Topic: standard cars

[ren]

I'm about get a manual car, and I've only driven past. Both my parents have driven standard in England so they'll teach me but I'd still like to know some things before I jump in.

so stupid questions that I have:

say I'm in 4th gear and I need to slam the brakes. do I just hit the brakes and then start again from first gear? or am I supposed to do something else?

and I always hear about manuals being annoying on hills. why is that?

what's the deal with engine braking?

[scottws]

You sound really nervous about the whole thing.  Don't worry about it, it's like riding a bike.

say I'm in 4th gear and I need to slam the brakes. do I just hit the brakes and then start again from first gear? or am I supposed to do something else?

You'll almost certainly end up pressing the clutch.  If you slow down to a near-stop, you'll have to press it to keep the engine from stalling (you'll know if it's about to stall... it will start to shake).  Otherwise you'll have to press it anyway to downshift because 4th gear might not have enough oomph to get you up to speed again.

Generally you don't press them at the same time since you will get a bit of engine braking by leaving the clutch out, even in fourth gear.  You just press it when you're ready to downshift or if the engine is about to stall.

and I always hear about manuals being annoying on hills. why is that?

You get used to it and it's no big deal, but at first hills are kind of scary.  Because you need your left foot on the clutch and your right on the gas when you start moving, you don't have any pressure on the brake pedal.

Basically, let's say you are stopped on an incline.  You move your left foot and press in the clutch.  To go, you let your right foot off the brake and start pressing the accellerator as you let off the clutch.  Since you have nothing braking you (engine or otherwise), you basically start rolling backwards.  If someone is riding your bumper, you could hit them.

When you are learning, what helps in these situations is to let the clutch out a little while holding the brake until you feel the engine begin to bog down a little.  This is where the clutch is actually starting to engage.  Now after doing this, when you let of the brake, the backwards movement will be a lot less or even zilch.

After a short time though you will know the clutch well enough that you don't have to do that.  Practicing hills are the best way to learn the nuances of the clutch you're dealing with, because you really have to know where the clutch starts engaging.

One of the things I did while learning was just stop on this huge incline in our work parking lot (the transition between a lowered shipping dock and a regular garage door).  Then I'd just practice over and over again going up the hill.

what's the deal with engine braking?

When you are in a lower gear, there is a higher degree of engine braking.  It's not different in an automatic car.  Put your automatic in a low gear like 1 or 2 (or even just D) and go down a hill.  The car will not gain speed nearly as quicky as it does when you are in OD.

It works the same in a manual.  If you are going down a steep hill and don't want to ride the brakes so much, you can put it in a lower gear and let the engine do a bit of the braking work for you.

Anyway, enjoy!  I love driving manuals.  I wish I had one.

Keep in mind though if you use your cell a lot you'll want a bluetooth headset.  Eating and driving a stick is also a bitch.  Stop-and-go traffic blows pretty bad too.

But I'd trade any day for what you get with a stick:  greater control, better fuel economy, and simply more enjoyment.  They do have a lower resale though in a lot of cases.

[Cobra951]

Lots of good advice from Scott there.  I'd add that the handbrake can be your friend when you're learning to get moving from a complete stop on an uphill.  It takes some of the pressure off of you.  Hold the handbrake with your thumb on the release button until you start to hit the gas and release the clutch.

When I first learned to drive standard, I thought I had to let the clutch out in one continuous motion.  What I found out over time is that it's better to let it out until it starts to engage (you'll feel the car start to move forward) then leave it at that productive position for just a bit, then let it out the rest of the way.

[TheOtherBelmont]

I'm actually about to get a manual car soon too, well hopefully at least.  I'll have to get my mom to teach me how since I'm only used to driving automatic.  My mom had a standard Volkswagen Beetle before I was born but she said she still knows how to drive standard.  I need to find a safe spot to practice inclines like Scott mentioned with his work's parking lot, theres quite a bit of them where I live so I'll need to get good at it.

[Quemaqua]

I completely miss having a manual transmission.  I hate driving automatics.  It's just so much more engaging to drive a manual, since you can make the car do exactly what you want at any given time.  There's just no control over automatics.

I had a bitch of a time getting the hang of hills because my wife (then girlfriend) lived up a ridiculously steep hill around here known as Marin.  There are a few points where it's like all but vertical and there's a stop sign, and it's a really busy street so people are always crowding it.  I stalled numerous times when there were like 10 cars piled up behind me and a few in front of me at a stop sign at the steepest parts.  Man was it ever demoralizing.  But then I went a few times back really late at night when there were less people and I managed to get some practice in.  It's still kind of a bitch to drive a stick up there, but most hills aren't too bad once you get used to them.

I really miss that car.  Damn.  =(

[Ghandi]

I've got a manual, I love it. The best advice I got: Got to a huge hill and learn how to drive manual on that. If you can do it on a big hill, you can do it anywhere.

[shock]

Scott answered all of the questions perfectly.

Driving automatics is SO boring to me.  I can't stand it.  You have absolutely no control over anything.  I just tune out whatever is going on in the road, while manuals force you to actually focus on the driving.

On another note: I love my motorcycle's transmission.  It's much faster and easier to shift than a car.

[gpw11]

Scott pretty much covered it, but just remember it's no big deal if you stall.  A lot of people get flustered and it only leads to more stalling.  Just take it easy and expect to stall a few times learning.  If you really want to learn, sit on the crest of a hill and balance the clutch and the gas untill you fully get where the engage point is.  Obviously, a driveway is best for that. 

Also, Cobra's idea helped me out on some bad hills when I was learning, although I could see how it might be a bitch of a thing to get away from. 

[Antares]

Good advice from all so far.  I didn't really learn to drive a standard transmission until I bought my Mini.  About a year before I got the car A friend took me out one night and I practiced on his civic, then I practiced maybe 4 more times for short intervals over about a year or so before I bought my car, but I'm pretty sure I stalled the Mini about 15 times driving it home from the dealership.  Now I don't think I'll ever go back to an automatic.  Driving is so much more fun, I'm more attentive as a driver, and driving in bad weather is much easier.


After I learned the bare essentials I was still having trouble stalling the car when an unusual situation came up, or I needed to slow down before the clutch was all the way out.  The things that helped me out tremendously was realizing that there is no problem with pushing the clutch back in if you need to.  If the car is about to stall, or the clutch isn't all the way out and you need to stop simply push the clutch to the floor and start over.

what's the deal with engine braking?

To expand on what scott said a little, engine braking is much more common with a standard transmission because it is much easier to do.  I'll downshift before a curve, to slow down on an offramp, or when I know a stop is comming up from a ways off and let the engine help slow the car down. With an automatic you generally only use the lower gears for a prolonged downhill stretch.  This was probably the last thing I learned to do effectively with the car since you have to have a good feel of the clutch as well as what gear to shift into at a given speed.  It is worth it to learn because your car will automatically be in the right gear to accelerate again, and it saves your brakes a ton of wear.

[ren]

I only got to really attempt it for 5 minutes so far, but I stalled plenty. The clutch was way bigger than I had expected. Reading all this makes much more sense now that I can relate to it though. I can go from a stop to moving without stalling now but the car tends to jump forward, no smoothness. But now that I know what I'm actually getting into, I have a decent idea of how to fix my problems. and the car has no power steering or tachometer. it's ghetto

[gpw11]

Heh, neither does my car.  I actually like it that way. 

[Cobra951]

Sound (pitch) becomes your tach eventually anyway.  That lurching forward and stalling is all about not being in tune with the "sweet spot" on the clutch.  You'll find it and get used to lingering there as needed.

Once the car is smoothly launched (moving) then the object of the game is to be in the right gear, and to get there without slipping the clutch at all.

[Pugnate]

I'm about get a manual car, and I've only driven past. Both my parents have driven standard in England so they'll teach me but I'd still like to know some things before I jump in.

so stupid questions that I have:

say I'm in 4th gear and I need to slam the brakes. do I just hit the brakes and then start again from first gear? or am I supposed to do something else?

and I always hear about manuals being annoying on hills. why is that?

what's the deal with engine braking?

say I'm in 4th gear and I need to slam the brakes. do I just hit the brakes and then start again from first gear? or am I supposed to do something else?

It is all very simple, but you can make it difficult if you don't understand the basic concept of it all and start thinking of scenarios and then solutions for them. For example if you start thinking of scenario A, B, C, D, E, F etc. and then wonder about what to do in each situation you will have issues. It will make things needlessly complicated. If you understand how a manual car works then  you'll be able to answer any question yourself.

1. Ideal time to switch gears: 2,500 RPM - 3 000 RPM.
2. In terms of speed: 0-20/25 Kmph first gear, 20/25KMph -40/45 Kmph second gear, 40/45Kmph -55/60Kmph third gear, 55/60 - 80 fourth gear. 80+ fifth gear.
3. You only use the clutch when changing gears or when the car is near stopping.
4. The car will stall if the speed is decelerating to zero, the clutch isn't pressed, and the car is in gear. For example say you are in fourth gear and are planning to stop for a street light. You start braking and only press the clutch when the speed is near say 10kmpn. It isn't because you can't press the clutch earlier, but because you want to refrain from using the clutch when not necessary. You could say be in fourth gear at 60kmph, press the clutch and switch to neutral, then let the clutch go and just continue to softly brake. If you are in neutral you don't need to hit the clutch.

One thing I'd say is if you are just getting comfortable with the stick then screw clutch longevity, and use the it extensively for a week or so. It will take some practice for you to be comfortable with only using the clutch to switch gears to neutral when speed is near zero. For now you can press clutch whenever you brake. It will be good practice for learning to let it go softly. Once you are used to it, start taking care of the clutch.

5. There are no rules about when to change gears aside from speed. I've seen a lot of people religiously go from 4th to 3rd to second and then to 1. You don't have to do that unless you are giving the gar gas in the middle of the gear shifting. For example if you are going at 4th gear and notice you may have to switch to second, you don't have to go to third if you are going decelerate to that speed directly. For example if you see yourself driving at 80kmph on 4th gear, and then wish to slow down to 30 kmph on 2nd, then you start braking till you reach that speed, and then switch gears. Remember if you hit gas while you've got the wrong gear then your car will stall. For example if you decelerate from 80 to 30 and then hit the gas without down shifting, your car will shake and bake. Basically it doesn't matter if you are in the wrong gear for the current speed, as long as you are not giving the car gas i.e. accelerating or not about to stop. If you are at a stop your car will stall in gear unless you hold clutch. Since it isn't a good idea to use the clutch more than necessary, you should put the car in neutral and apply the handbrake. Keep your hand on the handbrake to remind you that it is locked. Sometimes when it is time to go, you can forget the handbrake is locked in, and not all cars have flashing indicators that tell you the handbrake is locked.

Since you are starting, I really suggest you use the clutch and switch gears even when decelerating directly. It is good practice. Also if when braking you are uncomfortable with waiting to use the clutch until the car is near 10kmph, then don't. For now just hit the clutch earlier till you get used to it.

But clutches are sensitive and you have to take care of them. So once you have enough practice, use the clutch only when necessary.

and I always hear about manuals being annoying on hills. why is that?

When driving uphill your car needs more power. Say your car is at a stop and then needs to go up hill. In a situation like that you should keep the car at a lower gear for much longer until it picks up speed.

My driving instructor really made me practice with the hill

Also just read Scottw's post. Excellent advise.

Anyway, enjoy!  I love driving manuals.  I wish I had one.

Yea I purposely buy manuals because it is more fun. People here think I am crazy.

Basically, let's say you are stopped on an incline.  You move your left foot and press in the clutch.  To go, you let your right foot off the brake and start pressing the accellerator as you let off the clutch.  Since you have nothing braking you (engine or otherwise), you basically start rolling backwards.  If someone is riding your bumper, you could hit them.

When you are learning, what helps in these situations is to let the clutch out a little while holding the brake until you feel the engine begin to bog down a little.  This is where the clutch is actually starting to engage.  Now after doing this, when you let of the brake, the backwards movement will be a lot less or even zilch.

After a short time though you will know the clutch well enough that you don't have to do that.  Practicing hills are the best way to learn the nuances of the clutch you're dealing with, because you really have to know where the clutch starts engaging.

One of the things I did while learning was just stop on this huge incline in our work parking lot (the transition between a lowered shipping dock and a regular garage door).  Then I'd just practice over and over again going up the hill.

What he said, except for some reason I just needed a couple of goes to get it right when I was learning. It is just about timing. Once you learn the mechanics and are comfortable it should be second nature.

Say I am parked on a hill and I need to go upwards with a car parked behind me. Now my car is locked in position because of the handbrake. So what I do after starting the engine is press clutch, and put the car in first gear. Next thing I push the RPM to 3000, but I don't let the clutch go yet. Now my hand is on the handbrake and as soon as I release it I let the clutch go and it isn't a problem. I found it really easy.

The thing is that if you are going to get into that situation without practicing, you may get into some trouble because you are likely to let go of the clutch too fast out of nervousness.  Also in normal situations you aren't timing your hand releasing the handbrake with your foot releasing the clutch so it takes a bit of practice. In the end it is really easy.

Scott pretty much covered it, but just remember it's no big deal if you stall.  A lot of people get flustered and it only leads to more stalling.  Just take it easy and expect to stall a few times learning.  If you really want to learn, sit on the crest of a hill and balance the clutch and the gas untill you fully get where the engage point is.  Obviously, a driveway is best for that.

Yea good advise. I seemed to pick up the uphill driving very easily, but when I was learning I had many issues with the clutch release. Everyone stalls, don't worry. Also if people behind you start honking just give them the finger and zone them out. I remember the more nervous I got, the more stalling I got into.

Also my old driving instructor had an interesting phrase for me. Press the clutch like your enemy but let it go like a friend.

what's the deal with engine braking?

I actually don't understand what engine braking means? Someone explain.

[ren]

Scott explained what engine braking is. near the end of the second post in this thread.

I went out for my second time today. much better. I can drive around everywhere without stalling. Starting is smooth half the time, a bit jumpy the other half. Stalling happens, but rarely. Reversing is an entirely different issue. I seem to stall almost every time I try to reverse.

[gpw11]

What type of car are you using?

I think reversing might just be a bit harder because you're thinking about more then usual and you're in a bit of a different position.  Just practice with it more and you'll get it.

And lean to parallel perfectly with that thing.  Trust me, once you can parallel a standard car with no power steering you can parallel anything into pretty much any spot. 

[ren]

1994 Toyota Corolla. pretty close to your car. mid90's tercel? the car is tiny, I'm used to driving a buick.

Even though I've driven manual for less than an hour, driving an auto with power steering is really boring now.

[gpw11]

Yeah, mine's a '93 tercel.  I actually used to drive a '95 Corolla as well.  I'm a huge Toyota fan - best economy cars out there.