Author Topic: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...  (Read 8385 times)

Offline ScaryTooth

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Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« on: Monday, September 21, 2009, 08:16:38 PM »

Offline idolminds

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #1 on: Monday, September 21, 2009, 08:54:28 PM »
Wow, that was an interesting read. Thanks.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #2 on: Monday, September 21, 2009, 09:18:50 PM »
Very interesting indeed.  I'll have to go over that when I'm a bit more awake.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline nickclone

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #3 on: Monday, September 21, 2009, 09:53:16 PM »
I didn't read the entire article, like Que I'm tired and this is really long, but I got the gist of it and I can't completely agree. My parents aren't rich, but they're pretty well off and like most black parents they were always up my ass. I'm don't fit the black stereotype at all and I'm what you would call "well spoken". However, the only people to give me shit about not "being black", were white people. I'd get the typical "You speak so well" or the "You're not black, you're white" and the " You're the whitest, black person I know".

So if the parents were lazy and the kids had to deal with racism at school, how did the researcher decide which factor had the most effect on the kids?

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:00:01 AM »
The sad thing is that Ogbu's conclusions should be as obvious as green grass.  But because of the taboos against race-related inequality, they will foster more animosity than action.

Offline KontrollerX

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 06:22:39 PM »

Offline shock

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 02:07:06 PM »
I wish he would have studied white parents/white kids so a better contrast could be drawn.

Interesting, however.
Suck it, Pugnate.

Offline scottws

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #7 on: Friday, December 04, 2009, 05:12:51 PM »
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/PrintFriendly?oid=285317

Thought it was an interesting read.

I'd like to read that, but when I click it I get redirected to the following URL:

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/Home

EditNevermind.

Offline scottws

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #8 on: Friday, December 04, 2009, 08:36:10 PM »
I haven't read the whole article yet, but I found this statement to be quite interesting.  It is a statement from one of Ogbu's former research associates trying to explain a different cause for the disparity:

"What I found, the requirements in school compelled them to act in ways as if they weren't living in black bodies but who were essentially white or mainstream Americans.... Kids found it difficult to deal with that and they found strategies to deal with it. They had to speak a certain variety of English in order to be successful. They had to buy into the ideas that dominate mainstream America. ... Black kids couldn't just be who they were."

Personally, I think this speaks volumes about the current black/white racial tensions in America.  I certainly don't speak for every white person, but I think this sounds like at least some black people, like this particular researcher, want it both ways.  They are frustrated when they see pockets of society with very little or no black representation and look at it as being unfair or possibly a racist community, but then at the same time it seems that they don't even want to be a part of that culture anyway.

I will say this though... the vast majority of companies I have every experienced working for or with value "whiteness":  speaking Standard English, dressing in at least what is considered business casual, and performing well in previous academic settings.  If black people want to blame everything on being forcefully kept in a lower socio-economic status by being "who they were", then things will never change.  Employers are going to choose candidates who speak Standard English and were successful academically over candidates who speak non-Standard English and were mediocre to poor students 999 times out of 1000.  If who you are isn't one of those 999, then well tough luck but the keys to at least getting in the door to success are pretty obvious.  I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I'm sorry.  They only exceptions I can think of are those that would receive some sort of incentive for hiring the "less professional" person due to that person being a member of some sort of minority or disadvantaged group.

You can ride the train.  All you have to do is get on.  If you choose not to, don't shake your fist when it leaves the station and you're still on the platform.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #9 on: Friday, December 04, 2009, 09:20:25 PM »
Unless you live here.  At my job, half of the employees speak idiot-English, can't spell, and can't do their jobs right.  Hooray for the land of opportunity.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline scottws

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #10 on: Friday, December 04, 2009, 09:33:22 PM »
Unless you live here.  At my job, half of the employees speak idiot-English, can't spell, and can't do their jobs right.  Hooray for the land of opportunity.
Well, maybe those are the best people who came in the door that also accepted the job offer?

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #11 on: Friday, December 04, 2009, 10:00:06 PM »
You know, I'd like to say that there's no way this could be the case, but considering the general level of intelligence at government agencies here, I have to concede that it's entirely possible.  I don't know which is worse, to be honest... that unqualified people are given jobs just because they fit a demographic, or that these people could potentially be considered the cream of some particular crop.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline scottws

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #12 on: Friday, December 04, 2009, 10:18:26 PM »
You know, I'd like to say that there's no way this could be the case, but considering the general level of intelligence at government agencies here, I have to concede that it's entirely possible.  I don't know which is worse, to be honest... that unqualified people are given jobs just because they fit a demographic, or that these people could potentially be considered the cream of some particular crop.
LOL, I hear you.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #13 on: Sunday, December 06, 2009, 04:25:35 PM »
The "whiteness" claim about standard English and standards of dress and behavior are a huge crock of shit.  Everyone needs to meet minimum requirements to do anything in life.  If you don't know standard English, then that is your next important task, if you want a better job and life in America.  I fucking did it, so I'm sure anyone who grew up listening to it every damn day in the outside world (which I didn't) can learn it too.  Dress code is cake.  Come on.  Give me a break.  Adapt or suffer.  I really don't give a shit which of these choices you make.  In fact, make the wrong one, please.  More opportunities for me.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #14 on: Sunday, December 06, 2009, 08:48:56 PM »
The "whiteness" claim about standard English and standards of dress and behavior are a huge crock of shit.  Everyone needs to meet minimum requirements to do anything in life.  If you don't know standard English, then that is your next important task, if you want a better job and life in America.  I fucking did it, so I'm sure anyone who grew up listening to it every damn day in the outside world (which I didn't) can learn it too.  Dress code is cake.  Come on.  Give me a break.  Adapt or suffer.  I really don't give a shit which of these choices you make.  In fact, make the wrong one, please.  More opportunities for me.

I agree with this about a million percent.  It's not a racial thing, it's a how you represent yourself thing, and part of that is adapting whatever the overall culture is wherever you're trying to make it.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #15 on: Sunday, December 06, 2009, 09:16:27 PM »
Exactly.  Don't show up and demand everyone change to fit your fucking view of things.  I wouldn't go to Tokyo trying to find work and act like an American.  Obviously I am one, and no matter how hard I try I'm not going to be Japanese, but I'm certainly going to put my best foot forward and try.  And not because of race, but because of the standards most of those businesses set for themselves and their employees.  It's damned common sense.

But I guess you can't blame people expecting everyone to change for them.  It's basically working.  Why should they try harder when everyone bends over backward to accommodate?

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Raisa

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Re: Why rich black kids are failing...and no one wants to hear it...
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 12:39:55 PM »
hmm, well when white/asian rich kids fail, no one wants to hear about it either.. so why the call-out to blacks?

it kind of reminds me of this article i read about Americans flocking to China for work because there are more jobs to choose from, but they get there and get shocked. It's tough on both the Americans and their Chinese officemates. oh well
Taken.