Author Topic: Demigod Thread  (Read 13338 times)

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #40 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 11:19:20 AM »
Frankly, I don't understand the piracy related to online activity.  Isn't that exactly where piracy can be prevented with a high degree of success?  Proper exclusive credentials should be established before any online benefits can happen at all.  Am I being naive?

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #41 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 11:27:57 AM »
Yea I agree with you. I think the problem was that gamestop broke the street date, and Stardock were left less prepared.

Guys, the game requires a cdkey to go online, right?

Offline Xessive

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #42 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 11:40:44 AM »
I think Stardock are tackling the piracy issue in the most elegant way a company can. They're ensuring that only the legitimate players can update and connect to the official servers and not penalizing them at the same time. I really don't care what the reviews say I might pick this up just to show support for Stardock; end of the day it's gonna be a fun a game anyway.

I was just imagining if the servers were an actual place, like an island with ~140,000 residents: 18,000 legitimate homeowners and 120,000 flithy, smelly, scurvy-ridden pirates and sea-whores! AAAArrrRRRRAAaa HA HARR!!! Lots and lots of sea-whores!! ;D

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #43 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 12:11:44 PM »
Well one of the problems was the game, no matter what version, was checking to see if it was up to date at startup. So that alone was pounding the servers pretty hard with that many people making that check.

I'm not sure if/how pirated copies can play online. By now they've moved over to different servers and such so unless they can get the patches, they can't get into the server list. At least the official server list.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #44 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 02:34:37 PM »
Well one of the problems was the game, no matter what version, was checking to see if it was up to date at startup. So that alone was pounding the servers pretty hard with that many people making that check.

I'm not sure if/how pirated copies can play online. By now they've moved over to different servers and such so unless they can get the patches, they can't get into the server list. At least the official server list.

So, how does Demigod's servers actually figure out who the pirates are? By what version of the game they're running? Some other things too?

Is there like a CD/DVD/Game Key you have to register over Impulse with Demigod (just so they can track how many are using the key)? Does it do game key checks?

And then do they just cut them right off? B/c really, they should cut them right the hell off anyway possible...

PIRACY has got to stop as it is killing gaming -- even though it probably never will unfortunately...

Offline MysterD

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #45 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 02:43:56 PM »
Quote
Yes, I believe it's a fair review. It's accurate on the date we posted it and it's based on the same version of the game that people are paying money for right now. You might not be aware of this, but we actually implemented an "After the Fact" feature that we use to update reviews as games are being improved (or in some cases, finished) after they arrive in stores. If and when Demigod's current problems get fixed, we'll be sure to add an update to the top of the review stating that, thus giving potential buyers an opportunity to make their decision based on info that's as up-to-date as we can make it.

Oh, and @gaping_maw, you're absolutely right, doing this doesn't get us a lot of "clicks" - but we do it anyway.

Justin Calvert, Section Editor, GameSpot Reviews
How often do GameSpot use their "After The Fact" feature?
Do they change the score w/ this feature? Show the old score and the new score?

I mean, hell -- is GameSpot going to re-review Sacred 2, with all of its new extra content that the owners seem to get with every damn patch they release every month or so?

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #46 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 03:02:02 PM »
Update from IRC:

CURRENT STATUS: Servers are being added to the pool.  We have brought down the Demigod clusters to add this capacity and to troubleshoot earlier issues.  We will let everyone know as soon as they're back up and alive.

---
This went up as I was typing:

 SERVER STATUS: Servers are down for upgrades.  We are expanding capacity.  Current ETA is 7pm EDT

---

I don't want to sound like a fanboy blindly supporting here, even though thats sort of what it looks like. I mean, I understand Gamespots position. If you went out right now and bought the game, this is what you'd have to deal with. That should be mentioned. But they really knocked the score down for that, and this release had some problems that came out of nowhere (Gamestop selling early, which also gave pirates a head start on slamming servers that weren't set up for release, etc). Plus lots of other games have had launch issues and weren't docked so heavily in their score. The lack of singleplayer is funny since Sins also didnt have a campaign yet that won GOTY at a lot of places.

Just seems like people want this game to fail for some reason. I don't get it...its FUN, even just playing a skirmish against AI. I'm totally happy with my purchase, and thats before they get the MP stable and running smooth or the addition of new maps and Demigods (2 new Demigods are already in the works, apparently).

Ok, enough of that. I'm going to talk about the game.

I just ran a SP match. 3v3, I was Regulus (dude with the crossbow). One tip to learn early on: Even though items are separated into Helms, chest piece, boots, gloves, rings, etc, the slots they go into are generic. You can fill all 5 slots with helms if you wanted. The "armor type" is more to classify what bonuses they give. Helms are mana, chest is armor/health, boots are speed, gloves are weapon damage, and rings are for misc stuff and abilities. So if you need mana, buy a helm or two.

Anyway, I was playing Regulus. Hes pretty cool since he can snipe long distances. The further the bullet travels, the more damage it will do.

His other ability has him sprout wings and cause more damage per regular shot + splash damage to surrounding enemies. Perfect for taking out the enemy reinforcements. Each shot costs mana, though so you eventually run out. That is unless you buy a couple helms that give +11 mana regen and +70% regen and another +35%. These stack, so I was getting some awesome mana regen. In fact, I never ran out and never had to worry about it. Every shot would regen the mana cost before I could fire again. So I was laying waste to the enemy reinforcements and racking up tons of XP.

With all the XP I was able to upgrade a lot of abilities. I eventually got enough range where I could attack towers without them being able to hit me, so it was cake to take them out. I got an ability that "marks" units so if they run away into the fog of war I could still see them. Couple that with a high power snipe, I was taking out enemy Demigods like crazy. They would come in to fight, take AoE damage from my neverending Angelic Fury and my reinforcements, when their health got too low they would run back to base. I'd let them run a little ways then snipe for 500-800 damage, which usually killed them. That gave me tons of gold and XP so I was a powerhouse by the end.

Eventually I backed off the front line to go back to base and buy stuff (no one was killing me to send me back automatically). I had so much cash I bought 3 levels of reinforcement upgrades in one go. The match was over soon after as towers fell quickly.

It is such a fun game. Each Demigod plays differently, and even different builds play differently. I think its better so far to concentrate on fewer skills that you level deeper into the tree than it is to spread yourself thin and try get them all.


Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #48 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 03:33:22 PM »
Another quote from IRC:
<@kwindisc0429a> We didn't expect to have to put together an MMO type backend for an RTS. lol

The topic also changed to say they are doubling their capacity.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #49 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 03:41:15 PM »
Quote from: Idol
Just seems like people want this game to fail for some reason. I don't get it...its FUN, even just playing a skirmish against AI. I'm totally happy with my purchase, and thats before they get the MP stable and running smooth or the addition of new maps and Demigods (2 new Demigods are already in the works, apparently)
Any idea when those new additions might be coming...?

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #50 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 04:59:06 PM »
Re: pug's earlier comment about piracy expectations:

I figured the lack of DRM would keep a fair number of people who usually pirate due to DRM from doing so, and figured also that this game wasn't big enough to make a crap ton of people want to download it straight off.  I mean, GPG are known, but this game wasn't hugely advertised and you didn't see a ton of buzz about it everywhere.  It wasn't the new big-name FPS or what have you.  I was expecting a bunch of people to pirate it, but not 120k on day one.

Been thinking about the game all day, can't wait to play some tonight.  Unfortunately, I have to spend 90% of my night moving boxes to the new place.  Ugh.

EDIT - I didn't even see the last page of posts.  Whoops!  Yeah, I love how different all the guys are, and it's cool how you can use gear to achieve different ends or to make up for weaknesses.  The Unclean Beast has abilities that use his health to damage others.  Normally you'd want to use those fairly sparingly, but if you buy the right gear with super high regen or maybe some life leach, all of a sudden you're a psychotic nightmare.  Each Demigod seems to have various builds that make a lot of sense.  It's hard to figure them out if you're just jumping into the game and sort of spending money as you get it, but the more you play and realize what everything does (the gear selection especially, since that's all the same regardless of which Demigod you choose), the more you get those little "oh snap, I totally know what I have to buy/upgrade now!" moments.

As for the server issues... this isn't really an educated statement because I'm a moron and I can't remember all the specifics, but I believe the trouble was that their servers were essentially routing everything and setting up matches, but then everything becomes peer-to-peer.  I don't know how pirated copies interact with their servers, so I can't say much about that, but I know they made specific changes to keep pirated copies from doing as much damage as they had been, and they switched the default in-game IRC channel (it uses IRC for chat) to something else so that pirates were using a different channel from registered folks.

EDIT x2 - Just got a couple matches in before having to go to the house.  Damn, so fun.  You guys really should pick this up.
« Last Edit: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 06:45:47 PM by Quemaqua »

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #51 on: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 11:30:40 PM »
Que and I just played through 2 matches. The first match we played on Crucible. I was Regulus (angel with a crossbow) and Que played Torchbearer (Fire/Ice magic dude). Enemies were Unclean Beast and the Necromancer. The map is fairly linear, with one single path to each home base. The middle area has 3 flags to fight over, with one giving 2 gold mines and access to the Artifact shop.

So we push back and forth, capturing and recapturing flags as we try to dent the enemy towers. Soon as you take a few out your reinforcements can move deeper into enemy territory, pushing the enemy back away from your stuff and those central flags. One cheap item to buy in the home shop are teleport scrolls. With these you can teleport to any structure your team controls, so towers and flags. So if you can drop the frontline towers and keep the enemy from capping flags it will take them that much longer to get back into the fight (since they can't teleport in).

Eventually we maxed out our reinforcements at the Citadel, bringing out the "wrecking crew" of Catapultasaurus and Giants. We steamrolled 'em after that.

Our second game was on a different map (forget the name). We chose the same dudes, this time vs Rook and Queen of Thorns. We still won, but it was a little tougher this time (I thought). The Rook is a beast when hes upgraded his shoulder mounted weapons. Luckily I kept pushing up one side of the map and eventually captured on of the enemy reinforcement spawners, so we basically had our own reinforcements spawning in their base. Que took care of the other side of the map and even the middle. He was totally kicking ass.

I took a shot of the scoreboard at the end of the second map. You can see me with the angel wings, Que in front casting some badass ring of fire, the remains of the Rook right in front of us, and the enemy destroyed Citadel to the right.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #52 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 12:37:31 AM »
I then tried to take TB onto the single player tournament on hard and promptly got demolished by basically everything.  Gonna' need some more work to figure him out.

Love this game.  Can't wait 'till some more OWnet folks get it so we can play and stuff.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #53 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 01:02:30 AM »
I have to laugh at some peoples complaints.

"DotA has 93 heroes and Demigod only has 8!"
Thats an actual figure. I wonder how unique they could make 93 heroes, how how the hell you balance that many.

This one I just have to copy the whole thing:
Quote
Another 24? till monday? are you guys gona work thru the weekend to try and get it going?

or should i go ahead and sucker some noob on ebay into paying me 30$ now cause it wont be fixed anytime soon?

yes i am playing , but i bought the game on monday its now friday(3am but still friday) and i have only been able to play 20games online.

I played over 300 for dow2 my first week, yet i can even hit 100 in demigod cause of broken MP coding.
300 games in the first week? Did he like...sleep at any point?

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #54 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 05:57:45 AM »
Sitting on the official chat is either encouraging when you see people talking about strategies and how great the game is, or annoying as hell when some 12 year old gets on there claiming to know how to write better netcode.  Fucking stupid people in the world.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #55 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 06:13:44 AM »
Quote
or annoying as hell when some 12 year old gets on there claiming to know how to write better netcode

hehe...

Imagine if it was the opposite... some old timer showed up, "Back in my daaaaaay."

Damn, that's what we'll be in a few years.

Shit! I just realized I'll be around 50 when Diablo 5 comes!!!  :(

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #56 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 06:38:50 AM »
Haha.  Yes, we all need to purchase really good old-man internet sticks to hit the young'uns with.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #57 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 11:09:02 AM »
Wardell again, clarifying some stats.

Quote
1. The 18,000 figure is the # of concurrent users at the peak. On the Steam stats page, for instance, you can see the peak concurrent users on titles that talk to Steam:
Quote from: Steam
Current Players Peak Today Game

81,543 90,824 Counter-Strike: Source
57,343 68,662 Counter-Strike
18,788 23,755 Football Manager 2009
14,577 15,606 Empire: Total War
14,394 16,430 Left 4 Dead
11,860 14,030 Team Fortress 2
So just above Empire Total War in terms of peak connections (game just launched so it's not a surprise).

#2
The infrastructure was designed to handle up to 50,000 of these connections.

But on day 0, there were around 140,000 concurrent users of which 18,000 are validated.

Pirated users can't get updates or play multiplayer but they still touch the servers.

So over the first 24 hours, we had to essentially scrap together a doppleganger of the infrastructure dedicated to Demigod's multiplayer network needs, release an update to legitimate users to point them to it.

The result was that in the first day, day and a half, users couldn't connect to each other (the connection servers would time out) and even the in game experience was horrible getting through menus and such because even a simple HTTP keep alive call (something as simple as a http call to check for the latest version to inform users if there's a new version) would cause the in game UI to hang.

The consequence is two-fold: First, early customers got a TERRRIBLE experience. Second, the reviews (notably Gamespot) based their review on this terrible experience.

Now today, day 3, it's pretty much taken care of. Users are connecting in multiplayer, the servers are pretty responsive and we're adding more in preparation for the weekend.

If there's any IT people here, they can probably better explain than I can what we've had to do essentially. It's not like we keep a room full of unused servers so the challenge of putting together a duplicate series of servers in 24 hours PLUS Stardock and GPG having to produce an update to the game to point to those servers was quite an undertaking.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #58 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 11:28:07 AM »
If this doesn't regain Gamespot its anal reputation, nothing will.

Stardock's biggest mistake was not to buy a multimillion dollar level of advertising on Gamespot.
« Last Edit: Friday, April 17, 2009, 01:51:25 PM by Pugnate »

Offline Xessive

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #59 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 01:08:58 PM »
I've pretty much given up on Gamespot. I like Van Ord, for the most his opinion generally agrees with mine, but lately he's been off.

I'm waiting for Giantbomb to review Demigod just to compare and contrast.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #60 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 01:55:43 PM »
1UP review

Gives it a "highly-recommended C" and plans to re-review it once the multiplayer stabilizes.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #61 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 05:33:14 PM »
I've actually hated Gamespot since a little before the mass exodus.  I think Van Ord is an idiot, mostly for his review of Dawn of Mana which I couldn't possibly disagree with more.  He didn't piss me off quite so bad after that, but he generally annoys me with little things and I think he misses the boat on a lot of stuff.  I like some of the dudes who went to Giant Bomb, though I still hate reading almost anything Gerstmann writes.

Not also for 1UP that the average rating from editors and users is A, and user average is 7.8 at GSpot (where you've still got a bunch of jackasses who wrote negative user reviews on day one, etc.).

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #62 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 09:17:59 PM »

Offline Xessive

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #63 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 09:37:10 PM »
I can understand people being frustrated with the bugs on day 1, I mean we've all had squabbles with games that are released in what seems to be "work in progress" status, but in the case of Demigod the bugs are not significant enough to judge the entire life cycle of the game! It is by no means substandard, it is a quality product. The bugs will be resolved soon via updates anyway. It's no excuse for people to go berserk trashing the game.

The only valid complaint is the lack of content, which will apparently be addressed as well.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #64 on: Friday, April 17, 2009, 09:39:41 PM »
Oddly enough, I'm not bugged by the relative lack of maps.  I really like these maps and enjoy playing all of them in all the different modes, which is something I can't say for most RTS games.  I tend to like maybe half the maps and not like the others much or at all.  And a lot of them tend to be pretty samey... these feel quite different since the physical layout actually seems to matter more here.

Just a sidenote.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #65 on: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 01:02:48 AM »
Oddly enough, I'm not bugged by the relative lack of maps.  I really like these maps and enjoy playing all of them in all the different modes, which is something I can't say for most RTS games.  I tend to like maybe half the maps and not like the others much or at all.  And a lot of them tend to be pretty samey... these feel quite different since the physical layout actually seems to matter more here.

Just a sidenote.
A worthwhile note. It says a lot about the impressive quality of the maps, few as they are.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #66 on: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 05:28:52 AM »
Man, Wardell just keeps updating us with all kinds of interesting info. And he sounds like he's also playing it a lot online with people, too. Man, I wish more CEO's would talk like this guy does and give us all kinds of insight on things and what they plan to do to fix stuff. He's really one of a kind in today's world of CEO's, I must say.

Wardell and Gas Powered, just keep pumpin' away at fixing the issues like you've been...

Quote
The only valid complaint is the lack of content, which will apparently be addressed as well.
We know there will be new maps and Demigods -- I just hope it's free, since there seems to be only 8 maps and no SP campaign. I'm sure adding new maps and new Demigods will go a long way with people who already bought the game and are lookin' for more content, since there seems to be a lack thereof...

Quote
Now, while the reviews are likely to have a pretty serious impact on sales, it does not affect our plans to continue to release updates and enhancements to the game nor does it affect our plans to release additional free Demigods.
Awesome @ (some) new Demigods will be free. That's excellent news! :)

Quote
[00:51] <TorchedGeek> Frogboy, I know you've got alot on your plate right now, but are you/GPG expecting to release an SDK for Demigod in the future?
[00:53] <@Frogboy> I expect there to be modding.
[00:53] <@Frogboy> Depends on sales which influences budget.
If GPG and Stardock can drop some sort of SDK or some sort of map maker/editor (given what Idol and Que said about this using Max), that would really blow the roof off. We'd all never have to worry about lack of maps or content, if they do that. I sure hope they do it. I'm sure there's a boomin' mod community waitin' for such a release -- especially since this really is a MP-focused kind of game.

Quote from: Wardell on issues
3. Pantheon games.  Right now, the system is excessively biased for new players – it wants to include AI players as cannon fodder.  While this is fine and dandy for new players, once you know what you’re doing, having AI players in the game is incredibly annoying.  So next week we’re going to change it so that if you have played a few games, it will wean the player off of AI players until you only play humans online. Same for Skirmish.
Cool.

Quote
I’ve seen a lot of news articles this week and a lot of confusion about what occurred this week. The issue isn’t terribly complicated.

Ars Technica had a good article that describes what happened.  But still, a lot of people seem to think warez users are able to play multiplayer games. No, they can’t.  Even the retail box has a serial # in it that users have to use and be validated to play online.
That's good to hear that they can't get onto Stardock's servers to play MP side of things -- especially since this game was built really for MP.

Quote
What brought down servers was a lot more benign than that.  It was the HTTPS requests to inform users if there was a new version along with checking the community features for info (friends lists, chat channels, etc.) and things like that.  Things like that are pretty piddly. It’s only when you get a ton of users doing that at the same time that it becomes a problem as we saw.

But here’s the thing: While piracy is annoying, you can’t blame piracy for this problem. Let’s face it, there’s plenty of data out there about how many pirated games are being played. We should have looked at that.  We assumed since Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations, both of which sold extremely well and got great reviews, that the # of pirated copies of Demigod in use would probably be in the same ballpark, maybe twice as much.  But had we looked at what other publishers have said, we would have known that it’s not unusual for there to be hundreds of thousands of warez copies in use.

And if we had, we could have simply had the retail version not have any HTTP calls in it and instead just had an update button on the main menu to check for updates and voila, problem solved.
I always liked the idea of not being forced to update -- that if I want to update, I make the call to the server to check if there is one -- a la what NWN2 does.

Though, I do like to be alerted if there is an update out there.

Quote
The second misconception is the argument that because Demigod’s retail version is heavily pirated that it costs massive sales. But that, again, puts the blame on the wrong parties.  If you want to talk about the horrible multiplayer experience on launch day, well, that’s our fault because of what I said above.  If you want to say that the horrible day 1 multiplayer experience resulted in negative game reviews which will seriously damage the game’s sales then I say again, that’s our fault too because of what I said above OR we could have just sent out the review copies on release day (Tuesday) and reviewers wouldn’t have had it until Thursday by which point the problem had largely been resolved and the review scores would have been fine. But in either case, it’s still our fault.
What other CEO you know would take all the blame for the product, despite all of the excuses (i.e. GameStop releasing the game early, game pirated to holy hell) he could've used to blame for all the madness surrounding this game?

Offline MysterD

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #67 on: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 01:52:32 PM »
« Last Edit: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 02:50:08 PM by Quemaqua »

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #68 on: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 02:50:45 PM »
Sorry D, I'm cutting the quotes.  It doesn't seem like it needs a thread of its own, but this is a Demigod thread, and that didn't really have anything to do with the game.  So it seems appropriate to leave it here, but it doesn't need to headline.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #69 on: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 02:58:34 PM »
Heres a short video I took of the ending of a match Que and I just played. Nothing major, you can just see us kick ass.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #70 on: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 03:09:48 PM »
My axe-swinging hand was starting to hurt from pushing it into people's faces.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #71 on: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 03:42:55 PM »
Heres a short video I took of the ending of a match Que and I just played. Nothing major, you can just see us kick ass.
That vid was awesome, Idol...

EDIT:
Sorry D, I'm cutting the quotes.  It doesn't seem like it needs a thread of its own, but this is a Demigod thread, and that didn't really have anything to do with the game.  So it seems appropriate to leave it here, but it doesn't need to headline.

Fair enough.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #72 on: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 04:03:36 PM »
There is a lot of "hidden strategy" in this game. Things that seem like a good idea, but unless played at the right time can backfire.

For example, on the larger maps there are extra portals to capture. Capturing them gives you more reinforcements. Sounds like a no-brainer to cap, right? Wrong! At least, not at first. Basic reinforcements are pretty weak, their main use is to build XP for the demigods. So during the first half of the game if you cap those flags you're basically handing your enemy more XP. Its better to have your enemies cap them and you farm the dudes that come out of the portals. Once you've leveled up sufficiently and upgraded your reinforcements, then you go grab the portal and pour on the hurt.

Speaking of upgraded enforcements, you have to watch that as well. The first upgrade are priests that heal you and your troops. Useful, yes but early on they are another form of XP for the enemy. Even with the healing they provide your creeps go down fast. Its better to save that gold and buy several ranks of troops at once. Priest, Angels, Catapults, and Giants. At least the first 2 at once, and the more the better.

Man, I'm loving this game.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #73 on: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 04:49:25 PM »
Yeah, I'm learning all the nuances now that I'm playing on Hard mode.  It's really sink or swim, so I'm finding new ways to deal with problems.

But yes, like idol I'm absolutely loving the game.  It's actually not all tactics, which is surprising.  Like idol said already there are things you have to think about.  Like in the game I just played, my team were at levels 16, 15, 14, and 13, and the enemy team were at 18, 19, and two 20s.  But even though they utterly outleveled us, this was a "fortress" map variant, in which the objective is to destroy several fortresses scattered around the map while protecting your own.  Even though by the end of it they were kicking our asses, we had 3 fortresses at nearly full health and they only had two at about half.  We owned all the spawning platforms (which is why they leveled up so fast), so the tide of guys just wasn't enough for them to deal with despite being the superior force.  We weighed them down under sheer numbers.  I was playing as the Oak, who has an ability that lets him go apeshit for a couple seconds after being "killed", and I used this three times to deal massive damage to the foremost fortress.  They couldn't do shit about it, and by then I threw my last bit of money into spawning giants, and the tide of the army was simply too much for them.

The game definitely has a focus on tactics in some ways, but it's not in a spammy RTS kind of way.  You don't control each and every unit, so you have to think globally in some ways, and tactically in others.  I was doing good on the strategy part and winning games regularly on Normal, but on Hard I realized quickly that superior tactics from the AI were making short work of me every time.  I had to learn when to use abilities that would interrupt the other demigods, I had to learn how to make good use of teleport scrolls to get quickly around the map, and I had to learn how to balance speed boosts with health and mana boosts, and figure out how to manage an inventory of items like health and mana pots, etc.  It sounds simple enough, but finding the right dynamic isn't necessarily so easy.  You have to get a feel for the ebb and flow of the game and the way different demigods move and do damage.  A little thing like 10% extra speed can be the difference between a guy getting away or you hammering him to death as he flees, giving you massive gold and XP.  "Almost" never cuts it here.

The game is fantastic.  I honestly don't feel the lack of maps at all now that I'm playing the other modes more.  A game of fortress is *really* different from a game of domination, and those are both completely different from conquest.  You have to know how to play each game type.  They really don't play the same.  Tactically, yes, your basic tactics will remain sound, but what you do, how you move, how you defend... these change drastically.  And these modes change based on the map, too.  A game of fortress on the medium-sized Exile map plays nothing at all like a game of fortress on the small Crucible map, and even the small Crucible map doesn't play like the small Prison map.  These are good maps, so don't let the small numbers fool you.

You guys should totally pick this up.  Idol and I used GameRanger to connect earlier and had good reliable speeds and no disconnects.  Until Stardock gets the network issues sorted, it seems to be a perfect solution.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline idolminds

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #74 on: Monday, April 20, 2009, 01:08:36 PM »
Monday update from Wardell!

Even he loves GameRanger.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #75 on: Monday, April 20, 2009, 02:28:43 PM »
Quote from: Wardell
Now right now, Demigod, as a game, is awesome.  Demigod, as an on-line service, however, sucks ass.
Geez, now that's pretty blunt -- especially coming from a CEO talking about something his company published...

Offline Xessive

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #76 on: Monday, April 20, 2009, 03:03:55 PM »
Geez, now that's pretty blunt -- especially coming from a CEO talking about something his company published...
He's calling it as it is, you gotta respect that. He's backing that with the promise that it will be resolved too, so here's hoping.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #77 on: Monday, April 20, 2009, 03:41:48 PM »
He's calling it as it is, you gotta respect that. He's backing that with the promise that it will be resolved too, so here's hoping.
Agreed 100%

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Demigod goes gold! Releases April 14th
« Reply #78 on: Monday, April 20, 2009, 05:57:06 PM »
And that's being overly harsh.  Plenty of people are doing fine now, it's just that there's stuff that's still imperfect for a certain demographic, and this needs to be addressed.  But they're hardly the first company to go through this, they're just getting it worse than most because of the initial breakdown.  That kept them from getting closer to fixing the current problems because they had more immediate issues to deal with.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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