and surprise everybody. I think their legacy earns them a deserving chance, but I guess at this point it's just a question of whether or not they've got the people in their employ to really make something different.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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« Last Edit: Saturday, May 07, 2016, 06:44:05 PM by MysterD »

Offline W7RE

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #46 on: Saturday, May 14, 2016, 08:33:40 AM »
Doom 2016 has been out for about a day a half, and I've spent more time in Snapmap than anything else. I've only completed the first campaign mission because I've been learning the ins and outs of map making instead. The selection of environment pieces seems a little lackluster, but once you start digging into the feature you see there's some cool stuff you can do with it and I don't think I've even scratched the surface of what it can do.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #47 on: Saturday, May 14, 2016, 09:23:00 AM »
I've been playing the campaign and it's quite fun. It feels like Quake, which was meant to feel like Doom.

The multiplayer is a medley of versus modes and feels like a cross between Halo and Quake 3.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #48 on: Saturday, May 14, 2016, 02:45:27 PM »
Agreeeeed....

Though in the end I liked Doom III lots.

What was I even trying to say here? It's so weird to see a post you made and can't remember it at all. Why would I say "agreeeed" and then talk about Doom 3? WTF?

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #49 on: Saturday, May 14, 2016, 02:45:48 PM »
So what's the verdict guys?

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #50 on: Saturday, May 14, 2016, 03:24:08 PM »
I've been in it for about 18 hours, according to Steam. Playing campaign on Nightmare, so it's quite tough. I have died many, many times, so someone playing on medium or hard would likely have finished it hours before me.

Honestly, this is a far better game than I had any expectation it would be, even with some cautious optimism after hearing some of what they had to say over the last month and seeing a little more gameplay. They really did nail the proper look and feel to make this evocative of Doom in general, and seemed to use Quake 3 as a general base for the way it feels. It doesn't revolutionize FPS games, but it is absolutely a remarkable achievement that they made something that straddles multiple generations so well, feeling pretty true to the spirit of the early games while doing something that works for a modern market. Most people seem to really like it, whether they're old hands or newcomers.

I'm getting ready to start writing a review when I'm done finishing the campaign and looking at multiplayer/Snapmap stuff, but to briefly sum up the campaign so far:

* It feels great to play. Speed and movement are so good.
* It looks stellar, even if the monster designs aren't my favorite. There are vistas you just have to stop and look at. It's beautiful.
* It's not self-serious like Doom 3, nor is it a horror game. It's got a dark sense of humor and is more focused on fun.
* There is sort of a story progression, and it's honestly been decent so far. Brief and to the point, but well-acted.
* It takes the best parts of Doom 3's visual design and uses that to build levels that are mostly open arena-like spaces instead of corridor-crawls.
* Levels have great flow, move fast, and almost feel like MP maps. Great playgrounds to go nuts in.
* There are tons of secrets! These levels really remind you of old-school Doom in the best possible sense, with lots of little things to find and a nice summary screen at the end to tell you how many of them you got (and an ongoing tally in your menu, so you can be as thorough as you want to be).
* Melee kills are an essential part of the gameplay, but they're very fast, and can be made even faster through upgrades. I was skeptical, thinking they would be old hat in about 5 minutes, but especially on harder difficulties, the tactical considerations of using them to gain health makes them interesting, while their brevity keeps them from being obnoxious.
* There are a lot of upgrade systems, but they're all pretty simple and make for nice little rewards as you go.
* The weapons all generally feel fantastic, and the mods (essentially a choose-your-own-alt-fire) are enjoyable and have tactical value.
* Music is very evocative of Quake 3's soundtrack by Sonic Mayhem, just ... bigger. Some nice atmospheric stuff in spots, but mostly electronic metal stuff.
* Doomguy has a real strange backstory in this one, but I sort of appreciate where they're going with it so far.
* Doomguy is really funny for someone who never talks. They make him quite expressive, mostly seeming pretty grumpy about the fact that the UAC has managed to fuck up and cause a demonic invasion.

It's a really big surprise that this is as good as it is. I'm having a great time, and I can't imagine many fans of id franchises feeling otherwise.

Also, play it on harder difficulties. The game very much benefits from a relentless pace, and if you're too safe, it'll lose much of what makes it satisfying. Most people who have played shooters with any regularity will be fine on Ultra-violence. Those who consider themselves badasses, or who just like to suffer a little, will enjoy Nightmare.

Ultra-nightmare is for crazy people, but let me tell you, I can't wait to see someone actually beat that for the first time. Nightmare mode difficulty plus respawning enemies plus permadeath. According to id, nobody on the development team has managed to beat it yet.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #51 on: Saturday, May 14, 2016, 05:10:02 PM »
@Que

Thanks for your thoughts on the SP. Sounds like it's pretty kick-ass. More so than anything, I've been interested in how the SP might turn out. Seems like the response from 1st impressions of reviewers + Steam users have been pretty good for it, overall.

While I dug the Open Beta MP (in Beta) with its mix of Quake 3 Arena+Team Arena style action/gameplay, COD level progression system, and Doom setting - I was not in love with it. Liked it, but didn't love it. It felt like it needed more content - you know, like most modern-day MP FPS's; i.e. Overwatch's Open Beta & Titanfall. Hopefully, the full product and/or Season Pass can flesh the MP out.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #52 on: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 02:16:39 AM »
Great post Que. Enjoyed reading it.

Thoughts on multi?

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #53 on: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 05:11:23 AM »
Thanks for all the info.  My only concern from what I read is the business of melee kills.  I'm not a fan of being forced into melee in a shooter.  In Fallout 4 (which I'm still playing) even when one of those supersonic ghouls gets in my face from across the landscape, I still shoot him.  (I tend to forget there's a whacking button at all.) 

I'm going to read all I can on the game, and I have little doubt I'll end up getting it.  I haven't missed a Doom yet.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #54 on: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 07:53:35 AM »
It was the biggest thing I was worried about too, Cobra, but it really works. You kind of snap to enemies when they're in a staggered state, which really works tactically given the speed of the combat, and the melee finishers are very brief. Most of them take maybe a single second, and if you're playing on a difficulty level that's actually challenging you, the health boost you get is welcome. It adds a nice tactical consideration to the moment-to-moment gameplay. Where I am in the game now, they're almost not even noticeable, as I have an upgrade which more or less doubles their speed, and another upgrade that makes me faster for 5~ seconds after doing one. When I'm going full tilt, the finishers are almost too fast to even see, and the focus is still very squarely on the gunplay. I understand the fears about them, but they honestly turned out to be a plus in my book rather than a negative. It gets heated enough that the melee animations become a welcome brief respite, and one you can't just do them willy-nilly without putting yourself at risk a lot of the time.

You CAN turn off the flashing indicator that lets you know when an enemy is staggered, and sometimes enemies will drop health and such even if you just shoot them. You can try to tailor the game to make as little use of the finishers as possible if you want to, by using upgrades that focus on other stuff, or you could even just play on a lower difficulty and completely ignore the melee button.

EDIT -

Tried out some multiplayer this morning. It's ... underwhelming. It's not BAD, it's just nothing at all like you would want out of a Doom multiplayer mode, which you would expect to emulate Quake on some level. The level designs are good, but the movement somehow seems too slow (no bunnyhopping), and it's overly reliant on armor pickups. If you can shoot a guy with 5 rockets and he isn't dead, something is wrong. Damage numbers are on by default, and max rocket damage is 55, which is anemic. I haven't unlocked all the guns yet, some of which appear to be exclusive to the multiplayer, and the few I do have feel kind of not great. Gauss for sniping is solid enough, rockets are at least okay, and super shotgun does the job okay, but having to pick a loadout of 2 weapons and not being able to change it up at all is a huge letdown.

I've only played a tiny bit as I don't have much interest in it, but so far, it's ... okay. I hate the level-up model of multiplayer, as I hate anything that hamstrings better players and elevates shitty ones. I couldn't even win a match for the first hour because nothing was unlocked, and siphon grenades almost appear to be essential to survive more than 10 seconds.

Tonally it's also all wrong. The taunts are fucking horrible, and while the armor customization stuff is neat, most of the armor looks kind of stupid, and you don't even see your custom weapon colors on your hud weapon, and everybody just has red or blue armor regardless since everything is team-based, so you don't really see people's custom stuff until the summary screen, when they're teabagging you or doing a stupid dance.

And yes, it's all team-based. There is no deathmatch. TDM, but no DM, which is mind-blowingly stupid and I hope they'll patch something in. I believe DM is an option in Snapmap, but that's entirely separated from the multiplayer proper, which is another weird thing: you literally have to load campaign, MP, and Snapmap as separate executables which require you to restart the game. Whoever thought that was acceptable is also nuts.

So yeah, MP isn't un-fun to spend time in. I more or less had a good time in the end, but it suffers from being the kind of MP that basically moved me out of the MP space to begin with—I have less than zero interest in the popular military-themed online shooters of today, and this is hitting all of those bases rather than appealing to people like me.

DOOM's MP also doesn't jive with the base game. The movement is the same, but the gameplay doesn't make use of it. All the moving and jumping and grappling doesn't translate to you living longer like it does in the single-player; instead it's almost more of a liability, as humans will effortlessly track your momentum when you jump, making it better to stay on the ground where you have more control. This is the antithesis of Quake-style MP dynamics. And granted, this is Doom and not Quake, but Quake is really the nearest analog to what they should have been striving for.

Anyway, it's not what you think of when you think of Doom or id, and due to the weird tonal issues, it can feel like everyone you're playing with is a 12 year-old boy, which makes it irritating. I highly doubt I'll be spending much time with it in the long term, and I'm very sad to see that this is what their season pass has focused on. I hope they'll realize that the vast majority of people will be playing this for the campaign, and hopefully offer us some expansion-style content for that in the future.

Multiplayer was farmed out to another company, which may explain some of the tonal problems, but it's odd that while Bethesda killed the original Doom 4 because it looked like "Call of Doom", they didn't do that in the MP space, where that problem obviously has lived on.
« Last Edit: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 09:42:52 AM by Quemaqua »

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Offline MysterD

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« Last Edit: Monday, May 16, 2016, 04:52:07 PM by MysterD »

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #56 on: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 11:28:40 AM »
It's worth noting that the game runs like garbage on my R9 390 compared to how it runs on nvidia hardware. On a 980 you could max everything on my rig and maintain, on my R9 390 you just can't. I actually didn't realize this was the case at first as I set everything to ultra and somehow it got switched back. I was impressed with the game's graphics and played through most of it without realizing it had reset everything to medium. I messed with it and swapped a couple things a bit higher, but generally medium is the best I can do to maintain 60 fps. This is very disappointing.

That said, the game doesn't look substantially different even at lower settings. Given how fast and crazy it is, and how good the little details still manage to look for the most part when you're just taking a minute to enjoy the view, it ended up being pretty inconsequential. So I'm annoyed, because I put enough money into this rig that this game should run beautifully at higher settings and yet it doesn't, but I'm also willing to just shrug it off given the fact that the game is still beautiful and I really don't feel shortchanged running at lesser settings.

I do hope somebody makes some improvements here, however, as the discrepancy is way bigger than it should be.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline W7RE

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #57 on: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 11:40:44 AM »
I've been in it for about 18 hours, according to Steam. Playing campaign on Nightmare, so it's quite tough. I have died many, many times, so someone playing on medium or hard would likely have finished it hours before me.

Honestly, this is a far better game than I had any expectation it would be, even with some cautious optimism after hearing some of what they had to say over the last month and seeing a little more gameplay. They really did nail the proper look and feel to make this evocative of Doom in general, and seemed to use Quake 3 as a general base for the way it feels. It doesn't revolutionize FPS games, but it is absolutely a remarkable achievement that they made something that straddles multiple generations so well, feeling pretty true to the spirit of the early games while doing something that works for a modern market. Most people seem to really like it, whether they're old hands or newcomers.

I'm getting ready to start writing a review when I'm done finishing the campaign and looking at multiplayer/Snapmap stuff, but to briefly sum up the campaign so far:

* It feels great to play. Speed and movement are so good.
* It looks stellar, even if the monster designs aren't my favorite. There are vistas you just have to stop and look at. It's beautiful.
* It's not self-serious like Doom 3, nor is it a horror game. It's got a dark sense of humor and is more focused on fun.
* There is sort of a story progression, and it's honestly been decent so far. Brief and to the point, but well-acted.
* It takes the best parts of Doom 3's visual design and uses that to build levels that are mostly open arena-like spaces instead of corridor-crawls.
* Levels have great flow, move fast, and almost feel like MP maps. Great playgrounds to go nuts in.
* There are tons of secrets! These levels really remind you of old-school Doom in the best possible sense, with lots of little things to find and a nice summary screen at the end to tell you how many of them you got (and an ongoing tally in your menu, so you can be as thorough as you want to be).
* Melee kills are an essential part of the gameplay, but they're very fast, and can be made even faster through upgrades. I was skeptical, thinking they would be old hat in about 5 minutes, but especially on harder difficulties, the tactical considerations of using them to gain health makes them interesting, while their brevity keeps them from being obnoxious.
* There are a lot of upgrade systems, but they're all pretty simple and make for nice little rewards as you go.
* The weapons all generally feel fantastic, and the mods (essentially a choose-your-own-alt-fire) are enjoyable and have tactical value.
* Music is very evocative of Quake 3's soundtrack by Sonic Mayhem, just ... bigger. Some nice atmospheric stuff in spots, but mostly electronic metal stuff.
* Doomguy has a real strange backstory in this one, but I sort of appreciate where they're going with it so far.
* Doomguy is really funny for someone who never talks. They make him quite expressive, mostly seeming pretty grumpy about the fact that the UAC has managed to fuck up and cause a demonic invasion.

It's a really big surprise that this is as good as it is. I'm having a great time, and I can't imagine many fans of id franchises feeling otherwise.

Also, play it on harder difficulties. The game very much benefits from a relentless pace, and if you're too safe, it'll lose much of what makes it satisfying. Most people who have played shooters with any regularity will be fine on Ultra-violence. Those who consider themselves badasses, or who just like to suffer a little, will enjoy Nightmare.

Ultra-nightmare is for crazy people, but let me tell you, I can't wait to see someone actually beat that for the first time. Nightmare mode difficulty plus respawning enemies plus permadeath. According to id, nobody on the development team has managed to beat it yet.

I wanted to do a big writeup here about how much I'm loving the game, but was having trouble articulating it. You pretty much covered what I wanted to say.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #58 on: Monday, May 16, 2016, 03:59:55 AM »
It's worth noting that the game runs like garbage on my R9 390 compared to how it runs on nvidia hardware. On a 980 you could max everything on my rig and maintain, on my R9 390 you just can't. I actually didn't realize this was the case at first as I set everything to ultra and somehow it got switched back. I was impressed with the game's graphics and played through most of it without realizing it had reset everything to medium. I messed with it and swapped a couple things a bit higher, but generally medium is the best I can do to maintain 60 fps. This is very disappointing.

That said, the game doesn't look substantially different even at lower settings. Given how fast and crazy it is, and how good the little details still manage to look for the most part when you're just taking a minute to enjoy the view, it ended up being pretty inconsequential. So I'm annoyed, because I put enough money into this rig that this game should run beautifully at higher settings and yet it doesn't, but I'm also willing to just shrug it off given the fact that the game is still beautiful and I really don't feel shortchanged running at lesser settings.

I do hope somebody makes some improvements here, however, as the discrepancy is way bigger than it should be.

Really? This is performance on your 8GB VRAM R9 390? With 8GB, this baffles me.

Wait - does the game support NVidia GameWorks?
A lot of times when a game supports GameWorks (and often NVidia tosses money a dev + pub's way), A LOT less effort goes into optimizing AMD card versions of the game. AMD seems to mostly be getting MUCH better performance on DX12, though - i.e. see Quantum Break PC. Though, when the NVidia 1070's + 1080's come out, I'm very curious how those will run DX12 games.

Also - how are you running Doom 2016 here? With what API?
So, are you running OpenGL? DirectX? Mantle API?
Not sure entirely what API it uses, b/c Id games sometimes have more graphics API options than...well, everybody else putting games on Windows (using mostly DirectX).




Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #59 on: Tuesday, May 17, 2016, 08:44:52 PM »
So AMD updated their drivers yesterday, apparently. I downloaded them and they made all the difference. They claimed a 35% increase, and while I'm not going to sit here and pretend I can do math, I did do some benchmarks of sorts.

In one of the bigger Hell levels where lots of lighting and particle effects are going on constantly, when I threw everything on ultra pre-update, my FPS was in the low 40s. Today, doing the same, the game never dropped below 55, even during combat. I even threw on the two "nightmare" settings just for fun with no noticeable performance degradation.

So it's not perfect, but if I can't detect any slowdown without having to refer to an FPS counter, it's good enough for me. And the game does look better. It's not a massive difference, as the lower settings still look bloody great, but there are some fine details preserved in the upper echelon. I doubt I would ever have noticed for the most part my first time through regardless, given that playing this game on Nightmare demands one's utmost attention just about every second.

Anyway, just FYI for anybody with an AMD card that's worried. I've actually heard that there are a bunch of Nvidia-related crashes, or at least that seems to be what some of the community are guessing. I don't know. I've only experienced I think 3 now in 42 hours of play.

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Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #60 on: Monday, May 23, 2016, 01:23:13 AM »
We've covered a lot of this already, but here's my complete review, which hopefully gives a more complete and useful look at things. No spoilers.

http://www.popoptiq.com/doom-gleeful-havoc/

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #61 on: Monday, May 23, 2016, 05:56:55 AM »
Thanks for the detailed review.  I found a digital code on Amazon for my console (which is unusual), and I've had a $50 Amazon gift card since Christmas, so I jumped on it a few days ago.  The first good surprise was that unflinchingly locked 60 fps you mentioned.  Quite the departure from the often chuggy Fallout 4 display.  I haven't gotten very far yet.  I had a sore throat and felt feverish for several days, and playing the visceral Doom only made me feel worse.  I'm healthier now, and will be getting back to it.  I'm so glad that the campaign came out so well.  Too bad the whole package wasn't better rounded, but from my selfish perspective, I'm glad they did their best work on the single-player content.

Playing on the default difficulty, I've only died so far by doing something stupid (walked off a cliff, climbed into the path of a moving crate).  I've been on the edge of death a few times, but managed to squeeze some health out of finishers or containers nearby to survive.  But as I said, haven't gotten very far.  I trust it will get harder.

One thing I noticed about the left joystick implementation is that it does not have a smooth progression of speed across the stick's range of movement.  You crawl, crawl, move a bit faster, then suddenly break into a sprint near the circular edge.  There is no separate sprint button.  I'm not sure why they did that, except perhaps because of a WASD mindset.  Keys have no progressive movement.  It's stand still or walk, and an extra key is needed for running, or can be set to always run using the directional keys alone.  The thing is that progressive stick movement can partially offset the loss of look/aim precision of the right stick (compared to a mouse).  Shots can be lined up by coordinating the movement of both sticks (roughly aim + smoothly walk).  This becomes second nature.  Fallout 4 does it very well (and it does have a separate sprint button).  Doom does not.  I got used to it fairly quickly, but it could have been better.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #62 on: Monday, May 23, 2016, 02:39:33 PM »
I can't speak to it in detail as I don't play the game regularly with a gamepad, but this is not a game where you want to slow down. On Nightmare, even stopping for a half second is more or less a guarantee that you will be reduced to sludge, as you can frequently be one or two-shotted even with full health and some armor, depending on the enemy. Ultra-violence is more lenient, but not by a lot, mostly just being more generous about what you get from pickups (I believe you get +5 for the small ones, where on Nightmare you get +1). So they do include a walk, I guess for just enjoying the scenery during slow moments, but it would be absolutely useless on Ultra-violence or Nightmare to ever be moving at anything but full-tilt, I think. Or that's the impression I've gotten from my time with both. I haven't played the game on HMP so I don't know how it compares.

I've actually been playing Ultra-Nightmare a little here and there. Man, it is so rough. I've gotten about halfway through the second map, and that's all I can manage. It's actually more fun than frustrating, though, as you can beat the entire game in probably under 5 hours once you've explored it thoroughly in a more leisurely game. So it's a nice thing for a weekend. Just sit down and hey, let's see how far I can get! And you can see dropped helmets on the ground that let you know how far others have gotten and such. It's kind of a fun thing, though it'll be way, way too hard for most people (the only achievement attached is for just beating the first map, which is not easy in and of itself).

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline W7RE

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #63 on: Monday, May 23, 2016, 03:39:59 PM »
I see what you're saying about the left stick movement, and I've noticed it myself. It hasn't felt like an issue for me though. Also, moving at max speed all the time seems to keep you alive longer., so I don't often find myself wanting to go slow.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #64 on: Monday, May 23, 2016, 08:46:08 PM »
Yeah, to be sure, I'm always at full tilt when battling the demons.  It's after I've cleared them out, and am just scrounging around for pickups and secrets that I notice the deficiency.  Basically, it's a waste of a lot of the available range of stick travel.

Played through a couple of more levels today, and had my ass handed to me several times by those elite guardians.  They can take a lot of shotgun blasts to the face, and still keep coming.  One ground stomp takes out like half my health.  Also, what's up with those shield guys?  Unless I happen to have enough fuel for the chainsaw, they are a bitch to put down.

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #65 on: Monday, May 23, 2016, 09:13:52 PM »
Gotta get creative. Jumping over or around them to get a shot behind the shield works (much easier with double-jump), putting explosives behind them works in a pinch, and eventually there's a mod for one of the weapons that makes them a cinch so long as you've got the ammo available (won't discuss what gun or which mod unless desired).

Also, who do you mean by elite guardian? The "elite guards" in the map/end screen are actually for the suit pickups (which you get from the dead guards you occasionally find).

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline W7RE

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #66 on: Monday, May 23, 2016, 09:29:25 PM »
I use a grenade or the explosive shotgun mod for the shield guys, and try to plant it behind them. The rocket launcher works fine with no mods, and the plasma rifle stun shot probably works, but I haven't tried it on them specifically. They mostly suck early on when you have a smaller arsenal.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #67 on: Tuesday, May 24, 2016, 05:22:08 AM »
Gotta get creative. Jumping over or around them to get a shot behind the shield works (much easier with double-jump), putting explosives behind them works in a pinch, and eventually there's a mod for one of the weapons that makes them a cinch so long as you've got the ammo available (won't discuss what gun or which mod unless desired).

Also, who do you mean by elite guardian? The "elite guards" in the map/end screen are actually for the suit pickups (which you get from the dead guards you occasionally find).

Then I misunderstood what I read in the level stats.  These big guys with whitish heads usually appear at the end of clearing a nest, and they are a bitch to stop.  They take a lot of lead to that bright dome, and hardly flinch.  They come at me relentlessly, and do this ground pound which depletes a lot of health.  If they grab me, it's curtains.  My success rate with them so far is about 50/50.  I assumed they were the elite guards.  I need to find a better way to deal with them, whatever they are.  (I haven't read any guides or walkthroughs, and that's the way I want to keep it my first time through.)

No double-jump yet.  No rocket launcher yet.  The explosive shotgun mod seems more useful for crowd control so far.  Maybe I just need to upgrade it more.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #68 on: Tuesday, May 24, 2016, 09:01:04 AM »
The game doesn't explicitly mention it but you have to be quite agile for most of the enemies; run and gun!! Jumping around is helpful and
(click to show/hide)

If you can land headshots on the elites, they tend to go down a tad quicker.

The shield guys, as W7RE mentioned, you have to get around them or drop explosives behind them. I tend to use grenades or the shotgun's secondary explosive shot. It is possible to wear down the shield but that usually a waste of ammo. The Plasma or Gauss rifle will take out that shield quicker than conventional guns but it's easier to just move or jump around them and take the shots. Also the Plasma gun's secondary Heat Blast can do some damage even with their shields.

Offline W7RE

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #69 on: Tuesday, May 24, 2016, 10:20:52 AM »
Sounds like you're talking about the Hell Knights.


Hell Knights in Doom 1 and 2:



And Hell Knights in Doom 3 and Doom 2016:



EDIT: Switched out the pics, since the old one had Barons of Hell instead of Hell Knights.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, May 24, 2016, 03:14:22 PM by W7RE »

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #70 on: Tuesday, May 24, 2016, 10:32:45 AM »


Yeah.  That bastard. -------------------------------------------^   Thank you.

I do run and gun a lot.  It became clear early on that I can't treat this game like a shooting gallery.  (I used to run all over the place in Doom I and II as well.)  But these hunks of meat and bone just bum-rush me while taking blast after blast to the puss without dying, till eventually my back is against something, and then all I see is red before being asked where to reload from.  Double-jump will be quite welcome when I find it.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #71 on: Tuesday, May 24, 2016, 02:46:04 PM »
Those first two look more like the Barons of Hell:

As they appear in Doom (2016):

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #72 on: Tuesday, May 24, 2016, 08:34:41 PM »
Yeah, just keep away from them. Their movement is quite predictable, so even though the ground pound hurts, you should be mobile enough to keep away from it pretty easily. Eventually they became the easiest enemies in the game for me, even more so than the soldier dudes with that charge cannon of theirs. Because that crap is harder to avoid and can murder you on Nightmare in a single hit a lot of times. Hell knights can also be stunned by a big enough hit. They falter for a half second, and can have their jumps and attacks interrupted.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

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Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #74 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2016, 06:21:02 AM »
Found plasma gun and rocket launcher since.  Was able to add lock-on mode and fast lock-on to the RL quickly.  Problem solved.    Actually, it seems the shottie is the worst gun for this guy (other than the default pea shooter).  Good for a devastating single blast to lower minions, but not enough sustained DPS for the bullet sponges.  Even the heavy assault rifle does better, though that includes some good upgrades.  The shield guys need more work.  I'm getting there.

The RL also makes quick work of that horror which spawns other minions until you kill it.  I don't feel so overwhelmed anymore, and I'm starting to have some fun with this.  I'm not playing very long sessions, though.  An hour or so a day before I retreat to less frenzied fare.

As I get more weapons, I'm getting to hate the weapon-selection process.  Having to bring up a wheel to switch out one of a pair of fast-swapping weapons is far from ideal in a breakneck Doom game.   The D-pad sits half-idle, at least so far.  They could have mapped 4 weapons to the 4 D-pad directions, and moved other functions elsewhere.  I can't even think what the D-pad does during the action right now.  I know up and down are used for switching objective markers on the map, but that doesn't tie up the pad during the action.

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #75 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2016, 09:13:15 AM »
Super shotgun is almost exclusively what I used for hell knights.

And yeah, I mean this is a Doom game. Gamepad is not the ideal way to do it. Isn't there a hot-swap button to at least switch between two frequently used weapons? I really didn't play enough with a gamepad to remember how it worked at all, only that it was decent enough to play but not something I would do of my own volition. Obviously on a console you don't have a choice, and I think they were of the opinion that the weapon wheel was a positive rather than a negative. I suppose that might be preference, but it would definitely seem like a waste if they didn't use the d-pad for anything substantial.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #76 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2016, 12:44:16 PM »
I found the super shotgun too.  Haven't used it yet.

Yeah, there's a swap button for 2 weapons.  The problem is the the selection for all other weapons involves the wheel, which takes you out of the action (and doesn't even stop time altogether--it just slows).  This is a poor and awkward solution.  The only thing KB+mouse should be superior for is look/ aim.  The mouse provides a perfect analogue of human motion, which cannot be replicated by a thumbstick.  Other than that, a modern controller offers plenty enough inputs to accommodate shooters like Doom.  For example, you could assign 4 weapons to the D-pad, and employing a shoulder button as a shift key can provide slots for 4 more weapons on the D-pad (total of 8 ).  Or you could assign your favorite 4 yourself by selecting from the wheel, then pressing the D-pad direction where you want your selection to go.  They simply didn't design this well enough.  It's not the input device's fault.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #77 on: Thursday, May 26, 2016, 03:46:08 PM »
**** ENTIRE DOOM SERIES SPOILERS BELOW from Doom 1 to Doom 2016 ****
Kotaku -> Theory that Doom 2016 is not just a reboot, but also an actual sequel to the Doom series.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #78 on: Friday, May 27, 2016, 12:26:13 AM »
I thought it was a sequel! I didn't know it was assumed to be a reboot!

Even the start of the game feels like a continuation of past events.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom 4 announced
« Reply #79 on: Friday, May 27, 2016, 03:09:58 AM »
Nobody cares about Doom's story, but I'll spoiler tag this anyway.

(click to show/hide)

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野