Topic: Gears 2 to have violence filter

[Pugnate]

I'm getting lost here.  No one is suggesting that people bought 8 million 8800 GTs at that time to get faster Excel displays, right?  We can all agree that the only thing driving such sales would be bleeding-edge games, with a minute percentage directed at odd applications, such as science or fancy audio processing.  OK, so maybe Crysis wasn't the only such game.  What are the others, new at that time, which would require such graphics power?  How many copies did they sell?  That's a real question, not some rhetorical debate tactic.

Edit:  It also occurs to me that this is the best-case scenario for the proponents of a moral majority of PC gamers.  It doesn't take into account anything but NVidia 8800 numbers.  We are excluding equivalent ATi Radeons and users making do with older graphics cards.

To answer your question, there was nothing else remotely close. Also, yes this is certainly the best case scenario.

Very true. I think Crytek made a mistake in generalizing that most (if not all) PC gamers are the Nvidia users.

hmmm... I think he was saying that aside from the 8 million 8800 owners, there were tons of other high end video card owners, making the market even bigger.

I didn't buy my 8800 just for it, but it sure as hell came in handy. So to say more people should be buying Crysis because they have fast cards isn't totally truthful.

Sure, but it does counter the argument that Crysis sold poorly because not enough of the market owned high end video cards.

Look, I am not saying that everyone who bought an 8800 series or better card, bought it for the sole purpose of playing Crysis. But I am just sharing these facts because we've all seen the arguments that most gamers didn't have such video cards. Turns out they did, with Nvidia making record profits... leaving a lot of developers like Chris Taylor very upset... but these games were still selling poorly... yet being torrented up to hell. I myself have seen guys on the Anandtech and Tom's Hardware boards claim they buy the $600 cards as initial investments for a lifetime of free games.

If I bought an 8800 right now, it would be to help that game run better, not because I even remotely give a shit about Crysis,

You guys are different, in that you aren't shallow or nuts. You know 3Dmark was downloaded a gajillion times last year right? Multiple times more than any game? Why is that? Unlike you, many of these guys are graphic whores. They want to see what their hardware is capable of. The average gamer, I have found, isn't nearly as well rounded as the lot of us.

Also, here is a little poll I did on Anandtech. Again, I am not saying it is hard evidence or anything bla bla bla:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=80&threadid=2233276&enterthread=y

From that poll, out of the 96 that had high end video cards, 14 did not play Crysis on their PC, while 82 PLAYED it. The poll will probably hit a few thousand votes at some point, and it will be interesting to look at the percentage.

Still, I want to make it clear that I find it completely unfair and false to say that Crysis is the reason for the high sales of the 8800, especially if what you are getting at is that no other game pushes a system like it does.

Well, that's not something I am sure of either. I can't say I completely believe that Crysis pushed the sales of the 8800 cards. However what I do believe is the following:

If there are 8 million 8800 series video cards out there alone, with even another two million of other high end brands, why is it that when the majority of those 10 million video card owners played Crysis, the game sold only 1.5 million pieces?

Of course the problem with that is most of you don't believe the majority of high end video card owners played Crysis.

I'll start that poll at five or six other video card forums later. I know it can't be taken as evidence, but it will still be fun.

[scottws]

I'm sorry Pug, but you are arguing from the perspective that Anandtech polls somehow represent the majority of gamers.  Just like you can't assume the PC gamers here at OW.net are representative of the market, you can't say that Anandtech users are either.  I mean do all 10 million high-end videocard owners frequent the Anandtech graphics card forums?   Even 10% of that number of people?  No.  You are jumping to conclusions to much with very little evidence at all.  You're bolded part alone... where are you getting the numbers that say that over 5 million people have admitted to playing Crysis?  Sorry, but I completely reject all of your arguments because you really have nothing to base them on other than the fact that something like 10 million nVidia 8800-series cards (and their ATi equivalent) were sold and a few polls on Anandtech show a bunch of Anandtech users pirate games.

[Quemaqua]

Note also that somebody who simply wants to see what their graphics card can do isn't necessarily going to shell out money for it.  If all I wanted was something of a benchmark, I'd probably torrent a game just to see it run on my system as well, not pay good money for it.  Just a side note.  I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, Pug, I just don't think there's any good way to qualify it.  There are too many unknowns.  I don't think anybody's trying to say that Crysis shouldn't have sold better, just that there's no way to really figure out why it didn't sell better (also ignoring the fact that it sold a lot of copies... if you're going over the million mark, you're doing very well for yourself - by comparison, The Darkness for 360 and PS3 didn't sell nearly that well).

[Pugnate]

Obviously there is nothing near a smoking gun for something like this (and I don't have the funding to find one ), but rather facts that you can interpret to reach your own conclusions.

Something else which I find telling is that even if by conservative estimates, there are ten million high end video card users out there, the best selling PC games sell in the millions, while best selling 360 games sell in the tens of millions. Remember, as of December 2007, the 360 unit sales were estimated to be at 15 million (Currently they are at 20), and its top games dwarfed the best selling PC games (again not counting The Sims and Wow). I mean if these PC gamers must have been buying something right? Fine, forget Crysis... Where is our success story?

Obviously this is all speculation. I don't have hard evid... never mind hard, I don't have any evidence to support this. But I just find my conclusion logical.

Oh and you guys might find this interesting. Another time, when the developers of Relic were on GFW radio, one of them mentioned that while they had no hard evidence of piracy, they did state hat while their Company of Heroes game had sold nearly two million copies, its patches had been downloaded nearly 20 million times. He said the biggest percentage of patch downloads came from Asia... heh.

I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, Pug, I just don't think there's any good way to qualify it.  There are too many unknowns.  I don't think anybody's trying to say that Crysis shouldn't have sold better, just that there's no way to really figure out why it didn't sell better (also ignoring the fact that it sold a lot of copies... if you're going over the million mark, you're doing very well for yourself - by comparison, The Darkness for 360 and PS3 didn't sell nearly that well).

Yes, of course, there are too many unknowns.

Also I just checked. COD4 PC outsold the PS3 version in 2007, and yes 1.5 million is definitely Crysis doing very well.

[MysterD]

Ripten decided to contact Epic's Mark Rein of Epic Games, asking him what he thought of piracy and no Gears 2 PC.

He sites his own reasons as to why there is no plans for Gears 2 for the PC.
All of those quotes from Mark below will be thrown in BOLD.

I asked Mark to respond to the statements made by his designer, stating “Your lead designer has been quoted saying that piracy is the main concern”, to which he responded:

    "The reason we decided not to develop Gears 2 for PC was so that we could focus our resources on making Gears 2 the best possible Xbox 360 game it could be rather than splitting them across multiple platforms like we did with the first one. I think Gears 2 will be a better game for it and that this was the right decision.

Mark’s response makes no mention of piracy as a deterrent in the game’s creation for the PC, and by not doing so it almost directly contradicts it as the motive. Taking Mark at his word, it is still hard pill to swallow for PC gamers.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with Cliff’s savvy consumer analogy, you can hardly disagree that piracy adversely effects the bottom line of digitally distributed media creators. Some may argue both points as rubbish, and it would be their right to do so, but I can understand the logic behind both.

Finally, I asked Mark about the piracy concern in general on PC’s and if he and the PCGA had any plans to deal with the concern in the future, to which he responded:

    “This issue is something we’re looking at as a group …”

He then added that I would be better served contacting the group’s Intel representative for further insight into their plans, which I fully intend to do. There was a time not long ago when piracy was a major concern for consoles, but due to technology advances, that has become less of a mainstream problem. Here’s to hoping a solution is arrived upon for the PC sooner rather than later.

[idolminds]

"Where is our success story? Uh...minus WoW and The Sims, the two highest selling games on ANY platform."


I think the Wikipedia list of best selling games is interesting, and you can draw some conclusions from it.

"Tens of millions" is quite rare, unless you're Nintendo. 16 of the top 20 highest selling non-packin games are Nintendo games, and 5 of those are Pokemon. 18 of the top 20 broke 10 million.

I don't know how complete this list is, but going off it 30 games out of 526 broke 1 million in sales on the 360. Half of those are sequels.

Crysis had a lot of competition on release. Crysis, UT3, and CoD4 all released within days of each other, with Quake Wars and Orange Box coming out a month before. I mean, that has to impact sales. Not to mention PC games rarely have the same kind of advertising budget as big name console games. I never once saw a Crysis commercial but I sure as shit saw that Gears of War "Mad World" spot two dozen times at least. And I don't even watch TV outside of like 3 shows.

The patch thing from Relic is interesting, though its hard to make a real call on it. Most people have high speed internet so they don't back up patches to apply again, they'd rather redownload them. Downloads also fail or become corrupt, forcing a redownload. Not saying its not telling that a lot of pirates are grabbing the patch, but the actual number would be hard to pin down.

Heres something interesting, and slightly related. Story. This guy took the average review score of 1281 PS2 games (released in North America) and plotted them on a chart vs how many copies they each sold. Take a look at the charts and ignore the scores part of it for a second, and just look at the sales. It is densely packed on the left side of the graph, well under even the 1 million mark. Now look at the scores. Its not all shit and shovelware, lots of games with high ratings sold "poorly." Or at least poorly compared to the likes of GTA and other such blockbuster games.

Seems to me that if you can push out the next blockbuster, consoles are the way to go. You'll sell millions. Yet for the vast majority of games the sales are about the same, console or PC.

*Sees Ds post*
Thats an odd excuse. Is Mark Rein saying Gears was always developed as a 360 and PC release? I call bullshit. The game was obviously built for 360 first and foremost. There was no "splitting them across multiple platforms".

[MysterD]

*Sees Ds post*

Thats an odd excuse. Is Mark Rein saying Gears was always developed as a 360 and PC release? I call bullshit. The game was obviously built for 360 first and foremost. There was no "splitting them across multiple platforms".

I would NOT be surprised if Gears was being planned for both 360 and PC at the same time at was for a bit being worked on as such, but then suddenly M$ threw money their way and said, "360 version first, please" and Epic said, "Money talks" -- like what happened w/ say Halo and KOTOR. Can anyone confirm or deny this??

Though, Reins response also speaks of "Damn Cliffy B is shooting his mouth, so I gotta' make the politically correct PR move here."

[scottws]

*Sees Ds post*
Thats an odd excuse. Is Mark Rein saying Gears was always developed as a 360 and PC release? I call bullshit. The game was obviously built for 360 first and foremost. There was no "splitting them across multiple platforms".

I imagine it was a PR move in order to smooth over some of the ruffled feathers, just as D said.

[idolminds]

I know. I just hate bullshit excuses.

[MysterD]

With the way things are going, I doubt this'll happen...
...But wouldn't all of this be very ironic, if Epic announces sometime in the future Gears 2 PC port -- whether Epic ports it or some 3rd party does! LOL.

Now only would it be ironic, but that might piss off some console-only gamers...

[Quemaqua]

I say we burn them all in effigy.

 ... shit, I already said that once tonight.  I... uh... I guess I'm out of ideas.

[Pugnate]

"Where is our success story? Uh...minus WoW and The Sims, the two highest selling games on ANY platform."

Oh come on. You know we are discussing games targeted at high end users. And you simply can't count The Sims, because core gamers aren't the ones playing that and buying the expansions. The people who are are too scared to even try and torrent it, or EA would have DRMed that title up its ass too.

I think the Wikipedia list of best selling games is interesting, and you can draw some conclusions from it.

Yes, the 10 million was a deliberate exaggeration on my part, and yes the PC has had some heavy hitters, but our current batters aren't look very good.

Crysis had a lot of competition on release. Crysis, UT3, and CoD4 all released within days of each other, with Quake Wars and Orange Box coming out a month before. I mean, that has to impact sales. Not to mention PC games rarely have the same kind of advertising budget as big name console games. I never once saw a Crysis commercial but I sure as shit saw that Gears of War "Mad World" spot two dozen times at least. And I don't even watch TV outside of like 3 shows.

UT3 and Quake Wars competition? Combined, their sales didn't exceed 300,000. And The Orange Box was out a month earlier, and wasn't a muscle game anyway. 

Also the exact same competition existed on the consoles, except more, and each of the games sold better.

Look, all I am saying is that we just know about the 8 million 8800 series cards sold. Who knows how many more were sold from ATi, and other better ones from Nvidia. If you compare the games versus high end video card base percentage versus the games versus next gen console percentage, you find a fair difference.

The patch thing from Relic is interesting, though its hard to make a real call on it. Most people have high speed internet so they don't back up patches to apply again, they'd rather redownload them. Downloads also fail or become corrupt, forcing a redownload. Not saying its not telling that a lot of pirates are grabbing the patch, but the actual number would be hard to pin down.

I agree with that of course, but I remember Shawn Elliot asking him about the patch downloads, and the Relic guy mentioned unique ip addresses. Surely not all 20 million were pirates, but even if it was couple million, it was a significant number.

It is densely packed on the left side of the graph, well under even the 1 million mark. Now look at the scores. Its not all shit and shovelware, lots of games with high ratings sold "poorly." Or at least poorly compared to the likes of GTA and other such blockbuster games.

Why are you comparing the games on the bottom of that list, to the games on top of the PC list?

Our best selling PC title of recent times, The Orange Box, sold 2 million.

Obviously we can go on with this forever. Like you guys said, all I can do is speculate.

I know. I just hate bullshit excuses.

haha well Epic are in a fix. When CliffyB is honest, we call him names. When Mark Rein tries to be diplomatic, we call him names. I think these people are fast realizing that there is no point in saying anything at all.

For the record, I do think Rein is an ass.

[idolminds]

Why are you comparing the games on the bottom of that list, to the games on top of the PC list?

Our best selling PC title of recent times, The Orange Box, sold 2 million.

I was trying to point out that the super high selling games are more of an anomaly than the norm, regardless of platform. The PC gets singled out for "low sales" when in reality the majority of console games will have similar sales.

As for Epic...I think PC gamers just feel slighted. Epic is now friends with the rich kid in high school so they don't want to hang with us anymore, but we've been friends since 2nd grade. Plus they want to put the blame on the gamers, except UT3 and Gears were half-assed games suffering from a variety of problems that weren't ever truly fixed.

[MysterD]

About patch downloading, I will often DL a patch for a game that I don't even own yet (if it's easily available to everyone) -- especially if it's a huge-sized patch. And even more especially true if I have plans to buy the game very soon.

I don't know how many of y'all roll like that, but I know I do.

[Xessive]

About patch downloading, I will often DL a patch for a game that I don't even own yet (if it's easily available to everyone) -- especially if it's a huge-sized patch. And even more especially true if I have plans to buy the game very soon.

I don't know how many of y'all roll like that, but I know I do.

I do that too if it's a game I anticipate I will get. For example I got the Quake point release patch (approx. 270mb) before I actually got Quake 4. I keep a "patches" folder containing all patches I've downloaded (unless they're outdated or superceded) for just such an occasion when I want to reinstall I won't have to redownload everything.

[MysterD]

Yeah, I keep a extra folder for all my game back-ups in folders and stuff, all sorted nice and neatly.

When I'm done with a game and am gonna uninstall it, I often will burn an extra CD with all my patches, DLC, saved game files, map packs, SDK, or any other extras that have been released for it.

[MysterD]

GameSpy have already their hands already on Gears 2 for the X360.
They have their impressions on the SP portion of the game which they did finish, basically.
2 pages worth on it

Spiffy
Impressive environments; improved dialogue and story; sweet new weapons; better achievement system and collectibles.

Iffy
Still plays and feels a lot like the first Gears; occasional visual glitches.

We recently had a chance to play through Gears of War 2's entire single-player campaign (yes, you read that correctly) at an event in San Francisco, and we found it to be an intense, enjoyable experience that improved upon the first game in a number of ways. Before we get into the oh-so-gory details, we should preface things by noting that Gears 2 feels a lot like the first game, so much so that there will inevitably be complaints that it could be called Gears of War 1.5. To those people we say: Quit your whining! Complaining about another 12 to 15 hours of hot Gears action is like complaining about having too much money in your wallet or that your suitors are bringing you too many bouquets of flowers.

[MysterD]

Cliffy B is saying that many game designers don't get the respect they deserve.

October 13, 2008

Bleszinski: Industry Doesn't Properly Value Visionaries

Bleszinski: Industry Doesn't Properly Value Visionaries The games industry doesn't always properly recognize the contributions of individual influential developers, Epic Games design director Cliff Bleszinski told Gamasutra during a recent interview.

"I don't think the industry values visionaries as much as it could. I really don't," said Bleszinksi, who recently completed work on Gears of War 2. His comments came as part of a more extensive discussion set to appear on Gamasutra at a later date.

The designer compared the games industry's attitude towards creative talent to that of the film industry. "As sad as it is, you're only as good as your last game, in many ways," he said. "In Hollywood, at least, you get movie jail for like a year, and you're out, and you get to try and make another good movie. In games, you screw up once, and no one ever wants to hear from you again. It's pretty sad."

Bleszinkski singled out a few designer examples -- admittedly ones more recognized than most. "Look at a guy like Ken Levine or [Peter] Molyneux or Chris Taylor or [Hideo] Kojima. I mean, we all need to celebrate these people," he said.

While Bleszinksi was sure to state that game development is a heavily-collaborative process, he noted that other creative industries more willing to acknowledge individual creators gain associated marketing benefits.

He pointed to his current role as executive producer on the upcoming Gears of War film as having given him more perspective on the distinctions between the two industries. "It's a very structured, yet organic, process in Hollywood," he said, "where in games it's still the Wild Wild West in some ways right now."

"It absolutely is very much a team effort, and I'm nothing without the 100-plus people who worked on Gears," he acknowledged, "but if I can go out there and evangelize the game and help sell the vision of it, that's a very useful thing, and we're all able to put gas in our gas tanks as a result of it, right?"

POSTED: 01.53AM PST, 10/13/08 - Chris Remo

[scottws]

Fuck this guy.  Every time he speaks now, I hate him even more.

[MysterD]

I'm trying to figure out who's worse.
Me or Cliffy B....

[Quemaqua]

He's just getting irritating now.  I don't know exactly what it is.

[Pugnate]

Fuck this guy.  Every time he speaks now, I hate him even more.

Hey, I will not sit quietly while you demean D in this way!


*stands up*


OK, continue.

[Xessive]

Hey, I will not sit quietly while you demean D in this way!


*stands up*


OK, continue.

HAhaha

Cliffy's gas reference "...and we're all able to put gas in our gas tanks as a result of it, right?" really makes hime look like even more of a prick. If he had said something about "putting food on the table" I would have felt more empathetic.

What the Hell happened to this guy? I used to be such a huge fan of his work! His UT maps were exquisite!

[MysterD]

Cliffy thinks he's a gaming development rock star now, I think. His ego went to his head.

[MysterD]

Speaking of Cliffy B and big egos, SIX-page interview with the guy

[MysterD]

9.5 from IGN
Video review
Written review

5 stars from GameSpy
GameSpy review

[iPPi]

Midnight release -- while I will definitely be getting this game... I won't be getting it at midnight. 

WotLK however, is a different story. 

[MysterD]

9.0 from GameSpot
Video review
Written review

[gpw11]

I want this for PC....damn.

I also recently bought a wireless 360 pad for my PC.  I tried the original for a bit with it, and I think it actually might be better with a controller.  I'll probably do another playthrough with the pad soon.

[MysterD]

Oh, man -- I'd really like to see GoW2 come to the PC.

It'd be really funny after all the shit Cliffy B talked about PC gaming and piracy, the powers that be at Epic (that are above Cliffy) decided to have a team port GoW2 to the PC. Wouldn't that be irony.

[PyroMenace]

Enough of the Cliffy B shit talk. Lets wait till he makes something shitty before we go down that road.

Anyway, Im thinking of picking this up this month. The game is looking amazing.

[Quemaqua]

I don't deny his talent as a game creator, I just think he's kind of an asshole.  I always thought he was kind of an asshole, he just didn't really piss me off personally until more recently.

Ultimately I was pretty disappointed with the first Gears.  I thought it was a super fun game that utterly dropped the ball on the fiction of what was actually a fairly decent concept that had some potential depth to it, despite being the usual marines vs. aliens setup.  I'm hoping they manage to do some cooler stuff with Gears 2, but at the same time, I'm just not very excited.  I'm sure I'll end up playing it at some point, though.  At least as long as my 360 isn't dying.  But I think it kind of is.

[Pugnate]

Yea I am probably in the internet gaming community minority when I say this, but I really can't see anything said by Cliffy as quite so outrageous.

He probably does seem like an asshole to some of you, but it must be frustrating to put years of hardwork into something and just watch people download it for free. Those people are the real assholes.

I can imagine it now. What if I wrote a book that I worked for years on, and then saw it being downloaded freely, with bootleg copies sold in Asia openly. That wouldn't just make me angry, but sad as well. I can imagine it being a lot worse as a game designer. A book is something I could have written on the side without risking my day job, but had I developed a game, I would have had to risk a lot of money, with the livelihood of many depending on it.

Yes, Cliffy is making a fine living, and yes UT3 and GoWPCs problems can't be blamed on piracy, but other developers aren't nearly as lucky. Just watching his peers struggle must be frustrating for Cliffy.

Also, I agree, that GoW turned pretty disappointing half-way through.

[Xessive]

All creators have the right to protect their creations and innovations. No argument there. It is a real piss-off when people rip-off your shit. As an artist/designer I go through that too.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the core of what Cliffy's saying, rather the way he says it and his poor choice of words. If he were a bit more diplomatic I doubt it would have come off as bad or offensive. Did he really have to go off calling PC gamers pirates as a whole? No, he could have just ended with something like "it's a shame that rampany piracy is saturating the PC market." And no one would have really argued.

[scottws]

Yeah, and he's acting like the poor sales of UT3 and GoW PC are solely due to piracy.  Open up your eyes Cliffy!  I've said it a million times and I'll keep saying it:  UT3 was a rehash of a rehash of a rehash in a now niche market segment (twitch shooters) and GoW PC suffers from major performance problems, showstopping bugs at the time of release, complete lack of support, not to mention it came out long after it had run its course on the 360 where it was extremely successful.  IMO, those are the primary reasons that they both sold poorly, not piracy.

I don't even care if he's right as a whole.  He's such as asshole for labeling me and all of my PC-gaming compatriots that I'll never purchase (or download) one of his games ever again.  Fuck him.

[Xessive]

Yeah, and he's acting like the poor sales of UT3 and GoW PC are solely due to piracy.  Open up your eyes Cliffy!  I've said it a million times and I'll keep saying it:  UT3 was a rehash of a rehash of a rehash in a now niche market segment (twitch shooters) and GoW PC suffers from major performance problems, showstopping bugs at the time of release, complete lack of support, not to mention it came out long after it had run its course on the 360 where it was extremely successful.  IMO, those are the primary reasons that they both sold poorly, not piracy.

I don't even care if he's right as a whole.  He's such as asshole for labeling me and all of my PC-gaming compatriots that I'll never purchase (or download) one of his games ever again.  Fuck him.

I think you're absolutely right about that. There were too many issues overshadowing those titles.

I know classic UT was around much earlier, but piracy was still an issue back in 1999-2002. It had no DRM whatsoever, not even CD check, yet its annual sales record was still impressive. So much so that they released the GOTY edition the following year as well as a Totally Unreal anthology after that (including Unreal Gold, UT GOTY, and some bonus discs). Why did people buy it? Great game, great price, great support.

[Quemaqua]

Xessive and Scott both said it perfectly.  It isn't really the core of what he's saying, it's that he's got the wrong attitude and he's being an arrogant ass instead of taking the time to look at the poor job his company has done handling certain things.  The Gears PC port is like something that would have come out of a former incarnation of Capcom, you know?  It's just broken and crappy, and this used to be a PC developer, whose entire success was built upon the backs of PC supporters who made them what they are.  And now we'r'e being shunned, and told what horrible pirates we are when they give us a broken game and indicated to us with not only Cliffy's latest words, but with their past actions prior to anything he said that they just don't care enough about us to put any effort in.

Certainly understand the frustrations, believe me.  I hate piracy and it infuriates me.  At the same time, they've handled it in exactly the wrong way and come at it from exactly the wrong perspective, which is just plain disappointing.  I played Epic games all the way back to Jill of the Jungle, Jazz Jackrabbit, and One Must Fall.  To see a great company make this turn is just plain disappointing.

[KontrollerX]

Don't know if you guys got a chance to play GOW 2 yet but it is certifiably the greatest videogame I have ever played in my life.

And I was a harsh critic of the first one just so everyone knows if that means anything. 

Yeah though every 360 or PC owner needs to buy this game as soon as they are able.

Its so epic, so violent, so graphically superior...

I could praise this game all day its so good.

Seriously.

Its awesome!!!

[scottws]

There is no PC version of GoW2.  Haven't you been reading this thread?  LOL

[Pugnate]

lolzzz it is teh epic!