Topic: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.

[idolminds]

Story

Game releases in a little over two weeks and it seems like the beta has quite a lot of bugs left and features missing. Though to meet launch date they will have to go "gold" soon. Already plans for a 0-day patch.

The odd part is their explanation that the beta is a much older build than what they have internally. That makes sense on the surface, since of course all the newest updates will be internal so the beta client will always be a little out of date. But how out of date is it? If all these problems are fixed, shouldn't you get them into the hands of testers so 1) they stop reporting the bugs you've already fixed and 2) they can see if those fixes have caused new bugs?

I dunno...time will tell, and time is running out.

[MysterD]

Well, well --- looks like here's another buggy game this year that will need a handful of patches after its original release; a la Two Worlds, NWN2, STALKER, etc etc.

Looks like I'll probably wait on this one -- which is what I was planning anyways, in the first place. Though, I definitely do want to play this one, for sure! Especially when it's in a better state.

[Pugnate]

The developers of the game may be talented in terms of game design, but seem to have no idea what they are doing when it comes to other stuff. They keep changing their minds, and imposing ridiculous rules. They seem quite clueless.

[Quemaqua]

I'd agree with Pug.  I hope they figure things out and get the game up and running, but they need to seriously figure some shit out before they bite off more than they can chew.

[Pugnate]

but they need to seriously figure some shit out before they bite off more than they can chew.

I agree with that. It almost seems like they've taken far too many decisions into their own hands. Some of these things should perhaps be handled by the publisher, or someone more business minded.

Initially they imposed so many restrictions that they far too quickly decided against after the outcry. I sense a lot of indecision.

[Xero]

I played the latest build this morning for about 3 hours. I really don't know what anyone is whining about.  Right now it IS very playable and the game kicks some serious ass.  I got stuck on a texture once that was solved by logging out and logging back in. OH NOES!!!! 
Seriously I've played games in the past that were released worse than this. Yea it does lag a little in the stations. but on the comp I played it on it basically was slightly above minimum reqs and I got damn good fps (50ish in outdoor areas). It'll be fine IMO.

[Quemaqua]

All I played was the alpha, which obviously was buggy as all hell, but the game certainly seemed to have potential.  But I do still get the general impression that Flagship is going a little too far too fast.

[Xero]

Yea I can agree with that. After a little thought, just because I've played games with a worse release than this doesn't mean they get permission to half ass the final product.  While the game still is playable, if I have to worry if I'll get stuck on a trash can in the final release yea I'll be a bit annoyed. I guess I'm just trying to be optimistic and hope they pull their act together to get the final release in tip top shape before its release.

[Quemaqua]

Oh don't get me wrong, I certainly have the same hope.  Despite my annoyance with a few of their decisions, I still wish them the best of luck, and I think the game is going to be good one way or the other.

[idolminds]

When I said it had to go gold soon, I was right.

Game went gold, and a singleplayer demo will be released tomorrow. Oddly, I was in the beta but this will be the first time I actually get to properly play the game.

[MysterD]

Looks like the first patch, which is called "Patch 0", will be coming out the day of the game's release. Here's what to expect.

Click me!

First up, is the Patch 0 stuff for EVERYONE -- Non-Subscribers and Subscribers alike.

Patch 0
DX10 Update
The build of Hellgate: London which you are reviewing includes both DX9 and DX10 versions of the graphics library. The DX10 version of this build has a few known issues. They include a slow framerate compared to the same scene in DX9 and black loading screens. We’re currently working on a fix for the black loading screens. The slower framerate is due to the fill-rate intensive special features that only our DX10 engine has, including: soft shadows with proper contact hardening, depth-of-field, motion blur, interactive GPU-simulated fluid smoke, texture-array animated rain, and soft particles. The extra fill rate costs are mitigated by an initial depth-only render pass, which is now being tested and will be ready for release. When Hellgate: London hits retail, we expect the framerate of our DX10 target to be as high, if not higher than DX9, including these special features.

Multiplayer Updates – All Players
We are continuing to push both new multiplayer features and bug fixes to the Beta. Things that may or may not be in during their review time (depending on when they do it), but will be in by launch are:

Buddy Lists
Much better and easier ways to organize your friends!

Guilds
While only subscribers can start one, anyone can join a guild. Special name colors and tags on characters show their affiliation.

Buddy and Guild Chat
Special chat channels so you can keep your conversations clear.

Bigger Levels in Nightmare Mode
These increase the time players get to spend in each area, giving the game a more expansive feel at higher difficulty levels.

PVP
Players can both duel and elect to enter free-for-all PvP Mode. To duel, a player invites the person they wish to duel into a group, and heads into an adventuring area. Duelers, then right-click on the portrait of the person they wish to duel and select the Duel option from the displayed list. Dueling can only take place outside of Underground hubs.

Players can also choose to enter into PvP mode which means they can be attacked and harmed outside of Underground hubs by anyone else that has chosen to enter PvP mode. That is, those in PvP mode, must always be ready for PvP. This is a way to have wide-ranging free-for-alls, or create your own “friendly-fire” way of playing the game.

Tuned Game Progression
Level and monster progression is more thematic in nature. While this does not affect the overarching layout of the world map, it does make each act feel more defined and focused.

Gossip
We’ve added loads of additional details on the people and places in the game through various NPCs in the world. This definitely helps make the stations feel more alive and provides players with more of the back-story.

More Quest Information
Quest NPCs do a better job of getting you prepared to know what you’re fighting and why. The overall story flows much better, the named demons that are encountered are given more story weight, and players gain a much better sense of overall direction.


NPC Tweaks
The vocal responses given by NPCs have been tuned so that they tend more towards the serious and “normal”, reserving the twisted commentary for specific player characters or in rare moments for the general populace.

Okay, that's all for the "Non-Subscriber Stuff..."

Next up, "Subscriber Stuff" for those spending extra $$$...

Subscriber Features

Elite Mode
This is for those players that always feel a game is too easy. The demons are tougher, deal out more damage, move faster, travel in larger groups, and have more champions at the ready. Numerous tweaks to the overall balance and progression of the game make this an extremely challenging mode.

Hardcore
Hardcore mode takes away the various resurrection options. For the gamer that wants the ultimate test, try playing an Elite Hardcore character!

Guild Creation
Buy purchasing a Guild Herald, a character can form a new guild. Characters can only be part of one guild at a time and should a Guild leader decide to abandon their post, they can pass leadership of the Guild to another subscribing guild member.


Achievements
These are long-term goals for players. The player starts with a few new goals in an Achievement Log. These can be as simple as slaying a certain amount of specific demons to something as difficult as completing quests without the benefit of armor! Players uncover new goals as they start to meet the requirements of that achievement. For example, after 50 zombies have been slain, an “Achievement Unlocked” message displays on the screen. Checking the Achievement Log shows how many zombies must be eradicated to complete the achievement. Rewards for completing achievements can be anything from reputation to tags on the player to special particle effects to items to special skills to – well, anything is possible!

Extra Character Slots
While everyone gets 3 character slots, subscribers can have a maximum of 24 characters.

Larger Stash
Each character’s storage locker is doubled in size with an extra 6x8 section, making the hoarding of all sorts of goodies that much easier. Packrats rejoice!

Founder’s Perks
Name Color
Forum Icon
More to come… (this will be an on-going area, as well)

Okay, that's most of the "Subscriber Stuff"

Some more, coming up next.
Next special "Subscriber Theme Events & Items"

Themed Events and Items

Halloween (October 31 – November 4)

    * Zombot - A special pet just for All Hallows’, this amalgam of meat and metal is sure to frighten and delight those players that are willing to put in the time to find all the necessary pieces in order to construct him.

    * All Hallow’s Visage - A Unique Helm that has not only very special properties, but as well a look unlike any other helm in the game. Ghost Rider would be jealous!

    * All Hallow’s Treats - Delicious and devious, these different candies do everything from temporarily boosting stats to temporarily altering the appearance of the devourer.

    * All Hallows’ Quests - There is a pair of special quests available, including one that is repeatable for continuous fun.

    * Nemo ~ Master of Festivities - This special NPC can first be found in Covent Garden Station to greet players and send them on their way with quests specifically crafted for the season.

[idolminds]

Interest...dropping.....

[MysterD]

Interest...dropping.....

Same here.

The "Subscriber Only" stuff don't even sound that great -- at least right now, it doesn't. Most of that stuff, you'd think would be available in the "non-subscriber version" of Patch 0; such as the extra diffuculty settings.

The whole "EULA" issue is pathetic. I think it's fine for HG: London to want to know what my system has for hardware power -- I have no problem w/ that, since it probably is quite beneficial for the designers to know what the hell exactly gamers are using for hardware, so they can try to optimize the game as much as possible for as many possible hardware sets and combination that they can see in use by gamers. I don't think any gamer is complaining about that much.

Though, HG: London's EULA crosses the line when wanting to know more than my hardware, such as what other software I have and transmitting info to possibly other 3rd-parties -- that's just ridiculous and not fine w/ me.

[Pugnate]

Why can't they just push the release date?

EA?

[Jedi]

Why can't they just push the release date?

EA?

Money....

[MysterD]

About Early Release Of The Game....

Why can't they just push the release date?

EA?

Actually, they kind of did....
Only if you buy the product from EA directly....

LINKY

Hellgate London Unlocks Tomorrow?
Oct 23, 2007 at 1:26 PM - Robert "Apache" Howarth - 3 Comments

Well geeze. It looks like if you buy Hellgate London from the EA store, the game unlocks tomorrow. Thanks, Brian Williams.

In other EA store news, if you pre-order Crysis, the game unlocks 3 days earlier than retail, plus you can download the SP demo on Thursday.

The kicker? EA's download service has a somewhat colorful history in terms of quality and support.

Do you feel lucky? Do ya?!

EDIT:
Idol beat me to it on the EULA Ordeal.
Removed.

[idolminds]

EULA Explanation

We just made some big announcements about Hellgate: London, and it’s been great to see all of the excited comments regarding what we have in store for our players on day one and onward. On the flip side, we’ve also heard grumblings about the EULA that went out with our DX9 single-player demo.


We want to make something very clear. We are in no way scanning your computers for your personal information or taking any personal information without your knowledge. The only time that Flagship or Ping0 would collect your personally identifiable information is when you actually decide to give it to us. Examples are when you create an account for Hellgate: London online or when you provide us your personal information when you enter a contest. The language in the portion of the EULA that has been cited is actually fairly standardized language that is used in the vast majority of EULAs for recent on-line software. It was unfortunately also somewhat broad in scope and potentially ambiguous in nature in an attempt to keep the legalese at a minimum.


This catch-all statement was included so that we have the ability to determine if someone is using hacks, unauthorized mods or other abusive applications while playing the game which spoils the gameplay for everyone else. We also use this catch-all to protect other parties offering technical support, such as our online provider, Ping0. This is a completely legitimate function and other leaders in the MMO space do it in an effort to stop hackers and provide better technical support. In order to stop hacks and cheats, as well as attempts at outright fraud, we may need the ability to scan our player’s computers for applications running at the same time as our game. This paragraph was designed to be able to allow for such functionality. It is also important to point out that EA does not determine what we do in regards to online and offline for our game security.


Also, this has nothing specifically to do with advertisements. EA has nothing do with Massive or potential ad-serving in Hellgate: London. First and foremost, any in-game advertising that would be in Hellgate: London is there to simulate how London looks in the real-world. Ads that represent this have been in the entirety of the beta, and in fact, have been shown in the game for well over a year. The fact is that we did not agree to potentially have ads in the game just to make more money. If we did not work with Massive, we would have to get individual approvals from every single company that we want to feature in the Underground stations. This is simply too time consuming and it’s much better to have the experts to do it, allowing us time to focus on making Hellgate: London better and better while getting a realistic portrayal of London in the process.


Should we elect to serve ads, they must be approved by us, Flagship Studios. We would demand that they be in-context with the game world - aged, weathered, only shown in appropriate areas, just as the static posters you see in the Stations are now. We have no interest in putting giant, bright-white billboard in the middle of your battles or having you wield swords of Brand X Cola.


Finally, Hellgate: London and all of the online play and components are controlled by Flagship Studios and Ping0. We’re all gamers here, and we’re as sensitive to protecting our personal information as you are. This is why we have spent the past six months becoming a member of the ESRB Privacy Online certification program. This means that we’re meeting the most rigorous standards in the industry for protecting your privacy and the information that you provide us.


We hope this helps address the concerns of our community.


See you online!

The bold part made me laugh pretty good. The ads arent there to make them money, its there for you, the gamer, to make it feel more like the real London. Sure, we could have just made some fake ads, but that involved work. The fact that the ad companies will pay us had no baring on this decision.

Do you like my hat? It's made of MONEY!

[MysterD]

Let's see....

The Witcher will let me register the game for FREE and then I can get extra MP3's (music and videos); game extensions; tips from game designers; an SDK to be released by X-Mas; and other unannounced cool stuff...

...while Hellgate wants me to pay a monthly fee or lifetime free to get extra in-game extensions; comes w/ Advertising; comes w/ Ad-ware that wants to scan my PC; etc etc.

Hmmm, I think I'll go with The Witcher.

[Pugnate]

We at Electronic Arts are shocked and hurt at some of the accusations that have been going around. These advertisements are there for your benefit, and not to increase our revenue.

But honestly, I don't mind in game advertising if it is done tastefully. Big IF though.

[Quemaqua]

Do you like my hat? It's made of MONEY!

 

[MysterD]

We at Electronic Arts are shocked and hurt at some of the accusations that have been going around. These advertisements are there for your benefit, and not to increase our revenue.

LOL!

But honestly, I don't mind in game advertising if it is done tastefully. Big IF though.

Exactly my sentiments on the bolded part there, Pug.

[MysterD]

Reviews
7.4 from CVG
7 from Bit-Tech

ShackNews gives no score, but they think the game needs some major patching, tweaks, changes, and fixing to make it worthwhile.

[Pugnate]

Those lower than expected review scores made me feel surprisingly happy, which kinda shocked me. In the end, I've always put personal dislikes aside and always hoped for the best when it came to a game -- especially a PC game.

So yes, for the very first time I felt happiness that a much hyped game got disappointing scores.

Here are a few reasons why I may be pleased:

1. When they initially started development, the developers did an interview where they talked about why they left Blizzard. They didn't seem like a pleasant bunch.

2. They kept making idiotic decisions and then going back on them at the slightest sign of a fan protest. This showed a lack of confidence.

3. They shook hands with EA.

4. Even before they shook hands with EA, they had started to adopt EA's greedy behavior.

5. No LAN play. I have two PCs. No way am I buying two copies to play with my friends on LAN. When I went to the forums to express my unhappiness, I saw the game's fanboys already shredding other protesters to bits. This was years ago! God I hate fanboys. Fuck fanboys,.

6. This is a selfish reason. It is another game I don't have to buy.

I am pretty sure PC Gamer will give this a score in the 80s. Why? Because they put the game on the cover, and once they do that, no matter how bad a game is, it gets a score that allows PCG to save face.

--------------------------------------

I've been going across the boards, and the singleplayer in this seems to be really ordinary. Some of the classes are fairly cool, but most suck. The NPCs are horrible, and the storyline is retarded and thin. The multiplayer is good, but when you consider that it is pay to play, then it is competing with a whole new breed of games. I doubt it could stand up to them.


--------------------------------------

OK I swear to god I had no idea what score PC Gamer would give this game when I said,"I am pretty sure PC Gamer will give this a score in the 80s. Why? Because they put the game on the cover, and once they do that, no matter how bad a game is, it gets a score that allows PCG to save face. "

I know it is fairly early days, but here are some new scores:

Gamepro: 3/5
Eurogamer: 7/10
PC Zone: 74%
PC Gamer UK: 73%
PC Gamer: 89%

[MysterD]

Eurogamer Review
Let the mediocre reviews continue w/ Eurogamer's review...
7 from Eurogamer

To Pug

Those lower than expected review scores made me feel surprisingly happy, which kinda shocked me. In the end, I've always put personal dislikes aside and always hoped for the best when it came to a game -- especially a PC game.

So yes, for the very first time I felt happiness that a much hyped game got disappointing scores.

Here are a few reasons why I may be pleased:

1. When they initially started development, the developers did an interview where they talked about why they left Blizzard. They didn't seem like a pleasant bunch.

2. They kept making idiotic decisions and then going back on them at the slightest sign of a fan protest. This showed a lack of confidence.

3. They shook hands with EA.

4. Even before they shook hands with EA, they had started to adopt EA's greedy behavior.

Acting like EA = big "no-no" to me -- hehe.

Especially w/ the Hellgate EULA and the game's "subscription" model, I really wasn't too happy w/ them. Throw in the ads and other stuff, and I think Flagship is doing everything I think a game developer SHOULD NOT try to do.

Meanwhile, you got CD Projekt here who FOUGHT with Atari to convince them not to FORCE a Required Registration/Activation on the gamer. They got their way, too. If you want some extra content for the game that they WILL later release for FREE, you have to register your CD Key with them, though -- up to you.

5. No LAN play. I have two PCs. No way am I buying two copies to play with my friends on LAN. When I went to the forums to express my unhappiness, I saw the game's fanboys already shredding other protesters to bits. This was years ago! God I hate fanboys. Fuck fanboys.

No LAN play seems foolish, to me.

With Hellgate having what is said to be a lackluster SP, one can wonder why they included it, if it wasn't going to be that good. I'll have to play it, to give an actual opinion on it, though. But, this is basically how I felt about Two Worlds' MP portion; it felt very unnecessary to have this component, given how good the SP experience was. For Two Worlds, it probably didn't help that there was a lack of MP servers and players, as well. I dunno -- if it was dull, compared to the SP experience that had me hooked.

6. This is a selfish reason. It is another game I don't have to buy.

Same here, Pug. Makes my decision a lot easier on what to do w/ Hellgate.
Especially since it seems buggy out the box, even after a patch already. I can wait on this one -- especially if the SP portion isn't that great and especially since there is that "subscription model."

GameSpot's HG Guide
G-Spot ain't done with the HG Guide yet it looks like, but they have at least started a Guide up for HG: London.

[Pugnate]

It almost seems that development focus shifted when they realized how much more money they could make with an MMORPG.

[MysterD]

To Pug

It almost seems that development focus shifted when they realized how much more money they could make with an MMORPG.

Basically, that is what it sounds like, unfortunately.

GameSpy ain't impressed, either...
3 stars from GameSpy (out of 5)

[idolminds]

Oh but its not an MMO! Really! I know we're charging a monthly fee and everything, but thats just for the content (and other things we've locked away)! Totally not an MMO. Nope. Not even a little.



Ok, maybe a little.


Though I do agree with pug. I think the development started off well enough until they realized they could get a monthly fee out of players. Then it was all about money and not particularly about the game itself. I think Blizzard games do well because...sure they want to make money, but I get the impression that they really, truely care about the quality of the games themselves. Theres that little extra something. Impossible to describe, but you can tell the developers put a little love into the game. Hellgate seems to be missing that.

[Pugnate]

I think Blizzard games do well because...sure they want to make money, but I get the impression that they really, truely care about the quality of the games themselves.

Exactly. Their games have a soul. Also it helps that Blizzard doesn't charge fees to play online.

EDIT:

OMG BREAKING NEWS! BLIZZARD SOLD TO ELETRONIC ARTS!

[scottws]

OMG BREAKING NEWS! BLIZZARD SOLD TO ELETRONIC ARTS!

[MysterD]

To Puggy

Exactly. Their games have a soul. Also it helps that Blizzard doesn't charge fees to play online.

EDIT:

OMG BREAKING NEWS! FLAGSHIP SOLD TO ELETRONIC ARTS!

Oh, we knew that much.


AtomicGamer Review
79% from AtomicGamer

GamesRadar Review
7 from GamesRadar (out of 10)

[Ghandi]

Though I do agree with pug. I think the development started off well enough until they realized they could get a monthly fee out of players. Then it was all about money and not particularly about the game itself. I think Blizzard games do well because...sure they want to make money, but I get the impression that they really, truely care about the quality of the games themselves. Theres that little extra something. Impossible to describe, but you can tell the developers put a little love into the game. Hellgate seems to be missing that.

It's the forced child labor. Those kids crap out good games.

[MysterD]

I think Blizzard games do well because...sure they want to make money, but I get the impression that they really, truely care about the quality of the games themselves. Theres that little extra something. Impossible to describe, but you can tell the developers put a little love into the game. Hellgate seems to be missing that.

It's really amazing to see a company like Blizzard still decide every year or so, to pop off another patch for Starcraft.

Most games these days stop getting official patches around a year or so, after the game's release.

[Xero]

Hellgate is awsome fuck you guys!

[Pugnate]

haha.. It probably is. I'll pick it up eventually.

[MysterD]

haha.. It probably is. I'll pick it up eventually.

I'm sure once many of the issues and kinks get worked out w/ a bunch of patches behind it AND when HG: London gets cheaper, I'll probably get it.

I still want to play it.

[Quemaqua]

Given that I don't want EA's prying eyes looking up my rectum, I think I've officially decided that I won't go anywhere near Hellgate until that behavior is removed.  If it never is, I'll never play it.  Honestly, I can just wait for the *actual* Diablo 3.

[MysterD]

Given that I don't want EA's prying eyes looking up my rectum, I think I've officially decided that I won't go anywhere near Hellgate until that behavior is removed.  If it never is, I'll never play it.  Honestly, I can just wait for the *actual* Diablo 3.

I just hope D3 will NOT be a MMO Only.

[Pugnate]

D3 would be awesome. Trouble is Blizzard need to really innovate rather than just produce Diablo 2.1

The issue is that Diablo has had so many clones, most of which aren't bad, that it simply won't be good enough to release a typical Blizzard sequel. Admittedly I'd play the game no matter what. I love Diablo to death. I think the game had me addicted for years. I can still play for days.

[Xero]

In all seriousness I am curious what issues you guys feel need patching?  I havn't had the stuck issue I had in beta with the retail version yet, and even if I do they added a /stuck command that takes you to the entrance again.  Graphics run smooth, stations are a little laggy but again, nothing like beta was. The biggest bug I've seen is with the engineer class and their robot minion eating weapons.  So I'm obviously missing something? I have a lvl 12 blademaster and a lvl 14 marksman atm and my friend has a 23 engineer so I'm pretty sure we would have seen any major bugs by now right I think.

Oh and on the monthly fee thing...wtf?  Yea they have one or two things they coulda gave away instead of charging for (character slots being the biggie in my opinion) but lets face it, you get the game same as the singe player to play through for free with friends. Same items, same drop rates, same classes. So what if they wanna charge for extra content they create as extras, I'm willing to bet they need that just to cover the what....4 yearish development time? Not including things like server fees you can play free on? I really don't see it being alot different than guild wars honestly. You can say its not worth it right now...and you're probably right. When they pump out a few new crazy weapon and armor graphics and even a new class or two (yep new classes) then yea it'll be damn well worth it. instead of playing your $30-$40 whateven guild wars expansions here you pay a monthly fee. To some its worth it, others can play the free online game and its still a fun game.

[scottws]

Oh and on the monthly fee thing...wtf?  Yea they have one or two things they coulda gave away instead of charging for (character slots being the biggie in my opinion) but lets face it, you get the game same as the singe player to play through for free with friends. Same items, same drop rates, same classes. So what if they wanna charge for extra content they create as extras, I'm willing to bet they need that just to cover the what....4 yearish development time? Not including things like server fees you can play free on? I really don't see it being alot different than guild wars honestly. You can say its not worth it right now...and you're probably right. When they pump out a few new crazy weapon and armor graphics and even a new class or two (yep new classes) then yea it'll be damn well worth it. instead of playing your $30-$40 whateven guild wars expansions here you pay a monthly fee. To some its worth it, others can play the free online game and its still a fun game.

I will be honest and say I don't know much about Hellgate, so maybe I shouldn't respond here, but I feel like the issue is that Blizzard never charged extra to play on its servers, Blizzard doesn't charge extra because of their long development cycles.  To be honest, the only games that have historically been pay-to-play are most MMOGs, with a few games making an attempt at purchasing micro upgrades (horse armor).

It rubs people the wrong way.  It seems... whorish.