Author Topic: The Dark Side of Dubai  (Read 5884 times)

Offline Xessive

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The Dark Side of Dubai
« on: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 10:34:26 AM »
Following the Dubai discussion in that business card thread W&C started I figured it might be a valid pont of discussion. I found an interesting article that summarizes how bad conditions have become in Dubai, beneath the façade of glamour.

Here's a paragraph that expresses one major issue I've been discussing at length with a lot of people in the hope of facilitating a change:
Quote
There are three very different Dubais, all swirling around each other. There are the expats; there are the Emiratis, headed by Sheikh Mohammed; and then there is the foreign underclass who built the city, and are trapped here. They are hidden in plain view. You see them everywhere, in dirt-caked blue uniforms, being shouted at by their superiors, like a chain gang - but you are trained not to look. It is like a mantra: the Sheikh built the city. The Sheikh built the city. Workers? What workers?

It's basically slavery in the guise of labour.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #1 on: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 10:55:13 AM »
Too much of that going on in the world in general.  I expect it to get worse, especially in America.

I don't really have too much to say as I don't know a lot about Dubai in general, other than what I've gleaned from stuff that you've said here.  You aren't still there, are you?

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #2 on: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 11:51:17 AM »
Too much of that going on in the world in general.  I expect it to get worse, especially in America.

I don't really have too much to say as I don't know a lot about Dubai in general, other than what I've gleaned from stuff that you've said here.  You aren't still there, are you?
No, thankfully. I moved to Abu Dhabi (AD) just before the economic crisis hit. Dubai got the brunt of it because of how heavily it relies on tourism and American trade rather its own resources. AD, being the capital city, wasn't impacted quite as badly. There was some influence but it was nowhere near as hard as residents of Dubai got it. A lot of them decided to move to AD and hunt for jobs there.

Even before the crisis things were ridiculous; I was living in a room in a villa shared among 6 housemates and it was costing me $1000 USD per month. That's just a room, I didn't even have my own bathroom I had to share the one and only bathroom with 5 other dudes. That was the cheapest rate available at the time, people were calling me lucky for having found such an "incredibly low rate." That made me think about how leisurely I was living in Canada, specifically in London, Ontario. $800 CAD per month and I had an entire 2-bedroom apt for myself.

I was surprised that people were putting up with the expenses. The crisis just put the pressure on and people were forced to see the crap conditions they were putting up with all along.

The worst part of it all is that expats and labourers can never become citizens, save for a few rare exceptions with members of the royal family vouching for them. Even though expats and labourers helped build this nation into what it is today we will never get recognition. Basically we just thank our lucky stars we haven't crossed anyone mighty or been deported. My family has lived here for the majority of our lives and we're considered foreigners. If for whatever reason the gov't decides to change its policies and deport people like us that's it, we're gone. The sense of "home" is vague because we always have to remind ourselves that we won't necessarily be here for the rest of our lives. It's like living on a drifting raft; you can stay on it for a while but eventually you're gonna need to find solid ground to live on.

Offline WindAndConfusion

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #3 on: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 12:52:37 PM »
Quote
Her husband Daniel bought two properties. "We were drunk on Dubai," she says. But for the first time in his life, he was beginning to mismanage their finances. "We're not talking huge sums, but he was getting confused. It was so unlike Daniel, I was surprised. We got into a little bit of debt." After a year, she found out why: Daniel was diagnosed with a brain tumour.

One doctor told him he had a year to live; another said it was benign and he'd be okay. But the debts were growing. "Before I came here, I didn't know anything about Dubai law. I assumed if all these big companies come here, it must be pretty like Canada's or any other liberal democracy's," she says. Nobody told her there is no concept of bankruptcy. If you get into debt and you can't pay, you go to prison.

"When we realized that, I sat Daniel down and told him: listen, we need to get out of here. He knew he was guaranteed a pay-off when he resigned, so we said - right, let's take the pay-off, clear the debt, and go." So Daniel resigned - but he was given a lower pay-off than his contract suggested. The debt remained. As soon as you quit your job in Dubai, your employer has to inform your bank. If you have any outstanding debts that aren't covered by your savings, then all your accounts are frozen, and you are forbidden to leave the country.

"Suddenly our cards stopped working. We had nothing. We were thrown out of our apartment." Karen can't speak about what happened next for a long time; she is shaking.

Daniel was arrested and taken away on the day of their eviction. It was six days before she could talk to him. "He told me he was put in a cell with another debtor, a Sri Lankan guy who was only 27, who said he couldn't face the shame of his family. Daniel woke up and the boy had swallowed razor-blades. He banged for help, but nobody came, and the boy died in front of him."

Well, isn't that thirty-one flavors of fucked-up.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #4 on: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 01:22:02 PM »
Holy Jesus... I'd have to beg on a minute-to-minute basis for the strength to live in a place like that.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #5 on: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 03:28:10 PM »
Xessive, I really feel your pain dude.


Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #6 on: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 04:43:50 PM »
Xessive, I really feel your pain dude.


Thanks man, I'm one of the lucky ones though.

We're trying to raise awareness in the hope that it will instigate some change but who knows.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #7 on: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 05:13:16 PM »

We're trying to raise awareness in the hope that it will instigate some change but who knows.

Fat chance, and it will not be worth the trouble.

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #8 on: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 05:36:00 PM »
Fat chance, and it will not be worth the trouble.
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. You're probably right though :P It would be more sensible to just move somewhere else.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #9 on: Monday, April 13, 2009, 02:10:25 PM »
Debtor's prison in America is reserved for divorced fathers who can't pay child support.  The government may make your life miserable in less restrictive ways after a couple of months of arrears.  But if the amount grows to 5 figures, you would in effect become a wanted criminal.  So while America is supposed to have as part of its native principles the complete lack of incarceration over debt, don't believe it.  If a court orders you to pay money you don't have, it's effectively the same thing.

That reminds me I DVR'd the 2nd part of Little Dorrit while I was out of town.  Gotta watch it tonight.

Offline WindAndConfusion

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #10 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 06:36:46 AM »
Well, shit.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #11 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 06:47:34 AM »
Well if that isn't fucked up.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #12 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 11:52:11 AM »
Jeezus.

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #13 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 12:49:37 PM »
Fucked up. The number of shit that goes under the radar is unbelieveable. It's kept under wraps to maintain the apaprent "low crime rate" across the country.

I'm glad some of the stuff is seeing the light of day.

I will argue one thing though: it's not the US govt's business. It is the UN's responsibilty to address such issues of torture and human rights violations, NOT the US. No disrespect to the USA but it's not the World Police.. Contrary to Team America: World Police :P

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #14 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 07:24:24 PM »
Too bad the UN is a complete joke and won't do a fucking thing.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #15 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 08:49:23 PM »

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #16 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 11:06:55 PM »
Too bad the UN is a complete joke and won't do a fucking thing.
Yeah, that's the shame (or one shame of many) of the world's current state.

Offline Ghandi

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #17 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 11:25:51 PM »
That neither shocks, nor surprises me.

Indeed. I've got a 3-year-old nephew that is the cutest thing you've ever seen. Runs around and is happy playing with trains and throwing a ball around and chewing gum. I miss those days. :(

--

As for the UN...don't make me laugh. They have nearly as much authority as I do internationally.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #18 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 12:08:36 AM »
I meant in the sense that I know how the wealthy from that part of the world are.

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #19 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 01:01:04 AM »
As for the UN...don't make me laugh. They have nearly as much authority as I do internationally.
I never said they actually had any authority. I merely stated that technically it is the UN's reposibility to handle shit like this, at least in any official capacity. The UN should be the party under criticism here. There needs to be a worldwide outcry about the inaction and ineffectiveness of the UN.

The US should not be responsible for these cases. As far as I'm concerned the US should not be involved with anything outside of its own borders unless it's for reparations and generally making amends.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #20 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 07:38:01 AM »
I agree.  The US has spent far too much time looking outside its borders, and the problems within its own have grown too numerous to count.  With the threat of another flu epidemic coming from Mexico, right now we should be on lockdown.  Borders should be closed, and our worthless idiot fucking president shouldn't be considering ways to make 12 million illegal immigrants legal citizens.  But no, we could never do anything smart like lock ourselves down and just try to fix the broken country.  That would be too smart.  Instead, we'll spend billions more dollars we don't have on programs that don't benefit us at all.  Hooray!

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #21 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 11:18:09 AM »
If I were a US citizen I'd be pissed off. I would've been pissed off over the last 10 years. The US gov't seems to have been actively neglecting its domestic problems, ranging from immigration to the health system.

Anyway, coming back to the issue at hand. I think the release of the video is no coincidence; it is related to the recent revelations of US gov't torture reports. The events on the tape took place a while back.

I think the recent stuff relating to torture worldwide and environmental problems, over the last year, have pushed me to making a big decision in my life. I've decided I want to work in a field that deals with humanitarian issues and responsibilities. I'm sick of being another drone in the corporate collective. I know it sounds overly optimistic and awefully cliché but I have to make a difference or die trying. I can't exist with no purpose. I'm already getting my paperwork together to get back to Canada, where I'll have a better chance of being heard and expressing my opinion without getting hauled off to jail; Human Rights are actually acknowledged there.

I guess it's just a part of my quest to find a job that makes me feel satisfied at the end of the day. A little selfish, I know, but not enough to make me a pretentious prick. I'm just tired of pretending to live rather actually doing what I want, what I need, to do.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #22 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 02:10:41 PM »
Good for you man.  That shows a lot of guts.  I've entertained similar notions, but my complete ignorance about how to get into work that actually helps humanity scares me away.  I even looked at the Peace Corps, but that seems to be for young people without many needs and older people who are independently self-sufficient.  I do have to earn some income doing whatever it is I end up doing.  I can't afford exclusive volunteering.

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #23 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 02:41:30 PM »
Good for you man.  That shows a lot of guts.  I've entertained similar notions, but my complete ignorance about how to get into work that actually helps humanity scares me away.  I even looked at the Peace Corps, but that seems to be for young people without many needs and older people who are independently self-sufficient.  I do have to earn some income doing whatever it is I end up doing.  I can't afford exclusive volunteering.
Thanks man. It means a lot coming from our resident Wise One :)

It's kinda the same with me. Volunteering is tough especially when you have dependants. I volunteer occasionally at some places here, mostly animal care. I mean I would need the job to support me, though for me since I'm single and with no dependants it's much easier to throw myself into high risk, low income scenarios. If it's gonna work it has to at least give me a comfortable living, not extravagant, just good ol' humble comfy.

My aunt, who's a physician, has been working with the Red Crescent (equivalent of the Red Cross) and they recently opened a women's shelter in Abu Dhabi. I helped her in translating some of the stories they received from abuse victims, and man, it's heartbreaking. The human trafficking that goes on, the way some people are mistreated. Holy fuck man, I can completely empathize with Rob DeNiro's character (Travis) in Taxi Driver. Sometimes the idea of taking the law into my own hands makes sense, but the rest of me understands and acknowledges that I could be more productive in the long run if I assert myself in the legitimate channels. This is one of my driving factors now. I hope I can make a notable difference.

Offline Pugnate

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Offline bullshark

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 03:07:13 AM »
I remember a few months ago when this article came out and a bunch of people here talking about it.

I read the article and came to the conclusion that it was mostly sensationalist journalism.  As much sensationalist as those articles praising every aspect of Dubai without mentioning any of its shortcomings.  Reading an article coming from a British newspaper criticizing a country in the middle east for taking advantage of the lower classes seemed a little bit hypocritical.  It wasn't too long ago that the British were trying to bend "lesser civilizations" to their will.

The crazy thing that westerners tend to forget is that our nations and industries take advantage of poor labor all the time.  The difference is here in Dubai, you see it everywhere.  The construction laborers, maids, security guards, janitors, and a multitude of other low wage workers are everywhere, omnipresent.  It's always in your face. 

A man steps out of a $200,000 Mercedes and hands the keys to a valet who makes no more than $300 a month and people scream from the hilltops, "Look!  See how shameful Dubai is?!  Taking advantage of poor people from poor countries and using them as slave labor!"  Of course the problem is that back in his home country he'd be making a hell of a lot less money doing the same job.  I'm not saying this justifies some of the conditions laborers work in, nor am I saying they should be treated like second class people.  I would like to point out that we do the same thing to people in the west.  Though often times it is not so in your face.  We westerners are quick to criticize the cheap labor but sure as hell don't mind shopping at Wal-Mart to get the cheapest junk possible.  Somehow we justify it in our minds the same way people here justify it.  Ah whoever made this shirt is making more than they would as a farmer. 

The article is typical of sensationalist journalism.  It arranges the topic in a strict black and white format when really it is a grey area with many different aspects and nuances that need open discussion.  It focuses on how bad other people are while reinforcing our own western values and systems as being the pinnacle civilization. 

Take the woman living out of her Range Rover.  I feel for her and her story, I really do.  But what a horrible example to use.  Basically she made some bad financial decisions, got into a "little bit of debt", had a family medical emergency at the worst possible time, and then to top it off, got hit by a global economic downturn.  Am I missing something here or can't this scenario play out anywhere in the world?  Granted the jail sentence for debt might be harsh here for but one would think reading the penalties for defaulting on something like a $100,000 vehicle might be prudent when living in a foreign country.

The journalist interviewed drunk people at a bar to get a good bead on what people in Dubai are like?  Excuse me?  Isn't that like going down to a strip club in Vegas and trying to discuss politics?  Not that I have any personal reference for Vegas strip clubs, maybe that is what they do there.

I'm not defending Dubai as the end all be all for modern cities.  I'm just putting Dubai into world context.  Does Dubai have large social and economic problems that need attention?  Absolutely.  But doesn't the US?  Doesn't the UK?  Doesn't every place in the world have good and bad? 

I would also say that the UAE is only thirty seven years old as a nation.  What were we doing in the US thirty seven years after our foundation?  Thirty seven years ago this place didn't exist.  Even twenty years ago there was nothing here.  Despite its myriad of problems, Dubai does have good people here trying to make this a better place on all fronts. 

There is one other unique thing about Dubai, I've personally never been to a place where so many different cultures and religions come into contact with each other and are trying to make a society work.  Just the other night we had dinner with two Iranians, two Americans, a British guy who grew up in Spain, a Syrian, a Saudi, a Pakistani, and an Argentinian.  Granted that doesn't happen all the time but it was a very pleasant and interesting evening.

 

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 04:23:22 AM »
All valid points. I think the reason this is getting criticized as much is that worldwide media is more prominent in this age. Everyone assumes that nations and civilizations age together as well. As you said, every place, every people have good and bad.

By the way Bullshark, I had no idea you were in Dubai! Is the British guy who grew up in Spain you met call Sebastien by any chance?

Offline bullshark

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 04:36:27 AM »
Nah, not Sebastien.

You're in Abu Dhabi now right?  I like AD.  I've only been once so far but it seemed a bit more normal.  Dubai has an LA/Vegas feel to it where AD feels more like...I don't know, more relaxed.

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 04:57:28 AM »
You're in Abu Dhabi now right?  I like AD.  I've only been once so far but it seemed a bit more normal.  Dubai has an LA/Vegas feel to it where AD feels more like...I don't know, more relaxed.
Yeah, which is why I moved to Abu Dhabi. I was in Dubai for a while, I was working in Media City.

For me, Dubai is a great place to visit but living there and dealing with its intricacies on a daily basis becomes too much. Plus not having a car in Dubai is like SCUBA diving without an oxygen tank, you won't last long. There are no crosswalks or overhead passages either, it's like the authorities have some vendetta against pedestrians! Although finally they're adding some near the metro stations.

Offline scottws

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 05:20:46 AM »
bullshark... I'm having trouble drawing a frame of reference around your post.  You refer to both the U.S. and the U.A.E. as "we".

Offline bullshark

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 05:39:55 AM »
About not having a car in Dubai...i've talked to some people who live near Marina, JBR, etc and they don't seem to have a problem.  I'm with you though, I don't know how they do it.  I currently live on the Deira side and we are always going to JBR and other parts of town for dinner, walking, etc. so not having a car for me would be horrible.  I'm actually thinking we might move to JBR in the next few months, we'll see.

The metro should be done in September and everyone is waiting to see how and if that will change things.  The problem with the metro is that if the price is too high for low-middle class, then who will ride it?  It will be interesting to see what the cost is.



Scott, Can you be more specific?

Offline scottws

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 06:54:44 AM »
Nevermind, I for some reason when I was reading the following quote, I thought you were referring to Arab nations when you said "our nations".  I think it's because they way you referred to westerners as if you were not one of them (or so it seemed).

Quote
The crazy thing that westerners tend to forget is that our nations and industries take advantage of poor labor all the time.  The difference is here in Dubai, you see it everywhere.

Offline bullshark

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 08:22:36 AM »
Ah I see.  I am a westerner living in the middle east.  In that specific sentence the word "our" is referring to western nations. 

I'm not trying to trivialize the original topic but you know they have bowling here?  You haven't lived until you've been bowling in the middle east.  They even have bowling leagues...Also, the number of American chain restaurants here is mind boggling.  All the typical fast food joints are here, McDonalds, BK, Taco Bell, etc. but every once in a while you'll see a sign for something crazy like Dominoes or Ponderosa.  Shoot, they even have Johnny Rockets and Fuddruckers.  It's a strange land I tell you.

Don't get me wrong, I have many complaints about Dubai.  But I also have many complaints about LA, SF, Seattle, or any other place I've ever been in.  I remember in Seattle we used to complain about rude people in the city, corrupt politicians, horrible traffic, rednecks, hippies, and Canadians all the time...no I kid, I love Canada.  Actually there are a ton of Canadians here in the UAE. I think they are lured here by the nonexistent taxes and big glowing orb in the sky we Americans like to call, "The sun."


Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 12:41:23 PM »
In all honesty I kinda played by the stereotype of the Arabian desert nomad and tribal culture when I was in Canada, in the university dorms. It was just fun to mess with people sometimes :P At first it was all kidding and sarcasm until I realized they actually believed that I lived in a tent, had no concept of technology, and killed a member of a neighbouring tribe for stealing one of my father's camels. Then I had to reintroduce them to my world through slideshows. They were shocked and awed that we not only had cars and phones, we had  better cars and phones! ;D hehe good times.

One thing you'll notice about modern Arabic culture: it revolves around American pop culture. The idea is "if it's American it's better." At least as far as restaurant chains go. It's the same as the spectacle of Hollywood.

I remember when McDonald's first opened here, all the rich kids were the first in line. It was packed with people all the time. I had never been to North America at the time but what I thought at the time was "good, now Hardee's will have some free seats." Then T.G.I. Friday's opened and holy monkey. I believe plenty more American chains will be opening up here too. Oh, we've got a Church's Chicken now too but it's called Texas Chicken, since Church's Chicken would literally translate to "chicken from a church" in Arabic :P

Offline bullshark

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #34 on: Friday, June 05, 2009, 03:30:07 AM »
I don't know this Church's Chicken.  Is it like KFC?

I think one of the greatest things about Dubai for me so far is Cuban Cigars.  There are Casa Del Habanos cigar cafes here that are fully stocked with all the finest Cuban brands.  My current favorite is Partagas 898.  Perfect Cuban, just strong enough but not too strong.  It is packed with flavor and has a great aroma.  To top it off, it is cheaper than most of the good cigars too.  It comes in at 35 dirhams which is almost ten dollars.

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #35 on: Friday, June 05, 2009, 03:58:01 AM »
Yeah, but better than KFC! ;D

I'm not a smoker but I know a lot of people who appreciate cigars and pipes.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #37 on: Monday, January 11, 2010, 07:22:41 AM »
For fuck's sake.  Somebody needs to bring lynch mobs back into fashion.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Dark Side of Dubai
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 09:26:08 AM »
He's got a lot of friends in high places. This was essentially expected. It's fucked up. Seeing criminals walk is one thing but seeing a renowned sadist walk is infuriating.

The saddest part is that there's nothing anyone in the country can do about it unless they're citizens; citizens are the minority in the UAE. Just to give you an idea of how much of a minority: the UAE's population is approx. 4.4 Million (as of 2008) and only 15-20% are citizens.

By the way, in the UAE if anyone talks about this sensitive matter publicly they could be dragged to jail. What grounds? Slandering an official figure or some such nonsense.