Topic: Who the hell is this judge?

[gpw11]

Judge wastes money and time by not throwing cases out of court.

[idolminds]

I cant wait till they find out the game doesnt do anything bad at all and JT gets bitch slapped.

[Quemaqua]

I hate judges.  Pompous and sophomoric products of legal academic societies that think they're somehow more intelligent and capable than the rest of us.  Honorable my ass.  If by honorable you mean eager to waste money and stroke their egos, then yes.

And personally, I think the ESRB does a fine job, so I'm upset to hear them getting lambasted.  I think most people would agree, except for liberals and the politically correct who require that nobody in the universe ever be offended, and who assume that nothing anybody does is ever their own fucking fault.  Like buying a game that they should be well aware they won't like.  You can imagine these people walking into a movie joint and renting a video with giant breasts and pictures of naked people screwing all over it, then bringing it back and saying, "Oh God, I didn't know what this was!  You didn't detail it properly!  YOU MADE ME WATCH PORNO!"

[MysterD]

I hate judges.  Pompous and sophomoric products of legal academic societies that think they're somehow more intelligent and capable than the rest of us.  Honorable my ass.  If by honorable you mean eager to waste money and stroke their egos, then yes.

And personally, I think the ESRB does a fine job, so I'm upset to hear them getting lambasted.  I think most people would agree, except for liberals and the politically correct who require that nobody in the universe ever be offended, and who assume that nothing anybody does is ever their own fucking fault.  Like buying a game that they should be well aware they won't like.

The ESRB does do a good job, for the most part -- yeah, just like the MPAA does w/ movies.

[MysterD]

Who the hell is this judge?

Judge Mills Lane. 

[scottws]

That judge seemed to have complete disregard for the due process of law and made a mockery of his own court.

I'm completely with you Que.  I don't know how other people can tell me what I am and am not allowed to be interested in.

[idolminds]

UPDATE

Bully will go on sale as planned. Jack Thompson is a blowhard.

While Niero is at the courthouse, he’s asked me to blog this for you, so that we can get the information out as soon as humanly possible.

At 1:51, Niero called, saying that the judge will not prohibit the the sale of Bully. In the time that he played the game, the judge said that he did not see anything so violent that would require the game to be held from being shipped. The judge and Take Two employee used a cheat code in order to skip around in the game.

According to Niero, the courthouse got pretty heated, and at one point, the judge had to ask Mr. Thompson to sit down. Also, Mr. Thompson silenced his “expert witness” when he was going to say something.

That’s the immediate answer. Keep refreshing for updates.

[MysterD]

Given that the game was rated T by the ESRB, yuh -- this ruling really ain't surprising. What I expected.

Jack Thompson just gave Rockstar a lot of free publicity for well...basically nothing. Good job, Jack -- I'm sure that is what you *wanted* to do!

I'm sure Bully was gonna sell well b/c it *is* a Rockstar game, but it'll probably sell even more so, now.....

[gpw11]

The judicial is a branch of government that I actually probably have the most respect for, but there are always activist judges that seem to waste time (but to be fair, it works both ways...a lot of activist judges accomplish a lot of good).

 When it comes to things like this you have to wonder what the best course of action would be for a government.  I think we can all more or less agree that from a realist perspective the government shouldn't be getting involved anyways, but in a hypothetical case where it was neccesary, what would be a just course?  The legislative is prone to corruption, incompetence, and special interests, so we couldn't really give them the power to ban anything from a non-biased perspective...but at the same time we'd have to imagine that in such a hypothetial case the legislative would have to be involved as they are the people's representatives and the policy makers.  It would also be ridiculous to give the judicial the authority to act on their own in this kind of case, as it is specifically beyond their intended power to impress their will upon the people.  We'd have to assume that if this kind of thing was neccesary that the legislative would have to make a paticular policy regarding the censorship, and that would have to be tested by the judicial and approved, or rejected.  That seems like the only just way to do this in a democratic republic.

I bring this up because I'm still wondering why the fuck this was even going on in a courtroom.

[idolminds]

JT responds in this email to GamePolitics.com:

    “Immediately after the non-hearing, which violated his own order to give me a hearing, I filed an emergency petition for a writ of mandamus… asking the Third District to compel production of the game and to give me a real hearing on the TRO (temporary restraining order).  The Third District denied it.”

    “…I am a Christian. I am not charged with winning these battles; I am charged with fighting them.  I have done the right thing.”

    “The BBC itself says this is a game with a lot of violence in it, and what is absolutely absurd is the notion that Take-Two can release this game to major media like the BBC and not thereby waive their right to keep it out of the hands of a plaintiff.”

    “The judge never viewed the entire game, as he promised he would.  He took unsworn testimony from 2 Take-Two employees, with no right by me to cross-examine.”

    “The judge’s spiteful ‘production’ of the game after the game was released, on ‘Tuesday morning’ was childish.  The judge, then, violated an order to give me a hearing that he signed.  He violated his own promise to watch the game to conclusion (he did not), and he denied the TRO with absolutely no idea what a video game is and the expert testimony, which he did not want to hear, as to what the harm would be.”

    “When kids start showing up in ERs with slingshot wounds at the hands of Bully enthusiasts, don’t blame me.”

Oh shit, not SLINGSHOT WOUNDS! Think of the children!

Cry more, n00b. He didn't have to play the whole game to find out if its going to be harmful to kids. Like he said, its no worse than what you can see on TV every night. Acctually, the same can be said for GTA3 minus the swear words.

[idolminds]

When I said "cry more, n00b" I didnt expect him to do it so quickly.

Judge Ronald Friedman

Dade County Courthouse

13th Floor

73 West Flagler Street

Miami, Florida 33130

Re: Bully

Dear Judge Friedman:

Now that you have consigned innumerable children to skull fractures, eye injuries from slingshots, and beatings with baseball bats, without a hearing as to the danger, let me tell you a few things, with all respect for your office and with no respect for the arbitrary way in which you handled this matter. I can handle an adverse ruling by a judge. I've had plenty of those in my lifetime, and that's fine. But the way you conducted yourself today helps explain why a great Dade County Judge, the late Rhea Pincus Grossman, could not abide you. She was not the only one:

1. Well into this case, you told Take-Two to produce "a tape of the game so you could watch it." Video games don't come on tapes, Judge, and you don't watch them. You interactively play them, which is why they are so behavior modifying. You, the player/protagonist, enter into the violence and do it, but you didn't even want to hear testimony about that. You are not an expert in bullying or virtual reality, and I had an expert in both, and you never heard from them because you did not want to hear from them. Dr. Provenzo could have explained why interactive consumption of this very violence is so dangerous, as opposed to passively consumed violence on television, but he was not allowed to testify because he was prevented from seeing the evidence.

You were very nice to my other expert, Miami Police Chief Ken Harms, and then made it certain that your courtroom would not be graced with his real expertise. I would have preferred less courtesy and more due process, and so would the victims that are on the way.

2. Take-Two's lawyer, Rebecca Ward, lied in your courtroom when she told you that a "Teen" rating is an age restriction at the point of sale. That is an utter fabrication, and you are on notice that it is an utter fabrication. Ms. Ward is very good at fabricating things for a client that routinely engages in criminal conduct, and you bought all this hook, line, and sinker. Take-Two has been adjudicated by the federal government to have engaged in fraud and deception about game content, and you took their unchallenged word of these two video gamers in your chambers that the game was what they said it was.

3. You assured us, in your courtroom two days ago, that you would view the playing of Bully to its conclusion. That is what you promised on the record. You did not keep your promise. The transcript of that bizarre exercise will show that you asked Take-Two reps "How does the game end?" You never saw the ending. What you took was testimony from two employees of Take-Two/Rockstar, who were not under oath, and without affording me any opportunity to question them. This was an ex parte proceeding that I was forced to watch, nearly gagging on the denial of due process that it constituted. In thirty years of practicing law, it is the oddest thing I have ever seen, and the most judicially arbitrary thing I have ever seen.

But it is not the oddest thing Take-Two has done. They had these little contrived, controlled viewings of the game for people in the media, but even the BBC figured out how violent the game was, despite the sham.

What you conducted in your chambers, Judge, was the equivalent of Iran leading UN weapons inspectors around the country taking them to places where the illegal activity was not occurring.

You would not abide argument today, because the Miami Herald was there, that Take-Two had in fact released this game to the mass media, which waived its privilege as to producing it to me. You did not allow a hearing to occur because the media there would have seen how you railroaded this entire matter--at the expense of children's safety.

4. You said after being shown what Take-Two wanted you to see that "I've seen worse." Judge, that is not the issue. The issue is whether this game, played by ten-year-olds, whom the FTC says can still walk into Wal-Mart and other retail establishments and buy "Mature" games, will harm them and innocent third parties who get in their way. You are not the measure of the harm. It was your job to let me try to prove the harm. But you didn't want to hear it.

5. How dare you, Judge, promise a hearing today and then prevent that hearing from occurring. How dare you, Judge, petulantly order the production of the game after it is released on Tuesday morning. I didn't even ask for that. You did that out of spite, and you were smiling when you did that. You really enjoyed that one, didn't you, Judge?

6. Finally, Judge, when the reports start coming in from across the country as to the harm that Bully is causing, I want you to think of the parents who rely upon judges to grant due process, apply the laws evenly, and keep their word. The Republicans in the Congress of the United States apparently can't protect pages, and the Miami-Dade judicial system can't even protect children, let alone its own reputation.

You broke every promise made me. Disagree with me if you like, but don't refuse to hold a hearing you promised to have. Don't promise to view an entire game and then cut out after an hour.

I couldn't care less what you did to me. What I care is that you, through judicial arrogance, have hung countless kids out to dry in school that will now be meaner and more dangerous.

Next time you promise a "hearing," I'll bring a parent with me whose kid is in the ground because of a kid who trained to kill him or her on a violent video game. Try mocking that person, I dare you.

Regards, Jack Thompson

Copies: Defendants' counsel

Media

Florida Judicial Qualifications Commission

"6. Finally, Judge, when the reports start coming in from across the country as to the harm that Bully is causing, I want you to think of the parents who rely upon judges to grant due process, apply the laws evenly, and keep their word."

You mean like the first amendment, asshole?

[Quemaqua]

I couldn't even read that whole thing.  What a fucking idiot.  What, like bullying hasn't been around for ages?  Like it hasn't been presented in books and comics and movies since time immemorial?  This is nothing new!  This doesn't even BORDER on harmful!  The world is full of idiots and always will be.  Kids will always throw shit at each other.  You aren't the policeman of the universe, and your short-sighted views (which I highly doubt you even truly believe in) do nothing for anyone but yourself, you fucking Philistine.  You inane, cracked, impish little bedlamite.  Capricious little weasel.  Go crawl into a hole and die, please, for the benefit of all mankind.  You are a useless sore in our already wounded society, and all you'll ever accomplish is putting further obstacles between parents and their responsibilities, and between freedom and those who love it.

[MysterD]

Why is Jack Thompson so offended by a game named after himself: Bully? 

[sirean_syan]

I love when he compares this stuff be scary real-world events.

What you conducted in your chambers, Judge, was the equivalent of Iran leading UN weapons inspectors around the country taking them to places where the illegal activity was not occurring.

So, can the judge use any of this to turn around and maybe get his license taken away or something?

[gpw11]

Just don't talk about him, we're all falling into his trap.  That guy's google rating must be like 9 million times what it was 5 years ago.  He's totally going to win the bet.

[Xessive]

Where the Hell was Jack Thompson when True Crime: NYC or 50 Cent's game were made???

If you're gonna attack violent games atleast go after ones which 1) are actually explicitly violent and 2) are games which we can do without!

[Pugnate]

I agree with that last comment Xessive.

[Cobra951]

The problem I have with all of this is that from a legal perspective, the proper course of action has long been decided.  The First Amendment protects expression, and the Supreme Court has consistently done the only logical thing in extending that protection to new forms and media made possible by technology.  The issue before a court, therefore, can never be whether or not a book, movie or videogame can be censored prior to release (with forced non-release being the worst form of prior censorship).  The judge erred in even considering issuing a restraining order.  The plaintiff should have never made it past a perfunctory dismissal for failure to state an actionable case.

[MysterD]

This pic rules...

[Xessive]

Dodgelball! Haha You can't have a "Bully" game without dodgeball

[MysterD]

Dodgelball! Haha You can't have a "Bully" game without dodgeball

"Nobody makes me bleed my own blood!"

[Xessive]

"Nobody makes me bleed my own blood!"

Haha I loved that movie

[MysterD]

8.9 from IGN on this one.