Topic: Starcraft 2 is a trilogy

[Xessive]

LAN parties are great. In my case my brother and I live in the same apartment, our machines are on the same network, and we play often. LAN is a selling point for me.

There's one feature the PSP has that really appeals to me (though it's not always implemented properly): game sharing. It's the PSP equivalent of a "LAN spawn." In theory, it's supposed to give a nearby PSP a "spawn" of the original game for some on-the-fly multiplayer; great for when you only have one UMD of a game and it's a good way to demonstrate a game. In reality it doesn't really do that, at least not for the games I've tried. Anyway, my point is the LAN spawn idea is great and it sucks that not enough developers are using it.

I've probably mentioned this in one of our many LAN discussions: I love the way Freespace worked. For every copy of the game 4 players were allowed to play on a LAN. Basically as long as one of them had a disc in the drive they could all play locally. This is one of the principles I wish was still around. It's analogous to split-screen play but with separate computers.

This is off on a tangent but since we're discussing local gameplay: what the heck is up with the lack of traditional two-player games on the PS3?! Everything is either online-only or something we don't play (FPS, etc.)! There's a severe lack of old-fashioned two-player (or more) ass-kicking games. As of now the only game we do play together is Street Fight IV and that's head to head. We're basically counting on Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 and anything else that comes in that genre.

[MysterD]

Starcraft 2 delayed until at least 2010.

[scottws]

That's a shocker.

[idolminds]

Not sure how I feel about this.

Acknowledging the considerable effect mods like Defense of the Ancients have had on the Blizzard community, Blizzard design head Rob Pardo has revealed that mod-makers will be able to sell the custom maps they create for the upcoming StarCraft II through an official marketplace.

At launch, the marketplace will immediately allow free distribution of mods, but commerce functionality will be added in later. Still, Pardo said, it is under active development at Blizzard.

"Imagine what could happen if you could hire a small dev team and use StarCraft II almost as an engine," he said. "This is an opportunity for [modders] to share in the rewards of our success."

After all, Pardo said, Defense of the Ancients has a measurable impact on the game industry as a whole -- "The tower defense [genre] came out of the WarCraft III mod community, and now you see tower defense [games] on the PlayStation Store, and in [PopCap's] Plants vs. Zombies."

He pointed to mods for Valve-developed games, such as Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat, as further examples of the possibility of the mod space -- but was sure to add, "We want to make sure the best amateur game designers out there are making content for StarCraft II, and not for Kongregate or Steam or anything like that."

First, I'm of the hippy old-school "modding for the love of modding" line of thought, so the idea of people doing this all for profit just seems strange.

But I wonder how this is going to work. No one is going to just buy a map with no idea of its quality. Even if it changes the game significantly like DotA or Tower Defense, how are people going to know they like it? The obvious answer is to release beta versions of the map for people to play but once you offer the pay version whats to stop people from simply continuing to play the last free version? Alternatively, whats to stop someone from ripping off the design of a pay map and giving it away for free? Would DotA or Tower Defense be nearly as popular if they had charged for the maps? I doubt it.

CS and DoD were given as examples, but in those cases they remained free as mods to anyone that owned Half-Life. Yes you could buy stand-alone versions but as long as you had HL you could download the latest and greatest CS or DoD for free. So in that way they are quite different from what Blizzard is proposing.

[Quemaqua]

I get less interested in this game per announcement.

[MysterD]

Blizzard got a new FAQ up that discusses the new Battle.Net changes that'll be coming w/ the addition of The Marketplace and all.

[MysterD]

Kotaku talks to Rob Pardo about No LAN for SC2.

Kotaku sat down with Blizzard's executive vice president of game design Rob Pardo this weekend to talk Battle.net, but we couldn't resist touching on the subject of the lack of LAN in StarCraft II.

Pardo was in good spirits when we spoke to him yesterday afternoon when I touched on the controversial subject, which has spawned a wave of forum rage and countless petitions calling for the reinstatement of feature. "You're the first person who asked me about that this weekend," he joked. When I asked if the company was still receiving flack over the decision, his good humor continued. "Only from you guys. Only from the press. Everyone else has accepted it."

Once I finished giggling, Rob got down to brass tacks.

"Everyone is going to give us flack until it's out. None of us is going to know how big a deal it is until it's out. We believe that it's really not that big of a deal - that most people are not really going to notice that it's missing. There's a lot of people out there I think that are just afraid that they're suddenly not going to be able to connect to the internet tonight and they won't be able to play. I actually think that case is extremely rare, and I think we're going to be okay."

And what of the rare cases where no direct-connection option wouldn't be okay?

"There's a few legitimate cases that we're going to try and address over time. Location-based tournaments, or let's say I'm in a dorm with a firewall or something like that, hopefully there's a way to determine that and maybe start a peer-to-peer game."

So it really doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but as Pardo said, we won't really know until the game comes out.

[iPPi]

Closed Beta starting this month

Can't wait, I should have an invite or two for it thanks to Blizzcon 2008.

[scottws]

I was starting to think it would be another five years before we saw these games.

[iPPi]

The closed beta has started.  I'm expecting my invitation to it in the near future.

Edit: Got my invitation.  Will set it up tomorrow on my laptop because my computer is dying and can't run games anymore.

[idolminds]

Ars looks at SC2 and the new Battle.net

Something I found interesting:

It looks as if no maps were included in the download with the beta client, and each map is downloaded separately before it's played. You can arrange the maps by official Blizzard releases, popular maps, your own published content, or simply maps you've recently played. It only takes five to ten seconds to download a map, and it looks as if the selection will be constantly moving once the editor is released.

During match-making you can vote maps up or down, making sure that you won't have to play on maps you don't like. You can search for maps by name, see the name of the author, and get a quick description.

This is exciting. Anyone will be able to create maps, upload them directly to Battle.net, and then play on them. Maps are easy to get, easy to share, and it's easy to see how some map-makers are going to become famous in the community as their maps become popular with players. The way maps are set up is genius: you'll always have new content, and the community will constantly be finding good maps to try. This is going to take off like a rocket when the final game is released.

Looks like its taking a "LittleBigPlanet" approach to custom maps.

[iPPi]

I can't wait to try it.  Beta is downloading right now... at 50%.

[Ghandi]

Any word on when the open beta will start?

[iPPi]

So I put about an hour into the beta doing two 2v2 matches.  I've played the Terran and Protoss races now, and as usual, I sucked as Terran (I was always bad with them because I don't like their tech tree) and I did decently as Protoss. 

It's still very much classic Starcraft kind of gameplay.  That is -- expendable units and fast gameplay/rebuilding.  So I guess if you loved Starcraft in the past than this is just a revamped version.  The tech trees are similar but more complicated this time around.  Lots of new units that I wasn't really able to look at so I'm still unfamiliar with how to tech up and use each unit's abilities and stuff though.

Also, the game runs pretty well.  I'm playing it on my laptop which has a Geforce 7400 Go, so I had to turn down a lot of the graphical settings but it still looks reasonable (not great though).

The maps have limited resources (so no big game hunters yet like in the SC) so you're forced to expand and play a little more strategically, but rebuilding is still very fast.  In my second game as protoss, my main base almost got wiped out but I was able to amass multiple large armies of Zealots and Sentries and mounted a strong offensive against the enemy.  My ally decided to tech with these heavy aircraft and was able to save me from the attack on my base.

All in all, it's shaping up to be a good game.  It is just somewhat surprising how long it has taken them though since this game has been in development for a long time and the results don't seem to justify the extended length of time it has taken.  At least, from the beta, it doesn't seem like it yet.

[iPPi]

I have no idea if this is legitimate or not, but apparently the beta has been cracked and is available for download and play against AI opponents.  Obviously AI opponents suck, so it's not as fun as playing on battle.net and being a part of the real beta.

Download at your own risk: http://www.gossipgamers.com/starcraft-2-beta-cracked-available-for-download/

[gpw11]

Well, you sold that just in time eh?

[Pugnate]

haha

[iPPi]

Haha so true.

Actually, I do wonder if the price I got was for the polar bear mount more so than the Starcraft 2 beta.  But I'll never know.

[idolminds]

Pricing announced along with collectors edition.

$60 regular, $100 collectors

Collectors edition contains:

* The Art of StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, a 176-page book featuring artwork from the game
* An exclusive 2GB USB flash drive replica of Jim Raynor's dog tag, which comes preloaded with the original StarCraft and the StarCraft: Brood War expansion set
* A behind-the-scenes DVD containing over an hour of developer interviews, cinematics with director's commentary, and more
* The official StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty soundtrack CD, containing 14 epic tracks from the game along with exclusive bonus tracks
* StarCraft comic book issue #0, a prequel to the comic series
* A World of Warcraft mini Thor in-game pet that can be applied to all World of Warcraft characters on a single Battle.net account
* Exclusive Battle.net downloadable content, including special portraits for your Battle.net profile, decals to customize your units in-game, and a visually unique version of the terran Thor unit

[scottws]

This might actually be the first collectors edition of a game I buy.  I don't really care about the USB drive.  I'm more interested in the art book and the comic book.  I've been saying for years that StarCraft is a universe that lends itself to expanded universe books and movies.  A comic book could be pretty good.

[idolminds]

Yeah, the USB stick is neat but a bit useless in a collectors edition. If you're buying the SC2 CE its a safe bet you already own a copy of the original SC.

But hey, I bet you could sell the WoW pet on ebay for at least the cost difference between regular and collectors editions, if not more.

[MysterD]

So, yeah - when's the SC2: Battle Chest w/ ALL Three Campaigns inside it coming out? 

[idolminds]

Much, much later. Your grandkids will be able to buy it.

[MysterD]

Hmmm....

[iPPi]

Hmmm....

Starcraft is all about the multiplayer anyway.  Requiring an internet connection for it is pretty much a nonissue, even though it appears to be just speculation at this time.

I might get the CE for this if I get a new computer before it comes out.  It is likely that this game is getting a midnight release as well so I'm gonna have to preorder it... I don't feel like waiting until midnight to pick up a game.

[gpw11]

Starcraft is all about the multiplayer anyway.  Requiring an internet connection for it is pretty much a nonissue, even though it appears to be just speculation at this time.

I might get the CE for this if I get a new computer before it comes out.  It is likely that this game is getting a midnight release as well so I'm gonna have to preorder it... I don't feel like waiting until midnight to pick up a game.

Honestly, it'd be a bit of an issue for me...well, just as much as any other game requiring an internet connection (it's all situationally dependant).  I fucking hate RTS MP (Company of Heroes was fun though).  It's all build orders and who can rush faster.

[iPPi]

Ah... with Starcraft the only thing I'm interested in is really the MP.

[idolminds]

Sounds like a one-time activation, like during install. Which sadly is par for the course now.

[Ghandi]

Sounds like a one-time activation, like during install. Which sadly is par for the course now.

I don't really mind that at all. Plus Blizzard has a pretty good track record - you know they aren't going to fuck up like some of the others.

[Pugnate]

I am all for installation time activations, if it means forgoing the cd-check permanently. Yes I am a lazy dude, but there have been several times when I have wanted to play an installed game, and decided not to, because it would mean visiting the game box.

[MysterD]

Sounds like a one-time activation, like during install. Which sadly is par for the course now.

I think it's unnecessary for retail-disc versions of a game that have a SP portions. Disc check is fine. I will tolerate a one-time activation, though - since my DSL connection is decent enuff.

Hellgate: London got it right, if you ask me...
Disc check only for SP portion.
No disc needed for MP, only needing your online account required to play MP (on their servers).

[scottws]

My brother somehow got me into the beta.  I'm using some alternate e-mail address of his to log in.  I was never really very good at the original game in multiplayer, but I'm really bad at this one.  It seems so much faster and more demanding on the player even though they have put things in to make base management easier.

I played my brother a couple of times.  The first time he crushed me.  The second time I almost beat him by doing hit and run attacks until I let him destroy a large flight of mutalisks that were harassing his main base that crushed me in terms of resource loss.

In both matches, I found myself wanting to do a bunch of things but not be able to.  I wanted to get Overlord transporting and take a couple probes up to some minerals on a plateau but I am not even sure if I researched the necessary tech.  I wanted to look to see if I could build a more powerful ground attacking flyer as my brother was playing Terran and was almost entirely a land force.  But I found myself having to constantly flip between building probes and guiding them to the right resources and building my army and grouping them, then sending them on various harassment missions and moving them around.

We didn't even play on fastest!  We played on fast.  I don't know if I would be able to be any good at this game.

[iPPi]

The tech trees are overly complicated I've found.  You'll have to look it up on a Starcraft wiki to find out what you need to do.  You might have a general idea if you played the original lots, but the trees have changed enough that it is indeed quite demanding.

[scottws]

I am very bad at this game.

[idolminds]

The feature you've all been waiting for!

"We're pleased to be working with Facebook to integrate their platform with Battle.net to enhance the social-entertainment experience for our players," said Blizzard COO Paul Sams. "This new functionality will make it easier than ever to connect with friends on Battle.net and play StarCraft II and future Blizzard Entertainment games together."

...

This is great until the "new hotness" in social sites comes out and people don't care about Facebook anymore. Imagine if games integrated MySpace a few years ago and how that would appear today.

[Pugnate]

I see what you are saying, but facebook is so much better than myspace. At this point, I don't see it going anywhere, because it is nearly perfect and has reached a huge base. Yes there is a lot of crap that comes with it, but you can customize it quite a bit. You can basically keep away from all the bloat.

Sure something better might come along, but I don't see people migrating just like people aren't easily migrating from DVD to Blu-ray.

[iPPi]

My problem with facebook is with regards to the privacy changes they have been making recently.  Because of these recent changes I've pretty much removed all my information and it has just become a shell for me just
to stay in contact with friends, nothing more.

[Pugnate]

Yup, that's partially what I meant by customizing the crap off.

[MysterD]

Starcraft II will be getting the NVidia 3D Treatment in patch.

To close, we got a little superficial and delved into graphics. Those who've played the beta (or just watched the videos) know that it looks great, even on a mid-range machine, but will we be able to anti-alias the boxed game when it's released?

"No; but we will be releasing 3D in the first few months, for those Nvidia cards and screens that support it," Chris states, before we quickly pursue Nvidia's presence at the event, and ask about those players running ATI cards. We receive a stock but believable response: "we're optimising for all systems."

EDIT - July 16, 2010:
Rumor is it costed over $100 million for Blizz to make SC2.

[Pugnate]

So the release date is around the corner. Come on guys, where is the excitement?

If Scottws doesn't buy this on release date, I'd honestly be very disappointed. I think the release of this game could liven up our community.

My biggest question for now is whether to go for the CE or the standard.

I must say at $100, the CE is looking pretty terrible. It doesn't seem to have the extras worth the amount.