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Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: ScaryTooth on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 07:29:29 PM

Title: FFXII?
Post by: ScaryTooth on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 07:29:29 PM
Yay, or Nay?
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: scottws on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 07:44:09 PM
Nay, but I hate RPGs.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 08:11:14 PM
The IGN Review (http://ps2.ign.com/articles/741/741991p1.html) likes it. It's being described as "the PS2's best RPG of the year!" And most people's reactions are that it was totally worth the wait.

I love the FF series, though I haven't played FFX or FFX-2. The most recent one I played was FFIX, and I didn't even finish it. For some reason the game hangs during one of the FMV's, and I didn't bother to get a new copy.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: iPPi on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 08:19:57 PM
I've only played FF VIII, so I don't really care for the FF series.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: ScaryTooth on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 08:44:32 PM
I think Gamespot's review comes up tomorrow. So far, it's looking like I have to pick it up.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 09:46:42 PM
VIII is one of the worst, JB.  That was a poor choice.

But yeah... I don't really care.  It could be the grandest thing ever and I probably still wouldn't.  I'm just sorta' sick of FF stereotypes.  This one might not be as bad, but from what I've seen it looks too same-ish.  I dunno'.  I'm just tired of a lot of the shit they try to do.  I know Julia is curious about it, but she definitely doesn't want to pick it up at launch.  She figures she might get it after it hits Greatest Hits price, but she's a bit sick of FF at the moment as well.  She played X, X2, and then maybe half or two thirds of 6.  The only one she really wants to try now is VII, but she's too busy with Disgaea at the moment to care about much else.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 10:03:07 PM
I enjoy a good Final Fantasy game. I just dont like the branching off sequels or a stupid online RPG. I want a fresh new one that contains a new universe and characters because they create some epic and beautiful shit. So yea, I've been waiting for a new genuine Final Fantasy for some time.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Ghandi on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 10:06:32 PM
I remember playing IX and liking it a lot. Actually, one of my first sig's was Vivi from that game. I doubt that I will pick up this one, though. No interest, plus I don't have the money for it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 10:32:23 PM
The last one I enjoyed was FFX, I might play this, but not buy it unless I end up liking it.  I think my brother is getting it so I might give it a shot once he is done with it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: sirean_syan on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 11:30:23 PM
You know a week ago I would have said I'm curious about the game, but didn't intend to pick it up.

Funny thing, about two hours before this thread started I just thought about the game and decided to preorder it for no good reason. I have no idea when I'll actually play it, but it'll be here sometime in the beginning of November (cheap ass shipping).

So yeah, I'm interested. I've pretty much enjoyed each FF I've palyed a great deal outside of FFIX, FFVI is easily one of my favorite games out there and FFVII really is something special in our little gaming world. I imagine it's hard not to get caught up in the release of a real Final Fantasy game (FFXII doesn't count) even if you're an anti-fan of the series. Then you get more stuff to bitch about and that's fun in it's own way.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, October 29, 2006, 11:46:38 PM
Heh, you make a good point.  That said, I did love VII.  I've been sad each time something kept me from finishing it.  I need to get it on fucking PS instead of this crap PC port.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, October 30, 2006, 02:21:43 AM
...How could you not like IX?  IX and VI were easily the best.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Xessive on Monday, October 30, 2006, 03:06:56 AM
Oooh Now I'm really anxious about the possibility of a FFVII Remake for the PS3!
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: MysterD on Monday, October 30, 2006, 02:34:38 PM
The last FF I owned, back in the PSX days, was FF9. Good, but not great. By that time, I was tired of the same FF formula, not breaking much new ground.

I did play a demo of it FF12 at a GameStop store, a bit back -- and I was *not* impressed w/ the demo. Demo's often don't tell you enough, though....I did like the change in the battle system, though. Thank God for no more random battles.

I did know that the gameworld itself got a little more open w/ FFX-2 from what I heard, which is a good thing...

So, here's the usual MyD questions coming, since I don't feel like reading the review and since I wanna hear people's opinions....

Are there a good amounts of side-quests?

Any multiple endings to the game?

What about multiple endings to certain quests?

Some non-linearity??? None??? A little?!?!?!?

Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: scottws on Monday, October 30, 2006, 04:02:49 PM
The only FF I played was FFX.  Hated it with a passion.  Most other games I buy that aren't that great I just tell myself, "Well this kind of sucks, but I paid good money for it, might as well get my money's worth."  FFX I played for about 3 hours and never again.  Hate it, hate it, hate it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: sirean_syan on Monday, October 30, 2006, 05:30:10 PM
Face it D. Final Fantasies are not made with you in mind... at all. For me, the best way to think of them are adventure games with a battle system. Really, that's all they are.

I don't know what it was about FF IX that didn't do it for me. I went through all of disc one and part of disc two, but something just never clicked. I'm inclined to say it was the characters since I never really made any sort of a connection (even annoyence) with any of them. As a result, I couldn't tell you the names of any of them except Vivi and the only reason I know him is because he's the freaking Black Mage.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Xessive on Monday, October 30, 2006, 05:49:22 PM
From what I can remember I liked FFIX more than FFVIII. Even though I could appreciate and relate to the romantic qualities of FFVIII, I didn't want a whole game centred around that theme. FFVIII is basically the 'chick flick' of RPG's.

I was really starting to enjoy FFIX, until it just kept hanging.. It was pretty cool how they brought back the classic combat style. I have to agree, the game didn't seem quite as memorable as FFVII or any others.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: MysterD on Monday, October 30, 2006, 06:00:19 PM
Face it D. Final Fantasies are not made with you in mind... at all. For me, the best way to think of them are adventure games with a battle system. Really, that's all they are.

I don't know what it was about FF IX that didn't do it for me. I went through all of disc one and part of disc two, but something just never clicked. I'm inclined to say it was the characters since I never really made any sort of a connection (even annoyence) with any of them. As a result, I couldn't tell you the names of any of them except Vivi and the only reason I know him is because he's the freaking Black Mage.

Yuh, I even have that Vivi plush doll for signing up ASAP when they began that PlayOnline thing.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: ScaryTooth on Monday, October 30, 2006, 06:31:34 PM
Well, I ordered it. It has USA value shipping or whatever from ebgames.com. So, it'll be here someday. 
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, October 31, 2006, 08:29:32 PM
9.0 from Gamespot.  I haven't read the review but if I still have my ps2 after I finish Okami and Xenosaga 1-3, I'll probably get this....hopefully as a greatest hit by then.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Tuesday, October 31, 2006, 08:44:03 PM
9.0 from Gamespot.  I haven't read the review but if I still have my ps2 after I finish Okami and Xenosaga 1-3, I'll probably get this....hopefully as a greatest hit by then.

Hmm I read the review on Gamespot and it has me a little more interested in the game than before,  I got a few other games I want to play first though before I dive into it, namely Okami(which I still need to get) and Guitar Hero 2.  Also I don't want to derail the thread but have you started any of the Xenosaga games yet GPW?
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, October 31, 2006, 09:36:33 PM
Yeah, I'm a bit into Episode I, but can't really trust the timer to tell me how far since I've left it on and stopped playing a bunch of times.  If I was to guess, I'd say maybe 6-9 hours in.  I like it but at the same time am a bit let down.  The story seems cool, but the combat system isn't really all that great in my opinion.  I guess I just expected a bit more since the Xenogears system was just awesome.  There also seems to be too many moments where I'm just running around ships and complexes for no real reason.

I bought Ep. I and II off ebay for like $40, but also bought Okami while waiting for them to arrive so I've been having a bit of trouble really getting into it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: ScaryTooth on Wednesday, November 01, 2006, 10:15:29 PM
My game came earlier today. I'm not going to get around to it tonight. I'm about dead as it is. But I'm off tomrrow. I'm going to check it out. I'm a little worried about the battle system. I really like the traditional turn based FF. And I hated the demo of this game that came with DQ8 honestly. We'll see I guess.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, November 01, 2006, 10:19:48 PM
Yeah, I've heard little bits and pieces of the battle system from different places and have no idea what the hell it's all about.  You only really control one character, but the others follow macros you've created or something right?
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: ScaryTooth on Wednesday, November 01, 2006, 10:21:28 PM
I think you can switch between the characters. And you can have macros set up for other ones. Something like that.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, November 01, 2006, 10:33:47 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought.  Kind of like how Star Ocean 2 did it, but where you actually set the macros (well, set more detailed macros) and it's turned based.  I don't know.  I could see it being cool or really really tedious.

Edit: I just watched the video review.  They just had to mention Vagrant Story and I was sold.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: ScaryTooth on Thursday, November 02, 2006, 08:03:12 PM
It's good so far. It starts off a little slow, but after you get past the first 3 hours or so, it gets much more interesting. It's seems like it's going to be great. Don't think it can equal 10 or anything, but it's good.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: ScaryTooth on Sunday, November 05, 2006, 12:56:23 AM
So, I'm into it. The battle system took a few hours for me to get used to, but now I really like it. I think I still like the traditional turn based system better, but this one is pretty good. The game starts off a little slow, it started really pulling me in at about hour 5 or so. I'm really enjoying it. There is a good degree of customization to characters that you can mess with. Like, I'm making Vaan, a sword wielding mage type character. I'm making Fran a cleric type character. I'm making another guy whom I won't name because of spoilers a paladin kind of guy. The gambit system is really nice too. I was getting my ass handed to me for a while, and I couldn't figure out why. It was starting to get frustrating. Then I adjusted some gambits. Had Fran be my main healer, and adjusted her gambits as such, and the game got easier, and more fun. So it works really well. It's very customizable.

The only thing is, it doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game. I mean, it does, but it doesn't. It's hard to explain. But it's totally worth checking out for those of you who were on the fence about it. It's a great game thus far.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, November 05, 2006, 04:58:22 PM
The only thing is, it doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game. I mean, it does, but it doesn't. It's hard to explain. But it's totally worth checking out for those of you who were on the fence about it. It's a great game thus far.

It's been 5 years since FFX, the last true new SP FF game.

Maybe the reason it feels like it's a FF but isn't an FF is b/c they made some evolutionary changes to the series, such as the removal of random battles, to begin w/? ???

That kind of is the impression I'm getting from reviews and all....
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, November 05, 2006, 11:32:08 PM
I always enjoyed watching my friends play the FF games, but Japanese RPGs don't hold a candle to American ones.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, November 07, 2006, 10:20:33 PM
My roommate bought this today.  I haven't played it at all, but it looks really cool.  I still probably won't play it for months.  Too much school/new girlfriend/xenosaga/okami.  But work slows down a bit in the winter so who knows. 

I did really notice a lot of FFT and especially Vagrant Story related art, sounds, atmosphere, and the like though...and that definitly has me pumped.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, November 26, 2006, 01:19:31 PM
Okay, so it looks like I decided on how to stave off WoW -- buy FFXII.  Shit.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, November 26, 2006, 11:23:53 PM
So I'm super into this.  It wasn't something I was caring about until I checked out some more recent press and footage, but it's really filling the bill for me right now.  I didn't realize quite how drastic some of the design changes were, but I think they're *all* for the better.  Thus far I'm just loving it.  About 6 hours in or so now, maybe a little more.  The gambit stuff is just awesome, and it totally doesn't get in your way or make you trip over yourself.  I think it's all brilliant.  The story seems fairly of a fairly basic political nature so far, but the characters are interesting and most of the writing is fantastic.  Even just in the menus and stuff, this is writing of a caliber never before seen in an FF game.  Most other recent entries have only been a few steps above lousy, even, in a lot of regards, so this is a huge step up.

Overall, I'm deeply impressed.

Though I'm a bit stunned at how last-gen the graphics are.  I realize there's an obvious gulf between the graphics on the 360 and the PS2, but I guess I hadn't realized just how big that gulf has now grown.  FFXII is a very pretty game and the art direction is absolutely fan-fucking-tastic, but it's sometimes painfully obvious that it's a PS2 game.

Still, no complaints from me at all.  So far I can officially say that I've never enjoyed an FF game as much as I'm enjoying XII.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, November 27, 2006, 09:01:10 PM
Scary, you stop playing this or are you still at it?  I guess with your Wii you're probably playing Zelda and stuff.

Anyway, I further his last statement about those being on the fence to give it a shot.  This is easily the best FF game I've ever played from any number of standpoints.  I'm having a ball.  Great music, great art design, great characters, cool universe, big world, tons to do, lots of fun and engaging twists to the standard formula... it's awesome!
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 11:24:16 PM
Find it really hard to believe how little interest there seems to be in this game.  The more I play, the more I love it.  Continues to be far and away my favorite FF ever.  Plot doesn't necessarily seem the best of all the games, but it's pretty interesting so far.  Plenty of intrigue and fun war/political stuff, and the characters themselves feel a lot more like actual characters to me than any other FF game I've played.  Even 10... everyone seemed too much like a caricature.  Despite some of the distinct personalities and more outlandish design elements in 12, all the characters seem a whole lot more grounded and real.

Anyway... it's sad that I'm like the only person here playing this since Scary seems to have gone off on Zelda and abandoned it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 11:26:01 PM
Find it really hard to believe how little interest there seems to be in this game.  The more I play, the more I love it.  Continues to be far and away my favorite FF ever.  Plot doesn't necessarily seem the best of all the games, but it's pretty interesting so far.  Plenty of intrigue and fun war/political stuff, and the characters themselves feel a lot more like actual characters to me than any other FF game I've played.  Even 10... everyone seemed too much like a caricature.  Despite some of the distinct personalities and more outlandish design elements in 12, all the characters seem a whole lot more grounded and real.

Anyway... it's sad that I'm like the only person here playing this since Scary seems to have gone off on Zelda and abandoned it.

I hope to be enjoying it soon too, I'm hoping to buy it in the next week or so.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 11:51:14 PM
A word about the Collector's Edition for those interested -- it's not bad.  Comes with a DVD and tin case.  Case is slick, DVD has a pretty extensive bunch of interviews with people and some artwork and that kind of thing.  There's also a historical featurette on the franchise which just goes over the previous games and what they did to change the systems in each new installment, etc.  It was actually pretty cool.  I wasn't expecting too much and ended up pleased.  Not the most amazing thing ever, and a little dry (okay, very dry) in terms of presentation, but there was a good bit of content.  I was a bit less pleased with the art book included with the Brady Games limited edition guide (I was hugely pleased with the one that came with the BG Gears of War LE guide, however) just because they didn't include any text from people who worked on the project and such.  The art itself was nice, though.  Showed off some of the designs nicely and stuph.  Julia and I like to have guides around for FF games because so much of the stuff is impossible to find on your own, and while she's cool with using GameFAQs, a nice guide is a decent gift because they're fun to look at.  I don't use them too much, but thought this one would be good to get because I liked the art so much.  So it's a nice art book included with it, just not as nice as the great one they did for Gears of War.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, November 30, 2006, 12:11:13 AM
How was it reviewed?
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, November 30, 2006, 07:50:13 AM
Favorably.

9.0 from GSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/finalfantasy12/review.html).
9.5 from IGN (http://ps2.ign.com/articles/741/741992p1.html).
Average of 93% at GameRankings (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/459841.asp).

What upsets me most is what some of the people are complaining about.  I have *never* been an FF fanboy, and I'm still not.  I think the series often gets far more credit than it's actually due, and I think there have been significant problems with the design pretty much since the beginning.  That doesn't mean I think the games are bad, because I don't -- I've enjoyed a good many of them now -- but I've always been something of a critic.

But I swear, people will complain about fucking *anything*.  Everyone says the game starts off slow and I just don't see it.  It's got probably the biggest and most holy-cow opening movie ever, gives you an introductory sequence that's crazy and action-packed, then it throws you into the middle of a huge city with tons to see and do, let's you run around and see everything, let's you run around and talk to everyone, and sends you off fighting things and making money.  A few hours in you get a lot of your characters, learn about the gambit system, and are generally off and running.  I don't see the validity of the complaint at all, yet everyone seems to be making it.  I mean, FFVII felt so much slower to start for me.  I love that game, but the beginning I find agonizing.

Also, the soundtrack.  I'm so fucking sick of Uematsu fanboys.  Yes, he did some great work, but that doesn't mean there isn't anyone else out there capable of writing good music!  Hitoshi Sakamoto did Final Fantasy Tactics well, and this game is set in the same universe, so it makes sense for him to make another appearance.  And considering they asked him to compose the ridiculous amount of music that they did (there's over 4 hours on the soundtrack), I'd say he did an awesome job.  People keep saying it's too big, too epic, but that seems such a hypocritical complaint coming from most of these people.  Regardless, I've been listening to the soundtrack at work and I think it's beautiful.  It could be somewhat more tightly-knit and unique, but that's because of the sheer volume the guy had to compose.  I think he really did a fantastic job and am enjoying the soundtrack immensely.  It's very much akin to Shimomura's work on Legend of Mana.

Anyway... heh.  For some reason that stuff is bugging me.  I guess it's the same thing that bugged me with RE4 -- some fanboys refused to acknowledge that it was better than previous entries because they were so stuck on the rotten and boring gameplay of the originals.  But in this case, at least, it's only a few minor niggles about music and presentation.  Most people, thankfully, aren't complaining too much about the game systems.  The new battle system seems to be a winner with most people, so that's a good thing.  I was expecting a lot more backlash about it to be honest, but it fixes so much about what brought the other games down.  Keeps the pace up, keeps the world consistent, feels simultaneously more chaotic and more tangible.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: sirean_syan on Thursday, November 30, 2006, 09:57:46 PM
Wait? People actually complain that a Final Fantasy is too big and too epic?

Wow.

Edit: I should add more to the conversation. I really want to get into the game, but right now Zelda takes what attention I can give it... which isn't much. I've barely had time to do much this week since I got the Wii and just barely got my apartment in a state suitable for games. So yeah, I suck.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Thursday, November 30, 2006, 11:03:05 PM
Well I got it tonight, I'm going to give it a good chunk of playtime before I post impressions though.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, November 30, 2006, 11:43:36 PM
Sy, I said they think the *soundtrack* is too big and epic, not the game itself.  Although a lot of people are whining about there not being card games and minigames and stuff.  That's actually a somewhat valid complaint, though there's still tons of side quest type stuph to do.  It's just that a good chunk of it is combat oriented.  Fortunately it works well because the combat system is so damned good.  Fights are actually really fun now!  Imagine that.  The whole "quickening" thing is a bit odd, and I'm not sure if I entirely like it (it's fun in concept, but it feels a bit disconnected), but on the whole I find the combat 100% more interesting than I did in any of the other games.

And yes, Sy, you suck.  Hurry up and stop sucking.

Would be interested to hear what you think, Tet, since I feel rather lonely playing this game all by my lonesome.  Julia really wants to dive in but she's got other stuff she's playing now.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, December 01, 2006, 12:03:35 AM
Theres usual a primary minigame in FF games, but they are usually hit or miss, or you love it or hate it. I'm kinda glad they decided to skip out on it cause it can muck things up in the end like it did with FFVIII. The blitz ball game in X wasnt bad but luckily you can almost totally avoid it without it holding you back. Either way, I never cared for those anyway.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: sirean_syan on Friday, December 01, 2006, 12:25:13 AM
Oh. Heh.... who would complain about an epic soundtrack?

But yeah, there was also that one card game in, I think, FFVIII. That damned thing never made a lick of a sense.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, December 01, 2006, 12:27:26 AM
I actually liked that one.  It was a bit tough, but it was cool.

Anyway, I listened to the soundtrack through again today at work with a mind to see what people didn't like, to really pick at it... and I came up empty.  I friggin' love the thing.  No idea what the hell people want, and the idiots at IGN that gave it a 7.5 and said the US release (which was trimmed from 4 CDs with like 30 tracks each to 1 30-track CD) was the better option.  Ridiculous.  I think people have just finally up and lost it.  To hell with 'em.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Friday, December 01, 2006, 02:50:43 AM
I got about 3 hours in tonight (I just got the Sunstone from that kid) and I'm liking it so far, not really enough to make a more detailed review but a good start, I'm digging the battling.  The music is awesome so far, I kind of did a little "Hell yeah!" in my mind when they started playing "Prologue" on the startup screen with the main logo.  I will definitely have to get that soundtrack sometime and give it a listen to.

Also I liked the card game in FFVIII, it was called Triple Triad for those of you who can't remember, the rules were a bit complex at first but once you got them it was a lot of fun.  I actually own the entire physical card set(well almost all of it sans 10 or so cards) and I used to play with friends every now and then.  The worst minigame was the mucked up card game they had in FFIX.  Blitzball in FFX was kinda cool but got old kinda fast.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, December 01, 2006, 08:45:14 AM
I'm now about 23 hours in, spent the last 2 1/2 or 3 nights just doing side quests and trying to make money.  The chain system is weird, but I actually rather like it.  Hard to keep going when you're exploring areas for the first time, but once you know the lay of the land its easy to go back and spend an hour chaining enemies until you've got a bunch of loot to sell, especially after you get the forgotten grimoires.  So I've just been doing elite hunts and chaining for loot last few nights -- but again, the combat is so much fun that it doesn't feel anywhere near as dragging as if often did for me in previous titles.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 03, 2006, 12:33:54 AM
I'm somewhere around 30 hours now, and I just can't get enough of this game.  Stopping playing in order to come online and actually connect with the world at large is excruciatingly difficult.  Don't know what it is, but this thing just hits all the right buttons for me.  I just fucking love it.  Just got to Raithwall's Tomb (not really a spoiler), and just... ugh.  So hard to not play it now.  I had to promise myself I'd play tomorrow even though I have tons of crap to do.

Anyway... yay.  I think you really have to appreciate a lot of the little details in order to see exactly how much went into it.  Reading all the monster journal entries and getting their associated little tip/backstory/extra fun things (which you can unlock by killing certain numbers of enemies) really shows how good the writing is on a fundamental level.  The localization is just superb.  These guys really, really knew what they were doing and put their heart into it.  Everything feels so authentic and intelligent... good stuff.  It really keeps me glued with little rewards like that in the design, and they push me through the few moments of monotony when I have to run around a little more than I'd like or what have you.

The leveling system and such have continued to impress me as well.  There are so many options for customizing your characters, and I keep seeing a million other ways I could have built most of these guys.  And it works so well in concert with the battle system and gambit system, because you can really focus on different things actively.  Like set all your guys to do damage and then take on the role of healer and spend your time healing while they fight automatically.  Or set up your healers and spend your time focusing on how to attack a more complicated foe with really specific weaknesses.  Or fight a big group of guys and have all your characters fighting/healing/supporting on their own, issuing specific commands when their gambits just can't quite get specific enough for the situation.  It all just works so well and adds so much variety to the gameplay.

I haven't felt like this much of a fanboy over a game since Okami, which admittedly wasn't that long ago... but I haven't felt like this much of a fanboy over a console RPG since the SNES days.  And that's saying one hell of a lot.

The art continues to impress as well.  It doesn't peter out or get monotonous.  So many new things to see, and all of them end up having a ton of their own unique personality while keeping in line with the themes the game wants to develop.  The art design is just incredible.  The game is damned pretty, even where the technical stuff can't keep up with current-gen technology.

And yes, I still think the music is perfect and have no idea what the Uematsu fanboys are on about.  Ignorant fuckers.  I ordered the limited edition soundtrack which has *all* the music, not the crappy US release with the single CD.  I consider it $42 well spent.

Anyway... still loving it, still hope some more of you give it a shot.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: wizall on Wednesday, December 06, 2006, 12:41:25 PM
Glad you're liking it, Que.  This will be the first game I get in a couple months.  (I just got back from a month-long trip to Thailand--more on that later. :) )  I enjoyed the demo with DQ8 quite a bit, despite its style differences from the previous FFs (which I also happen to enjoy, generally).  I look forward to getting lost in this. 
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Wednesday, December 06, 2006, 02:03:05 PM
I guess I should post my progress.  I am about 16 hours in and I'm at the Sandsea part (just got through that oil tanker area with all the desert guys).  I am liking this game a lot, the battling and leveling are a lot more fun.  The fighting keeps you on your toes more.  I've only died at a boss once but it was because I was still getting used to using the Gambit system which I seem to have gotten the hang of now.  Once I figured out how to get Quickenings and use them, I made short work of the next boss.  I am probably going to do a bit more leveling before I go into Raithwall's Tomb, which isn't bad because the fighting is fun.

The art design is so awesome in this game so far, its enough for eye candy but it doesn't go overboard and has a more realistic feel to it than some of the other games, the airships especially.  My only complaint about the art and its just a personal one, is Vaan's outfit, its retarded looking, mainly the vest thing he wears, but that is the only character design I have a problem with.  The music is really cool so far and I need to get the soundtrack.  I was really skeptic about this game from just seeing a few screenshots as it was being made and was thinking Square was going to fuck up another FF game, but they are doing a damn fine job so far.  I hope FFXIII is just as good.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, December 06, 2006, 08:49:41 PM
This game is another great example of fake places that really grow to mean a lot to me. (http://www.overwritten.net/forum/index.php?topic=963.0)
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 09, 2006, 01:14:03 AM
So the systems keep getting deeper, the gambits keep getting more numerous and complicated, and the marks are starting to get a lot harder.  The Ring Wyrm totally handed my ass to me, though I'm just about take down the Gil Snapper.  Almost had the bastard the last time and I didn't even have a way to dispel its protect and shell... so I decided to go get a few obvious spells I'd neglected to buy due to lack of funds, and I'll kick its ass this time.  But the game's marks can get really challenging.  I read a few crazy stories about various things, and the last elite mark that Montblanc will give you (not really a spoiler, but a spoiler if you want to be surprised at the last mark's gimmick) ...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Saturday, December 09, 2006, 03:03:56 AM
So the systems keep getting deeper, the gambits keep getting more numerous and complicated, and the marks are starting to get a lot harder.  The Ring Wyrm totally handed my ass to me, though I'm just about take down the Gil Snapper.  Almost had the bastard the last time and I didn't even have a way to dispel its protect and shell... so I decided to go get a few obvious spells I'd neglected to buy due to lack of funds, and I'll kick its ass this time.  But the game's marks can get really challenging.  I read a few crazy stories about various things, and the last elite mark that Montblanc will give you (not really a spoiler, but a spoiler if you want to be surprised at the last mark's gimmick) ...

(click to show/hide)

The Ring Wyrm just recently kicked my ass too, I went for the Gil Snapper and got him down to about 1/4 health but got killed, so I'm just going to go back later.  I could probably do the Gil Snapper now that I've leveled up some more and everyone has all of their Quickenings now though.  Something I've noticed, money is a lot harder to come by in this game than any of the other FF games, you have to actually work for it.  Took me a good chunk of time to save up for those Forgotten Grimoire books but damn are they worth it.  I also found a couple of nice equips by chance from doing some exploring, I got Vaan using a sword that has like 90 atk power that I stole from a monster.  In the Tomb of Raithwall I found a sword that respawns in a chest(not 100% of the time, like 15-25% of the time) that has like 50 atk power and they sell for like 3500 gil each, so I grabbed about 4 of those and sold them.  I just got to the village in Gilmore Jungle and I'm about 31 hours in.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 09, 2006, 11:28:50 AM
You're catching up to me fast.  I'm only a tiny a bit beyond where you are, but not by much.  I realized from looking at a guide that Dispel isn't available yet, so I may wait until I can purchase that before attempting the Gil Snapper again.  But I'm an impatient bastard, and I *almost* killed him last time, so I may just level a few times and try again.  I know I need to get an accessory to protect myself from the Disablega that he casts since I can't seem to keep him Silenced.  The bastard.  Then again, the chick I have doing Silence might just not have enough magical oomph at this point.  I've been building her as a hybrid support mage/warrior, so I don't think I've purchased enough magic potency increases on the license board yet.  I just got my attack magic chick and my healer fitted with some green magic too, though, so hopefully one of them will be able to keep the thing Silenced while somebody keeps my tanks Protected.

What level are you generally, Tet?  I'm about 23... about 37 hours in.  I've gotten either 3 or 4 grimoires now, too, though I didn't think to keep checking that one chest for the sword.  I'm still using it with one character, but it would have been awesome to sell a few extras.  You're right, money is something of an issue.  I'm pretty much always out and never seem to have enough in one go to buy all the gear I really need.  Plus, like an idiot, I sold the Windbreakers I was using, not realizing the damned things protect against Wind magic.  So I've gotta' go get licenses for everybody and purchase those again in case I run against some horrible Wind monster down the line.  I have a bad habit of selling off *everything*, whereas Julia always hordes everything... so she's always got what she needs even if she doesn't have as much cash, whereas I've always got the "best" gear but never the stuff I tend to need for a specific situation.  I'm really bad about using beneficial spells on my party, too, so it's awesome that I can set gambits for them now... forces me to be smart by programming them to be smart for me!
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Saturday, December 09, 2006, 12:09:07 PM
Vaan is level 31 and the rest of my guys are level 25.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 09, 2006, 03:34:56 PM
Jeez.  How the hell are you way above me already and like 7 hours under me?  That's bullshit!  I probably spent a lot more time wandering around town and stuff... plus I've done some side missions that don't involve fighting, looked for some secrets, ferried items between some different people... I guess maybe I did more of that than I thought.

Anyway, got my limited edition import soundtrack today, and it's a gorgeous set. Nice box with pretty art, more of the art in the nice thick paper booklet inside (which I can't read -- too bad, too, looks like there's some fun stuff in it), and more nice art on the big cardboard insert that pulls out and contains the CDs (which feature the various characters).  It's really quite nice and well worth having if you dig the music.  I've literally been listening to the disk of MP3s I downloaded for about a week and a half or something at work now, and I'm only just now getting to the point where I think I'll stop.  Oh, and because I didn't mention it before, the song all the fucking Uematsu fanboys were hailing as the best song on the soundtrack is probably the worst.  Angela Aki sings, and it's perfectly fine for typical pop shit, but it's completely typical.  There's nothing unique or interesting about it whatsoever.  I fucking hate fanboys, especially those idiots at IGN, and anybody that claims this soundtrack is anything less than fantastic should be shot in the face.  There are a few tracks I like less (and the final disk of the 4-disk set has a bit too much in the way of battle music and epic stuff), but overall it's just fantastic considering the amount of music they expected this guy to compose.  Sakamoto has good reason to be proud of himself for this and people shouldn't be telling him otherwise.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 09, 2006, 04:14:33 PM
Haha... this is too funny.  At first I thought it would be lame, but then I cracked up. (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/30736144/?qo=60&q=final+fantasy+xii&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5)

Along those same lines, I wanted to mention that I don't actually hate Vaan.  He's actually a pretty likable character and doesn't seem nearly as bad in the game as he did beforehand.  I have no issues with him other than Tet's aforementioned issues with his outfit.  Plus it looks like his abs are made of leather, I don't understand that one either.  Some of the muscletone was just really strangely portrayed in this game.  It isn't noticeable most of the time on anyone other than Vaan, but you can sometimes tell that it looks funny in other places as well.  It's an odd thing.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Saturday, December 09, 2006, 10:48:28 PM
I have no clue how I'm so close to you story and time wise but higher level, maybe I found a sweet spot for leveling?  I leveled a lot at the Sandsea and chained all of those desert guys like crazy, I also did a good chunk of leveling at Raithwall's Tomb and the beginning part of the jungle, both the jungle and the Sandsea I had a guest character, so maybe that contributed to faster leveling(killing the enemies faster) even with the tiny exp drop from having the guest.  Also ever since I got that wicked sword from that enemy I've been taking down guys pretty quick, sometimes in one hit.  I've done a few sidequests as well and my hunter rank is Headhunter.  I downloaded the soundtrack and I like it a lot and will probably buy that limited edition soundtrack sometime down the line.  Anyways, its time to play some more!
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 10, 2006, 12:04:07 AM
Yeah, that sword sounds kick ass.  Highest attack rating I think I have is like 67 right now, and that's with a hammer (sometimes does around 1400 damage in one swing).  And the place I did the most leveling was the Lhusu Mines, and I didn't have a guest character then, no, so I suppose that could be part of the difference.  I was using guest characters to help with hunts before, and that doesn't net one XP (just LP, maybe).  But I've been spending some good time at the Jungle now because of those panther things.  Man, you can get skins off them like crazy and the things sell for nearly 500 bucks a pop.  Get 20 of those babies and head back to a shop and you're golden.

So I *almost* beat the fucking turtle again another 2 times and still can't do it.  I'm missing Larsa now and so even though I can get really, really close, I just can't quite make it.  It's just impossible without a perfect run or the ability to dispel its protect+haste combo.  I got my main mage to silence it okay, but that doesn't avoid the physical damage, and toward the end I just can't keep up.  I think his armor rating must increase toward the end, because my hits stop doing much, and even a high-end quickening chain just doesn't do enough damage at all.  Belias is utterly useless.  His final attack got me like 500 points of damage or something idiotic like that.  So yeah... without dispel, things have to go just perfectly in order to win.  Actually, I *did* win.  I fucking killed the thing.  I threw a knot of rust at it as a last-ditch effort to take it down, and it killed it... but only after it had already killed my last character standing.  Had I thrown the knot like 2 seconds earlier I'd have won.  Weak.

Anyway... the story is just great.  The last few sequences have been much more interesting than the earlier stuff, and as much as I liked the characters before, I'm starting to like them all a lot more now.  And the script is really well written for the most part... so even the cheesy stuff doesn't sound too cheesy, and there aren't as many stilted lines as there were in X.

Oh, and does anybody agree with me that Fran's voice actress is like the best thing ever?  I absolutely love her voice.  I could sit and listen to her talk all day long.  It completely makes the character, it's amazing.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Sunday, December 10, 2006, 02:15:56 AM
Oh, and does anybody agree with me that Fran's voice actress is like the best thing ever?  I absolutely love her voice.  I could sit and listen to her talk all day long.  It completely makes the character, it's amazing.

Yes!  I was talking about to 2 other guys at work the other night who are playing it now and they thought it unusual that I liked her voice so much, but I basically said the same thing to them about how it really makes her more of a character, whoever did her voice did a hell of a job.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 10, 2006, 09:44:30 PM
This is the best fucking game ever.  I can't stop.

Managed to kill off two more marks last night... Ishtax or something, and the feral retriever... then got the Gil Snapper today after getting the second story Esper.  I tried to get the first optional Esper I've come across, but I noticed that I was going to die instantly when he summoned a MOB that was level 45.  And then summoned another 10 of them.  Whoops.

Now I'm back to hunting marks in hopes of finding a few of the other optional Espers.  I think the lowest level one is 39, so that's still a good 10 levels above me.  Might have to wait on that a while yet.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 11:01:22 PM
Time for another update I suppose.  I'm about 48 hours in and been doing a ton of hunts and sidequests, I've got 21 of my available 26 hunts done and I got my first sidequest Esper.  Storywise I just beat the boss at Mt. Bur-Omisasce and I'm loving every bit of this game so far.  Vaan is level 42 and the rest of my party is level 33, I'm probably going to hunt a few more marks(well the ones that I can fight at my level) and afterwards continue the story.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 11:16:48 PM
I'm about 58 hours in, all my characters are about level 33, and I made it up to the Phon Coast.  Haven't finished all the hunts yet (I think I've done 19?) and haven't gotten a sidequest Esper yet, though I did *almost* kill Exodus last night that even though he was supposedly one you aren't supposed to do until a bit more down the road.  Now that I've got everyone to 33 I'm going to try again (I was like 29-31 before).  Which Esper was it you got?
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 11:27:39 PM
I'm about 58 hours in, all my characters are about level 33, and I made it up to the Phon Coast.  Haven't finished all the hunts yet (I think I've done 19?) and haven't gotten a sidequest Esper yet, though I did *almost* kill Exodus last night that even though he was supposedly one you aren't supposed to do until a bit more down the road.  Now that I've got everyone to 33 I'm going to try again (I was like 29-31 before).  Which Esper was it you got?

Zalhera, the Death Esper.  He's in Barheim Passage, GETTING to him was harder than actually beating him since there were several mobs of enemies before him that were in the 40's, luckily there was a savepoint in the room before him.  The funny thing is I went down there for a hunt which I finished and after some exploring I stumbled across him.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 11:40:09 PM
That's cool.  I haven't run across him yet because I haven't gotten back inside Barheim.  I know a hunt gets you in there, but I haven't accepted any of the rank V hunts yet.  I have a ton of hunts available... like 5 normal and maybe another 4 or 5 elites.  Just wanted to clear them out in order of rank, so I just finished the IVs.  I did manage to find Zeromus as well, and I even got past his guards, but he was way, way beyond me.  Summoned a gang of mobs more than 15 levels higher than me at the time.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Thursday, December 14, 2006, 12:18:56 AM
Oh yeah, forgot to ask you Que, do you have Golden Amulets on everyone?  If not you should, they double license points from kills and its a very good way to rack up licenses fast.  Also you should get the Nihopalaoa from the Muthru Bazaar in Rabanastre, it makes some of the later hunts so much easier, what it does is whoever it is equipped to it will reverse effects of restorative items like potions, eye drops, etc.  The good thing about it is that it gives an enemy a status effect pretty much 100% of the time, unless the enemy is immune to that effect.  I used an eye drop and echo herb on Gil Snapper and some of the other marks and they would be left blinded and silenced and easy to kill.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, December 14, 2006, 01:11:10 AM
I don't have too much trouble getting things statused the way I want being that I have two main casters and a support caster, but yeah, I just got that item and I think the real usefulness is that you can turn remedies into giant atomic status bombs.  Drop one of those on somebody and just watch them get raped.  Well, if you've got the 1, 2, and 3 licenses for remedies so you get all the effects.  That's pretty awesome.  I'm more into the bubble belts, though, so that way I don't have to waste time recasting it on my tank.  Anything you can take the time to avoid recasting when you're trying to fight a boss technically way above your level is a big help since you pretty much just have to chain cast cure and the occasional decoy to keep the tank aggroed and healed.  And yeah, I have some golden amulets, but honestly I haven't really had much trouble with LP so I only have 3 of them.  All my guys have all the relevant stuff on the upper part of the board for their builds, and I think 4 almost have the entire upper board filled.  All my characters have all three quickenings as well except for one guy.  Still only the two Espers, though, and 3 of my characters are sticking pretty much to one weapon type.  The other 3 have several weapon and armor types for adapting to situations.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 17, 2006, 04:08:34 AM
So I'm about 65 hours in I think, and I managed to defeat Adrammelech at level 34 (I'm leveling everyone equally), Zalera at 34, and Exodus at 35.  So I'm at 5 Espers, and I think 22 hunts?  Hunts are starting to get a bit tougher.  I tried to do the Antlion and it was taking me longer to kill the normal enemies in the area than I'd have liked, so I decided to just wait on that one.  The enemies before Zalera weren't pushovers, either.  Those big groups of UD on the way were pretty rough.  I think I might also be getting close to another Esper below one of the cities (mostly just because I'm convinced they're hiding one there... though I could be wrong), but the mobs are still way too hard for me at this point.  Like level 45+ and there are multiples I can't even scan with Libra.  Haven't worked on the story at all in two days now and have just been farming and stuff.  Finally got some of the better armor I'd been too lazy to buy (so I actually beat Adrammelech and Zalera with two armors under what was available, heh... after them I finally did a money run and got the good stuff for Exodus, which is probably the reason I beat him this time after getting close but no cigar the time before.  Adrammelech was actually the worst for me even though most people say he's the easiest.  He wasn't so bad, but he's surrounded by mobs that spawn in the area and do spells that cause multiple status effects.  That was infuriating for a while.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 17, 2006, 06:04:14 AM
65 hours.....nice....

Any clue how long this game can take, if you do decide to do all the side quests and the main quest???
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 17, 2006, 12:16:01 PM
Well, I'm probably only halfway through the story, if that, and I haven't even fought half the Espers yet or done even close to all the hunts.  I'm maybe... well, somewhere around halfway through the standard ones, but then there are some more later you can do for another side quest I think, and I think someone said there's also stuff to do for hunting down rare (normal, just rare) monsters.  Not to mention trying to unlock all the "lore" items from the bestiary (kill a certain number of creature then you get a little side panel which talks about the world and stuff like that), trying to get all the bazaar items to unlock (which you do by getting and selling certain combinations of loot from creatures), finding all the best weapons of your favorite types, leveling all your characters up to the max and obtaining all the licenses for each of them... I mean, it depends on how much of a completionist you are.  There's probably several hundred hours of content if you really choose to try and do everything, or you could probably power through it in 40 hours or something if you didn't spend a lot of time leveling and finding extra stuff (though that's a total pulled-out-of-my-ass guess, I have no idea how long it might take someone to do that).
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Friday, December 22, 2006, 03:03:38 AM
Well, I did something I haven't done on any RPG in a long time, pass the 70 hour mark and I'm now 74 hours into the game.  I probably haven't done that since Xenogears, even on the earlier FF games I hovered around the 60-70 hour mark with all of the sidequests.  I got about 85 hours of time logged into Disgaea, but a lot of that side stuff is just leveling up weapons in the item world and not really story/sidequest related and its a different breed of RPG than the FF games so I'm not going to count that.  I can't believe how much good side content they put in this game, none of it is really boring or feels tacked on.  The hunts are cool and what's taking up a good amount of time, I'm gonna do 2 more hunts I think before I get back to the story. I need to get the other two espers that you mentioned Que (Exodus and Adrammelech) sometime too, if you got them at the levels you listed I'll probably fly through them(Vaan is level 62 and everyone else is 48).
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, December 22, 2006, 08:01:08 AM
Oh God, you'll slaughter them.  You could probably get nearly all of them at this point, I think.  I haven't played in several days due to a complete and utter lack of both drive and time, but I'm not tired of it yet either, and I've passed the 80 hour mark myself.  Such a great game.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Saturday, December 23, 2006, 03:09:01 AM
Have you got the esper Cuchulainn yet?  I just got him along with Adrammelech tonight and completed two more hunts.  I need to hunt around for Exodus still, I have an idea of where he is, just need to go and explore that area.  After I get Exodus I'm probably going to finish another chunk of story since the only hunt I have left is "The Mystery Man"(don't want to say who it is if you haven't done that part yet) and he kicked my ass when I had him at like 15% health (the second time you fight him that is, the first part was a cakewalk).  I'll probably go back to him and any other hunts I unlock after I finish the next chunk of story.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 23, 2006, 01:07:47 PM
Where are you at story-wise?  I don't care about spoiler tags, but others might.

(click to show/hide)

And no I don't have Cuch yet.  I don't actually know where he is, although I assume he's hiding
(click to show/hide)
just from looking at his picture and such.  And I'm fully convinced that one is hiding down there, but last time I went many levels ago it was a little rough for me.  Now I should be overequipped to go find whoever is down there.  By then I *might* be a little closer to gearing up for Zeromus, but probably not quite.  I think I'm going to need the full outfit of group-buff spells before I try that one again.

As for hunts, I'm feeling behind.  There are some I feel like I should be finishing, but I'm not quite high enough level.  Plus I need money, so I may go out and just hunt bones for a while.  I have nearly all of the grimoires now, so I can usually make a good buck wherever I am.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Saturday, December 23, 2006, 10:37:17 PM
Where are you at story-wise?  I don't care about spoiler tags, but others might.

I'm past you story-wise.  Also your assumption about Cuch is correct.  Also, I found another sweet spot for money, chaining Mirror Knights in the Feywood made me between 100-120k in one run, the windslicer pinions and the other things they drop sell for a lot.  Once I would kill them all in the map where they are (I would usually kill between 10-15 of them in one map run) I would run out of the map and into another one to the east, then south, then west back to the map where they would all respawn again, if I ran into any other enemies I would just flee from them till they left me alone and just kill the mirror knights.  Took me about 30-45 mins for one complete run filling up my inventory to 99.  Now I have 290k gil after purchasing all the latest magicks, equips, and grimoires.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 23, 2006, 10:44:15 PM
Holy shit!  The first time I ever went chaining dudes for cash was in the Lhusu mines, and I haven't really done it too much since except for pelts in the jungle and bones from the UD guys outside where Zalera was hanging out.  But that's crazy money!  Good thing, too, since the big-time weapons and such cost so much money.  I don't think you could even afford an ultimate weapon yet, actually.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Saturday, December 23, 2006, 10:50:09 PM
Holy shit!  The first time I ever went chaining dudes for cash was in the Lhusu mines, and I haven't really done it too much since except for pelts in the jungle and bones from the UD guys outside where Zalera was hanging out.  But that's crazy money!  Good thing, too, since the big-time weapons and such cost so much money.  I don't think you could even afford an ultimate weapon yet, actually.

Speaking of ultimate weapons, I was talking to one of my friends at work about where I was at in the game and he mentioned some uber awesome weapon called the Zodiac Spear, which I remember seeing on the license board.  Well, I fucking missed out on it because you can only get the fucking thing if you DONT open certain treasures as you progress through the story.  I went to the area where it is supposed to be at and I didn't get it, so I probably opened one of the treasures I shouldn't have which kinda sucks.  Three of my characters have higher than average weapons though so its not a huge deal.  When I play through it again sometime I'll use a strategy guide or FAQ to make sure I don't open the doomed treasures.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 23, 2006, 10:57:37 PM
Yeah, I ran into the same thing.  Didn't know about it until way later, just like you.  Though I'm not 100% sure that's the only place you can get it.  I read somewhere you can also get it in another location, but it may have been a mistake the person didn't intend to put in there.  It's really hard to say.  As of yet, nobody's said anything about it, so I assume it's wrong.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Thursday, December 28, 2006, 03:59:51 AM
So yeah, I'm 88 hours in now.  Holy crap, so much side stuff to do.  A part of me just wants to finish up the game since I'm eager to see the rest of the story.  I told a co-worker where I was at in the game and he said I'm on my way to the last bosses so it's my last chance to do any sidequests before I beat the game.  I've tried some of the last few hunts and they have all kicked my ass on multiple tries so I caved and looked at a mark hunting guide to see maybe some kind of level recommendation for the three I have left and wow, some of them have a recommended level of 70 or higher, they are somewhat doable at my level, just a major pain in the ass.  Vaan is level 68 and everyone else is level 54.  I have 10 Espers, I found another one in the Necrohol of Nabudis but I wasn't expecting him there and he kicked my ass, might go back to him later.

I keep having to fight the urge to finish the game because if I do without finishing most of the sidequest stuff, I don't know if I'll come back to the game immediately to do it.  I have very little left to do though, at least I think so, 3 more hunts according to that mark hunting guide I looked at, the rare hunt trophies (I've gotten 15, I have no clue how many there are though).  Also I found out that in order to get the highest ranking in the hunter's clan you have to fill up you Sky Pirate's Den, so after looking through a strategy guide at work on how to fill that up, most of them are doable, hard but doable, the only one that gets me is getting a 50 Chain Quickening, that's crazy, the highest I've gotten is 29 and I thought that was just luck.

If I can't fight the urge to beat the game, I might just beat it and then keep my pre-final boss fight save on another file, that way I can do the remaining hunts, trophies and any other sidequests since I'm fine with using a strategy guide AFTER I beat the game.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, December 28, 2006, 07:35:52 AM
I haven't played in quite a while now.  I've just had so much to do, no time for games.  It's starting to piss me off a little bit.  I need a vacation really bad...
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Sunday, December 31, 2006, 03:46:38 AM
I just beat the game and I can say this is the best FF game yet, IV, VI, and VII were my favorites and this one just had a little something more than all of those games.  My final time was probably around 90-91 hours since after you beat it, it doesn't tell you stats or let you make some kind of clear save file, so I'm going off of my save time before I went to the last boss.  I was going to wait just a little bit longer before I beat it, but the last two hunts kicked my ass and the other sidequests weren't nearly as fun as the hunts so I just decided I would beat the game and do the extra stuff later.  Looking at some FAQs, it looks like I only missed two espers, a few smaller sidequests, and the trophy hunts (apparently I only needed 25 more), so I nailed a good chunk of side stuff on my first playthrough.  Who knows what my final time will be after all the side stuff is complete, maybe I'll even hit the 100 hour mark.

I was getting really jaded about Square since after Final Fantasy X(I enjoyed FFX, but parts of the story were kind of lacking), FFXI was an online piece of crap and wasn't really a FF game, it just had the name.  FFX-2 was shit and just a way to milk FFX.  So by the time FFXII was first being shown I wasn't really too excited since 5 years had passed with me being pissed at Square.  I'm glad Square has not gone completely in the shitter yet like I thought they were going to and FFXII was the game to pull them out of the rut they were in and I am now eagerly looking forward to FFXIII because of it. 

For the first time in a long time, I wasn't just playing an FF game because of the story, I was playing because it was fun, the new battle system is great and isn't as mind numbing as the previous FF games and most of the side stuff, and there is a LOT of it, was all fun and not just grindfests.  Anyone who hasn't given this game a shot yet really needs to if you are even remotely interested in the FF games.  I have very few complaints about this game and they are all very minor, one being the ending and just the last few hours of the game, while it wasn't horrible, parts of it felt rushed, granted the story wrapped up nicely and was a very great story, parts could have used some backstory or elaboration.  The gambit system also needs some fine tuning, but this is the first game to use it, so mistakes are expected, the gambit system isn't horrible but it only a few tweaks away from being something even greater.  Other than the two issues I mentioned, I really have no complaints about the game and was very glad to have put the time into it.  If I were to give this game a score it would be a 9.8 out of 10, very close to perfect.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, December 31, 2006, 04:02:01 AM
Awesome. I enjoy FF games overall really. Though I'm not what you call a FF fanatic. Actually the only FF games Ive played through are VII and X and I absolutely loved them. Right now I am completely addicted to FFIII for the DS, I'm loving it at the moment and after I finish I have a copy of XII waiting for me.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 31, 2006, 04:03:14 AM
I second pretty much exactly everything tet said, though I haven't yet beaten the game.  But yes... you all owe it to yourselves to play it.  It's great on every level and I really hope I get back into it soon.  The novel has just been eating up all my time.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: PyroMenace on Wednesday, January 17, 2007, 11:55:38 PM
Well I think it's time. I finished FFIII a couple days ago. Its a great little game for being so old, it was nice to enjoy an FF game thats so close to the roots of it all. Still, it doesnt hold a candle to what FF games have now in terms of design and presentation, and after finishing FFIII, it only made me crave for another bigger and epic FF game. I even found an old FFX trailer that I loved which made me think back of how great FFX was when I played through it. So now this weekend will be solely devoted to FFXII, I hope it will be as great as the passed FF games I've played through.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, January 18, 2007, 12:20:21 AM
One of the best games ever, if you ask me.  I've been taking a break from it obviously, but now that I've been playing Vagrant Story again and am in a hardcore gaming mood, I think I'm going to start back at it.  I haven't been able to focus on writing much this week.  Think I need a break.

EDIT - It should be noted that I really fucking hate people. (http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=459841&topic=33130423)  They're so against change, so stuffed with swill that they're incapable of even appreciating anything good.  They've forgotten what it even means.  Why do I let myself read this stuff and get worked up about it?  It's really very stupid of me.  I shouldn't expect that anybody would recognize that Sakimoto's soundtrack has more in common with Debussy than Williams, or that the game's localization is the best I've ever seen in the history of translated video games, or that the story attempts (mostly successfully) to go places the series has never attempted to go.  No, why would anyone recognize any of that?  That's asking too much.  Of *course* Uematsu is god even when the one song he composes and records for the game is the worst fucking pile of crap on the soundtrack.  Of *course* the game's dialogue is cheesy!  I mean, Final Fantasy VI was the fucking pinnacle of dramatic storytelling what with the little monkey-boy jumping around everywhere.

/me goes off grumbling in search of another glass of wine
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: PyroMenace on Thursday, January 18, 2007, 11:54:51 PM
Bah don't get too worked up over it. Its not like the FF fanatical idiots have had flawless FF games throughout the whole thing like they make it seem. FFVIII created a huge bitchfest probably bigger than this one which centered around its story and theme. The FF games are always changing, its really nothing new.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Friday, January 19, 2007, 02:59:34 AM
Bah, ignore the elitists and fanboys, let them be stupid.  Most of the idiot fanboys want a carbon copy of their favorite FF game and will bitch and moan about every other FF game till it happens.  The game sold well and got good reviews so if anything these fucktards opinions don't matter, if Square is paying attention at all, the sales/reviews are all that matters and I'm hoping that Square will stay on track and take all of the good elements from FFXII (mainly the gameplay) and incorporate it into FFXIII and make something even better.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, May 28, 2007, 01:51:13 PM
So I'd like to take this opportunity to demand that everybody take advantage of the sale at EB/GS and grab the Collector's Edition of FFXII for $30.  That's a steal and a half, and as I'm back at the game hardcore again, I demand everyone who hasn't give this game a chance do so now.  This is one of the greatest games of the last generation, and given that it came on the cusp of current gen, I have to say it beats the living daylights out of 90% of our current offerings as well.  If you've ever loved an RPG, give it a shot.  This is one of the best games I've ever played.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: wizall on Monday, May 28, 2007, 02:16:57 PM
Yeah, I ordered it yesterday along with Condemned and the Starcraft Battle Chest.  OW once again exerts great influence.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, May 28, 2007, 02:56:36 PM
Good.  =)  I put FFXII down for a while, but it wasn't due to a lack of interest in the game, just an inability to process information for a while.  My head is finally feeling a bit clearer, so I'm back.  About 86 hours in now, still loving the hell out of it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: wizall on Monday, May 28, 2007, 03:22:43 PM
Yeah, I look forward to it.  It'll be the first one I tear into.  My only issue, as is often the case with me and RPGs, is that sluggish first bit where the story takes a while to pick up:  There's a high risk of me losing interest.  It's happened a few times, unfortunately, but I hope that isn't a problem here.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, May 28, 2007, 03:48:40 PM
Warning, I'm going to be gushing again here.

I think your success with FFXII's early parts will depend on what causes you to lose interest in most RPGs.  For me, I tend to lose interest if the world isn't interesting or multifaceted enough to fascinate me and push me forward to see more of it while the story is taking time to build up.  For instance, I couldn't manage to get through the opening sections of Knights of the Old Republic.  I was bored out of my mind.  This was due in part to my having seen the Star Wars universe plenty of times before, hence nothing was really new, and because I found the combat pretty dull.  Had the story opened up a bit earlier and had I managed to get off that first planet, I think I'd have been okay... but it took so stinking long I just couldn't hack it.  Tried twice, gave up both times.  There was some funny dialogue, some neat character interaction, and other stuff... but on the whole I just wasn't immersed well enough, I guess.

For FFXII, that wasn't the case at all. The story indeed builds slowly, but there's all kinds of crap to poke your nose into right off the bat, and the art design, general universe and fiction, localization, and music are all so top-notch it didn't matter to me at all.  I didn't even notice.  Also, it's a got a huge like 15-minute intro movie or something that sets the stage from a political and military standpoint (as well as an opening scenario you can play), so despite the humble beginnings of the "main" character (who really ends up being more of an equal partner with the rest of the cast as things progress), I enjoyed watching the effects of the game's outset as they came into play in the world I was exploring.

And it helps that there's so much stuff to do and explore.  It's still somewhat linear at the outset, but things are just really... big.  The opening areas feel pretty expansive and full of random stuff to find, and the city the game begins in is chock full of people to talk to (and political climates to acclimate yourself to), little shops to sift through, random nooks and crannies that hide interesting folks or stuff you didn't realize would be part of the game later.

So yeah, for me the game is more about the characters and the world.  The plot is by no means bad, but it's very political and grand in scope... so a lot of what really makes the game more personal and identifiable is the world itself and how the characters move around it, talk about it, etc.  I can say without hesitation that this is the most immersive console/J-style RPG I've ever played.  Most similar games suck me in strictly via story and character... maybe a bit with the art design if it's particularly unique.  This one is different, and it threw me off a little bit initially, but in a good way.  And I can't stress the success of the localization enough.  It isn't completely perfect, but this is hands down the best localization I have ever played.  There are a few times when the sort of period-speak they strive for falls a little flat, but for the most part everything is delivered convincingly and with humor when its needed.  The game feels like it was developed in English.  I mean, even your average natively-developed English game doesn't do this well with its text.

Do try to make it through the opening areas.  I hope they'll hold your interest even despite the story growing slowly, but try to let yourself get into the actual world.  Because really, that's where the story begins... with the politics, with the way the citizenry moves through the troubled times, the way people react to what's been happening to them.  You get to glimpse that first, and I think in the end it really was the right way to go for immersion's sake.  It gives you the proper context to care not only about the main characters and their desires, but also the societies being manipulated in the power struggles where the meat of the story takes place.  They don't drop that off an any point and say, "Okay, you care about the world now, so we don't need to show it to you anymore," so you'll continue to see places full of people who are forced to live with things as they are, but it's more poignant and interesting at the beginning.

Okay... I think I should really stop now.  Maybe I should have stopped a while ago... but I can never shut up about this one.  Maybe because I haven't been able to talk to many people who've played it.  I talked about it a bit with Tet when we were both playing, and that was mostly it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: beo on Monday, May 28, 2007, 07:15:08 PM
i played through from start to finish, and while i enjoyed a lot of it, i didn't find the story particularly immersive. i was waiting for it to pick up right until the end, and i don't feel that it ever really did. by the time i'd finished the game, i still had no connection with the characters, and didn't really care about any of their plights. i usually get so dragged into the story of final fantasy that it's the primary concern of the game to me, but it really wasn't the case this time.

the battle system was a lot of fun, with mist charge combos and an interesting gambit system. it had it's problems though. for starters, my characters were all pretty much maxed out on the grid by level 45. secondly, with the right combination of gambits, it was practically impossible to lose any battle. i beat the final boss first time through (which is a first for me in FF games), and didn't really have to think about any of the boss battles. i' don't claim to be anything close to an expert at these types of games, but it all did seem a bit too easy.

i don't mean to rag on the game too hard, because i did have fun with it - i just couldn't say that i was 100% satisfied. based on the story (which is the most important aspect of FF for me), i'd have to say that it's one of the weaker FF games i've played.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, May 28, 2007, 07:40:11 PM
I'd say it's a bit weaker in terms of story as well, though I still have enjoyed what's there.  And I think these are easily my favorite characters of any FF game, though you're right, you don't get to know them as well here as you do in some of the others.  Maybe it's sort of odd that I like them as much as I do.  They're just so much more believable to me than your average FF character, but that's probably also due to the fact that the story is more grounded and political, hence the characters fit that better.  FFX's characters felt too much like caricatures, and the earlier games were always too cartoony (except for FF8, I guess, but that had other problems).  But yeah, I'd still say your complaints are probably somewhat valid, but it's hard for me to judge because the world is what really grabs me about this one.  Ivalice is amazing, and so much more interesting than the other FF worlds that came before it.  I have affection for the settings of some of the other games, but not nearly the way I do for this one.

Also beo, did you do all the side stuff?  Finish all the hunts and such?  I can't imagine you claiming those were too easy unless you'd really overleveled yourself in order to tackle them.  I find the game is nearly perfect, difficulty-wise.  I think the story stuff is a bit too easy if you're finding lots of stuff to do on the side (hence getting your levels up a bit overmuch), but some of the hunts can get pretty rough.  Of course, I also have a tendency to try to tackle things slightly beyond my level, so that may have something to do with it.  I captured most of my non-story espers around 3 levels(ish) below what most people's recommended minimum levels were, and I get kind of bullheaded when beaten by something that's too hard.  I usually just get pissed and keep trying to kill it until I win.  But I feel like the hunts have been mostly perfect... nice and hard usually, but not ridiculous.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Monday, May 28, 2007, 09:29:57 PM
Oh yeah, I probably should have left an update, but about two or three weeks after I made that post about beating the game I went and bought the strategy guide and finished everything except for the Zodiac Spear I missed earlier on and my final playtime was 109 hours.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, May 28, 2007, 09:55:57 PM
I'm at about 89 & 1/2 now.  I think it's going to take me a whole lot longer than 109 to finish everything I've got to go.  I really move slow when I find myself immersed in something.  I try to savor it.  I suspect I'll top this out around 130 - 150, depending.  The more breaks I take from a game, and I tend to take a few with a long RPG, the longer I'll take because I always have to remember what it was I was doing when I get back, then just grind for a little while to get back into the flow of things.

EDIT - Just got Cuchulainn!  Haha, that was awesome and fun.

(click to show/hide)

Also, I got my biggest quickening chain yet - 19.  Highest I've seen anyone post about was 27, but I think my record previous to this was like 15 or something.  I got the Black Hole, the best concurrence, and caused around 32k damage or so.  It would have been greater had it not been for the enemy, which was a highly-armored dragon hunt that had about 250k health.  That was a fun fight, too.  Decoy+Bravery+Protect+Berserk+Bubble+Haste... I think that's like my favorite combo.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Tuesday, May 29, 2007, 12:55:51 AM
Buh, I finally broke down and about Odin Sphere, FF XII, and Samurai Legend Musashi.  Then found out they had the collector's edition of FF XII for the same price as the regular copy of FF XII that I had bought.  Damn it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: beo on Tuesday, May 29, 2007, 09:47:34 PM
Also beo, did you do all the side stuff?  Finish all the hunts and such?  I can't imagine you claiming those were too easy unless you'd really overleveled yourself in order to tackle them.  I find the game is nearly perfect, difficulty-wise.  I think the story stuff is a bit too easy if you're finding lots of stuff to do on the side (hence getting your levels up a bit overmuch), but some of the hunts can get pretty rough.  Of course, I also have a tendency to try to tackle things slightly beyond my level, so that may have something to do with it.  I captured most of my non-story espers around 3 levels(ish) below what most people's recommended minimum levels were, and I get kind of bullheaded when beaten by something that's too hard.  I usually just get pissed and keep trying to kill it until I win.  But I feel like the hunts have been mostly perfect... nice and hard usually, but not ridiculous.

no, i didn't do all the side stuff. i did a bunch of the hunts, and they were quite fun and yeah, they did tend to be a good bit harder than the main story stuff. the main reason i attribute to not doing them all was because the story moves as slow as molasses, and i felt with all the time i was sinking into the game, i should at least be getting somewhere. i'm not one of those completest final fantasy players, although i always kid myself that i'll go back and do all that junk once i've finished the main story.

speaking with someone else who has been playing it through recently, we both came to the conclusion that the most effective way to customize your characters is to have them all with white magic spells attached to gambits, and the strongest attack power weaponry that you can use. it wasn't so much of an intentional choice into over-tweaking characters, we both just found that it is infinitely (and very obviously) more effective than having, say, one green mage, one white mage, one black mage, one heavy hitter, one tech specialist, etc.

the fact that i completed the game is a testament to it's worth though (i hardly ever play a game from start to finish). some things it did very well. the hunts are an excellent addition, as is the new battle system. i just find it difficult to say that it compares with seven or ten, because it really didn't pull me into the experience the same way. there's no emotional attachment - which is what the entire final fantasy experience is for a lot of people, including myself. i mean, while the bad guys aren't nice, they don't seem nearly evil enough. it's more of a battle of agendas rather than good versus evil, which isn't all that inspiring as far as i'm concerned.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, May 29, 2007, 11:41:33 PM
Call it taste, then.  I'm still liking that stuff pretty well.  Though I do hear you... I certainly felt more emotionally engaged with characters from other FF games.  I just happen to like these characters better.  It's like when you meet somebody and don't know them very well, but you're really interested in them and feel like if you get to know them better you'll really hit it off.  That's sort of how I feel about these people.  I don't make sense.

I'll agree with your assessment however.  It's really quite necessary to have everybody outfitted with white magic, and I think any player will learn that right quick or get totally trounced.  And you can go that route with weapons and equipment, but depending on what you're up against you can make things better for yourself by putting a little thought into it.  And you can sometimes tackle things at a lower level than you're "supposed" to.

But yeah, I love the hunts.  This whole game is like a giant package of boss fights.  That's something I can really get behind.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: beo on Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 02:28:44 AM
yeah, it's totally just a case of taste. there are some things that it does far better than previous final fantasy's, and some things that i consider are far worse. it all depends on how important each of those individual aspects are to you.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, July 01, 2007, 08:48:52 PM
I've been playing quite a bit this weekend since I'm house sitting and have little else to do.  Probably about 10-11 hours in and so far I like it quite a bit.  My main problem with it at this point is a problem a lot of people had with Vagrant Story; there's just too much to do early on.  You're thrust into dealing with the licence board, gambit system, and new battle system right from the start.  It's not really a flaw with the game at all, but just creates a bit of a learning curve.  I mean, my licence board is a mess.  I'm finding it really hard to keep track of what I'm doing and where I want to be going with it.  I basically just ended up hitting bunch of licences I totally don't need in order to open some quickining slots on some characters.  Think that will be a problem in the future or is it something you can overcome? 

Like I said, I'm enjoying it a lot, and it's probably the best direction they could have taken in order to make the series feel fresh again.  The Japanese "international" version does sound like it'll be much much better though since they're implimenting some wicked features (actual job system licence boards and ability to speed up battle). 

Anyone have any tips on licence character development?
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Sunday, July 01, 2007, 09:36:52 PM
I've been playing quite a bit this weekend since I'm house sitting and have little else to do.  Probably about 10-11 hours in and so far I like it quite a bit.  My main problem with it at this point is a problem a lot of people had with Vagrant Story; there's just too much to do early on.  You're thrust into dealing with the licence board, gambit system, and new battle system right from the start.  It's not really a flaw with the game at all, but just creates a bit of a learning curve.  I mean, my licence board is a mess.  I'm finding it really hard to keep track of what I'm doing and where I want to be going with it.  I basically just ended up hitting bunch of licences I totally don't need in order to open some quickining slots on some characters.  Think that will be a problem in the future or is it something you can overcome? 

Like I said, I'm enjoying it a lot, and it's probably the best direction they could have taken in order to make the series feel fresh again.  The Japanese "international" version does sound like it'll be much much better though since they're implimenting some wicked features (actual job system licence boards and ability to speed up battle). 

Anyone have any tips on licence character development?

Getting the Quickenings as early as possible is good and makes the game easier.  You might want to focus on one or two certain weapons for a certain character at first, but if you are like me and Que and do a bunch of the side stuff in the game you will probably fill up your entire license board with every character fairly easily, especially if you get that accessory for that doubles your license points on every character.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 10:12:21 PM
Yeah, it's actually filling out pretty good.  Now, did you guys kind of use everyone or stick to a certain party?  I'm getting my ass handed to me from time to time and it's really starting to be a bit of a pain in the ass.  Especially when you lose like 40 min. of progress. 
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 10:34:54 PM
I have issues with that stuff.  I always use everybody because I can't stand to leave people behind.  And with this game, you really have to until like level 40-50ish stuff. Then you can kind of focus on 3 people more, but I have trouble with that so I usually just keep upping everybody.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 10:57:11 PM
it works out for the most part I guess.  I'm at the mines just after the viera (?) village and died twice at two different parts.  Going in with a different strategy helped a lot.    Generally, Vaan is about level 25 right now, with the two sky pirates at around 20.  Basche is level 22, and Ashe and Penello are at 18.  Generally, I end up having to use at least two of my more powerful characters and one of the weaker during story quests (although for these mines I just used my three most powerful characters after dying the second time), adn then try to build the levels for the weaker ones during the grinds to the Mark Hunts and side quests.  It's hard to say if it's working or not.  I think it might just be a matter of getting over a hump for me and having enough skills and augment slots filled in order to make everything a lot easier all across the board.

The funny thing is that I usually die during the dungeon crawls and never really have problems with the big bosses.  Esper + as many quickens as I possibly can and swapping characters in for more usually takes care of the bosses without having to actually fight them. 
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 11:00:14 PM
Oh, and I'm sure my gambit setup is a large part of the problem.  I've been pretty lazy with it.  I had two characters at all times using cura if any character went below 50% and one of those stealing from any enemy with 100%hp as a priority after that.  As you can imagine the end result was them getting a lot more attacks in then I was.  I'll probabbly alter that to have my weakest character on the field doing the stealing and all of the healing with a Curaga when any character gets below 30% or something.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 11:52:22 PM
Work a strategy out.  For stealing I find its best to do that manually and be more focused.  Once you steal stuff you dno't get anything from that enemy anymore and it's an easy one not to waste a gambit on.  And yeah, do like 30 or 40 percent for health maybe if that's safe for you, and use protect, haste, etc. liberally.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, July 04, 2007, 07:35:53 PM
I forgot how much grinding in videogames sucks.  Seriously, you'd think that one of the ways they'd revamp RPGs wouldn't be to go back in time ten years gameplay wise.  You go from one dungeon to the next and the enemies jump like 5-7 levels and start handing your ass to you.  Lame, and it kind of makes me want to stop playing.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Wednesday, July 04, 2007, 09:12:34 PM
I forgot how much grinding in videogames sucks.  Seriously, you'd think that one of the ways they'd revamp RPGs wouldn't be to go back in time ten years gameplay wise.  You go from one dungeon to the next and the enemies jump like 5-7 levels and start handing your ass to you.  Lame, and it kind of makes me want to stop playing.

You really don't have to grind much if you do some side stuff while you do the story.  I rarely ever had to grind except for the later hunts and sidequests towards the end of the game.  Doing the hunts is a good way to get your levels up.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, July 05, 2007, 12:03:35 AM
I did a little grinding just for stuff to make some money with, but I had a couple favorite areas where I'd just spend maybe 20 minutes or something, get my chain level all the way up, soak up some cash and goodies, then head back, sell it, keep doing whatever.  I didn't really grind for levels at all.  Like Belmont said, just do more hunts. Though those do tend to be a bit harder than the story bosses and such.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Thursday, July 05, 2007, 04:40:19 PM
That's probably it.  I did all the hunts I could at the start, but then stopped once things started picking up a bit.  I got through the part I couldn't last night, and it turns out that there was basically just two rooms with enemies that are much much harder then anything else in the dungeon.  Kind of whacked.  I also learned that equipment is much more important then having higher levels at this point...which is kind of whacked since you can't really buy much without chaining...through grinding.
 
Anyways, really good game, but I might stop playing.  It's not that I don't like it, but rather that I like it a bit too much.  I can't spend that much time playing it, especially when I might play for an hour, die and lose 20-30 min of progress.  I'm too goal oriented to just suck that up. 

Overall, I think it's probably the best in the series...but as a result of that the shitty things about final fantasy are really annoying when you're playing it.  The quickenings are alright, but  take way too fucking long to pull off anything that does decent damage.  Gets kind of tedious when you not only see the same three cut scenes per character every time you do it, but you see the same ones over and over again in a very short amount of time.  Summonings are pretty useless.  Again, the cut scenes for the esper special moves takes final fantasy long, and that blows. 

The battle system is great for a final fantasy series, and I hope they expand upon it in the future (positioning, maybe a bit more interactivity).  And the level of strategy required due to the gambit and license systems is a welcome addition.

Overall, I think the game may actually have been hurt by being Final Fantasy.  The story is great, a lot of the characters are awesome (Judges are awesome), and the art is sweet.  The entire atmosphere is what the game is really about, but I think it may have been a bit better if it didn't have to conform to fit in with the other FF games.  I thought for a while that Square had this good reputation, but because of the wrong guys and the wrong games.  Vagrant Story, FFXII, and FFT are their best recent things out there, yet the guys who kind of just rehash the same music, plots, and characters for all their games seemed to get most of the attention.  It's good to see that this game is so successful and maybe we'll see more from these guys in the future.

As it is, I'm probably going to at least give it a rest for a while and get some Valkyrie Profile 2 in. 
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, January 02, 2008, 03:15:20 AM
I'm still going.  At about 94 hours now, still with plenty to do.  Buying a copy of Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings for DS totally inspired me to get back to trying the real game again.  Hasn't gotten old in the least, and now that my interest in other things has waned and my need for the game has been rekindled, I suspect I'll do another 10-15 hours or so before I crap out.  We'll see if that gets me to the end of the game or not, or if I'll continue to "save" it for when I've finished the rest.

EDIT - So I totally didn't call in sick to work today to play more, but uh... why not, right?
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, January 02, 2008, 05:29:00 PM
Interesting.  I liked parts of the game a lot, but my interest probably died out about 25-30 hours in.  Glad to see you're still enjoying it.
Title: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, January 18, 2008, 08:48:38 AM
Gotta vent here.  Beats the hell out of breaking something or getting into a fight with someone over some small annoyance, like the neighbor's barking dog.

This may be a spoiler, but I don't give a shit, because no one should be duped like this into a trap with no escape.  After about 2 hours of wondering around the Stillshrine of Miriam, I touch one of those waystones, which tells me it reacted to the Stone of the Condemner.  OK, what's that about?  Well, that's about being thrown in a pit, having all your magic taken away, and having all these assholes 20 times more powerful than you beat the shit out of you so fucking fast that you can't even use an item without dying.  I wonder how many Square fuckers laugh their asses off every time another victim falls for their little joke.  Ah, SO!  Bad ruck!  Hahaha!  No save point.  I never pass those up.  Motherfuckers need to die a horrible death.  Bring back the Manhattan Project and the Enola Gay.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, January 18, 2008, 09:03:20 AM
I am sorry, but I laughed really really really hard.

Not at the cruel situation, which I am sure would have pissed me off as well. Just your so very passionately angry reaction.

  Ah, SO!  Bad ruck!  Hahaha!  No save point.  I never pass those up.  Motherfuckers need to die a horrible death.  Bring back the Manhattan Project and the Enola Gay.

At that point I was reading that in the voice of Gotham's most notorious villain, the Joker.

Anyway that obviously must really suck. I am actually going to look up "Stone of the Condemner" on google now.

edit:

Why are you playing FFXII? Also I can hunt down these developers for you.

So let me get this straight. Basically as a practical joke, all your stuff is taken away and you can't access save points, and must fend off these uber powerful baddies somehow to get to save your progress?
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, January 18, 2008, 09:13:49 AM
Hahaha!  I obviously don't really want to nuke Japan all over again.  I was just letting off steam.  I can't prove that it's someone's idea of a sick joke.  That it's immensely unfair, there's no doubt.  Basically, I lost 2 hours of my life, 2 hours of leveling up, getting license points, collecting loot, finding new areas, working on licenses and gambits, learning new techniques, and I think 2 recurve crossbows I ran across somewhere are history too--I'll have to check on that when I can turn on the PS2 again without slamming it into the wall behind it.  In this game, you lose absolutely all progress since your last save when the party is all killed.  This particular room was completely unexpected, and unlike the other difficult boss rooms, there's no ominous FMVs or a telltale save point just outside.  There was no way to tell that certain death lies ahead.

Edit:  I'm playing FF XII because Que made me want to, and eventually gave me the game as a gift!  What a guy, eh?  It's really an absolute must if you like JRPGs at all.  This knocks my appreciation of it down a peg, but I was already way up on those pegs.  No way I'm giving up now.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Friday, January 18, 2008, 01:22:00 PM
If I remember correctly, I think there is a hidden Esper in that area you can get after you beat one of the judges after you have completed the main objective in the Stilshrine of Miriam(you're there to get the Greatsword, right?), so you might want to come back there later when you are a little more leveled up.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, January 18, 2008, 04:18:45 PM
Yes, I figured as much, after it was too late.  Woops!  You can tell right away when you step into an area you're not ready for.  Normally, you can high-tail it back out.  But this was a boss room.  Door locks behind you.  Too bad so sad.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, January 18, 2008, 08:26:01 PM
Yeah, that's not good.  I'm pretty sure there are two difficult enemies there that sort of signal you aren't supposed to go any further, but you may not have recognized them as such.  In either case, I didn't have the problem you did.  I beat the dungeon, then went out, saved my game, and went back in again.  Since this game is a bit more open than your average JRPG, and since it does take some cues from MMO stuff, you can expect that there will be circumstances where you can accidentally wander into something you aren't quite cut out to handle yet.  Generally speaking, you can just run the fuck outta' there, but I guess in that one you couldn't.

And Cobra, if it makes you feel any better, I've been playing the game for over 112 hours now and I *still* haven't gone back to fight that dude because I'm still not sure I'm ready (the guy himself is one problem, but he spawns a ton of high level mobs which are pretty horrible too).  So I can understand why you feel so bad about getting creamed, because you probably got really hardcore creamed like I did when I went in there.

For the most part, I can say that I don't remember any other area of the game being like that exactly, but there have been a couple points where I was at least half as frustrated as you because I got so close to winning a fight and died, or because there just wasn't a save point quite close enough to something and I felt like I lost too much time.  I stopped playing the game a bit ago because there was a particular hunt that didn't have a save nearby, and I tried it and lost twice even though I got close both times, but it was just too time consuming to be anything other than frustrating.  Of course, there *was* a save nearby, and I sort of knew it, but there was a challenge that had to be completed before it opened up, and the reason I got myself in trouble was mostly because I was being stubborn trying to beat this hunt before I beat the other challenge.  I get like that sometimes, especially with this game.  I tilt at windmills a bit too much just because I sort of find it fun when I actually do manage to overcome something that's technically too powerful for me (I've managed a few... it's always satisfying).

Anyway, I don't think there's too much beyond that one spot where you can really get into huge trouble like that, though it's possible in a few circumstances to wander into things.  I've done so much, it's hard to remember anything specific now.  I just know that it wasn't really an issue for me, so that's the best I can tell you.  Just keep in mind that the world is still explorable for the whole game, so there are a lot of times when you might find something that's too rough because it's intended to be a later challenge.  This isn't like other JRPGs that suddenly cut you off from things or have tons of stuff you can "miss".  There are sort of a couple of the latter, but not really too much.  Mostly there are a couple loot items you can just sell that actually have a use later (if you only have 1 of something, check online to see if it has a purpose before you off it, and it might help you to read a loot FAQ if you intend to unlock all the bazaar items and stuff.. it can be a little tricky).

Anyway, if you're in doubt about an area, stick to a path you know or think is safer and just try to get it done and find a save... once you know where a save is and that you have ready access, then go back.  Generally delving really deep into dungeons and stuff will bring harder challenges... pretty much always.  So be careful going deep into the Garamscythe Waterway, the Zertinan Caverns, the Sochen Cave Palace (I don't think you can get into too much trouble there without specifically looking for it later, though), Barheim Passage, either of the mines... a lot of the time stuff is locked off from you until later, but not always.  The Waterway and Zertinan Caverns are good examples.  I got into trouble I wasn't ready for in both of those places, though I was LOOKING for trouble in the former and was able to run away from the latter.  Oh, and if enemies are super tough, take that as a warning that something even nastier is probably lying in wait.  If you ever see a pair of guardians like were guarding that gate thing at the Stilshrine, just come back later.  The game seems to mostly find ways to warn you if there's bad stuff ahead.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, January 19, 2008, 02:29:23 AM
Oh, yeah.  Those big, death-casting mages were orbiting the waystone (or portal in the stillshrine--same function, but local, like the Moogles in Rabenastre).  I routinely need to revive characters when I fight them.  Tried buffing with Reflect, and it didn't do much good.  Thing is I was repeatedly taking them on to level up and to see if I could steal something good, so their use as a warning totally went over my head.  They were an expected part of the scenery.

That "mob" you mentioned appeared in a big hurry.  Believe me, I tried to fight as well and as smartly as I could.  I even added to the gambits, because technicks are allowed, but not magicks.  (E.g., If HP=critical, First Aid, plus get everyone licenses for First Aid.)  I tried using Hi-Potions.  I tried using Phoenix Downs.  It was all futile.  Any attempts at healing or reviving took too long for the intensity of the carnage.

As I said, I can tell pretty quickly when I wander into an area I'm way too weak for.  Last one was the Necrohol of Nabudis.  I ran into this big fiery bomb boss, and I thought I had to take him on.  (Save point just before.  See?  They need to be consistent.)  After a very long battle where I was micromanaging every step, I managed to beat him.  I think if I hadn't had an Icebrand sword and a Fire shield, it would never have happened.)  That guy was way strong.  I went on from there, and found both ways (Necrohol and something else I can't remember) to be above my abilities.  So I went back and talked to the Moogle by the save point again.  He pretty much says "don't go that way".  I guess I just need to pay more attention.  I think I got confused because when I first talked to him, he was down another path.  I thought he meant there's no more lazy moogles to find that other way.  Heh.

I did go into the Zertinan caverns too early.  Went back later to kick some Slime butt.  :)

Edit:  Oh, and I found out who gives out Recurve Crossbows.  I ended up stealing 4 of them, after I got over my temper tantrum.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, January 19, 2008, 03:02:42 AM
Yeah, the Nebraeus Deadlands and the Necrohol are pretty much where I'm spending my time now in post-100-hour land.  You'll see a lot more stuff most likely before you come back to visit those in earnest.  The Necrohol is more or less the game's ultimate dungeon from what I've ascertained.  There's a lot of optional stuff to do there.  It's been fun diving in so far, even the weak enemies that I can normally take out without much issue will sometimes surprise me with a trick or two and kill a character before I realize what's going down (I shouldn't admit that, it proves I occasionally watch a little TV while I'm playing -- I do this with a lot of RPGs where I enjoy taking long walks or looking for items).

Oh, and I think I beat the bomb boss at the point you're at now, so you aren't alone.  Though I guess there's a trick where you can earn some crap with him or something (since you can flee), but I killed him before I'd heard about it.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, January 20, 2008, 02:26:33 PM
Quick question.  All this loot I get, should I always sell it?  I know teleport stones and those greens chocobos like have other uses.  But should I generally sell everything I get hoping for Bazaar goodies?

I played a bit of FF III (US) today.  I do that sometimes--get into an earlier game in a series as a sort of perspective deal.  Well, I have to tell you, the music in XII is good, but it absolutely pales in comparison to Uematsu's work.  The emotional-impact difference is night and day.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: angrykeebler on Sunday, January 20, 2008, 02:47:43 PM
FUCKING SLANT EYED BASTARDS
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, January 20, 2008, 03:26:35 PM
That seems to be the general consensus, but I honestly can't agree.  Uematsu is an amazing songwriter, up there with the best in the business to be sure, but he has plenty of limitations, and frankly I think he relies too much on emotional and even outright sappy stuff.  No Final Fantasy soundtrack other than FFXII is in my top 5 for this very reason.  I really do enjoy a lot of them, but I still find that problematic when taking them as a whole.

Actually, it's recently come to my attention that I feel exactly the same about the stories.  There's been talk here about how some past stories have been better because there was more emotional context and more complex relationships between characters, but honestly, I'm feeling now that they rely way too much on those relationships to make the surrounding events interesting.  And it seems like it's the same 4 archetypes used over and over, which leads to characters that end up feeling like toys to me in the end.  I loved the hell out of FFX (for very different reasons than XII), but I wanted to punch Titus and Wakka in the face for at least half of their screen time.  It was a great game, and I did like the story, but 95% of what was driving me was the character relationships... I really didn't care how things turned out in the end, which is probably the main reason I never finished it.  I'd type more about the other games, but you can probably figure out what my misgivings are if you'd played them anyway.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while in some ways less emotional, XII feels like by far the most mature FF I've played.  Characters actually seem to stand for ideals and I actually care about what's happening in the story because it feels like there's real consequence there (the superior localization and huge volume of contextual dialogue with minor NPCs helps this a great deal).  Like everybody else, I think a few more ties between characters and a little more poignant emotional stuff would definitely make the game much better, but unlike everybody else, I think if you're going to end up lacking something, lacking the sap is definitely preferable for me.  I might change my tune if I ever felt like the emotion was conveyed well enough (like Jackie's relationship with his girlfriend in The Darkness), but... eh.  Maybe some other time.

Anyway, sorry to go off on a tangent there.  I'd just been thinking about that for a few days when I realized that I'm actually really interested in seeing the end of XII and haven't really cared much with some of the others.  The same formula applies to my thoughts on the music, though.  I like Uematsu's stuff, but I think he fails at doing anything for me as soon as he moves outside his comfort zone, where Sakimoto can consistently move me to tears even when he isn't doing something "emotional" (like the Westersand music... I tear up or even cry whenever I listen to that song outside the game).

Um... *Cough* yeah.  So as for your loot question: selling everything will get you in trouble.  In fact, you probably already sold at least one item that relates to a later quest... though I think there's only one.  The Giant Serpentskin (I think) is used for something, though I can't remember exactly what.  The way it works is that if you sell loot related to a recipe (i.e. ItemA x1, ItemB x2 = ItemC), it keeps track of that until the bazaar item is unlocked for purchase.  So you might sell 99 of ItemA, but if you then sell 2 of ItemB, 98 of ItemA are essentially "wasted" in terms of unlocking another purchase.  In other words, if there was another recipe along the lines of ItemA x 33, ItemC x1 = ItemD, but you'd sold 99 of ItemA to unlock the prior recipe, then you're going to have to go farm another 33 of ItemA in order to unlock the latter recipe.

It's a little confusing.  I think I said it here already, but use this loot FAQ (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/459841/45805) to at least get an idea of how it works if you still aren't clear.  And frankly, using a guide is pretty much necessary if you actually want to plan this stuff out, and even when using one it can be confusing as hell.  The best use, though, is figuring out what stuff is really rare or useful and what loot is "one shot" stuff that you can just sell off as soon as you get it because it's only used for a single recipe or whatever.  I highly recommend that.  You can avoid FAQs for all other elements of the game, really, but if you want to understand the loot stuff, a guide is a must.  FF games have often been the type of thing where you miss tons of stuff unless you have a guide to tell you about it, and XII is no exception when it comes to some of the more obscure things (you can fish, but good luck ever figuring out how to unlock the minigame without a guide, and it is absolutely guaranteed that you already can't get the game's ultimate weapon because of something you'd never know unless a guide told you -- don't feel bad, I think it happened to every single person who played the game the first time unless they were being cheaty and reading guides up and down).
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, January 20, 2008, 10:33:22 PM
I try not to use guides at all in games I like this much.  Not the first time anyway.  Thanks for the link anyway.  I may yet use it.  Can I at least infer that all the loot minus the couple of things I mentioned should be sold, if maybe not all at once?  What would I do with things like "arcanae" and "glazing" otherwise?

I did resort to maps.  It took me a while to figure out how to ID all the sections of each map in the game itself.  (Analog stick scrolls around, but only the D-pad actually changes the section selected.  Weird.  I might have guessed from the similar behavior in the license board, but I didn't.)  Until I worked that out, I had no idea where a section I needed to visit for a quest was, until I actually walked into it.  (Giza North Bank?  Where the frig is that?)  After too much random wandering around in the desert, I looked up some maps at gamefaqs.  That was good for a couple of instant spoilers, so now that I can read the game's own maps, I've stopped using the outside help.

My take on the music is that it sets the mood of the scene.  If it works outside of the game too, that's great, but that's not its main purpose.  I can see why Uematsu's better known pieces may be called sappy.  There are others, though, which also work really well, without the sap.  They also stick in my head right away.  I find some of XII's music forgettable.  Not all, just some.

I have FF X.  It's been a long while since I got it, and I never did  play very much of it.  There's a much better chance I'll try it again now, or I should say after I'm done with XII.  I'm so happy with the new "real-time" battle system, though, that I don't know that I can go back to the old FF standards for any length of time.  With ZSNES, I can at least get through the random battles in III (VI) at warp speed.  :)  No such luck with X.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, January 21, 2008, 02:45:43 AM
I'd say that a little bit of XII's music is forgettable, but there's also a considerable volume on the whole, and it was composed in a pretty short time frame.  Considering just how much there is, I'm surprised that I like as much of it as fervently as I do.  And again, don't misunderstand, as I do appreciate Uematsu's long legacy, I just can't say I prefer it in comparison.  And as far as music that sets scenes and fits the gameworld goes, I find XII's soundtrack infinitely superior to the other FF games in that particular regard.  Might just be me.  I find a lot of Uematsu's stuff memorable enough, but very little of it makes me think back to whatever game it came from (though obviously there are exceptions, particularly with VII, which I think is his best or at least most memorable stuff).

I agree with you that it would be hard to go back to turn-based stuff after the more active system, and probably even harder for me now since I never really liked the turn-based stuff all that much to begin with.  Which reminds me... I still need to finish Eternal Sonata.  Julia played the heck out of it, even did the giant optional dungeon.

As for loot... I can't give you any real answers.  Generally speaking loot is for selling, yes, as that's where you'll make the majority of your cash, and the only stuff you really need to be "careful" about selling is stuff that may serve a significant purpose in terms of unlocking bazaar goods, at least if that loot is very hard to come by.  But if you aren't planning to use a guide, then there's no point worrying about it since you'll never have any idea of what is used to unlock what in the first place.  The best way to go at it blind is to sell all your stuff in small batches repeatedly.  So sell maybe only a few of each item you plan to sell all your stock of, then after selling a few of all those different things, bounce out of the sell menu to see if any goods are unlocked.  Then go back in and start selling the remaining items again in small batches.  According to what I told you earlier, this at least reduces to some degree the number of items you may waste, since no bazaar items will unlock until you bounce out of the sell menu to check, and if you keep selling more and more of the same item without checking, individual items will just get wasted without really contributing to anything.  You don't have to be quite so paranoid if you don't want to, or you could be extra paranoid and bounce out of the menu after selling a few of an individual item (that's the best way to do it blind, but who has the patience for that?).

And it's taken me about 45 minutes to write this because I keep falling asleep.  This probably makes no damned sense at all, but I think I'll just post it and hope for the best.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, January 21, 2008, 07:25:33 AM
LOL!  My last post has the same problem.  I wanted to get into a more in-depth discussion over the music, but I was so tired that I couldn't formulate the thoughts.  Finally I left it at the short, safe blurb you see above.

I will try the strategy of selling across the loot items in small quantities, then backing out to see if anything pops up in the Bazaar.  It's a shame that they practically force using guides to get the most out of the game.  But then again, the idea of playing honestly is to see how much power you can squeeze out of the game for yourself, and that would always fall short of the ideal (as in real life).  Even talking to you about it in such general terms is a form of cheating.  I'll cheat my ass off the 2nd time through, if I'm not totally sick of the game by then.  I'm well on my way to a hundred hours on this sucker, at least.
Title: Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, January 21, 2008, 10:32:29 AM
I just hit 118 and a half, myself.  I would absolutely play the game twice, but I really don't have the time.  That isn't to say I never will, as I surely could if the craving hit me hard again, but I really have too many other games to play to devote time to another playthrough guilt-free.  So yeah, I'm cheating to a small degree because I really want to see and do everything the first time out, but I try every challenge on my own without the guide and pretty much never use it for known challenges.  The main thing I use it for is finding things that I simply wouldn't know where there.  In theory you can stumble upon some of it, and I have run into a few things just by happy coincidence, but in general this is a game where using a guide doesn't detract as much as some others do.  It's one thing if you use it to get past all the boss fights and such (that's lame), but quite another if you're just trying to get the ball rolling with some of the secret stuff that you'd just pass up unknowingly otherwise.  Because the challenge there isn't finding the stuff, for that's often all but an impossibility, but is instead actually figuring out the puzzle or getting past the challenge itself after you've found it.

Loot is a bit different, though.  If you do it blind it's really just kind of a nice bonus that rewards you for obsessively stealing/poaching/kill chaining and getting rare items, much like WoW or other MMOs, just far less annoying and time consuming.  I've been mostly doing it blind myself without a guide, but I do check if I see something that I think is rare just to make sure I'm not boning myself later when it comes to the ultra-items and stuff, since as I said, I want to get those at some point in this play through since I plan to finish every last hunt and side quest that I can.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, January 27, 2008, 07:13:48 PM
The two major threads are merged now (the original bigger thread, and Cobra's offshoot frustration thread which ended up mostly just heading into the same territory as the original after the initial group of posts).

Also, I'm at 129 hours now.  34 hunts down, 6 to go from what's in my roster, and I think there are 2 or 3 more regular hunts available along with another maybe 3 elite hunts.  I've unlocked 2/3 of the bestiary items given the bar along the bottom, and I've managed 9 of the rare marks for the Phon Coast hunt club.  13 items unlocked in the Sky Pirate's Den (most recent was the one you get for defeating the Malboro elite mark).  I've taken 625,744 steps, I've got 334,309 gil, and I've got a character at 48, three at 49, and two at 51.  Currently heading for:
(click to show/hide)

Whew.  Have also put in about 13 hours or so into Revenant Wings on my DS, and about 2 into Final Fantasy Tactics Advance which I was lucky enough to pick up recently for 20 bucks including the original box and instructions.  I'm addicted to these games.  XII most of all, but I think my love of that one has migrated a lot of interest over to the other related games.  I've yet to finish Vagrant Story, but I'm pretty close now!
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, January 27, 2008, 07:37:45 PM
I had practically forgotten about Vagrant Story.  I tried that briefly on ePSXe, but wandered away.  I've actually been distracted from FF XII for several days, with one thing or another.  (The latest distraction is Burnout Paradise.)  I need to get back to it.  I have over 90 hours invested into it now.  If you've got 160 hours in, then I know I'll end up spending even more.  I've spent a lot of time aimlessly wandering around, leveling up, trying different equipment and party members, getting and using license points.  What I like least about the game is to be locked into a place with no way out until you finish the story progression within it.  I'm in such a place now, which is one reason I was easily distracted.  At least this chapter in the FF saga seems to keep a consistent party of characters.  I hate how others in the series yank away characters you develop for so long and then drop others on your lap.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, February 12, 2008, 10:41:41 AM
140 hours and counting.  I'm starting to stack up hunts I can't seem to complete.  One simply won't appear, because the weather won't change to what it needs to in the Tchita Uplands.  Another I think is unreachable in the Deadlands until I get through some story elements there.  I see an island I can't reach, and I see 2 pier-looking sections that look like they line up between the mainland and the island.  Looks like the perfect place for a magically appearing bridge.  I've completed 29 hunts so far, I think.

I have a question about the trophies.  I hooked up with the hunters' club at the Phon coast.  I'm getting trophies from the special harder enemies, and handing them off to Atak, Blok and Stok (clever).  The head guy tells me that this will increase the number of weapons, armor and items available at "the outfitters".  What are "outfitters"?  Are these the normal armaments and items stores?  I have not seen anything special yet, if that's the case.

The game is spectacular.  It far surpasses any JRPG I've ever tried.  The meat of the genre, what you spend 90% of your time on in a game like this, is the battle system, and that has been done so well, so much better than the old random turn-based battles even in the FF series itself, that I don't think I could ever go back.  I thought I had moved on from the genre because of the extreme tedious disconnect of the traditional battle systems.  I hope the FF XII approach gets widely adopted.  It was so disappointing to see the FF clone that was just released for the 360 look like a very pretty, but outdated game, which sticks to the old system.

Beyond that centerpiece, the game really wins in the audiovisuals.  It's very impressive to be immersed in much of what it pulls off.  The scale is amazing, both within given world areas, and as a whole.  (Statues coming to life in the Stillshrine of Miriam is one example I'll always remember.  It reminded me of the original Jason and the Argonauts.  Same kind of unexpected thrill the first time around.)  The story is deep and engaging.  There's so much of it too.  Frustrations are few, although they can be huge, and I already ranted about some.  A more pervasive frustration is the variety of status effects that can be visited on you, and which constantly need to be addressed.  I need about double the number gambit slots to have my mage/support characters handle them all automatically, so I often end up having to micromanage.  And I still need to address a couple of them via items, which I hate to do.  Items run out.  Magick does not.

The gambit system works very well, though, surprisingly well.  I'm using all slots on the mage characters (girls).  The priority I have set up is heavy healing when HP is below half, followed by cures to dangerous status effects, followed by attack rules, and finally followed by buffing and HP topping off.  The more physical characters (guys) only deal with healing HP with the lower form of the cure spell, and have an extra rule in the attack hierarchy, differentiating between who is attacking me and who is attacking them.  I'm Vaan.  The game makes it clear that the main character is Vaan, so that's who I play as.  His gambits are off entirely, and he is always in the party.  He's 12 levels up on everyone else as a result.

I can run through areas with weaker enemies without doing anything beyond attacking my targets and continuing on my merry way.  Anything negative which happens gets automatically handled, and the buffs I like (Haste, Protect, Shell) get renewed when needed.  I still want more gambit slots, though.  There aren't enough characters allowed in the party to specialize mages into offensive and defensive.  I suppose I could fight with 2 mages instead of one mage and one warrior-type, and then specialize into offensive and defensive magic.  But still, it would be nice to be able to program in a full litany of event handling, especially since by now I have so many LP that I can make all characters do absolutely everything.

I went on longer than I intended to.  Much of this will only make sense to Que.  The bottom line is that this game should be experienced by all.  Of all the games in the genre I've ever played, over decades, some excellent in their own right, this one takes the top spot.  Even those who cringe at the idea of a traditional FF game should give it a whirl.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, February 12, 2008, 01:24:52 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself.

The one thing I find a bit odd is that you can't seem to have your status effects covered gambit-wise.  I guess maybe you just have too much other stuff in there?  I've got 2 characters with an entire spread of status stuff, and I think the only attack options I have for them are to attack the party leader's target and to use Poach on any enemy with critical HP (which is as annoying as it is useful since some enemies are immune to it).

But yeah, I have three characters fully outfitted for support.  Ashe is my white mage, Penelo is my black mage, and Balthier is just sort of a general magic user (as you said, LP is all over the place now, so this mostly has to do with how their equipment boosts their stats, not their abilities themselves).  They cover all status problems and there's almost always at least one of them in the party.  Vaan is built more for speed and he does most of my item stealing during grinds (using the Thief's Cuffs for the extra chance at grabbing good stuff), Basch is my always-bubbled tank who gets berserked/hasted/decoyed frequently so his axe damage output can be made more useful and he can soak up damage.  Fran is pretty much a secondary warrior with a little extra magic focus, doing backup healing and status stuff if things go south (not too many gambits, I just do it manually for the most part if need be).  Fran uses katanas, ninja swords, poles, and crossbows, Basch uses greatswords and axes, Vaan uses regular swords and daggers, Balthier uses his guns and bombs, Penelo uses bows, and Ashe uses maces.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: wizall on Tuesday, February 12, 2008, 07:05:31 PM
::sigh::  Alright, I'll give this a third attempt.  I've started it twice, but for some reason it hasn't stuck with me.  I've the itch again--not in least part due to you (Cobra) and Q's in-depth discussions--so let's see what happens.  I'm worried I'm not the excitable, patient gamer I once was.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, February 12, 2008, 07:49:40 PM
Where is it that you're leaving off?  Some people felt the initial parts were just too slow and whatever.  I didn't find that to be the case because I found everything interesting, but the game shifts massive gears once you really get a full party and can start using gambits.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, February 12, 2008, 10:36:03 PM
Fran is sort of worthless, isn't she?  I'm keeping my whole party leveled up because when the 3 active members get wiped out, the bench warmers can be brought in to sub, and to revive the others.  Characters 20 levels behind wouldn't last 3 seconds.  But other than that, I wish I could just leave Fran behind.  I keep waiting for her to show her strengths.  So far, she doesn't seem to have any.

I have 3 gambit slots dedicated to the attack hierarchy of the mages.  The other 9 are all healing, buffing and status fixing.  I actually have 2 heal commands, one for <50% before the attack commands, and one for <100% after them.  The idea, which works, is that everyone will have 100% HP at the beginning of each fight, and no time will be wasted healing during a fight until half the HP is depleted.  One of the enhancements on the LP board is superior abilities when HP is full, so I think it's important to top off HP when nothing else is happening.  3 slots go to Protect, Shell and Haste.  That leaves 4 for status fixes, and it just isn't enough.

As I said, I didn't specialize mages.  If I had just one more active party member, I could see it.  But with just 2 auto-fighters, it doesn't seem to be the way to go.  What I do is share the role of the overall mage across the girls, and the role of the heavier fighters across the guys.  Basch is showing more tank-type ability than Balthier, though.  I let Balthier shoot this awesome gun I found by sheer luck.  It jumped 2-3 levels above the previous equipment.  I also have 5 kinds of special shot now (fire, water, earth, dark and silence), so he can do about 8000 damage if I equip him with the element that works best against particular enemies (9999 on critical hits).  Basch just charges in with a sword or holy lance, depending on the enemies.  When he's in and Balthier is out, I hand the gun over to the mage.  It seems to pack pretty much the same wallop, which makes sense.  The gunpowder is doing the work, not her arm.

You didn't answer my question.  What are "outfitters", in terms of the trophy hunts (Phon coast)?  See the 2nd paragraph in my last post, if you need more details.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, February 12, 2008, 11:07:18 PM
You're right, I glossed over that one.  The outfitter I believe is specifically some dude at the Phon Coast who sells you stuff, or it might even be the three guys themselves, but I honestly have no evidence for either case.  I've gotten a number of trophies but haven't really bothered to go turn them in yet (especially since I don't know who I want to give them to... each one unlocks different stuff, and I think you pretty much have to give one of them everything if you want the best stuff to unlock, otherwise it's just standard crap you can get elsewhere... I think).

As for Fran, I think she's awesome.  I guess it's just the way I have her set up, but she works well in almost any circumstance... I use her almost constantly.  She does decently with magic, generally hits with a solid punch (and given the weapons she generally uses, she often does multiple hits, which is even better with the accessory that raises crit chance), and is tough enough to tank anything that isn't an incredibly hard hunt.  She makes up the bulk of my tanking along with Basch and also makes a great healing/esuna backup.  I have her geared with heavy armor, as I recall.  I don't generally bubble her, but I give her the bubble belt sometimes when I need a higher pool of HP, especially since she does decently with healing and can generally survive much longer against sustained damage than Ashe or Penelo, my mages.  Vaan sometimes swaps roles with her, though, because even though his magic use isn't as strong (I haven't leveled him any more than anyone else... the obsessive compulsive in me can't do that), he uses shields and I've got a pretty hefty set of elemental-blocking ones that combined with his high HP (if bubbled, plus he uses light armor which increases HP reserves) means he can often weather storms that screw with my other characters.

Lastly, I do gambits very differently from you.  My mages have no attack hierarchy other than the usual "party leader target" item and one for poaching.  No attack spells are automated.  I don't have 2 heal commands for anyone because I never found it helpful.  If I need extra healing outside of a battle, I do it myself, otherwise it's just standard <50% gambits for all (occasionally I stagger the percentages between characters for a specific battle, but not generally).  I've never bothered focusing on topping off HP or going for the "at full HP" stuff.  I do not have my mages do protect or shell, either.  That's done by my fighters (Fran, Basch, Vaan).  I'm actually not sure about haste.  I know I have characters who cast it whenever just to keep it up, but it's also setup to counter Slow.  Might be that I have it set to "Ally: any" and it just means everyone keeps it going, but I'm not sure because I don't think all characters always have it up.  I used to have one that just kept it going on whoever had the most HP or the strongest weapon or something, but I dunno'.  So yeah, subtract at least 4 of your slots and add them to status fixing, and that's the difference between us (one less attack, one less heal, no protect, no shell).  I definitely prefer to have status stuff automated because I *hate* that kind of micromanagement, whereas it's easy for me to see if something else needs doing, and I just tell somebody to do it.  Much more important to automate status stuff for me.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: wizall on Wednesday, February 13, 2008, 03:33:51 AM
Where is it that you're leaving off?  Some people felt the initial parts were just too slow and whatever.  I didn't find that to be the case because I found everything interesting, but the game shifts massive gears once you really get a full party and can start using gambits.

Not to get too specific (because I'm unable as it's been months), but it was pretty early on.  An hour, maybe?  Two? I realize that's not a fair judge of a game, and I know for a fact a few years ago it would have grabbed me immediately, but the JRPG thing has become somewhat of a chore.  That is, I don't know if I want to invest that amount of time.  Like I said, I've changed as far as gaming goes (most of my time is spent reading now), so meandering and seemingly aimless storylines tend to lose my interest. 

So, in essence, I believe you two (and others) that it's a fantastic game; I just need to get to a point where I feel comfortable playing a game without achievements.  (That last bit is sort of a joke...sort of.)  I'll start up again tomorrow when I'm not shit-housed, and I'll be sure to have questions.  The PS2 controller feels strange in my hands.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, February 13, 2008, 10:40:32 AM
Well, you do get the Sky Pirate's Den.  You collect character figures based on achievements.  They won't be broadcast to the world, but you could take a picture and post it.  :)

I'm going to have to rethink strategy based on what you're telling me.  Treating Fran as another generic mage doesn't work well.  I already knew that.  She needs a different approach to be effective.  I was hoping she'd show me her forte, like Basch and Ashe did.  (Sounds like a comedy duo, doesn't it?)  Has not happened, and the party is just getting to Level 60, with Vaan at 72.  I never tried Bubble.  Not once.  More HP?  Cool!  Will have to delve into that.  One thing I hate is how you never seem to get armor that's better all around.  Some stat or other gets seriously trampled by new gear, and sometimes you can't even know it until after you've spent the gil.  I recently had the chance to up Vaan's HP by 500, but lose a shit ton of strength.  I didn't go for it.

Oh, but I like my 2-tier healing gambits with attack sandwiched in between.  That's something that works very well.  Even if you don't care about stat boosts at full HP, I don't want anyone wasting precious attack time on healing characters who were already down near half their health, and I sure don't want to handle it manually after every little fight.  Splitting some tasks across different classes of fighters makes more sense.  Up to now, I've left the weaker mage to do all the support, with me (Vaan) stepping in personally when she gets overwhelmed.  There's no reason I can't have a tank handle the status boosts after the attack commands.  I have several thousand unused LP for each character.  I've tried to stubbornly adhere to traditional roles.  A tank is not supposed to be dealing out sophisticated white, green and time magic.  But here, why not?  I'll also go ahead and get them their 3 quickenings, so their MP triples.

Speaking of quickenings, I am absolutely inept with them.  I cannot make rhyme or reason of WTF I'm supposed to do.  I see button labels pop up now and then, but it's all changing so fast I can't follow it.  It all usually ends up with a "time over", a big MP drain and a lot less damage than I would have expected from all the cinematics.  I'm not much better with the espers.  I feel this is one area I really need to address, but so far I've gotten away with nearly ignoring it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Wednesday, February 13, 2008, 12:21:24 PM
Speaking of quickenings, I am absolutely inept with them.  I cannot make rhyme or reason of WTF I'm supposed to do.  I see button labels pop up now and then, but it's all changing so fast I can't follow it.  It all usually ends up with a "time over", a big MP drain and a lot less damage than I would have expected from all the cinematics.  I'm not much better with the espers.  I feel this is one area I really need to address, but so far I've gotten away with nearly ignoring it.

Just mash on all three buttons (triangle, circle and X or is it square, circle, and X?) at the same time since the biggest damage comes from chaining more and more combos to end with a huge attack at the end of the chain based on how many chains you've done.  Quickenings do insane damage once you have all of them maxed out.  If you can manage to chain 4 Lv1, 4 Lv2, and 4 Lv3 attacks in a chain you will end the chain with the attack Black Hole, which I've seen cause 65,000 HP of damage.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, February 13, 2008, 12:38:19 PM
Do you remember the positions of the buttons?  Is it left-top-right, or left-bottom-right . . .  I'll see if I can figure it out.  Thanks.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Wednesday, February 13, 2008, 12:53:08 PM
I have a good feeling its left, top, right.  I don't think circle is even used now that I think about it, its been awhile since I've played.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, February 13, 2008, 03:12:13 PM
I got a 3-character chain to happen, but again, it seems worse than worthless.  It's counterproductive.  The damage done was nothing special, it took forever, and I ended up with depleted MP bars on everyone.  Oh yay.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, February 13, 2008, 10:27:57 PM
I'll give you the details:

Quickenings are a great way to dish out a huge amount of damage in one shot, but some chance and skill is involved.  Yes, every character should eventually get 3 quickenings and have 3 mana bars at their disposal.  Quickenings and espers are both used based on how many of those mana bars it takes to use them.  For instance, you'll notice that you've got 3 levels of quickenings, and the difference is how many bars they eat up.  Espers are the same.  Look through them and you'll notice they take different numbers of bars to summon.

Okay, so a quickening chain is sort of vaguely like a slot machine.  I recommend having a character always perform a level 1 quickening to start because that way all your mana for that character isn't gone in one shot.  If you start with a level 3, you're tapped right from the beginning.  If you start with a 1, that leaves you 2 more bars, which means you'll then have a chance for that character to perform two more level 1 quickenings or a single level 2.

With me?

Once your first action has been selected, the overly-dramatic performance begins (honestly, I think these things are very pretty, but mostly just way too long and kind of obnoxious... they should have been shorter).  Your character will be performing the move, and you'll have your three characters listed at the bottom right along with a depleting timer bar.  The idea here is to select another quickening from any character as fast as possible.  That timer bar goes rapidly down for every moment you don't select another action, but the given options for each character are random.  Hence if you have Vaan use his level 2 ability and the next available option for him is the level 3 one, you won't be able to select it.  So you'll have to either use an option for another character, or if there's nothing available there either, you'll have to shuffle the options by using (I think) R1.  This randomly generates a new set of stuff, so hopefully an option will then come up so you can continue the chain.  If not, you shuffle again.  Often this repeats until the timer runs out and you lose, but hopefully by then you've gotten at least 10 shots in.

The big wild card here is the "Mist Charge" option which shows up periodically for a character.  That means the character will automatically get all 3 of their mana bars charged up again, which means they're fresh and will have all their options open again.  For me personally, if I ever see the Mist Charge option come up, I just repeatedly slam that character's button so that they'll grab the charge and automatically perform whatever action comes up after (this is helpful when everybody's low on mana because after a charge you know that *any* option that comes up for that character will work... so while it can sometimes shoot you in the foot if another better option was available, it's one option that's guaranteed to work without running your timer any lower).

Once you've selected another option from the list, the timer stops counting and you can just watch whatever's left of the current attack animation play out.  Then the next option will begin to animate, and your options shuffle again as the timer starts going down again.  So basically you're just trying to choose options as fast as possible over and over again, hopefully netting you substantial damage.  The timer I think starts with 5 seconds and whatever you don't use carries over to the next round, plus a very, very slight bonus that I don't think amounts to more than maybe a tenth of a second or something.  Very minimal.  In other words speed is all that matters.

Damage is pretty much just how big a chain you can build.  The bigger it is, the more damage you do.  However, there's one big difference, which is what Belmont was talking about: Concurrence.  Basically this is the cherry on the sundae, and what you get depends on what combination of quickenings you got during your chain.  The concurrence comes after you finally fail to get another step in your chain.  You can either get no concurrence at all, or you can get Inferno, Cataclysm, Torrent, Wind Burst, Whiteout, Ark Blast, Luminescence, or Black Hole.  Though these have elemental names, don't be fooled; all damage done is physical, not magical, and that goes for all damage done from the preceding quickenings.  The only differences between the concurrences are the animation and the damage.  Like I said, it's really just the cherry on top, and if you manage to get Black Hole (which requires you to get 4 level 1, 4 level 2, and 4 level 3 quickenings in your chain) you'll be treated to some supremely huge damage.  Damage from concurrences is also dished out in an area, so you can damage large groups of enemies this way.  Often going for a concurrence is where the smart money is, as not getting one means you're only going to damage a single enemy.

Anyway, I hope you somehow get something out of that ungodly mess.  Quickenings are very useful, especially for bosses that get ridiculously nasty when their life drops below 25% or 10% or whatever.  Some bosses also become incredibly resistant to damage at that point, which means a fat quickening chain can save you a lot of whittling time.  Lastly, quickenings are insta-cast, meaning a lot of times you can get them started before a boss uses a crazy ability or some such that wipes the party.

I think the best chain I ever got was 19 or 21.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, February 14, 2008, 12:29:06 AM
I did get inferno as the end of that one chain I managed to get.  But I expected to see massive carnage on the screen after the nuclear holocaust that the animation showed me.  I wasn't even fighting bosses, but regular enemies (though they were strong, around Level 58 deep in the Lhusu mines).  I don't think any of them went down, and I know I could have done the same amount of damage in a good hit from Vaan's Defender or Balthier's Formalhaut.  Perhaps I missed something.

OK, so the deal is lightning-quick reactions under a very short timer.  Joy.

I reworked the gambits.  I got everyone a full set of magic powers, MP bars and gambit slots, and spread out the workload.  I also cut back on the attack commands to leave more room for other actions.  I handle more status ailments, and I've added Bubble to the party-leader's buffing.  There's still no way to handle all the ills with gambits.  I counted 15 of them, 14 if you don't count Stone, which should only happen if you let Petrify go uncured.  I'm leaving lesser things like Sap and Poison out, as well as Stop and Doom, which don't have undo magic that I know of.  Those need a Remedy.

Oh, and I also added a poach if HP is critical.  That works well, but I have to remember to turn it off with bosses.  All of a sudden I start seeing "Immune" over the nearly dead boss, and I realize Balthier is wasting time he should be using to blast the thing.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, February 14, 2008, 01:29:50 AM
Yeah, that's the only annoying thing with having a poach gambit.  It doesn't work on all enemies, either.  Undead, for instance, can't be poached.

And don't worry too much with the quickenings.  Once you get the hang of it they become pretty simple.  My chains are nearly always over 10 now.  Just try it a few more times, you'll figure it out.

As for gambits... I'll have to boot up my game soon and show you my setup.  I don't know what it is off the top of my head, I just know I'm not having a problem with status stuff.  You seem to be unaware of a few things: Poison has Poisona, and Esuna kills Poison, Blind, Silence, Sleep, Confuse, Petrify, and Immobilize... uh, I think. Don't quote me on that.  Stop can be killed with Dispel, Sap can be reversed with Regen (same as Haste will overwrite Slow), Disease needs Vaccine items or the Cleanse spell you'll eventually get (this is one I don't automate since it's rarer and more serious... no reason to do one for Doom either since you can only Remedy that or just let it happen).  If you can spare the extra magic it costs, Esuna/Esunaga can be used in place of some of the cheaper but more specific status healers, so that may help you out if you just can't seem to fit everything in. Maybe stagger a couple of the specific ones between a few magic users and then just leave a generic Esuna gambit to cover the rest?
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, February 14, 2008, 10:34:30 AM
Whoa, hold up.  You mean I can just use an unconditional "Ally: Any" Esuna gambit?  The logic will be handled internally?  Shit!  Well, yeah, that would make it a lot easier, and leave lots of more room open on the gambits. Crap.  I know buffs work this way, but it did not occur to me to try it with negative effects.  OK, now I feel stupid.  I should have thought of it.  The positive effects are handled without explicit conditionals.  I will be reworking that yet again, obviously.

I didn't know I could use Dispel to cure Stop.  According to the description, it's for removing positive effects from foes.  That will help.  Everything else I knew about.  I do let Doom take its course if I can.  I hate to use Remedies.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, February 24, 2008, 11:24:34 AM
Holy shit (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152914&page=5) (scroll down).  PS2 emulation that's playable?  And look at those screens!  I mean, the game doesn't look bad on PS2, but it's unbelievable how nice those screens look.  If this gets to a truly stable, playable level, the graphical fidelity would add so much to it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, February 24, 2008, 01:56:20 PM
Oh my God! (http://wordpress.moreiracastro.com/ffxiiic.jpg)  Shit.  That looks so good it's hard to believe.  Even if they perfect the whole emulation, it will never run right on my PC.   :(  Some day.

Edit:  Yep.  Shader 1.1 support was just dropped.  Need 2.0 minimum.  I am out of that loop.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: wizall on Sunday, February 24, 2008, 02:19:27 PM
Those emulation screens look phenomenal. 

So, I'm about nine hours in now and hooked.  Love it, but one question:  What's the best way to approach loot?  Right now gil isn't a huge concern and the only loot I've sold are things like wolf pelts, which I had a grip of and know I can get again if I need them.  Everything else I still have...I'm leery of dumping any of it thinking I may need it later.  Thanks.

(I know I can check a faq, but that's a slippery slope and I may end up relying on it, which is an enjoyment sapper.)
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, February 24, 2008, 02:36:09 PM
If you read some of the older posts, you'll see Que and I engaged in this discussion.  I feel like you do, that looking up answers in FAQs is tantamount to cheating, and a big spoiler.  But his opinion is that the only way you can sell the loot to your best advantage is to look up the proper combinations for the best items to appear in the Bazaar.  I've winged it so far, and have probably missed out on the best stuff because of it.  I've gotten some good items, but the best stuff I've lucked into.  I've found it in pots, or dropped by enemies (or stolen from them).

Edit:  Start reading on the last paragraph of reply #123.  If your page splits are the same as mine, it's the 4th post on this page.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, February 24, 2008, 02:45:32 PM
Trust me, this game borrows very heavily from MMOs in the sense that actually doing things tends to be more the challenge.  Trying to get the most out of the game is basically impossible without a guide.  There are lots of things you'd never even know existed otherwise.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, February 24, 2008, 02:51:12 PM
Yeah, well . . . next 180-hour excursion.  :)
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, February 25, 2008, 05:04:35 PM
I ran into the end of the game unexpectedly last night.  It was awesome, but the fact that it ended outright is anticlimactic.  No!  I want more!

(click to show/hide)

I'm considering a cheating playthrough now.  I have an Action Replay PS2 disc, and I imagine this game has gotten a thorough hack-code hunt.  I'd love to see the whole story retold in a quicker fashion.  It was fascinating.  I normally want FMVs and other cutscenes to end, but I watched all of FF XII's intently.  This looks like a project for a creative soul--to make a complete movie of the game's story using the game, with the minimum amount of gameplay footage required for the whole thing to hold together.

I've completed 40 hunts, and there still remain at least 4 more.  I never did complete at least one other side quest, involving a letter to sisters who work on the sky ferries.  But now that the game is over, with no save which reflects my beating the game, I'm not sure I want to go tackle that now.  Maybe I will.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, February 25, 2008, 06:53:05 PM
Actually, some guy already did piece together the whole game via video.  Unfortunately, it's all on his site in shitty quality and can only be streamed (the major FMVs can be downloaded, I think, but not his entire body of work).  I can't remember the name of the place, but you should be able to find it with a little Google work.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: wizall on Monday, February 25, 2008, 10:15:14 PM
If you read some of the older posts, you'll see Que and I engaged in this discussion.  I feel like you do, that looking up answers in FAQs is tantamount to cheating, and a big spoiler.  But his opinion is that the only way you can sell the loot to your best advantage is to look up the proper combinations for the best items to appear in the Bazaar.  I've winged it so far, and have probably missed out on the best stuff because of it.  I've gotten some good items, but the best stuff I've lucked into.  I've found it in pots, or dropped by enemies (or stolen from them).

Edit:  Start reading on the last paragraph of reply #123.  If your page splits are the same as mine, it's the 4th post on this page.

Duh, I'm an asshole.  Thanks.  I actually read through all the posts and there are some good tips here.  I looked through the loot FAQ a bit to get a feel for how it works (12 hours in there's been no instruction and I'm glad I've held onto most of my stuff), but I'll leave off after that until I beat the game the first time.

One other general question:  About when did you guys start in on the peripheral content?  I've tried a few hunts, but the third one in had me toe-to-toe with a MOB I could barely touch.  I've just been playing the main story thus far.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 12:02:53 AM
Hunts are sorta'... a mixed bag.  They're ranked, but that doesn't always mean so much as they can be harder or easier sometimes even when rank would indicate they should be otherwise.  If you have trouble with one, just go back to it a bit later.  There are usually enough that if one is too tough you can do another.  And the hunts are generally harder than the regular game stuff, at least beyond a certain point.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, February 09, 2009, 12:34:07 AM
So I've bought a lot of useless shit related to this game, which is ironic because I still haven't beaten it even after all this time.  I've been gearing myself up to plunge back in again recently, though, and went looking for some stuff I periodically look for on ebay and the like.

I basically managed to find the full set of 6 mini-figures of the main characters for $12 with a couple bucks shipping.  Awesome.  They usually go for at least $3 or $4 apiece.  I also then managed to find a full lot of 6 promotional posters of the characters that I have wanted for so long now.  I passed them up a long time ago because they were just a bit too expensive, but I regretted it ever since because whenever I'd even see a single one of them, it was crazily priced.  But there's some guy on there now selling them for $35 for the whole lot, with free shipping.  That's a total fucking deal.  He's still got some lots of them for sale, so if you want to grab one, do it while you've got the chance.

So I now have way too much crap for this game.  I've got:

 - The official 4 CD limited edition soundtrack
 - The US strategy guide w/ artbook
 - The JP Ultimania Omega book
 - The Best Buy preorder promo thing that's basically worthless
 - The entire first set of pretty nice quality picture pins Squeenix released barring the "secret" pin
 - A few of the second set of pins which you can't find available to purchase like... anywhere
 - And now of course the figures, and the posters...

And because of this game, I fell in love with Ivalice and picked up FFT:TWotL for PSP, plus FFTA for GBA, which I even managed to snag a guide for.  And FFXII: Revenant Wings, of course (along with the giant guide because I suck ass at RTS games).  I already had Vagrant Story, but this one got me to finally get a guide and make it most of the way through the game (though it stresses me out so bad I still haven't managed to quite finish).  The only reasonable thing I've actually done in relation to any of this shit is actually keep myself from buying FFTA2 until I've beaten FFTA.

I regret nothing.  Actually, I take that back.  I regret the fact that I'm a poor person who has already wasted too much money, yet doesn't have enough to waste 1k or so on the life-size Judge Gabranth resin helmet they made for the game.  I would probably seriously consider selling an organ or two for that.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, February 09, 2009, 12:37:42 AM
You should start a letter writing campaign for a Vagrant Story II.  Mainly because i'm too lazy.

But i've been thinking of getting back into FFXII and maybe even giving the DS spinoff a try.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, February 09, 2009, 12:40:30 AM
It isn't bad, actually.  It's a fairly standard RTS game, but it's also got a fun way of bringing out RPG aspects, like letting you do optional battles, get and manage stocks of loot, craft items, that sorta' thing.  It's really pretty enjoyable, and while the story doesn't have particularly dazzling presentation, it seems like it gets somewhat interesting once you get past the fairly long beginning.  It's pretty lighthearted in theme and story, but it's almost reminiscent of the FFTA games that way (especially since it features the same character artist).  It's worth trying.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, February 09, 2009, 11:38:22 AM
Fabulous game.  I'm not too surprised the conversation about it picks up again a year later.  I never finished the day-long battle with that one big side boss.  Not that I want to now.  Heh.  But I'm feeling a bit nostalgic for Ivalice.  I hope the next FF chapter measures up.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Xessive on Monday, February 09, 2009, 02:12:50 PM
So far I'm really enjoying FFXII. The combat took a bit to get used to at first but it is essentailly the same semi-turnbased stuff.

I haven't played FFX so the License system was just kinda weird to me.. Surely enough, with a little time I got the hang of it.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, February 09, 2009, 10:41:50 PM
Just managed to beat Zeromus tonight.  Readjusting to the game after long periods of time spent away is really not much of an issue.  I feel like I did a tight job designing my gambits, so whenever I come back I just let the characters do the work until I remember the ins and outs of how I had it all set up.  I was itching to get back at Zeromus ever since that time I accidentally stumbled on him at like level 30 or whatever it was.  30 to 60 gaming hours later, I now enjoy my revenge.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: MysterD on Monday, June 06, 2016, 04:03:40 AM
Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (HD Remaster) announced for PS4 for 2017 - Trailer in this link. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2-bWotLKqo)
Title: Re: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Xessive on Monday, June 06, 2016, 04:17:32 AM
Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (HD Remaster) announced for PS4 for 2017 - Trailer in this link. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2-bWotLKqo)

Awesome! FFXII was one of my favorites so I'm glad it's getting a remastered edition.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, June 06, 2016, 07:08:52 AM
Hmm.  Add one more reason to grab a PS4 (Neo?) eventually.  Que gifted me a copy of this game way back when, and I loved it.  It's the only FF game I can honestly praise that way.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, June 06, 2016, 09:06:10 AM
I'm not generally a huge FF guy, but I adored this game, which I'm sure is well-documented in some thread or other around here. This is exciting. I'd love the chance to go back to this one again.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Monday, June 06, 2016, 01:49:37 PM
I will probably end up picking up the HD version as well.  I would love to play through it again.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, June 06, 2016, 06:13:01 PM
Yeah this is one that I'd be interested in picking up.  I can only guess that it would be coming to PC as well
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: idolminds on Monday, June 06, 2016, 08:05:39 PM
I assume it'll come to PC, where I will purchase it and play it for many many hours.
Title: Re: FFXII?
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, June 06, 2016, 10:25:23 PM
I'm definitely hoping for a PC release over PS4, but I'll probably get whatever comes first so I can review it.