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Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: idolminds on Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 10:22:56 AM

Title: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 10:22:56 AM
According to slickdeals (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=238945&t=620876).

Orange Box and Quake Wars will both be $37.99 for the week they are released (thats next week). I'll be picking up Orange Box for sure...I hate having miss out on QW.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 12:07:03 PM
*shrugs my shoulders*
Since I already own HL2 and HL2 Ep One....
I can wait for The Orange Box to drop further in price.

As for Quake Wars, eh....I'll wait for it to be cheaper...
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 12:52:05 PM
For a moment I thought it was a deal where both were for $38 together haha.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 12:58:07 PM
For a moment I thought it was a deal where both were for $38 together haha.

Now, THAT DEAL is one I would jump on! :)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 05:48:47 PM
I wish I had money.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 06:50:21 PM
Yep, glad I didn't plunk down on a pre-order for ET:QW.  I knew something like this would happen.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 09:12:35 PM
I saw an actual ad from Valve on TV for The Orange Box.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Saturday, October 06, 2007, 11:04:42 PM
I just saw the ad too.  Portal is way cooler looking than the concept sounds.

Oh, and BTW, ET:QW is $32.90 at Gogamer.com.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 06, 2007, 11:10:07 PM
Portal looks cool enough.  I'm mildly interested in it, but not until I hear how well it actually turned out.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, October 06, 2007, 11:30:06 PM
I'll let you know. I am completely hyped for Portal right now and will be playing it first out of the new games.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, October 07, 2007, 06:35:34 AM
Portal does look pretty cool.

I wonder how long or how short it'll actually be. I don't think we heard a projection of that, in previews, even -- that or I forgot! hehe.

Is it gonna be like a Episode length or something?

Really though -- I wish they were still releasing The Black Box.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 02:56:16 PM
All IGN Reviews in this post

Entire Orange Box
-------------------
Orange Box reviewed by IGN -- with a 9.5. (http://pc.ign.com/articles/825/825992p1.html)

New Games In The Orange Box
---------------------------------------------------
HL2: Ep Two gets a 9.4 (http://pc.ign.com/articles/826/826067p1.html)
Portal gets an 8.2 (http://pc.ign.com/articles/825/825987p1.html)
Team Fortress 2 gets an 8.9 (http://pc.ign.com/articles/826/826080p1.html)


Older Games In The Orange Box
-----------------------------------------
HL2 got a 9.7 (http://pc.ign.com/articles/566/566202p1.html)
HL2: Ep One got a 8.5 (http://pc.ign.com/articles/710/710967p1.html)

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 05:06:00 PM
Orange Box gets a 9.5 from GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/halflife2episode2ob/review.html?sid=6180730&tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: PyroMenace on Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 05:07:11 PM
Awesome, I just got back from picking it up too
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Ghandi on Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 05:26:05 PM
Were you able to price match it?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: PyroMenace on Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 05:33:24 PM
Couldn't find an ad so I just said fuck it.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: PyroMenace on Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 10:56:24 PM
Finished portal, short but damn good. Especially the ending, the ending was just gold. You guys really need to play this.

The cake is a lie!!!!

The only problem is that the portal effect did hell to my system, my framerate gets murdered when I get close to one. I find that odd since in Prey it seemed to be handled just fine.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 05:10:20 AM
Well, two different engines...

I played about 20 minutes of Portal.  It is pretty neat so far.  I would have played longer but it was after 2:00am and I had to get up at 5:15am.  It wasn't too challenging from what I played so far, but still fun.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 08:41:31 AM
I bought it!!!

They had the FULL version of the game (fully legit) as a special promotion in India for $27. I bought it. Release date is Oct 16 though. Yay for me.

Quote
Playing through all three Half-Life 2 games in succession makes Episode One stand out as a relatively weak link.

Seriously, why are people taking this long to figure it out? Ep1 was a disappointment.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 11:53:36 AM
Finished portal, short but damn good. Especially the ending, the ending was just gold. You guys really need to play this.

The cake is a lie!!!!

The only problem is that the portal effect did hell to my system, my framerate gets murdered when I get close to one. I find that odd since in Prey it seemed to be handled just fine.

That sounds like the problems my NVidia FX (5th-gen) has with Shader 2.0 (and up).  There must be some effect getting mishandled, and hopefully a driver update will fix it eventually.

I wonder how this would play on the 360.  HL-2 runs fine on my PC, but I imagine the expansions need more power.  Plus I won't deal with Steam at all.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 01:08:11 PM
I just read the IGN review and then the Gamespot review. How the hell is that IGN writer employed, is beyond me completely. I think maybe 40% of that review is relevant while the rest is fluff. The review looks like it wasn't edited at all, doesn't get to the point, and is totally disorganized. The sentences are too long, filled with double negatives and a lot of thoughts and observations that just seem unnecessary. Reading the review doesn't make me want to play the game in the least, partially because it doesn't tell me anything.

The gamespot review is far better. In fact I am pretty sure I'll have a better idea of Ep2 after one of you plays and talks about it.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 01:56:55 PM
Seriously, why are people taking this long to figure it out? Ep1 was a disappointment.
It was basically a repeat/rehash of HL2: Episode Zero, but w/out the vehicles. There was nothing really much new, except for a little bit of story and Alyx tagging w/ you for just about the entire time.

Hell, in Ep 1, even some of the same sniper and physics puzzles were repeated from HL2: Episode Zero.

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 02:31:13 PM
I was so intensely bored and annoyed with ep1, that even its ridiculously short five hours felt like fifty. They took ages to make the first episode, and did a piss poor job. They gave no answers to the questions asked previously, told very little in terms of story, and the gameplay felt like it was going backwards. The worst of it was the annoying sound effects. It is extremely annoying to hear the same effects from a game developed in 1998.

What was worse was to see IGN, Gamespot and PCG give Ep1 glowing reviews. Interesting how only after Ep2 turns out to be a quality title, that those very writers are pointing out the weaknesses of Ep1.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 02:45:18 PM
Valve paid 'em all off. :P
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 04:32:14 PM
I seem to recall a discussion about hype corrupting review scores, somewhere around here.   Some game having to do with saints, or, something.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 07:25:34 PM
I think it's a load of bullshit that they're even "reviewing" a pack of games in the first place.  That infuriates me.  You don't review a fucking pack of games, especially not the way GSpot is doing it with the awards and stuff.  It's entirely nonsensical and I'll say it again: Gerstmann needs to go.

Journalism my ass.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 07:59:25 PM
I think it's a load of bullshit that they're even "reviewing" a pack of games in the first place.  That infuriates me.  You don't review a fucking pack of games, especially not the way GSpot is doing it with the awards and stuff.  It's entirely nonsensical and I'll say it again: Gerstmann needs to go.

Journalism my ass.

I think IGN reviewed it in the right way.

They reviewed each game separately and scored that.
Then, they scored it as a compilation, too.

EDIT:
GameSpy did the same thing IGN did, as well.

GameSpot dropped the ball, reviewing it as a total pack only. They forgot to review each game, individually.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Jedi on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 09:55:56 PM
I think IGN reviewed it in the right way.

They reviewed each game separately and scored that.
Then, they scored it as a compilation, too.

EDIT:
GameSpy did the same thing IGN did, as well.

GameSpot dropped the ball, reviewing it as a total pack only. They forgot to review each game, individually.

I agree with D, it makes sense the way IGN did it.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, October 12, 2007, 12:35:44 AM
Yea while I really disliked the actual review of Ep2, I thought the review made a lot of sense.

Gspot's method didn't... what next? You take a gold edition and review every expansion and every mod?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 12, 2007, 01:56:27 PM
Yea while I really disliked the actual review of Ep2, I thought the review made a lot of sense.

Gspot's method didn't... what next? You take a gold edition and review every expansion and every mod?

I'm waiting for G-Spot to review all of Sam & Max Season 1 in its "Season 1 Retail Box" now. :P
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, October 12, 2007, 04:29:18 PM
I think it's a load of bullshit that they're even "reviewing" a pack of games in the first place.  That infuriates me.  You don't review a fucking pack of games, especially not the way GSpot is doing it with the awards and stuff.  It's entirely nonsensical and I'll say it again: Gerstmann needs to go.

Journalism my ass.

How would you do it then?  It has to be done somehow.  People are going to want to know what to expect if they spend the money on it.  I don't know a thing past the original game myself.  Are you saying that each game and expansion should get its own independent review?  That would work for me, if they're all presented together.

The quality of the reviewer is another thing.  I don't know who to trust anymore.  What I've seen out of Gamespot recently has made me lose a lot of confidence.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 10:18:02 AM
I am so pissed at this install process right now. Valve is going to get a nice letter over it.

*UPDATE*

Just so you have some idea: I started installing the games at 9pm last night. It is now 1:30pm the next day, and they are now installed. Now they need to update.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 11:35:13 AM
I got it off of Steam.  What's the retail box like?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 12:13:47 PM
Its one of those "double" sized DVD cases, the plastic is that neon hunter orange. Inside are two DVDs to install the games, and a single sheet of paper. One side has one registration key plus install instructions. The other side has the basic keybinds for the games. Thats it.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 12:14:36 PM
I'll post pics when I get mine. I've asked the seller to send me the activation codes while I wait.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 01:49:23 PM
Its one of those "double" sized DVD cases, the plastic is that neon hunter orange. Inside are two DVDs to install the games, and a single sheet of paper. One side has one registration key plus install instructions. The other side has the basic keybinds for the games. Thats it.
I meant the install process, sorry.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 02:08:44 PM
Well, theres whats supposed to happen and then what happened to me, I suppose.

You toss the disc in, run setup. Window pops up, what do you want to do, click install.

Steam starts (or the steam installer starts if its not already installed). You're presented with a window to type in the CD key. That registers, another window asks which of the games you want to install. Last night I selected all of them (I had uninstalled HL2/EP1 before, but kinda want to replay them. Plus EP1 is required for me to play the updated Minerva mod). Then Steam is supposed to create the cache files. This step happens even when you download directly from Steam. This is the step that hated me, because it just never finished after 14 hours. I had to go back and install one by one and it eventually worked. Then instead of downloading everything it pulled data off the DVDs, and now the games are installed...but still updating.

God damn, its only been 3 days since launch, whats been updated? How much is left to download? Why won't steam tell me this shit? Like Portal, it jumped to 85% complete and I'm thinking "Oh, small update...cool, I'll be playing in 5 minutes." Nope, these last 15% has been downloading for about 3 hours now. Still have 2% to go.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 04:51:15 PM
This is why I hate Steam from a non-ideological standpoint.  Even though I don't like online distribution (or at least the way Steam does it), I also think the program is just fucking horrific.  I've had nothing but trouble every time I used it, from HL2 to The Ship.  Something always goes wrong, takes too long, whatever... and I'm far from the only one.  Wasn't it Ghandi who was having a bitch of a time getting Quake 2 just like a few days ago?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 04:59:18 PM
I will say this right now. Keeping in mind the problems I had installing and how aggravated it made me, I still dont have EP2 and TF2 updated yet so I haven't touched them.

Portal was completely 100% worth it. No joke, must play, amazing.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 05:02:07 PM
So I've heard, and I have to say... it's tempting.  Because for something to be that fucking short yet that amazingly good, it really must be amazingly good.  I'm curious, but I just can't justify dropping $20 on it, and I don't want the OBox.  So I'm out of luck until the price drops.

EDIT - I wonder how many years that's going to take, though.  It isn't available in retail, and prices stay high with digital distribution (yet another shitty aspect of it) because they have no product that they have to move.  It's there - buy it or don't, it doesn't bother them overmuch because they're getting the cash from users worldwide and none of it takes up shelf space.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 05:12:22 PM
Well, to Valves credit they do drop prices. Episode 1 debuted at $20 and can now be bought for $10. Or theres always the retail box that should drop in price quickly-ish. I'm sure GoGamer will have it for $20-25 in a few months.

But seriously, you'll love it. Even the $20 by itself...I probably would be ok with that, believe it or not. I just beat story mode, theres individual challenges to beat now. Fun fun.

As for questions about length, according to Steam I beat it in 2.5 hours. Check out my cool stats (http://steamcommunity.com/id/idolminds/stats/Portal).

I do want to warn anyone interested in this game: try to avoid spoilers online as much as possible. I did and I am so glad I did. Not that it would completely ruin it, but the surprise is really great. Also, do not download the ending theme song thats going around. Its a million times better after playing the game.

Also, the cake is a lie.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 07:31:10 PM
I hate you for making me even consider it.  No, seriously.  Hate.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 08:03:06 PM
Its one of those "double" sized DVD cases, the plastic is that neon hunter orange. Inside are two DVDs to install the games, and a single sheet of paper. One side has one registration key plus install instructions. The other side has the basic keybinds for the games. Thats it.

This is one of the reasons I dislike the concept of digitial distribution as far as major releases go, or it could even be just Valve.  I bought HL2 and it had shit all in the box.  I figure it's because they don't put anything else in the box because they want you to go the digital route so they can get a bigger slice of the pie.  I'd guess we'd have to see the actual contract agreement between valve and the publisher to see if the publisher is allowed to put anything else in the box or not, but that's another issue all together.  The fact that they're distributing it digitally for only a few dollars less kind of works them into a corner where they CAN'T put anything extra in the box or else it not only steals the digital revenue, but it actually cheapens the content of the game to a certain extent.

With little arcade games like popcap games and things like that it's different, you don't want or need anything else then the actual content.  But fuck, Orange Box is a huge release, where's our Blizzard level of extra content in the packaging?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 09:33:45 PM
Yeah, the retail box is nothing more than "install from disc instead of download" package. Its really cheap. Of course, thats expected...have you seen the cover art. Wait...its not even cover art, its just a cover. I've seen budget titles with better covers. Fuck.

I'm going to look, I'm sure someone has made a better one to print.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 10:30:44 PM
Valve probably does want a bare minimum on their retail-game packages so they don't feel they screw over The Steam buyer b/c the Steam buyer wouldn't have a hard copies of manuals and documentation printed for them you'd have to print it yourself. W/ the retail buyer not getting a manual or anything of much, the Steam user won't feel cheated for buying the Steam version. Also, they probably do this to make the gamer opt possibly for the Steam version of the game, since the Retail Box won't have anything of much in it -- especially if the Steam version is cheaper than the Retail Box, which sometimes happens.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, October 13, 2007, 11:40:36 PM
Well, theres whats supposed to happen and then what happened to me, I suppose.

You toss the disc in, run setup. Window pops up, what do you want to do, click install.

Steam starts (or the steam installer starts if its not already installed). You're presented with a window to type in the CD key. That registers, another window asks which of the games you want to install. Last night I selected all of them (I had uninstalled HL2/EP1 before, but kinda want to replay them. Plus EP1 is required for me to play the updated Minerva mod). Then Steam is supposed to create the cache files. This step happens even when you download directly from Steam. This is the step that hated me, because it just never finished after 14 hours. I had to go back and install one by one and it eventually worked. Then instead of downloading everything it pulled data off the DVDs, and now the games are installed...but still updating.

God damn, its only been 3 days since launch, whats been updated? How much is left to download? Why won't steam tell me this shit? Like Portal, it jumped to 85% complete and I'm thinking "Oh, small update...cool, I'll be playing in 5 minutes." Nope, these last 15% has been downloading for about 3 hours now. Still have 2% to go.

Where does ideology even enter the picture?  Never in a million fucking years will I put up with that shit.  You're talking about a product you buy in a box, from a store.  You're describing an inept method of delivering the whole thing to you online.  The saddest part is that intelligent, veteran gamers bend over and take it anyway.  The unwashed masses don't stand a chance.  I'm pissing in the wind, and I know it.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, October 14, 2007, 12:50:32 AM
I know, its still bullshit, and I'm still writing them about my horrible experience. I mean, reinstalling from my backups is easier. Drag and drop gfc files to the steamapps directory. Done. Why arent the retail installers doing the exact same thing? They are in some funky format and the installer has to create the files before it can "fill" the files? Huh?

Especially seeing that Steam is its own copy protection. Who cares if the files on disc are not encrypted when you need to have that one-time use CD key tied to your account to play the games anyway? Its not like games where you install it on your PC and your buddies PC and you both play. Whoever has the CD key gets to play, and its non-transferable.

Also:
(http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20071012.jpg)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, October 14, 2007, 06:53:17 AM
LOL @ that comic
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, October 15, 2007, 02:47:05 PM
Haha!  Took me a bit to understand what was happening in that 1st frame.   ;D
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, October 15, 2007, 11:13:49 PM
Portal?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: PyroMenace on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 04:12:40 PM
Hey Que, wanna play Portal but can't justify the purchase? Why play the flash version (http://www.addictinggames.com/portalflashversion.html) of course. It doesn't have the humor charm that the actual game has but its actually cleverly done here.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 06:10:00 PM
That's actually quite awesome.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 06:24:27 PM
After finishing Episode 2, it is very easy for me to say Portal was a far far better singleplayer game. Valve reuses the same battle setups from HL2 and EP1 (Your way is blocked...oh look, enemies!), tells little to nothing new of the "story", and overall it felt like more of the same.

Portal was at least fresh and its story, while still keeping its own secrets, was much cooler. I want Portal 2 far more than Episode 3. Lets hope they don't tie one to the other.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 06:32:27 PM
After finishing Episode 2, it is very easy for me to say Portal was a far far better singleplayer game. Valve reuses the same battle setups from HL2 and EP1 (Your way is blocked...oh look, enemies!), tells little to nothing new of the "story", and overall it felt like more of the same.

Portal was at least fresh and its story, while still keeping its own secrets, was much cooler. I want Portal 2 far more than Episode 3. Lets hope they don't tie one to the other.

I think they were planning the Portal Gun to be in Episode 3....
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 06:53:14 PM
This Flash game is hysterical.  I just got myself into an infinite portal loop that I can't get out of because I fell down a floor and came out a wall right back into the first hole... and I can't break it.  AWESOME!
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 08:49:11 PM
So I'm backing up my files now that its all updated, and I'll probably remove EP2 because...eh, I don't plan on replaying it again for a while. Hooray for steams retarded "backup the entire game" backup system, now I get to burn several DVDs instead of just a single CD with the updates.

This is progress?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 08:51:20 PM
This Flash game is hysterical.  I just got myself into an infinite portal loop that I can't get out of because I fell down a floor and came out a wall right back into the first hole... and I can't break it.  AWESOME!

That's too sweet, man!

I'm guessing this was NOT planned, heh!
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 05:55:10 PM
I finally got to play some TF2, and its mad fun. I, like many, questioned some of the changes..removal of grenades, medics cant infect the other team, etc. But I have to hand it to them, this is just pure fun. I dont miss the grenades at all. It really streamlines the classes and sets them in their roles.

I spent the majority of my time as a medic this time. While playing I didn't care that I couldnt infect, but what I could do was good stuff. Healing people, duh. I like that they added responses to being healed. Battles are too fast for someone to type back (and I dont have my mic going so not sure if they talk it) and say thanks, but even with it just being an automated thing it makes medics feel like less of the "thankless job" class. The Ubercharge thing is neat. Can take a long time to charge and if you die you lose it all, but then you let loose a 10 second invulnerability so you and your target can tear shit up. Cool.

Plus while healing a target if they kill someone you get credit for the assis and points. I was actually in the top half of the scoreboard the entire game and I only directly killed one guy.

I didnt get any revenge kills yet. When you get killed, the game zooms up and freezes the action on the person that just killed you. If you manage to kill them later it counts as a revenge kill and nets extra points.

Have to learn the map layouts and what to do. Most of the maps are capture point style, and only 2Fort is CTF. Lots of twists and turns, but plenty of arrows and such to point you in the right direction. But I just latched onto a heavy and followed him around.

So yeah, overall good stuff. Though I did have problems finding a server to play on. It seems a lot of servers are forcing a rate command to a level far higher than I can use on dialup (3500 default, these servers were 12000-22000). So...that sucks ass. Had to try like 10 servers before I found one I could play on. Valve needs to either a) make them knock that shit off or b) show more info on servers. If I could sort those out of my list it would be so much better.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 05:58:33 PM
How many maps does it have?  Remakes of old popular stuff in there, or is it all new?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 06:04:10 PM
Lets see, I think 6 maps. Theres some classics like 2Fort, some new ones, and some classics that have been radically updated (zomg thats Well?)

And of course Valve is planning more maps. Plus theres several community made maps in the wild already.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 06:50:17 PM
Good they're planning more.  To me, maps are what make a multiplayer FPS like this.  One of the huuuge reasons I hate CS.  My Quake 2 days were at their peak when I had probably over 40 maps running on my little home server.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 07:41:26 PM
So yeah, now I've figured out the mystery of why nearly every Valve game is unplayable online for me. Servers are setting minimum rate to broadband levels, which is flooding me, causing my ping to skyrocket, and then the auto-kick for ping scripts kick in and I'm done for.

Shit.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: sirean_syan on Thursday, October 18, 2007, 11:44:54 PM
On a whim tonight I bought just portal over STEAM tonight and played through in a single sitting... now that was a great little game. I don't even want another game, I just want that thing to keep talking. I know we were all expecting something quirky, but I really don't think anyone expected anything this entertaining. It also struck me as kind of artsy in it's approach to things, which wasn't really expected. Again, I was expecting something a little experimental, but not quite so purposely constructed.

Shoot, that might have been the best game I played all year. Granted, I haven't played a lot, but that's quite the gem. It's not too deep or anything, but it doesn't try to be. It's just one of those games that are pretty near perfect in their own little way.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Friday, October 19, 2007, 12:45:02 PM
I too bought the Orange Box.  I haven't played Peggle Extreme yet.  I don't even know what it is.  I also haven't played TF2.  But I did play and beat HL2:E1, HL2:E2, and Portal.  To be completely honest of those three, HL2:E1 was my favorite.

I know everyone knocks HL2 for lack of story and essentially being a string of gimmicks, but it's still a really fun game in an interesting setting.  I'm constantly wow-ed by how well put-together the game is.  The textures are, for the most part, amazing.  The engine is solid and the game really does a good job integrating the physics as one of the core aspects of the game.  The voice acting is pretty good and the facial animations are practically unmatched.  The weapons feel pretty wimpy, but I still find the HL2 gameplay extremely satisfying.

And, no offense, but I find that accusing HL2 of being gimmicky and lauding Portal is one of the most hypocritical things I've ever heard in my life.  The entire Portal game is a gimmick.  That's not to say it's a bad game.  It's not.  It's a really good game, which goes to show you there is nothing wrong with a game being gimmicky.

HL2 justifiably gets a bad rap for the story.  But I never understood the gameplay complaints.  I haven't been as entralled with a game since Majora's Mask.  I called in sick for two days so I could finish HL2, which I did in three days.  I have never called in sick for a game since GTAIII.  I beat EP1 and EP2 in two sittings each, respectively.

I think they were planning the Portal Gun to be in Episode 3....
This sounds pretty likely, given the ending of HL2:EP2.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Friday, October 19, 2007, 01:10:31 PM
I think HL2s gameplay is fine, its just some of the pacing and situations are odd/reused too much.

Did you notice the "monster closets" in EP2? There was one place in particular where I was saw just an empty room with a door that zombies came out of. Just had to chuckle since Doom 3 was totally slammed for that.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, October 19, 2007, 02:11:17 PM
I agree with all of what scott said, but I sort of agree with none of it at the same time.  HL2 *was* fun, and there's no denying that it's a great game.  My problem had nothing to do with the gimmicks.  I mean, the only reason I ever referred to them as gimmicks at all was because of the way they were placed in the game, not because of what they *were*.  The variety in gameplay was very much appreciated and was really refreshing... at least, initially.  As you'd get to a new area you'd always have something fresh, and that was great!  The problem was that you'd then spend the next few hours doing nothing but that "fresh" thing they introduced, and it would veeery, very quickly become stale, redundant, and boring as fuck.  If you took what HL2 is gameplay-wise and tossed it into a big bowl and mixed it up, it would be awesome.  Don't introduce mechanics, overuse them, then abandon them.  IMO, that's bad design and nothing more.

The world is fun, I enjoy the art design (it's sort of slightly generic yet really unique in its little touches at the same time, and it works great in the end), and the production values are sky high.  That's all great stuff.  But there's the aforementioned no-story-whatsoever-problem, and it had the most boring and fucking plastic characters of any game ever (rendering all the amazing voicework and facial animation completely ineffectual).  Seriously, most characters in games interest me even if not terribly well done, but for the first time possibly ever I found myself literally just wanting to shoot them in the face... not because I hated them, but because I was so utterly indifferent to their stupid, whiny, poorly-presented situation that I just wanted to kill them so they'd shut up and I could get on with it.  And all the fucking Gordan-worshiping was the cheesiest and lamest crap I've ever heard, even in context of the original game's story.  Just stupid.  So you take those two and combine them with the aforementioned gameplay-chunks that had you doing the same shit over and over until they threw something new at you... and you have my complaints, plain and simple.

That doesn't mean the game isn't great, and I fully acknowledge all that HL2 did right (can't speak for the episodes because I've no interest in them and haven't tried them), and I even acknowledged that HL2 was a better *game* than Doom 3.  The difference?  For me, Doom 3 was a better experience.  I was just running around shooting stuff, but that was the point, and there was decent enemy variety, great atmosphere, and fun level design.  So while I know full well it wasn't nearly as good a game as HL2, the specific problems with HL2 really hit my sore spots, where Doom 3 didn't.  Doom 3's story was really pretty lame all things considered, but it was still world's better than HL2 simply because HL2 *didn't have one*... and even Doom 3's lame characters were more convincing than those of HL2 simply because they fit the world and were consistent.  It *felt* like a cheesy horror movie with tons of gore and atmosphere and characters who were waiting around to die, and that's basically what it was.  HL2 *felt* like a sprawling epic of gameplay, story, and design... but the fact that it sort of botched the first one via bad pacing and forgot to include the second one somehow, I just couldn't bring myself to truly like it.  I tried to play through it a 2nd time and gave up about four hours in.  Despite popular opinion, I *want* to like HL2 (irregardless of my feelings for Steam, etc.).  I just... can't.

Anyway, sorry to go off on a tangent there.  I really just wanted to address what I meant all the times I called HL2 gimmicky.

And I don't think Portal qualifies as gimmicky, either.  It's built around a concept... that's only a "gimmick" if it's shallow or poorly executed.  If it works, it's a design principle.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Friday, October 19, 2007, 03:22:46 PM
I see what you are saying.  HL2 does indeed introduce a concept and then abandon it frequently.  The headcrab monsters, the buggy, the boat, the ant lion pheromone thing, having to move boards and things onto land so you don't step on the ground...  It doesn't really happen in EP1 too much, but it happens again in EP2.  That is definitely a fault.

But I still think the overall experience elevates it well above its failures.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, October 19, 2007, 03:29:16 PM
I'd say so as well.  I've never said anyone had poor taste because they liked HL2.  Like I said, it just personally really hurt the enjoyment of the game for me.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 19, 2007, 06:31:07 PM
I think HL2s gameplay is fine, its just some of the pacing and situations are odd/reused too much.

Did you notice the "monster closets" in EP2? There was one place in particular where I was saw just an empty room with a door that zombies came out of. Just had to chuckle since Doom 3 was totally slammed for that.

I always thought it was cool in the Doom game where monsters just appeared from what seemed to be out of nowhere. But wasn't that Doom's point anyways, since you basically opened the gateway(s) for demons to just teleport their asses into Earth anywhere and anytime they pleased, anyways???

HL Series has always seemed to take elements found straight out of Doom series.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Jedi on Friday, October 19, 2007, 10:00:09 PM
I always thought it was cool in the Doom game where monsters just appeared from what seemed to be out of nowhere. But wasn't that Doom's point anyways, since you basically opened the gateway(s) for demons to just teleport their asses into Earth anywhere and anytime they pleased, anyways???

HL Series has always seemed to take elements found straight out of Doom series.


Yeah I know what you mean, like demons from hell, giant cyborgs with missile launchers for arms and not to forget the floating heads that shot firey balls of death from thier mouths...  wait what? :o
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, October 19, 2007, 10:05:43 PM
Actually, when you get down to it, the original Half-life's story is basically exactly the same as Doom 1.  Facility does experiments, experiments go wrong, accidentally teleport in something terrible, terrible thing overruns station, hero runs through station fighting terrible thing, eventually ends up going over to the other side to fight terrible thing.  Virtually identical.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 19, 2007, 10:20:43 PM
Actually, when you get down to it, the original Half-life's story is basically exactly the same as Doom 1.  Facility does experiments, experiments go wrong, accidentally teleport in something terrible, terrible thing overruns station, hero runs through station fighting terrible thing, eventually ends up going over to the other side to fight terrible thing.  Virtually identical.
Yes, yes, and yes.
Que knew exactly what I was driving at.

Both The Doom Marine and Gordon Freeman NEVER talk many lines of dialogue, either. Barely any, if actually any at all.

Yeah I know what you mean, like demons from hell, not to forget the floating heads that shot firey balls of death from thier mouths...  wait what? :o
Headcrabs leap around and spit venom from their mouths.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, October 20, 2007, 12:57:15 AM
Well I guess the plots are similar... so what? Neither one is particularly original.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Jedi on Saturday, October 20, 2007, 01:33:28 AM
Well I guess the plots are similar... so what? Neither one is particularly original.

In cases like this I like to say... bingo bongo. While I was flippant I was avoiding the above observation.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 20, 2007, 12:02:14 PM
I just like to point that out when people start harping about how original Half-life was, that's all.  It's in the details that both Doom and Half-life really stood out.  Iconic imagery, cool levels, fun gameplay.  Still, I do find it a little amusing that Half-life copied the general story formula almost verbatim.  Most people don't think about it because they just think "aliens != demons" and that's where it stops.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, October 20, 2007, 03:07:10 PM
Yea Im with you that HL wasn't really anything special, hell when I first got it I didn't even play through the game, I got hooked on TFC. What probably rises it above a lot of other FPS games wasnt really so much the plot, but the seamless level progression (aka no actual levels, just loading zones), really cool atmosphere, stunning visuals at the time, and really good AI. It was just one of those cases where everything coalesced together nicely.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, October 20, 2007, 03:21:53 PM
Hell, I still never finished HL1.
Never even began HL: Blue Shift, either.

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 20, 2007, 03:37:42 PM
I actually quite enjoyed HL and the first expansion.  I thought the game was pretty aces... and there was tons of fun multiplayer stuff and mod stuff too (go TFC).  The things HL did that hadn't really been done before were indeed pretty damned cool (there's a sense of excitement there that still hasn't dissipated for me and is why I wanted to like HL2 a hell of a lot more than I did)... it was just when everyone talked about how cool the plot was, I sort of always wanted to say, "Yeah, but isn't it basically just a more modern and mature retelling of Doom?"
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, October 20, 2007, 11:53:24 PM
I went and bought HL1 the day I read the PCG review. The game was apparently masterful, and I had to have it.

I think I played only a few hours before I was extremely bored. It still wasn't the shooter I was waiting for. Uptill that point in time, there hadn't been many shooters I had actually liked, though I had played the shit out of Doom.

But while I enjoyed games like Hexen, Heretic and Doom, I started to get really bored of the shooter scene -- unless it was against some human opponents. In fact every shooter that had been coming out at the time bored me to no end, and I just couldn't understand why shooters couldn't have a strong narrative.

I think HL1 was a step in the right direction. I was always bothered by how shooters broke the immersion by having health packs, weapons and other crap lying around randomly. Valve's move to have appropriately placed health and weapon points in HL1 was an elementary one, yet did wonders for the immersion factor. The AI in the game was quite good, while the role of the NPCs was another step in the right direction. Yet the game bored me. I personally thought it was vastly overrated and while it did a lot of things right, it hadn't done enough for me to get interested in shooters again. The mindless corridor after corridor of baddies had gotten me yawning.

I think along that time came Aliens vs Predator, which I loved for its violence! That game was awesome. Rainbow Six was amazing in its tense game play. Jedi Knight II was pretty awesome, and I simply loved the first Unreal Tournament.

But the shooter I had been wishing for all my life, turned out to be a hybrid, in the form of Deus Ex.

F.E.A.R. was one of those shooters, that I could play for days, even though it was repetitive. The gameplay and A.I. were exceptional.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, October 21, 2007, 12:55:50 AM
I agree that HL1 is vastly overrated.  Great game, and it did a lot of new things, but it still wasn't perfect, and there were some boring stretches and some areas where the narrative just flopped.

Honestly, the first game to impress me in that arena in a long while was The Darkness.  The story there sucked me in and didn't let go.  I loved every second of it.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, October 21, 2007, 06:27:53 AM
But the shooter I had been wishing for all my life, turned out to be a hybrid, in the form of Deus Ex.
Deus is one of the best, if you ask me. It did just about everything right -- especially for a FPS/RPG hybrid.

Quote
F.E.A.R. was one of those shooters, that I could play for days, even though it was repetitive. The gameplay and A.I. were exceptional.
FEAR's AI was so good and does so much differently depending on what you are doing (and the difficulty) you have it on, that the action kept you wanting to play -- regardless of how you often are found in similar environments throughout the game (too many warehouses, Monolith!). The action in the game is outstanding -- some of the best in a FPS ever. With the sound, the enemy AI, and the controls being so damn good, you get some of the most intense firefights put forth in gaming right here.

Plus, the story was so freakin' good and so well-told, it never let go of it. It kept me wanting to play and go forward. Halo PC couldn't even do that for me.

I didn't finish HL1 b/c -- well, I never got by that big-ass boss somewhere in the middle of the game. That huge-ass tenticle thing. After a while, I gave up. Shit, I should try and finish that...I mean, hell -- I do have HL1: Source sitting there doing nothing, untouched (since I did buy the HL2: Collector's Ed which contained that inside).

EDIT:
Looks like the Orange Box sold well on the X360 alone.

This doesn't include how well it sold on the PC, BTW. (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/34973/Valves-Orange-Box-Outsells-Halo-3)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, October 21, 2007, 10:26:29 AM
+1 to that.   ;D  I found it at Circuit City.  2 whole copies there.  No dice at Best Buy, although I did find one copy of Beautiful Katamari there.  (I love those games.)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, October 21, 2007, 06:34:53 PM
Portal quotes!

(click to show/hide)

LAWLZ
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, October 21, 2007, 07:58:27 PM
More Portal quotes!

*do not read until you have played*

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, October 21, 2007, 09:53:18 PM
Portal quotes that beckon you!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 09:21:41 PM
DO NOT buy Orange Box from international retailers.  Valve will make you it's bitch (http://consumerist.com/consumer/drm/valve-deactivating-customers-who-bought-orange-box-internationally-314690.php)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 09:54:32 PM
Amazing.  God I hate those motherfuckers.  More every day.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 09:55:24 PM
DO NOT buy Orange Box from international retailers.  Valve will make you it's bitch (http://consumerist.com/consumer/drm/valve-deactivating-customers-who-bought-orange-box-internationally-314690.php)

Well, that's quite nice of Valve... *sarcasm*
Bastards...

If I happen to see American Version of The Orange Box PC for a reasonable price, maybe -- maybe I'll pick it up...

W/ all that content that box is packing, $30 or less sounds reasonable...since that was what I was looking to spend on The Black Box, upon its release before Valve actually canceled it.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 10:06:56 PM
That sucks, but people actually ordered CD keys from Thailand and didnt expect problems? Sure they were legit keys for that region but still. I wouldn't trust that site as far as I could throw it.

Shitty Valve deactivates the keys, though. They paid for the game and got the game. They even went overseas to get a good deal. Dont like it? Tell the retailers not to ship it overseas. Or...you know, WARN people ahead of time that this will happen.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Ghandi on Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 10:09:14 PM
Apparently taking the garden gnome found at the beginning of Ep2 all the way to the end yields some funny results. (http://www.kfj.f2s.com/index.php/2007-10-15-gnome-quest)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 10:17:18 PM
Shitty Valve deactivates the keys, though. They paid for the game and got the game. They even went overseas to get a good deal. Dont like it? Tell the retailers not to ship it overseas.
Exactly.

Quote
Or...you know, WARN people ahead of time that this will happen.
Exactly.

Now, I wonder if some people will take legal action against Valve here....
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 05:38:09 AM
Keep bending over, folks.  Keep bending over . . .
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 06:40:12 AM
No... I am with Valve on this one.

In countries like India, Thailand, Pakistan etc., the average income of a person is about $200. In Thailand you can actually live very comfortably on a lower income level because things are far cheaper there, but for the average person, paying hundreds of dollar for an operating system, or $50 for a video game, is totally out of the question.

So what happens where there is a huge demand for a commodity that is priced at the levels of a luxury good, yet is cheap to replicate?

Yes you got it, bootlegs.

Five years ago, it was easy to walk into a mall in Thailand or India and pay 50 cents to a dollar for a piece of software that would cost you much more by legal means. And no, it wasn't just because people simply wouldn't pay for a genuine product, but rather more because it was out of their means.

As a kid I remember coming to Pakistan and finding used American computer games being sold for half their retail price, and being sold very quickly.

So when these big software companies approached governments about clamping on piracy, they realized that they had to offer the public an alternative.

Today you can Windows here for $50 and games like Far Cry or the Oranage Box made in India or Thailand etc. for $15. Those games are sold with fine print on the box stating the game is for installation on local machines only, and not for export under any circumstances.

This is really beneficial to people in his part of the world, where $15 or a thousand rupees would be enough to buy food for half a week.

I also completely agree with region codes.

The fact is that the UK has its taxes and that shoots the prices up. It isn't Sony's fault that the PS3 costs ridiculously amounts of money in the UK. Nor is it able to lower the price because of the high cost in production thanks to the blu-ray drive.

If everyone in the UK started buying PS3s from America without worry of region code restrictions, a lot of people in Europe would be out of work.

Quote
Shitty Valve deactivates the keys, though. They paid for the game and got the game. They even went overseas to get a good deal. Dont like it? Tell the retailers not to ship it overseas. Or...you know, WARN people ahead of time that this will happen.

Well it says very clearly on the boxes that the games aren't for use outside of the countries where they were manufactured. The retailers know this.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 07:27:13 AM
So you're happy handing over all control of your gaming to Valve.  It's fine by you to have to ask them permission daily to play what's on your PC, even content that doesn't require an online connection except because they demand it.

This particular situation may have its merits.  Your post made perfect sense.  You know, speeding is against the law, a worse offense than disregarding the money-making wishes of a big company; but would you want the police monitoring your speed online, and telling your engine to shut down whenever they think you're going too fast?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 07:50:02 AM
Well I am not happy with giving them control, but in this case I can see why they took this step. By blocking imports, it is the only way they can sell these titles at local prices. Otherwise they are losing $30 or so, each time so

Another question is what else can they do? Yes they piss a few people off with this, but atleast the news spreads and gamers get the message.

Someone said they could tackle the retailers in these countries directly. The thing is that it isn't the retailers, but rather the people who resell on websites to make a quick buck. And what about the people who bought these games? I am pretty sure they saw the box said "For sale in Thailand only". Maybe they should have tried to return the game?

Initially, I was really pissed off with Valve. But these lower priced products are made for what Microsoft calls "Emerging markets". If they can't put a lid on this now, then these countries go back to $250 for an OS and $50 for a game.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 08:07:01 AM
Someone said they could tackle the retailers in these countries directly. The thing is that it isn't the retailers, but rather the people who resell on websites to make a quick buck. And what about the people who bought these games? I am pretty sure they saw the box said "For sale in Thailand only". Maybe they should have tried to return the game?
If it actually says that on the box "For sale in Thailand only", then it begs this question -- why is the retailer selling it to those OUTSIDE of Thailand?

If it says that on the box, the retailer shouldn't be selling it outside of their country in the first place.

Hell, Amazon-UK has been already been denying Pre-Order sales to those trying to pre-order The Witcher from outside of the UK that want the uncut version.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 09:09:10 AM
I had no idea that Amazon was doing that, which sucks. I am sure some other sites will end up working out.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 09:26:44 AM
I had no idea that Amazon was doing that, which sucks. I am sure some other sites will end up working out.

I don't know if the Euro version of The Witcher has on the box "No sale outside of UK."

Other sites been selling it, though.

Quote
Wow that's really low. Sad
It was kind of expected from GameStar, given how their first impressions of the game were....

Patch 1.1 comes out tomorrow for the game -- so hopefully, that'll fix a number of issues.

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 09:35:00 AM
Quote
I don't know if the Euro version of The Witcher has on the box "No sale outside of UK."

I don't think it would be a problem since they are about the same price.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 09:41:51 AM
I don't think it would be a problem since they are about the same price.
I don't think CDPR (CD Projekt RED) is as anal as Valve, anyways.
CDPR have said in the past "the definitive version for American users will be the UK."
Though, I don't know if their US and UK publisher, Atari will be that anal about matters.

But, yeah -- this whole fiasco w/ Valve just flat out sucks. I'm sure gamers don't really want to return their stuff overseas, either.

Could Valve just let them keep these guys keep their foreign copy of the game and just charge the gamers like a few dollars to get a North American CD key or something like that $10-15 fee they charge if you switch your CD key to someone else?


Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 12:35:53 PM
Apparently taking the garden gnome found at the beginning of Ep2 all the way to the end yields some funny results. (http://www.kfj.f2s.com/index.php/2007-10-15-gnome-quest)
That's pretty cool!
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 08:40:19 PM
I understand that reasoning and totally don't at the same time.  If they knew what they were doing, fine, but my guess is those people had no idea it was somehow illegal or whatever to get the game outside of their territory.  PC gaming has always been like that.  I've played bunches of Japanese games on my PC, and plenty of Euro imports for censorship reasons.  Fuck anybody that tries to tell me I can't, for any reason.  You don't want me buying games from Thailand, then don't give me a fucking place to buy them.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 08:45:57 PM
I'm thinking of buying this since I don't own any of the games in the box, but reading about Steam and the crazy shit Valve is doing keeps putting me off from buying it and almost makes me think about holding out until I get a PS3 and just get that version.  Either way if I'm getting it on PC, I'm not going to get it until sometime next month since I've got money going to other things, but I would love to play Portal and TF2.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, October 25, 2007, 08:53:36 PM
I would love to play pirate Portal and TF2.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 26, 2007, 04:05:48 PM
Valve responds to the whole ordeal w/ NA users buying the game from Thailand. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/49656)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Friday, October 26, 2007, 05:25:59 PM
Valve responds to the whole ordeal w/ NA users buying the game from Thailand. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/49656)

Punish the retailer, not the customer.  That is absolutely not fair.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 26, 2007, 05:52:16 PM
Punish the retailer, not the customer.  That is absolutely not fair.

If the box says "Not for use outside of Thailand," then Thailand retailers should've never shipped out the Valve Orange Boxes outside of Thailand in the first place.

And that's not the NA gamers' fault. I've bought a fair amount of imports in my time (from Gogamer, pretty much) and none of these games have on the box anywhere "Not for sale outside of Europe."


Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Friday, October 26, 2007, 06:00:42 PM
The best solution, even though it would still suck, is to allow NA gamers that have Thai keys to only have to pay the difference, say $25 to make their copy "legit". This whole "Tough shit, buy it again at full price" attitude sucks.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 26, 2007, 06:01:38 PM
The best solution, even though it would still suck, is to allow NA gamers that have Thai keys to only have to pay the difference, say $25 to make their copy "legit".
That makes a little more sense.

Quote
This whole "Tough shit, buy it again at full price" attitude sucks.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, October 26, 2007, 07:11:01 PM
The whole thing sucks from the get-go.  Gamers handing Valve that sort of power sucks mercilessly.  Territories in the global 21st century?  Can't have international commerce?  Give me a fucking break.  These are the same corporate assholes who wouldn't blink twice about abolishing American jobs and handing all development and production to third-world sweatshops, if they could make it all work.  Now they're shitting a brick because the shoe is on the other foot?  Fuck them.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Friday, October 26, 2007, 07:13:30 PM
Very good point.  It's ok for them to outsource work for pennies on the dollar, but it's not ok for the consumers to do in kind?  I never thought of it that way.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, October 26, 2007, 08:40:36 PM
Cobra wins.  Valve now has to give everyone free pony rides.  And money.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 26, 2007, 09:20:32 PM
Cobra wins.  Valve now has to give everyone free pony rides.  And money.

And a copy of Episode Three, once they put it out.

I wonder what color their next compilation will be called.
Pink Box?

Hell, maybe just call it the Empty Box.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Friday, October 26, 2007, 09:33:19 PM
Well, it would almost be truth in advertising. Orange Box box had the two discs and a single slip of paper.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, October 27, 2007, 06:16:41 AM
Cobra wins.  Valve now has to give everyone free pony rides.  And money.

Heheh.  I was a bit under the influence when I wrote that.  It sort of hit me all at once, and came pouring out unimpeded.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, October 27, 2007, 06:30:52 AM
Regardless of how drunk you were, Cobra -- you're still right. :)

This sucks entirely. Valve should've came up w/ a better solution than what they did b/c the retailer decided to sell a game outside their own country, which the company should've never done in the first place if the box does say "No sale outside of Thailand." Like Valve -- the retailer is just trying to make a buck. And fo those in Austrailia who thought they bought an Australian copy at a legal store and wound up w/ a Thai company -- that's bullshit, that they got their plug pulled, too.

Y'know, no wonder I hate STEAM -- Valve has WAY TOO much control over stuff they really shouldn't have -- yeah, especially when it comes to Single Player Games (Half-Life series, Portal, etc). This is really what I hate about games having that damn Internet check -- any company who sees their game with a keycode sold outside of their own country could pull such a stunt. Yeah, and who gets boned in the end? The consumer.



Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Ghandi on Saturday, October 27, 2007, 12:01:53 PM
Heheh.  I was a bit under the influence when I wrote that.  It sort of hit me all at once, and came pouring out unimpeded.

Never post under the influence, you always end up regretting it. ;)

This comes from a guy who has 95% of his posts on here under the influence, though. :P
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, November 11, 2007, 08:33:52 PM
BethSoft makes a Portal map
BethSoft loves Portal so much, they made their own hard-as-sin Portal Map (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=87006)

Map
Get it here (http://www.twhl.co.za/mapvault_map.php?id=4842)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Sunday, November 11, 2007, 10:01:59 PM
I've tried to play TF2 a bunch, but I just can't get into it.  I can't seem to kill anyone and I don't get it.  As a rocket dude, other rocket dudes light me up but I can't seem to light anyone else up.  As a grenade launcher guy, same story.  Pretty much same story for every class. I'll be a heavy and go against another heavy and I'll die and he'll have like 2/3 health.  I don't get it.

Can't say I'm really fond of the game at this point.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, November 11, 2007, 10:56:09 PM
Bought Orange Box a while ago.  My thoughts:

Episode 1&2
I hadn't played ep.1 before so I started with that.  Originally I kind of planned going through HL2 proper before starting it, and I'm really glad I didn't.  Ep.1 was pretty shitty, just more of the same, but not really the good parts.  It's almost like they took the most tedious parts of the main game and just made a few new levels of them.  I can't really think of any standout moments, except for the strider battle, but that was even a letdown because there was only one of them.

Episode 2 was a lot better and I had a lot of fun with it.  I personally find the headcrab zombies and (to a lesser extent) the bugs the weaknesses of the HL2 games, but the underground section was actually still pretty fun.  The headcrabs though....lame. 

It was still a lot better than Ep.1, but I think the Source Engine might be reaching the end of it's lifespan.  I noticed that performance wasn't as good, but it didn't really look much better.  Beyond that, the shadow effects from your flashlight totally slow the game down, which is whacked because even old games like Silent Hill 2 pulled that off perfectly without any sort of performance hit.

I saved Portal for last since it's blatently the best and I'm a few hours into it.  Wow.  It's great.

TF2.  I don't know what to think, but it doesn't seem like TF2 at all.  TF1.5 maybe.  It's essentially TFC with nice cell-shaded graphics and a few class changes.  It needs a shit load more maps and maybe some game play modifications because it feels really stale already.  I still have a lot of fun with it, but I can second a lot of what scott says.  The gameplay style just feels kind of old, and the maps all being so similar doesn't help.     

All in all I like Orange Box a lot, but if I had already owned EP1, the pricing would almost make it not worth it. 

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, November 11, 2007, 11:14:33 PM
I agree with the TF2 thoughts. I still think its fun, but it really is just Team Fortress Tweaked. And new maps are a must. Capture points are fine but it grows old since nearly all the maps are CP.

The other thing I dislike is the stalemates. Who thought that was a good idea? What you need is a timelimit, which is already there. If your team has more CPs than the enemy, you win! If your team has more caps than the other team, you win! Why when the time limit is reached and you're up 2-1 caps in CTF do you then go into sudden death? It just turns the game into a retarded Counter-Strike mode to determine the outcome of the match.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, November 12, 2007, 02:41:13 PM
I personally only really have fun playing the 'support' type of classes.  Soldier is pretty boring. You just point, shoot, hope someone isn't looking in your direction or you somehow land a direct hit.  Heavy is too fucking slow, and Demolition...well, I don't think I've ver killed anyone playing that class. 

Engineer can be pretty fun, assuming you don't just constantly get killed before you get your turret up to the second level, and I've recently liked playing medic a lot.  Never tried scout, but spy is something I tried once or twice and just couldn't pull off. 

Generally, it's better than CS, but beyond that it can be fun in short bursts, but the maps really really kill it.  Especially when a server switches to 2fort.  You include like 6 very similar maps in the game including the same one people have been playing for a decade?  That's retarded. 
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, November 24, 2007, 07:12:00 AM
Yay @ my copy of The Orange Box shipping out for $25 from BB.com the other day!

I am so looking forward to PORTAL.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, November 24, 2007, 12:52:05 PM
I bought the Orange Box a while back, yet haven't really given it much of a spin. I played a few minutes of Portal, and also gave TF2 a shot. While I couldn't really get into it, I found myself enjoying the role of he medic. I didn't play beyond 20 minutes though.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, November 24, 2007, 01:54:14 PM
The vertigo killed it for me.  It's that game and probably some others, like Beautiful Katamari.  These 2 got played in succession, which is why I thought I had developed a general problem.  Not so.  I had no trouble with Bioshock, and I have no trouble now with Mario Galaxy or Assassin's Creed.  I hope to play more of Portal sometime.  I did like that, if only in short sessions.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Saturday, November 24, 2007, 07:48:13 PM
Cobra, are you using OB on PC or the 360?

And I found that the secret to really enjoying TF2 for myself is to adapt to the situation and change classes often.  I also found that when I'm doing well as scout, it might be the funnest thing ever.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Saturday, November 24, 2007, 09:48:49 PM
I still haven't been able to get into TF2.  I really like Valve's take on it in terms of art style, but the game I could care less about.  I suck, so that doesn't help, but I can't even suck and get any enjoyment out of it at all.  I simply do not like the game.  At all.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Saturday, November 24, 2007, 09:52:37 PM
Pssst......go medic or engineer. 
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, November 24, 2007, 11:25:13 PM
Cobra, are you using OB on PC or the 360?

The 360, which poses 2 problems.  (1) The frame rate is a consistent, vsynched 30 fps, which means jittery double vision at 60Hz refresh.  (2) Stick look is nothing like mouse look.  Mouse look is a quick dart to a new viewpoint, similar to human eye motion.  Stick look is like side scroll and rotation at the same time.  Now this doesn't always spell puke reflex, but if things stack up that way, it's time to play another game.  Assassin's Creed is also 30 fps, but the motion does not sicken me at all.  I'll guess that's because it's a 3rd-person game, so lots of action often happens without any change in perspective.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 01, 2007, 07:49:21 AM
So, I spent a nice deal of time yesterday w/ installing the NEW games in The Orange Box (About 40 mins) and then letting it update to the newest version of the damn thing (which took a few mins).

Well, I played Portal -- I think my stats say I got around 3.5 hours clocked in it, so far. Yeah, I like it -- a lot, to say the least. I'm still on the main piece, currently in Test Chamber 15 or whatever

About Your Portal Character Being....
(click to show/hide)

I've yet to try TF2 and HL2: Ep 2.

EDIT:
So, I spent a few good hours today w/ TF2. Keep in mind here, even though I have TF Original, I never even played it -- hehe. But, yeah -- I find TF2 to be a good deal of fun. Spent a good deal of time being the Pyro character, more so than anything.

I just logged into Steam -- looks like TF2 will have 36 new achievements they'll be adding eventually to it, very soon; sometime in the next few weeks.

 
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Saturday, December 01, 2007, 10:07:06 PM
Well that's interesting I guess.  Did they say anything about new maps?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 01, 2007, 10:21:57 PM
Well that's interesting I guess.  Did they say anything about new maps?

Nope. :(
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, December 01, 2007, 10:26:30 PM
There better be some new maps.

And D...test chamber 15? heh, keep going. You....no....cant spoil it. Go play.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 01, 2007, 10:31:17 PM
I'm on 18.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, December 02, 2007, 01:01:47 AM
keep going....
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, December 02, 2007, 02:15:57 AM
And D... once you hit the surprise... PLEASE KEEP IT UNDER SPOILERS.

I haven't gone through the game yet.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 02, 2007, 06:58:51 AM
And D... once you hit the surprise... PLEASE KEEP IT UNDER SPOILERS.

I haven't gone through the game yet.

When I jump back to Portal, I will make sure I do! :)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 02, 2007, 09:35:29 PM
Portal -- COMPLETE ENDING Talk
(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 03, 2007, 11:00:07 AM
DAMNIT IT STEAM!

I just want to play Episode 2 while I am uploading large megs of files to my clients. I don't have any freakin' bandwith to spare, yet every moment I get the urge to play a game on STEAM, it seems STEAM wants to update itself. At least ask me or something.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, December 03, 2007, 11:39:11 AM
Allow me to be implicitly redundant.  I've cursed Steam enough already.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 03, 2007, 12:45:12 PM
Sorry about the rant... while I was uploading my leather catalog to my clients, I let STEAM update patiently. I think after two restarts, it finally managed to update... but twenty minutes later the feeling had passed...

It is a good thing I only paid $20 for the Orange Box. Still very frustrated though.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 03, 2007, 02:55:50 PM
Pug, you can turn off AUTOMATIC updates.

In Steam....
On your "My Games" list, go to the Exact Game of the settings you want to mess with and RIGHT CLICK.
Drop down menu comes up, LEFT CLICK on Properties.
A dialog box appears, so LEFT Click on the Updates TAB.
Change your settings to "Do not automatically update this game."
Click Close.
All done.

Though, what should happen is next time you DO run that game, if it ain't up-to-date, STEAM will force the update on you.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, December 03, 2007, 02:58:00 PM
So it forces you anyway?  Then what the hell is the point of all that?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 03, 2007, 03:09:08 PM
So it forces you anyway?  Then what the hell is the point of all that?

Well, so say you got "Auto-Update" set to ON.

So say you hop on Steam and want to play Game X -- but, say some other Game Y has a new update. Different things happen, based on your settings.

W/ "Auto-Update" set to ON, it'll just update Game Y on its own whenever the update for Game Y is available -- it won't give a damn if you're say already running say Game X or NOT; it's gonna update Game Y, even if you're in the middle of playing Game X.

W/ "Auto-Update" set to OFF, say I want to run Game X, but I plan to and want to update Game Y maybe some other time later in life, whenever that might be. Well, Game Y won't just interrupt me to update itself, while I'm running in Game X (or any other game, for that matter). I have to actually boot up Game Y for it to actually update Game Y.


 

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Monday, December 03, 2007, 05:14:36 PM
He means Steam itself, D. There is no way to stop Steam from updating itself from what I can see. You can pause updating games, but thats usually worthless since it wont let you play them unless they are updated anyway.

And it seems like Steam pauses GAME updates when you're playing another game. Steam SYSTEM updates run even while playing...which sucked because for me it makes it impossible to play online if theres a system update.

My recent Steam troubles was the fact that Steam was failing to update itself. It couldn't download from the servers for some reason. That was early November. Then on the 20th someone from the Steam forum put up a full install of Steam, which I used and it worked. It was a problem connecting to the servers, since Steam would log in, run, update games, etc just fine. Just couldnt connect to download updates to Steam itself.

Thats fine unless Valve flags an update as mandatory, then you're back to your endless fail loop when trying to run Steam. Which they did with the Nov 30th update.

Finally it seems Valve is looking into the issue, the massive thread on the Steam forums was hard to ignore. We got an official response (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=622489&page=56) and they offer an official full Steam download as a temporary solution. Which is nice but...its been a fucking month. Why didnt they do that earlier? Why don't they do that anyway? They should just keep a fully updated manual install available to download and save some headaches so if something like this ever happened you wouldn't lock people out of a couple hundred dollars worth of their games.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, December 03, 2007, 05:27:21 PM
Well,that's the thing.  Live had an error where I couldn't update it or Gears of War automatically.  Yet, manual updates were provided for both, and without applying them I could still play offline perfectly fine.  I see no reason for Steam to work any differently except as some sort of anti-pirating strong arming that probably doesn't work.  Furthermore, I see no reason for so many people to accept such methods without complaint. 
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, December 03, 2007, 05:30:41 PM
What gpw said.  Last I checked, it doesn't work, too.  I know a number of people that played HL2 without the bullshit I went through to play it, and I'll bet for them it was even easier and didn't fuck up constantly when they wanted to play in offline mode.  Probably didn't fuck up the install due to some stupid error, either, or accidentally delete their files for no reason and then force them to download them again.  Or take an hour to "decrypt" an already-installed game.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 03, 2007, 10:56:36 PM
I thought I was pretty clear; D it wasn't the game that was updating, it was STEAM.

And yes while I've paused the auto updates for all the numerous games I have on STEAM, unfortunately if one of them needs updating, I can't play until it is done.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Monday, December 03, 2007, 11:00:33 PM
Thats one thing I find so stupid. The only reason to disable a game update is to put it off. For a multiplayer game where all versions need to be in sync, fine, cool. Require the update. But if I just want to get my singleplayer on, like I've already been doing, why force an update like that? Let me play.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 03, 2007, 11:16:42 PM
What's funny is that these are simple issues, that if corrected, would make STEAM a whole lot easier to swallow
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, December 04, 2007, 12:07:25 AM
Thats one thing I find so stupid. The only reason to disable a game update is to put it off. For a multiplayer game where all versions need to be in sync, fine, cool. Require the update. But if I just want to get my singleplayer on, like I've already been doing, why force an update like that? Let me play.

That's something else XBL does right.  If you reject an update, you get kicked offline.  You can still play the game, you just can't connect with it.  Once you leave the game, you get reconnected.  Simple, and it works.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 10:36:17 AM
Just finished episode 2, and wow, what a great ending. The last hour is just amazing, both in terms of explosive action and narrative. I was personally very moved by the final piece of drama, which I will not spoil. (The terminally ill looking man in the suit… He turns out to be Gordon from the future.)

After my personal disappointment with episode one, I can’t express how much I enjoyed this second installment. It seems like Valve has finally learned how to gel action sequences together. While HL2 was one great action sequence after another, it seemed to lack direction mostly through out. It almost felt like a ton of great ideas thrown together without much plausible transition.

Episode 1 was above average, but was disappointing in comparison to HL2. Story wise it was infuriating and just dragged the decent action sequences. Its other issue was its late arrival, making its engine feel aged.

While the visuals have gone through an improvement in episode two, they are a bit of a mixed bag. Environmental objects, like trees, grass etc look quite weak. The game also doesn’t have much beauty in the way of lighting from the sun, and something like HDR is sorely missed.

Other aspects like the interface also scream for an overhaul. In today’s fast paced shooter environment, switching weapons in the HL2 games feels like a real chore. While you can fast switch to your last used weapon, wanting to switch to something else takes a second too long. Though most modern shooters map grenade throwing to a single key, HL2:Ep2 still relies on the tired mechanic of weapon switching. On the subject of weapons, it is a pity that there aren’t any new ones in episode two.

The saving grace is the still excellent character design, which breathes life into every NPC you come across. The character skins and even the movement animations are all top notch. Water also looks a lot prettier, and the polygons in general seem to have gone through a bit of an upgrade. I personally believe that excellent character design is something that allows gamers to return to old engines more easily. 

Most shooters have trouble recycling an engine for one successful expansion, so credit to Valve for putting together episode 2.

The stakes are raised early on, which makes the action far more dramatic and your efforts more meaningful. The early introduction of the extremely cool hunter enemy sets the pace. While this creature looks like a mini strider, he moves and tracks like a horseback rider. The Hunters are fast and deadly, yet just vulnerable enough not to feel cheap. 

A change is in the way Alyx’s character is used by Valve. While episode 1 had Alyx tag along in a slightly superficial way, episode 2 really has her come alive. Her commentary is more regular and often pertains to the action on screen. The action almost always involves her in one way or another, lending the gameplay more of a heart. You also get an alien buddy, who speaks better English than most high school goers, and makes for a powerful yet entertaining ally. Dog too makes a return, as do some of the other characters integral to the storyline.
 
So overall, I really enjoyed this second episode. In terms of action I felt it was close to the level of HL2, while I felt that its story telling was far more accomplished.


(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2395/hle15jpgpj5.th.jpg) (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hle15jpgpj5.jpg)
(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9458/hle1mm7.th.jpg) (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hle1mm7.jpg)
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5408/hle3jpgdn1.th.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hle3jpgdn1.jpg)
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3513/hle12jpgeg2.th.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hle12jpgeg2.jpg)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 10:40:34 AM
Pug, WTF at the Gordon spoiler?!?!?!?
Can you spoiler tag that?

I ain't got that far yet... :P

Where MyD's At...
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Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 10:54:23 AM
haha I made that up.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 12:42:00 PM
You sure...??

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 12:53:55 PM
He made it up.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 01:15:42 PM
I can't believe I
(click to show/hide)
to MysterD.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 02:06:35 PM
I liked HL2:EP1 more than EP2 for some reason.  I'm not sure why, though.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 02:24:32 PM
I have to ask... why?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 02:50:25 PM
I think the part with the striders and hunters went on a touch too long personally.  I was getting pretty bored at the end of it, running back from attack zone to attack zone.  For the last few attacks I ended up setting up shop right in front of my base and just letting them come to me.

I do agree that Source doesn't do outside enviroments all that well.  I thin the framework for the engine is pretty much being pushed to it's limits already.

I'm anxiously awaiting the next episode.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 02:52:20 PM
Also, if you're playing a 3 to 5 hour episode of a game and you get bored EVER, you know something is very, very wrong.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 02:53:55 PM
That's a very good point, but to be fair I did play the two episodes back to back.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 03:32:07 PM
Yes I found episode one to be an extreme chore. Imagine a four/five hour game and literally forcing yourself to finish it. In the end I had about one hour of ep1 to go, and dragged it out for a month.

The worst part was having played HL2 and looking forward to answers, only to find you are back inside the stupid freakin' tower in episode 1. While it did have some entertaining scary sequences, the whole episode was a real drag. I wanted to just so badly get out of the damn city, and finally move the hell along in the story. I actually expected ep1 to begin with Gordon out of the City, and things moving forward.

Unfortunately nothing seemed to happen in episode 1. By the time you finally get out of the city, the game ends!

I honestly think Valve could have combined the best parts of episode 1 and 2, still kept it down to six hours, and yet have made a much better experience as whole.

Quote
I think the part with the striders and hunters went on a touch too long personally.  I was getting pretty bored at the end of it, running back from attack zone to attack zone.  For the last few attacks I ended up setting up shop right in front of my base and just letting them come to me.


While I think you are right, for some reason I really enjoyed it. The whole strider attack thing lasted a long while and was quite repetitive, but the time passed by very quickly for me. I think it could have been because I had the game's volume down and was listening to the PCG podcast as I played heh.

GPW what did you think of the very end?

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All the same, I look forward to ep3. I can't say I looked forward to ep2 at the end of ep1.

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 03:33:46 PM
Maybe that's why I liked Episode 1 and you didn't.  I don't worry about the story, because HL2 doesn't have one.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 03:54:53 PM
That's definitely it.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 04:13:56 PM
As an action game, HL games definitely succeed in giving the gamer action.

HL2: Episode 1's biggest problem is it's TOO much like HL2: Episode Zero. The physics puzzles, the weapons, the enemies, etc etc; there's barely anything new in Episode 1. It was, for the most part, a rehash of Episode Zero.

About HL games, sure -- there's a plot and all. Good luck digging for ALL of it, since a lot is cryptic and not able for you to assemble any pieces to try and assemble something out of it. It gives you a feel of "Wait until we here at Valve figure out where we want to take it to." Unfortunately, even though the characters have some depth to them, the plot really does lack it -- majorly. Worst of all, HL always tries to act like there's a lot there -- w/ long dialogues and expositions, that over add up to....nothing of much. At least Painkiller, which has no plot, knows what it is "there's no plot, we'll just throw crazy levels and shit at you to blow to kingdom come!"

About storytelling in HL, Often, it feels like a lot of things they just decide to pull out of their ass. HL games never seem to ever explain themselves -- but if they do explain it, it's usually quite late. For example, Episode Zero's cool ending isn't really explained at to why until Episode One actually OPENS. See, at the end of each HL episode/game, you will have new questions that leave you scratching your head. Unfortunately, they don't really give you any clues half the time of where it's going or actually put some of the pieces out there in any way to assemble a nice detailed story; a lot is still broken. Just try assembling something -- uh-oh, a lot of shit is still missing....

At least w/ FEAR (Original), hell -- even if ithe plot ain't spelled out 100% for you what's happening in your face, you definitely can assemble all of the questionable pieces together into something.

As an action FPS, Ep Two is great. And I do love the HL characters, too. But, unfortunately, seems like Valve still ain't great at story-depth.

Ep Two, at the base...
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Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 04:17:14 PM
D that will happen again haha.

Yes it is frustrating. It is like a game that pretends that it has a really deep story, when it doesn't.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 08, 2007, 04:22:07 PM
D that will happen again haha.
I expect shit like that to keep happening -- Valve doesn't tell us shit.

I'm telling you, they come up w/ cool stuff that they pull out of their ass and decide to delay any real explanations, in hope that you'll go and buy their next game -- in which their next game may or may not answer the cliffhanger(s).

Sometimes I wonder if Valve pulls a plot-element out of their ass and decided not to explain it until later b/c they ain't come up w/ the reason why that event has actually happened yet! :P


Quote
Yes it is frustrating. It is like a game that pretends that it has a really deep story, when it doesn't.
It's a shame, 'cause really that is the biggest weakness in the HL series.

Valve, hire some freakin' writers that explain shit! :P
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 09, 2007, 06:59:00 AM
GPW what did you think of the very end?

(click to show/hide)
All the same, I look forward to ep3. I can't say I looked forward to ep2 at the end of ep1.



I just finished it.

Ep Two Ending
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Yeah, Ep Two was a hell of a lot better than Ep One, regardless... 
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 10, 2007, 12:11:10 PM
Man I finished Portal. The HL2 engine still holds up really well in indoor settings. The portal gun is gorgeous looking, and every so often I'd just pause and admire the weapon textures.

But the game is really sweet, and pretty much the perfect length. I love the ending, and the game seems like it was put together with guys really believing in their project. I was really pleased with it.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 10, 2007, 04:34:56 PM
Portal was great.

Portal, End-Of-The-Game Talk
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Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, December 13, 2007, 02:04:34 PM
ActionTrip reports that StuffWeLike did an interview w/ Doug Lombardi of Valve.

 (http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=121307_7)
Quote
Stuff We Like: Are there any current plans after Episode 3 to have a Half Life 3?

    Dave L: We haven’t announced anything specific, but Half-Life won’t end at Episode Three – hang on to your crowbars!
No surprise there.

I wonder how "up in the air" HL2: Episode 3 will leave us, leaving us fiending for HL3.
You just know it's coming.... :P

BTW, when the hell will they announce Portal 2? :P

Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Friday, December 14, 2007, 09:23:54 PM
TF2 draws me in a bit more each time I play.  The balancing between the classes is amazing once you get over the learning curve (there's no "standard class" so it takes a while to start actually being useful with any of them).  I personally found the secret to having fun with it relies on your willingness to switch classes depending on the situation, and I've become at least passable with all of them (although I never touch sniper or spy).  My personal favorite would be medic, as I think it has the greatest impact on the tide of battle of any of the single units.  After that engineer for sure because you can make or break a defense as engineer.

But the thing that's stupid about the community surrounding the game is the whiny aspect of it.  People constantly bitching about whatever it was that tends to kill them a lot.  The current bitching?  Sniper Wars.  People bitching about how snipers on maps usually end up shooting at each other a lot (this is mainly directed at 2fort which people shouldn't be playing anyways), and thus don't aid their team in any way. They counter the very logical argument that snipers counter each other when nothing else does really, and distracting each other is what enables other teams to make movements by saying that the argument is just circular.  What?

But apart from the bitching, it's a great MP game.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 15, 2007, 02:39:13 PM
TF2 is really good MP-stuff.

I just wish Valve would pump out some new maps for this thing. I mean, geez -- the game only shipped w/ SIX maps, as is.

Yeah, I know The Orange Box is supposed to have "episodic" sized new stuff, but God -- Valve, can you deliver us a new official map every now and then???

Thankfully, when I hit a server, often they are using non-Valve maps; so yeah, at least there's other maps swinging around, to keep you playing. It's a good thing for SDK's to exist....
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Xessive on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 05:25:34 AM
Well, I finally took the plunge and picked up The Orange Box. Unfortunately everything refuses to install giving an ominous message "The Steam servers are currently busy. Try again in a few minutes." It's been doing that for the last hour.

I don't really know what the Steam servers have to do with installing from a disc but it is infuriating.

Once I get a taste of any of the content I'll let y'all know.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 07:17:44 AM
Do I even need to say it?
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 08:15:12 AM
That's weird. The game installed perfectly well for me from the discs after which it updated for a few minutes and that's it.

STEAM is bipolar.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 11:36:17 AM
X, I got that message when I bought Quake 2 and tried to install it. Have you tried simply quitting out of the program entirely and opening it again? It worked for me.

/obligatory "Steam sucks" comment
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 11:44:22 AM
Do I even need to say it?

No, but say it anyway.  The hate needs to be kept piping hot.  (Notice I didn't say "steaming"?)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Xessive on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 05:42:10 PM
X, I got that message when I bought Quake 2 and tried to install it. Have you tried simply quitting out of the program entirely and opening it again? It worked for me.

/obligatory "Steam sucks" comment
Thanks Ghandi, that seemed to do the trick but I had to install each piece individually i.e. install Episode 1, close Steam, run installer again, install Portal, close steam, etc. That was the case with the updates as well. If I had all of them updating at the same time Steam would just stop downloading and give me the same "servers busy" message; I had to disable auto-update on all but one at a time.

As Que alluded and Ghandi stated "Steam sucks." Frankly, I'm having less trouble with it than G4WL. I'm having a bit of difficulty accepting G4WL.

Anyway, the good news is they're finally installed! Portal is amazing! TF2 is beautifully crafted (haven't had a chance to experience actual MP gameplay yet). Episode 1 is alright so far. I'm enjoying Portal the most so far, it is a real jewel in this pack.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 07:28:29 PM
Okay, for all those who have played and finished Half-Life 2, Episode One, and Episode Two....
AND/OR those who just don't really care about Spoilers for the Entire HL2 Series (which is up to the end of HL2: Episode Two, so far)
Click the spoiler tag and check the link that comes w/ it!
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 08:48:43 PM
Wow that "article" was like something out of Penthouse Letters.  "Oh Valve *schlurp* we love you so much *schlurp* *schlurp*  You guys make the most awesomest games. *schlurp* Are you bad at anything? *schlurp* Everything you do is so awesome"
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 08:54:31 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 09:21:48 PM
Quote
Games are terrible at endings. In fact, game endings are always shit. Why aren't Valve's?
Are we playing games from the same company? The HL series endings are all pretty shitty. Portals was better mainly because of the song.
Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 09:34:08 PM
Wow that "article" was like something out of Penthouse Letters.  "Oh Valve *schlurp* we love you so much *schlurp* *schlurp*  You guys make the most awesomest games. *schlurp* Are you bad at anything? *schlurp* Everything you do is so awesome"


AHAHA.  I just read it and agree completely.  The fucked up thing is that they're not even praising Valve on the things they did well, they're praising them on stuff that's either totally insignificant or they did horribly.

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Title: Re: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 10:18:26 PM
I want to say something negative, but I just can't even find the words anymore.