Overwritten.net

Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: Xessive on Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 07:08:59 PM

Title: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 07:08:59 PM
Sony Patents Multi-Part Motion Tracking Controller (http://megagames.com/news/html/console/sonypatentsmulti-partmotiontrackingcontroller.shtml) (Source: Megagames)

Quote
Description
Sony has filed a new patent describing a new Playstation 3 controller the employes "hybrid video capture and ultrasonic tracking."

According to the patent filed, the system will track the movements of "one or more" controllers in a 3D space. "The ultrasonic tracking system analyzes sound communications to determine the distances between the game system and each controller and to determine the distances among the controllers", reads the patent's abstract. "The distances are then analyzed by the game interface to calculate the depths within the capture area for each controller."

The new controller comes in as a pair of ice cream cone-like devices that can be attached together in a variety of positions. One configuration that utilizes an add-on buttons plate resembles the Dual Shock controller, while other configuration, that has 2 controllers connected back to back, resembles Nintendo's famous WiiMote.

Here are some concepts:
(http://megagames.com/news/images/ps3%20wiimote%20like%20controller%2016la5qg.jpg)
(http://megagames.com/news/images/ps3%20wiimote%20like%20controller%202ro58vs.jpg)
(http://megagames.com/news/images/ps3%20wiimote%20like%20controller%20346kcv8.jpg)
(http://megagames.com/news/images/ps3%20wiimote%20like%20controller%20ajuyqs.jpg)
(http://megagames.com/news/images/ps3%20wiimote%20like%20controller%201zcecyu.jpg)

Interesting implementation ideas. Seems like a step up on the Wiimote with the different configurations. I wonder how it will actually be.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: K-man on Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 07:44:32 PM
too bad it looks like some sort of female masturbatory device.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: ScaryTooth on Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 08:02:14 PM
Yep. I'm going with high-end dildo.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 08:51:42 PM
too bad awesome! it looks like some sort of female masturbatory device.
Fixed.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 09:06:43 PM
My mind cannot even process it.  Give me a controller, please, and worry about innovation once you figure out things that a device like this will actually be good for.  The Wii hasn't done it yet, even if it's made a few significant strides.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 11:04:19 PM
The Wii is basically crippled by design from my understanding.  This looks like it is what everyone originally thought the wii mote would be.  Unless there's something I'm missing here, it looks like it could track everything necessary for 1:1 movement.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, November 13, 2008, 12:28:29 AM
What the hell is Fig 9B about? Dual dildos?
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, November 13, 2008, 06:02:59 AM
Exactly my thoughts. Figured I'd let y'all roll with it :D

It looks odd. Frankly the more complicated a controller gets (as well as its use) the less interested I get.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: KontrollerX on Thursday, November 13, 2008, 07:34:58 AM
Ugh.

The Wii trend needs to end for non Nintendo consoles.

Its bad enough Microsoft is turning the awesome blades design of the 360 into some Wii looking bullshit in a few days.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, November 13, 2008, 12:29:08 PM
The Wii is basically crippled by design from my understanding.  This looks like it is what everyone originally thought the wii mote would be.  Unless there's something I'm missing here, it looks like it could track everything necessary for 1:1 movement.

They have fixed that. (http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/eMMuRj_N6vntHPDycCJAKWhEO9zBvyPH)  Hopefully it will be exploited properly in the future.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: K-man on Thursday, November 13, 2008, 02:18:48 PM
I'd also love it if Sony nailed down in-game chat before tackling new technology such as this.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: gpw11 on Thursday, November 13, 2008, 06:14:51 PM
They have fixed that. (http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/eMMuRj_N6vntHPDycCJAKWhEO9zBvyPH)  Hopefully it will be exploited properly in the future.

I can't really say because I don't know but from what I've read at digg.com and the comments there (I assume from people who do know) the WiiMotionPlus still lacks the neccesary data for 1:1 movement.  Now instead of just measuring pitch, yaw, and roll, the controller can also tell that it's moving in 3-d space without any of that data, but still has no way of actually knowing where it is in that space.   Apparently, that's why in all the marketing info Nintendo claims "1:1 precision" instead of movement.  True/false?  I don't know.  All I know is that either way all it means is more accurate lame-ass gesture based gaming
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, November 13, 2008, 06:17:24 PM
I'd also love it if Sony nailed down in-game chat before tackling new technology such as this.

Yes.  Infrastructure, Sony.  Fucking infrastructure.  Get that all up to par with the stuff people go to other consoles for and then worry about the magic wand.  Know your fucking audience.  It isn't anyone who wants to wave around a stick.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Xessive on Friday, November 14, 2008, 01:48:13 AM
Yes.  Infrastructure, Sony.  Fucking infrastructure.  Get that all up to par with the stuff people go to other consoles for and then worry about the magic wand.  Know your fucking audience.  It isn't anyone who wants to wave around a stick.
I think most people who got the PS3, over the Wii, got it specifically so they wouldn't have to wave a wand around. At least not right off the bat.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: gpw11 on Friday, November 14, 2008, 02:01:11 AM
That's a very good point.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, November 14, 2008, 12:29:57 PM
I can't really say because I don't know but from what I've read at digg.com and the comments there (I assume from people who do know) the WiiMotionPlus still lacks the neccesary data for 1:1 movement.  Now instead of just measuring pitch, yaw, and roll, the controller can also tell that it's moving in 3-d space without any of that data, but still has no way of actually knowing where it is in that space.   Apparently, that's why in all the marketing info Nintendo claims "1:1 precision" instead of movement.  True/false?  I don't know.  All I know is that either way all it means is more accurate lame-ass gesture based gaming

Well, a mouse doesn't know its absolute place on a 2D surface either.  For that, you need something like a Summa tablet and pen.  I don't see this as a problem at all.

Edit:  I'm definitely with you on the gesturing for the novelty of it instead of only when it makes good sense.  Like with the fucking microphone on the DS, Nintendo needs to quit advertising their console gadgets by strong-arming their devs into using them when a button press or joypad move would do the job better.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: gpw11 on Friday, November 14, 2008, 05:15:26 PM
Well, a mouse doesn't know its absolute place on a 2D surface either.  For that, you need something like a Summa tablet and pen.  I don't see this as a problem at all.

Edit:  I'm definitely with you on the gesturing for the novelty of it instead of only when it makes good sense.  Like with the fucking microphone on the DS, Nintendo needs to quit advertising their console gadgets by strong-arming their devs into using them when a button press or joypad move would do the job better.

For the first part, yeah I don't really know.  I'm just going off of what others are saying, and I'm assuming they know a lot more about this kind of thing.  I think it's that you can't actually have 1:1 movement like people think of without having at least one other (separate) item that's not the sensor bar or the wiimote so that the sensor can use to calculate wiimote positioning.  Like a little pylon that could very well be stationary the whole time, but the machine needs it there in order 'backsight' it to calculate the position of the remote in relation to it.  Ideally, you'd have two other sensors.  I may be looking at this wrong, but at least that's how all three dimensional positioning algorithms work with things like Total Stations and GPS surveying equipment.

And the edit is what I see as the main flaw with the Wii.  Like I said, I had one (or a roomate did) and it was great, untilI caught on that almost every game that wasn't wii sports was just tedious.  That was close to launch, but apart from a few gems, I don't think much has changed.   
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, November 14, 2008, 07:02:50 PM
It's the sad truth.  I don't know that I regret the purchase because it was made with what was basically gifted money, but still.  Truth be told, though, I've had so much to do that I haven't even gotten around to finishing the few games I do have for it.  But I guess that's a whole different problem.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: scottws on Friday, November 14, 2008, 07:08:29 PM
I don't regret the purchase at all.  I still play it all the time.  It's not the end all/be all, the alpha and the omega, but it can be fun with others.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, November 15, 2008, 01:11:18 PM
I recently played through Metroid Prime 3 again.  Aside from some needless waggling, it's probably the best demo of how to put the tech to good use.  I think that hasn't happened at all since the game was released.  With the runaway sales of the Wii, I guess Nintendo doesn't have to care if nothing of this caliber ever happens again.

What I was getting at with the mouse thing is that you don't need an absolute reference for the 1:1 control you get out of it.  The mouse only sees what happens to it relative to a spot under it, and that's all it needs.  3D space should work the same way.  Moving the controller 3 inches matters.  Where it started, not so much.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: sirean_syan on Saturday, November 15, 2008, 02:06:43 PM
I recently played through Metroid Prime 3 again.  Aside from some needless waggling, it's probably the best demo of how to put the tech to good use.  I think that hasn't happened at all since the game was released.  With the runaway sales of the Wii, I guess Nintendo doesn't have to care if nothing of this caliber ever happens again.

I was thinking this the other day when I saw a Wii Music commercial. It seems like Retro was really the last game developer to take the Wii seriously in any sense of moving games forward. Nearly everything else that has good and not a collection of minigames could really have been done without the controls. At this point, it seems like Nintendo doesn't even care about trying to get the most out of the controls in any really interesting way.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, November 16, 2008, 04:39:03 AM
I think Sony is guilty of forcing some unnecessary motion controls into some PS3 games too. Fortunately in most cases you have the option to switchthe SIXAXIS motion sensing off in those games.

So far I think the game that employed the motion sensing best is Folklore. They're using in certain circumstances (when you're trying to absorb a Folk's id) and they feel natural within the context.
Title: Re: Gaming Hardware: Sony's Plans
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, November 16, 2008, 05:04:18 AM
I recently played through Metroid Prime 3 again.  Aside from some needless waggling, it's probably the best demo of how to put the tech to good use.  I think that hasn't happened at all since the game was released.  With the runaway sales of the Wii, I guess Nintendo doesn't have to care if nothing of this caliber ever happens again.

What I was getting at with the mouse thing is that you don't need an absolute reference for the 1:1 control you get out of it.  The mouse only sees what happens to it relative to a spot under it, and that's all it needs.  3D space should work the same way.  Moving the controller 3 inches matters.  Where it started, not so much.

Good point.  Maybe they were talking about relative to the body or something? Like I said, I have no idea really.