Author Topic: Mass shootings in America.  (Read 4326 times)

Offline Pugnate

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Mass shootings in America.
« on: Friday, October 30, 2015, 06:42:13 AM »
So let me know what you guys think... what if it isn't just a gun control issue?

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/30016/what-if-gun-control-isnt-solely-to-blame-for-mass-shootings-in-america/

Offline K-man

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #1 on: Friday, October 30, 2015, 07:27:16 AM »
Short answer:  It's not.  It's a complicated issue with many contributing factors, and while gun control may be a piece of the solution, it's not a complete problem solver.  The unfortunate thing is that gun control is so politicized that neither side is interested in instituting further reasonable measures.

I grew up around guns and was allowed to shoot guns as a 9-10 year old.  I also had a strong interest in hunting and firearms in general as a child.  I outgrew the hunting thing but firearms still fascinate me to some degree.  That being said I was also taught to respect firearms.  I'm not a nut about them, though.  And I don't obsess over them.  I have 5-6 total, some inherited from my father after he passed, the rest I obtained in my childhood and have kept.  I don't suspect I'll ever have the urge to want more than that.

We have a severely insufficient mental health infrastructure in this country, and having been employed by it for a few years I was able to see this on a personal level.  Couple that with our general attitude toward mental illness and you could see how some might slip through the cracks long enough to do something unfortunate.

The biggest problem, at least in my eyes, is that some don't appreciate the value of a human life and the gravity of taking it from someone.  I could go a lot further with this, but I am currently at work neglecting duties as it is.  I may revisit this later.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #2 on: Friday, October 30, 2015, 08:55:08 AM »
Did you read my article. :(

Offline K-man

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #3 on: Friday, October 30, 2015, 09:48:35 AM »
uh, yes?

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #4 on: Friday, October 30, 2015, 09:55:53 AM »
I just read it.  It's an awesome article, Pug.  I think you're right on point about almost everything you wrote.  We are in serious trouble here, marginalized by a power elite which holds all the cards.  There is no way to fix the system within the system, since it is all corrupt, and any semblance of the oversight intended by the founders is now a joke.

To answer the topic's question, no.  Gun control has absolutely no bearing on mass shootings.  Your statistics are a welcome confirmation of that fact.  If anything, the lack of guns in enough proper hands allows these massacres to continue unabated for way too long.  A single shooter, regardless of how well-armed he may be, should get blown away in short order.  Casualties should be few.  You don't leave a pen full of sheep without sheepdogs guarding them, or a single wolf can slaughter them.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #5 on: Friday, October 30, 2015, 11:20:37 AM »
haha I would appreciate it if you read it K-man. I put 3 days worth of research into it and none of the readers in Pakistan care.

Yes, a lot of it is not respecting human life.

Cobra, first of all, thank you for reading. It means a lot.

I mean if they had no guns they wouldn't be shooting people up. In Sweden some psycho just sliced up people with a sword because that's all he had access to. But I believe gun control is far from the only issue. There are so many factors. So so many factors.


Offline K-man

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #6 on: Friday, October 30, 2015, 12:34:15 PM »
No, Pug, you misunderstand me.  I did read it.  You asked the question, "what if it isn't just a gun control issue?" in your first post and I answered while adding some personal opinions and observations.

It was a good read, and very reasonable.  A big problem is that the vocal parties fighting the gun control battle take the "all or nothing" stance.  No one has any interest in giving up ground.  So in the end, nothing's done.  We do nothing.  And we really do nothing to address the other issues you present in your article.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #7 on: Friday, October 30, 2015, 06:26:42 PM »
haha I would appreciate it if you read it K-man. I put 3 days worth of research into it and none of the readers in Pakistan care.

Yes, a lot of it is not respecting human life.

Cobra, first of all, thank you for reading. It means a lot.

I mean if they had no guns they wouldn't be shooting people up. In Sweden some psycho just sliced up people with a sword because that's all he had access to. But I believe gun control is far from the only issue. There are so many factors. So so many factors.



If they can enact a magical gun control law that evaporates all guns in the wrong hands when it's signed, I'll be all for it.  Until that's possible, the reality of millions of guns in the hands of everyone who wants them won't change with the stroke of a pen.  And only law-abiding people would give them up, meaning only they would then be defenseless against everyone else.  The genie is out of the bottle, and he is not shoving himself back in.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #8 on: Friday, October 30, 2015, 07:16:11 PM »
In complete agreement with you. I do believe in gun control, even though I'm a gun owner myself, because many shootings would be prevented not just through stricter checks, but through how prohibitively expensive firearms would become in unofficial markets (to teenagers and such). Certainly gun control doesn't evaporate existing guns, but it would go a long way toward gradually reducing future problems. That said, I think you hit the nail on the head, that simply removing guns from the equation is not ultimately getting to the root of the problem. It might do a lot to prevent some of these, but the impulses arising in people that cause them to begin with will remain, and will continue to be allowed to grow unchecked, resulting in God only knows what other kind of behavioral weirdness.

America is sick, in so many ways. Physically, mentally, emotionally ... and a growing number of people here see it and don't understand why we aren't doing things to change all these systems which obviously do not work, or that actively cause harm. And it does create a huge and painful sore in people when you tell them that they're the best, they live in the greatest land in the world, that they can do anything, and then they spend their lives suffering setbacks and disappointment, or finding themselves mentally or emotionally beaten down by so much of what they encounter on the road to "success".

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #9 on: Saturday, October 31, 2015, 12:53:10 PM »
Thanks K-Man. :)


If they can enact a magical gun control law that evaporates all guns in the wrong hands when it's signed, I'll be all for it.  Until that's possible, the reality of millions of guns in the hands of everyone who wants them won't change with the stroke of a pen.  And only law-abiding people would give them up, meaning only they would then be defenseless against everyone else.  The genie is out of the bottle, and he is not shoving himself back in.

Yes this is a very fair point.




Offline Pugnate

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Re: Mass shootings in America.
« Reply #10 on: Saturday, October 31, 2015, 12:56:50 PM »
In complete agreement with you. I do believe in gun control, even though I'm a gun owner myself, because many shootings would be prevented not just through stricter checks, but through how prohibitively expensive firearms would become in unofficial markets (to teenagers and such). Certainly gun control doesn't evaporate existing guns, but it would go a long way toward gradually reducing future problems. That said, I think you hit the nail on the head, that simply removing guns from the equation is not ultimately getting to the root of the problem. It might do a lot to prevent some of these, but the impulses arising in people that cause them to begin with will remain, and will continue to be allowed to grow unchecked, resulting in God only knows what other kind of behavioral weirdness.

America is sick, in so many ways. Physically, mentally, emotionally ... and a growing number of people here see it and don't understand why we aren't doing things to change all these systems which obviously do not work, or that actively cause harm. And it does create a huge and painful sore in people when you tell them that they're the best, they live in the greatest land in the world, that they can do anything, and then they spend their lives suffering setbacks and disappointment, or finding themselves mentally or emotionally beaten down by so much of what they encounter on the road to "success".

Yes, America is sick. Something is incredibly wrong if people work hard at 9-5 jobs and still have to worry about money, healthcare and more. What Americans not worried about healthcare e don't realize is everyone gets sick at some point.

Yes, Europeans pay a lot in taxes. But then they have vacation time, health care etc. They are just happier.
« Last Edit: Monday, November 02, 2015, 01:13:56 PM by Pugnate »