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Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: idolminds on Friday, December 12, 2008, 10:22:37 AM

Title: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: idolminds on Friday, December 12, 2008, 10:22:37 AM
Damnit. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56338)

EA finally starts publishing games I want, but their bullshit makes me not want them anyway.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Friday, December 12, 2008, 10:41:12 AM
1.  Just be glad it got picked up by someone.

2.  Maybe EA will treat it correctly and give the game some semblance of a marketing push so it will have the chance for success that Psychonauts didn't.

Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, December 12, 2008, 09:06:32 PM
Fuck.  Well, there goes my day.  No PC version and now EA-published, plus Jack Black doing other shit to piss me off.  Maybe I'll just skip it and call it a day.  It's not like I have the money anyway.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, December 12, 2008, 09:45:22 PM
1.  Just be glad it got picked up by someone.

2.  Maybe EA will treat it correctly and give the game some semblance of a marketing push so it will have the chance for success that Psychonauts didn't.



I completely agree. I may dislike EA, but if they're the ones Tim Shaffer has to go through to get another one of his games out, then that works for me. Better to be released this way, than nothing at all.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Friday, December 12, 2008, 09:52:54 PM
I really don't see how the publisher should affect anyone's decision to buy the game.  A good game is a good game, no matter who has their stamp on it.

Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: idolminds on Friday, December 12, 2008, 10:57:04 PM
EA + DRM + Online Activation = affects my decision.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:24:14 PM
Not with this it won't, though, since Tim already failed us on the PC front. Which made me sad enough to begin with.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:06:22 AM
Has he said no PC version or they simply havent confirmed one?
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 13, 2008, 01:03:26 AM
Hmm.  It's been a while since I heard it, but I'm fairly sure he shot that idea down.  I don't know that for a fact, but I remember being fairly upset.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, December 13, 2008, 08:45:16 AM
From the Double Fine FAQ (http://www.doublefine.com/news.php/about):

Quote
OMG! Upon which platforms will I be able I play this amazing game Brütal Legend?

The currently-announced platforms for Brütal Legend are the XBOX 360, and the PlayStation 3.

What? No PC version? I've always hated you, Double Fine! Now I know why.

Please, no hate. No one ever said there WASN'T going to be a PC version.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:11:52 PM
Well, it doesn't matter either way now, since if they've gone with EA a PC version may as well not exist since it will be crippled and useless.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Xessive on Saturday, December 13, 2008, 01:13:12 PM
Well, it doesn't matter either way now, since if they've gone with EA a PC version may as well not exist since it will be crippled and useless.
Sad but true.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, December 13, 2008, 07:25:22 PM
Well, it doesn't matter either way now, since if they've gone with EA a PC version may as well not exist since it will be crippled and useless.

But you have a 360 and a PS3.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: gpw11 on Saturday, December 13, 2008, 07:51:18 PM
Well, it doesn't matter either way now, since if they've gone with EA a PC version may as well not exist since it will be crippled and useless.

It's bad, but it's not that bad (from what I've seen).  I bought both Spore (lame) and Mass Effect and didn't really feel any of the effects of the DRM on either of them.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:29:07 AM
facepalm.gif
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:47:19 AM
We can go back and forth with the DRM arguments for years.  And have.

And while I own both consoles, this is Tim Schafer we're talking about here.  PC legacy a mile long.  As a PC enthusiast, it's always going to be very sad to see a guy who's stood by the platform for so long put his first efforts into others.  What's so hard to understand about that?

These may be mostly ideological problems, but when one loses his ideology, what good is he to anyone?  If we have no values, we gradually give way to practices that are harmful.  We give up freedoms.  Even if bad DRM doesn't affect everyone in a bad way, it does affect a lot of people, and it's only going to give way to worse countermeasures if we approve of those already in use.  This logic is not valid in every single circumstance, perhaps, but certainly in the one where we find ourselves now.  Argue that if you like, but you can be sure that I'll call you a shortsighted idiot if you do.  And the PC thing... I'm a PC gamer.  Yeah, I'm also a console gamer, but my first love was the PC and it always will be until the PC itself morphs into something else.  So yeah, it's sad to see a guy who was so long a hero to the PC community turn about and make a game where a PC version isn't even announced, let alone lead platform.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 01:25:13 PM
This has nothing to do with ideology.  I think what you guys repeatedly fail to comprehend is that ultimately everyone's goal in the game industry is to make money.  Schafer is doing what he needs to do to ensure the success (and survival) of his development company.  Releasing on consoles is the easiest (and best) way to get this game that many people are busting their asses on out to the public.  DoubleFine NEEDS this game to be successful.  The title won't sell nearly as well on PC.  Period.  Like it or not the platform focus in gaming has shifted, and you guys just absolutely refuse to accept that fact. 

Look, I'm just as nostalgic about gaming as you guys are.  But I also have the foresight to see that if game development companies don't change with the times, they don't stay in business. 

The inevitable shitty EA DRM is not Tim Schafer's fault.  Again, he is simply doing what he can to stay in business.  And if that means having a game published by EA, so be it.  Don't fault the guy for trying to feed his family.  Yeah, Schafer's PC legacy is a mile long.  But does that mean he should stick it out with a dying (yes, I said dying) platform and ignore the massive amounts of sales he would garner in the console market?  Fuck no!  He'd be an idiot to do so.  So yeah, why not focus your efforts (and monies) on developing a good game for the platforms you're most likely to have success with?  If you don't want to deal with the DRM, don't buy the game on PC.  Simple as that.  It's not like you don't have other options.  And if you like Tim Schafer and his games, why you wouldn't purchase his game on a console is just flat out beyond me. 

I mean if the PC was the only gaming platform you had access to, then I could see where shitty DRM would be a problem.  But most of you own consoles.  But it seems that you (and others) would rather sit here and bitch about the DRM on the PC version repeatedly than buy the console version and enjoy it.

Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 02:48:07 PM
Very good post K-Man. Thanks for bringing some balance.

I'd rather Tim Schafer continue to make games, than not make them at all. At the same time, it has to be said, that Psychonauts was a flop on the consoles as well... and "Adventure" gaming has been an unsafe business investment -- regardless of platform -- for a while.

Also, if you think about it, the best adventure games of the past never sold millions of copies. Back then, it was a few hundred thousand that was considered blockbuster. Unfortunately, with all the production values that go in today, those sales are just not good enough anymore. At the same time, you didn't have nearly as huge a PC gaming community as you do today, yet the sales aren't any better.

Plus, I wouldn't say PC gaming is dying. It has started to make a comeback. The tech. gap between it and consoles is widening, and will continue to do so until the next gen. of consoles. Till then PC game sales will continue to get better. Heck., they are apparently already a lot better than last year. From what I read, Fallout 3 sold really well on the PC, better than it did on the PS3, and only 20% less than it did on the 360. Far Cry 2 was a similar story.

Again, I do agree with much of what you say. These people aren't running a charity. I see a lot of sympathy for consumers on these particular forums, but never the poor bastards who sink their life's work into these games.

I also agree with K-Man on the whole ideology thing. Sure, it is great to stick to your legacy and principles, but at the same time, you have to live to fight another day. Tim had a massive disappointment with Psychonauts, and this is his comeback title, which he needs to sell if he wants to develop more games.

How many flops do you think Tim can afford on his resume, before publishers stop investing any money into him, whatsoever? I bet Tim doesn't like this anymore than his diehard fans, but would he rather stick to his principles and flip burgers at McDonalds instead?

Also, what's so great about the PC gaming platform? Well, not the platform, but the community. We are talking about the most selfish bastards here. People who openly talk about pirating games, and aren't even ashamed of pirating $10 titles from independent developers. Are these people really worth protecting? Yea there are a lot of good people who are willing to pay for their purchases, but most just aren't. It was mentioned on PCG's podcast recently that according to an official estimate, there were at least 25 million high end PCs out there, armed with cards at least as powerful as 8800GTs. I mentioned 10 million earlier, but that was just 8800s... Here PCG mentioned 25 million.


Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 04:28:23 PM
I'd rather Tim Schafer continue to make games, than not make them at all. At the same time, it has to be said, that Psychonauts was a flop on the consoles as well... and "Adventure" gaming has been an unsafe business investment -- regardless of platform -- for a while.


I think Psychonauts' failure is more a testament of Majesco's failure to properly market the game than anything else.  I basically had to hear about the game through word of mouth, and I wasn't even aware Tim Schafer was responsible for the game until I happened to come home with it one day.  I'm not saying that a proper marketing push would have made the game a blockbuster hit, but it certainly would have sold more than 100,000 across the board.

Touching on your last point, I'd say that companies protecting their investment is probably a significant reason why we're seeing less and less focus (and releases) on the PC.  It's rather difficult to pirate a game for a console, yet just about any slack jawed idiot can log into a torrent site and download a PC title.

As to whether PC gaming is dying or not, I really don't want to have that argument here (or anywhere, really).  Both sides of the issue have been beaten to death on the forum, and we'd certainly be flogging a dead horse. 
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 07:18:24 PM
What the fuck?  I blamed Schafer for nothing at any point.  I'm sad to see a PC guy give up the PC legacy.  Where is there any blame there?  Did I blame him for EA's DRM?  No, I simply complained about EA's DRM being what it always is.

I prefer PC gaming because I prefer it.  You can prefer anything you damn well please.  But why am I not allowed to be sad that a game I was looking forward to from a developer whose first game came to the PC and whose lead guy has a long PC legacy isn't coming to PC?  Sure, I own a 360 and PS3.  But I hate my 360 because it's a piece of junk that doesn't work properly, and no matter how much I like my PS3, the PC is still my preferred platform given a choice between the two.

You say it has nothing to do with ideology, because you're not looking at what I'm saying.  This has nothing to do with Tim Schafer's ideology.  It has everything to do with mine.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 07:35:10 PM
I don't have a next gen console, and probably wont for a good while yet. PC is my only shot for new games, and the DRM bothers me. Ideology +1.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Ghandi on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 08:29:56 PM
I love lamp.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 08:35:25 PM
That's helpful.

You know what, you're banned.  BANNED.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Ghandi on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 08:36:32 PM
Why? I'm pretty sure that was the smartest thing said in this thread yet.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 08:44:48 PM
Fuck you.

Can you really ban him?  He keeps on bringing up my penis.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Ghandi on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 08:46:17 PM
I keep bringing up your penis? When you provide me with a double entendre like that, I wonder why....
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 08:49:22 PM
Why are you making this so hard?
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Ghandi on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 08:55:10 PM
OK now this is just getting weird. I can only assume you enjoy all the attention that your penis has been getting.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 08:56:44 PM
Well, it doesn't matter either way now, since if they've gone with EA a PC version may as well not exist since it will be crippled and useless.

Unless the PC version drops to $10 at retail stores into the Bargain Bins and the hackers cracked the DRM.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 09:10:14 PM
What the fuck?  I blamed Schafer for nothing at any point.  I'm sad to see a PC guy give up the PC legacy.  Where is there any blame there?  Did I blame him for EA's DRM?  No, I simply complained about EA's DRM being what it always is.

I prefer PC gaming because I prefer it.  You can prefer anything you damn well please.  But why am I not allowed to be sad that a game I was looking forward to from a developer whose first game came to the PC and whose lead guy has a long PC legacy isn't coming to PC?  Sure, I own a 360 and PS3.  But I hate my 360 because it's a piece of junk that doesn't work properly, and no matter how much I like my PS3, the PC is still my preferred platform given a choice between the two.

You say it has nothing to do with ideology, because you're not looking at what I'm saying.  This has nothing to do with Tim Schafer's ideology.  It has everything to do with mine.

I may have misread you, and if I did I apologize.  But your tone made it seem that Tim Schafer had failed you in some aspect, when in reality all he's trying to do is make a living so he can continue to bring us games.  Your post first talked about Schafer moving his efforts toward console gaming, and then went on to talk about ideology, losing it, and the negative affects associated, which I naturally took as a jab at Schafer's seeming abandonment of the PC market.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 09:20:53 PM
No, I don't think he's failed us.  I fully understand his logic, but it still makes me sad.  And I know a lot of people don't hate EA or get so wrapped up in business ethics, etc., but I sincerely dislike them as a company and try very hard not to support them.  Hence my own ideology gets in the way of wanting to get this game at all.  I likely will if it turns out well, but I really wish EA hadn't turned out to be the people to pick it up.  I like Pixar, but I hate Disney.  Same thing here.  I like Double Fine, but I hate EA.  It's just not a happy marriage in my book.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 09:48:22 PM
This has nothing to do with ideology.  I think what you guys repeatedly fail to comprehend is that ultimately everyone's goal in the game industry is to make money.
Of course everybody wants to make money.

Quote
Schafer is doing what he needs to do to ensure the success (and survival) of his development company.  Releasing on consoles is the easiest (and best) way to get this game that many people are busting their asses on out to the public.  DoubleFine NEEDS this game to be successful.
Of course DF needs this game to be successful. 

About releasing this game on consoles being the best way to get this game out there to sell copies, sure -- namely b/c there is not even as much piracy on the PC as there is on the console. It's not even close.

I really wonder how many copies a game like ACPC would've sold on the PC, if say not one copy was downloaded the pirate way -- b/c that pirated count from BitTorrent ALONE was very high. In the millions.

Quote
The title won't sell nearly as well on PC.  Period.  Like it or not the platform focus in gaming has shifted, and you guys just absolutely refuse to accept that fact.

First off, we don't have enough quality adventure game titles on the PC. No wonder that genre is dead on the PC -- very few make them.
 
Quote
The inevitable shitty EA DRM is not Tim Schafer's fault.
Of course not. That's EA being EA.

But by Tim joining up with EA, he is also becoming a part of the problem that is facing PC gaming -- publishers pushing DRM that is killing PC games from selling -- if there is a PC release in the cards at a later said date.

It's a catch-22. Either way, you look at it, the PC gamers lose.

Quote
Again, he is simply doing what he can to stay in business.  And if that means having a game published by EA, so be it.  Don't fault the guy for trying to feed his family.  Yeah, Schafer's PC legacy is a mile long.  But does that mean he should stick it out with a dying (yes, I said dying) platform and ignore the massive amounts of sales he would garner in the console market?  Fuck no!  He'd be an idiot to do so.
For any company releasing a PC version at a later said date, you are possibly not going to sell a lot of copies -- especially if your game already sold like hotcakes on the console. Take that and then throw on top of that all the piracy problems the PC has, controversies over DRM, and the chance of a PC port suffering from "the port syndrome," well -- we're likely screwed again.

I think the ideal answer is to do the X-360, PS3, and PC versions at once -- and yes, release them all at once -- BethSoft proved how successful that can be with Fallout 3. This way, no version really suffers from sales -- it's more about the "game's overall sales" here than the usual "Well, the console version was out first and sold 12.2 million (for the PS2), but the PC port that came out later only sold 180,000 copies." (GTA: San Andreas sales, anyone?)

Look at Valve's sales for L4D -- it did most of its sales on the PC. So, I really don't think PC gaming is "dead", as you so put it. I just think that these BIG companies need to learn how to adopt to the new ways the PC gaming model is actually working. And it seems to be more so headed for -- yup, you guessed it, digital distribution, for a better or worse, thanks to such avenues like Steam and Impulse. Even G4WL is going to have a marketplace for digital distribution.

Also, any of the WoW products also will tell you how "dead" PC gaming is. Same goes for -- as much as I kind of hate to say this -- Spore's sales (which sold like crazy despite the piracy insanity) and The Sims series of games (and their expansions).

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So yeah, why not focus your efforts (and monies) on developing a good game for the platforms you're most likely to have success with?  If you don't want to deal with the DRM, don't buy the game on PC.  Simple as that.  It's not like you don't have other options.  And if you like Tim Schafer and his games, why you wouldn't purchase his game on a console is just flat out beyond me.
I think b/c many feel, in most cases, the PC version of a game has more to offer than a console -- when the PC version's done correctly and not half-assed, of course. And when companies take advantage of the PC's strengths; which would be modding, the Internet, and ever-changing horsepower of the PC. 

Quote
I mean if the PC was the only gaming platform you had access to, then I could see where shitty DRM would be a problem.
I don't own a console -- and I don't plan on jumping ship to the consoles anytime soon.

About DRM on the PC, it's a problem -- and if companies want to use DRM, they should find a business model that works. B/c this current install limit bullshit is a deal breaker for many PC gamers. It forces gamers that own both the PC and console version to do one of the following: go buy the console version b/c it has no DRM, pirate a cracked copy of the PC version, or just boycott the company completely.

Quote
But most of you own consoles.  But it seems that you (and others) would rather sit here and bitch about the DRM on the PC version repeatedly than buy the console version and enjoy it.
Console gamers don't have to deal with that BS -- not yet, anyways. I wonder when it'll come, as console versions are getting pirated more so than before (but nowhere even close to a PC version's extent) and with more and more emphasis on games supporting XB-Live and PS Network.

Questions:
How would you feel if the console version got riddled w/ DRM to the point that it required activation over X-Box Live or PlayStation Network?

How would you feel if the console version allowed you to be able to run said game on ONE X-Box or ONE PS3 tied only to YOUR very own XBL or PSN account?

What if you could not run YOUR disc copy of some X-Box game on your friend's X-Box?

What if console games were no longer able to be rented at stores?

I wouldn't be surprised, if that day comes...especially with consoles getting more and more PC-like in nature...

Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: scottws on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:30:20 PM
It was mentioned on PCG's podcast recently that according to an official estimate, there were at least 25 million high end PCs out there, armed with cards at least as powerful as 8800GTs. I mentioned 10 million earlier, but that was just 8800s... Here PCG mentioned 25 million.
Don't start that shit again.  You don't have a leg to stand on.  There are a also lot of sportscars out there on the roads.  It doesn't mean people race them every weekend.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:50:26 PM
No, I don't think he's failed us.  I fully understand his logic, but it still makes me sad.  And I know a lot of people don't hate EA or get so wrapped up in business ethics, etc., but I sincerely dislike them as a company and try very hard not to support them.  Hence my own ideology gets in the way of wanting to get this game at all.  I likely will if it turns out well, but I really wish EA hadn't turned out to be the people to pick it up.  I like Pixar, but I hate Disney.  Same thing here.  I like Double Fine, but I hate EA.  It's just not a happy marriage in my book.

Don't forget that Activision, a company seen by many to be just as bad as EA, was initially publishing the game.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:29:12 AM
Don't start that shit again.  You don't have a leg to stand on.  There are a also lot of sportscars out there on the roads.  It doesn't mean people race them every weekend.

Wow, I am sorry you are so stubborn. And that analogy is absolutely stupid. You are talking about sportcars worth hundreds of thousands of dollars versus video cards that cost what, a couple of hundred bucks? Fine... let me put it in car terms, since that's how you put it. You've got a 100 Audis and 200 Beamers sold, yet you are seeing the 100 Audis being driven 10 times more. If you want to apply your car logic, how come it works only for PC hardware?

The logic is simple. You've got one market with a comparatively smaller hardware user base selling a dependent product at a far greater rate than the market with a significantly larger userbase. In other words, you have a market of 20 million Parker pens sold, as well as a 100 million generic pen refills sold to that same market. And on the other hand you have a 50 million CROSS pens sold, with only 20 million refills sold to that very market.

There is never going to be a smoking gun, but you can see fairly obvious patterns. What with publishers talking about their patches being downloaded 200 times more from separate IPs than their games sold. But I am sure a person can justify anything when they just don't want to believe it.

Quote
What the fuck?  I blamed Schafer for nothing at any point.  I'm sad to see a PC guy give up the PC legacy.  Where is there any blame there?  Did I blame him for EA's DRM?  No, I simply complained about EA's DRM being what it always is.

Sorry dude, that's how I read it as well for some reason. Now I see what you are saying.

Quote
I think Psychonauts' failure is more a testament of Majesco's failure to properly market the game than anything else.  I basically had to hear about the game through word of mouth, and I wasn't even aware Tim Schafer was responsible for the game until I happened to come home with it one day.  I'm not saying that a proper marketing push would have made the game a blockbuster hit, but it certainly would have sold more than 100,000 across the board.

Yea those are good points. I didn't hear of the game till Que started raving about it.

Let's see how well this one does with EA's marketing machine behind it.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:51:13 AM
I suspect it will be heavily promoted just due to the whole rock/metal craze that got started with Guitar Hero et al.  Any publisher to pick the game up would be plainly stupid not to promote it with the current climate being so receptive to that kind of material.  The market has the potential to receive it very well if advertising dollars are properly spent, I think.  And yes, the promotion of Psychonauts was horrendously handled.  I do feel a little bad for the fate of Majesco, but they really botched that job.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Monday, December 15, 2008, 07:14:03 AM
Yeah, the recent popularity of Guitar Hero/Rock Band titles will do nothing but good things for the game. 
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: scottws on Monday, December 15, 2008, 04:35:31 PM
I'm not saying I don't believe piracy happens.  All I'm saying is that pointing out there are X number of cards sold doesn't tell anyone anything than there are X number of cards sold.  We've been through that before, and I thought we'd put it to rest pretty soundly.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 15, 2008, 04:58:28 PM
I'm not saying I don't believe piracy happens.  All I'm saying is that pointing out there are X number of cards sold doesn't tell anyone anything than there are X number of cards sold.  We've been through that before, and I thought we'd put it to rest pretty soundly.

But, okay -- why would so many people buy video cards? Why would you buy a new video card? Likely, to play PC games, right? Right. Likely, so they can play the newest of the newest PC games, right? Right. I'd assume that's why most people buy new video cards.

But, there's also lack of PC games sales -- so, what does that tell you?

ONE. Given piracy numbers over BitTorrent alone, yeah -- games are heavily pirated. Especially certain ones. Just see the Top 10 Pirated PC Games List. Some of those games, you guess it -- have high PC requirements like say Assassin's Creed, Far Cry 2, and GTA4. They probably figure they can get it first online before the street date comes about; pirating a game a way to punch the company in the face for using crap-tastic DRM; they want to see if the game will actually run on the PC; and/or they just don't feel like paying the $40-60 price tag.
TWO. Some games with nasty DRM just ain't selling not b/c of the game, but b/c of its DRM alone -- see Far Cry 2 and many of the recent EA games with Securom Internet Edition (except say Spore). Some gamers are either boycotting purchasing the game entirely (and still not pirating it); buying the console edition instead b/c they own a of the PC version; OR are just pulling #1 above.

Back when I was in college and the DSL/broadband era came about, I knew many college students I knew that I took college classes with had spent good of money on one thing -- a top of the line PC. Often, they had a $200+ priced video card. Then what did they do? You guessed it, they pirated every BRAND new game they could get their hands on from places like say Sharereactor. I used to tell 'em, "All this time you spend downloading a game, I bought a 6-month old game (or older) for say $20 (or less) and play and finish that by the time you're done downloading your brand new game." :P
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Xessive on Monday, December 15, 2008, 05:05:14 PM
Buying a new vid card is no guarantee that you will play every game that is released, even in that year alone. It's an arbitrary assumption.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 15, 2008, 05:14:03 PM
Buying a new vid card is no guarantee that you will play every game that is released, even in that year alone. It's an arbitrary assumption.

But it's a major assumption. Why else would someone upgrade to say a GeForce 9800? B/c it largely exceeds the game "reccomended requirements" on the box for X game(s) and/or is one of the "supported chipsets on the box." Honestly, I upgraded to a GeForce 8800 GT so I could run Crysis, Mass Effect PC, and a handful of other games I saw that wanted a 256 MB GeForce 6800+ back when I had a 128 MB GeForce 6600 GT. Many games were aiming for a minimum GeForce 6800 or above and still do (like Assassin's Creed PC) -- hell, some like Alone in the Dark PC, Guitar Hero 3 PC, and Stranglehold PC are even higher (requiring a 7xxx series cards) -- so I eventually joined the pack.

I'm sure people will upgrade any pieces of hardware -- ranging from any processor to RAM to a video card -- just to run X game(s).

There are no guarantees with any system with certain games -- look at GTA4 PC and Bully PC. :P

Any time word of mouth gets around that, "This game is buggy", sales usually drastically drop. Especially if it ain't patched up decently quite fast. So, this results in people will probably wait until a game is patched up to buy the game and/or just pirate the game to punch the company in the face for releasing a buggy piece of trash.

You know, we can speculate all day...
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Xessive on Monday, December 15, 2008, 07:28:55 PM
Not necessarily. I remember a few people from university who don't even play games but always rack their systems up with killer vid cards, sound cards, cpu's and shit. It's like assuming that a guy who builds a hot rod is guaranteed to go street racing.

You're right about the bad development or porting. And you're right that we can just speculate all day hehe but we won't!

Anyway, one system of measuring sales that I don't really understand is when a certain console-friendly title comes out on multiple platforms and the test is always whether or not it does well on PC. For example the new PoP. If they really want to measure up PC sales vs PC piracy rates they should do it with a PC exclusive title.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 02:36:35 AM
I'm not saying I don't believe piracy happens.  All I'm saying is that pointing out there are X number of cards sold doesn't tell anyone anything than there are X number of cards sold.  We've been through that before, and I thought we'd put it to rest pretty soundly.

Well . . . yeah, that's all we can know for sure.  But there's nothing wrong with speculating about why people would spend a few hundred bucks on upgrading their video capability.  I can understand someone buying a whole system that happens to include a top-of-the-line vidcard, just because they want the best out of the box.  I have more trouble accepting that they would go out of their way to perform surgery on their PCs unless they intend to use the upgrades.  What is a video-card upgrade good for?  Not for Excel.  Not even for Powerpoint.   Certainly not email or web browsing.  Movies have been handled competently for years, though I can see someone who's anal about high-def out of their PCs being just as likely as game fanatics to upgrade video hardware.  I suspect their upgrades would tend to favor decoding and resolution over polygon pushing.  I don't know if there are such choices anymore.  (I'm out of the loop on new hardware, so it wouldn't surprise me if the best card for both applications is the same now.  Do they still make cards like the 3-in-Wonder, aimed more at videos than games?)

There may not be an equation here.  I can see that.  But there has to be some strong connection between video-card upgrades and graphics-intensive software use.  If an alternative exists, I want to know what it is.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 05:13:44 AM
I see what you're saying Cobra.  But does saying "There have been 25 million 8800-series cards sold" tell you anything about how many bought one for inclusion in a new system vs. upgrading from a lesser model?  Does it tell you anything about RMAs?

If you read the previous argument at all, you might understand better where I'm coming from and why I've made these statements in this thread.  I don't remember what thread it was in, but Pug was trying to relate the relatively poor sales of Crysis, Unreal Tournament III, and Gears of War to the number of 8800-series cards sold as a way to illustrate rampant piracy.  It was a poor argument then and it's a poor one now.  There are many factors why those three games sold poorly (actually I think Crysis made a rebound but that's besides the point), and piracy is but one.  Illustrating how many 8800-series cards have been sold as it is somehow definitive proof of piracy with very little other information provided is ultimately fruitless as it tells you only once small piece of a very large puzzle.

Look, we all know piracy happens.  The wool isn't pulled over my eyes.  But you will never convince me that just because a certain series of cards were sold that X number of games should have been sold.  This isn't the console market.  PCs are used for other things.

By the way, when I mentioned sportscars earlier, I wasn't talking about Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Aston Martins exclusively.  I was talking about things like Mustang GTs, Camaros, Corvettes, Porches, Lancer EVOs, etc.  None of those cars are several hundred thousand dollars.  Just because you have a big engine doesn't mean you race the thing.  I think it was perfectly acceptable counter-argument.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 06:54:47 AM
You choose to still ignore the reason why I brought up the number of 8800s sold. As I recall, when we earlier talked about Crysis selling poorly (during its first month of release), many, including yourself, stated that not enough people had 8800+ cards to run the game. That's why I mentioned the 10 mil. stat, and I explained this last time as well, but people tend to conveniently forget about that. You can go ahead and look at the thread where we last had this debate. I mentioned this back then as well.

So here is what I think. Co-relating the number of high end video cards with the sales of Crysis is only valid when it suits arguments that games like Crysis didn't sell well because people didn't have the hardware. But, as soon as we learn that not only such powerful systems matched the console hardware sales, but exceeded them by a good 50%, it isn't a good argument?

I am sorry, but that's b.s., and that's hypocritical. A poor argument should be a poor argument regardless. Not just when it suits your point of view.

edit:

Should add, that I am not really pissed or anything, even if it may appear from this post. It sounds rougher than I meant it to be.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Xessive on Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 07:18:34 AM
Speaking of Crysis, remember when Crytek said they were developing it to be scalable? That it would run on older systems? Good times.

Regarding hardware that signals game purchases, what about gaming peripherals? like gamepads, joysticks, and steering wheels? I know they don't really apply to all games but might suggest something about cross-platform games. Or even gaming mice and keyboards.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 09:58:32 AM
Quote
Speaking of Crysis, remember when Crytek said they were developing it to be scalable? That it would run on older systems? Good times.

Regarding hardware that signals game purchases, what about gaming peripherals? like gamepads, joysticks, and steering wheels? I know they don't really apply to all games but might suggest something about cross-platform games. Or even gaming mice and keyboards.

Well it does... just like an old man.

Steering wheels and joysticks are poor sellers on the PC these days. Mice and keyboards are cheap enough to sell multiple times to the same person. But those items are as singular purposed as video cards.


Quote
This isn't the console market.  PCs are used for other things.

See that's the thing. Here we are talking about high end video cards. Until two weeks ago, your 8800 series card was useless outside of gaming. Finally, we have a patch that allows high end Nvidia cards to boost photoshop performance (and even now, not by much). Even now, you need a card specifically designed for video work. 3D studio max is still unaffected by having a powerful gaming card... for that sorta thing you actually need a workstation card, which doesn't work for gaming.

See, if we were talking about processors, or RAM, I would understand and your counter arguments would be valid. Not everyone has high end processors/RAM to game. In fact, most do to run their profession related applications faster.

But we are talking about video cards here. They don't have multiple purposes. In fact, consoles are more multipurpose than high end video cards. So I really don't understand how the rules change when it comes to them. Video cards have absolutely no other purpose than gaming.

edit:

Also, I apologize for hijacking this thread etc etc.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 10:01:48 AM
Video cards have absolutely no other purpose than gaming.

edit:

Also, I apologize for hijacking this thread etc etc.

I'm terribly out of the loop on video cards, so I'm not exactly sure what the threshold is nowadays.  But would it not be fair to take into account the number of cards that will come prepackaged with big box PC's or otherwise?  Surely that counts for a somewhat significant percentage.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 10:22:04 AM
No, I am sure it does.

The stat I read was until the end of 2008, there were 10 million 8800 series cards alone sold. 2.5 million 8800gts were sold in 6 weeks in North America alone. These weren't prepackaged, and these didn't include high end video cards from ATi, or Nvidia cards that came from series 9 and series GTX.

The PC gamerpodcast reported over 50 million high end cards sold (in PCs like Alienware, DELL XPS, gaming notebooks or just separately) since 2006. Separately they said something around 25 million. You guys can find the podcast on their website.

That 50 million stat was worldwide, and I am sure you can discount a huge percentage of those as second buys, upgrades (stepups), prepacked etc etc etc. I realize that. But even after subtracting those, you are left with a ton of people who bought a piece of expensive equipment to play games, because that's all that piece of equipment was designed to do. If video cards are something most people take out of the garage only once a week, then why can't the same rule be applied to consoles.

Anyway, like I said, I only brought everyone's notice to that 10 mil. stat earlier because people were blaming high end games tanking because the market lacked the hardware.

So Brutal Legend should be good. I really enjoy many of Jack Black's movies, and enjoy his sense of humor. This game should rock (ha ha).

Concept art:

(http://www.bdegen.de/wp-content/upload/2007/12/brutal-legend-screenshot-05.jpg)
(http://www.xbox-gamer.net/screens/1839_41142_Brutal_Legend.jpg)

Screenies: (first is from an FMV)

(http://www.brutallegend.net/media/brutal_legend_20080917021509.jpg)
(http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/12508/278059_full.jpg)
(http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/832/832903/br252tal-legend-20071105064344229-000.jpg)

Game has shades of Full Throttle.

OK so it just has a motorbike.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 06:41:31 PM
Good gods, have any of you guys seen the screenshots for the game up on GSpot now (probably also elsewhere)?  Holy shit, it looks amazing.  Seriously.  My jaw dropped at almost every screen they've gotten the art so perfect.  I had thought previously things looked good and such, but they've just nailed this shit.  It's even got what feels like a Full Throttle vibe every so often.

New trailer (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/brutallegend/video/6209058/brutal-legend-he-is-a-legend-trailer) apparently, too, which is pretty funny.

(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/119/943673_20090430_790screen002.jpg)
(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/119/943673_20090430_790screen005.jpg)
(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/091/reviews/943672_04032009_790screen002.jpg)
(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/091/reviews/943672_04032009_790screen003.jpg)
(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/091/reviews/943672_04032009_790screen005.jpg)
(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/040/943673_20090210_790screen001.jpg)

Hell, I can't help it.  I need this game.  It calls to my soul.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 07:18:54 PM
Brutal Legend does look pretty cool -- awesome artistic artwork style; cool music; some comedy that many modern games seem to lack; and the signature of Tim Shafer with Double Fine written all over it. Yeah, how can I not be interested?

Well, with no PC version announced by EA or Double Fine yet, they just ain't getting any money from me anytime soon.

Hope all goes well, Double Fine. I'd hate to see them go the way of the dodo. This game, I think, will either make them or break them, financially. I really hope they sell tons of copies on the console -- and that all goes so well, that they do intend to port this one over to the PC who are waiting for Tim Shafer to let us in on the rocking, too!

When you do, Double Fine and EA, my X360 Controller for Windows will be ready!


Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, May 14, 2009, 12:58:04 AM
Oh my god! That is fantastic looking.

That almost looks a bit like that classic American animation, Heavy Metal.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, May 14, 2009, 02:00:55 AM
I am really glad Double Fine found a way to develop this. Even if it is with EA. I hope the game kicks as much (or more) ass as it seems!
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, May 14, 2009, 03:04:17 AM
That creature in the first screenie looks like something out of Del Toro's head.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, June 02, 2009, 04:01:01 PM
G4TV is showing off this game w/ Tim Schafer hosting.

This has the coolest pillar of skulls (pun intended) I've seen since probably Planescape: Torment.

This game looked awesome already -- but my God, it looks ever more kick-ass in motion and everything; especially w/ the artistry.

LMAO @ the cut-scene where Jack Black and Ophelia character are talking to each other and they are talking non-chalantly with their weapons -- and accidentally cutting enemies. Hilarious.

Double Fine, EA -- I *beg* of you now...please...please bring this to the PC in the future after this game rocks the shit out of the consoles!

We need more creativity and new shit like this and LESS freakin' ho-hum sequels.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, June 04, 2009, 02:05:40 PM
Activision is suing EA over the rights to publishing Brutal Legend -- since Activision sunk some $15 million dollars into the game before (somehow) EA became the final publisher. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174619)

EDIT:
Tim Schafer responds to the Brutal Legend lawsuit. (http://kotaku.com/5279255/tim-schafer-responds-to-activisions-brutal-legend-lawsuit)

Quote
Activision's none too pleased about Double Fine Productions' heavy metal epic Brütal Legend having gone to EA. So it's suing the developer. What say you, Double Fine president Tim Schafer?

"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyoncé is going to sue me too."

And that's about the best official response to a lawsuit we've ever heard at Kotaku. if only legal battle could be settled in a battle of wits, instead of extended litigation and a series of public relations disasters, the world would be a better place.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, June 04, 2009, 10:22:09 PM
Jeez.  Somebody find a publisher that isn't shit to step in and take it away from both of them.  This game deserves better.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, June 05, 2009, 06:10:50 AM
hahah that was pretty funny comment from Schafer.

Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Friday, June 05, 2009, 01:47:58 PM
Jeez.  Somebody find a publisher that isn't shit to step in and take it away from both of them.  This game deserves better.

Yeah, no shit.

Stardock, FTW.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: wizall on Friday, June 05, 2009, 03:21:23 PM
Gotta admit, this game didn't really interest me until I saw the coverage at E3. It looks like a hell of a good time.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Friday, June 05, 2009, 04:22:32 PM
It looks like a hell of a good time.
I'd expect nothing less from Double Fine.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, June 05, 2009, 05:02:46 PM
I hope the game does well, if only for Double Fine's sake.  Psychonauts deserved to be so much more successful than it was, and Brutal Legend looks, like... all... legendary and stuff.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: wizall on Friday, June 05, 2009, 06:49:44 PM
Christ, I can't believe I forgot to play Psychonauts. I couldn't find it on the PS2 after it had been out a while so I gave up. I think it's available for DL on the 360. Gotta nab it.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Friday, June 05, 2009, 06:57:16 PM
Man, I really should dive back into Psychonauts, since I never finished the damn thing.
Que, did you finish it?
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, June 05, 2009, 07:04:42 PM
Twice.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: gpw11 on Friday, June 05, 2009, 09:15:47 PM
Quote
"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyoncé is going to sue me too."

What?  That's a horrible, horrible line.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, June 14, 2009, 04:08:13 PM
Ronnie James Dio is no longer going to be doing any voice-over work in Brutal Legend. All his voice-over work has been removed from the game.

Tim Curry will be replacing him and taking over his role completely in Brutal Legend. (http://www.destructoid.com/more-troubles-for-br-tal-legend-136170.phtml)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, June 14, 2009, 04:16:44 PM
His name is Ronnie.

Weird, either way.  Tim Curry seems like an odd replacement, but... whatever.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, June 14, 2009, 04:21:44 PM
Thanks for the correction, Que.

I don't know much about Dio, but I don't think of heavy metal when I think of Tim Curry.  ???
Hope he does a good job w/ the voice-acting and that it fits the game, though.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 06, 2009, 02:01:44 PM
Lawsuit has been settled b/t EA and Activision. (http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=100797)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: sirean_syan on Friday, August 14, 2009, 10:40:53 AM
I guess they've been showing off the multiplayer over the past couple days (it's at all the gaming sites, just take your pick and it shouldn't be hard to find) and it's all pretty surprising. After all this time I don't think I heard one mention of multiplayer even existing, let alone be anything worthwhile. Supposedly, it was even the inspiration to make the game in the first place. The craziest part is that it sounds a lot like Sacrifice in that it's somewhere in between a standard RTS and an action game. It even has the sort of weirdness to it with all the metal inspired units and such. Go fig. Maybe we'll have to try out a game or two when it comes out.

Oh yeah. A link: Fun interview with Tim Schaffer at Giant Bomb. (http://www.giantbomb.com/tim-schafer-on-brutal-legend/17-1184/)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 15, 2009, 08:24:45 AM
I want my own Hate Cage.

That actually does sound pretty awesome.  I was a huge, huge fan of Sacrifice, and this does seem to have a similar vibe.  Ugh... I'm looking forward to this game way too much.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 15, 2009, 08:30:48 AM
Ugh... I'm looking forward to this game way too much.
I beg to differ - no, you are not!
I think Brutal Legend looks flippin' awesome.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Thursday, September 17, 2009, 06:04:08 PM
I just finished the demo.  This game is going to kick serious amounts of ass
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, September 17, 2009, 06:42:28 PM
I didn't even know there was a demo.  Not going to play it, though.  I know I want the game and am just going to wait.

Glad to hear favorable impressions, though.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Thursday, September 17, 2009, 07:16:47 PM
Well in order to get access to the demo you had to sell your soul to the devil (Preorder at Gamestop).  The demo released today for those who preorder, next week for those who didn't.  Just so happened a Gamestop opened in my town today.

Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Thursday, September 17, 2009, 08:21:56 PM
I just watched a full playthrough of the demo on Youtube and now I want this. I was vaguely interested before, and now I really want it.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 06:35:41 AM
I played through the demo for the 5th time last night and I must say it still kicks ass.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 07:49:43 AM
So I was listening to the Giantbomb podcast, and they were were likening it to Sacrifice, which really caught me off guard. I had always assumed this was 3rd person action adventure.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 07:59:49 AM
It's mostly action, but there are some strategy elements integrated.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 01:04:47 PM
I've heard that as the game builds up your skills and adds stuff, you end up leading an army of headbangers and it almost becomes like a very action oriented RTS, and that's how the multiplayer is. The whole RTS part sort of turns me off since I don't like them so much, but what I've seen of the game looks amazing, so I'm willing to give it a shot. (The demo is still only out for those who preordered, so I've been watching it repeatedly on Youtube. I can't get enough of it.)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 06:39:42 PM
It's supposed to be closer to Sacrifice than anything else.  Apparently the game was really built around the MP and stuff, which I wasn't aware of.  That's where the ideas started, though, and they went from there.  So it gradually builds up in the SP portion of the game.  But Sacrifice isn't an RTS in the strictest sense.  I'm really not a big RTS guy and yet Sacrifice is easily one of my top 5 games of all time (and it's aged really well - GOG sells it, and I highly recommend it to everyone).

I think this'll be a little something different, but will probably appeal to a wide audience in terms of gameplay.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 01:31:42 AM
I bought Sacrifice off GOG, installed it, but never played it rofl. I had it on CD at some point in the past too, and never installed it.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 05:32:50 AM
Maybe old news, but Gamestop preorders get an game Tenacious D guitar (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/06/gamestops-brutal-legend-preorder-bonus-is-a-tribute/).

Quote
According to GameStop, the axe was made "in close collaboration with Jack Black and Kyle Gass of Tenacious D" and features not just a customized appearance (with a sweet "Tenacious D" fretboard and image of the band on the body), but "new sound effects, new voice over work from Jack Black and Kyle Gass, a new visual effects suite, and new geeky technical stuff like unique textures, materials and shaders."

I've listened to some Tenacious D and liked some of it. I've liked some of Jack Black's movies. I'm also a sucker for bonus stuff, especially when it's in game. It sounds like some effort was put into adding this little bonus. But if this ends up being a permanent replacement for the in game guitar, and you hear obvious Tenacious D song clips when you use it to attack (possibly accompanied by Jack Black singing), that might just be a little too much Jack Black for me. I'll accept and probably even enjoy Jack Black being in the game, but I don't want "Jack Black: The Game." The idea of bonus content is tempting, but I'd hate to get stuck with more Jack Black than I'd want out of the game.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Thursday, September 24, 2009, 01:31:14 PM
Demo is available for those who didn't preorder. (on Xbox Live, I'm assuming it's on PSN now too)

Testament on the title screen. I think I'm in love.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: ScaryTooth on Saturday, October 03, 2009, 08:54:51 PM
Hahaha. I just got done playing the demo for the second time. It's really not what I expected, I guess. I haven't really looked into it that much, but now, I totally want it. It rocks!

It's really really funny, and the game play is actually a lot of fun. Already love the characters. Gonna buy it!
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, October 04, 2009, 07:06:53 AM
I'm going to have to play that demo.  I'm at Sandy's now, but she's headed to Nashville later this week, and I'll have some time to dedicate to the Xbox.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, October 04, 2009, 03:17:57 PM
The demo was great, though it felt somehow muted in terms of ambience, it had a lot of uncomfortable silences (no music etc.). I'm really looking forward to it though!

It's not groundbreaking in technical graphics, but the art and style make the whole game.

I love how the option to enable/disable explicit language shows up right in the middle of Eddie's sentence ;D "You stupid mother-- Do you wish to enable etc.-- *FA%^&^!"
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, October 04, 2009, 03:33:55 PM
hahaha
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Monday, October 12, 2009, 06:05:54 AM
9.0 from IGN for X360 and PS3. (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/103/1033952p1.html)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, October 12, 2009, 07:33:09 AM
Played the demo a few days ago.  I've been catching up on X360 free DLC goodies.  It looks amazing, and it's a technical tour de force.  So very smooth and polished.  I don't think the demo is representative of the game, though, given what I've seen here and elsewhere.  The demo makes it seems like a straight brawler.  I need that review and others, more for info than critique.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:14:54 AM
I'm headed out now to preorder it (rofl). Hopefully it's not too late to get the Gamestop preorder bonus. I'll probably save it for later and experience the game without it at first.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, October 12, 2009, 06:21:16 PM
I seem to be feeling like total shit at an opportune time.  I'm probably not going in to work tomorrow, so I may stay home and pick this up instead.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Monday, October 12, 2009, 11:29:57 PM
Im off tomorrow, hooray! So I should be able to put plenty of time into it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 12:03:07 AM
Aw, you're going 360 then?  I guess we won't have epic metal fights.  I'll probably suck too much for that to matter anyway, heh.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 02:25:19 AM
I went 360. I fully expect to be atrocious at the multi though, with it's RTS elements. Hopefully it's light enough for me to not suck. It's the combination of resource gathering, unit management, tech trees, and upgrades that kills me. It's always a race to see who can build an army fastest, and I'm always too slow at it.

I can't make it into town until wednesday afternoon, so I have to wait. :(
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 07:07:55 AM
Gentlemen.  It is ROCKTOBER 13TH BABY!

Now, to go purchase the best game ever smelted.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 07:13:23 AM
I'm staying home sick today and it's storming here like effing crazy.  Which is good because we desperately need rain, but I hope the power doesn't go out again.  We lost it this morning for a few, and it was lucky I woke up to reset the alarm otherwise I'd have been out of luck for calling in on time.

I still feel like shit, but I don't think I'm actually sick.  I think I'm just exhausted and overworked from last week.  Either way, today seems a good day to stay the hell home.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 08:48:05 AM
I can't help but smile at the irony of EA rescuing BL after it was dropped by what became Activision Blizzard during a merger.  Then AB turns around and sues to block publishing when they realized their blunder.  Double Fine et al then countersue, with one of the allegations being than AB was trying to protect its Guitar Hero franchise, and had dropped the game because it couldn't be turned into a GH sequel.  LOL!  I like this quote:

Quote
An EA spokesman likened the situation to "a husband abandoning his family and then suing after his wife meets a better-looking guy."
  LA Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/08/actvision-double-fine-brutal-legend-settlement.html)

Personally, I think this GH/Rock Band cash cow is at least as big an evil now as EA.  Why spend resources on making real games when there's such an easy revenue stream from endless song additions and incremental sequels?
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 08:56:38 AM
I am in complete agreement.

EDIT - I have the game.  Will weigh in with initial impressions shortly.  As the most die-hard metalhead here, most of those impression will probably consist of, "DUDE DID YOU SEE THAT HUGE PILE OF SKULLS?! THAT WAS FUCKING EPIC!"
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 02:01:42 PM
some initial reviews are pretty lackluster.  I've got to admit that I'm seriously considering taking my unopened copy back to Gamestop and exchanging it for Uncharted 2
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 02:12:03 PM
I don't see anything below 79 on Metacritic.  I'm guessing it'll mostly hover in the mid-80s, which seems about right for what it offers.  So far I'm having a good time, and while not any one thing is ridiculously deep or mind-blowing, it combines all elements into a whole that doesn't feel shallow or boring.  The multiplayer looks fantastic, too.  I haven't played any, but have watched a bit.  Definitely reminds me heavily of Sacrifice, which is more than a good thing.

For me, the whole package would be worth it just for the crazy heavy metal world alone.  The stuff they've put in the world just looks perfect.  If this ever comes out on PC, I'll end up getting it and taking five billion high-res screenshots, and if they ever come out with some sort of art book or whatever, I'll be all over it.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 02:13:03 PM
I'm about 90% convinced to exchange it right now after reading joystiq and arstechnica's reviews.  Apparently the game starts out amazing and then really sinks after the first few hours.  And apparently the RTS elements are poorly implemented and frustrating.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 02:16:04 PM
And apparently Uncharted 2 is video game Jesus
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 02:28:55 PM
I just got back with my copy, and I'm installing to my Xbox HD right now. I can't wait to play.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 02:38:21 PM
Well, I haven't gotten too far in, so I can't say a whole lot.  I'll say this: from reading those two reviews, I don't know what those guys were expecting.  They were obviously expecting more than was ever promised, because from what I can tell, this is exactly what it was supposed to be and nothing more.

Anyway, initial impressions are as follows:

It isn't as funny as Psychonauts, but I don't think it's trying to be.  Funny is only part of it.  But again, early on here, so I can't comment on that as a whole.  There were some good laughs thus far either way.  It looks good, and while there are a few technical issues, it's hardly anything to waste time whining about, IMO.  The art is utterly fantastic, and a hitch or two here or there are no big deal.  I've seen plenty of other high-profile games perform even worse and get little abuse about it from the press.  But again, that's only so far.

Ultimately, the single player feels like it's going to be teaching you how to play the multiplayer.  They gradually give you new stuff to think about, you get new units, and then supposedly the latter half of the game focuses more heavily on the full-battle RTS part of the game.  From what I've seen of the mulitplayer, this seems tight and fun, and something you can get good at as you play.  The different unit types are fun and have interesting mechanics, and being able to "use" every unit to do an extra-powerful move or to manually control them is neat.

The base game is what it is.  Expecting it to go very far from that is a mistake.  The above is what the game wants to be, and it manages to do some other stuff that's a little bit different and then pepper it all throughout the awesome game world.  That's what this game is, and if you're expecting anything else, you'll come away disappointed, I think.  But I don't know why you'd be expecting anything else.  They've been pretty clear about the premise and method right from the beginning.  You drive your car around, do missions to advance the story, explore to unlock shit, and then you can do some side stuff if you feel like it to upgrade your car and guitar.  And you do it while screwing around with stuff, riding crazy animals that have spikes sticking out of them everywhere, and listening to High Speed Dirt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW1_PGKGpSQ) really loud.

I think the complaints of those two reviews are valid for some but are probably subjective.  The real complaint, ultimately, sounds like the length of the campaign.  Apparently you can finish it quite fast if you put your mind to it, and while collectors and explorers will have fun trying to do everything, the main game just isn't all that substantial from a content standpoint.  But again, this was a multiplayer-focused project from the start in a lot of ways, and they never really billed it as super long.  I can't remember specific quotes or anything, but I was always under the impression it wasn't going to be a long ride.  I figure I'll get at least 10 hours out of it myself, potentially more depending on how obsessive I get with finding stuff (I tend to enjoy that sort of thing).

Anyway... *shrug*.  Uncharted 2 actually doesn't interest me in the least because I've played that game before in other various forms about a million times, and while the raw gameplay of Brutal Legend may not be the most original or the most compelling ever (again, it's too early for me to truly say one way or the other), the actual package is something totally unique.  That means more to me than it does to some.

EDIT - I'd also like to take a minute to point out that those reviews felt a bit on the skimpy side and didn't even mention a lot of stuff, or glossed over the multiplayer almost completely.  The combat is certainly better than "swing axe up close, use guitar at range" unless you're an idiot.  There are a fair number of options available at any given time, and in MP you've also got two different factions to choose that are dissimilar to the regular good guy faction.  The reviewing there feels a bit cheap, like they weren't that into it from the start and just sort of oozed their way to the end to write the review.  Dunno'.

Also, it's sad to see how dependent people are on reviews.  The comments at ArsTechnica were like, "Oh, it isn't as good as I hoped?  Well, I guess I better not bother to play it, then," which is fucking retarded if you're only going on some general comments.  If you read a bunch and just get the impression it isn't for you, that's another matter, but... eh, I don't know, I just hate what reviewing has become, I guess.  Other reviews have been much more positive, so why are the words of one person so important?  I mean, they could all be wrong too... it's personal opinion.  I fucking loved Dawn of Mana even though seemingly every reviewer on the planet panned it (and personally, I think most of the complaints were complete bullshit) - you just never know with this stuff.  I suppose the crux is the fact that games cost so much now nobody ever wants to take a risk.  But I'm usually far more satisfied with games people liked less rather than with the ones everybody loves.  Half-life 2?  Passable at best.  The Darkness?  One of the best games in 10 years.

EDIT x2 - I'd also like to point out that KISS released a new 3-disc Walmart exclusive album, and it's apparently extremely popular.  KISS is one of the worst motherfucking bands in the history of mankind, with Walmart closely behind as one of the worst store chains to ever bulldoze a small town so we could buy cheaper toiler paper.  Other people's opinions = horseshit.

EDIT x3 - Some good gameplay footage here (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/brutallegend/video/6232660/gamespot-presents-now-playing--brutal-legend?hd=1), with Shafer and some dudes chatting.  Second half is a half-hour of multiplayer.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 03:20:09 PM
As a quick note, I'd like to say that it sounds like I'm trying really hard to defend the game, but I'm really not.  Lately the state of games journalism and the people who read it are just pissing me off.  It was gratifying to see a number of reviews for Demon's Souls that said, "You know, this game just totally isn't for me because it's too fucking hard, but the game itself is amazing," but real perspective is awfully hard to come by these days.

EDIT - Just played an hour of multiplayer.  Totally, totally fun.  Takes some getting used to, but experience with Sacrifice will give you an edge.  I sort of sucked and was just playing against an easy AI, but I really like the way this works.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 04:48:32 PM
I caved and exchanged for Uncharted.  I figure i'll probably like Brutal Legend just fine, but I'll be more apt to find it down the road cheaper than I would Uncharted 2, considering it's a console exclusive (and the fact the first game was 60 bucks until it went greatest hits).

I feel as somehow I've let Tim Schafer down.

I'm sorry Tim.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 05:11:55 PM
You have.  Also, you've totally proven that you're completely not metal.  So you have fun playing with Mr. Shirt Technology, while I rip devil-bears apart with an axe like a real man.

Do give impressions on Uncharted 2, though.  I don't have much interest due to theme, but I'm curious to get a first-hand account of why it's so great.  Nothing I've seen thus far looks all that amazing.  Not bad or anything, just sort of... yeah, it's a game with guns and shit.  So I want to know the real deal.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 05:14:12 PM
Everything I've read suggests it's about as close to a popcorn action flick as you're going to get with a video game.  Apparently some rather solid multiplayer as well
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 05:27:26 PM
What's utterly hilarious about the whole thing is that a week ago BL was going to be the only game I bought this holiday.  Then I end up NOT getting it and buying uncharted and Demons Souls
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 05:32:00 PM
Well, you're at least a little metal for getting Demon's Souls because that game is epic as hell.  But this guy is still calling you out (http://www.crispygamer.com/gamereviews/2009-10-13/uncharted-2-among-thieves-ps3.aspx).

EDIT - So I kind of really love this game.  I get that it isn't perfect and whatever, but... I fucking love this game.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 03:39:56 PM
8.5 from GameSpot
Video review. (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/brutallegend/video/6232968/brutal-legend-video-review?tag=summary;watch-review)
Written review. (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/brutallegend/review.html)

4 1/2 stars from GameSpy
Written review. (http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/brutal-legend/1034868p1.html)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 04:32:33 PM
EDIT - So I kind of really love this game.  I get that it isn't perfect and whatever, but... I fucking love this game.

Yea me too, I guess I can see some problems with the RTS stuff but I'm actually having fun with it, I haven't read reviews that hit on that aspect too much, I think it's biggest fault is with controls. RTS is not really meant for a controller so I can imagine how hard it must have been to figure out how to make it work. Sure it's a little hectic at first but I think it's still manageable.

Other than that there's the exploration and the story stuff which has all just been fantastic. I played all day yesterday and had a complete blast. Also listening to Dragonforce as a temple collapses all around you making your escape is as epic as it gets.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: K-man on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 04:40:38 PM
I think if Uncharted had not come out yesterday there would be no doubt that I would have kept the game and enjoyed it.  But when I've got the choice between a good game with problems and a game that is being near universally heralded as one of the best gaming experiences ever, I'm going to take the best ever every time.

It's probably a game that would have greatly benefited from releasing in July or August.  The next few months are going to be so crowded with good to great releases that middle of the road to good just doesn't cut it.

Of course this is all conjecture on my part, as I have only played the demo of Brutal Legend.  I could end up loving the game.  I think people just expected the game to be much more than it was, considering it was headed up by Schafer and Double Fine.  And I mean who wouldn't expect a great amount considering what he's delivered in the past?
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 05:32:29 PM
The game has some weak spots, but I think the subject matter carries it a lot. I love just cruising around in the Deuce listening to the soundtrack, looking for relics and stuff. I'm almost afraid to progress the story too much because I've heard it's a short game and I don't want it to be over already. Though you can still wander and do side quests/unlocks after the story is over so I guess there's no reason not to push further into it.

I just had my first stage battle. My only real complaint is the inability to fly yet (which I've seen in multiplayer videos). I felt somewhat blinded by my ground level viewpoint.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 06:49:59 PM
Yeah, I couldn't figure out how to do it in the MP game I played, so it must be something you either have to unlock in SP or I just couldn't figure out the controls for.  I think the RTS stuff is pretty manageable, but a bit tough when you can't see so good.  Being able to fly will fix that right up, and allow you to quickly run back to base to get guys and order them around, etc.

While I think a lot of times concept isn't as worthy as gameplay, in this case I think the concept is so fantastic it adds something just by itself.  I wouldn't call the game average.  It isn't perfect, but it's still pretty damned good.  Biggest complaint for me will likely be the fact that there wasn't more raw content to play through.  Either way, I've just never had an experience that felt like this one.  Uncharted 2 could be the most tightly-wrought game in the history of mankind, but I've still kind of played that game a thousand times in one form or another.  Even if Legend isn't technically as awesome or as perfectly-crafted, it's still unlike anything I've ever played when you combine all the elements that make it what it is, and that makes it the real must-play for me.  But I more or less felt like that even before I'd picked it up, so that was a driving force for me all along, really.  And it isn't like it's a bad thing if somebody wants to play Uncharted 2 instead.  Everybody has their own priorities.  Like I said earlier, concept carries a hell of a lot more weight with me than it does with many.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 07:34:50 PM
I just played a quick stage battle against easy AI. Clicking the right stick (on the Xbox version at least) pulls you up into the air. Air controls are simple and easy: No elevation changes, look with right stick, move with left.

I as a little confused becasue I don't know about all the upgrade requirements and what the different units do.





I was just finding out about this achievement:

Six Degrees of Schafer
Play with or against another player who has this achievement.



So Tim just tweeted about an hour ago that his username on both XBL and PSN is TimOfLegend, and not to add him unless you're playing BL. He's probably swarmed with people right now rofl.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 07:45:23 PM
haha, that's nuts, why would he do that?  I've never been tempted to add a "celebrity" to my friends list before, but I just might have to do it now.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 08:00:19 PM
Well, once he plants his seed the achievement will spread and lots of people will have it. At this point if I did it, and IF I got a game with him, it would basically be "hey man, I love your game, come kick my ass so I can get an achievement."
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 09:10:39 PM
Que, you got the PS3 version, right? Tim Schafer just tweeted that he just hooked up his PS3 and is logging on. I guess he's only been playing people on Xbox so far.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 09:31:06 PM
Damn, my wife is using the only TV that has cable which is where the PS3 is.  Somebody else go play for me.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Thursday, October 15, 2009, 02:42:17 AM
Oh I was wrong about the flight controls. You can move up and down with the triggers. Also you can split some units off from the group by pressing Y, issuing an order, then releasing Y. Yea... manuals have some useful info apparently.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Thursday, October 15, 2009, 06:32:10 PM
So I finished it last night, so I guess its shorter than I would have liked, but damn it was still so good, I loved it. There hasnt been such a world in a video game that I've come to like so much such as this. Luckily it throws you back in after you've finished so you can find the remaining little quests and relics which I fully plan on doing. Still havent played a multiplayer game yet, which I'll do here shortly.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, October 15, 2009, 07:20:20 PM
Awesome, glad you dug it.  I think I'm going to start it over because Julia wants to watch.  And I'm totally okay with that.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Thursday, October 15, 2009, 08:21:04 PM
The only gripe I have so far is that the exploration aspect seems very seperate from the main story, almost to the extent that it feels like 2 games in the same world. You have this very linear story progression and at certain points you're told, "we'll meet you there." So then the OCD part of my break freaks out if I stop to explore instead of metting up with whoever. I guess that's it really, just the fact that my brain doesn't like it when I switch between the two parts of the game.

Though there was one part where I died repeatedly, and felt like if I had wandered around more to get.. whatever the currency for upgrades is called, I coudl have bought more moves and had an easier time. So you sort of need to explore and find stuff.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, October 15, 2009, 09:53:25 PM
It feels pretty much like GTA in that regard.  Go around and do whatever, then go to point X in order to start mission Y.  Being OCD in the other direction, I basically just keep exploring for hours on end and not doing the missions, heh.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Thursday, October 15, 2009, 10:26:17 PM
Giantbomb video review is up. (http://www.giantbomb.com/brutal-legend-video-review/17-1505/)

Ive read the review I think Ryan covers it fairly well. I also really hate how 3 out of 5 stars counts as a 60 out of a 100, Ive always looked at the Giantbomb scoring system to be a pretty broad score contrasted to something more precise like 1-100, which I like. Also in my opinion, I fucking hate review scores, in every sense of the word, I know they will never go away, but its something in games journalism I wish would just disappear. Want to know how the game turned out? Read the review and make your judgment off that.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Thursday, October 15, 2009, 10:55:29 PM
I don't think you can really compare 3/5 to 60% or 60/100. I see 3/5 as a game you might recommend, or a fan of the IP or subject matter would love, but other might get bored with. I definitely see how Brutal Legend can fit into that category.

What disappointed me about the review was that at least twice he basically said metal is for teenagers. He says the art style is somethign a 13 year old would dream about looking at a Judas Priest album cover, and later he says that just like metal's teenage fans, the game has some issues. OK, so you don't like metal, but you don't have to insult those that do in your review. Was there no metal fan in the Giantbomb office to review this instead?

I was also disappointed to hear hiphop beats in the background of a review for a metal game, but that's just nitpicking I suppose.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, October 15, 2009, 11:54:01 PM
Well, GiantBomb is all about the hiphop, don'tcha know.  Because Jeff is hard, from the ghetto.  Or something.  But yeah, that's pretty stupid considering most young kids aren't into metal.  Some still are, but even in my youth metal wasn't the rebellious, teenage thing it once was.  And it certainly isn't now.  Kids listen to fucking bullshit now like ICP or Slipknot or really extreme stuff that's ridiculous and over the top without actually being any good.  Brutal Legend is really more about classic metal than it is modern stuff.  A lot of the bands it pays homage to still exist and such, but even amongst those a lot don't have the same image they did in their glory days.  But that's not the point anyway.  The point is that metal is more for the 20s to 50s crowd and you see far more of those folks at shows than you do young kids, who are probably at home dreaming about being rap stars and ridin' in limos with all dey bitches yo.

I'm actually enjoying the game even more now that I've started it over.  The game just jumps in so fast you really don't get to savor the experience the first time.  It's one of those openings that just goes too quickly and should have been about double length so things could ramp up a bit.  But that isn't a problem after you've already been suitably immersed in the vibe of the game, so it's more entertaining the 2nd time around.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Friday, October 16, 2009, 02:52:26 AM
Yea, I like Giantbomb, but I've noticed that at least Jeff is really into rap, not sure about the others. It's a weird thing that I've always noticed. Here's a nerdy white dude who plays video games all the time, so much that he's made it his job, and he jams out to hardcore gangster rap?

I was just looking at the chapters list from the main menu and I can see where I started doing serious eploration. My early chapters are all like 15-30 minutes apart in total time played. Then I get to one that's 4 hours, and the next one is 7.5 hours. So I spent 3.5 hours exploring before moving on. Also, at around 8 hours, I don't think I can be much more than halfway through the game. Anyone who completed it in 4 hours has to have rushed through and not savored it at all.

I keep making the mistake of turning the game on late. Once I start playing I don't want to stop, and I forget about that until I'm actually playing.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, October 16, 2009, 03:50:24 AM
If any of you are interested in finding absolutely everything around the world I found this map, its the only one I managed to find that shows where everything is.

Obvious spoilerage.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, October 16, 2009, 06:30:08 PM
Awesome, thanks dude.

Pretty sure I'm going to do nothing but play this tonight.  I need to lose myself in something really, really badly.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Friday, October 16, 2009, 08:05:20 PM
I just had my first case of "fuck, I suck at RTS so I can't pass this level". I tried to upgrade units and defend merch booths, and failed miserably, 3 times in a row.

So I started again and just headbanger zerged the enemy stage and won in less than 5 minutes, only grabbing the central 2 fan geysers on my way, so I could build even more headbangers. No ranged units, no healing units, just cheap melee. For the first time I actually ran into the unit capacity before I ran out of fans. The previous 3 attempts I kept getting stuck at 12/40 units be no fans to build more.


Playing on normal btw.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Friday, October 16, 2009, 10:39:20 PM
Bah, completely stuck again. On the last battle (I think).

(click to show/hide)

Is my strategy fucked? My execution? I feel like I'm doing everything I can but I'm at a disadvantage because of the way the battle is setup at the start.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, October 16, 2009, 10:48:21 PM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Friday, October 16, 2009, 11:15:31 PM
(click to show/hide)

Man do I hate RTS. The battles were fun when they were still simpler, but it feels like it's gone too far towards a full blown RTS. This current frustration mirrors my RTS experiences all the way back to Warcraft 2, when easy AI 1on1 was too hard for me, and my buddy who I played with would carry me against the AI since I was no challenge.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, October 16, 2009, 11:34:01 PM
what does your army consist of? Because once you get your stage upgraded to get the better units, you shouldnt be spending on the little brutes anymore, you need to get the bigger stuff out.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Friday, October 16, 2009, 11:40:02 PM
I guess I need to lay off the basic units. I go get some of the high end stuff, but not a lot. I guess I'm thinking that since stuff dies near instantly, its easier to replace them cheaply if I just grab the basic stuff (which I usually have upgraded).

I've been thinking like this: if I've got melee units already, AND I can upgrade them to make them better, would the developers REALLY intend for me to just stop using them in favor of another melee unit? What about the Headbangers I already have on the battlefield? Am I supposed to just suicide them to make room for better stuff? It feels like that would be a bad design choice so I assume the intent is that all the units remain viable.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 12:13:05 AM
Well when Im playing multiplayer Im usually always pushing somewhere with my dudes, so they are either pushing to take more of the battlefield, or they are dying, hopefully when they do die, I have something better to replace them with. Thats pretty much the way the game paces, theres no research branching as the game is simplified in that way, your just upgrading your stage so your army becomes more powerful than theres, hopefully quicker than there's does. The better units, at least with Ironheade's units, have a good amount of anti-infantry, once you can make those, you need to combine the anti infantry with anti vehicle. So yea, if you let your brutes sit around too long taking up your army space, you should get ride of them in favor of the better stuff if its available.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 12:24:39 AM
I Just failed again rofl. This time I quickly moved to 2 ranged vehicles, 2 healers (upgraded), a Rock Crusher, and big fist dudes for melee, with 1-2 fire breathers for crowds. It seemed to work at first, but now I'm down to 1 Merch Booth and litterally being spawn camped. Eddie resurrects and the stage and instantly dies before I can take flight and get away. Can't build units, can't move, can't do anything.

Oh and up until now I haven't been using the Deuce in stage battles at all. That's what helped me most this time around. I sat back in the car and shot the enemy vehicles.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 12:36:27 AM
Man I dont remember them throwing that much at me when I did it. I know once I took her vehicle down it was easy from there and I had roadies amongst others to help me do it. I think I may replay that part if I can figure out how to keep my current save without overwritting when loading one of the chapters. I dont like how this game doesnt have save slots.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 12:47:16 AM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 12:55:05 AM
ROFL okay I finally did it.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 01:05:53 AM
Haha yea, I played through it again and thats what I did, glad you made it.

Heres advice for the next part in case you have trouble:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 01:19:04 AM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 02:09:45 AM
So yea... I realized why you were having more of a difficult time than I was, my game was on the easiest setting apparently even though I swear by anything that I played it on normal.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 02:13:18 AM
I just finished it. Aside from the major frustration until I figured out how to do that one fight, I loved the game. I finished with 11 hours 44 minutes played, at 78% complete. To me that doesn't seem too short at all. now to go through and find the rest of the collectibles.

I'm wondering, if I go to last checkpoint and manage to finish it on brutal difficulty, will that give me the achievement for finishing the game on brutal? how were you able to go back and play it again? It's telling me it's gonna overwrite my save game.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 02:24:28 AM
I had a memory unit, I just copied my save to that and played it off there. And I dont think you can select the difficulty when selecting a chapter can you?
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 03:03:54 AM
Bah, I don't have a memory unit.

When you pause the game, you can go to options and change the difficulty. Actually, unless they had enough forethought to prevent it, you could probably wait until the last possible second and change it to brutal and get the achievement.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 05:39:11 AM
Without a 2nd storage device, the way to replay the game without losing your current save is to play it under a different profile.  I have created several just for that purpose.  The downside of that is that your main profile won't get any new achievements you get in the replay.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Saturday, October 17, 2009, 03:06:13 PM
I decided I'll work on a 100% complete and then start again afterward and overwrite my save. Maybe the first thing I'll do it attempt that last part on brutal to see if it gives me the achievement. Then I'll start a new game just to play it again. Not that I necessarily want to 100% the game twice, but collecting stuff early on the next playthrough would be interesting to give me more stuff.

For example I just found a solo that calls forth a burning zeppelin that falls from the sky. I can't use it for the story because the story is over. I'm actually really wishing I could do a new game+ that would retain all my upgrades. Of course I think it's impossible to find everything before beating the game. All the way to the end, there's collectibles that are in an area where you're fighting, but only after you finish the story section in that environment. Like I think I found a ball-gagged dragon statue on the path to Killmaster's place, but it wasn't there as I fought my way up there.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, October 23, 2009, 12:49:05 AM
So yea... I don't get this commerical (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVo98qkUoTc), is that song supposed to be ironic or was some idiot in charge of advertising responsible for this?
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Friday, October 23, 2009, 01:14:51 AM
So yea... I don't get this commerical (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVo98qkUoTc), is that song supposed to be ironic or was some idiot in charge of advertising responsible for this?

I don't know but it's fucking horrible. They should have stuck with the 3 Inches of Blood song they used in some of the other stuff.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 10:47:51 AM
First DLC incoming (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/27/first-brutal-legend-dlc-dated-nov-3-initially-free-on-ps3/)

Two maps coming Nov 3rd on 360, and Nov 5th for PS3. Interestingly, for the first two weeks the PS3 one will be free. Otherwise its $5.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 02:10:08 PM
Bah, it's multiplayer maps. I was really hoping they'd do some DLC, but I'm really not that interested in the multiplayer. I haven't taken it online once yet.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 09:35:07 PM
Free I'll take whether I need it or not.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 07:03:46 PM
Eurogamer has a 6-page interview w/ Tim Schafer.
Oh, and he takes shots at Activsion and Bobby Kotick (from page 3 and on), too. (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/double-fines-tim-schafer-develop-interview)

EDIT:
Activision's response to what Schafer said. (http://kotaku.com/5587332/activision-responds-to-accusations-that-its-ceo-is-a-total-prick)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, February 02, 2013, 12:05:33 PM
Interesting.
Brutal Legend (PC) has been added to the Steam registry. (http://cdr.thebronasium.com/sub/19259)

EDIT:
New Double Fine 2013 Steam Bundle listed on the Steam registry, too. (http://cdr.thebronasium.com/cdr/11576)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, February 14, 2013, 12:53:50 PM
Brutal Legend (http://store.steampowered.com/app/225260/) officially on the Steam store!
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Thursday, February 14, 2013, 12:56:20 PM
Brutal Legend (http://store.steampowered.com/app/225260/) officially on the Steam store!

Maybe we''ll get a user mod that removes all the RTS parts ;D
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, February 14, 2013, 12:58:54 PM
Maybe we''ll get a user mod that removes all the RTS parts ;D
Oh God I hope so! That was the main frustration in the game for me on the PS3. It wasn't special.. It just felt like that weird game Sacrifice.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, February 14, 2013, 04:59:10 PM
Sacrifice was a masterpiece. Brutal Legend was... not.
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: W7RE on Thursday, February 14, 2013, 05:05:27 PM
I remember everyone talking about how the whole game was really bad. I loved all of it though... except the RTS parts. I thought the melee combat was a bit simple, but fun. I didn't mind all the driving around, partially because of the metal on the radio, a lot of which I wasn't that familiar with. (some bands I knew, but most songs I didn't)

Do I still need to tag spoilers for a game this old? eh, why not:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, February 15, 2013, 12:30:33 PM
I found the plot turn annoying with all the emo people. It lost me there, though I played and enjoyed most of it up until that point. The RTS stuff wasn't quite what it should have been, and the theme made it seem extra goofy, but it was fun otherwise. Really the main issue was the fact that it should never have started to take itself seriously. Had the game just tried to be all fun and funny and homage, it would have worked. As a story it was just too ridiculous to take seriously, yet it expected you to. I couldn't, thus had to stop playing.