Topic: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry

[idolminds]

Welcome to the horrible future.

[MysterD]

Welcome to the horrible future.

I have no problem w/ buying digitally, given how much LESS this often costs. Most people have DVD, BR, or extra HDD's for back-up storage - so this ain't the issue. The kicker is - you need a fast Internet connection or this whole thing is just no good to you.

My problem comes w/ DLC-mania. This includes the poor pricing of DLC and often there's no "ALL DLC package" after they're all done w/ it. Steam at least gets most of this right - as usually they discount game + ALL DLC at once and there's an option usually to "Buy ALL DLC", if you already own the original box.

My other problem comes w/ DRM. Any sort of C&C4, Diablo 3, or UbiSoft-style persistent online requirement is just irritating for games that have what feels like games that could be played alone in a single-player mode. I don't mind the one-time requires online activation as much anymore, but still - a game been around the block and done w/ its huge amount of sales at high prices, PULL THE DRM. There's no use for it anymore. About Steam - once a game's activated on your PC, there's no real need for their client to be required to run in the background. Origin doesn't do this, now does it? NO.

I really don't know what to think about making user buy SP separate, MP separate, or the entire product. I have a few games like say MOH 2010, I never even looked at the MP. Dead Space 2's MP wasn't that hot...only b/c of the lack of maps. So, actually that's an interesting thought.

[MysterD]

RockPaperShotgun - All of you EA Origin users, you might want to be aware of this....

A number of readers have written in to express concern about this clause in the terms of service for Electronic Arts’ new digital distribution, Origin.

Here’s the key bit:
“If you have not used your Entitlements or Account for twenty four (24) months or more and your Account has associated Entitlements, your Entitlements will expire and your Account may be cancelled for non-use.” The “entitlements” it’s talking about are “paid and free downloadable content, unlockable content, digital and/or virtual assets, rights of use tied to unlock keys or codes, serial codes and/or online authentication of any kind, in-game achievements and virtual or fictional currency.”

We’ve asked Electronic Arts for clarification on this, but it suggests you might lose DLC, achievements, and even your account if you don’t log on for two years. Not exactly the kind of permanence we’ve come to expect from certain online services, is it? I can think of quite a few services I’ve not logged into for two years, and I’d still expect all my stuff to be there. Is anyone aware of similar clauses in other distribution systems or online game services?

[scottws]

Well I hate EA anyway, so it is not like I was about to use Origin anyway, but that really seals the deal right there.

[Xessive]

Bleak. The future is looking kinda iffy.

That's a dick-move from EA. Does that inactivity deadline include logging into the EA site or any of the Battlefield games (it's the same account)?

[MysterD]

RockPaperShotgun -> EA responds to the ordeal about Origin account deletion for inactivity.

We’ve had word back from EA regarding their peculiarly-worded terms of service for Origin.

Senior director of corporate communications John Reseburg explains: “The Origin terms of service are designed to protect against misuse of the Origin system. No Origin user who has paid entitlements and/or downloaded games will have their account cancelled or games expired due to extended non-use. The term regarding account cancellation for non-use is designed to guard against creation of non-active accounts for inappropriate reasons.”

So that’s good. As long as you weren’t intending to create non-active accounts for inappropriate reasons, anyway.

So, why the hell wasn't that included reasoning ALSO included in this section of the EULA? [shrug]

[idolminds]

Didn't want to make a thread for this because...well I wanted to update you on my adventures in downloading Terraria. Spoilered just so you dont have to read it if you dont want.

(click to show/hide)

So I tried again and it topped out at a little over 3MB again. I went and looked in the folder to see what file it was working on and I saw a 0kb file for dotNetFx40_Full_setup.exe so I figure it might be having problems with it. Google search, find the download from MS, its less than 1MB so I figure I'll just grab it and drop it in there manually so Steam can skip downloading that file. Nevermind that I do already have my .Net stuff already downloaded and installed.

That seems to help, it passes that. I'm now up to 10 out of the 18MB total! But its stuck again. I check, sure enough its another dotNet file. This time dotNetFx40_Full_x86_x64.exe. I sigh, figure I might as well go grab that manually as well. Even though, you know, I'm not on a 64bit OS so its of absolutely no use to me. Ok, heres the file so I'll....wait, 48MB? Thats a lot more than the 18 you're saying I'm going to download, Valve! What the fuck?

So in reality I have to download 66MB for an 18MB game. And the pirated copy I had fit in a 5MB rar file. So, yeah.

[scottws]

Yeah, there should be a mechanism to detect if you have various prerequisites already installed (and the math should be right too).  That said, it isn't too different from games on disc.  They would contain the .NET installers too.  I wonder too if a game was on Impulse that required .NET if it would have you download the installers.  I bet it would.

Do you have a cell phone? Have you considered tethering? I know that mobile internet isn't very good for online gaming, but you could use it for your downloads and it would solve a lot of your pain.

As far as the Origin EULA, I don't care what EA says they mean, I care what the EULA actually says and doesn't say.  If that's the case that they wont delete accounts with purchased games, I want to see that in the EULA.  Until then my 10 foot pole will be in use.

[Cobra951]

So the online installers are dumping everything on you across your paid bandwidth (which for many includes caps) before applying any logic to see if you need it?  That's wasteful, stupid, and it needs to be fixed.  It's not at all like having unneeded files on a boxed retail disc.  It's a very different process, and it needs to be designed accordingly.

[Quemaqua]

What Cobra said. That's just plain foolishness.

[MysterD]

When I purchased Fallout: New Vegas - Old World Blues DLC the other day from Steam, Steam at first was telling me I had 0 GB installed for FO: New Vegas.
Keep in mind, I already had FO: NV + first two DLC's [Lonesome Hearts + Dead Money] all installed on my HDD - so, WTF?
Though, a few moments later, the installed number suddenly changed itself to 7.xx GB installed and it began working to DL the approximate 600+ GB for OWB.

From what I was reading on Steam, if you get a problem where you already have something installed and need to DL only the DLC or new update, though Steam continues to re-force you to DL everything...
Close Steam out completely, then restart Steam - it should fix the calculation for you automatically.

[Xessive]

That happened with me for New Vegas. I restarted Steam and it still showed that it needed to download a full 8GB but the download rate was like 3000 KB/s, which means that Steam was just reading and registering the folder contents but somehow convinced itself they were being re-downloaded.

[idolminds]

I guess this sorta fits in this thread about "gaming trends".

Tim Willits of id Software thinks always-on internet requirements are A-OK!

[Xessive]

"Diablo 3 will make everyone else accept the fact you have to be connected," he [Tim Willits] said. "If you have a juggernaut, you can make change. I'm all for that. If we could force people to always be connected when you play the game, and then have that be acceptable, awesome."

"If we could force people to ______________, and then have that be acceptable, awesome."

Any sentence that starts with forcing people to do something and ends with "and then have that be acceptable" is generally a red flag for unacceptable behaviour.

[Cobra951]

If he's right, my current disdain for PC gaming will become permanent.  If consoles go that way too, or disappear in favor of telephones, I think my backlog will keep me entertained for the rest of my lucid life.

[MysterD]

I guess this sorta fits in this thread about "gaming trends".

Tim Willits of id Software thinks always-on internet requirements are A-OK!

"Always online DRM" is NOT acceptable for SINGLE PLAYER PORTIONS of games - b/c they are meant to be played ALONE.
End of story.

[MysterD]

Here's another thing that is making me "shake my head."

[Quemaqua]

If he's right, my current disdain for PC gaming will become permanent.  If consoles go that way too, or disappear in favor of telephones, I think my backlog will keep me entertained for the rest of my lucid life.

I'm with you.

[Xessive]

I'm beginning to think that these restrictive DRM measures aren't meant to prevent piracy, rather they seem more like an excuse to monitor the players.

[PyroMenace]

A constant connection should not be forced on players and Im not entirely sure why it's being pushed so hard. Offline single player is easy and user friendly. I think though in the case of Diablo 3, they want to push it so everyone can use the real money auction house for the obvious financial benefits. I'm still not sure what to think of the auction house stuff, I'd have to wait and see how that goes. As for having a constant connection, I doesn't bother me because ive always been online and it's weird, when I do lose Internet for a small time when there's ISP maintenance or something, I don't even bother playing any games. Maybe it's because I don't have any achievement syncing. I don't know.

[Cobra951]

Your offline achievements get synched next time you log on.

I was afraid of the Spring XBL update (feared to brick some DVD drives) so I pulled the ethernet cable from the back of my Xbox for a month.  Played Oblivion all that time without a single crash.  (So your box is busy with XBL even when you play solo, because the game doesn't behave that well when connected.)  That was sweet.  Completed all achievements on it too.

[scottws]

For me it all comes back to "I paid for your game, stop treating me like a criminal."  When the pirates have better game experiences than legitimate customers, there is a problem.

[Cobra951]

On the notorious flip side, if you're going to do the time, you may as well do the crime.

[PyroMenace]

On the notorious flip side, if you're going to do the time, you may as well do the crime.

Completely disagree. Piracy gets you no where.

[ren]

This mandatory online thing is bullshit. Does it actually work or is it easily cracked like the old cd checks?

Hopefully other industries don't take any notes. I find it strange how the relatively young and diverse games industry implements more draconian rules than pretty much every other source of media.

[Cobra951]

Next up, video!  You must be online to watch that new movie, even if you aren't streaming it.  New mandatory Bluray firmware could make it happen too.  (I.e., new discs could be made not to work w/o it.)

[Xessive]

Next up, video!  You must be online to watch that new movie, even if you aren't streaming it.  New mandatory Bluray firmware could make it happen too.  (I.e., new discs could be made not to work w/o it.)

That's sorta what happened with the first batch of Avatar Blur-Rays, you had to connect online for it to download an update which would allow the movie to play. For someone like me, that's not really a problem I know how to do it but I'm imagining if my parents bought it and settled in to watch the movie only to be disappointed that it's not working unless they do some intricate task.

[Quemaqua]

And I love how 90% of the people you talk to don't think this is a problem. It's the future, why the fuck are you so backward?

I can't wait for a nuclear war.

[Xessive]

And I love how 90% of the people you talk to don't think this is a problem. It's the future, why the fuck are you so backward?

I can't wait for a nuclear war.

I know! It's such a piss-off!

"Hey, who needs Public Transportation we all have cars! Get with the program!" We don't all have cars, asshole.

[MysterD]

I'm beginning to think that these restrictive DRM measures aren't meant to prevent piracy, rather they seem more like an excuse to monitor the players.

I'll go one step further - I say it's BOTH; they're meant to stop piracy AND monitor players.

Piracy
Let's be real - piracy is a murderer and they're do all they can to get you to perceive that the legit version is the best version. I'm betting most people bought WOW b/c they had to, since the system was so closed.
 
If the only way to play is "always on", then you're stuck in what I call the MMO situation - you'll have to sign into your account and be on their servers to play.

If patches/updates can only be downloaded from the client itself [i.e. Steam for Steam-sold games; Origin for EA's games; U-Play for UbiSoft's games; Impulse for their games; etc], it's gonna make it a pain for hackers to find out what's been updated so they can crack the new version of the game. Another issue - constant updating might make hackers give up. Seriously, TF2 had over 100+ updates. What hacker gonna keep up w/ that?

If Cloud Saving is forced only, then you have to be online to play and continue YOUR game from YOUR last save on their servers.
If saving is done locally on your PC, you can be got around the MMO situation easily, thanks to hackers finding their way around things - see Assassin's Creed 2 PC.


Player Monitoring
Of course they are monitoring players. Probably saves some money on doing intense focus group testing.
Hence the emphasis on Achievements for completing portions of the game - so the dev's and publishers can get an idea of what the player completes and doesn't complete.
And they are taking notes to decide what kind of content should be in the next game and what should not.
Example - If say a majority of the players does every side quest, yet doesn't finish the main quest - they know what has to be improved next time around: main quest.
Example - If very few players played a game as a certain character or certain class, why should they keep that class? Or, how should they improve it so people play as is?