Topic: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.

[idolminds]

The Guild Wars model is more player friendly, I think. Buy the expansion, play online free as much as you want. Nothing is locked away behind a fee, they can't take stuff away from you if you stop "paying" as it were. In Hellgate, if you stop paying the fee you aren't allowed to use any of the extra content. No more hardcore mode, you lose the extra character slots (the characters remain, you just can't play any outside of the 3 you choose), you lose your extra storage space, you cant use the elite weapons and armor you've collected, etc.

Guild Wars doesn't do that stuff. I can play when I want, whatever class I want, keep all my loot, my storage box, PvP...whatever. Its a much nicer feeling.

It also remains to be seen how long the Hellgate team can keep up the pace with creating new content. People are going to get pissed if the level of content doesn't meet their expectations. Expectations will be high since they are already seemingly paying for it.

It also smacks of greed because they charge a fee plus have in-game ads.

[MysterD]

The Guild Wars model is more player friendly, I think. Buy the expansion, play online free as much as you want. Nothing is locked away behind a fee, they can't take stuff away from you if you stop "paying" as it were.

Agreed.

In Hellgate, if you stop paying the fee you aren't allowed to use any of the extra content. No more hardcore mode, you lose the extra character slots (the characters remain, you just can't play any outside of the 3 you choose), you lose your extra storage space, you cant use the elite weapons and armor you've collected, etc.

Which sucks.

Guild Wars doesn't do that stuff. I can play when I want, whatever class I want, keep all my loot, my storage box, PvP...whatever. Its a much nicer feeling.

Amen.

It also remains to be seen how long the Hellgate team can keep up the pace with creating new content. People are going to get pissed if the level of content doesn't meet their expectations. Expectations will be high since they are already seemingly paying for it.

I also wonder how much BETTER and IMPROVED some of the "new content" will be, given how many game reviews and gamers have said how the questing can get very repetitive and suffers from "too much of the same."

It also smacks of greed because they charge a fee plus have in-game ads.

Right on -- preach it, Idol!

[Xero]

I will be honest and say I don't know much about Hellgate, so maybe I shouldn't respond here, but I feel like the issue is that Blizzard never charged extra to play on its servers, Blizzard doesn't charge extra because of their long development cycles.  To be honest, the only games that have historically been pay-to-play are most MMOGs, with a few games making an attempt at purchasing micro upgrades (horse armor).

You're exactly right. Pay for content games are trying to make headway.  It seems developers think its a good way to make money. As greedy and whorish as it may sound to you(and everyone here it seems) at the end of the day these guys still need money to run a business. By no means am I saying it was the solution I had wanted them to do, (I would prefer to buy my content in packs for a one time price as well) but it is they way they went and I'm not gonna damn them for making a judgement call. I really enjoy the game so I hope it doesn't bite them in the ass.

The Guild Wars model is more player friendly, I think. Buy the expansion, play online free as much as you want. Nothing is locked away behind a fee, they can't take stuff away from you if you stop "paying" as it were. In Hellgate, if you stop paying the fee you aren't allowed to use any of the extra content. No more hardcore mode, you lose the extra character slots (the characters remain, you just can't play any outside of the 3 you choose), you lose your extra storage space, you cant use the elite weapons and armor you've collected, etc.

Guild Wars doesn't do that stuff. I can play when I want, whatever class I want, keep all my loot, my storage box, PvP...whatever. Its a much nicer feeling.

Yea I'm not arguing that it was a great move. The closest thing I can compare it to is a dirty bastard child of Oblivion's system and Guild wars and not really as good as either. What I am saying is if you don't like it don't pay. You still get everything that is in the single player. From the sounds of it besides a beta test or alpha test not many of you have judged the game by actually playing it. People have posted reviewer score after reviewer score to what end?  Tell me if Crysis, Witcher, or Assassin's creed got mediocre scores would you care? Nah. Probably not. It does, however, fuel a certain dislike of a game because of the previous issue. Alot like Halo 3.  The game itself is pretty damn fun with a group, yet because of its horrible fanboy base and general negative appeal, it to got bashed pretty well on these boards without many people actually having played it from what I could tell.

but, meh.

[MysterD]

Hexus likes Hellgate

[Quemaqua]

Nobody here likes they way they've done things, and when their wallets are on the line, that's all that matters.  Personally I hate the Hellgate model, and that coupled with EA's little "let us examine all the programs you're running" bullshit, it's enough to keep me well away from the game.  There's nothing wrong with that.  It doesn't matter if the game is the most fun thing ever, because those are the problems keeping me away from the game, and unless those get resolved, I'm not touching it.  End of story.  It isn't like "well, I'll change my mind if the game totally rocks".  No, I don't care about the quality of the game.  They can make the best game they want, and more power to them, but I hate the way they handled this and it's soured the whole deal for me.  If others are willing to put up with it, fine, but I'm not one of them.

And what the hell is wrong with judging something without playing it?  I can look at Love and Flowers Romantic Comedy with Meg Ryan # 673, and I think it's a pretty clear indication given my taste that I'm really not looking to plunk down cash and waste time watching something I'm pretty damned sure that I'm not going to like.  So what, now I have to play Halo 3 to be sure that I won't like it?  I can't judge from what I've seen, read, and the past experiences I had with the other two games?  This doesn't hold entirely true for me because I did get to play it a bit, but there's no fucking way in hell I'd pay 60 bucks for that, and I don't have the inclination to go to the trouble of renting it because I just don't care.

I fail to see why having a negative opinion these days suddenly bans everyone from reason.  I don't mean to sound confrontational about it, but it's just sort of getting weird.  People make judgment calls.  You have to make judgment calls.  It's part of life.  Plenty of people didn't like Clive Barker's Jericho, and I loved it.  I'll tell them why and extol the virtues any time, but do I *really* care if an individual doesn't dig it, or assumes from what they've read and seen that they won't?  No.  Not everybody likes everything, and generally people make pretty decent assumptions when it comes to entertainment products.  Sometimes they might be surprised, and sure, sometimes something might get railroaded in reviews even if it doesn't deserve it, but so too do things get too much praise, so too do people think they'll really love something and find out that they actually hate it.

It just comes down to the fact that we all take the chances we're willing to take, and for many of us, Hellgate just isn't worth the risk.

[Pugnate]

Xero, personally, I am not judging the gameplay. Like Que and Scottws have said, we are just turned off by the whorish attitude. The game could kick a lot of ass.

[Xero]

Nobody here likes they way they've done things, and when their wallets are on the line, that's all that matters.  Personally I hate the Hellgate model, and that coupled with EA's little "let us examine all the programs you're running" bullshit, it's enough to keep me well away from the game.  There's nothing wrong with that.  It doesn't matter if the game is the most fun thing ever, because those are the problems keeping me away from the game, and unless those get resolved, I'm not touching it.  End of story.  It isn't like "well, I'll change my mind if the game totally rocks".  No, I don't care about the quality of the game.  They can make the best game they want, and more power to them, but I hate the way they handled this and it's soured the whole deal for me.  If others are willing to put up with it, fine, but I'm not one of them.

Thats perfectly fine. I did however admit to Pyro  sometimes I think this board has a very heavy mob mentality.  Now that could just be because you all share such close opinions on things you tend to agree or something as far fetched as its just easier to agree. Hell I'll be honest, I've been playing devil's advocate through this just to see someone disagree.  At the end of the day I bought the game, I play the game, anyone who wants to run with me is welcome and everyone else can do whatever else they want.

And what the hell is wrong with judging something without playing it?  I can look at Love and Flowers Romantic Comedy with Meg Ryan # 673, and I think it's a pretty clear indication given my taste that I'm really not looking to plunk down cash and waste time watching something I'm pretty damned sure that I'm not going to like.  So what, now I have to play Halo 3 to be sure that I won't like it?  I can't judge from what I've seen, read, and the past experiences I had with the other two games?  This doesn't hold entirely true for me because I did get to play it a bit, but there's no fucking way in hell I'd pay 60 bucks for that, and I don't have the inclination to go to the trouble of renting it because I just don't care.

Ok now see, this I can both understand and have a problem with in part.  There is something wrong with judging something without playing it when it pertains to a normal interest. So far as I know Meg Ryan and Love and Flowers I can't see you taking part in on a regular basis unless forced to.   A diablo like hack-n-slash however would seem to be something a regular gamer would be interested in.  So you make a judgement call on that based on what? A EULA?  Well if thats the reason, sure be pissed at the company and don't play it. Then you can't comment on the game itself, just the shitty under dealings of its makers. Halo 3 is one of those things...I'm pretty sure I read you didn't like the previous ones so no, no reason to check out the third one.  Basically you showed interest in the game, yet now because of shady business practices you act like the game is shit. Lets keep it about who you're pissed at not what. Again though, you don't wanna play the game, screw it don't play.

I fail to see why having a negative opinion these days suddenly bans everyone from reason.  I don't mean to sound confrontational about it, but it's just sort of getting weird.  People make judgment calls.  You have to make judgment calls.  It's part of life.  Plenty of people didn't like Clive Barker's Jericho, and I loved it.  I'll tell them why and extol the virtues any time, but do I *really* care if an individual doesn't dig it, or assumes from what they've read and seen that they won't?  No.  Not everybody likes everything, and generally people make pretty decent assumptions when it comes to entertainment products.  Sometimes they might be surprised, and sure, sometimes something might get railroaded in reviews even if it doesn't deserve it, but so too do things get too much praise, so too do people think they'll really love something and find out that they actually hate it.

Oddly enough I completly agree with what you said here. In case you've missed it I spoke up saying I liked the game even though the mass majority of votes on here were against it. I very much understand not everybody likes everything. I continually amaze Pyro at the seemingly random bands I do and do not like that he loves. It makes for some amusing conversations but because I don't like Opeth and he does doesn't mean I'm gonna talk shit about the band except in jest. Oddly enough he got me to like Dethklok (or however it is spelled)  Just because I like Hellgate doesn't mean I expect any of you on here to, but I figured I'll throw out my 2 cents (or about a dollars worth at this point I think).

Xero, personally, I am not judging the gameplay. Like Que and Scottws have said, we are just turned off by the whorish attitude. The game could kick a lot of ass.

Thats understandable Pug, I think its kinda crappy to but I'll still play the free online play. I may not get the Guy Fawkes mask for the Nov. 5th stuff, or the other goodies they come out with but I still have a good game to play for awhile.

Oh and Que, decaf man. I thought Keeb's was supposed to be the angry one. 

[Pugnate]

Thats perfectly fine. I did however admit to Pyro  sometimes I think this board has a very heavy mob mentality.  Now that could just be because you all share such close opinions on things you tend to agree or something as far fetched as its just easier to agree. Hell I'll be honest, I've been playing devil's advocate through this just to see someone disagree.  At the end of the day I bought the game, I play the game, anyone who wants to run with me is welcome and everyone else can do whatever else they want.

You haven't seen our "serious" boards have you? haha...

Que and I have had our angry exchanges, though its all good in the end..

I think we are all in agreement about Hellgate, but we do differ on games a lot as well. For example Que dislikes Neverwinter Nights, Splinter Cell, Halo, most human beings, and cute little puppies. I happen to like all of those... well except for the human beings.

He loves pure shooters like Painkiller, Serious Sam, Pure Puppy Killer 6, and Doom 3. I didn't like those as much as he did, so yea.

In fact if you asked all of us to list things in common you'd be surprised to note that nothing aside from goat pr0n makes the list.

[Xessive]

You haven't seen our "serious" boards have you? haha...

Que and I have had our angry exchanges, though its all good in the end..

I think we are all in agreement about Hellgate, but we do differ on games a lot as well. For example Que dislikes Neverwinter Nights, Splinter Cell, Halo, most human beings, and cute little puppies. I happen to like all of those... well except for the human beings.

He loves pure shooters like Painkiller, Serious Sam, Pure Puppy Killer 6, and Doom 3. I didn't like those as much as he did, so yea.

In fact if you asked all of us to list things in common you'd be surprised to note that nothing aside from goat pr0n makes the list.

Hahaha you guys are awesome

I'm curious about Hellgate, but I'm a singleplayer advocate and the impression I'm getting is that it's more of a MP with a complementary SP campaign.

[Quemaqua]

Again, Xero, I didn't mean to seem confrontational at all.  But I was a little wired last night, heh.

I think we're all roughly on the same page when you get down to it.  Nobody's bitching about the game itself, because we're all fans of such Diablo-style RPGs, and I'm sure we'd all enjoy it (I played the alpha, so I do know to some degree what to expect from it), and those of us abstaining are mostly doing so just because of the financial model and some of the other stuff.  If you look back far enough, you'll find that most of us were pretty excited about hopeful about this in the beginning, many of us well into recent development.

And yeah, I'd say there are a *few* things where a lot of us happen to agree, but you'll find an awful lot of disagreement here over certain things.  Even Halo.  It has plenty of supporters here, they just aren't always as vocal about it.

But that's what I like about it here.  Pug and I are buddies even though I've said and done horribly jackassish things in the past, and he doesn't hold them against me because he has come to accept the fact that I'm an idiot.  Most of us get along pretty well here, even when we don't agree on things.

[Pugnate]

I'll have you know that it was I who was the jackass.

See Xero, we can't even agree on that.

[idolminds]

Pure Puppy Killer 6 is out already? Time flies when you're having so much fun.

[scottws]

Xero, I think you'll come to learn that we are a very opinionated bunch when it comes to control of our computers.  When someone comes around and starts peeping at what else is installed, in some cases uninstalling or disabling other software, or refusing to run their software due to what is found, or even simply sending out what's there, we don't like it one bit.

As far as the for-pay model, as I said before we aren't used to paying for what Hellgate is charging for and it is rubbing people the wrong way.

But I think you're right when you say we seem like a very opinionated bunch and sometimes succumb to mob mentality.  To be honest though, we are a community of what... 30 people?  I think there is a reason we stuck together for so long.

[Pugnate]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/832/832739p1.html

IGN 6.8

Closing Comments
At the end of the day Hellgate: London delivers an experience that is fun for a few hours but quickly grows repetitive. The stat-driven combat takes the player one step away from the action and the modular levels and peripheral nature of the story keeps players from investing in the world. Balanced against that are levels that are virtually teeming with enemies and a loot and upgrade system that gives you a real sense of progress every minute that you play. Your own enjoyment of Hellgate will naturally depend on your tolerance for the repetitious levels and your overall desire to find the perfect combination of skills and items that will allow you to take on the toughest of the game's challenges with ease. Unfortunately for Hellgate, our tolerance and desire levels just aren't what they used to be.

I find funny is that PCG have given it 89%, and are the only respectable publication to give it such a high score... I mean that high?

Is it a coincidence that Hellgate made their cover not long before, and they had the developer do a huge editorial in the back pages? I think their score was trying to save face.



----------------------------------------------

Just checked out the PCG forums. Check this thread out:

Hellgate London Subscribers: Check with your bank now

I'm posting this here simply to make people aware. The HGL subscription service currently has "a bug" that is overcharging some, but not all customers. Those affected are being billed DAILY what should be charged monthly, quarterly, annually, etc. For example I signed up for 3 accounts (2 kids play as well) on the 2nd and have been billed for another $30 on the 3rd, 4th, 5th and today. Some have reported the lifetime subscription being billed repeatedly.

I have been unsuccessful in getting a response from their support team. A call to their number (listed on the last page of the manual) got me nowhere. They said contact my bank. In the support forums they claim they are "working on it".

I'm sure they are but the subscription service is still taking new customers. I made a post like this one in the HGL forums and within an hour over 100 people replied that they had no idea they were being overbilled until reading the post and contacting the bank. The thread was suddenly deleted and my account was banned. Ciest La Vie. Hopefully PC Gamer realizes this is important and allows viewers the opportunity to not let their bank funds be squandered. I'm happy to reword/repost in a different topic if this isn't the right one, but don't just shut it down and let people find out after even more charges.

there are also reports of 90% subscriptions ending right when you cancel them, even if you have 29+ days left to play.

not like we didn't see this coming, beta testers were screaming bloody murder on nearly every public forum - i love how non beta testers were so pepped up on fanboy hype as to flame and dismiss what we said, now they know why we said it.

I don't like this game and have no idea of buying it for many reasons. But The way they are handling it, like deleting your thread and forum account is lame and unprofessional. If anything they should have just given an explanation and apology and just locked the thread. But deleting it like nothing ever happened is just childish. I hope PC gamer will show that it's got some balls and make this very public. Like they did with Bioshock's anti-piracy crap.

I went to the forums to talk about the lack of LAN play. While some fanboys jumped me, a LOT of people expressed support. Within HOURS the thread was removed. It is like there is a marshal law on these forums.

Well some guy beat me to it:

Hellgate: London review: 89%?!?!

It's been a long time since a game inspired so much hate in so many people. It's really quite amazing.

[MysterD]

GamePro interviews Roper in regards to the HG community and critics alike.

GP: I can imagine. I've seen some really withering criticisms in those forums...

Bill Roper: I think there was some confusion about what the game was going to be initially, [particularly] free play versus subscribing. I think there's still a lot of that. It's honestly confusing to me about the way people react to the subscription option in Hellgate. It's been more of a challenge to us than we anticipated. The whole idea was to give everybody what they wanted. Because we're doing this hybrid model, it's almost like people try to figure out how we're screwing them... but we're not! For subscribers, it's actually less than other MMOs like Tabula Rasa or World of Warcraft [$9.99 versus $14.99]. We're not trying to hose you, we're just trying to give people what they want.

If you gave the people what they'd want, there would be no subscriber-fee.

But yeah, it can be tough to go on the forums. You try to explain things and interact with the community, but there's a small percentage of people that will never be happy no matter what. You could pay them $5 a month to play your game, and they'll complain that they want $10.

Pay me $5 or $10 a month to play Hellgate???

I'm sure us PC gamers wouldn't mind a check from Roper every damn month, even if it ain't for much.

[Pugnate]

Seriously, I am starting to dislike this guy. He sounds like whiny child.

From the reviews I read, this game has next to zero storytelling. How does it qualify as an MMO?

Anyway I found an Asian only version for $19. I am going to go for it.

[MysterD]

7.0 from GameSpot.
And oh, Gertsmann reviewed it.

Hellgate: London is a likeable action role-playing game that answers the question "What would happen if you took all the loot lust from Diablo and fit it into a first-person shooter?" OK, maybe you weren't asking that question, but Hellgate is an interesting game. It will probably come into its own after a few more patches, but right now, it has almost as many issues as strengths.

Why did EA and Flagship have to ship the game so early???

The game takes place in London, naturally, and it's the near future. A large gate to hell--some might call it a "Hellgate" of some kind--has opened and demons have been spewing forth from it. The storyline has you, as a character in one of six classes, falling into an adventure that puts you on a path to seek out various oracles, kill a whole lot of demons, and eventually penetrate the Hellgate itself. But the storyline is rather limp. It's best conveyed by prerendered cutscenes that play out between each of the game's acts, but there are hours of often poorly written quest dialogue text and flat character exclamations between those cutscenes. The game can't seem to make up its mind as to whether or not it wants to be serious or funny, and the characters that have been placed in the game for comic relief don't work very well, with the possible exception of a guy who, through your actions, ends up having a small demon hump his face for the rest of the game. The game also has a handful of technical issues, including frame rates that randomly take a dive and hard lockups that, depending on when they occur, might make you play through a significant chunk of the game again.

Damn....

This storyline plays out the same way whether you play offline or online, which essentially means that the offline mode is useless. The main point of this game is collecting loot and upgrading your character. Considering that you'll find a ton of loot that your character class can't use and that the most important part of tricking out your character is the ability to show it off to other people, there's no good reason to play offline.

There's a point to playing it alone -- to play it by yourself and w/out worrying about a need to be on the Net to play the game!!

But, I think what Gertsmann means is that there's so much loot, you might want to play it online so that you can share it w/ others, since you won't carry most of it yourself.

While you can certainly play the game online for free and experience most of what Hellgate has to offer, you can also subscribe for $10 a month. Right now, the main benefits for subscribers are access to a harder difficulty setting, more character slots, and more room to store gear. You also get to partake in various themed events. There have been two such events as of this writing, one based on Halloween and one based around Guy Fawkes Day. These events add a few quests, but their primary function so far seems to be adding a bunch of annoying little drops to the game, such as apples, potatoes, or blueprints, for pets and stuff. Considering you have limited inventory space, it all just gets a little overwhelming.

If you love hoarding stuff and don't mind repetition, Hellgate: London is a really neat but often uneven game that will probably keep you busy for at least a month or two, even if you don't subscribe. But, for many, the game's issues will be a real deal breaker. If you're on the fence, you might want to watch the game's patch notes to see how many technical glitches, as well as other annoyances, are cleared up.

Sounds like Gertsmann is NOT impressed w/ the subscriber stuff at all -- especially since he thinks there's at least a good deal to do right-out-the-box w/out the subscriber stuff; even if you play offline and alone.

I don't think many are impressed w/ the subscriber stuff, though.

[Xessive]

Seriously, I am starting to dislike this guy. He sounds like whiny child.

From the reviews I read, this game has next to zero storytelling. How does it qualify as an MMO?

Anyway I found an Asian only version for $19. I am going to go for it.

Haha he sounds like he's having trouble at home and just taking it out at work

Really?! Every MMO I've played was like minimal on the story, except for the all-too-common main quest to "save the world."

[scottws]

I find the story complaint interesting as well.  I mean it sounds like Diablo to me with the video between acts and I've never heard anyone complain about Diablo's story.

[Xero]

I disagree with him about the story. Its a neat little story. Its no Half life or Max Payne (Bad examples but my brain is fried from working) but I am enjoying it.  The NPC's sometimes can be a little boring but they have a some random one the say things like this merchant I found. You go talk to him and he sings "I need money for booze and whores!" or "Come back if they faulty $%^ I sold you doesn't blow up!" Little side quests are nice distractions.  A templar wants to date a hunter female, whose idea of a date is sending him out as bait while she snipes safely away at her game. You help him by setting up a defense so he doesn't die.

The main storyline itself is of a nobody soildier whose stumbles accidentaly upon the way to defeat hell and then you progress through. Thats about all I say for those who want to play through eventually but its pretty neat I thought. Again no Oscars will be won but its a decent storyline IMO.

Right now from everything I see the subscription is a bit on the BS side. Besides the extra character slots and bigger stash, you are getting holiday items like Guy Fawkes day. Pretty much thats all they've added atm but if they actually come through with all the stuff they promised it would be worth it. Right now.....not so much.

[Pugnate]

I find the story complaint interesting as well.  I mean it sounds like Diablo to me with the video between acts and I've never heard anyone complain about Diablo's story.

No that's what I was thinking. But Diablo did have some story and a great atmosphere. I just read the review, and apparently the sparse dialog is poorly written and senseless, as if it were a foreign game.

So what makes Hellgate worth playing? That's the craziest part. Hellgate: London is saddled with a variety of issues, yet it still manages to be totally addictive and compelling because it expertly handles one of gaming's oldest clichés: new stuff. New items and money are constantly popping out of enemies when you mow them down. Each item--even the ones that aren't suitable for your character class--is also useful in some way. You can, obviously, sell items back to any merchant in the game, but you can also break items down into base components that are the backbone of the game's crafting system. With a blueprint, some runic fragments, and a whole mess of rare tech boards, you can make new items. But you can also use those same items to upgrade your existing gear. When you find the exact type of rifle or a pair of pants with bonus stats that really help out your character, you can use these components to make sure the items remain useful as you (and your enemies) get tougher. This means you never really have to outgrow your gear, though you'll also find plenty of new, useful gear as you play.

They were selling the official local market version for $20, so I bought it.

I might wait for patches though.

[Pugnate]

Well I decided to install it on Vista, and it wouldn't run. Apparently on Vista with an 8800 there are some 'memory leaks' that are causing problems.

So I fired it up on XP, and from first impressions, it is pretty cool. The game feels like you are in Diablo except thrust into first person. I've only tried a blade master so far, but the combat is addictive and a lot of melee fun.  Unfortunately it does lack in the 'oomph' factor.

Even Oblivion with its simplistic combat had a lot of impact where it mattered. Still I can see myself playing this for hours.

I am not sure if it is a bug, but there doesn't seem to be music music?

Now for the bad stuff. While the opening FMV is awesome, the game seems to lack the atmosphere of something like Diablo. Plus interacting with NPCs is extremely disappointing.

It feels like the game's engine was constructed, the combat and skill system fine tuned, and the storyline and NPC interaction slapped on in the last minute. The NPC interaction is ridiculously bad. You click on an NPC, and dialog just rolls out, without it even appearing like it is coming from someone. The NPCs feel a bit detached.

I am afraid this isn't something that can be corrected with patching, and is something players will have to live with. From first impressions, it seems like the only time you will care about an ingame character is during the FMV. While in Diablo the storytelling was thin, the main storyline that carried was strong, and the the sparse dialog was exchanged with some style.

And the animations do appear to be a touch goofy, but maybe that's me.

Will post more once I play again after patching.

[MysterD]

75 from ActionTrip
71% from YouGamers.com

GamersWithJobs.com gives no review, but they do basically say "go play Diablo 2 for 6 months, while Flagship fixes the issues with the game"

[MysterD]

Always seems to be something up w/ this game.

The Asian localized version of Hellgate has an new issue, too -- to use the new patch, you will need to wipe your character out.....

Hellgate Asian Character Wipe [November 10, 2007, 6:28 pm ET] - 28 Comments

Kotaku has word on issues applying the update dubbed Patch0 to the Asian Hellgate: London servers run by IAH Games (thanks nin). While the western launch of Flagship's action/RPG has been decidedly rocky, the troubles with the eastern launch have been more dramatic, and it turns out that a complete character wipe will be required to implement the required update. As a result, they are offering free subscription time to impacted players, and they say that future patches will be installed at the same time on eastern and western servers. The character wipe and patching are planned for Monday.

[Pugnate]

Thank god I didn't get very far or I'd be really upset.

[Xessive]

Man, this game seems like a lot of hard work gone to waste for lack of a little more.

[MysterD]

To Xessive

Man, this game seems like a lot of hard work gone to waste for lack of a little more.

I'm probably gonna wait until it's like $20 and a load of patches are behind it.

I don't pay full-price for Beta-in-a-box.


EDIT, Dec 1st, 2007:
GameOver Review
70% from GameOver

EDIT, Dec 4th, 2007:
1Up Review
4.0 from 1Up in this not-so-nice review.

[MysterD]

SP Patch 0.6 has been released.

Single Player Patch 0.6 - DECEMBER 18, 2007

North America and Europe Only

General
•    Fixed a known issue with the inventory user interface that caused the client to lock up.
•    Fixed a bug which caused the Mini-game to sometimes become stuck.

Graphics
•    Fixed a texture memory leak that occurred when inspecting armor items. This will improve long-term memory usage, especially for players that frequently buy, sell, and analyze items.
•    Overall memory usage improved, especially in Stations. This increases client stability, reducing “memory exhausted” crash issues.

UI
•    Many new UI sounds for better player feedback.
•    New error message/sound when a character attempts to purchase an item without enough gold or room in their inventory.

Skills

Guardians
•    Prayer of Healing cannot be used while poisoned.

Blademasters
•    Surge of Speed effects do not stack with Adrenaline boosts.

Summoners
•    The Summon Reaper cool down is now fixed and independent of other Minions.

Hunters
•    Escape displays its rate of use.

Engineers
•    Drones stats/items now save on logout.
•    Drones now properly receive Armor and Shields when equipped with armor using the Armor Retrofit skill.
•    Improvements to Haste Bot per-level effects.
•    Molotov Assault now has a splash damage component in addition to its field effect.
•    Fixed a bug that caused items equipped on an Engineer Drone to be unequipped when the Engineer summoned the Drone after changing levels.

 
Quests
•    PDA quest item no longer drops to the floor.
•    Fixed various known issues which prevented players from being able to continue interrupted side-quests.
•    Quest items should no longer remain in the player inventory after the associated quest has been completed. Players with old quest items (such as Train Parts) associated with quests they’ve already completed or no longer have should find these items removed.

Items
•    Dual Focus and Dual Melee affixes no longer spawn.
•    Rebalanced Health and Power regeneration affixes.
•    Fixed known bugs that caused players to sometimes lose items.
•    Fixed a bug with the Nanoforge that caused it to inaccurately modify the stats of higher-quality items.
•    Fixed a bug that sometimes caused Unique items to drop without special properties. Old unique items that did not have special properties are not changed by this fix. We are looking into whether we can fix the old items, but we don’t currently have a solution.
•    Items dropped in the world now have slightly lower overall feed requirements.
•    Analyzers now work as expected on stashed items.
•    Random recipes (including those found at Crafters) no longer produce Unique items.

Monsters
•    Addressed numerous sync issues with Ravagers.

Environments
•    More chests have been added to the Underground Cave passage set.

World Movement
•    Fixed known issues which occasionally prevented characters from being able to load or switch instances.
•    Fixed several issues with players getting stuck in the world.
•    Fixed a bug causing some players to become stuck at St. Paul’s in Nightmare difficulty.
•    Fixed a bug that caused players to be randomly teleported under certain circumstances.

MP Patch 0.7 went live

Multiplayer Patch 0.7 - DECEMBER 19, 2007

 

Memory Usage

    * Memory manager rewritten for better performance and stability.
    * Fixed a UI-related memory leak.
    * Fixed a clothing and armor texture-related memory issue.

 

User Interface

    * New Looking For Group interface that allows players to more easily find each other for creating specific groups.
    * Reorganized the De-modificator, Augmentrex, and Nanoforge interfaces to appear in the left-hand panel area.
    * Added an auto-transparency feature to the chat window.
    * Players can skip all logo splash-screens with a single click.

 

Nightmare Difficulty

    * The difficulty of Nightmare has been rebalanced. More overall experience is earned in Nightmare levels, scaling of group experience and difficulty has been improved, and the overall level progression has been adjusted.

 

Skills

    * Fixed skills being added to and/or removed from Shift activation when swapping weapons.
    * Investing a skill point into an Aura skill will no longer automatically cause it to activate.

 

Templar

    * Taunt skills are no longer reduced in effectiveness when in a group.

Blademaster

    * Path of Righteousness now applies damage from offhand melee weapons.

 

Guardian

    * Prayer of Retribution can now be used while poisoned.
    * Prayer of Healing can no longer be used while poisoned.

 

Cabalists

    * The Summon Ember and Summon Fire Elemental skills no longer conflict when granted through items.

 

Evokers

    * Fixed a bug that caused Drain Power to charge an upfront power cost.
    * Tempest’s targeting range has been increased and properly loses targets that move out of range.
    * Fixed a bug which prevented Boneshards from having any effect on every other cast.
    * Fixed a bug which prevented Evokers from using any other skills for two seconds after casting Boneshards.

 

Summoners

    * Hand of Nostrom correctly adds more beams as the skill level increases.
    * Fixed a bug which sometimes caused the Warper minion icon to not display.
    * Master of the Flame skill effects now display properly in the skill description tooltip.

 

Hunters

 

Engineers

    * Engineer Drone behavior improved.
    * Fixed a bug that allowed Repair Drone to be used at no cost.
    * Drones will now level properly along with their owner. Existing Drones that are below your character’s level will automatically be raised to the correct level.
    * Drones now receive correct health bonuses with skill level after they are re-summoned.

 

Marksmen

    * Overshield now gives the correct amount of shields.
    * Fixed a bug that prevented Homing Shot from activating properly.

 

Quests

    * Fixed a bug with the Cannon Street Rails quest.
    * Fixed a bug in the Helping Hands and Triage quests where Maxim and Arphaun occupy the same place.
    * Fixed a bug with the Regular Customer quest where Slaughterbeast occasionally wouldn’t spawn as expected.
    * Characters stuck in the Holborn station after completing the game in normal mode should be able to progress.

 

Items

    * Improved the drop rate of analyzers and various recipes.
    * New blueprints have been added for Focus Items and Boots.
    * Focus Items and Boots can now be made by crafters.
    * Fixed a bug where already activated Auras would turn on and off when swapping weapons that grant Aura skills.

 

Guilds and Groups

    * Fixed a bug where players were not seeing Guild invites.
    * Introduced new Auto-Party logic to provide better matches.

 

World Movement

    * Fixed additional instances where players were sometimes randomly teleported when other people used portals.
    * Players can now use the /stuck command when in Ghost form.
    * Fixed rare instances where certain areas were impassible.

 

Miscellaneous

    * Fixed a bug where Founders saw all character names in blue text.
    * Fixed rare issues with being unable to properly apply the Multiplayer patch.
    * Fixed a bug with mods on weapons not being properly equipped when loading a character.
    * Fixed rare cases where the PRD became unusable.
    * Fixed a bug where numerous pets would show up in Stations.

 

---

 

Special Subscriber Features

The survivors of London are keeping their spirits up by celebrating the season and sharing some Holiday goodies with our subscription members:

 

The Transmogrifier

This mystic box transforms the junk you put in it into something new and wonderful. When you discover a new Transmogrifier formula, it is automatically stored in a special recipe list.

 

12 Unique Items

New Unique weapons spread across all three factions.

 

Patch Notes Disclaimer: While we make every effort to include all upcoming changes in our patch notes, please be aware that occasionally some changes are unintentionally omitted.

[MysterD]

I must say, this must be one of the best packaged Collector's Editions I've ever seen. The case itself is big, beautiful art-work on it, and folds open like a huge-ass book. So, on the inside of the case, the new usual-sized retail DVD-game case on the right-hand side (with the Game Disc and Bonus Disc DVD's inside), all in its own little slot. On the left-side of the case, is your Art Book in its own little case. I can guess that even those who spent full price for this Collector's Ed are wondering why people bought the Regular Edition for not too much less.

I haven't tried the SP yet.
Puggy, is the SP much different from the MP?

I've been playing the MP, basically. It's like Diablo II just went into the sci-way future and into full 3D, but into third-person viewpoint behind the shoulder-view. So, yeah -- it's VERY addictive and a lot of fun to just slay things, to say the very least.

What's funny, is I've been looking around for the in-game advertising that comes w/ this thing. So...Where the hell is it??!!?

About loot -- oh, tons, tons, tons, and more tons. If you're one who likes to go loot crazy, there's plenty to find and do here. You can upgrade it, mod it, break it apart to get parts from it (like Guild Wars), sell it, and do all kinds of other stuff w/ it.

I got most of my settings on Medium on 1024x768. On these settings, it runs like a dream, always above 30 FPS. Graphically, it does look good -- but, nothing spectacular and outstanding in technical direction to really blow you away. At least it runs very well; even w/ a lot of stuff happening on-screen, not much of a drop-off for me, really.

The opening FMV was awesome. I thought, w/ the way it opened and all, that we'd have a lot to care about w/ the game story and whatnot, w/ it introducing characters and the production values and voice-acting that were put into it; it was awesome, to say the least!

Well, after playing hours w/ this game, about the story and about the dialogue -- eh, it seems like it is basically there just to give you quests and stuff; even more so true than Diablo II did. Not much voice-acting it seems, either; most of the dialogue is written like it is in Guild Wars. Though, there is voice-acting -- y'know, like greetings and stuff (like in Morrowind when a character sees you, they say a greeting to you) and maybe for the occassional main quest. Nothing to really write home about on the story-depth, character-depth, and whatnot.

A lot of quests to do, it seems, as the game just seems to keep throwing them at you to take. Though, they usually seem to be "Kill X amount of enemies in this location," "get X amount of special items and bring me these back", or "go kill this big bad-ass boss." Typical RPG-action fanfare.

I'm a Blademaster. Seems, there's a nice amount of skills at your disposal to learn, upgrade, and whatnot. So, yeah -- the skill trees reminds me of games like those found in say Diablo II and Titan Quest.

So, yeah -- if you liked Diablo II, you're gonna' find this to be quite fun, I'd think. I'm quite enjoying this one, to say the least.

[Pugnate]

The opening FMV was quite amazing, I must agree. I actually didn't play past the first impressions.

[MysterD]

The opening FMV was quite amazing, I must agree.

What gets me is the opening FMV is so good w/ everything -- the characters, voice-acting, the dialogue, and everything. It really plunges you into the world and atmosphere instantly, and you begin to care about the characters b/c the presentation is so good. You think the game might actually be this way, as well...

(click to show/hide)

...And they all pretty much all get chopped off in the FMV, but the girl (Jessica).

But then, the game starts and Jessica's much older; and I haven't even seen this girl again (Jessica). I hope I'll run into her, eventually -- b/c she seemed important to the game, especially given the way the FMV treats her.

But, yeah -- so you jump into the game and its like -- "What happened to the dialogue, voice-acting and story?" heh. There hasn't been much added to it, since that FMV, unfortunately...

There's a plot; a thin-one, but it don't have much depth to it. And the NPC's, they really don't have too much personality themselves.

I actually didn't play past the first impressions.

Ah, okay!

EDIT:
Does anyone else around here have this game and play MP???
Would be cool to form a party w/ some people from here.

[Pugnate]

haha right. All the production values went into the FMV. The gameplay feels dry.

People say it is like Diablo, but Diablo wasn't just about hack'n slash. Well it was mostly about that, but it had a great atmosphere as well.

[MysterD]

haha right. All the production values went into the FMV. The gameplay feels dry.

I think the action itself is great -- and it better be, since this is the main force driving this game, since they really didn't do too much w/ the story and all.

I hope there's an expansion pack so that they can really boom us w/ say a better story, character dialogues, and all of that stuff -- b/c at least HG: London has a great foundation, combat-wise. I really do love the combat in this game -- control-wise (WSAD or cursors for controls), it feels like Painkiller turned into an RPG; especially w/ the amount of monsters thrown at you, basically. On the RPG part of things -- of course, it feels like Diablo in 3D and in the future.

People say it is like Diablo, but Diablo wasn't just about hack'n slash. Well it was mostly about that, but it had a great atmosphere as well.

Diablo II's towns, they all had a different feel and look. Act 1's town had one specific look, while Act 2's town has the Egyptian/Middle Eastern vibe going on. So did many of the dungeon areas, as well -- had different window-dressing. Since you were always hacking, it did help you want to see these new areas. This helped kept the redundancy factor down, to an extent.

HG: London's stations/hubs (which are basically towns and meeting places, like say a Guild Wars has so players can meet up and whatnot), so far mostly feel like carbon-copies of one another, but w/ different colors slapped on top of the walls; and w/ different NPC's there, though. Granted, I'm not too far into the game -- I'm on Act 2 now -- but I hope we have sore different looking stations and stuff, as time goes along. I don't expect it, though -- given what I've seen, so far.

HG: London, especially for its main quests, really could benefit from having some good voice-acting; especially if they could've kept those voice-acting production values from the FMV and into the game's main quest. Sure, they could skip giving side quests voice-acting, if they wanted -- but the main stuff should be voice-acted, I think. I say this b/c the main quest always should be felt to be most important; it's supposed to be why you play the game, you know; its supposed to be the most depth-filled and most important part of the game. That's what NWN did -- unique voice-acting for main quest stuff, though the side quests likely would not have voice-acting; and it worked-out quite fine.

Regardless of my complaints, I'm still really enjoying HG: London. It's tons of fun, namely b/c of the combat and the loot (tons of loot, can break them apart, upgrade, modify, etc etc).

[Pugnate]

Yea that's the problem. Just when you were getting tired of the setting in Diablo II, you moved on to something completely different in the next act. HG:L environments start to get boring.

[MysterD]

Yea that's the problem. Just when you were getting tired of the setting in Diablo II, you moved on to something completely different in the next act. HG:L environments start to get boring.

Exactly, Pug.

I mean, HG: London's environment itself is not boring. They're actually quite quirky and cool, w/ it being in a futuristic ravaged London and all...

...But seeing the same cool environments and areas over-and-over which often come off as "cut & pasted" to another location, is like my whole Halo feeling -- "Ummmm...wasn't I just here not too long ago? Can we switch these environments up a little bit even??"

[MysterD]

Damn, I've played this thing a lot today. I'm like Level 11 or so now.

I'd like to say, the mission on the Battlefield where you have to Fortify the defense turrets and help some teammates out....freakin' awesome.

The plot's adding up, but it's still way too thin. I wish it had way more depth...

Oh, and the Techsmith 314 and Lucious characters -- especially when they interact w/ each other -- are hilarious. I wish the other NPC's were as interesting and unique as these two guys are.

EDIT on 12/30/2007:
I got through with what I think is so far, the best quest (it's part of the main quest) and the most unique of environments in the game.

If only the rest of the game was as cool, crazy, and as interesting as this one part.

It's very Psychonauts-like in a sense, BTW....
So, here we go...

The "314" Quest

(click to show/hide)

Techsmith 314 is all over the place when he speaks; he is absolutely insane and goes in and out on conversations, from one tangent to another to another...yeah, well, you get the drift. He's like bipolar, as he'll go from quite normal to freakin' insane at the drop of a dime. So, Lucious keeps talking about how he wants to kick him in the "specials," "kick his ass," etc etc -- throughout the entire game to try and make him "sane again"; heh.

So basically, later on in the Act 2, Lucious wants to unlock some info that he knows is somewhere deep within Techsmith 314's mind, but Tech 314 can't and won't access it. Lucious don't recall what it is; he's crazy, but not like Tech 314. So, he knows the info will help w/ the main quest, since you've already reassembled body parts of a demon back together to try and milk info out of it; but, it was to vague to really tell too much necessary info....heh!

Eventually, after you've done a lot in Act 2 ant exhausted most of the leads, Lucious decides to go to the last resort. He wants you to FINALLY "kick 314's ass." But, no -- not in person. He opens a portal and decides you are to enter Techsmith 314's mind. So, you're walking around inside what would be a person's insides, fighting basically brains and brain cells. It's a huge labyrinth, too.

Eventually, when you come to the end of level that leads you to the man's "Imagination", you have to fight this HUGE Psyche of 314, which looks like a HUGE version of him that keeps creating nasty monsters to fight you. Once you defeat The Psyche of 314, he breaks into three smaller pieces that are three smaller versions of him. They are basically 314's Id, Ego, and Super-Ego.

After that battle, then you can talk to a memory of his dad, who has some of the info you need to get further into the story.

So far, best level and battle in the game. Absolutely freakin' awesome!

[Pugnate]

If anyone is interested, you can get the EA download version on eBay for around $20.

[MysterD]

$20 for a download version? Hmmm.....I wonder if the SP needs you to connect to the Net to play. If not, that's great.
 
You know the MP will need you to, which is fine -- it's MP and ties the game itself to your account. 


I'll be honest -- I really like Hellgate.

I mean, I've already made my way through Act 3 now; barely had it a week. Can't stop playing it.

I just keep taking on more quests than you can wiggle a stick at. The game doesn't seem like it will run out, either -- are some of the side quests randomly generated or something???

And yet, still w/ all of the few repetitive-looking environments used over and over, lack of voice-acting for the main quest, a lack of story depth, a variety of quest-types, and some lack of actual character/personality, I still can't put this goddamn game down...

...I really tell you -- it's the damn action, the amount of skills, numerous different types of enemies/bosses, and the ridiculous unique loot quantities that keep me going, to the point I'm often unable to put it down. I'm pulling apart loot for parts, upgrading loot, selling loot all the time, etc etc. And I'm always looking forward to seeing the next piece of loot and what I'll do w/ it.

Overall, this game is a flawed gem.

I'd love to see an expansion to this; namely to add more different kind of environments to the game, add more character to the actual NPC's, and more story to this one.

[MysterD]

I'm gonna speak on the Bonus DVD.
Namely, in regards to the soundtrack.

Yeah, so the disc itself tells you to copy the files over to your PC, if you like.
Yeah, and they are all WAV format, too.
And they are just numbered and partially titled, too.

Why didn't they just press another CD disc w/ the soundtrack and its track listing??

Kinda' lazy.

But, yeah -- I found on their message boards the track listing and stuff...

EDIT:
Sonic Mayhem did the soundtrack for HG: London, BTW.

Worth noting -- they did the music for Quake 2, Dark Messiah, God of War 2, Stranglehold, and SC: DA.

[Quemaqua]

Huh... I didn't know they were still around.  I rather enjoyed the Q2 soundtrack when it was current.  I thought they did something for Q3 as well, though.  Might have just been music "inspired by".  I remember one track that was just pure awesome.

EDIT - You can thank me later.