Overwritten.net
Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: Pugnate on Monday, December 15, 2008, 11:56:00 AM
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http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/siliconalley/personal-tech/2008_12_sonys_ps3_a_sinking_ship_sales_plummet_sne.html
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I saw that before, I think on Joystiq. Did you see the story on the sidebar? FCC blames college dropout rate on WoW (http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/12/fcc-blames-college-dropout-rate-on-world-of-warcraft-addiction).
I really hope Sony does whatever it takes to keep the PS3 alive. Without competition, everybody loses.
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Yeah. I don't see the PS3 as a waste, but it's pretty easy to see that the 360 exceeds in so many ways that the PS3 does not.
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Isn't that what happened with the PS2? Until later when the devs got the hang of developing for it then it had a flood of titles.
The X360 is by far better when it comes to its current game library. That's about it really. I think the PS3 has yet to be tapped.
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Isn't that what happened with the PS2? Until later when the devs got the hang of developing for it then it had a flood of titles.
The X360 is by far better when it comes to its current game library. That's about it really. I think the PS3 has yet to be tapped.
Superior online framework
price
more functional OS (why i still can't private chat with someone in-game on PS3 is baffling to me)
360 doesn't have home.
And the PS2's drought was nothing like this.
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Also, by the time the Xbox and Gamecube came, The PS2 was ruling the roost.
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True, the PS2 had a headstart.
The network issues with the PS3 can be a bitch at times. They need to work out a lot of the options, which I'm confident will come in a system update.
I'm keeping optimistic about the PS3 anyway.
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I'm trying to stay positive too. However, the release of Home, and the realization that the countless delays and years of work has culminated in that steaming pile of shit certainly isn't to their credit.
It sucks too, because the system is capable of so much
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I am not. I want a cheap Blu-Ray player damnit!
Honestly, a couple of years ago, I had expected the PS3 to have really come into its own with the release of games like MGS4 and GTA4. Unfortunately for Sony, GTA wasn't an exclusive for them.
We still have some heavy hitters in the form of Final Fantasy and God of War coming, so that should help.
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That's the major bummer here. There's so much potential that's just going to waste.
I have yet to actually log into Home since I keep getting a server error.
And I believe Final Fantasy XIII is coming to both PS3 and X360.
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PS3 first; Xbox360 at a later date.
Home is... meh.
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http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=13677
Xbox 360 Sales Double PS3 Sales as Sony Remains Blind to Reality
I find such headlines a little ridiculous though. It isn't like Sony can do anything to cut prices... unless they can make a PS3 version that is stripped of Blu-Ray and the HD, and sell it for $200. Even then it would be impossible to compete. Also, don't some of their games force an install? I can imagine that makes them selling a HD less version impossible. I am sure Sony realizes that the price is too high, but it isn't like they can do much about it.
No I think they are banking on the Blu-Ray to carry them home in a couple of years.
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I don't know about North America or Europe but here in the Middle East we have three versions of the PS3: Jap, Euro, and US.
The core differences for the 80GB editions are as follows:
Jap: Only 2 USB slots and no media card slots. Lowest price, approx. $400 USD.
Euro: 4 USB slots, full media card slots. Approx. $450 USD.
US: 4 USB slots, full media card slots, requires power adapter. Approx. $500 USD.
Needless to say the Jap and US editions are not doing very well. Even though I got a Jap edition because I had no diea there was a difference and the salesman told there was no difference between the Jap and Euro.
Not much of a variety and the only special offers that can be made are game bundles.
Btw, I just discovered that the X360 doesn't have WiFi.. Is that for all of them or does the Elite at least have it?
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http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=13677
No I think they are banking on the Blu-Ray to carry them home in a couple of years.
The only problem with that is the fact that blu-ray players are dropping in price. Some are even at the 150 dollar mark. At that point buying a PS3 for a blu-ray player starts to make a lot less sense
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No 360 has wifi. Only way to get it is with a 100 dollar adapter
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So, uh....should I not buy a PS3? Because I don't want to buy a 360 that's going to blow up and the Wii is ...well, I got over it fast after having one for a while (although I'll probably buy another one especially for GC games once Nintendo drops the ridiculous price).
Home looks like total garbage. I looked it up after reading PA on the weekend and eventually came across this: . The point of the video is that Home is better than Xbox live in all sorts of way, but all it does is convince me of otherwise. Creepy Second Life avatars? No thanks. Awkward 'real world' simulation to replace menus? Are you fucking kidding me? I don't want to socialize with other retards on PS3s any more than I have to...it shouldn't be this complicated.
As for the PS3 dropping in price, I'd personally like that, but yeah Sony is in a tough spot. While the Wii is overpriced as far as I'm concerned, a lot of people don't see it that way, and the $199 Arcade 360 is a steal. They're going to have to drop prices, but they can't really fuck with the hardware too much. I think their main saving grace is that they can recoup a lot of their R&D cost on licencing the Cell technology for shit like video upscaling processors in televisions and future investment in Blue Ray saturation.
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If I were starting from a clean slate and had to pick one console to buy you'd better believe it would be a 360, even with the hardware issues.
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I'm extremely happy with my PS3. The library is starting to pick up and there are plenty of good games on it. I should mention that I don't / can't go online with it.
Why anyone would invest in the 360, knowing that it will most likely fail on them, is beyond me. When the decision is based on software (which can change) as opposed to hardware (which won't change), I think that the choice is obvious.
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Even with my unfortunate X360 experiences, I am still hesitant on getting a PS3. At one point I was sure I was getting one, it came down to a few days then money got tight and I had to back down from it. Im kinda glad it happened because I probably still wouldnt have touched it to this day but to play MGS4. However my older brother now has one and hes willing to let me borrow it so I can play it, and thats really all I want it for. Gears, Bioshock, Mass Effect, and Halo totally trump the PS3 in terms of its library.
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Primary reason I purchased a PS3: blu-ray.
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Bioshock is on the PS3 as well. But yeah, the 360 library is undeniably better. But the PS3 library is starting to catch up.
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Not when it was released was it? Which didnt help PS3 much again either.
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Nope. And they didn't even really add anything when they re-released it.
Anyways, I think it's funny that the only people in the thread who are dissatisfied with the PS3 are those without one.
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Well for me I wouldnt say I was dissatified, Im not qualified to make that judgement. But 450$ for a weekend of fun... I can get a really nice hooker for that... and maybe even some blow.
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But 450$ for a weekend of fun
You really need to drop that habit of destroying things after one weekend. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
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I'll join Ghandi in PS3 support. I know K-Man and Pyro are on the other end of the spectrum, but my own preferences dictate a very different situation.
My 360 has collected dust ever since I got a PS3. Superior online framework? I have to pay money to play multiplayer games on 360 when I can play my PS3 games online for free. Oh, and my 360 doesn't even go online because I'd have to blow money on a fucking dongle just to get wireless access, which my PS3 has for free. My 360 also doesn't have a hard drive. Admittedly that's my own fault for being stupid enough to buy one of the lesser models, but if I want to upgrade to a bigger drive on the PS3, I don't have to pay far more than the storage is actually worth, I can go buy a laptop drive at a reasonable price, install it, and be done with it. Not so much with the 360, which botched its own interface ideas so badly they had to start giving people deals on storage just so they could install the fucking updates. Plus I don't have to worry about my PS3 exploding for no apparent reason, and while I have several 360 games that have refused to work or have had crashing issues, my PS3 hasn't so much as hiccuped. I'd mention the free software that lets me copy movies and junk to my PS3, but there might be a 360 equivalent of that. I really don't know since I don't have $100 to blow on the privilege.
Yes, Home sort of sucks. And yes, there's still some work to be done with PSN, etc. I'm totally a convert regardless. The 360 has a bigger library, but I don't think the quality argument will remain valid for long. Can you live without Gears of War and Fable 2? Then get a PS3. All things being equal (which they really aren't depending on your disgust with having to pay for shit you shouldn't have to), at least you know it won't melt. A guy I know at work is on his fifth 360 right now. It just came in the mail 2 weeks ago, having died right before he could start playing Fallout 3.
EDIT - Oh, and one of my consoles has an HDMI port. The other doesn't. Can you guess which is which?
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You really need to drop that habit of destroying things after one weekend. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
But breaking expensive electronics is soo satisfying.
But no, MGS4 wont last me much longer than a weekend is what I was eluding to.
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You won't last much longer than a weekend, if you get what I'm eluding to.
Also, Que pretty much sums up what I would have said if I didn't know that he would come on here and say it. If you know what I mean.
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So, uh....should I not buy a PS3? Because I don't want to buy a 360 that's going to blow up and the Wii is ...well, I got over it fast after having one for a while (although I'll probably buy another one especially for GC games once Nintendo drops the ridiculous price).
Home looks like total garbage. I looked it up after reading PA on the weekend and eventually came across this: . The point of the video is that Home is better than Xbox live in all sorts of way, but all it does is convince me of otherwise. Creepy Second Life avatars? No thanks. Awkward 'real world' simulation to replace menus? Are you fucking kidding me? I don't want to socialize with other retards on PS3s any more than I have to...it shouldn't be this complicated.
As for the PS3 dropping in price, I'd personally like that, but yeah Sony is in a tough spot. While the Wii is overpriced as far as I'm concerned, a lot of people don't see it that way, and the $199 Arcade 360 is a steal. They're going to have to drop prices, but they can't really fuck with the hardware too much. I think their main saving grace is that they can recoup a lot of their R&D cost on licencing the Cell technology for shit like video upscaling processors in televisions and future investment in Blue Ray saturation.
Now that the 65-nm all around Jasper is real and identifiable (http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3472&p=2), the RRoD risk on new 360s should be on its way out (I hope). You know they're going to get it right eventually. (Sorry, Ghandi. I disagree that software is the only thing that changes.) So if you want one right now except for that fear, grab a magnifying glass and a flashlight and head for a store willing to accommodate your prying fingers. ;)
A console that sells 2.04 million units in one month, 2 years after it came out, can't possibly be overpriced. It's worth what people will pay for it. They're paying for it in droves. Cost of manufacture is irrelevant. The other side of that truth is biting Sony in the ass, hard. When I learned of projected introductory prices for the current gen of consoles, I said (right here) that the hard line is drawn at $300. You go above that, and you're not going to get complete market penetration. Period--it ain't happening, regardless of how many virtues get packed into the box. As much as we may hate it (and I do too) Microsoft is doing it the right way. By the time you get done buying everything you need piecemeal, you end up paying as much or more than a fully ready PS3. That arcade unit may be $200, but then you're really going to want the hard drive, and the WiFi, and maybe the headset, and so on. All accessories are gouge-priced. But by then, you're hooked. It works! It gets the sales numbers, and recoups the cost of selling the console below cost. Then they get the userbase to make a killing on software licensing, and they get that much more financial power to upgrade the system's infrastructure.
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(Sorry, Ghandi. I disagree that software is the only thing that changes.)
In the short term, I meant. Obviously anything is possible in the long term. Given their track record on the system, though, I hope they fixed the problem. Because I'm certainly not buying their next-gen system right away, given their current record. You can argue price all you want, but I'd pay a little extra any day of the week not to have to deal with the bullshit that a good deal of the people on these boards had to go through.
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Oh yeah. No doubt. I had to go through that pain once too, and that Anandtech article let me id the replacement console I got back from MS as another Xenon/Zephyr 90-nm heat-warping monster. So chances are I'm going through the same shit again at some point.
But we're talking about mass-market sales, specifically how they're not happening as we'd hope for Sony. We may be better informed and know all this stuff. The average consumers that make consoles viable are less informed, or don't care.
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2 years after it came out, can't possibly be overpriced. It's worth what people will pay for it.
Not that you're wrong and I see what you're saying, but from my perspective it's overpriced because it's not worth what people are willing to pay for it. I'm not saying it's overpriced to do well, I'm saying it's over priced for the utility it would provide me when realistically a $30 used gamecube would do the trick until they have that whole "shake to jump instead of pressing A!" thing hammered out.
As for the 360, is the library really all that great for someone who already has a gaming PC? I've been looking at Sony simply because they seem to get the games that don't hit the PC more.
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It's overpriced for you. Yeah, I do understand that. I should have rented one with SMG and Metroid' 3, and called it a week. I use it as a (very good) Gamecube because I have it. I would have never bought it just for that. Some Gamecubes do support component cables and progressive display on HDTVs, but not all. One of those for "$30" would be a nice find.
I have . . . 24 X360 games, out of which I'm really glad I bought 14 of them. (Just scanned through the shelf.) Out of those, 8 absolutely need a 360. Hope that helps.
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Interesting. Realistically, I'll look at the release list for both consoles before I make a final choice. Although, Sega's Valkyria Chronicles has at least partially sold me.
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Actually, you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to find the better 360s. It quite clearly says on the back of the box what your 360's adapter voltage is. If it is 170/160, then you've got one of the newer 360s.
edit:
It has to be said, that there is very little reason to get both consoles, unless one is a piece of RROD'ing shit.
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I'll join Ghandi in PS3 support. I know K-Man and Pyro are on the other end of the spectrum, but my own preferences dictate a very different situation.
My 360 has collected dust ever since I got a PS3. Superior online framework?
Yes, 360's online framework is vastly superior to the PS3's. There's no comparison. Everything's centralized, running on stable servers, and everything's easy to access. I've had issues more times than not when taking my PS3 online.
Yes, Home sort of sucks.
No, Home is an absolute abomination. Sony should be ashamed of the fact that it took this long to release something that terrible. Everything about the idea was horribly conceived and implemented.
EDIT - Oh, and one of my consoles has an HDMI port. The other doesn't. Can you guess which is which?
I bet you if you put an identical game on my 360 with the Component inputs and my PS3 with the HDMI input, you would not be able to tell a difference at all (console differences aside, that is). I do see your point, and it's something Microsoft should have had from the beginning.
That being said, I've preordered SF IV and a tournament stick for the PS3. I'm still playing my PS3. But it's not hard to see that the 360 offers the better overall experience. Even with the hardware issues (which as Cobra said should be on their way out).
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X360 has HDMI ports standard to the console now. Our older generations are the consoles that don't have an HDMI port built in (boo hoo). It's not a big loss. Component is capable of outputting a 1080p signal, so you can still get the full HD experience on component if you're using your Xbox for video games (even though most games are upscaled from 720p to 1080p if you do). Only caveat is that video is limited to 720p and 1080i over component due to HDCP regulations. No impact unless you have the now defunct HD-DVD add on.
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Yea my 360 has an HDMI, even though it is isn't the black one. It is the falcon chip one though.
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My point isn't that HDMI matters, it's just the general process that went into the PS3. The 360 was in many respects broken, limited, and costly. It's now getting better. The PS3 always had a higher price point, but it was a complete machine from the start, and the only thing it's lost is backward compatibility. That last is a downer, but as far as I'm concerned it's still far and away the better machine for all the reasons I've already stated.
I have 13 360 games and 10 PS3 games even though I've owned the PS3 for about a quarter of the time I've had my 360. Also, all my PS3 games work, where a few of my 360 games are broken to the point of unplayability. That isn't the console's fault, necessarily, but they're both Microsoft games, which maybe says something. I'm also not really looking forward to anything on the 360 in particular, whereas there are several PS3 games I'm eager for. I don't have the money any longer to buy all the big-name titles that come out (like I said, Gears 2 and Fable 2 just don't merit purchase for me at this point), and while the 360 gets a lot of mass-market stuff and you're guaranteed to get all the big names, PS3 looks like it may shape up to be the better machine for more niche games that don't have direct equivalents on other consoles. That's a total generalization, but it's the way things are looking from my perspective.
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My point isn't that HDMI matters, it's just the general process that went into the PS3. The 360 was in many respects broken, limited, and costly. It's now getting better. The PS3 always had a higher price point, but it was a complete machine from the start, and the only thing it's lost is backward compatibility. That last is a downer, but as far as I'm concerned it's still far and away the better machine for all the reasons I've already stated.
Technically it's a vastly superior machine. Sony worked very hard to attempt to make it as futureproof as possible. However, when your game library consists of maybe 8 exclusives worth playing (3-4 of those really worth owning) you start to run into some problems. Concessions were made to lower the 360 price to get it to market. Sony took the other tactic and left these features in at a premium. Ultimately people are going to go where the games are. The Xbox and Gamecube were both superior to the PS2, yet the PS2 sold in droves because the games were there.
I have 13 360 games and 10 PS3 games even though I've owned the PS3 for about a quarter of the time I've had my 360. Also, all my PS3 games work, where a few of my 360 games are broken to the point of unplayability. That isn't the console's fault, necessarily, but they're both Microsoft games, which maybe says something. I'm also not really looking forward to anything on the 360 in particular, whereas there are several PS3 games I'm eager for. I don't have the money any longer to buy all the big-name titles that come out (like I said, Gears 2 and Fable 2 just don't merit purchase for me at this point), and while the 360 gets a lot of mass-market stuff and you're guaranteed to get all the big names, PS3 looks like it may shape up to be the better machine for more niche games that don't have direct equivalents on other consoles. That's a total generalization, but it's the way things are looking from my perspective.
I'm curious to know what 360 games are broken for you. Because I've never had a problem with any of mine. And your preference is your preference, and I'm certainly not going to argue that. However, you must realize that you are in the minority.
I do have to agree with you on the niche games on PS3. Games like Folklore are beautiful and unique, and the store has offerings like Everyday Shooter and Pixel Junk Eden. I'd even argue that while the XBLA has a greater quantity of games, the ones of PS3 are of greater quality (and adventurous).
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the PS3 is a terrible system at all. I merely think it has been horribly misused and mismanaged by Sony. They're having an identity crisis with their console. Last night on Monday Night Football, they aired a commercial that called it a "movie downloading machine". not a video game system, a blu ray player, but a movie downloading machine. The 360's emphasis and focus has always been games first, and that's ultimately why I think it's succeeding.
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Ultimately, I think its one year lead paid off. It was enough for them to sell better despite the RRODs. I guess those suits do know what they are doing sometimes. That, and the optional harddrive made a lot of business sense.
I read somewhere that the Arcade 360s made MS a lot of money, and that the harddrive itself gained MS nothing monetarily. And MS not banking on a mandatory HD-DVD drive was a good move as well. Look at the fact that Sony actually won the format war, yet so far have benefited little. Apparently the vast majority of movies are still being sold on DVDs, with focus group members stating they can't see the benefits of Blu-Ray on LCDs smaller than 50''.
Anyway, I still say the differences between the two consoles aren't massive, what with so few exclusives so far this gen. I still want the PS3 for the Blu-ray though.
As for performance, I've read on numerous gamespot articles that the PS3 versions of cross platform titles seem to have the most issues. Two games I can think of are The Orange Box, and GTA4.
One thing is for sure. The next generation of consoles are going to be a lot more conservative. According to articles I've read, that quoted analysts and insiders, both Sony and MS agree that they went overboard in trying to outdo each other and suffered in their own ways.
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One thing is for sure. The next generation of consoles are going to be a lot more conservative. According to articles I've read, that quoted analysts and insiders, both Sony and MS agree that they went overboard in trying to outdo each other and suffered in their own ways.
Translation: We saw Nintendo do jack shit and make billions. We gotta get into that business.
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I don't disagree, K. I hope you don't mistake my tone... I know I can sound like I'm attacking people when I get like this. What I'm attacking is the automatic assumption *most* people have that the 360 is just plain the system you buy, why even consider a PS3? That may be true for some folks, but I think there are a number of reasons the PS3 may well be the system of choice for some, even those who may only own a single console. Most of the cross platform stuff is fine, barring a few earlier titles where developers didn't know what they were doing, and the exclusives are okay. Maybe not astounding, but in an era with this many games, how much does that even matter? Gears 2 certainly isn't going to sway me to the 360 side. That's a game that is amazingly unimportant, no matter how much it grosses, much like Halo. I'm not saying it's a lousy game, I'm just saying as a gamer who's shot about 9 trillion aliens in my lifetime, how much do I really care? Valkyria Chronicles, on the other hand, is very different from most of the games I play. And I'm seeing more potential for games like that on PS3 in the future. With limited money to spend, my hopes are resting more on that machine for future games because I need the games I buy to be something beyond average most of the time, now, or I can't even justify the expense. I know there are good exclusives on 360 too, but I have higher hopes for those hitting the PS3.
As for games my 360 doesn't like... the two biggest are Viva Pinata and VP2. The 2nd one is unplayable, and unfortunately I haven't been able to determine if it's my 360 or the game because I don't know anyone with a 360 that I can test it on. Eternal Sonata has crashed on startup a number of times, and I had some trouble with The Darkness crashing several times. Granted, this may all be my machine and not the games... but what difference does that make to me? Lots of other people had the same problems with the other games, so VP2 is the only one I seem to be alone on. Unfortunately, since my wife and I almost never use the 360 anymore since getting the PS3, there hasn't been anything I've wanted to play on it to test it further, and I don't have the time to sit around arbitrarily testing games for hours just to see if they maybe crash.
And Sy speaks the truth. I was a really big fan of Nintendo for a long time, but they've completely let me down, and I'm very afraid of what the next generation could look like if more people try to jump on that bandwagon. We could be in for thin years indeed.
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I just read this on Megagames about the X360.. I did not know about this:
Microsoft Knew About Xbox 360 Disc Scratching Before Launch
Microsoft is currently facing several lawsuits claiming that Xbox 360's DVD drive causes damage and scratches to inserted discs when moved. The company's position got weaker today as court documents revealed that it already knew about the problem well before the console's launch.
"When we first discovered the problem in September or October (2005), when we got a first report of disc movement, we knew this is what's causing the problem," Microsoft program manager Hiroo Umeno told the court. Xbox 360 was released a month or 2 later, in November 2008.
Microsoft's testing revealed that when the console is tilted, discs inside become "unchucked" and collide with the drive's pickup unit, causing damage and scratches.
Microsoft's engineers considered three solutions. The first solution was decreasing the drive's reading speed, but it was refused because it would increase game loading time. The second solution was also dismissed because it interfered with the drive's opening and closing mechanism. The third solution, installing small bumpers, was technically alright, but it was too expensive. It would have cost between $35 million and $75 million, and thus it was refused.
Instead, Microsoft opted to adding the following section the product's manual: "Remove discs before moving the console or tilting it between the horizontal and vertical positions." Another warning was also affixed to the Xbox 360's disc drive later.
Microsoft also initiated an Xbox 360 disc replacement program that sends out new discs to customers if their discs are damaged for any reason. The program only applies to Microsoft titles and costs $20 per disc.
An internal Microsoft email, quoted in court, revealed that Microsoft's employee considered those actions to be insufficient.
It seems the more I look into the 360 the more problems I find, serious problems.
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This just means they can get sued more successfully for their shenanigans, and I welcome that. The problem itself has long been known, and assuming you know not to move the console while the disc is spinning, you will either have the problem from the first day, or you won't have it at all. I don't have it at all, with this console or the one it replaced. The real problem (as opposed to user error) is fairly rare, and the best suggestion I've read is to test the drive with a cheap DVD-R backup of something when you first set up the unit. No scratches? You're good for the duration.
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I don't disagree, K. I hope you don't mistake my tone... I know I can sound like I'm attacking people when I get like this. What I'm attacking is the automatic assumption *most* people have that the 360 is just plain the system you buy, why even consider a PS3? That may be true for some folks, but I think there are a number of reasons the PS3 may well be the system of choice for some, even those who may only own a single console. Most of the cross platform stuff is fine, barring a few earlier titles where developers didn't know what they were doing, and the exclusives are okay. Maybe not astounding, but in an era with this many games, how much does that even matter? Gears 2 certainly isn't going to sway me to the 360 side. That's a game that is amazingly unimportant, no matter how much it grosses, much like Halo. I'm not saying it's a lousy game, I'm just saying as a gamer who's shot about 9 trillion aliens in my lifetime, how much do I really care? Valkyria Chronicles, on the other hand, is very different from most of the games I play. And I'm seeing more potential for games like that on PS3 in the future. With limited money to spend, my hopes are resting more on that machine for future games because I need the games I buy to be something beyond average most of the time, now, or I can't even justify the expense. I know there are good exclusives on 360 too, but I have higher hopes for those hitting the PS3.
As for games my 360 doesn't like... the two biggest are Viva Pinata and VP2. The 2nd one is unplayable, and unfortunately I haven't been able to determine if it's my 360 or the game because I don't know anyone with a 360 that I can test it on. Eternal Sonata has crashed on startup a number of times, and I had some trouble with The Darkness crashing several times. Granted, this may all be my machine and not the games... but what difference does that make to me? Lots of other people had the same problems with the other games, so VP2 is the only one I seem to be alone on. Unfortunately, since my wife and I almost never use the 360 anymore since getting the PS3, there hasn't been anything I've wanted to play on it to test it further, and I don't have the time to sit around arbitrarily testing games for hours just to see if they maybe crash.
And Sy speaks the truth. I was a really big fan of Nintendo for a long time, but they've completely let me down, and I'm very afraid of what the next generation could look like if more people try to jump on that bandwagon. We could be in for thin years indeed.
Why does it bother you that most people assume that the 360 is the system to buy? What confuses me is that you care so much. You know you represent a small percentage of gamers that prefer the PS3 and know the reason most flock to the 360. Yet you still seem to scorn those that choose to pick Microsoft.
Recently I just feel these boards continue towards a trend of utter disgust for the gaming industry. Darker days are always on the horizon if not upon us now seems to be the outlook. As the market continues to move more and more console centric we all moan and bitch about paying for DLC, then on the PC side its nothing but DRM bitching, bitch about games being too short, bitch about devs bitching about the market change. Some of us still fabricate glory days like they dont exist anymore. Its odd because we seem so stuck in this PC gaming facade yet we all own most consoles but dont realize it. There were alot of bad ideas we used to bitch about that never came to fruition. Episodic content never really worked, but its seemingly turning out well for small dev teams for outlets like XBLA. As Im understanding it right now, Guitar Hero and Rock Band are breaking even, swaying from the accessory craze that seemed to be blooming. DLC is still working out its problems, but I think whats helping this the most and what most of us are failing to comprehend is that gamers arent as stupid as we like to keep pointing out. Ultimately they will pay what they think is worth paying for, and a lot of DLC bullshit has been subverted. Nintendo seems to be my concern, but I honestly think that gimmicks and shovelware wont last them forever.
I just wanted to remind everyone that we arent the only ones with brains amongst the consumer mass, and what doom you may think will blanket the industry forever is just a perception we may choose to keep living under.
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Well, I think scorn may be a wee bit of a strong word here. I actually have felt Que's scorn a few times (Splinter Cell, Halo 1, Global Warming haha just kidding), but I think he is just trying to express why he finds the PS3 to be the piece of puzzle that fits perfectly for him.
I actually love my Falcon chipped 360. But that's because I know it isn't likely to RROD, is stock equipped with the HDMI, the nice HD drive etc. I can imagine that if I was worried about my 360 crapping out any second, I'd be pretty disenchanted with it. And if you compare the original 360 with the original PS3, you can see that the PS3 did a lot more things right, straight out of the box. It didn't need as much "accessorizing". I am thankful that my falcon 360 is a more polished piece of hardware than its earlier iteration.
Speaking of things just "feeling right", I can liken it to my experience of changing from being an avid ATi user to an Nvidia user. Having owned flagship ATi products, I was never truly comfortable with all of them. In between the inconsistent drivers and the overheating, even the best ATi products never felt as "right" as my 8800GTX does. Even today, I would choose a more expensive and slightly slower Nvidia product, if I had to.
But back to the 360. I just want to say that even though the PS3's online service is free, Xbox live does blow it away, from what I tried at a friend's place with L4D. I realize a lot of people like Que don't care for Xbox Live, nor do they really care about blockbusters like GoW 2, but to most people that stuff is important, and that's why the 360 sells more. Also, while the PS3 feels like a more complete piece of hardware, the optional upgrades on the 360 allow MS to sell cheaper "core/arcade" packages, that make the system more enticing for the average joe.
I know there are good exclusives on 360 too, but I have higher hopes for those hitting the PS3.
Can you tell me of any upcoming titles that I can look forward to on the PS3? I am interested because I need an excuse to watch TDK on Blu-Ray.
Technically it's a vastly superior machine. Sony worked very hard to attempt to make it as futureproof as possible. However, when your game library consists of maybe 8 exclusives worth playing (3-4 of those really worth owning) you start to run into some problems. Concessions were made to lower the 360 price to get it to market. Sony took the other tactic and left these features in at a premium. Ultimately people are going to go where the games are. The Xbox and Gamecube were both superior to the PS2, yet the PS2 sold in droves because the games were there.
Excellent post, that covers my sentiments on the subject as well.
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Translation: We saw Nintendo do jack shit and make billions. We gotta get into that business.
I can't agree with that statement. Sure, the Wii has lesser graphical horsepower, but I'm sure Nintendo spent a pretty penny on R&D for the motion controls.
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I just read this on Megagames about the X360.. I did not know about this:
Microsoft Knew About Xbox 360 Disc Scratching Before Launch
It seems the more I look into the 360 the more problems I find, serious problems.
This was the same problem the PS2 had. It is because of the gyroscopic forces that are created when the disc spins.
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This was the same problem the PS2 had. It is because of the gyroscopic forces that are created when the disc spins.
Is it a problem inherent in tray or flip-up door drives? As oppose to slip-pockets like PS3 and Macs.
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I can't agree with that statement. Sure, the Wii has lesser graphical horsepower, but I'm sure Nintendo spent a pretty penny on R&D for the motion controls.
Oh yeah, they totally did. Metroid Prime proves that the motion controls were great and that the system was still capable of pulling off some great visuals. However, have they done much since the first year? Not really. All they've done this year is make the balance for WiiFit and rereleased Animal Crossing (and maybe Mario Kart if that came out this year). On the outset, it felt they had had some genuine gaming intentions with the system. After a year or two, however, it was like they realized that they didn't need to do that in order to keep generating a massive cash flow and stopped caring altogether.
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Is it a problem inherent in tray or flip-up door drives? As oppose to slip-pockets like PS3 and Macs.
I'm not sure. Basically when the disc is spinning, it wants to keep spinning on the same plane. So as you tilt the console(s), the disc does not remain parallel to the tray and makes contact with the hardware.
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I can't say for sure, but I'd imagine this would mainly be a problem with sliding trays. On flip doors I'd think gravity would work as a placeholder and there wouldn't be the extra variance combined with lack of room to actually allow the disc to hit anything. With a sliding tray, it doesn't actually get locked down most of the time, and with cases like the PS2 it's designed to be able to hold the disc in multiple orientations, which necessitates more of a 'tight indentation' on the tray itself. Also, rental stickers and shit could easily cause this to happen by unbalancing the disc.
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Pyro, your post is remarkably well reasoned. I appreciate it, and you're probably very right in a lot of ways.
However, my thing about the PS3 is that... well, this is a post about the PS3 tanking and Sony taking losses on the PS3, and I think a lot of that is because of the misconception (and yes, I still think it ultimately is a misconception) that the 360 is the better machine. It isn't. In fact, for all the reasons I've already stated, it could be considered much, much worse. The PS3 has some other issues, some of which K-Man has pointed out, but all that does is level the playing field IMO, not give ground to Microsoft. Yet it's this general current of consumers in the sea of the mass market that do nothing but further the idea that the 360 is the console to own, and not based on anything real, just based on the usual ebb and flow of what's popular. And I think that sucks. A sizable portion of the people who would proclaim the 360 to be superior probably don't even buy enough games to take advantage of the bigger library, as they'd probably find just as much to like on the PS3 within their limits.
I just take offense at things that are accepted as fact or nearly so when that isn't the truth. It offends me. Does it matter why? I'm not really pro-Sony. I was very outspoken about my displeasure with them for a long while after the PS3 had been out. And while I'm not at all a fan of Microsoft, I own a lot of Microsoft products and use them, and I generally only complain about them when they explode in my face. In the case of the 360, mine hasn't even outright failed yet, but that by no means negates how completely and utterly bungled the fucking thing was. Have they ironed it all out by now? I guess they've taken strides, but the fact that my coworker just recently had to go in for his fifth unit isn't particularly convincing. The one that just failed wasn't long ago at all, and he hadn't had it very long.
Though I have to say, your general faith in the average gamer isn't something I share. I do agree that our viewpoints might be overly dismal at times, and sometimes we probably take our naysaying a little too far, but I'm sorry, there's a world full of morons out there and they have a lot of money to spend. And that's turned into a lot of sophomoric drivel that's sold by the truckloads. And it really can't be helped. We used to be a small industry full of creativity because there was little risk and not nearly as much money, but now budgets are huge, crowds are huge, and everyone has a shirt to lose. We wanted games to get respect and be treated better, and now that's happened. Unfortunately, the price of acceptance is often popularity. But we shouldn't be so negative, like you say, because for all the bad, it really isn't like the good has decreased. It's probably increased right along with everything else. Maybe the ratios are different, but what does that matter to us? We still have more good games than we could conceivably play in real life without retiring and having endless money to spend. And all the DRM shit will probably find some way to work itself out in the future, for good or ill.
It all goes back to ideology. There are some things that just seem, for lack of a better term, morally wrong. Restrictive DRM goes against what a lot of us feel is proper business conduct (not to mention some of it has wandered into realms of palpably questionable legality). Maybe we do beat the dead horse a little, but nothing good ever comes from rolling over and letting someone have their way with you. A fight's a fight, and as sick to death as I am of talking about DRM, there are times when it bears talking about.
As for Pug: well, there's God of War 3, and that's a poor example being it's pretty much a mass-market muscle-fest. But for some reason I just like those games. The epicness just isn't matched by most others, however bullheaded the concept. White Knight Chronicles still looks like something special and different. Demon's Souls is gorgeous looking, and could be a nice Diablo-style diversion. Flower has tons of potential. Crash Commando has potential too. Bayonetta looks goofy and awesome all at once. Heavy Rain is one I'm eager to see more on, despite how infuriated I was with Quantic Dream after Fahrenheit (or Indigo Prophecy). Infamous sounded interesting. There are a few others I'm forgetting, and there's of course the next project from Team ICO which will likely be a must-buy for me, whatever it is.
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You know why I won't buy a 360 for a long time? Because they break...a lot. I mean, they might have fixed it and I might get the new version, but then again it's not like Microsoft never have problems diagnosing and fixing problems.
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It's a cheap-ass consumer product. It was rushed to market for strategic reasons. (Not like MS was hurting for money at the time and just had to get it out.) It had a serious design flaw and a slew of more minor flaws. They suffered the consequences, as did those of us who bought it. They also reaped the benefits of their bold moves, as did those of us who bought it. They're fixing it for free when it breaks from their big mistake, and they're still revising it to make it cheaper and more reliable. It has the lion's share of the hardcore gamers, and hands down the best online stuff.
Did I miss anything?
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Well we'd better all agree on one system soon. Because we all know what will happen if we don't....
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Did I miss anything?
Dear god there are so many snarky comments I want to post right now.
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It's a cheap-ass consumer product. It was rushed to market for strategic reasons. (Not like MS was hurting for money at the time and just had to get it out.) It had a serious design flaw and a slew of more minor flaws. They suffered the consequences, as did those of us who bought it. They also reaped the benefits of their bold moves, as did those of us who bought it. They're fixing it for free when it breaks from their big mistake, and they're still revising it to make it cheaper and more reliable. It has the lion's share of the hardcore gamers, and hands down the best online stuff.
Did I miss anything?
I..I was just saying why I'm not going to buy one for a long time. Everyone else can feel free to make their own decisions.
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Dear god there are so many snarky comments I want to post right now.
You can't imply your way out of that one. Fire away.
Edit: I'm not defending anything, by the way. It's more like puzzlement about the fanboy-like conversations we've been engaged in lately.
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Oh snap! It is on!!
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No no, you can't encourage me like that. I'm trying to be a better person, and it isn't going so well as I'd like.
Though you're right, it does sort of smack of fanboyism. I wish I could find better ways to say things. It isn't that I'm an Impulse or PS3 fanboy, I just personally prefer both to Steam and the 360, and it bugs me because it's "common knowledge" that the 360 and Steam are the best things ever and omg everything else sucks. And that gets so bloody irritating after a while.
Not to imply that's what's been said here, mind you. But the internet is full of amazingly stupid people, as idol will tell you. He and I see more than our fair share, and that can occasionally get the ire up.
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It's not just you. If it were, there would be no heated debate. We all form opinions based on our experiences. But up to now, we have been above taking personal umbrage (there's my word of the day) at others' conflicting opinions on game hardware. This is something new here (certainly not new on the internet as a whole). What has changed I wonder.
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The only reason that I'm arguing for the PS3 is because I invested $350 into it. And now I feel like I have to stand by my investment.
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I don't have a current console, but really the PS2 and Persona 4 is all anyone needs.
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The only reason that I'm arguing for the PS3 is because I invested $350 into it. And now I feel like I have to stand by my investment.
Yeah, well, I could say the same thing about my console + 24 games investment. I understand that it doesn't feel very good to have your expenditure dismissed as foolish. But we have always been mature here about diversity of opinion in the past. Was it just because we all shared the PC as the main gaming platform, while consoles were merely secondary diversions? That would be depressing.
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Yeah, well, I could say the same thing about my console + 24 games investment. I understand that it doesn't feel very good to have your expenditure dismissed as foolish. But we have always been mature here about diversity of opinion in the past. Was it just because we all shared the PC as the main gaming platform, while consoles were merely secondary diversions? That would be depressing.
Well my (sarcastic) point was that you can't really dismiss either expenditure as foolish. It's not an "us vs them" or a "one vs the other" type of mentality. They can mutually exist. It's OK.
Edit: Clarified
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OK, sarcasm. Too subtle or I'm too obtuse at this hour. Yeah, that's my take on it as well. I thought it was everyone's take. The arguments that fly in the face of it are what I'm puzzled about.
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Us: Fuck you, PS triple 4eva!
Us: No Halo for you!
Cobra: You crazy kids and your games...
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I think Cobra's got the right idea.. Fook this I'm going back into emulation! (Since I don't have my old consoles anymore.. except my Saturn).
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Here's my basic opinion on the ps3 and 360
PS3: Most powerful, most potential, but Sony has dropped the ball
360: Best online framework, less powerful, but Microsoft has definitely made the most of their investment.
Ultimately I want all the consoles to succeed. Nothing good will come of putting anyone out of business. I just think Sony needs to get their head out of their ass and stop thinking that people will buy their product on name recognition alone.
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I'd just like to add that regardless of the merit (or lack of merit) of this thread, the word "umbrage" doesn't get half the regular use it deserves. Unless you read old books that smell funny, like I do. In fact, I think I read it just yesterday when I was reading some Sherlock Holmes.
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Bayonetta looks goofy and awesome all at once.
Que might like this part, since I know he's into music big time.
Bayonetta is going to have a massive soundtrack -- A FIVE CD soundtrack. (http://kotaku.com/5363044/bayonetta-getting-5+disc-cd-soundtrack)
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What the fuck does that have to do with this old, dead thread? It's not related to the subject line. It's not related to the substantive debate for the last page and a half. Why do you do this?
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Getting back on topic. It's amazing how a redesign can create such a frenzy. I think Sony is smart to start marketing this thing as a jack of all trades. I just wish they could pull everything together as well as the 360 has. The feature set is still so disjointed.
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What the fuck does that have to do with this old, dead thread? It's not related to the subject line. It's not related to the substantive debate for the last page and a half. Why do you do this?
I guess I should've created a new thread for Bayonetta then for my little piece of news.
Too late now, I guess...
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Sorry. Lousy mood when I posted that.
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Sorry. Lousy mood when I posted that.
Apology accepted.
Despite your vicious-ness, you're still right though. I still should've started a Bayonetta thread, since we don't have one already and all -- and since I ain't got much to really say on the topic on-hand.
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Getting back on topic. It's amazing how a redesign can create such a frenzy. I think Sony is smart to start marketing this thing as a jack of all trades. I just wish they could pull everything together as well as the 360 has. The feature set is still so disjointed.
Now, if they could only improve their online service. For that to happen though, they have to get new people on board. People experienced with designing operating systems, interfaces etc helps.
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Now, if they could only improve their online service. For that to happen though, they have to get new people on board. People experienced with designing operating systems, interfaces etc helps.
Say what you want about Microsoft's hardware, they've fucking NAILED the software portion of it.
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If you like shitty interfaces and having to pay for services that should be free, yeah. Nailed.
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Say what you want about Microsoft's hardware, they've fucking NAILED the software portion of it.
Yes they did, and it wasn't entirely unexpected. I always felt the PS software was left wanting, and it was one of the things that MS was really good at when they entered the console market.
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Is PS3 still using that Home service thing? There was some great content on how they dropped the ball with that when it came out.
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Say what you want about Microsoft's hardware, they've fucking NAILED the software portion of it.
I agree with you for the most part, but the latest iterations of the OS take a long time to bring up a list of your games. It caught Apple disease--it's doing a gazillion things you didn't ask it to do when all you want is your game list so you can play one.
If you're talking games and capability, yes I agree completely. Good job there.
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I'll agree that I have mixed feelings on the latest OS update. But beyond that, I mean I still don't even have the ability to voice chat with a friend while I'm playing a game? Come on.
I mean the best way I can describe it is that the 360's features work so well with each other, while the PS3's almost seem like separate entities.
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If you like shitty interfaces and having to pay for services that should be free, yeah. Nailed.
I'm sure we've had this discussion before once or twice, but I'll say it again. I'd much rather pay 50 a year for XBL than have to deal with PSN's shortcomings for free.
Although I'd be much happier if XBL were free. But seriously, you can buy 12 months for 30 bucks now depending on where you look. I'll gladly shell out 2.50 a month for a stable online infrastructure.
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The Xbox interface has become extremely bloated. I like the old one with tabs a lot better.
I have no issues with how Sony has implemented their online stuff. Granted, Home is a throwaway, but jumping into a game to start playing works fine.
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There is nothing unstable about Sony's online infrastructure. It's perfectly functional and does everything I need it to do. I don't care if you ask me to pay twenty cents for the 360's bloated garbage, I just don't like it and don't want to pay for it. I don't even like using it for free when I occasionally go on there to browse or whatever. I'm not a Sony fanboy. I think Home is utterly useless, I think the PSN store needs a drastic interface overhaul and needs to provide more info on some of the stuff it sells, and I'm pissed that they threw the PSN icon into every fucking category on the PS3 XMB... but I still prefer it all to the 360.
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I agree with Que on this one.
If you think the North American PSN Store is crap check out the Asian and European ones! I also sometimes wish I was in charge of the PSN Store because I know I can do a much better job with it.
I hope the next XMB update will remove the PSN Store icon from menus where it doesn't belong.
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I hope the next XMB update will remove the PSN Store icon from menus where it doesn't belong.
Agreed.
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The one new icon I they added in v3 that I like is the "What's New" menu item. It lets me know if there's anything new in the PSN Store without having to open it and I like that the menu jumps straight to it when I boot up the PS3.
I kinda wish the PSP v6 update was at least as significant.. All it seemed to do was change "Network Update" to "System Update" then you choose whether you want to update via Internet or storage media (like the PS3). I guess it makes more sense than using the Game menu to install system updates.
Sony ought to know they're doing something wrong when their main competitor is winning people over even though their service is not free. I don't really understand why Sony are not addressing this constructively. Instead they focused so hard on making the new douchebag-inspired PSP Go! (which simultaneously gimped their UMD sales even further). They seem to ignore any negative, yet constructive, criticism about their online presence and services.
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Yeah, it's weird. I hate Microsoft, yet I understand why they do what they do. I don't hate Sony, yet I find them entirely incomprehensible sometimes (and they do piss me off now and again).
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Yeah, it's weird. I hate Microsoft, yet I understand why they do what they do. I don't hate Sony, yet I find them entirely incomprehensible sometimes (and they do piss me off now and again).
Who doesn't piss you off? :P
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That... is a valid question.