Overwritten.net

Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: idolminds on Monday, October 15, 2007, 06:44:57 PM

Title: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Monday, October 15, 2007, 06:44:57 PM
Story (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/49445)

Game releases in a little over two weeks and it seems like the beta has quite a lot of bugs left and features missing. Though to meet launch date they will have to go "gold" soon. Already plans for a 0-day patch.

The odd part is their explanation that the beta is a much older build than what they have internally. That makes sense on the surface, since of course all the newest updates will be internal so the beta client will always be a little out of date. But how out of date is it? If all these problems are fixed, shouldn't you get them into the hands of testers so 1) they stop reporting the bugs you've already fixed and 2) they can see if those fixes have caused new bugs?

I dunno...time will tell, and time is running out.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, October 15, 2007, 07:46:33 PM
Well, well --- looks like here's another buggy game this year that will need a handful of patches after its original release; a la Two Worlds, NWN2, STALKER, etc etc.

Looks like I'll probably wait on this one -- which is what I was planning anyways, in the first place. Though, I definitely do want to play this one, for sure! Especially when it's in a better state.



Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, October 15, 2007, 11:13:11 PM
The developers of the game may be talented in terms of game design, but seem to have no idea what they are doing when it comes to other stuff. They keep changing their minds, and imposing ridiculous rules. They seem quite clueless.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, October 15, 2007, 11:21:06 PM
I'd agree with Pug.  I hope they figure things out and get the game up and running, but they need to seriously figure some shit out before they bite off more than they can chew.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 12:30:55 AM
Quote
but they need to seriously figure some shit out before they bite off more than they can chew.

I agree with that. It almost seems like they've taken far too many decisions into their own hands. Some of these things should perhaps be handled by the publisher, or someone more business minded.

Initially they imposed so many restrictions that they far too quickly decided against after the outcry. I sense a lot of indecision.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xero on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 08:28:04 PM
I played the latest build this morning for about 3 hours. I really don't know what anyone is whining about.  Right now it IS very playable and the game kicks some serious ass.  I got stuck on a texture once that was solved by logging out and logging back in. OH NOES!!!! 
Seriously I've played games in the past that were released worse than this. Yea it does lag a little in the stations. but on the comp I played it on it basically was slightly above minimum reqs and I got damn good fps (50ish in outdoor areas). It'll be fine IMO.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 08:31:35 PM
All I played was the alpha, which obviously was buggy as all hell, but the game certainly seemed to have potential.  But I do still get the general impression that Flagship is going a little too far too fast.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xero on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 01:59:42 AM
Yea I can agree with that. After a little thought, just because I've played games with a worse release than this doesn't mean they get permission to half ass the final product.  While the game still is playable, if I have to worry if I'll get stuck on a trash can in the final release yea I'll be a bit annoyed. I guess I'm just trying to be optimistic and hope they pull their act together to get the final release in tip top shape before its release.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 07:18:48 AM
Oh don't get me wrong, I certainly have the same hope.  Despite my annoyance with a few of their decisions, I still wish them the best of luck, and I think the game is going to be good one way or the other.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 10:56:38 AM
When I said it had to go gold soon, I was right. (http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=17903)

Game went gold, and a singleplayer demo will be released tomorrow. Oddly, I was in the beta but this will be the first time I actually get to properly play the game.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 19, 2007, 05:47:28 PM
Looks like the first patch, which is called "Patch 0", will be coming out the day of the game's release. Here's what to expect.

Click me! (http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground)

First up, is the Patch 0 stuff for EVERYONE -- Non-Subscribers and Subscribers alike.
Quote
Patch 0
DX10 Update
The build of Hellgate: London which you are reviewing includes both DX9 and DX10 versions of the graphics library. The DX10 version of this build has a few known issues. They include a slow framerate compared to the same scene in DX9 and black loading screens. We’re currently working on a fix for the black loading screens. The slower framerate is due to the fill-rate intensive special features that only our DX10 engine has, including: soft shadows with proper contact hardening, depth-of-field, motion blur, interactive GPU-simulated fluid smoke, texture-array animated rain, and soft particles. The extra fill rate costs are mitigated by an initial depth-only render pass, which is now being tested and will be ready for release. When Hellgate: London hits retail, we expect the framerate of our DX10 target to be as high, if not higher than DX9, including these special features.

Multiplayer Updates – All Players
We are continuing to push both new multiplayer features and bug fixes to the Beta. Things that may or may not be in during their review time (depending on when they do it), but will be in by launch are:

Buddy Lists
Much better and easier ways to organize your friends!

Guilds
While only subscribers can start one, anyone can join a guild. Special name colors and tags on characters show their affiliation.

Buddy and Guild Chat
Special chat channels so you can keep your conversations clear.

Bigger Levels in Nightmare Mode
These increase the time players get to spend in each area, giving the game a more expansive feel at higher difficulty levels.

PVP
Players can both duel and elect to enter free-for-all PvP Mode. To duel, a player invites the person they wish to duel into a group, and heads into an adventuring area. Duelers, then right-click on the portrait of the person they wish to duel and select the Duel option from the displayed list. Dueling can only take place outside of Underground hubs.

Players can also choose to enter into PvP mode which means they can be attacked and harmed outside of Underground hubs by anyone else that has chosen to enter PvP mode. That is, those in PvP mode, must always be ready for PvP. This is a way to have wide-ranging free-for-alls, or create your own “friendly-fire” way of playing the game.

Tuned Game Progression
Level and monster progression is more thematic in nature. While this does not affect the overarching layout of the world map, it does make each act feel more defined and focused.

Gossip
We’ve added loads of additional details on the people and places in the game through various NPCs in the world. This definitely helps make the stations feel more alive and provides players with more of the back-story.

More Quest Information
Quest NPCs do a better job of getting you prepared to know what you’re fighting and why. The overall story flows much better, the named demons that are encountered are given more story weight, and players gain a much better sense of overall direction.


NPC Tweaks
The vocal responses given by NPCs have been tuned so that they tend more towards the serious and “normal”, reserving the twisted commentary for specific player characters or in rare moments for the general populace.
Okay, that's all for the "Non-Subscriber Stuff..."

Next up, "Subscriber Stuff" for those spending extra $$$...
Quote
Subscriber Features

Elite Mode
This is for those players that always feel a game is too easy. The demons are tougher, deal out more damage, move faster, travel in larger groups, and have more champions at the ready. Numerous tweaks to the overall balance and progression of the game make this an extremely challenging mode.

Hardcore
Hardcore mode takes away the various resurrection options. For the gamer that wants the ultimate test, try playing an Elite Hardcore character!

Guild Creation
Buy purchasing a Guild Herald, a character can form a new guild. Characters can only be part of one guild at a time and should a Guild leader decide to abandon their post, they can pass leadership of the Guild to another subscribing guild member.


Achievements
These are long-term goals for players. The player starts with a few new goals in an Achievement Log. These can be as simple as slaying a certain amount of specific demons to something as difficult as completing quests without the benefit of armor! Players uncover new goals as they start to meet the requirements of that achievement. For example, after 50 zombies have been slain, an “Achievement Unlocked” message displays on the screen. Checking the Achievement Log shows how many zombies must be eradicated to complete the achievement. Rewards for completing achievements can be anything from reputation to tags on the player to special particle effects to items to special skills to – well, anything is possible!

Extra Character Slots
While everyone gets 3 character slots, subscribers can have a maximum of 24 characters.

Larger Stash
Each character’s storage locker is doubled in size with an extra 6x8 section, making the hoarding of all sorts of goodies that much easier. Packrats rejoice!

Founder’s Perks
Name Color
Forum Icon
More to come… (this will be an on-going area, as well)
Okay, that's most of the "Subscriber Stuff"

Some more, coming up next.
Next special "Subscriber Theme Events & Items"
Quote
Themed Events and Items

Halloween (October 31 – November 4)

    * Zombot - A special pet just for All Hallows’, this amalgam of meat and metal is sure to frighten and delight those players that are willing to put in the time to find all the necessary pieces in order to construct him.

    * All Hallow’s Visage - A Unique Helm that has not only very special properties, but as well a look unlike any other helm in the game. Ghost Rider would be jealous!

    * All Hallow’s Treats - Delicious and devious, these different candies do everything from temporarily boosting stats to temporarily altering the appearance of the devourer.

    * All Hallows’ Quests - There is a pair of special quests available, including one that is repeatable for continuous fun.

    * Nemo ~ Master of Festivities - This special NPC can first be found in Covent Garden Station to greet players and send them on their way with quests specifically crafted for the season.

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Friday, October 19, 2007, 06:06:36 PM
Interest...dropping.....
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 19, 2007, 06:20:11 PM
Interest...dropping.....
Same here.

The "Subscriber Only" stuff don't even sound that great -- at least right now, it doesn't. Most of that stuff, you'd think would be available in the "non-subscriber version" of Patch 0; such as the extra diffuculty settings.

The whole "EULA" issue is pathetic. I think it's fine for HG: London to want to know what my system has for hardware power -- I have no problem w/ that, since it probably is quite beneficial for the designers to know what the hell exactly gamers are using for hardware, so they can try to optimize the game as much as possible for as many possible hardware sets and combination that they can see in use by gamers. I don't think any gamer is complaining about that much.

Though, HG: London's EULA crosses the line when wanting to know more than my hardware, such as what other software I have and transmitting info to possibly other 3rd-parties -- that's just ridiculous and not fine w/ me.



Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, October 19, 2007, 11:10:57 PM
Why can't they just push the release date?

EA?
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Jedi on Friday, October 19, 2007, 11:43:49 PM
Why can't they just push the release date?

EA?

Money....
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 23, 2007, 01:46:59 PM
About Early Release Of The Game....
Why can't they just push the release date?

EA?
Actually, they kind of did....
Only if you buy the product from EA directly....

LINKY (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/35010/Hellgate-London-Unlocks-Tomorrow)

Quote
Hellgate London Unlocks Tomorrow?
Oct 23, 2007 at 1:26 PM - Robert "Apache" Howarth - 3 Comments

Well geeze. It looks like if you buy Hellgate London from the EA store, the game unlocks tomorrow. Thanks, Brian Williams.

In other EA store news, if you pre-order Crysis, the game unlocks 3 days earlier than retail, plus you can download the SP demo on Thursday.

The kicker? EA's download service has a somewhat colorful history in terms of quality and support.

Do you feel lucky? Do ya?!

EDIT:
Idol beat me to it on the EULA Ordeal.
Removed.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, October 23, 2007, 07:42:40 PM
EULA Explanation (http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground/eula-explanation)

Quote
We just made some big announcements about Hellgate: London, and it’s been great to see all of the excited comments regarding what we have in store for our players on day one and onward. On the flip side, we’ve also heard grumblings about the EULA that went out with our DX9 single-player demo.


We want to make something very clear. We are in no way scanning your computers for your personal information or taking any personal information without your knowledge. The only time that Flagship or Ping0 would collect your personally identifiable information is when you actually decide to give it to us. Examples are when you create an account for Hellgate: London online or when you provide us your personal information when you enter a contest. The language in the portion of the EULA that has been cited is actually fairly standardized language that is used in the vast majority of EULAs for recent on-line software. It was unfortunately also somewhat broad in scope and potentially ambiguous in nature in an attempt to keep the legalese at a minimum.


This catch-all statement was included so that we have the ability to determine if someone is using hacks, unauthorized mods or other abusive applications while playing the game which spoils the gameplay for everyone else. We also use this catch-all to protect other parties offering technical support, such as our online provider, Ping0. This is a completely legitimate function and other leaders in the MMO space do it in an effort to stop hackers and provide better technical support. In order to stop hacks and cheats, as well as attempts at outright fraud, we may need the ability to scan our player’s computers for applications running at the same time as our game. This paragraph was designed to be able to allow for such functionality. It is also important to point out that EA does not determine what we do in regards to online and offline for our game security.


Also, this has nothing specifically to do with advertisements. EA has nothing do with Massive or potential ad-serving in Hellgate: London. First and foremost, any in-game advertising that would be in Hellgate: London is there to simulate how London looks in the real-world. Ads that represent this have been in the entirety of the beta, and in fact, have been shown in the game for well over a year. The fact is that we did not agree to potentially have ads in the game just to make more money. If we did not work with Massive, we would have to get individual approvals from every single company that we want to feature in the Underground stations. This is simply too time consuming and it’s much better to have the experts to do it, allowing us time to focus on making Hellgate: London better and better while getting a realistic portrayal of London in the process.


Should we elect to serve ads, they must be approved by us, Flagship Studios. We would demand that they be in-context with the game world - aged, weathered, only shown in appropriate areas, just as the static posters you see in the Stations are now. We have no interest in putting giant, bright-white billboard in the middle of your battles or having you wield swords of Brand X Cola.


Finally, Hellgate: London and all of the online play and components are controlled by Flagship Studios and Ping0. We’re all gamers here, and we’re as sensitive to protecting our personal information as you are. This is why we have spent the past six months becoming a member of the ESRB Privacy Online certification program. This means that we’re meeting the most rigorous standards in the industry for protecting your privacy and the information that you provide us.


We hope this helps address the concerns of our community.


See you online!
The bold part made me laugh pretty good. The ads arent there to make them money, its there for you, the gamer, to make it feel more like the real London. Sure, we could have just made some fake ads, but that involved work. The fact that the ad companies will pay us had no baring on this decision.

Do you like my hat? It's made of MONEY!
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 23, 2007, 07:50:47 PM
Let's see....

The Witcher will let me register the game for FREE and then I can get extra MP3's (music and videos); game extensions; tips from game designers; an SDK to be released by X-Mas; and other unannounced cool stuff...

...while Hellgate wants me to pay a monthly fee or lifetime free to get extra in-game extensions; comes w/ Advertising; comes w/ Ad-ware that wants to scan my PC; etc etc.

Hmmm, I think I'll go with The Witcher.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, October 23, 2007, 10:39:20 PM
We at Electronic Arts are shocked and hurt at some of the accusations that have been going around. These advertisements are there for your benefit, and not to increase our revenue.

But honestly, I don't mind in game advertising if it is done tastefully. Big IF though.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 06:23:31 AM
Do you like my hat? It's made of MONEY!

 ;D
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 08:35:14 AM
We at Electronic Arts are shocked and hurt at some of the accusations that have been going around. These advertisements are there for your benefit, and not to increase our revenue.
LOL!

Quote
But honestly, I don't mind in game advertising if it is done tastefully. Big IF though.
Exactly my sentiments on the bolded part there, Pug.

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, November 02, 2007, 01:57:38 PM
Reviews
7.4 from CVG (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=174477)
7 from Bit-Tech (http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2007/11/02/hellgate_london/1)

ShackNews gives no score, but they think the game needs some major patching, tweaks, changes, and fixing to make it worthwhile. (http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=657)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, November 02, 2007, 02:28:08 PM
Those lower than expected review scores made me feel surprisingly happy, which kinda shocked me. In the end, I've always put personal dislikes aside and always hoped for the best when it came to a game -- especially a PC game.

So yes, for the very first time I felt happiness that a much hyped game got disappointing scores.

Here are a few reasons why I may be pleased:

1. When they initially started development, the developers did an interview where they talked about why they left Blizzard. They didn't seem like a pleasant bunch.

2. They kept making idiotic decisions and then going back on them at the slightest sign of a fan protest. This showed a lack of confidence.

3. They shook hands with EA.

4. Even before they shook hands with EA, they had started to adopt EA's greedy behavior.

5. No LAN play. I have two PCs. No way am I buying two copies to play with my friends on LAN. When I went to the forums to express my unhappiness, I saw the game's fanboys already shredding other protesters to bits. This was years ago! God I hate fanboys. Fuck fanboys,.

6. This is a selfish reason. It is another game I don't have to buy.

I am pretty sure PC Gamer will give this a score in the 80s. Why? Because they put the game on the cover, and once they do that, no matter how bad a game is, it gets a score that allows PCG to save face.

--------------------------------------

I've been going across the boards, and the singleplayer in this seems to be really ordinary. Some of the classes are fairly cool, but most suck. The NPCs are horrible, and the storyline is retarded and thin. The multiplayer is good, but when you consider that it is pay to play, then it is competing with a whole new breed of games. I doubt it could stand up to them.


--------------------------------------

OK I swear to god I had no idea what score PC Gamer would give this game when I said,"I am pretty sure PC Gamer will give this a score in the 80s. Why? Because they put the game on the cover, and once they do that, no matter how bad a game is, it gets a score that allows PCG to save face. "

I know it is fairly early days, but here are some new scores:

Gamepro: 3/5
Eurogamer: 7/10 (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=819366)
PC Zone: 74%
PC Gamer UK: 73%
PC Gamer: 89%




Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, November 02, 2007, 02:33:38 PM
Eurogamer Review
Let the mediocre reviews continue w/ Eurogamer's review...
7 from Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=86786)

To Pug
Those lower than expected review scores made me feel surprisingly happy, which kinda shocked me. In the end, I've always put personal dislikes aside and always hoped for the best when it came to a game -- especially a PC game.

So yes, for the very first time I felt happiness that a much hyped game got disappointing scores.

Here are a few reasons why I may be pleased:

1. When they initially started development, the developers did an interview where they talked about why they left Blizzard. They didn't seem like a pleasant bunch.

2. They kept making idiotic decisions and then going back on them at the slightest sign of a fan protest. This showed a lack of confidence.

3. They shook hands with EA.

4. Even before they shook hands with EA, they had started to adopt EA's greedy behavior.
Acting like EA = big "no-no" to me -- hehe. :P

Especially w/ the Hellgate EULA and the game's "subscription" model, I really wasn't too happy w/ them. Throw in the ads and other stuff, and I think Flagship is doing everything I think a game developer SHOULD NOT try to do.

Meanwhile, you got CD Projekt here who FOUGHT with Atari to convince them not to FORCE a Required Registration/Activation on the gamer. They got their way, too. If you want some extra content for the game that they WILL later release for FREE, you have to register your CD Key with them, though -- up to you.

Quote
5. No LAN play. I have two PCs. No way am I buying two copies to play with my friends on LAN. When I went to the forums to express my unhappiness, I saw the game's fanboys already shredding other protesters to bits. This was years ago! God I hate fanboys. Fuck fanboys.
No LAN play seems foolish, to me.

With Hellgate having what is said to be a lackluster SP, one can wonder why they included it, if it wasn't going to be that good. I'll have to play it, to give an actual opinion on it, though. But, this is basically how I felt about Two Worlds' MP portion; it felt very unnecessary to have this component, given how good the SP experience was. For Two Worlds, it probably didn't help that there was a lack of MP servers and players, as well. I dunno -- if it was dull, compared to the SP experience that had me hooked.

Quote
6. This is a selfish reason. It is another game I don't have to buy.
Same here, Pug. :) Makes my decision a lot easier on what to do w/ Hellgate.
Especially since it seems buggy out the box, even after a patch already. I can wait on this one -- especially if the SP portion isn't that great and especially since there is that "subscription model."

GameSpot's HG Guide
G-Spot ain't done with the HG Guide yet it looks like, but they have at least started a Guide up for HG: London. (http://www.gamespot.com/features/6182055/p-9.html)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, November 02, 2007, 11:22:48 PM
It almost seems that development focus shifted when they realized how much more money they could make with an MMORPG.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, November 03, 2007, 06:55:16 AM
To Pug
It almost seems that development focus shifted when they realized how much more money they could make with an MMORPG.

Basically, that is what it sounds like, unfortunately.

GameSpy ain't impressed, either...
3 stars from GameSpy (out of 5) (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/hellgate-london/832252p1.html)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, November 03, 2007, 12:15:49 PM
Oh but its not an MMO! Really! I know we're charging a monthly fee and everything, but thats just for the content (and other things we've locked away)! Totally not an MMO. Nope. Not even a little.



Ok, maybe a little.


Though I do agree with pug. I think the development started off well enough until they realized they could get a monthly fee out of players. Then it was all about money and not particularly about the game itself. I think Blizzard games do well because...sure they want to make money, but I get the impression that they really, truely care about the quality of the games themselves. Theres that little extra something. Impossible to describe, but you can tell the developers put a little love into the game. Hellgate seems to be missing that.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, November 03, 2007, 12:54:10 PM
Quote
I think Blizzard games do well because...sure they want to make money, but I get the impression that they really, truely care about the quality of the games themselves.

Exactly. Their games have a soul. Also it helps that Blizzard doesn't charge fees to play online.

EDIT:

OMG BREAKING NEWS! BLIZZARD SOLD TO ELETRONIC ARTS! (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: scottws on Saturday, November 03, 2007, 01:16:07 PM
OMG BREAKING NEWS! BLIZZARD SOLD TO ELETRONIC ARTS! (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare)
;D
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, November 03, 2007, 04:26:17 PM
To Puggy
Exactly. Their games have a soul. Also it helps that Blizzard doesn't charge fees to play online.

EDIT:

OMG BREAKING NEWS! FLAGSHIP SOLD TO ELETRONIC ARTS! (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare)
Oh, we knew that much. :P


AtomicGamer Review
79% from AtomicGamer (http://www.atomicgamer.com/article.php?id=487)

GamesRadar Review
7 from GamesRadar (out of 10) (http://www.gamesradar.com/us/pc/game/reviews/article.jsp?sectionId=1000&articleId=2007103193155461090&releaseId=2005138888000000020733)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Ghandi on Saturday, November 03, 2007, 07:35:48 PM
Though I do agree with pug. I think the development started off well enough until they realized they could get a monthly fee out of players. Then it was all about money and not particularly about the game itself. I think Blizzard games do well because...sure they want to make money, but I get the impression that they really, truely care about the quality of the games themselves. Theres that little extra something. Impossible to describe, but you can tell the developers put a little love into the game. Hellgate seems to be missing that.

It's the forced child labor. Those kids crap out good games.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, November 03, 2007, 08:34:32 PM
I think Blizzard games do well because...sure they want to make money, but I get the impression that they really, truely care about the quality of the games themselves. Theres that little extra something. Impossible to describe, but you can tell the developers put a little love into the game. Hellgate seems to be missing that.
It's really amazing to see a company like Blizzard still decide every year or so, to pop off another patch for Starcraft.

Most games these days stop getting official patches around a year or so, after the game's release.


Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xero on Sunday, November 04, 2007, 01:56:49 PM
Hellgate is awsome fuck you guys!
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, November 04, 2007, 02:18:00 PM
haha.. It probably is. I'll pick it up eventually.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, November 04, 2007, 02:28:35 PM
haha.. It probably is. I'll pick it up eventually.

I'm sure once many of the issues and kinks get worked out w/ a bunch of patches behind it AND when HG: London gets cheaper, I'll probably get it.

I still want to play it.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, November 04, 2007, 03:57:53 PM
Given that I don't want EA's prying eyes looking up my rectum, I think I've officially decided that I won't go anywhere near Hellgate until that behavior is removed.  If it never is, I'll never play it.  Honestly, I can just wait for the *actual* Diablo 3.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, November 04, 2007, 04:54:07 PM
Given that I don't want EA's prying eyes looking up my rectum, I think I've officially decided that I won't go anywhere near Hellgate until that behavior is removed.  If it never is, I'll never play it.  Honestly, I can just wait for the *actual* Diablo 3.
I just hope D3 will NOT be a MMO Only.

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, November 04, 2007, 11:59:43 PM
D3 would be awesome. Trouble is Blizzard need to really innovate rather than just produce Diablo 2.1

The issue is that Diablo has had so many clones, most of which aren't bad, that it simply won't be good enough to release a typical Blizzard sequel. Admittedly I'd play the game no matter what. I love Diablo to death. I think the game had me addicted for years. I can still play for days.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xero on Monday, November 05, 2007, 06:32:46 AM
In all seriousness I am curious what issues you guys feel need patching?  I havn't had the stuck issue I had in beta with the retail version yet, and even if I do they added a /stuck command that takes you to the entrance again.  Graphics run smooth, stations are a little laggy but again, nothing like beta was. The biggest bug I've seen is with the engineer class and their robot minion eating weapons.  So I'm obviously missing something? I have a lvl 12 blademaster and a lvl 14 marksman atm and my friend has a 23 engineer so I'm pretty sure we would have seen any major bugs by now right I think.

Oh and on the monthly fee thing...wtf?  Yea they have one or two things they coulda gave away instead of charging for (character slots being the biggie in my opinion) but lets face it, you get the game same as the singe player to play through for free with friends. Same items, same drop rates, same classes. So what if they wanna charge for extra content they create as extras, I'm willing to bet they need that just to cover the what....4 yearish development time? Not including things like server fees you can play free on? I really don't see it being alot different than guild wars honestly. You can say its not worth it right now...and you're probably right. When they pump out a few new crazy weapon and armor graphics and even a new class or two (yep new classes) then yea it'll be damn well worth it. instead of playing your $30-$40 whateven guild wars expansions here you pay a monthly fee. To some its worth it, others can play the free online game and its still a fun game.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: scottws on Monday, November 05, 2007, 11:33:13 AM
Oh and on the monthly fee thing...wtf?  Yea they have one or two things they coulda gave away instead of charging for (character slots being the biggie in my opinion) but lets face it, you get the game same as the singe player to play through for free with friends. Same items, same drop rates, same classes. So what if they wanna charge for extra content they create as extras, I'm willing to bet they need that just to cover the what....4 yearish development time? Not including things like server fees you can play free on? I really don't see it being alot different than guild wars honestly. You can say its not worth it right now...and you're probably right. When they pump out a few new crazy weapon and armor graphics and even a new class or two (yep new classes) then yea it'll be damn well worth it. instead of playing your $30-$40 whateven guild wars expansions here you pay a monthly fee. To some its worth it, others can play the free online game and its still a fun game.
I will be honest and say I don't know much about Hellgate, so maybe I shouldn't respond here, but I feel like the issue is that Blizzard never charged extra to play on its servers, Blizzard doesn't charge extra because of their long development cycles.  To be honest, the only games that have historically been pay-to-play are most MMOGs, with a few games making an attempt at purchasing micro upgrades (horse armor).

It rubs people the wrong way.  It seems... whorish.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Monday, November 05, 2007, 11:49:35 AM
The Guild Wars model is more player friendly, I think. Buy the expansion, play online free as much as you want. Nothing is locked away behind a fee, they can't take stuff away from you if you stop "paying" as it were. In Hellgate, if you stop paying the fee you aren't allowed to use any of the extra content. No more hardcore mode, you lose the extra character slots (the characters remain, you just can't play any outside of the 3 you choose), you lose your extra storage space, you cant use the elite weapons and armor you've collected, etc.

Guild Wars doesn't do that stuff. I can play when I want, whatever class I want, keep all my loot, my storage box, PvP...whatever. Its a much nicer feeling.

It also remains to be seen how long the Hellgate team can keep up the pace with creating new content. People are going to get pissed if the level of content doesn't meet their expectations. Expectations will be high since they are already seemingly paying for it.

It also smacks of greed because they charge a fee plus have in-game ads.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, November 05, 2007, 03:53:16 PM
The Guild Wars model is more player friendly, I think. Buy the expansion, play online free as much as you want. Nothing is locked away behind a fee, they can't take stuff away from you if you stop "paying" as it were.
Agreed.

Quote
In Hellgate, if you stop paying the fee you aren't allowed to use any of the extra content. No more hardcore mode, you lose the extra character slots (the characters remain, you just can't play any outside of the 3 you choose), you lose your extra storage space, you cant use the elite weapons and armor you've collected, etc.
Which sucks.

Quote
Guild Wars doesn't do that stuff. I can play when I want, whatever class I want, keep all my loot, my storage box, PvP...whatever. Its a much nicer feeling.
Amen.

Quote
It also remains to be seen how long the Hellgate team can keep up the pace with creating new content. People are going to get pissed if the level of content doesn't meet their expectations. Expectations will be high since they are already seemingly paying for it.
I also wonder how much BETTER and IMPROVED some of the "new content" will be, given how many game reviews and gamers have said how the questing can get very repetitive and suffers from "too much of the same."

Quote
It also smacks of greed because they charge a fee plus have in-game ads.
Right on -- preach it, Idol!
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xero on Monday, November 05, 2007, 04:38:32 PM
Quote
I will be honest and say I don't know much about Hellgate, so maybe I shouldn't respond here, but I feel like the issue is that Blizzard never charged extra to play on its servers, Blizzard doesn't charge extra because of their long development cycles.  To be honest, the only games that have historically been pay-to-play are most MMOGs, with a few games making an attempt at purchasing micro upgrades (horse armor).

You're exactly right. Pay for content games are trying to make headway.  It seems developers think its a good way to make money. As greedy and whorish as it may sound to you(and everyone here it seems) at the end of the day these guys still need money to run a business. By no means am I saying it was the solution I had wanted them to do, (I would prefer to buy my content in packs for a one time price as well) but it is they way they went and I'm not gonna damn them for making a judgement call. I really enjoy the game so I hope it doesn't bite them in the ass.

Quote
The Guild Wars model is more player friendly, I think. Buy the expansion, play online free as much as you want. Nothing is locked away behind a fee, they can't take stuff away from you if you stop "paying" as it were. In Hellgate, if you stop paying the fee you aren't allowed to use any of the extra content. No more hardcore mode, you lose the extra character slots (the characters remain, you just can't play any outside of the 3 you choose), you lose your extra storage space, you cant use the elite weapons and armor you've collected, etc.

Guild Wars doesn't do that stuff. I can play when I want, whatever class I want, keep all my loot, my storage box, PvP...whatever. Its a much nicer feeling.

Yea I'm not arguing that it was a great move. The closest thing I can compare it to is a dirty bastard child of Oblivion's system and Guild wars and not really as good as either. What I am saying is if you don't like it don't pay. You still get everything that is in the single player. From the sounds of it besides a beta test or alpha test not many of you have judged the game by actually playing it. People have posted reviewer score after reviewer score to what end?  Tell me if Crysis, Witcher, or Assassin's creed got mediocre scores would you care? Nah. Probably not. It does, however, fuel a certain dislike of a game because of the previous issue. Alot like Halo 3.  The game itself is pretty damn fun with a group, yet because of its horrible fanboy base and general negative appeal, it to got bashed pretty well on these boards without many people actually having played it from what I could tell.

but, meh.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, November 05, 2007, 04:39:54 PM
Hexus likes Hellgate (http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=10301&page=7)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, November 05, 2007, 09:59:16 PM
Nobody here likes they way they've done things, and when their wallets are on the line, that's all that matters.  Personally I hate the Hellgate model, and that coupled with EA's little "let us examine all the programs you're running" bullshit, it's enough to keep me well away from the game.  There's nothing wrong with that.  It doesn't matter if the game is the most fun thing ever, because those are the problems keeping me away from the game, and unless those get resolved, I'm not touching it.  End of story.  It isn't like "well, I'll change my mind if the game totally rocks".  No, I don't care about the quality of the game.  They can make the best game they want, and more power to them, but I hate the way they handled this and it's soured the whole deal for me.  If others are willing to put up with it, fine, but I'm not one of them.

And what the hell is wrong with judging something without playing it?  I can look at Love and Flowers Romantic Comedy with Meg Ryan # 673, and I think it's a pretty clear indication given my taste that I'm really not looking to plunk down cash and waste time watching something I'm pretty damned sure that I'm not going to like.  So what, now I have to play Halo 3 to be sure that I won't like it?  I can't judge from what I've seen, read, and the past experiences I had with the other two games?  This doesn't hold entirely true for me because I did get to play it a bit, but there's no fucking way in hell I'd pay 60 bucks for that, and I don't have the inclination to go to the trouble of renting it because I just don't care.

I fail to see why having a negative opinion these days suddenly bans everyone from reason.  I don't mean to sound confrontational about it, but it's just sort of getting weird.  People make judgment calls.  You have to make judgment calls.  It's part of life.  Plenty of people didn't like Clive Barker's Jericho, and I loved it.  I'll tell them why and extol the virtues any time, but do I *really* care if an individual doesn't dig it, or assumes from what they've read and seen that they won't?  No.  Not everybody likes everything, and generally people make pretty decent assumptions when it comes to entertainment products.  Sometimes they might be surprised, and sure, sometimes something might get railroaded in reviews even if it doesn't deserve it, but so too do things get too much praise, so too do people think they'll really love something and find out that they actually hate it.

It just comes down to the fact that we all take the chances we're willing to take, and for many of us, Hellgate just isn't worth the risk.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, November 06, 2007, 03:38:55 AM
Xero, personally, I am not judging the gameplay. Like Que and Scottws have said, we are just turned off by the whorish attitude. The game could kick a lot of ass.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xero on Tuesday, November 06, 2007, 06:07:09 AM
Quote
Nobody here likes they way they've done things, and when their wallets are on the line, that's all that matters.  Personally I hate the Hellgate model, and that coupled with EA's little "let us examine all the programs you're running" bullshit, it's enough to keep me well away from the game.  There's nothing wrong with that.  It doesn't matter if the game is the most fun thing ever, because those are the problems keeping me away from the game, and unless those get resolved, I'm not touching it.  End of story.  It isn't like "well, I'll change my mind if the game totally rocks".  No, I don't care about the quality of the game.  They can make the best game they want, and more power to them, but I hate the way they handled this and it's soured the whole deal for me.  If others are willing to put up with it, fine, but I'm not one of them.

Thats perfectly fine. I did however admit to Pyro  sometimes I think this board has a very heavy mob mentality.  Now that could just be because you all share such close opinions on things you tend to agree or something as far fetched as its just easier to agree. Hell I'll be honest, I've been playing devil's advocate through this just to see someone disagree.  At the end of the day I bought the game, I play the game, anyone who wants to run with me is welcome and everyone else can do whatever else they want.

Quote
And what the hell is wrong with judging something without playing it?  I can look at Love and Flowers Romantic Comedy with Meg Ryan # 673, and I think it's a pretty clear indication given my taste that I'm really not looking to plunk down cash and waste time watching something I'm pretty damned sure that I'm not going to like.  So what, now I have to play Halo 3 to be sure that I won't like it?  I can't judge from what I've seen, read, and the past experiences I had with the other two games?  This doesn't hold entirely true for me because I did get to play it a bit, but there's no fucking way in hell I'd pay 60 bucks for that, and I don't have the inclination to go to the trouble of renting it because I just don't care.

Ok now see, this I can both understand and have a problem with in part.  There is something wrong with judging something without playing it when it pertains to a normal interest. So far as I know Meg Ryan and Love and Flowers I can't see you taking part in on a regular basis unless forced to.   A diablo like hack-n-slash however would seem to be something a regular gamer would be interested in.  So you make a judgement call on that based on what? A EULA?  Well if thats the reason, sure be pissed at the company and don't play it. Then you can't comment on the game itself, just the shitty under dealings of its makers. Halo 3 is one of those things...I'm pretty sure I read you didn't like the previous ones so no, no reason to check out the third one.  Basically you showed interest in the game, yet now because of shady business practices you act like the game is shit. Lets keep it about who you're pissed at not what. Again though, you don't wanna play the game, screw it don't play.

Quote
I fail to see why having a negative opinion these days suddenly bans everyone from reason.  I don't mean to sound confrontational about it, but it's just sort of getting weird.  People make judgment calls.  You have to make judgment calls.  It's part of life.  Plenty of people didn't like Clive Barker's Jericho, and I loved it.  I'll tell them why and extol the virtues any time, but do I *really* care if an individual doesn't dig it, or assumes from what they've read and seen that they won't?  No.  Not everybody likes everything, and generally people make pretty decent assumptions when it comes to entertainment products.  Sometimes they might be surprised, and sure, sometimes something might get railroaded in reviews even if it doesn't deserve it, but so too do things get too much praise, so too do people think they'll really love something and find out that they actually hate it.

Oddly enough I completly agree with what you said here. In case you've missed it I spoke up saying I liked the game even though the mass majority of votes on here were against it. I very much understand not everybody likes everything. I continually amaze Pyro at the seemingly random bands I do and do not like that he loves. It makes for some amusing conversations but because I don't like Opeth and he does doesn't mean I'm gonna talk shit about the band except in jest. Oddly enough he got me to like Dethklok (or however it is spelled)  Just because I like Hellgate doesn't mean I expect any of you on here to, but I figured I'll throw out my 2 cents (or about a dollars worth at this point I think).

Quote
Xero, personally, I am not judging the gameplay. Like Que and Scottws have said, we are just turned off by the whorish attitude. The game could kick a lot of ass.

Thats understandable Pug, I think its kinda crappy to but I'll still play the free online play. I may not get the Guy Fawkes mask for the Nov. 5th stuff, or the other goodies they come out with but I still have a good game to play for awhile.

Oh and Que, decaf man. I thought Keeb's was supposed to be the angry one.  ;D
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, November 06, 2007, 06:26:30 AM
Quote
Thats perfectly fine. I did however admit to Pyro  sometimes I think this board has a very heavy mob mentality.  Now that could just be because you all share such close opinions on things you tend to agree or something as far fetched as its just easier to agree. Hell I'll be honest, I've been playing devil's advocate through this just to see someone disagree.  At the end of the day I bought the game, I play the game, anyone who wants to run with me is welcome and everyone else can do whatever else they want.

You haven't seen our "serious" boards have you? haha...

Que and I have had our angry exchanges, though its all good in the end.. :P

I think we are all in agreement about Hellgate, but we do differ on games a lot as well. For example Que dislikes Neverwinter Nights, Splinter Cell, Halo, most human beings, and cute little puppies. I happen to like all of those... well except for the human beings.

He loves pure shooters like Painkiller, Serious Sam, Pure Puppy Killer 6, and Doom 3. I didn't like those as much as he did, so yea.

In fact if you asked all of us to list things in common you'd be surprised to note that nothing aside from goat pr0n makes the list.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xessive on Tuesday, November 06, 2007, 06:38:54 AM
You haven't seen our "serious" boards have you? haha...

Que and I have had our angry exchanges, though its all good in the end.. :P

I think we are all in agreement about Hellgate, but we do differ on games a lot as well. For example Que dislikes Neverwinter Nights, Splinter Cell, Halo, most human beings, and cute little puppies. I happen to like all of those... well except for the human beings.

He loves pure shooters like Painkiller, Serious Sam, Pure Puppy Killer 6, and Doom 3. I didn't like those as much as he did, so yea.

In fact if you asked all of us to list things in common you'd be surprised to note that nothing aside from goat pr0n makes the list.
Hahaha you guys are awesome :D

I'm curious about Hellgate, but I'm a singleplayer advocate and the impression I'm getting is that it's more of a MP with a complementary SP campaign.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, November 06, 2007, 08:39:07 AM
Again, Xero, I didn't mean to seem confrontational at all.  But I was a little wired last night, heh.

I think we're all roughly on the same page when you get down to it.  Nobody's bitching about the game itself, because we're all fans of such Diablo-style RPGs, and I'm sure we'd all enjoy it (I played the alpha, so I do know to some degree what to expect from it), and those of us abstaining are mostly doing so just because of the financial model and some of the other stuff.  If you look back far enough, you'll find that most of us were pretty excited about hopeful about this in the beginning, many of us well into recent development.

And yeah, I'd say there are a *few* things where a lot of us happen to agree, but you'll find an awful lot of disagreement here over certain things.  Even Halo.  It has plenty of supporters here, they just aren't always as vocal about it.

But that's what I like about it here.  Pug and I are buddies even though I've said and done horribly jackassish things in the past, and he doesn't hold them against me because he has come to accept the fact that I'm an idiot.  Most of us get along pretty well here, even when we don't agree on things.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, November 06, 2007, 09:34:04 AM
I'll have you know that it was I who was the jackass. :P

See Xero, we can't even agree on that.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, November 06, 2007, 11:03:46 AM
Pure Puppy Killer 6 is out already? Time flies when you're having so much fun.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, November 06, 2007, 04:07:59 PM
Xero, I think you'll come to learn that we are a very opinionated bunch when it comes to control of our computers.  When someone comes around and starts peeping at what else is installed, in some cases uninstalling or disabling other software, or refusing to run their software due to what is found, or even simply sending out what's there, we don't like it one bit.

As far as the for-pay model, as I said before we aren't used to paying for what Hellgate is charging for and it is rubbing people the wrong way.

But I think you're right when you say we seem like a very opinionated bunch and sometimes succumb to mob mentality.  To be honest though, we are a community of what... 30 people?  I think there is a reason we stuck together for so long.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, November 06, 2007, 11:58:19 PM
http://pc.ign.com/articles/832/832739p1.html

IGN 6.8


Quote
Closing Comments
At the end of the day Hellgate: London delivers an experience that is fun for a few hours but quickly grows repetitive. The stat-driven combat takes the player one step away from the action and the modular levels and peripheral nature of the story keeps players from investing in the world. Balanced against that are levels that are virtually teeming with enemies and a loot and upgrade system that gives you a real sense of progress every minute that you play. Your own enjoyment of Hellgate will naturally depend on your tolerance for the repetitious levels and your overall desire to find the perfect combination of skills and items that will allow you to take on the toughest of the game's challenges with ease. Unfortunately for Hellgate, our tolerance and desire levels just aren't what they used to be.


I find funny is that PCG have given it 89%, and are the only respectable publication to give it such a high score... I mean that high?

Is it a coincidence that Hellgate made their cover not long before, and they had the developer do a huge editorial in the back pages? I think their score was trying to save face.



----------------------------------------------

Just checked out the PCG forums. Check this thread out:

Hellgate London Subscribers: Check with your bank now (http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28780)


Quote
I'm posting this here simply to make people aware. The HGL subscription service currently has "a bug" that is overcharging some, but not all customers. Those affected are being billed DAILY what should be charged monthly, quarterly, annually, etc. For example I signed up for 3 accounts (2 kids play as well) on the 2nd and have been billed for another $30 on the 3rd, 4th, 5th and today. Some have reported the lifetime subscription being billed repeatedly.

I have been unsuccessful in getting a response from their support team. A call to their number (listed on the last page of the manual) got me nowhere. They said contact my bank. In the support forums they claim they are "working on it".

I'm sure they are but the subscription service is still taking new customers. I made a post like this one in the HGL forums and within an hour over 100 people replied that they had no idea they were being overbilled until reading the post and contacting the bank. The thread was suddenly deleted and my account was banned. Ciest La Vie. Hopefully PC Gamer realizes this is important and allows viewers the opportunity to not let their bank funds be squandered. I'm happy to reword/repost in a different topic if this isn't the right one, but don't just shut it down and let people find out after even more charges.


Quote
there are also reports of 90% subscriptions ending right when you cancel them, even if you have 29+ days left to play.

not like we didn't see this coming, beta testers were screaming bloody murder on nearly every public forum - i love how non beta testers were so pepped up on fanboy hype as to flame and dismiss what we said, now they know why we said it.

Quote
I don't like this game and have no idea of buying it for many reasons. But The way they are handling it, like deleting your thread and forum account is lame and unprofessional. If anything they should have just given an explanation and apology and just locked the thread. But deleting it like nothing ever happened is just childish. I hope PC gamer will show that it's got some balls and make this very public. Like they did with Bioshock's anti-piracy crap.


I went to the forums to talk about the lack of LAN play. While some fanboys jumped me, a LOT of people expressed support. Within HOURS the thread was removed. It is like there is a marshal law on these forums.

Well some guy beat me to it:

Hellgate: London review: 89%?!?! (http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28660&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

Quote
It's been a long time since a game inspired so much hate in so many people. It's really quite amazing.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, November 07, 2007, 04:26:22 PM
GamePro interviews Roper in regards to the HG community and critics alike. (http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=145448)

Quote
GP: I can imagine. I've seen some really withering criticisms in those forums...

Bill Roper: I think there was some confusion about what the game was going to be initially, [particularly] free play versus subscribing. I think there's still a lot of that. It's honestly confusing to me about the way people react to the subscription option in Hellgate. It's been more of a challenge to us than we anticipated. The whole idea was to give everybody what they wanted. Because we're doing this hybrid model, it's almost like people try to figure out how we're screwing them... but we're not! For subscribers, it's actually less than other MMOs like Tabula Rasa or World of Warcraft [$9.99 versus $14.99]. We're not trying to hose you, we're just trying to give people what they want.
If you gave the people what they'd want, there would be no subscriber-fee.

Quote
But yeah, it can be tough to go on the forums. You try to explain things and interact with the community, but there's a small percentage of people that will never be happy no matter what. You could pay them $5 a month to play your game, and they'll complain that they want $10.
Pay me $5 or $10 a month to play Hellgate???

I'm sure us PC gamers wouldn't mind a check from Roper every damn month, even if it ain't for much. :P
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Wednesday, November 07, 2007, 10:59:13 PM
Seriously, I am starting to dislike this guy. He sounds like whiny child.

From the reviews I read, this game has next to zero storytelling. How does it qualify as an MMO?

Anyway I found an Asian only version for $19. I am going to go for it.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, November 08, 2007, 08:39:25 PM
7.0 from GameSpot.
And oh, Gertsmann reviewed it. (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/hellgatelondon/review.html?page=1&sid=6182588&tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot)

Quote
Hellgate: London is a likeable action role-playing game that answers the question "What would happen if you took all the loot lust from Diablo and fit it into a first-person shooter?" OK, maybe you weren't asking that question, but Hellgate is an interesting game. It will probably come into its own after a few more patches, but right now, it has almost as many issues as strengths.
Why did EA and Flagship have to ship the game so early???

Quote
The game takes place in London, naturally, and it's the near future. A large gate to hell--some might call it a "Hellgate" of some kind--has opened and demons have been spewing forth from it. The storyline has you, as a character in one of six classes, falling into an adventure that puts you on a path to seek out various oracles, kill a whole lot of demons, and eventually penetrate the Hellgate itself. But the storyline is rather limp. It's best conveyed by prerendered cutscenes that play out between each of the game's acts, but there are hours of often poorly written quest dialogue text and flat character exclamations between those cutscenes. The game can't seem to make up its mind as to whether or not it wants to be serious or funny, and the characters that have been placed in the game for comic relief don't work very well, with the possible exception of a guy who, through your actions, ends up having a small demon hump his face for the rest of the game. The game also has a handful of technical issues, including frame rates that randomly take a dive and hard lockups that, depending on when they occur, might make you play through a significant chunk of the game again.
Damn....

Quote
This storyline plays out the same way whether you play offline or online, which essentially means that the offline mode is useless. The main point of this game is collecting loot and upgrading your character. Considering that you'll find a ton of loot that your character class can't use and that the most important part of tricking out your character is the ability to show it off to other people, there's no good reason to play offline.
There's a point to playing it alone -- to play it by yourself and w/out worrying about a need to be on the Net to play the game!!

But, I think what Gertsmann means is that there's so much loot, you might want to play it online so that you can share it w/ others, since you won't carry most of it yourself. :P

Quote
While you can certainly play the game online for free and experience most of what Hellgate has to offer, you can also subscribe for $10 a month. Right now, the main benefits for subscribers are access to a harder difficulty setting, more character slots, and more room to store gear. You also get to partake in various themed events. There have been two such events as of this writing, one based on Halloween and one based around Guy Fawkes Day. These events add a few quests, but their primary function so far seems to be adding a bunch of annoying little drops to the game, such as apples, potatoes, or blueprints, for pets and stuff. Considering you have limited inventory space, it all just gets a little overwhelming.

If you love hoarding stuff and don't mind repetition, Hellgate: London is a really neat but often uneven game that will probably keep you busy for at least a month or two, even if you don't subscribe. But, for many, the game's issues will be a real deal breaker. If you're on the fence, you might want to watch the game's patch notes to see how many technical glitches, as well as other annoyances, are cleared up.
Sounds like Gertsmann is NOT impressed w/ the subscriber stuff at all -- especially since he thinks there's at least a good deal to do right-out-the-box w/out the subscriber stuff; even if you play offline and alone.

I don't think many are impressed w/ the subscriber stuff, though. :P

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, November 08, 2007, 09:59:33 PM
Seriously, I am starting to dislike this guy. He sounds like whiny child.

From the reviews I read, this game has next to zero storytelling. How does it qualify as an MMO?

Anyway I found an Asian only version for $19. I am going to go for it.
Haha he sounds like he's having trouble at home and just taking it out at work :P

Really?! Every MMO I've played was like minimal on the story, except for the all-too-common main quest to "save the world."
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: scottws on Thursday, November 08, 2007, 10:30:45 PM
I find the story complaint interesting as well.  I mean it sounds like Diablo to me with the video between acts and I've never heard anyone complain about Diablo's story.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xero on Thursday, November 08, 2007, 11:10:58 PM
I disagree with him about the story. Its a neat little story. Its no Half life or Max Payne (Bad examples but my brain is fried from working) but I am enjoying it.  The NPC's sometimes can be a little boring but they have a some random one the say things like this merchant I found. You go talk to him and he sings "I need money for booze and whores!" or "Come back if they faulty $%^ I sold you doesn't blow up!" Little side quests are nice distractions.  A templar wants to date a hunter female, whose idea of a date is sending him out as bait while she snipes safely away at her game. You help him by setting up a defense so he doesn't die.

The main storyline itself is of a nobody soildier whose stumbles accidentaly upon the way to defeat hell and then you progress through. Thats about all I say for those who want to play through eventually but its pretty neat I thought. Again no Oscars will be won but its a decent storyline IMO.

Right now from everything I see the subscription is a bit on the BS side. Besides the extra character slots and bigger stash, you are getting holiday items like Guy Fawkes day. Pretty much thats all they've added atm but if they actually come through with all the stuff they promised it would be worth it. Right now.....not so much.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, November 08, 2007, 11:22:05 PM
I find the story complaint interesting as well.  I mean it sounds like Diablo to me with the video between acts and I've never heard anyone complain about Diablo's story.

No that's what I was thinking. But Diablo did have some story and a great atmosphere. I just read the review, and apparently the sparse dialog is poorly written and senseless, as if it were a foreign game.

Quote
So what makes Hellgate worth playing? That's the craziest part. Hellgate: London is saddled with a variety of issues, yet it still manages to be totally addictive and compelling because it expertly handles one of gaming's oldest clichés: new stuff. New items and money are constantly popping out of enemies when you mow them down. Each item--even the ones that aren't suitable for your character class--is also useful in some way. You can, obviously, sell items back to any merchant in the game, but you can also break items down into base components that are the backbone of the game's crafting system. With a blueprint, some runic fragments, and a whole mess of rare tech boards, you can make new items. But you can also use those same items to upgrade your existing gear. When you find the exact type of rifle or a pair of pants with bonus stats that really help out your character, you can use these components to make sure the items remain useful as you (and your enemies) get tougher. This means you never really have to outgrow your gear, though you'll also find plenty of new, useful gear as you play.

They were selling the official local market version for $20, so I bought it.

I might wait for patches though.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, November 09, 2007, 02:45:38 AM
Well I decided to install it on Vista, and it wouldn't run. Apparently on Vista with an 8800 there are some 'memory leaks' that are causing problems.

So I fired it up on XP, and from first impressions, it is pretty cool. The game feels like you are in Diablo except thrust into first person. I've only tried a blade master so far, but the combat is addictive and a lot of melee fun.  Unfortunately it does lack in the 'oomph' factor.

Even Oblivion with its simplistic combat had a lot of impact where it mattered. Still I can see myself playing this for hours.

I am not sure if it is a bug, but there doesn't seem to be music music?

Now for the bad stuff. While the opening FMV is awesome, the game seems to lack the atmosphere of something like Diablo. Plus interacting with NPCs is extremely disappointing.

It feels like the game's engine was constructed, the combat and skill system fine tuned, and the storyline and NPC interaction slapped on in the last minute. The NPC interaction is ridiculously bad. You click on an NPC, and dialog just rolls out, without it even appearing like it is coming from someone. The NPCs feel a bit detached.

I am afraid this isn't something that can be corrected with patching, and is something players will have to live with. From first impressions, it seems like the only time you will care about an ingame character is during the FMV. While in Diablo the storytelling was thin, the main storyline that carried was strong, and the the sparse dialog was exchanged with some style.

And the animations do appear to be a touch goofy, but maybe that's me.

Will post more once I play again after patching.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, November 09, 2007, 05:43:07 PM
75 from ActionTrip (http://www.actiontrip.com/reviews/hellgatelondon.phtml)
71% from YouGamers.com (http://www.yougamers.com/reviews/13987_hellgate_london/)

GamersWithJobs.com gives no review, but they do basically say "go play Diablo 2 for 6 months, while Flagship fixes the issues with the game" (http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/35706)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, November 10, 2007, 08:39:17 PM
Always seems to be something up w/ this game.

The Asian localized version of Hellgate has an new issue, too -- to use the new patch, you will need to wipe your character out..... (http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=82619)

Quote
Hellgate Asian Character Wipe [November 10, 2007, 6:28 pm ET] - 28 Comments

Kotaku has word on issues applying the update dubbed Patch0 to the Asian Hellgate: London servers run by IAH Games (thanks nin). While the western launch of Flagship's action/RPG has been decidedly rocky, the troubles with the eastern launch have been more dramatic, and it turns out that a complete character wipe will be required to implement the required update. As a result, they are offering free subscription time to impacted players, and they say that future patches will be installed at the same time on eastern and western servers. The character wipe and patching are planned for Monday.

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, November 11, 2007, 05:19:41 AM
Thank god I didn't get very far or I'd be really upset.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, November 11, 2007, 10:41:03 PM
Man, this game seems like a lot of hard work gone to waste for lack of a little more.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, November 12, 2007, 06:51:56 PM
To Xessive
Man, this game seems like a lot of hard work gone to waste for lack of a little more.

I'm probably gonna wait until it's like $20 and a load of patches are behind it.

I don't pay full-price for Beta-in-a-box.


EDIT, Dec 1st, 2007:
GameOver Review
70% from GameOver (http://www.game-over.com/reviews/pc/Hellgate:_London.html)

EDIT, Dec 4th, 2007:
1Up Review
4.0 from 1Up in this not-so-nice review. (http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3164383)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, December 20, 2007, 09:47:45 PM
SP Patch 0.6 has been released. (http://www.hellgatelondon.com/support/patches)
Quote
Single Player Patch 0.6 - DECEMBER 18, 2007

North America and Europe Only

General
•    Fixed a known issue with the inventory user interface that caused the client to lock up.
•    Fixed a bug which caused the Mini-game to sometimes become stuck.

Graphics
•    Fixed a texture memory leak that occurred when inspecting armor items. This will improve long-term memory usage, especially for players that frequently buy, sell, and analyze items.
•    Overall memory usage improved, especially in Stations. This increases client stability, reducing “memory exhausted” crash issues.

UI
•    Many new UI sounds for better player feedback.
•    New error message/sound when a character attempts to purchase an item without enough gold or room in their inventory.

Skills

Guardians
•    Prayer of Healing cannot be used while poisoned.

Blademasters
•    Surge of Speed effects do not stack with Adrenaline boosts.

Summoners
•    The Summon Reaper cool down is now fixed and independent of other Minions.

Hunters
•    Escape displays its rate of use.

Engineers
•    Drones stats/items now save on logout.
•    Drones now properly receive Armor and Shields when equipped with armor using the Armor Retrofit skill.
•    Improvements to Haste Bot per-level effects.
•    Molotov Assault now has a splash damage component in addition to its field effect.
•    Fixed a bug that caused items equipped on an Engineer Drone to be unequipped when the Engineer summoned the Drone after changing levels.

 
Quests
•    PDA quest item no longer drops to the floor.
•    Fixed various known issues which prevented players from being able to continue interrupted side-quests.
•    Quest items should no longer remain in the player inventory after the associated quest has been completed. Players with old quest items (such as Train Parts) associated with quests they’ve already completed or no longer have should find these items removed.

Items
•    Dual Focus and Dual Melee affixes no longer spawn.
•    Rebalanced Health and Power regeneration affixes.
•    Fixed known bugs that caused players to sometimes lose items.
•    Fixed a bug with the Nanoforge that caused it to inaccurately modify the stats of higher-quality items.
•    Fixed a bug that sometimes caused Unique items to drop without special properties. Old unique items that did not have special properties are not changed by this fix. We are looking into whether we can fix the old items, but we don’t currently have a solution.
•    Items dropped in the world now have slightly lower overall feed requirements.
•    Analyzers now work as expected on stashed items.
•    Random recipes (including those found at Crafters) no longer produce Unique items.

Monsters
•    Addressed numerous sync issues with Ravagers.

Environments
•    More chests have been added to the Underground Cave passage set.

World Movement
•    Fixed known issues which occasionally prevented characters from being able to load or switch instances.
•    Fixed several issues with players getting stuck in the world.
•    Fixed a bug causing some players to become stuck at St. Paul’s in Nightmare difficulty.
•    Fixed a bug that caused players to be randomly teleported under certain circumstances.


MP Patch 0.7 went live (http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground/content-update-0-7-goes-live)

Quote
Multiplayer Patch 0.7 - DECEMBER 19, 2007

 

Memory Usage

    * Memory manager rewritten for better performance and stability.
    * Fixed a UI-related memory leak.
    * Fixed a clothing and armor texture-related memory issue.

 

User Interface

    * New Looking For Group interface that allows players to more easily find each other for creating specific groups.
    * Reorganized the De-modificator, Augmentrex, and Nanoforge interfaces to appear in the left-hand panel area.
    * Added an auto-transparency feature to the chat window.
    * Players can skip all logo splash-screens with a single click.

 

Nightmare Difficulty

    * The difficulty of Nightmare has been rebalanced. More overall experience is earned in Nightmare levels, scaling of group experience and difficulty has been improved, and the overall level progression has been adjusted.

 

Skills

    * Fixed skills being added to and/or removed from Shift activation when swapping weapons.
    * Investing a skill point into an Aura skill will no longer automatically cause it to activate.

 

Templar

    * Taunt skills are no longer reduced in effectiveness when in a group.

Blademaster

    * Path of Righteousness now applies damage from offhand melee weapons.

 

Guardian

    * Prayer of Retribution can now be used while poisoned.
    * Prayer of Healing can no longer be used while poisoned.

 

Cabalists

    * The Summon Ember and Summon Fire Elemental skills no longer conflict when granted through items.

 

Evokers

    * Fixed a bug that caused Drain Power to charge an upfront power cost.
    * Tempest’s targeting range has been increased and properly loses targets that move out of range.
    * Fixed a bug which prevented Boneshards from having any effect on every other cast.
    * Fixed a bug which prevented Evokers from using any other skills for two seconds after casting Boneshards.

 

Summoners

    * Hand of Nostrom correctly adds more beams as the skill level increases.
    * Fixed a bug which sometimes caused the Warper minion icon to not display.
    * Master of the Flame skill effects now display properly in the skill description tooltip.

 

Hunters

 

Engineers

    * Engineer Drone behavior improved.
    * Fixed a bug that allowed Repair Drone to be used at no cost.
    * Drones will now level properly along with their owner. Existing Drones that are below your character’s level will automatically be raised to the correct level.
    * Drones now receive correct health bonuses with skill level after they are re-summoned.

 

Marksmen

    * Overshield now gives the correct amount of shields.
    * Fixed a bug that prevented Homing Shot from activating properly.

 

Quests

    * Fixed a bug with the Cannon Street Rails quest.
    * Fixed a bug in the Helping Hands and Triage quests where Maxim and Arphaun occupy the same place.
    * Fixed a bug with the Regular Customer quest where Slaughterbeast occasionally wouldn’t spawn as expected.
    * Characters stuck in the Holborn station after completing the game in normal mode should be able to progress.

 

Items

    * Improved the drop rate of analyzers and various recipes.
    * New blueprints have been added for Focus Items and Boots.
    * Focus Items and Boots can now be made by crafters.
    * Fixed a bug where already activated Auras would turn on and off when swapping weapons that grant Aura skills.

 

Guilds and Groups

    * Fixed a bug where players were not seeing Guild invites.
    * Introduced new Auto-Party logic to provide better matches.

 

World Movement

    * Fixed additional instances where players were sometimes randomly teleported when other people used portals.
    * Players can now use the /stuck command when in Ghost form.
    * Fixed rare instances where certain areas were impassible.

 

Miscellaneous

    * Fixed a bug where Founders saw all character names in blue text.
    * Fixed rare issues with being unable to properly apply the Multiplayer patch.
    * Fixed a bug with mods on weapons not being properly equipped when loading a character.
    * Fixed rare cases where the PRD became unusable.
    * Fixed a bug where numerous pets would show up in Stations.

 

---

 

Special Subscriber Features

The survivors of London are keeping their spirits up by celebrating the season and sharing some Holiday goodies with our subscription members:

 

The Transmogrifier

This mystic box transforms the junk you put in it into something new and wonderful. When you discover a new Transmogrifier formula, it is automatically stored in a special recipe list.

 

12 Unique Items

New Unique weapons spread across all three factions.

 

Patch Notes Disclaimer: While we make every effort to include all upcoming changes in our patch notes, please be aware that occasionally some changes are unintentionally omitted.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, December 28, 2007, 06:59:55 PM
I must say, this must be one of the best packaged Collector's Editions I've ever seen. The case itself is big, beautiful art-work on it, and folds open like a huge-ass book. So, on the inside of the case, the new usual-sized retail DVD-game case on the right-hand side (with the Game Disc and Bonus Disc DVD's inside), all in its own little slot. On the left-side of the case, is your Art Book in its own little case. I can guess that even those who spent full price for this Collector's Ed are wondering why people bought the Regular Edition for not too much less.

I haven't tried the SP yet.
Puggy, is the SP much different from the MP?

I've been playing the MP, basically. It's like Diablo II just went into the sci-way future and into full 3D, but into third-person viewpoint behind the shoulder-view. So, yeah -- it's VERY addictive and a lot of fun to just slay things, to say the very least.

What's funny, is I've been looking around for the in-game advertising that comes w/ this thing. So...Where the hell is it??!!?

About loot -- oh, tons, tons, tons, and more tons. If you're one who likes to go loot crazy, there's plenty to find and do here. You can upgrade it, mod it, break it apart to get parts from it (like Guild Wars), sell it, and do all kinds of other stuff w/ it.

I got most of my settings on Medium on 1024x768. On these settings, it runs like a dream, always above 30 FPS. Graphically, it does look good -- but, nothing spectacular and outstanding in technical direction to really blow you away. At least it runs very well; even w/ a lot of stuff happening on-screen, not much of a drop-off for me, really.

The opening FMV was awesome. I thought, w/ the way it opened and all, that we'd have a lot to care about w/ the game story and whatnot, w/ it introducing characters and the production values and voice-acting that were put into it; it was awesome, to say the least!

Well, after playing hours w/ this game, about the story and about the dialogue -- eh, it seems like it is basically there just to give you quests and stuff; even more so true than Diablo II did. Not much voice-acting it seems, either; most of the dialogue is written like it is in Guild Wars. Though, there is voice-acting -- y'know, like greetings and stuff (like in Morrowind when a character sees you, they say a greeting to you) and maybe for the occassional main quest. Nothing to really write home about on the story-depth, character-depth, and whatnot.

A lot of quests to do, it seems, as the game just seems to keep throwing them at you to take. Though, they usually seem to be "Kill X amount of enemies in this location," "get X amount of special items and bring me these back", or "go kill this big bad-ass boss." Typical RPG-action fanfare.

I'm a Blademaster. Seems, there's a nice amount of skills at your disposal to learn, upgrade, and whatnot. So, yeah -- the skill trees reminds me of games like those found in say Diablo II and Titan Quest.

So, yeah -- if you liked Diablo II, you're gonna' find this to be quite fun, I'd think. I'm quite enjoying this one, to say the least.

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, December 28, 2007, 11:18:23 PM
The opening FMV was quite amazing, I must agree. I actually didn't play past the first impressions.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 29, 2007, 06:35:15 AM
The opening FMV was quite amazing, I must agree.
What gets me is the opening FMV is so good w/ everything -- the characters, voice-acting, the dialogue, and everything. It really plunges you into the world and atmosphere instantly, and you begin to care about the characters b/c the presentation is so good. You think the game might actually be this way, as well...

(click to show/hide)

But, yeah -- so you jump into the game and its like -- "What happened to the dialogue, voice-acting and story?" heh. There hasn't been much added to it, since that FMV, unfortunately...

There's a plot; a thin-one, but it don't have much depth to it. And the NPC's, they really don't have too much personality themselves.

Quote
I actually didn't play past the first impressions.
Ah, okay!

EDIT:
Does anyone else around here have this game and play MP???
Would be cool to form a party w/ some people from here.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, December 29, 2007, 07:53:36 AM
haha right. All the production values went into the FMV. The gameplay feels dry.

People say it is like Diablo, but Diablo wasn't just about hack'n slash. Well it was mostly about that, but it had a great atmosphere as well.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 29, 2007, 10:21:43 AM
haha right. All the production values went into the FMV. The gameplay feels dry.
I think the action itself is great -- and it better be, since this is the main force driving this game, since they really didn't do too much w/ the story and all.

I hope there's an expansion pack so that they can really boom us w/ say a better story, character dialogues, and all of that stuff -- b/c at least HG: London has a great foundation, combat-wise. I really do love the combat in this game -- control-wise (WSAD or cursors for controls), it feels like Painkiller turned into an RPG; especially w/ the amount of monsters thrown at you, basically. On the RPG part of things -- of course, it feels like Diablo in 3D and in the future.

Quote
People say it is like Diablo, but Diablo wasn't just about hack'n slash. Well it was mostly about that, but it had a great atmosphere as well.
Diablo II's towns, they all had a different feel and look. Act 1's town had one specific look, while Act 2's town has the Egyptian/Middle Eastern vibe going on. So did many of the dungeon areas, as well -- had different window-dressing. Since you were always hacking, it did help you want to see these new areas. This helped kept the redundancy factor down, to an extent.

HG: London's stations/hubs (which are basically towns and meeting places, like say a Guild Wars has so players can meet up and whatnot), so far mostly feel like carbon-copies of one another, but w/ different colors slapped on top of the walls; and w/ different NPC's there, though. Granted, I'm not too far into the game -- I'm on Act 2 now -- but I hope we have sore different looking stations and stuff, as time goes along. I don't expect it, though -- given what I've seen, so far.

HG: London, especially for its main quests, really could benefit from having some good voice-acting; especially if they could've kept those voice-acting production values from the FMV and into the game's main quest. Sure, they could skip giving side quests voice-acting, if they wanted -- but the main stuff should be voice-acted, I think. I say this b/c the main quest always should be felt to be most important; it's supposed to be why you play the game, you know; its supposed to be the most depth-filled and most important part of the game. That's what NWN did -- unique voice-acting for main quest stuff, though the side quests likely would not have voice-acting; and it worked-out quite fine.

Regardless of my complaints, I'm still really enjoying HG: London. It's tons of fun, namely b/c of the combat and the loot (tons of loot, can break them apart, upgrade, modify, etc etc).
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, December 29, 2007, 11:36:17 AM
Yea that's the problem. Just when you were getting tired of the setting in Diablo II, you moved on to something completely different in the next act. HG:L environments start to get boring.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 29, 2007, 02:52:05 PM
Yea that's the problem. Just when you were getting tired of the setting in Diablo II, you moved on to something completely different in the next act. HG:L environments start to get boring.

Exactly, Pug.

I mean, HG: London's environment itself is not boring. They're actually quite quirky and cool, w/ it being in a futuristic ravaged London and all...

...But seeing the same cool environments and areas over-and-over which often come off as "cut & pasted" to another location, is like my whole Halo feeling -- "Ummmm...wasn't I just here not too long ago? Can we switch these environments up a little bit even??"

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 29, 2007, 10:22:12 PM
Damn, I've played this thing a lot today. I'm like Level 11 or so now.

I'd like to say, the mission on the Battlefield where you have to Fortify the defense turrets and help some teammates out....freakin' awesome.

The plot's adding up, but it's still way too thin. I wish it had way more depth...

Oh, and the Techsmith 314 and Lucious characters -- especially when they interact w/ each other -- are hilarious. I wish the other NPC's were as interesting and unique as these two guys are.

EDIT on 12/30/2007:
I got through with what I think is so far, the best quest (it's part of the main quest) and the most unique of environments in the game.

If only the rest of the game was as cool, crazy, and as interesting as this one part.

It's very Psychonauts-like in a sense, BTW....
So, here we go...

The "314" Quest
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Wednesday, January 02, 2008, 02:08:35 PM
If anyone is interested, you can get the EA download version on eBay for around $20.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, January 05, 2008, 04:36:17 PM
$20 for a download version? Hmmm.....I wonder if the SP needs you to connect to the Net to play. If not, that's great.
 
You know the MP will need you to, which is fine -- it's MP and ties the game itself to your account. 


I'll be honest -- I really like Hellgate.

I mean, I've already made my way through Act 3 now; barely had it a week. Can't stop playing it.

I just keep taking on more quests than you can wiggle a stick at. The game doesn't seem like it will run out, either -- are some of the side quests randomly generated or something???

And yet, still w/ all of the few repetitive-looking environments used over and over, lack of voice-acting for the main quest, a lack of story depth, a variety of quest-types, and some lack of actual character/personality, I still can't put this goddamn game down...

...I really tell you -- it's the damn action, the amount of skills, numerous different types of enemies/bosses, and the ridiculous unique loot quantities that keep me going, to the point I'm often unable to put it down. I'm pulling apart loot for parts, upgrading loot, selling loot all the time, etc etc. And I'm always looking forward to seeing the next piece of loot and what I'll do w/ it.

Overall, this game is a flawed gem.

I'd love to see an expansion to this; namely to add more different kind of environments to the game, add more character to the actual NPC's, and more story to this one.

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, January 06, 2008, 09:46:38 PM
I'm gonna speak on the Bonus DVD.
Namely, in regards to the soundtrack.

Yeah, so the disc itself tells you to copy the files over to your PC, if you like.
Yeah, and they are all WAV format, too.
And they are just numbered and partially titled, too.

Why didn't they just press another CD disc w/ the soundtrack and its track listing??

Kinda' lazy.

But, yeah -- I found on their message boards the track listing and stuff...

EDIT:
Sonic Mayhem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Mayhem) did the soundtrack for HG: London, BTW.

Worth noting -- they did the music for Quake 2, Dark Messiah, God of War 2, Stranglehold, and SC: DA.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, January 07, 2008, 09:28:20 PM
Huh... I didn't know they were still around.  I rather enjoyed the Q2 soundtrack when it was current.  I thought they did something for Q3 as well, though.  Might have just been music "inspired by".  I remember one track that was just pure awesome.

EDIT - You can thank me later (http://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/quake-iii-arena-noise).
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, January 11, 2008, 09:43:56 PM
If y'all didn't know, Patch 1.0 will be adding a new area to the game -- Stonehenge.

Click here to check out a trailer for this new area. (http://www.incgamers.com/tv/media/171/Hellgate_Stonehenge_Trailer/)

And if you're a paying subscriber, well -- you can already actually test this area out.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, January 12, 2008, 02:33:41 PM
I'm moving the post I made here, which was on HG: Earth.
I went way off-topic in the Space Siege thread about HG: Earth, so I'm moving it here.

Y'know, instead of the subscriber stuff HG: London is doing...
I'd really like to see a true Hellgate expansion.

Actually, let me go even further.
I'd REALLY like to see Hellgate: Earth, once Flagship decide to actually do that.

(They have hinted at this in The Making Of The Game DVD and in past-interviews)

That's supposed to be what's next -- where all kinds of different locations all over the sci-fi futuristic world get attacked all over the globe; Paris, NY, Russia, etc etc.

We dunno if that'll be a expansion or new game yet...
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, January 12, 2008, 02:40:11 PM
Get laid dude.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Jedi on Saturday, January 12, 2008, 03:07:31 PM
I sometimes wish I could be so absorbed in games again like D life was so much easier when my biggest issue was finding a decent party in WoW or if my PC would run a game.

Oh and hahaha.  :)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, January 12, 2008, 04:31:14 PM
Well of the 16 posts before the one where I laid out my advise, D had 11. That's 11 out of 16 lengthy posts that belonged to him, on a game that only one other person from this forum has played... me. And I've given it only an hour.

He is so dedicated. :P

Here I should probably heed my own advise, after wasting time on the following:

(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6339/dviseio0.th.jpg) (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dviseio0.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, January 12, 2008, 05:02:31 PM
Well of the 16 posts before the one where I laid out my advise, D had 11. That's 11 out of 16 lengthy posts that belonged to him, on a game that only one other person from this forum has played... me. And I've given it only an hour.

He is so dedicated. :P
That's kinda like when we had our NWN2 Thread and NWN2: Mask Expansions Thread, the only ones really saying anything about these games was you, me, and Xessive. That's it -- after the original NWN here which many found disappointing around here, nobody gave the expansions a chance; even when they got dirt cheap. For that matter, nevermind the NWN2 sequel -- even more of a brush-off. It's kind of a shame, too -- NWN only got better w/ each expansion. And NWN2: Mask was a major improvement over NWN2: Original itself in every regard; especially in the technical performance department. Plus, NWN2: Mask had one of the best stories in a RPG since PS:T.

Hellgate, it's just so much fun; it just feels like those old-school grindfests and loot-gathering games, where you just hack-n-slash; a la Diablo II. Unfortunately, it does take a little bit too long for the story to really get worthwhile and actually interesting. Didn't really begin to pick up, until you start assembling the demon. Unfortunately, it doesn't have too much depth to it. And unfortunately, the presentation on the main quest really lacks; not much voice-acting and no style of any in-game cut-scenes found here which are now in many of the new games (like even Guild Wars and NWN2). Hopefully, they can improve on these things in an expansion AND in a true-blue sequel.

Without having any subscriber stuff, I'm still having a lot of fun w/ the stock game. And I've definitely spent LOTS and LOTS of time w/ this game, since I got it back not too long around X-Mas. I'm done yapping; gonna go try and keep this game going.

I'm in The Final Act; Act 5.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xessive on Saturday, January 12, 2008, 11:37:52 PM
I'm willing to give Hellgate a shot, but according to all I've been hearing it's best to wait for some serious patching.

Hehe that NWN2 thread is still kicking somewhere in the back pages :P

EDIT:

I just peeked at Pug's little bit of art :P Hehe I love "Meow" bit ;D hehehe

While I put the Modify/Edit option to good (though almost abusive) use I think MyD posts another reply in order to bump the thread or get attention.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, January 13, 2008, 07:01:49 AM
I'm willing to give Hellgate a shot, but according to all I've been hearing it's best to wait for some serious patching.
I've got most stuff on Medium -- runs very well in 1024x768. Never below 30 frames. NEVER. Even when the screen's jammed w/ loads and loads of monsters.

The few bugs I've hit are very little stuff

1. Portals not working to go to next area even though you are supposed to be able to enter them -- had that happen like twice, so far, so I conjured my own portal back to a Town/Station. That or I sign off and sign back on; it'll take you back to nearest Station.

2. Portals say that you can't enter them w/ a "Forbidden Entry" message above it but you already took a quest to enter that area so the portal will actually open up to let you in  -- no big deal, since you can advance to where you're supposed to go.

3. Quest logs not displaying details of the quest but if you turn the quest on as "Active" it'll display the quest details in the right hand side of the screen; some game crashes cause a PC reboot.

Yeah, since I'm on Quest stuff. In your Quest Log/Journal, what's cool about making a quest "Active" in the log is you can make a bunch active at once on the list! When you do so, while in-game and just playing, on the right-hand side of the screen, your active quest list will show on the right hand side of the screen, in one small sentence. And yes, it will update itself, as you go along and perform parts of the quest, too -- very nice feature. More games should do this. Usually, when I make quests active, I usually make the ones that are in the same area active at once, since it will only show like 5-6 of them at once, on screen in 1024x768.

Quote
Hehe that NWN2 thread is still kicking somewhere in the back pages :P
Somewhere. :P

EDIT -- Jan 13, 2008, around 9:08 pm Atlantic Time:
Okay, I just finished the game. Yeah, it was a good game. And the last final few fights were freakin' awesome and tough as hell.

Though, the ending felt way too abrupt; kind of like Bioshock. It just feels like it ends way too quick.

ENDING Discussion

The Narrator Of The Game....
(click to show/hide)

The Twist At The Very End
(click to show/hide)



Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, January 18, 2008, 04:31:18 PM
About Stonehenge areas for upcoming Patch 1.0....

...On Monday Jan 21st, Hellgate: London - Stonehenge will be coming.

AND Stonehenge will be subscriber content. (http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground/stonehenge-launch-date-set)

Quote
Stonehenge Launch Date Set
HELLGATE: LONDON GOES TO STONEHENGE


Explore New Environments, Conquer New Demons and Find More Phat Loot
in the First Chapter of the Hellgate Chronicles


The fight for humanity is spreading away from the streets and sewers of London and moving all the way out to the mystical areas surrounding Stonehenge – or what’s left of it. The first installment of the ongoing Hellgate Chronicles is going live for subscribers on Monday, January 21st, 2008.


Stonehenge is a huge outdoor hub accessed through a special portal in Templar Base, connecting players to several new and exciting quests. Heroes will find themselves in completely new open, outdoor wilderness areas unlike anything seen within the city limits of London, battling terrifying new demons and bosses and finding new items very distinct in their appearance. This action-packed update includes:


    * The Caste Caves – Unlock four unique dungeons, one for each caste of enemy – Beast, Necro, Spectral and Demon – to seek and destroy a powerful overlord that resides in each cave. Defeating them and collecting their heads will allow you to continue the adventure…


    * Moloch’s Lair – Only after collecting the heads from the Caste Caves will heroes be allowed entry into the lair, with a chance to defeat the legendary Moloch, one of hell’s most imposing minions who carries very unique items that can only be obtained by defeating him in combat. And because Moloch’s soul is eternal, this quest and it’s rewards can be a never-ending challenge.


    * The Wild – These three mini-raid areas present players with difficult obstacles but also huge rewards with three levels that get increasingly more difficult even with the recommended full party size – you will need a small army to get through these challenges.


In addition to the above, The Stonehenge Chronicles also includes many of the other updates the Hellgate: London community has been asking for, including improvements to game UI, a large number of skill balance changes, a PvP dueling arena and more. Hellgate: London subscribers can also now pay for their subscriptions via PayPal and PayByCash. For more information on payment options and a full list of notes for this update, please visit www.hellgatelondon.com.

EDIT, Jan 19th, 2008:
Bill Roper has this LONG, LONG interview w/ Gamespot about HG: London -- talking about the rocky beginnings of the game (technically), the upcoming HGL: Stonehenge Content, the future for the Hellgate IP, how well the game's doing in the Korean Market, and so forth and so forth... (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184912.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6184912)

Quote
Q&A: Bill Roper opens up on Hellgate
Flagship Studios CEO and cofounder details the first major content update for hybrid action-RPG and addresses the game's rocky beginnings.

By Tom Magrino, GameSpot
Posted Jan 18, 2008 5:23 pm PT

Diablo held a special place for many fans of action role-playing games due not so much to its combat mechanics or storyline, but its addictive item collection system. This concept has been taken to the next level with Flagship Studios' Hellgate: London, a game which seeks to blend fast-paced shooter gameplay with deep RPG-oriented customization and item collection. And that's no wonder, considering the studio was founded by former Blizzard Entertainment brass, including Diablo creators Bill Roper, Max and Erich Schaefer, Schaefer, and David Brevik.

Rather than having the experience limited to how much content was packed into the box when the game shipped, Flagship Studios offers an optional pay-to-play subscription model, which promises regular updates to the game to continue fueling gamers' desire for fancier and more powerful items. For those who have decided to pay, Flagship will be releasing its first major content update for the game on January 21.

Titled Stonehenge, the update extends Hellgate's borders to the eponymous druidic artifact outside London, adding three new areas to the game and a host of new quests, items, and encounters. The Stonehenge update also adds a number of UI tweaks, as well as makes significant skill balance changes ands adds in a player-versus-player arena, in addition to other changes.

For more on Stonehenge, as well as to get an update on how Hellgate has evolved and appreciated in the past several months, GameSpot spoke with Flagship CEO and cofounder Bill Roper.

GameSpot: The Stonehenge patch was initially slated to arrive before the end of the year. What prompted the delay?

Bill Roper: When we started talking about the Stonehenge patch, we wanted to get it out to players because we were so excited about what we were adding to the game. We were pushing to get Stonehenge released before the end of the year, but we realized that we wouldn't be doing the right thing to push it out before it was ready and properly tested. After looking at what we wanted to accomplish, we decided to take the time necessary to make our first major content patch right. If there's one lesson we learned from launching Hellgate: London, it was that our releases should be a question of "what" and not "when." We just felt that we would be doing everyone a disservice to push this out before it was right. We're proud that we still met our original promise of providing a major update within three months of the game shipping, and we'll continue to work on major releases on a quarterly schedule.

GS: What features implemented in this patch is Flagship most excited about?

BR: Adding our first non-linear game play elements in the Essence caves and Moloch's Pit, the first of our raid-type content in The Wild, making our first major class balance pass with the Evokers, and starting to refine our player-versus-player play by adding a dueling arena. There are also a host of tweaks, from animations to items to crafting to skills that everyone will be happy to see.
Non-linear stuff -- cool. :)

Quote
GS: Hellgate launched with more than a few serious bugs. Was this a matter of staying true to the ominous Halloween date, or were outside forces to blame?

BR: Honestly, we tried to do too much with the game. We created our own engine, tools, and online destination from scratch in just a few years. We are really proud of the work we did, however we were perhaps a bit too ambitious.

If we could have waited another three months to ship, we would have, but the challenges of an independent game studio are much, much different than what we had during our days at Blizzard or the guys at Arena.net face (since we often see comparisons with them and Guild Wars) as they were owned by NCsoft before they had to ship. We don't shy away from the fact that Hellgate: London was far from perfect when we launched, but we've also stayed dedicated to the game and our players and have been exerting every effort to make amends and get the game to what we envisioned. We're thankful to our fans that have stuck with us, and encourage people who maybe tried the game when it launched or never checked it out because of early concerns to give us another look with The Stonehenge Chronicles.
I'm glad he's honest about how the game wasn't technically sound, upon its release. Some designers just seem to think they can't do no wrong...

Quote
GS: Is the game viewed internally as an MMO, or more of a single-player game with online elements?

BR: Internally we treat the game as an MMO because we're constantly working on improving it and creating new content. The challenge with launching Hellgate: London was that it was both a single-player stand-alone game and an online game. This meant our focus was divided at times, but now that the game is out, we're all about working with the online community to get them the features that they want and making the play experience better and better.

GS: MMOs launching while still riddled with bugs seems to be a recurrent theme in the industry. Do you ever see this changing? Will there ever come a time when an MMO will launch without an oppressive amount of technical issues?

BR: The truly massive amount of design, art, code, balance, and testing required to put out an MMO is far beyond any other type of game. This means that it is practically impossible to catch everything before you launch unless you were willing (or more realistically, able) to have the game in advanced test for six to nine months. And by advanced testing, I mean the game being in a state where the developers think they are close to release quality. Unfortunately, even the best and biggest MMOs launch with serious issues. Being able to basically sit and iterate on a game for over half a year isn't something you can really sell to a publisher, or fans, to be honest. As gamers, we all want great games, but we also want them right now, so it is a difficult line to walk.

Fortunately most players forget about those starting problems after they have been addressed--as long as the core game is fun and the developers have proven that they are willing and able to work on the game experience. We've seen that if a developer shows their commitment to the game experience and their players, the gamers understand the complexities involved in launching an MMO.

The hard part for any MMO launching now is that they are inevitably compared to games that have been on the market for years. People forget that the current reigning champs on the field didn't launch with all of the features and options and polish they have now. All any of us �new kids on the block� can do is to stay dedicated to improving the game, keep talking with our community, and get the word out that the game today is vastly improved over when it launched. That is the upside of creating an MMO. You can keep working to make it the experience that your players want.
Okay.

Quote
GS: It's common rhetoric from MMO developers after the first few months that the game has been out that significant improvements have been made, and people should come back and try the game again. What were some of the most griped about early problems that you all feel you have a handle on now?

BR: The team has worked incredibly hard to smash the biggest, nastiest bugs that we shipped with. A high-level list (and this is FAR from complete in terms of everything done) of what has been addressed includes:

Client-side crashes due to memory issues
Invisible party members
Improved chat, grouping and general UI
World movement and getting stuck in certain geometry
Quest blockers
Tons of skill fixes, tweaks and balance changes

We've also added a lot of persistent game play features. The top ones on this list being:

Achievements: These are long-term goals that players can work toward which provide completion points. These points will be able to be spent on special perks and bonuses.

The Transmogrifier: An item that allows players to discover recipes which allows the alteration and creation of items. It also doubles as extra inventory space!

And with the Stonehenge Chronicles, here are two examples of what we are adding:

Essence Caves: These adventuring areas off of Stonehenge introduce non-linear game play by offering repeatable quests that can be done across multiple character levels. Unlocking and completing these caves leads to the final confrontation against Moloch the Pit baron who has rich and extremely rare rewards. The best part is, this sequence can be done multiple times and the encounters scale with the level of your character or party.

The Wild: This area attached to Stonehenge Introduces our first party-specific zone, allowing players to go on mini-raids. The difficulty of these areas are balanced for groups only, so players will have a real reason to group up with their friends or guild members to claim new, powerful rewards.
Cool.

Quote
GS: It's often the case that several months after launch, some combat classes simply aren't panning out as expected. Have you all identified any classes that are in store for an overhaul?

BR: We are constantly looking at all of our classes and making adjustments, both small and large. The Stonehenge Chronicles sees our first big sweep on the Evoker class, as well as some tweaks on the Guardian auras. We're continuing to give all of the classes in-depth evaluation and will be making everything from tweaks to whole-sale changes as required. We're also very close to starting up a �Team Advocate� program where specific members of our community will be organizing feedback in several areas from our player base and then speak directly with the design team to see these issues addressed. We have a lot of very passionate players in our community, and we think this will be an invaluable way to best get their feedback and improve the game.

GS: With the most recent update, Hellgate will be further expanding its boundaries outside of downtown London. How far do you see this geographical expansion going? Will the game eventually evolve into Hellgate: Britain? Hellgate: Europe?

BR: We've always planned to move the game play into areas outside of London, as well as using some places within the city that we haven't yet explored. We have a lot of ideas on where we think good story and game hooks exist, as well as places that we think would just be cool from a visual and game play standpoint. Other areas within the UK are definitely on the drawing board, including some ideas outside of Britain.

GS: Do you see future expansions delving more into the geographical regions of Earth or the bowels of Hell?

BR: Yes! We have ideas both for areas around the world as well as digging deeper into the realms of the underworld. One of the great things about the universe we've created with Hellgate: London is that we have a massive amount of areas to explore and expand into.
I'm definitely looking forward to Hellgate moving outside of  London and to other locations throughout not just Britain, but also in the entire world.

Quote
GS: As with Diablo, one of the primary draws of Hellgate is the addictive item collection. Are future item updates simply going to focus on the bigger/stronger aspect of new gear? How do you all plan on keeping players interested in the items?

BR: Players always want bigger, better, and rarer versions of what they know, so we'll do that. We also have some ideas for all-new item types that we'll be rolling out in the months ahead. It is really a combination of refining the items in the game, creating improved and rarer versions of the existing items, and introducing new concepts. The exciting thing for us is that we really didn't have much a chance to add new item types in the Diablo days, so we can really see how the game will expand in terms of item choice and combinations in Hellgate: London.
I must admit, the amount of items you can find and do all kinds of stuff w/ in HG: London is crazy. It's one of the main reasons I just couldn't put this game down -- kind of like what I felt about TQ and D2.


Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, January 19, 2008, 07:20:55 AM
My last post was too long, so here's Part 2 of it, from the Interview w/ G-Spot in the above post.

Quote
GS: One of Hellgate's primary claims to fame is its hybridization of first-person shooter and RPG gameplay. Does the game's current gameplay fit the original concept, or what kind of compromises had to be made to reach the current balance?

BR: We always wanted the game to be an Action-RPG first and foremost. The FPS elements that we added were designed to contribute to that style of gameplay and that goal has been reached fairly well. At the same time, we wanted the game to be very approachable by a large group of people. Many of the current FPS games are difficult for more casual gamers. We were able to maintain the feel of an FPS while still keeping the game RPG focused.

That being said, we have been talking about ways to make our guns and gameplay feel better to FPS players through different sound and animations, as well as looking at some different skills.

GS: Were the hybridization elements a direct effort to break the mold of traditional MMO gameplay? Do you feel there are any specific aspects of the game that break new ground that other MMOs creators will attempt to replicate?

BR: We set out to make a game that would be different and fun. Perhaps we tried to do too much, but in doing so, we came up with some very fun ideas and concepts that are outside the MMO norm. We built a game that is much more centered on action and fighting larger groups of monsters rather than pulling a single creature and fighting it with modal attacks. We elected to make the entire adventuring instance-based to allow players to have the exact experience they wanted, and being able to be more selective with who they play. We chose a setting that was outside the �classic fantasy� that 99 percent of MMOs use, and created a world that blended reality, sci-fi, and fantasy. We also tried to create a hybrid business model where players could buy the game, play it as a stand-alone game, go online and play the game for free, and then subscribe for additional content.

Will any of our ideas be used by other developers in the future? Who knows--but it would be a great compliment if someone did since, as developers, we tend to be the harshest critics of all.

GS: What is the climate like in the MMO industry? What is considered a success in the wake of WOW?

BR: WOW is an aberration in the industry, and you can't base your success on how it compares. To be honest, this has almost always been the case with Blizzard games. We constantly exceeded our own goals and dreams when we were there, and we recognized that we had reached a rarified status. The MMO space is incredibly crowded right now, and to a good extent, that makes sense. It also means that there are a lot of us competing for the mindshare of gamers. If you can get your game launched--a rarity in and of itself--and then get enough players to keep the doors open while you continue to build on the core experience, that is successful. If you look at a game like Eve Online, for example, they started with a very small number of players, but had enough to sustain themselves while they grew the game. Today, they have a healthy and dedicated player base that makes them a success story.

GS: What do you think MMO developers need to do to break down WOW's stranglehold on the industry?

BR: I don't know if anyone can consciously do this. Blizzard didn't set out to monopolize the space with WOW. It became a cultural phenomenon through years of hard work, good timing on the release, having a quality game, and luck. All a developer can do is make the best game they can, stay connected to their community, and iterate on the game to make it what their players want. The publishers have to be willing to put a lot of time and resources into the game--including being willing to let it sit in test for far longer than any other sort of game there is. And even then, there is no guarantee that the game will do well. MMOs are the biggest crap shoot developers and publishers can make, but the potential for rewards has a lot of people rolling the dice all the time.

GS: Is WOW even a competitor? Is Flagship's focus more on bringing in new audiences rather than pulling gamers away from WOW or other MMOs?

BR: We never focused on trying to take WOW players, or to specifically steal players from any game. There is a lot of talk in our industry about stealing players from other games because we all know that there is a limited pool of people that will play an MMO, and that MMO players tend to stick to one or maybe two online games. Our goal was to reach out to the gamers that we felt were under-represented in the MMO space--the action-RPG fans. We also hoped to draw in some traditional MMO players, and maybe even some FPS players that wanted a way into the MMO space that felt more familiar to them. The best thing you can do is try to expand the global player-base for MMOs. It's something that WOW accomplished, and as we've always believed, any game that brings in more gamers overall is a great thing.

GS: What kind of response have you all gotten from the optional pay-to-play business model? Is the paying option proving to be popular or meeting expectations?

BR: In hindsight, perhaps we should have only talked about how Hellgate: London had free online play and not talked about the subscription service until we were announcing the Stonehenge Chronicles. A lot of the misconceptions and uncertainty over what players got for subscribing would have been avoided, and the whole model might have made more sense to people. By trying to offer a delineation of services on day one, a lot of people just got confused or upset because they saw the players in the other side of the fence as having some sort of advantage. We don't see this between MMO players that do and don't buy an expansion set, for example, so somehow we had bad messaging or timing on what we were offering. We really hope that players who experience The Stonehenge Chronicles will understand what we've been trying to do with this since the beginning.

GS: What regions is the game available in? How has adoption of the game in those regions compared to the North American market?

BR: The game is available all across the US and Europe, as well as in Singapore for Southeast Asia. The game has done well in all areas, although PC in general was down this past year. We're working very hard to get the word out about what we've done to improve the game and online play experience in all these regions.

We just started our open beta in Korea, and it is going incredibly well. The numbers we are seeing are tracking very well compared to the top MMOs there, and we are feeling very good about meeting our goals there. The players in Korea are definitely seeing the benefits of all our work on their day one, so we hope that players here are going to give us another look, as well.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, January 21, 2008, 08:53:30 PM
MP Patch 1.0 info.
Patch should be released soon, even though it's been delayed.
Here's the patchlog from HGL's site. (http://www.hellgatelondon.com/patches/100)

Here's some info.
Quote
Multiplayer: The Stonehenge Chronicles - JANUARY 21, 2008

North America and Europe Only
The Stonehenge Chronicles
Update Notes

Happy New Year!

2008 is upon us, and we’re thrilled to be kicking it off with our first major update – the Stonehenge Chronicles. We’ve got a lot in store for all of our players, so let’s get to it!

In this update, you’ll see the first of the big balance sweeps we’re doing on all of the character classes. Both the Guardian and the Evoker got a lot of attention this time around, and we hope that players of those classes will dig into how the classes play now. We’re making it simple for these players to get a handle on the new balances by allowing them to completely respec their characters.

PvP is starting to get more attention with the introduction of the Dueling Arena. This both makes dueling easier to accomplish and also gives us a better and more accurate way to track play habits and stats – a key to really increasing this section of the game.

There’s also a whole slew of other overall improvements, tweaks, and additions, so take a couple of minutes to go through the release notes and see what’s new.

For our Subscription Members, we’re opening the portal to Stonehenge! This is a completely new area that not only has new items and monsters, but also completely new ways to experience the game.

The Essence Caves are the first of our non-linear style of play. You can repeat this long quest chain multiple times throughout the career of your character as it scales with your character (or party) level. The rewards are rich and many of them are unique to the Stonehenge area.

The Wild is also a new type of game play since it is focused exclusively on group play. You need big groups to have success out there – and the deeper you get, the harder it gets. It’s time to get your friends together!

We’ve got lots more in store, and we’re working on every aspect of the game. Thank you all for your support over the past couple of months. We’re listening and doing all we can to make Hellgate: London what we all want.

See you online!

Okay, below is all the new stuff, fixes, and changes for ALL Gamers that are using MP Patch 1.0.
Quote
General
Based on the number and depth of balance changes to skills in this update, certain characters will be provided a “respec token” that allows them to reassign their skill points. This token is automatically placed in the character’s inventory and can be used at any time.

All Evokers and Guardians will receive respec tokens, as will all characters in Subscription Member accounts.

PvP
A Dueling Arena has been built for those who wish to test their mettle against each other. When challenging another character to a duel, the invitation dialogue indicates that the duel will take place in the Arena. When the duel is accepted, both characters are instantly transported there.

When both characters have loaded into the Arena, a countdown begins. During the countdown, characters can move, but they cannot use skills, activate items, cast spells, or attack their opponent. After a duel has been won, the defeated character is reset, as is their opponent and a new countdown clock begins. Players can leave the Dueling Arena by activating their Recall device.

Players can still duel in other areas by joining the same party and activating their /pvp flag as before.

Group Play

    * Increased experience and treasure bonus for groups. Characters now receive more experience and treasure on a greatly accelerated scale based on number of players in a group.


    * Fixed a bug where grouped players that were separated from the rest of their party were receiving extra experience for all of the other group members.


Graphics

    * Templar melee animations have been tweaked for smoother combat flow.


Memory Manager

    * Party members will now show up in higher resolutions. Players will not see the change until they move to a different zone and users must have Textures at least set to High.


User Interface

    * The Mini Map is now set to the top right of the screen with character state icons appearing below.


    * The Chat Window is now scalable. To adjust the size of the chat window, hold down the ALT key. There is a small tab in the upper right hand corner of the chat interface that can be used to resize the window.


    * The LFG interface has received new functionality. To activate the LFG Interface, simply press the ‘P’ key.
          o The screen has been re-arranged to allow for more information and additional features.
          o Party Leaders can advertise existing groups to add new members.
          o Individuals can advertise themselves as being available for a group. To instead create an entirely new group, select the CREATE PARTY option. Otherwise, the character is listed as an individual looking for a group to join.
          o New search filters have been added to better find the right group dynamic.
          o Players can now Invite, Join and Whisper to individuals or groups listed in the LFG interface.


Skills
There are a wide variety of balance tweaks across the Templar and Cabalist factions.

Cabalist:

    * Brom's Curse
          o This spell now heals a fixed amount based on the attacker's level instead of being based on a percentage of the attacker's health.
          o The rank progression of this spell has been adjusted. Brom's Curse affects up to 4 targets for 5 seconds at rank 1. The maximum number of targets is increased by 1, the duration increased by 1 second, and the amount healed is increased by 12.5% per rank.
          o This spell may now be cast while moving.
          o The range of Brom's Curse has been increased to 20 meters.

    * Afterlife
          o The power cost of this spell has been reduced.

    * Elemental Drain
          o The power cost of this spell has been greatly reduced.
          o The casting time has been reduced by 1 second.

    * Word of Fear
          o The Fear Attack Strength of this spell now properly scales with the caster's level.
          o The base Fear Attack Strength of this spell has been increased by 25%.
          o The rank progression of this spell has been adjusted. Word of Fear now gains 33% more Fear Attack Strength per rank.


Evoker
Skill Rank bonus descriptions have been updated and normalized to be based on their initial rank 1 effect. For example, Spectral Bolt now displays no Phase Attack Strength bonus at rank 1, but displays a more clear bonus of 25% Phase Attack Strength per additional rank.

    * Spectral Curse
          o Spectral Curse now also reduces targets' movement speed by 10%.
          o The rank progression of this spell has been adjusted. Spectral Curse now affects up to 4 targets for a 5 seconds at rank 1. The maximum number of targets is increased by 1, the duration increased by 1 second, and movement speed penalty increased by 5% per rank.
          o This spell may now be cast while moving.
          o The power cost of has been reduced substantially, and the range has been increased to 20 meters.
          o The explosion damage caused by Spectral Curse has been increased.

    * Drain Power
          o The damage of this spell has been increased significantly.

    * Drain Life
          o The damage of this spell has been doubled.

    * Arcane Shield
          o The rank progression of this spell has been adjusted, providing slightly less shields at lower ranks.
          o Arcane Shield is unaffected by the Evoker's movement.
          o This spell now lasts for 10 seconds with a 25 second recast time.

    * Concentrate Damage
          o The rank progression of this spell has been adjusted. Concentrate Damage now provides a lower initial damage bonus, but grants a greater bonus per rank. Concentrate Damage's new damage bonus progression surpasses its previous curve damage bonus progression at rank 4.

    * Summon Ember
          o The rank progression of this spell has been adjusted. Additional ranks of this skill now provide 15% more damage instead of 20%, but the base damage of the Ember pet is significantly higher across all ranks.
          o The Ember's Health, Damage, Ignite Attack Strength, Critical Chance, Interrupt Strength, Interrupt Defense, and Armor have been increased.

    * Firestorm
          o The rank progression of this spell has been re-designed. Additional ranks of Firestorm now provide a 5% increase in damage rather than an increase in Ignite Attack Strength. Firestorm surpasses its previous damage at rank 3.
          o The Ignite Attack Strength of this spell has been reduced.
          o The range of this spell has been increased to 10 meters.

    * Flameshards
          o The Flameshards spell has been re-worked. The number of shards fired is now fixed at 7, but multiple shards stack with each other. Individual shard damage has been decreased slightly to take damage stacking into account.
          o Increased ranks in Flameshards now increases each shard's Ignite Attack Strength by 25%.
          o The spells now has a cool-down time of 2 seconds.
          o This spell's power cost has been decreased.
          o The base Ignite Attack Strength of this spell has been increased by 25%.
          o The range of this spell has been increased to 25 meters.
          o The explosion delay of Flameshards has been decreased to 1 second.

    * Hellfire
          o This spell's casting time and initial power cost have been reduced significantly. Additional ranks now provide a slightly smaller decrease in power cost.
          o This spell now has a cool-down time of 2 seconds.
          o The damage and Ignite Attack Strength of this spell have been increased substantially.
          o The range of Hellfire has been decreased to 25 meters.
          o The targeting of this spell has been fixed.

    * Spectral Bolt
          o The rank progression of this spell has been adjusted. Spectral Bolt now provides an additional 25% Phase Attack Strength per rank. The initial Phase Attack Strength of Spectral Bolt has been slightly increased.
          o The power cost of this spell has been decreased, and the Phase duration has been increased by 1 second.
          o The cooldown of Spectral Bolt has been decreased to 1 second.
          o The base Phase Attack Strength of this spell has been increased by 25%.

    * Spectral Lash
          o The damage of this spell has been increased by 35%.

    * Spectral Lash Mastery
          o The damage of the explosion caused by this spell has been doubled.
          o The rank bonus of this spell is now applied to the explosion effect properly.

    * Lightning Field
          o The damage of the Lightning Field has been increased substantially.
          o The power cost of this skill has been decreased.
          o This spell now has a cool-down time of 2 seconds.
          o The rank bonus tooltip now properly displays a 15% instead increase in radius.
          o The splash damage of the initial effect has been increased by an additional 17%.

    * Tempest
          o The casting time, power cost, and cool-down of Tempest have been decreased.
          o The base damage of Tempest has been decreased.
          o The strike frequency bonus per rank of Tempest has been decreased to 10% per rank.
          o Each Tempest cloud now lasts for 15 seconds and has a range of 15 meters.
          o The rank bonus of this spell now properly increases the frequency of lightning strikes.

    * Arc Legion
          o The rank progression bonus of this spell has been changed. Additional ranks now increase the Shock Attack Strength and Shock Effect Damage of Arc Legion by 25%.
          o The range of this spell has been fixed at 18 meters.
          o The damage of this spell has been increased.

    * Demonspine
          o The rank bonus of this spell has been slightly adjusted to a 25% increase in Stun Attack Strength per rank.
          o The power cost of this spell has been decreased.
          o The damage of this skill has been increased.
          o The base Stun Attack Strength of Demonspine has been increased by 20%.

    * Boneshards
          o The rank bonus of this spell has been slightly adjusted to a 50% increase in Stun Attack Strength per rank.
          o The damage of this spell has been increased by 60%.
          o The cooldown of this skill has been decreased to 6 seconds.
          o The base Stun Attack Strength of Boneshards has been increased by 25%.
          o The power cost of this skill has been increased.

    * Skullsplitter
          o The rank progression of this spell has been adjusted. Skullsplitter now begins with 12 fragments and gains 2 additional fragments per rank.
          o Skullsplitter now explodes into a significantly more predictable nova pattern.
          o The power cost and cool-down of this spell have been slightly decreased.

    * Venomous Spirit
          o The damage of this spell has been increased and the power cost has been decreased.
          o The Fear Attack Strength of this spell now scales properly with the caster's level and has been increased significantly. Additional ranks of Venomous Spirit no longer provide an increase in Fear Duration.
          o The travel speed of the Venomous Spirit has been increased significantly.

    * Venom Armor
          o Several bugs with which allowed the swarms created by Venom Armor to bypass its intended cool-down time have been fixed.
          o The damage of each swarm created by this spell has been increased, and each swarm now lasts for a fixed amount of time on their target.
          o The initial armor provided by this spell has been decreased, but the absolute bonus to armor per rank has been increased, reaching the previous maximum armor bonus at rank 10.

    * Swarm
          o The rank progression of this spell has changed. Additional ranks in Swarm now increase the Poison Attack Strength and Poison Duration of Swarm by 20%.
          o The cool-down of this spell is now fixed at 6 seconds.
          o The power cost of this spell has been decreased significantly.


Templar:
Aura of Power, Aura of Renewal, Aura of Defense, and Aura of Salvation have been rebalanced. Additionally, their skill rank progressions have been normalized to provide a 33% increase in effectiveness per skill level. Blademasters and Guardians will now see more return on investment in these auras.

    * Aura of Power
          o The power regeneration granted by Aura of Power has been decreased. At rank 10, Aura of Power grants 94% of the power it gave previously.


Blademaster

    * Call of the Chosen
          o The Taunt and Fear Attack Strengths of this skill now properly scale with the Blademaster's level.


Guardian

    * Aura of Renewal
          o The initial health regeneration granted by Aura of Renewal has been slightly decreased. By rank 10, this aura provides significantly more health regeneration than it did previously.

    * Aura of Defense
          o The armor bonus granted by Aura of Defense has been decreased.

    * Aura of Salvation
          o The initial elemental attack defense granted by Aura of Salvation has been slightly decreased. By rank 10, this aura provides significantly more elemental attack defense than it did previously.

    * Grand Aura
          o This skill now provides an equal percentage increase to the Guardian's Holy Aura radius at each rank, ending with the same total increase at rank 5 as it did previously.

    * Challenge
          o The Taunt Attack Strength of this skill now properly scales with the Guardian's level.

    * Denounce
          o The Taunt Attack Strength of this skill now properly scales with the Guardian's level.


Quests

    * Certain quests that could not be completed after defeating Sydonai because Emmera was no longer accessible can now be turned in to a new NPC named Sammy.


Items

    * Unique items that were found before Patch 0.5 that are missing special attributes may now be rerolled for free. The process is as follows:
          o All mods must first be removed using a Delux De-Modificator. This is available once at no cost for qualifying items.
          o Once all the mods are removed, insert the item into an Augmentrex 3000. Now click any of the three "Add Property" buttons to reroll the item attributes.
          o All item attributes will be rerolled and the item balance will be up-to-date. If the item level was previously upgraded with the Nano Forge, the additional item levels will be added to the newly generated base level after the item reroll. This means that the new item level may not be the same.

    * The Stun Defense granted by the Gyro Stabilizer has been increased.


    * Health and Power injectors now show up in high level stations.


    * Fire Extinguishers now give the appropriate Ignite Defense.


Monsters

    * Monsters with the Infested ability have had their damage reduced.


Crafting

    * The limit on number of times an item can be upgraded has been raised to 10.


    * Upgrading an item takes 50% less resources.


    * A new, rare salvaged material crafting material called Nanoshards are now required to upgrade items.
          o Nanoshards can be obtained from any item, but the chance to salvage one is increased when disassembling rarer items.
          o The number of Nanoshards required to upgrade an item increases each time the same item is upgraded.


Fixes

    * The mini-game now has a timer. This is partly a fix for characters at level 50 who have finished all the quests and get the quest icon and therefore cannot finish it.


    * Fixed a bug where characters would not save when they killed 65,534 monsters in one session.


    * Grappler no longer changes a character’s position in PvP.


    * Fixed a rare bug where equipping the Cleanser and a shield can delete the shield.


    * Fixed a rare bug where Templar could equip both the Cleanser and a shield.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, January 21, 2008, 08:55:25 PM
My last post would've been too long.
But, here's what MP Patch 1.0 includes for SUBSCRIBERS

Quote
Special Subscriber Features
Stonehenge is a new, non-linear adventuring area that can be accessed through a special portal in Templar Base. The quests and areas around Stonehenge scale in difficulty to challenge characters of any level. This is to allow players to return to this section of the world numerous times and complete the longer associated quests, missions, and raid areas.

Stonehenge itself is a new hub that holds a larger number of players than most Underground Stations. There are new NPCs, new quests, and most importantly, new adventuring areas that are unlike anything within the confines of London.

Quests
A new series of non-linear quests introduce the area surrounding the great druidic monument of Stonehenge.

The Caste Caves
These mystic caves can be found in the wilderness areas outside of Stonehenge. Each caste of demon - Beast, Necro, Spectral, and Primus – has a powerful overlord that resides in these caves. The caves themselves are sealed by the essential aspect of their master’s caste. These caves cannot be entered until the essence of five (5) Champions of the matching demonic caste has been collected. Essence can be collected from any Champion, so adventuring above and below the streets of London may gain you the keys to unlocking these special areas.

Once a character has gathered the required essence of a single Caste, they can either solo or lead a party into the caves and battle against the resident overlord. Not only are there great and special riches to be won, but the head of the caste overlord is also claimed. Once a character has collected the heads of the Beast, Necro, Spectral, and Primus overlords, the adventure continues.

Moloch’s Lair
A great and powerful Demon known as Moloch resides in the rough countryside surrounding Stonehenge, and only the worthy may enter his domain. Characters that have collected the heads of the Beast, Necro, Spectral, and Primus overlords can then make their way deep into the realms of Moloch, the Pit Baron.

Moloch has very unique items that can only be won by defeating him in combat, so the journey to his defeat can be well worth the effort. His soul is eternal, however, so the process of opening his sanctum and destroying his corporeal form is a never-ending challenge.

The Wild
The other main area that lies outside of Stonehenge is known only as The Wild. The challenges here are far greater than anywhere else in or around London, requiring raiding parties to properly navigate them.

The Wild is divided into three increasingly difficult sections that are balanced for parties of six, seven, and eight. This is regardless of the number of characters that enter The Wild, so while you could try to make your way slowly with a smaller group, the going will not be easy.

Items
There are new weapons and armor that can only be found in the areas surrounding Stonehenge. These new items have very different appearances from those found within London, so keep a sharp lookout for them.

    * 13 new base weapon types divided amongst the Templar, Cabalist, and Hunters.


    * Each faction also has two all-new Helmet types.


Environments
Apart from the settlement that has secreted itself at the Stonehenge triliths, there are numerous new areas to explore. Chief amongst these are the various Caste Caves and grand expanses and dark forests of The Wild. There are also new undergrounds and interiors to explore scattered throughout the countryside.

Monsters
The areas around Stonehenge also have spawned new Demons. The Winged Imps rain death down from the skies and swoop in to sever heads of those foolish enough to seek them out. Burning Fiends move amongst the underbrush and between the windswept trees. Moloch, the Pit Baron, also makes his fiery presence felt for the first time.

Patch Notes Disclaimer: While we make every effort to include all upcoming changes in our patch notes, please be aware that occasionally some changes are unintentionally omitted.


Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, February 01, 2008, 07:59:35 PM
A bunch of stuff has been fixed for HG: London, w/ their newest MP Patch 1.1.
Link here for the notes on it.

A lot of fixes for non-subscribers.
And a handful of fixes for subscribers dealing w/ the Stonehedge content. (http://www.hellgatelondon.com/patches/110)

Quote
Multiplayer: Patch 1.1 - JANUARY 31, 2008

North America and Europe Only
Patch 1.1 Notes
January 31, 2008

Stonehenge has launched and we’ve been busy cleaning up a handful of issues, as well as listening to the feedback from our players on the Stonehenge Chronicles.

Thanks to everyone who has posted issues and suggestions. And in fact, you’ll notice that a lot of the fixes and features in this patch are linked to posts in our forums. When we’ve addressed something you’ve brought up, we want to acknowledge your contribution to the betterment of the game!

See you online!

The Hellgate: London Team

---

Genera

    * All Guardians, Evokers, and characters on Subscription accounts will have one Skill Retrainer when logging in after this patch goes live.
    * The timer and quest requirement have been removed from the mini-game.
    * Fixed a bug where chat entry became visible in the Character Select screen after logging in and then logging out of the game.
    * Fixed a crash bug associated with exiting out of the Character Creation menu.
    * Players that had beaten Normal mode with a character but then were unable to access Elite mode (and Hardcore mode for subscribers) with a new character should now have access to that game mode by logging in once with the character that completed Normal Mode.
    * Fixed a bug which caused audio and sound effects to sometimes stop playing.
    * Party and PRD Portals created by a character in a group will now properly close when that character leaves the group.


Monsters

    * The Beast of Abbadon, Oculis, and Sydonai will now re-spawn normally, even if the player has previously completed their associated quests.
    * Fixed a bug which would sometimes prevent Oculis or the Furuncle from spawning properly.
    * The loot algorithm for Ash (Beast Caste General) has been adjusted to drop better items.
    * Errgoth (Demon Caste General) now does less damage.
    * Stalkers and Burning Fiends are now part of the Beast caste and Tortured Souls are now part of the Spectral caste (to balance a disparity of Essence drop rates between castes). This applies to all types of Stalkers, Burning Fiends, and Tortured Souls.


User Interface

    * Offline friends are now properly displayed in the Friends List.
    * The “Player Requests” confirmation buttons have been reordered to [accept] [decline] [ignore].
    * Skill Retrainers now have a confirmation dialogue to help players from accidentally using them.


Items

    * Armors with the “minion damage bonus” affix now work for the Engineer.
    * Restorative injectors are usable when either health or power is below the player’s maximum since they can help recover both health and power for the user.
    * Increased the amount of Shields found on items and affixes, ramping up after level 10. Note that this change is not retroactive and will not apply to existing items; however, newly dropped items and existing items upgraded through the Nanoforge will receive the adjusted amount of shields.
    * Guild Heralds can now be sold back to merchants for full price.
 
Skills

    * Increasing ranks of Drain Power now work properly at all power ranges.
    * Increased the amount of Shields granted by skills that provide Shields.
    * Engineer Drones now come with a base armor rating.


Stonehenge Bug Fixes

    * Players may now Recall or Party Portal out of the Hell’s Heart level.
    * Party Portal limitations have been removed from the Stonehenge levels.
    * Stonehenge now appears as a destination on the Station Transit Terminal.
    * Stonehenge weapons can now have Mod slots.
    * The stash in Stonehenge now properly detects collision.
    * Fixed a blocking bug in the Essence Caves which prevented a portal into that specific Caste General’s Lair from opening.
    * Essence drop chance increased from 15% to 20%.
    * Fixed rare cases where Essence Caves were not connected to the next level.
    * Fixed bad pathing around the Stonehenge wilderness huts.
    * Fixed a bug causing additional Skill Retrainers to spawn when they shouldn’t have. Duplicate Skill Retrainers should now be removed.


Patch Notes Disclaimer: While we make every effort to include all upcoming changes in our patch notes, please be aware that occasionally some changes are unintentionally omitted.


Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: scottws on Saturday, February 02, 2008, 07:43:58 AM
Probably too late at this point.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, February 02, 2008, 08:56:27 AM
Yea the game went from record sales in its first week to absolute tank fest.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, February 02, 2008, 10:41:17 AM
Yea the game went from record sales in its first week to absolute tank fest.

You know, if EA didn't push the damn game early out the door, things might not've hurt them so bad. I mean, when I installed the game in late December, it ran damn good and I never hit any bugs. Which was not unfortunately the response upon the game's release, which was littered w/ performance issues and bugs back in late October.

My biggest complaints w/ HG: London was that the lack of presentation, lack of voice-acting in the main quest, lack of story-depth, take a little bit too long before the thin story gets going, lack of variety in quests. You know -- what's funny enough, is that this is all stuff Silverfall does better than HG: London -- shit, I figured it'd be the other way around!

Still, amazingly enough, despite those pile of minor issues, I had a blast w/ HG: London and couldn't put the damn thing down.

Really, they need to stop w/ this subscriber crap. I'd rather them make me pay one flat fee of like $5-10 fee just to buy some new Stonehenge content and it's yours forever -- kind of like what Oblivion did w/ its DLC content.

Though, I'd rather Flagship work on a new HGL Expansion or a new Hellgate game entirely. I'd really like to see Hellgate: Earth, whether that's an expansion or new game entirely, we'll eventually find out.



Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, February 02, 2008, 11:25:37 AM
Seeing as how you are the only one here who has finished the game, I doubt you'd get any meaningful responses. That will eventually change when I get around to the game.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: gpw11 on Saturday, February 02, 2008, 10:36:32 PM
hhahhaha.  OMG Chingy!!
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, February 03, 2008, 12:32:14 AM
hain?
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, February 03, 2008, 06:09:21 AM
Seeing as how you are the only one here who has finished the game, I doubt you'd get any meaningful responses. That will eventually change when I get around to the game.

Will that be by the time Hellgate: Earth comes out? :P ;)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, May 31, 2008, 06:45:51 AM
For those wondering what's up w/ HG: London, here's their plans for upcoming Multi-Player Patches 2.0 and 2.1 -- basically to add the new Abyss Chronicles content to the game (for monthly Subscribers). (http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground/lowdown-patch-2-0-and-2-1)

The more I look at all these HG:L updates and whatnot, the more I scratch my head and wonder why Hellgate didn't just do the Guild Wars approach -- give new in-game content to gamers just by letting them buy these extra pieces separately.

I really don't like the "you must pay-to-play and keep your MP-extra game content" thing, too.

Quote
The Lowdown on Patch 2.0 and 2.1
Discover that which awaits you in the Abyss, brave Hellgaters! The Abyss Chronicles (Patch 2) is rapidly taking shape and form and we’re ready to share some of its most exciting offerings with you. As Hellgate: London’s second major content update, the Abyss Chronicles boasts an impressive and lengthy list of new features including a major class rebalance, new environments, new enemies, new skills, new bosses, and new inventory slots . Then there’s the Consignment House, Attribute Respec Vendor, item linking, achievement rewards, and lots more. Suffice to say, the Abyss Chronicle is big. Very big.

Plans are already underway for the patches beyond the Abyss Chronicles. A small content summary for Patch 2.1 has been included as well. This update will open up an entirely new side to Hellgate: London in the form of ranked player versus player (PvP) gameplay. Originally slated for release with the Abyss Chronicles, the decision to release new PvP content as part of a supplemental patch was brought about by a desire to introduce five cohesive elements of PvP in a single update: ranking, matchmaking, rewards, achievements, and Capture The Flag. Together, these features will provide a robust PvP experience within the Hellgate: London universe.

---

The Abyss Chronicles (Patch 2) Content Summary

    * New Abyss Quest Line with Five New Boss Fights:
          o Travel to the all new Parliament Square and help Titus of the Cabal fend off the rapid spread of the Abyss, a new Demonic underground that grows in size as Demonkind consumes more of our world. The only way to halt the Abyss is to seek out and destroy those who control it. Lure the five Abyss Lords from their cursed realm by collapsing their Hellrifts (a new Rift for each of the boss types), then confront the masters as they emerge to investigate the problem. Five repeatable boss runs with five new bosses! Features three new environments and some reworked environments.

    * New Shared Stash System:
          o The Shared Stash will now feature separate panes for each gameplay mode: Normal, Elite, Hardcore, and Hardcore Elite. Items currently in your Shared Stash will be placed in the correct pane.

    * Major Rebalance of the Blademaster Class:
          o The Blademaster class has been significantly rebalanced with changes to almost every skill. Overall, they should d
          o more damage and have many more options than before. Some of the highlights include Strength now stacking on top of the skill percent bonuses – a huge boost – and Blademasters can now gain a Surge with any melee attack or with any melee skill (rather than just when killing something with a Surge skill).

    * Improved, Configurable Guild Controls:
          o Guilds will now have four titles they can assign to members. The titles can be renamed. There can only be one Guild Leader. Non-subscribers can only have the lowest title. The Guild Leader can configure what the middle tw
          o titles are allowed to d
          o including invite new members, promote and demote existing members, kick members, and send all-guild e-mail. The lowest title is not allowed to invite, promote, demote, kick, or send guild e-mails.

    * Consignment House:
          o Players can place items into the Consignment House to offer them for sale at a set price. All players in the same gameplay mode can see and purchase that item. The Consignment House currently only offers a “buy out” price, there is no bidding.

    * Three New Skills for all Classes:
          o Skill Scrolls are new items which unlock the new skills and allow skill points to be put into them. For example, the Spider Mine Schematic unlocks the Spider Mine skill for Engineers. The Skill Scrolls will be tradeable and can be used by all players; however, they drop off of boss monsters in the subscriber-only Abyss levels. Only a few of the skills will be enabled in the first Patch 2 build that goes to Test Center. Here are a couple sample skills to whet your appetite:
               1. The Summoner will get a melee demon transformation with zombie minions.
               2. The Blademaster will get skills that use up Surges to do things like perform a group heal.
               3. The Engineer will get Spider Mines.

    * Trinket Inventory Slots:
          o There will be two new Trinket inventory slots. The first trinkets will drop as cursed rings which can be cleaned up through the Transmogrifier. These cursed rings will mostly drop in the Abyss levels, but they can be found elsewhere too. These items are tradeable and can be used by all players.

    * Attribute Respec Vendor:
          o Bob, the Attribute Respec Vendor, will allow you to spend palladium to remove points one at a time from an Attribute and add them to your unassigned Attribute Points pool. The cost to remove each point goes up with character level.

    * Stack Splitting:
          o You will be able to right-click on a stack of items and select to split it into smaller stacks using a new radial menu option. A dialog will pop up and let you type in how many items to place in the new stack.

    * Gameplay Changes:
          o Character defenses against Secondary Damage Effects have been increased.
          o Shield Overload has been removed from sword weapons.
          o Strength has a much more significant impact on melee skill damage.

    * Item Linking:
          o Players will be able to enter a clickable “link” to an item’s details into the chat pane by right-clicking on the item and selecting the Link Item option on the radial menu.

    * Achievement Rewards
    * New Armor and Weapons for all Factions
    * New Monster Types
    * New Chat Color Scheme
    * Many bug fixes and performance tweaks.
    * A few more features yet to be announced.



Patch 2.1 Content Summary

    * PvP Ranking
    * PvP Matchmaking for Teams and Individuals
    * PvP Points and Rewards
    * PvP Achievements
    * Capture the Flag PvP Game
    * Improved predictability and balance for the attribute feed system.


We are hoping to get a Patch 2.0 build into Test Center next week, but we will see what happens.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, May 31, 2008, 01:04:10 PM
Fuck this shit. Go play Guild Wars.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Ghandi on Saturday, May 31, 2008, 01:56:18 PM
Speaking of which, I do plan on actually playing with you guys whenever my work schedule permits. Which means hopefully tonight if you guys are on.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, May 31, 2008, 03:27:20 PM
I wish I could guarantee something... but I'll be at Sy's probably for a while.  Not sure how long.  I will definitely, however, be playing all day Sunday.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Ghandi on Saturday, May 31, 2008, 07:35:42 PM
A haiku:

Sy's house is so lame
You know that you want to game
So lets play Guild Wars

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, May 31, 2008, 08:20:42 PM
Thats beautiful.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, May 31, 2008, 08:57:48 PM
Impressive.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, July 11, 2008, 03:51:05 PM
All kinds of madness happening w/ Flagship Studios.

First off, this stuff has been confirmed by Flagship -- they let go of some of their Ping0 (the in-game advertisers) and Flagship Studios staff.

Second off, this is a rumor -- take it as a grain of salt, until we know if it's true or not. Rumor has it HanbitSoft (that's the Korean game-development/publishing house that distributed over there in Eastern Asia HGL and Starcraft) is actually looking to take over HG Intelectual Property to turn HG "into a good game with proper content." (http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=89287)



Quote
Flagship Shake-up - Hellgate Takeover Attempt? [July 11, 2008, 4:45 pm ET] - Viewing Comments
First the confirmed story: Layoffs Confirmed At Hellgate Developer Flagship on Gamasutra has word that a Flagship rep has confirmed that "staff at both the Flagship development team as well as online services subsidiary Ping0 were let go." They also report contact from "source close to Flagship" that the company has been "going through internal turbulence."

Now for the part that's less clear, in what may or may not be related news: Hellgate Guru has a report based on a translation of a Korean news story saying that Korean operator of Hellgate: London, HanbitSoft, claims co-ownership of the Intellectual Properly for the game, and is looking to take full control of the IP to "properly manage and develop Hellgate: London into a good game with proper content." Their report quotes HanbitSoft's statement on their reasoning: "It is hard for us to accept Flagship Studios’ requests for continued support in capital and funding any longer and because Flagship was being difficult." They also have a response to the story from Flagship Studios calling the story an "outright lie," except they don't appear to be refuting the accuracy of the Korean news story, but rather HanbitSoft's rights to take over the IP, seemingly indicating that such an attempt may actually be underway. According to Flagship:

    This story is an outright lie. We have no idea where they are getting their information from and have asked legal counsel to pursue the issue. We are mystified by Hanbitsoft’s conclusions and any attempt to take over the IP will be met with a strong and swift response, to “illegally take over the IP”. All right title and interest in Hellgate; London resides in Flagship Financing, LLC a wholly-owned subsidiary of Flagship Studios. We are outraged that Hanbitsoft would attempt to completely tarnish the reputation of its most vital developer. Hanbitsoft’s new management clearly does not understand the terms of its relationship with Flagship.

EDIT:
And the drama keeps on escalating here.
Hanbit's lawyers supposedly contacted HellgateGuru site to remove the story.
Not only that, but they tried to clarify the situation a little bit, while they are at it...
I can only wonder how Flagship will reply... (http://hellgateguru.com/2008/07/flagship-no-longer-owns-hellgate-london/)

Quote
UPDATE #3: Someone claiming to be a lawyer representing HanbitSoft has requested for us to remove the story. We are ready to comply, but only if other websites and news sites reporting the story agree to do so as well:

    We are U.S. attorneys for HanbitSoft. Your story is a repeat of a quote that is not accurate and we request that you pull it down. At the request of Flagship’s attorney, we must correct the record:

    Please understand that the facts are (1) HanbitSoft is an exclusive licensee of both Hellgate and Mythos in Asia, with rights to sublicense the games; (2) in addition, HanbitSoft is a secured creditor who has been pledged the Mythos (but not the Hellgate) intellectual property as collateral for a loan; (3) Comerica, another secured lender, has been pledged the Hellgate intellectual property as its collateral for a loan; (4) Flagship Studios does not currently own the intellectual properties to either game, which are held in separate companies subject to the security interests of lenders, and Flagship Studios’ interest in those companies is also pledged to its lenders; (5) it is unfortunate that Flagship turned down additional investments HanbitSoft offered to make that would have allowed it to keep its doors open, but HanbitSoft hopes to work with Comerica and some of the team at Flagship to see if there is a way to continue to generate content to keep Hellgate online in Asia and to finish the development of Mythos.

IGN’s VE3D is also reporting the news. (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39851/Hellgate-Developers-Made-Redundant-Korean-Distributor-Takes-Control)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: scottws on Friday, July 11, 2008, 04:58:53 PM
They do ask for them to pull it down, but it seems the main purpose of the contact is to set the facts straight.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, July 11, 2008, 05:07:12 PM
What a clusterfuck.  This game was doomed to fail from the moment it released.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, July 11, 2008, 05:34:43 PM
What a clusterfuck.  This game was doomed to fail from the moment it released.

There are just so many factors that hurt this one.
I really don't know where to begin.

Bad Business Stuff
--Flagship partnering with EA to publish this thing.
--The whole EULA w/ Ping0 pissed many gamers off.

Online Portion/Subscriber Stuff
--The online portion just couldn't be decided on being a subscriber pay-for-MMO or free MP game. Seriously, they should've just picked either one or the other!
(I think it would've succeeded better if it took the usual route -- Free MP like Diablo II. And if you want new content, buy an "HGL Expansion pack" from them. That would've been a better business model than this subscriber crap.)
--"Subscriber" stuff was not being pushed out fast enough; and there wasn't much of it, either.
--"Subscriber" stuff was not even good, according to many subscriber, gamers, and reviewers.
--You can't keep "Subscriber" content, if you actually quit paying the monthly fee. Plus, the MP-subscriber content doesn't even roll itself over into the SP mode, either...
--"Founder's Fee" sounds ridiculous for a game that probably won't be around, years from now....

The Game
--The game itself has a lack of story depth.
--The game itself has a lack of presentation and lack of voice-acting for the main quest.
--The game was deemed Beta-in-a-box upon release.
(At least when I got it, all was well technically, even if it was WAY too late in many people's opinions...)


Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, July 11, 2008, 05:57:55 PM
And "subscribers" have been dropping their subscriptions like crazy, due to this newsbreak.
Also, something else has changed from the game -- the option for "Subscribers" to be able to un-subscribe from their "Subscription". (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39851/Hellgate-Developers-Made-Redundant-Korean-Distributor-Takes-Control)

Oh, man... this is something...

Quote
Update #2: Subscription options have been removed from account areas, as has the ability to unsubscribe. On the forums, the lock-happy mods have yet to touch a fifty-seven page complaints thread (http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=106599) that has spiralled out of control since the news regarding redundancies was released.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, July 11, 2008, 06:22:54 PM
Quick, somebody photoshop a flagship crashing into an iceberg and sinking.  While on fire.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, July 12, 2008, 06:02:14 AM
Let the drama continue...
It's getting really, really messy now.

VE3D's Andrew Burnes is reporting that Taylor Balbi of Flagship said Flagship is closing today and lost all their IP's. (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39866/Flagship-Studios-Closure-Confirmed-All-Staff-Fired-All-I-P-Lost)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xessive on Saturday, July 12, 2008, 06:20:09 AM
Wow, that's a kick in the nads for all the Hellgate: Londoners.

Quote
Balbi went on to reveal that three of the studio's top brass dug into their own pockets to provide 30 days of pay to all employees.

That was cool of them.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, July 12, 2008, 06:28:16 AM
Oh, it gets crazier.

Now, Taylor Balbi of Flagship is saying that he never spoke to VE3D at all. (http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?p=1126324#post1126324)
Hmmmmm...interesting, since he doesn't flat-out deny anything about Flagship closing there...

And well, Burnes is still sticking to his source. (http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?p=1126341#post1126341)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, July 13, 2008, 05:57:02 AM
I saw some of this info being broke yesterday in the actual never-ending thread of "Lowering The Flag" (it's like up to 300+ pages now!) (http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=106599) on The Official HGL Forums, but a handful of Flagship's employees have already updated their online profiles/resumes -- to have now listed themselves as working with Flagship from whenever they started to July 2008 on LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com).

Now, as you could've figured, VE3D is still following this (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39866/Flagship-Studios-Closure-Confirmed-All-Staff-Fired-All-I-P-Lost)

Quote
Update: A Goon by the name of GLC, who claims to be a former Ping0 employee (thanks Hellgate Guru), said the following on the SA Forums (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2900440&pagenumber=2#post346121956):

    Former Ping0 employee checking in here. I feel bad for some of the talented guys on the staff who busted rear end to try and get a game out on a ridiculous schedule, but I think we all kind of saw this coming after the game came out and basically bombed. Flagship bit off way more than they could chew and made a lot of development and structural mistakes in how they went about things. They had a lot of big dreamers on staff, but not enough nitty-gritty people who knew how to get poo poo done. It sucks, but that's life I guess. I didn't always agree with the decisions of the leadership, but it doesn't surprise me at all to hear that three of them (probably Roper and the Schaeffers) dug into their own pockets to pay people. Nothing about them, Max Schaeffer in particular, ever made me think they were less than standup guys.

    I think it's less that they aimed too high than that they tried to aim that high and do it quickly, and they didn't do anything the easy way. They had their own server architecture, their own client, their own chat, their own graphics engine, their own everything basically. Plus they wanted a game that could support thousands of concurrent connections with no downtime, had an engaging single-player campaign, and could support an ongoing, persistent world. It was like picking everything that's hard to do in a game, and then putting it on a brand-new company (two of them, really) with people who hadn't worked together before.

    Plus you had Ping0 doing the back-end and multiplayer, working off a forked codebase, and trying to make sure that what they were designing was open enough that it could be marketed to other companies. And then Mythos, with a team working out of Seattle under Travis Baldtree (who is a loving genius, by the way), which had to fit into things somehow even though it wasn't as much of a priority. It was just a really chaotic situation all around. Hopefully the talented guys I met there will bounce back quickly, it's a lovely time to be unemployed in the bay area.

Update #2: Guy Somberg, Flagship's final programmer and the Guy who wrote that infamous tirade (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39266/Flagship-Gets-Flagshipped), has modified his employment history on LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/9/2b7/2a7), which now reads as, "February 2005 — July 2008 (3 years 6 months)." Thanks Flagshipped.

Update #3: Kotaku's closure story (http://kotaku.com/5024558/flagship-sunk-whos-in-charge-of-hellgate) contains further confirmation from their own anonymous source.

Update #4: Amol Deshpande (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/9/292/7a9), Chris Schillinger (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/9/2b5/815), Jesse Jones (http://www.linkedin.com/in/jessejones) and Ray Li (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/6/770/4a4) all list their Flagship-Ping0 positions as having ended July 2008.

Update #5: Producer Patrick Harris (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/9/304/616) is no longer employed by Flagship.

Update #6: Eric Liu (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/2/666/67a) is no longer in the employ of Flagship-Ping0. Having served for seven months as a QA Manager and Automation Engineer, he was promoted in October 2007 to International Producer, a position he held until the studio's closure.

Update #7: Flagship-Ping0's IT Manager, Brent Shinn (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/6a8/914), is the latest staffer to officially leave the firm's employ.

Update #8: Grant Watters (http://www.linkedin.com/in/cowsrule), Greg Brown (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/0/b41/437) and Jonathan McEvoy (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/2/716/a59) are the latest Flagship-Ping0 employees to have listed their positions as previous experience on LinkedIn.

Update #9: Flagship-Ping0's Project Manager, Jack Wood (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/3/446/164), is now also an ex-employee. Jack had many important responsibilities, including: stakeholder, investor and regional distributor liaising; final say on all patch and product launches; and oversight of day-to-day end user support.

Update #10: Lead Graphics Engineer, Chris Lambert (http://www.linkedin.com/in/clambert), is the latest to go. Chris was with the company for four years.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: scottws on Sunday, July 13, 2008, 06:39:13 AM
Wow, it's like watching the TItanic sink live or something.

I feel bad for the actual individual people involved, but as a group I'm sort of glad it's happening.  No one at all liked the retarded subscription crap they were trying to foist on gamers, and basically what a piece of crap the game was when it released.  Now they are burning in effigy for it.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, July 13, 2008, 07:03:16 AM
Wow, it's like watching the TItanic sink live or something.
Basically. Yeah, it's quite crazy.

I wonder what is going to happen w/ the MP -- I'd say it's done, if Flagship's done and if some American company with lots of money (like say EA) don't get the HGL Rights.

Sure, we can always still play the SP-game alone. At least we still got something here.
 

Quote
I feel bad for the actual individual people involved, but as a group I'm sort of glad it's happening.  No one at all liked the retarded subscription crap they were trying to foist on gamers, and basically what a piece of crap the game was when it released.  Now they are burning in effigy for it.
I didn't like the "optional" subscription idea, Since they pumped out very little new content for "subscribers," it didn't look very attractive. Lifetime Founder subscribers got to keep their content on the MP side; while if you paid for a monthly subscription and quit, you lost the new MP content until you re-subscribed; what crap. Now, it looks like -- Founders are screwed period, since the MP Subscriber content don't rollover into the SP.

I think they should've let the MP be free. For new content, they could've did the Expansion Pack route for new content that you will keep. That or they could've done the DLC Route -- where you pay for the new areas to buy-to-download and its yours to keep forever; release some DLC packs in retail outlets if they wanted, too. Or even go both DLC and Expansion routes like Oblivion did -- and succeeded quite well with, I might add.

And yeah -- Flagship and EA definitely burned for releasing the game in a Alpha state. I mean, the sales went through the roof for...one week, until word got out how buggy it was. When I got HGL, it was fine on the MP Side when I played it (very end of December 2007 to end of January 2008). I think most gamers moved on to something else, by then.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, July 13, 2008, 09:21:05 AM
I second what scott said: feel bad for the folks, but they sort of had this coming.  I wouldn't hold it against them personally, as I'm sure they're all fine people, but this was poorly planned with bad business decisions from end to end.  IMO, their biggest mistake was allowing EA anywhere near them, and while I have no confirmation of anything, I could easily see how EA's involvement might have driven the nails into the coffin, depending on how much rush they were forced into.

Oh well.  It's a shame, but that's life, I guess.  They should have been smart about not tried to make this grand thing out of what was essentially just another Diablo game with pretty graphics.  It would have worked fine if they'd just given us a standard package of stuff and not tried to tack on a lot of useless bullshit.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, July 13, 2008, 02:19:20 PM
I second what scott said: feel bad for the folks, but they sort of had this coming.  I wouldn't hold it against them personally, as I'm sure they're all fine people, but this was poorly planned with bad business decisions from end to end. 

IMO, their biggest mistake was allowing EA anywhere near them, and while I have no confirmation of anything, I could easily see how EA's involvement might have driven the nails into the coffin, depending on how much rush they were forced into.
Agreed w/ all of that.

Quote
Oh well.  It's a shame, but that's life, I guess.  They should have been smart about not tried to make this grand thing out of what was essentially just another Diablo game with pretty graphics.

It would have worked fine if they'd just given us a standard package of stuff and not tried to tack on a lot of useless bullshit.
Agreed.

I think if they did an expansion that contained some of that "subscriber" stuff like Stonehenge and Abyss Chronicles and an abundance of other content, they would've been fine.

It'd be cool if say the MP servers do shut down, they do roll Patch 2.0 (which was in Beta) in the SP.
Some of the "Founder's" testing said the boss battles in Abyss were hard -- real hard.

More boss battles is something the SP could use.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 06:25:45 PM
Flagship News
More on Flagship.
Flagship still exists on pretty much life support (for now).
It's definitely nowhere near the size of the company we knew it was.
Namely, the founders and core members are left (such as Bill Roper).
Flagship has fired/laid off most of its employees.
Flagship still has both HGL and Mythos IP's (at least for now). (http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?p=1142581#post1142581)

Quote
Flagship Studios Still in Operations

San Francisco, CA (July 14, 2008) -- Flagship Studios has announced today that despite rumors to the contrary, the company is still operating.

“It is with deep regret that I must announce that Flagship Studios has laid off most employees. However, the core management and founding team members are still at Flagship.” said Bill Roper, CEO of Flagship Studios. “The past five years have been an incredible experience for us, but unfortunately, we couldn’t sustain the size of the company any longer.”

Flagship Studios owns the rights to all its technology and IP, including Hellgate: London and Mythos. Due to the current situation, Flagship will not be taking any new subscribers for Hellgate: London, and all current subscriptions will not be billed.

Flagship wishes to extend their heartfelt thanks to those that have supported the company and games over the past five years.

About Flagship Studios
Flagship Studios is a creator of innovative entertainment software, designing games that focused on ease of play, replayability, and fun. The studio was formed in 2003 by former executives and developers from Blizzard North® and represents the creators of the worldwide, best-selling Diablo® franchise. With members that are renowned within the gaming industry, Flagship Studios and its Flagship Seattle division embodies a team that has worked together for over a decade and have numerous #1-selling games and multiple Game of the Year awards to their credit.

Farewells
Now that the cat's out the bag officially on what's up w/ Flagship, some of the ex-Flagship employees have been posting their "farewells" on the Flagship's very own Mythos official boards (which was Flagship's upcoming FREE Online RPG, which was still in closed Beta) (http://forums.mythos.com/showthread.php?t=20722)

EDIT, July 17th, 2008:
HanBit Still Will Pursue HGL & Mythos IP's
HanBit is still going after the IP's (http://hellgateguru.com/2008/07/hanbitsoft-flagship-is-selfish-and-irresponsible/)

Quote
HanbitSoft: “Flagship Is Selfish And Irresponsible”
Written on July 16, 2008 – 7:17 pm | by Sol Invictus |

HanbitSoft has lashed out against Flagship Studios in the Korean press, in the wake of the recent turbulence at the San Francisco-based game development studio calling them “selfish and irresponsible”. Details are as follows:

    Bill Roper and Directors of Flagship Studios Bear Responsibility

    - HanbitSoft making good progress in securing intellectual property rights for Hellgate: London
    - HanbitSoft is preparing for a lawsuit against Bill Roper and the founding directors of Flagship Studios.

    Last weekend, Flagship Studios announced that former employees were fired and HanbitSoft mentioned that all measures were proceeding as planned to the benefit of players (in Korea) to ensure that continued service of Hellgate: London would be seamless despite the current problems at its development studio. In addition, HanbitSoft holds the executives of Flagship Studios fully responsible for the incident towards the rights and interests of the users and stakeholders, including shareholders and other parties involved. HanbitSoft is considering taking strong legal action against Flagship Studios in order to take them to task for their responsibilities.

    HanbitSoft does not expect to have any difficulty in securing the exclusive intellectual property rights related to Mythos. HanbitSoft is prepared to deal with Comerica bank in a local visit to them next week in order to secure and acquire the intellectual property rights of Hellgate: London. HanbitSoft believes that the game has nothing to do with the aforementioned bank as HanbitSoft already holds the rights to the game in Asia. HanbitSoft believes it has a strong possibility of acquiring the intellectual property of Hellgate: London in the United States and the rest of the world.

    HanbitSoft stated that they will be devising a plan to continue work on the games with local (Korean) game developers in order to see the game through.

    HanbitSoft’s CEO Kim Ki-Young stated, “Hellgate: London has a strong possibility of being ‘reborn’ into an excellent game with an outstanding product life,” he continued to say that “With more than 500 people at its disposal, both in-house and outsourced contracts who are veteran developers of every genre ranging from casual games to hardcore MMORPGs, we are ready to recreate Hellgate: London into an excellent game.”

    He continued, “We don’t have to recruit existing developers, however if we could do so, we could shorten the time for analysis and developing for users. Although we are trying our best, since Flagship Studios doesn’t want to cooperate, we have no choice.”

    According to HanbitSoft, they offered several methods and the means to keep Flagship alive in consideration of the users, but Flagship majorly lacked in effort. Hanbitsoft already has offered large amounts of investments but Flagship replied with ridiculous counter-offers and the negotiations went south. Even so, HanbitSoft continued to make investment offers which were all rejected, leading to the lay-offs of all of the Flagship employees.

    HanbitSoft also stated, “Flagship not only lacked effort, but were only looking for personal gain. Firing all of the Flagship employees in order to protect the personal interests of its founding members only shows how selfish and irresponsible they are.”

    Flagship Studios is an incorporated company. Hence if any problems occur within this company, it doesn’t affect the finances of any of Flagship Studios’ founders.

    HanbitSoft said they are going to take legal proceedings as Flagship Studios is legally responsible for a serious breach of duty in not protecting their stockholder’s rights. The legal proceedings will be done against Flagship’s founders and management people for their intellectual property. HanbitSoft currently owns a 9.5% stake in Flagship Studios.

Korean source: ThisIsGame

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, July 17, 2008, 06:40:25 PM
Somehow I totally don't buy anything that Hanbitsoft is saying.  It sounds totally bogus to me.  Obviously Flagship fucked up pretty majorly, but for some reason I don't really trust a lick of anything these other guys are saying.  I wonder why.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, July 17, 2008, 08:15:39 PM
Official Hellgate and Mythos Forums going down at Midnight
Here's the word from Tiggs on Mythos' boards going down at Midnight (http://forums.mythos.com/showthread.php?t=20749) and also on the HGL Boards. (http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=107626)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Thursday, July 17, 2008, 08:28:23 PM
Fuck, Mythos was turning out really well.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, July 17, 2008, 08:33:59 PM
Yeah, that's what I'm more sad about.  Mythos could have been quite nice when it was done.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xessive on Friday, July 18, 2008, 12:54:27 AM
I think HanbitSoft stated that should Flagship go under they would continue the development and support of Mythos but probably not HG:L.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, July 18, 2008, 01:31:43 PM
Yeah, that's what I'm more sad about.  Mythos could have been quite nice when it was done.

From what I know, people that played the Beta said it was really good -- especially for Beta.
Plus, there was a fair amount of staff working on Mythos (for the most part) that didn't work on HGL, too.

I wonder how Mythos would've been, being free and all. Would there have been like ads in there? B/c, that was really what the Ping0 portion of Flagship was for.

EDIT:
There are already talks on HellgateGuru on their message boards of some gamers/modders (http://hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?p=223636#post223636) that are planning to take the actual Test Center Beta MP Patch 2.0 (with the Stonehedge and Abyss Chronicles content included, which is around 1.66 GB in size) and they are going to reverse engine all that content into the SP portion of the game themselves -- whether anybody (Hanbit, Flagship, whomever) likes it or not.

EDIT #2:
Diane Migliaccio aka Tiggs (who is formerly) of Flagship Studios (yet is still volunteering her time to keep us up with news on the official Flagship Boards) is saying that Mythos Beta server will go on "hiatus" beginning tonight at 11:59pm. (http://forums.mythos.com/showthread.php?t=20766)
I'll bet you HGL is next, y'all...

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 05:10:07 PM
Hmmm...
This was posted by Namco-Bandai USA's Sr. Director Of Business, who happens to be Zack "Ozuri" Karlsson on HGL's Official Boards. (http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showpost.php?p=1156742&postcount=12438)

Quote
Hello Hellgaters,

I know everyone is looking for an announcement, and we'd love to make one -- but right now, many things are in flux and we don't have all the information yet. As soon as we do, we'll post here on the forums, on the website, and anywhere else we can find you.

In the short term, please do not worry. The game is up, the servers are not going away in the short term and any major changes to status will be communicated in advance.

I'd like to ask for your patience as we try to figure it all out and chart a new course. We value your community, your commitment, and your passion for Hellgate and we will make sure that any solution that we architect will support all of you as best as we are able.

Thanks again. We hope to have a real announcement shortly.
__________________
Zack "Ozuri" Karlsson
Sr. Director, Business Development
NAMCO BANDAI Games America, Inc.

So, is Namco going to help FSS out, money-wise and help finance them?
Is Namco going to swallow FSS into their Namco company?
Is Namco taking over HGL's IP?

I'm sure we'll find out, soon enough...
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, July 31, 2008, 01:56:40 PM
And now, things get even more....interesting.

As you recall, Hanbit was trying to takeover the HGL and Mythos IP's.

So now, let's now involve T3 Entertainment (of Asian), who recently bought up a lot of shares in HanbitSoft -- about 25%. (http://hanbitgame-espresso.blogspot.com/2008/07/t3-entertainment-becomes-largest.html)

Hmmmm. Interesting.

Now, T3 Entertainment is now making claims that they have secured both the IP's for Hellgate and Mythos.
And, they plan to open a T3 San Francisco development division up in the USA. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19658)
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 06:50:03 PM
EIGHT pages article from 1up with Flagship's very own Bill Roper.
A lot of stuff in there from Roper.
A LOT. (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=0&cId=3169356)

Quote
GFW: Back to the involvement of these other companies...

BR: Sure. The other major component of that, on the Asia side, is Hanbitsoft. It's been really kind of discouraging to read some of the press that's coming out of Korea. We worked with Hanbitsoft for a long time. Back in the Blizzard days, we launched StarCraft and Diablo with them. Together, both companies had a huge amount of success. When we started Flagship Studios, there really wasn't any doubt we wanted to work with Hanbit. That was our known, comfortable, go-to company, because I'd known them for a long time and had a very good relationship with them. The real challenges started when T3 came in as an investor, and pretty much everything changed overnight. Obviously, when companies are dealing with each other, there's a lot of NDAs, especially with publicly traded companies involved. So we didn't really have any kind of heads-up that that was happening. We literally read about the investment from T3 online.

GFW: So T3 made the deal with whom?

BR: They made their investment in Hanbitsoft, and as part of that investment, they took over a lot of the management there. So when we were in Asia on a business trip and talking with different companies about investments, we took the opportunity to go by Hanbitsoft's office and meet the new people. It was very evident, immediately, that this was the new management of the company. The first day [we were there], we probably spent about four or five hours talking with them and getting to know them, and they sounded excited about working with us. The thing that really upsets me now is reading where Hanbit's saying that they made numerous offers to us, and that we rejected these offers -- almost kind of implying that we were greedy and lazy or something. The second day we were there, they did present us with an offer...

GFW: And this would be for what? For them to actually buy the games? Buy the IP? Buy you...?

BR: Unlike Hanbit, I'm hesitant to violate my NDA and disclose information, so I can't get into all the details with you. The new Hanbitsoft hasn't had much of a problem disclosing confidential information to the press, which was pretty shocking to see. I take a poor view of business partners, former or current, breaking contracts in that way. So I'm always very sensitive to that and don't want to do that. Basically, they presented an offer on how we could work together. We couldn't pull the trigger on a deal just like that, though. I had to go back, talk to the rest of the board of directors, our investment bank, [and] the employees -- those types of things.

The timeline to do so that was presented was very short. And basically, the offer wasn't competitive with two other offers we had on the table. We really wanted to work something out, so we came back to Hanbitsoft and were very honest with them and said the deal wasn't competitive. But as originally intended, the loan we had received from Hanbitsoft, to which Mythos was the collateral, was designed to be a bridge to finding a studio investment. And that was regardless of whether it was with Hanbitsoft or another company. Now, granted, that loan was with the old Hanbit. That was the deal we worked out, and the new guys said we should do this deal with them. And I said that I appreciated the fact that they've made an offer, but at the same time, my fiduciary duty to the shareholders is to find the best deal for the company -- and also to find the best deal for the team.

I think Hanbit was in a difficult situation from that standpoint, because they were approaching us as a publisher who wanted to cut a deal with us, but they were also a shareholder in the company. I tried to explain to David Kim, who's the CEO there now, that it almost feels like a conflict of interest. A) I don't have the power to do this deal; there are other people involved. And B) we can't just say we'll do the deal with you because it's you. I've got to try to find the best deal. I've got to do right by you as a shareholder in Flagship, just like I have to do all the other shareholders in Flagship. That, I think, made it exceptionally challenging. Unfortunately, when we came back to them and said their offer wasn't going to be competitive, but that we had some other ideas and laid out a plan of how we could work with them to reach a deal with a different investor that would have benefited them greatly as a shareholder, they were...wholly uninterested. At that point in time, they informed us that their deal was non-negotiable -- which they had actually never told us, verbally or in writing. And they pulled their deal off the table and pretty much refused to talk to us about anything else, other than another deal that they put on the table a week later that was untenable. It didn't even make any sense.

GFW: Was it worse?

BR: Markedly, and it was one sentence.

GFW: Deal or no deal...

BR: Yeah. That may be how they were used to doing business. I'm not sure. But it was nothing that we could do. We went to them a couple of times with different proposals. Each time they basically refused to talk to us about anything involving that. Again, it was really discouraging to see that after the relationship started to fall apart.

GFW: So they were basically saying...we're going to be your investor, or nobody is?

BR: Well, we're not going to help you get anybody else to be the investor. They didn't really have the ability to block somebody else from investing, but they certainly held some keys in regard to us being able to do a couple of deals that, again, would have been incredibly beneficial to them.

GFW: So why would they do that? Again, just in your opinion...

BR: I don't know. I honest to god wish I knew. I don't want to believe that their offer was disingenuous, and it was just designed to be something that we wouldn't be able to accept. The end result, regardless of why it was done, is that because we did make the loan with them, they currently, to a degree, control Mythos, because that was the collateral for the bridge loan.

GFW: OK, so they can now say, and I'm just putting this in laymen's terms so we can all understand it, is: "You owe us money. You don't have it. You offered Mythos as collateral, so now we're taking that collateral."

BR: Right. That's the simplified version. They haven't taken that final step, actually. But that is where it's at. We don't have the money to pay back the loan. I think right now, which is pretty evident by some of the things they've been doing publicly, they're trying to figure out what to do with Mythos. They have it free and clear, and they're looking to start up, apparently, some U.S.-based studio to do something. [Read more about T3's new studio. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169105)

Hellgate
Quote
GFW: Who has the Hellgate IP right now?

BR: Right now, Comerica does. It's basically held by the bank. If Flagship could come up with the money to pay back the loan, it's ours again. But we don't have that money. We've been working with Comerica to provide them with anything and everything they've requested to be able to properly represent the IP, represent what's being held in escrow, and working with them to try to identify people that might be interested in that. Even if this means that we can't work on it anymore, which is pretty painful. You spend four years working on a game and then to not even be able to do anything with it -- it's pretty rough.

GFW: Does that only affect any further stuff that would be done with Hellgate, or does that include the game as it exists now?

BR: Both.

GFW: OK, because right now, isn't Namco involved...

BR: Well, Namco and EA are continuing to operate the game. But, for example, they can't do any development on it. They can't make new content.

GFW: So Comerica's control is the IP...

BR: IP, code, tech, and tools. So to be honest, if I personally had the money, I'd buy it back out. The technology and the toolset that we built is a really powerful platform for creating titles. That was really the goal of what we were going to be doing at Flagship. We were going to be using the tech and tools -- using the platform -- [and] creating games based off of that as our core moving forward.

That's just some of it, guys. There's a hell of a lot in there that I could quote. But, I could be here all night quoting and whatnot. So, just read it, if you have any interest in what Roper has to say.

To sum some of it up:
* FSS is still left with its core founders, basically
* BR admits to a lot of the problems and poor decisions regarding HGL (the game itself and business decisions)
* BR likes the Old Hanbit, not the new Hanbit (T3-owned)
* BR and Namco/EA helped to try get some Ex-Flagship people jobs
* Hanbit (T3-owned) owns Mythos IP, but isn't doing anything with it (yet)
* Comerica Bank still owns the HGL IP
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 07:05:41 PM
Interesting stuff.  I kinda' feel bad for the Flagship people, but I still don't know quite what to make of it all...
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 07:11:45 PM
Interesting stuff.  I kinda' feel bad for the Flagship people, but I still don't know quite what to make of it all...
I'm with you, bro.
To be honest, it's just a really horrible situation for everybody involved, pretty much.

I just hope in the long-run, more so than anyone else, that the gamers don't get screwed-over...

I'd really like to see that Patch 2.0 (which many said was great, in its last Beta release for Founders only) get released officially and finally for MP gamers.

I'd also like it to be integrated into the SP -- and finished completely.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 24, 2008, 02:31:49 PM
HG: London's online portion to be pulled offline on Feb 1, 2009.

Enjoy the MP while you can.

But, you'll always have the SP portion, guys. (http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6199996.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1)

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, October 24, 2008, 02:33:02 PM
What a sad and tragic end. I wouldn't have predicted this a year before HG:L's release.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Friday, October 24, 2008, 04:52:36 PM
Yeah. I saw Hellgate in the store today for $30 and just kind of sighed thinking of what it could have been.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Xessive on Friday, October 24, 2008, 04:55:26 PM
Yeah. I saw Hellgate in the store today for $30 and just kind of sighed thinking of what it could have been.
Man, here it's still stacked at about $50! Its price just refuses to go down!

It's too bad about its multiplayer going down. I symapthize with anyone who bought it specifically for that.

I hope the singleplayer is at least decent. Can anyone comment on that?
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, October 24, 2008, 04:57:33 PM
The game is obscenely average in every regard, from what I've heard.  I'll likely buy it when it hits the bargain bins for five bucks, just because I never played it other than the beta and wouldn't mind seeing the final version.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 24, 2008, 05:26:36 PM
Man, here it's still stacked at about $50! Its price just refuses to go down!

It's too bad about its multiplayer going down. I symapthize with anyone who bought it specifically for that.
Personally, I bought it for both. heh.
I never got around to the SP, though -- since I was happy w/ the MP.

Quote
I hope the singleplayer is at least decent. Can anyone comment on that?
I only did the MP -- which I actually did enjoy. The MP side was pretty patched-up, by the time I played it. A lot of the major issues were gone there.

One problem there was the gamers that played both MP and SP, they noticed the SP was nowhere as patched-up as the MP. So, they stuck with the MP.

I been meaning to try the SP, but right now, I have no desire to reinstall it.

There are plans that some modders out there who actually were Subscribers have the most recent "Beta Test Version MP 2.0" of HG: London (with all the gameplay changes, bug fixes, and some extra new content) and are going through the files and are trying to port that that content over to the SP -- and work on cleaning up issues/bugs that were still within it (since it was not a Final version).

Xessive, wait for a price drop. It ain't worth $50, knowing the MP is going down in a few months. Also, not worth getting  knowing that the SP is still not as patched-up as the MP and that the SP very likely won't officially be as patched-up as the MP side was.

If the modders ever get MP 2.0 content moved over to the SP (unofficially) and release it, I'll make a thread on it.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 11:06:12 AM
From HellForge.

Rumors are flying that the reason HGL is shutting down is because that Hanbit-owned company that is in San Francisco looks to be the one that'll take over HGL completely. (http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Arreat-Summit/Rumours-and-Speculations-Hellgate-London-Possibly-To-Live)

Quote
File this one under rumours and speculations as based on my own findings.

While we do know that FSS has died, as per yesterday's post about Hanbiton acquiring Hellgate: London, we do know that the IP is owned by T3 now.

What we didn't know however, is what would happen to the US version of the game. A new post (http://hg.hanbiton.com/News/EventView.aspx?eid=170&etype=0) went up today on the Korean Hellgate London website. It is a post talking about Halloween events and the "re-opening of the Hellgate", however what is interesting about it, is that it has a section written in English on a usually Korean only website.

The post also sounds like they are getting ready to re-launch the game (could this mean transferring the old players over?) and the company in charge appears to be Redbana. Further research leads to the Taiwanese MMO company called Redbana, which appears to have quite some experience in gaming. Further research leads to findings of a new San Francisco office for the company, which is where Hellgate offices were located previously.

So take this news with a grain of salt, but until we have more news, there is possibility that the game might come back in some way.

Enjoy

Here's the image on the Korean T3-owned HGL Website.
(http://hg.hanbiton.com/hg_attach/hgevent/20081028/images/01.jpg)
(http://hg.hanbiton.com/hg_attach/hgevent/20081028/images/02.jpg)
Title: NAMCO ANNOUNCES FREE SERVER SUPPORT INTO 2009 FOR HELLGATE
Post by: Xessive on Monday, November 03, 2008, 09:46:36 AM
From the official site:

NAMCO ANNOUNCES FREE SERVER SUPPORT INTO 2009 FOR HELLGATE
Quote
Santa Clara, Calif., (October 24, 2008) - NAMCO BANDAI Games America Inc., today announced that they will continue to support customers of PC game Hellgate™: London with online server support and play through January 31, 2009 despite the closure of Flagship Studios. In a further gesture of support, Namco Bandai Games will provide this server support free of charge to all fans and players of the game up until the shut down date.

NAMCO BANDAI Games appreciate the enthusiasm of all the Hellgate: London players and looks forward to providing them with future entertainment products.

For questions regarding the shut down or additional information about Hellgate: London, please visit the game’s official website at www.hellgatelondon.com.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Monday, November 03, 2008, 10:32:09 AM
Heh, yeah. Thats their spin on things. Its closing down Feb 1, 2009.

But in interesting news: Hellgate expansion coming. (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=55698) HanbitSoft has the rights to the game now and they are making an expansion. No word yet on them putting servers up.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, November 03, 2008, 04:17:04 PM
Heh, yeah. Thats their spin on things. Its closing down Feb 1, 2009.

But in interesting news: Hellgate expansion coming. (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=55698) HanbitSoft has the rights to the game now and they are making an expansion. No word yet on them putting servers up.

Actually, I would not be surprised if the HGL Expansion includes all of that Test Center 2.0 Beta patch NEW stuff that Flagship was working on and planning to release soon in a Final Patch (for Subscribers).

I would not be surprised if there's some other new Hanbit stuff thrown in there for good measure, too.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, November 04, 2008, 10:22:14 AM
If you're in the US or EU, you probably won't see any new Hellgate stuff. Namco is still in control here. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20936)

Quote
But Namco Bandai community manager Diane “Tiggs” Migliaccio says that HanbitSoft's updates and promised Hellgate expansion won't see a stateside release, posting on Hellgate's official forum, "Let me explain things a bit to see if it clears up any issues for you. Hanbit owns the IP and rights to publish anywhere other [than] the US and EU, and I think the other territory is Japan. Namco owns the rights to publish in the US and EU."

Namco Bandai, who co-published the game through an agreement with EA Partners, revealed that it would shut down its Hellgate servers on January 31, 2009. "The servers will never exist in the US and EU again. Hanbit aka Redbanana can not have servers in the US or EU," says Migliaccio.

She adds, "People are speculating, and I don't want anyone shocked on January 31, 2009 when the server and forums shut down and there is nothing."
I don't like Namcos attitude here. There is a company that apparently wants to keep the game running and even add new content. But Namco seems hellbent (har har) on not letting any of that come out to the US/EU players.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, November 04, 2008, 02:41:07 PM
Does Hanbit want servers in the US and EU?
If so, I say Hanbit try and buy the US and EU rights from Namco/EA to keep this thing going.

This games doesn't deserve to die like this in the USA.
Especially with its cliffhanger ending.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: PyroMenace on Thursday, November 06, 2008, 09:03:34 PM
Does it really D? This isnt some diamond in the rough or some sleeper hit. The game got to this position for a reason. Sure it had tons of potential, but its delivery couldnt quite live up to that. If nobody really plays it anymore theres no point. 
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, November 06, 2008, 09:42:17 PM
Does it really D? This isnt some diamond in the rough or some sleeper hit. The game got to this position for a reason. Sure it had tons of potential, but its delivery couldnt quite live up to that.

I'd say at the very least, Test Center Version 2.0 needs to make its way into Final Version for all countries. It was the last version of HGL that Flagship worked on.

And supposedly, it was supposed to be very good -- according to those who tested it in Beta.

It's be nice for the public to see how much better it has (probably) gotten. I'd like to see, myself.

Quote
If nobody really plays it anymore theres no point. 
Well, the Test Center 2.0 MP new content into the SP would make the SP live on as long as the gamer wants to play the SP side -- plus, the SP still is far behind the MP Live patches even without Test Center 2.0, when it comes to being patched.

I still would like to see someone make Hellgate: Earth.


Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, November 07, 2008, 04:25:34 AM
Quote
Does it really D? This isnt some diamond in the rough or some sleeper hit. The game got to this position for a reason. Sure it had tons of potential, but its delivery couldnt quite live up to that. If nobody really plays it anymore theres no point. 
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, January 26, 2009, 02:42:16 PM
Yup, you heard it right.
Hanbit is claiming they own all the IP rights to HGL (again) and that...get this...
They plan to take HGL into a free-to-play business model WORLDWIDE.

HUGE PATCH from Hanbit will be coming soon. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22005)

Quote
January 26, 2009
HanbitSoft: Hellgate London To Continue As Free-To-Play Title

HanbitSoft: Hellgate London To Continue As Free-To-Play Title Although it is slated to stop operating in the West on January 31, multiplayer online title Hellgate: London will continue on here as a free-to-play game, according to comments from Korean publisher and developer HanbitSoft.

Although it is slated to stop operating in the West on January 31, multiplayer online title Hellgate: London will continue on here as a free-to-play game, according to comments from Korean publisher and developer HanbitSoft.

The announcement comes in spite of a decision by Namco-Bandai, which co-published the game through an agreement with Electronic Arts' EA Partners, to terminate the game's servers.

HanbitSoft has asserted that it owns the IP, engines and source code for the Flagship Studios title worldwide, and will maintain Hellgate: London for its global community. HanbitSoft had previously been responsible for only the game's Korean operations.

The switch to a free-to-play model was the first official announcement the company has made regarding the fate of the title, which during its lifetime suffered from perceived quality issues, and an insufficient userbase, playing a key role in the closing of Flagship Studios in July 2008.

HanbitSoft also says in an official press statement seen by Gamasutra that future updates for Hellgate: London are in the works, with a focus on "strengthening community features" while maintaining the core gameplay as is.

The next "large-scale" patch, according to HanbitSoft, will be released "soon," and will combine the game's two play modes to unify its communities. The company also plans class balance improvements and further distinction between the game's five acts.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, January 26, 2009, 03:35:39 PM
That's kinda awesome.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, January 26, 2009, 07:48:26 PM
This situation just gets stranger and stranger.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, March 26, 2009, 08:27:14 PM
Business developer Stephen Goldestein of the now defunct Flagship talks about why Flagship failed and went under at the GDC 09 (http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1094)

Quote
Why Hellgate: London Failed and How Developer Flagship Got Flagshipped
by Nick Breckon Mar 26, 2009 12:15pm CST
"For all intents and purposes, everyone was flagshipped."

"I'm sure some of you are familiar with that term," said former Flagship business developer Stephen Goldstein. "For those of you who are not, the term 'flagshipped' literally has no less than five definitions in the English language."

An illustrative slide appeared on screen:

    Tim: "I just bought a new table tody and one of its legs broke."

    Mike: "Man you got flagshipped."

Goldstein spoke at length this morning on the demise of Hellgate: London developer Flagship Studios, highlighting specific areas that he feels lead to the ugly end of a studio with tremendous promise.

"Everything we did, the entire corporate setup, was meant to swing for the fences," said Goldstein. "Everything was solely plan A. There was no plan B."

In particular, Goldstein noted that the company should have raised more money when they had the chance, saying that it was the "company-killing moment."

"We had a title a year from launch, with a team that had sold 17 million units worldwide from their previous franchise," he explained.

"It's my guess that we could have probably raised 25 to 30 million dollars to just stick in a coffer and wait. It would have provided us the ability to delay the launch of the title. We needed another four months, possibly five, to get things polished. And we just could not take it."

Goldstein also zeroed in on the highly publicized Hellgate billing errors, which lead to some users being billed multiple times during the first days of the launch.

"[Billing] got left to the last minute. We ran out of resources, we ran out of time," he said. "Which lead to a situation where, a very small, small percentage of users got charged twice. That's very bad."

"Imagine how bad this if you're giving everything away for free, and you're trying to get people to pay you. Because then they hear that the billing is screwed up. And they say hey, I can get all this stuff for free. Why would I pay for it?"

Hellgate: London's multiple business models was also a significant problem, according to Goldstein.

"The issue that we had with Hellgate London was that it was a boxed product, it was sold at retail, it had a free singleplayer version, and then it had a subscription," he said.

"What we probably should have done is just piss off our community up front and say you know what, it's going to be a subscription.
All of us were very concerned about consumer perception, rather than if money was going to be coming through the door."

As it turns out, Hellgate sold a respectable amount of copies in the US and Europe. But the game's business model depended on subscription revenue in the long term, and not enough of those sales translated into subscriptions.

"The problem wasn't that we sold 500,000 units," said Goldstein. "The problem was we weren't getting subscription [revenue] from those units."

Goldstein guessed that if the game was subscription-only, it would have sold around 250,000 copies less, but the subscription revenue would have kept Flagship afloat.

Goldstein also noted that Hellgate also represented too many "firsts" for the company, including the first 3D game, first FPS, and first subscription-based game.

"This game wouldn't be made today," he said, while turning that particular failure into a testament to the team's resiliency.

"The fact that it was in the box really is a testament to the team that we had. They didn't get the credit that I think they deserved, because with the amount of challenges that we faced, they pulled through."
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, April 03, 2009, 01:45:12 PM
Hanbit owns IP, Namco-Bandai owns publishing rights
Well, here's an update on why Hanbit hasn't taken over HGL Completely yet -- since they are working on this game over at their Hanbit San Francisco Studio.

While Hanbit owns the property of HGL and owns the publishing rights in Korea, here's the complication elsewhere -- currently Namco-Bandit has the publishing rights to HGL in NA and PAL territories.

So, since they did shut HGL's servers down here in NA, I wonder how much Namco wants to give up those rights for...

I wonder when this might get resolved, if it'll ever get resolved... (http://www.destructoid.com/hanbitsoft-wants-to-relaunch-hellgate-london-127389.phtml)

HanBit's Blog
If you want more details, check this Hanbit Blog out that reveals a lot more on their upcoming plans to add all kinds of new gamemodes, features, and stuff to HGL with their upcoming Patch 1.5... (http://hanbitgame-espresso.blogspot.com/2009/04/hellgate-news.html)

Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, April 03, 2009, 09:27:02 PM
*sigh* Just let it die D, let... it... die...
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, April 05, 2009, 03:09:59 PM
*sigh* Just let it die D, let... it... die...

I know, I really should let something die, sometimes...
But, sometimes, I just see glimmers of hope in places...well, there probably shouldn't be any.
This probably is one of those -- b/c HanBit is at least trying to do something with this game to really improve on it...

Gothic 3 got pretty fixed up, unofficially....and I never thought I'd see the day that got fixed up the way it did...Even if it did take a long time to get fixed-up...

So, I dunno.... *shrug*
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, April 06, 2009, 12:24:18 PM
*sigh* Just let it die D, let... it... die...

Thanks for the laughs Menace.
Title: Re: Looks like Hellgate is in for a very rough launch.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, February 08, 2011, 05:12:40 PM
Gamasutra -> 6 page interview w/ Bill Roper reflecting on HGL and (the now defunct) Flagship Studios. (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6281/bill_roper_reflections_on_hellgate.php)