June 1, 2009 - Valve, creators of best-selling game franchises (such as Half-Life and Counter-Strike) and leading technologies (such as Steam and Source), today announced Left 4 Dead 2 (L4D2), the sequel to the best-selling and critically-acclaimed co-operative multiplayer thriller.
Coming exclusively to Xbox 360 and PC, L4D2 promises to set a new benchmark for co-operative action games and become one of 2009's marquee titles.
"A large part of how Left 4 Dead became 2008's top-selling new IP on Xbox 360 and the PC was the custom-tailored gameplay made possible by the AI Director," said Gabe Newell, president and co-founder of Valve. "With the knowledge gained from creating the original, new technology, and a passionate team, L4D2 will set a new benchmark for cooperative action games."
Set for release on November 17, the title adds melee combat to enable deeper co-operative gameplay, with items such as a chainsaw, frying pan, axe, baseball bat, and more.
Introducing the AI Director 2.0, L4D's dynamic gameplay is taken to the next level by giving the Director the ability to procedurally change weather effects, world objects, and pathways in addition to tailoring the enemy population, effects, and sounds to match the players' performance. The result is a unique game session custom fitted to provide a satisfying and uniquely challenging experience each time the game is played.
Featuring new Survivors, boss zombies, weapons, and items, Left 4 Dead 2 offers a much larger game than the original with more co-operative campaigns, more Versus campaigns, and maps for Survival mode available at launch.
Supported by a $10+ million marketing campaign, Left 4 Dead has sold over 2.5 million retail copies since it was released in November of 2008. Left 4 Dead 2 is targeted for release on Xbox 360 and the PC on November 17, 2009, and will be launched worldwide with a multi-million dollar marketing campaign across TV, Outdoor, and Online.
"Left 4 Dead was backed by our most aggressive advertising campaign to date, and resulted in a top 5 showing on two platforms during holiday 2008," said Doug Lombardi, VP of marketing at Valve. "Left 4 Dead 2 is a larger game and will be supported with even more consumer and retail advertising programs than the original."
Left 4 Dead 2 will be featured as the cover story on PC Gamer and Official Xbox Magazines this month. For more information, please visit www.l4d.com
According to IGN (I think, not sure where the info came from), Valve might include the L4D maps in L4D2. Which just makes the whole situation even worse.So, why'd people purchase L4D1 then?
RSG has a little preview:I agree w/ this statement.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/01/left-4-dead-2-exclusive-rps-preview/#more-12370
The daylight bits look cool.
Valve says they will continue to support L4D1 with DLC etc, but aren't they going to be dividing the community?
They need to sell this at $20 for owners of the first.Sounds a lil' more fair to me.
Are you kidding? They'll release the "Green Box" that has L4D2 packaged with L4D, and people that already own the original can gift it to friends.LOL, yeah, probably.
I still have extra copies of HL2 and EP1 that no one wants.Same here...
Yeah, I'm so not buying it. Fuck Valve. After this, I am officially done with every product they ever produce from here on out.
Rock Paper Shotgun has a podcast interview with some Valve dude. I haven't listened, but someone wrote notes while listening:
* L4D2 started production immediately after the first was released
* new mutations, southern zombies, New Orleans locale
* takes place shortly after events of L4D
* "Charger" special infected, half tank/regular zombie. Runs at survivors, can grab and smash them about
* more gruesome zombies/deaths, destroyable limbs
* melee weapons like frying pan, axe, baseball bat have different effects
* "uncommmon" common infected: hazmat zombies immune to fire, random mutations throughout
* daytime maps, different types of zombies at night/day
* witch can wander around in random paths, still scary strong
* L4D will still be updated (until or after L4D2 I'm not sure)
* custom maps for L4D will work with L4D2 instantly
* lots of new weapons, more than just five
* team wanted to add more than just new maps, reasoning for sequel
* SDK and matchmaking will be released after E3
* wanted a clean slate to work with L4D2, old characters won't return. it's about the WORLD, not the PEOPLE
Looks like the name "Left 4 Dead" was actually referencing the game itself. Released it, and started work on the "sequel"...which is SO DIFFERENT that maps made for the first game will work in the second. They just couldn't POSSIBLY update the original game.
Valve details post Left 4 Dead launch plans
By Wesley Yin-Poole - 10/09/2008 - 2:39pm GMT
Intends to release new maps, characters, weapons and achievements to keep the community growing.
Left 4 Dead screenshot
Valve intends to support hotly anticipated zombie survival shooter Left 4 Dead post-release with new characters, new maps, new achievements and new weapons in order to grow the community, Gabe Newell has revealed.
Speaking to VideoGamer.com at Leipzig Games Convention, the Valve co-founder and managing director said the developer intended to follow a similar downloadable content policy as it has with Team Fortress 2.
Left 4 Dead, set for release on PC and Xbox 360 on November 21 in Europe, is primarily a four-player cooperative game that sees a group of Survivors battle through four 'Movies' and against 28 Days Later-style zombies called The Infected.
Newell said that Valve's support of the game post-launch will be essential for growing the community.
He said: "One of the things that we're doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service. So if you look at Team Fortress 2, one of things that's really helped grow the community is the continuous updates, where we release new maps, new character classes, new unlockables, new weapons. And we tell the stories about the characters, like the meet the sniper, or meet the sandwich. And that ongoing delivery of content really seems to grow the community.
"So each time we've released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we've seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we'll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we'll have the initial release and then we'll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that's the way you continue to grow a community over time."
I'd be pissed if I bought L4D..but I didn't, so it's kinda funny.Hehe well at least you know how most of us feel.
It's pretty amazing how fast Valve got on to developing L4D2 yet how long it takes them to do anything with Half-Life.That's b/c Half-Life is *their* baby and brainchild -- they will always give the utmost over-ridiculous care to.
I agree with Pug. It really looks like this was intended as DLC for L4D but somehow turned into a "new" thing altogether, probably fueled from the fiasco over the Survival pack. The fanboys' reaction to the Survival pack possibly costing money validated the possibility of Valve charging for it and anything else. I wouldn't be shocked if Valve will eventually charge for updates to Team Fortress 2.I'd have no problem w/ L4D2 being sold at an expansion pack price upon release or DLC. B/c really, that is what this "so-called sequel" looks like to me.
I already paid full price for L4D; three times since I bought two more copies, one for my brother and one for my cousin. It was a time of celebration. I got caught in all the excitement. I'm not paying any more. Valve can floss their greedy teeth with my ass hairs before I waste another penny on them.Yeah, call me when L4D2 is expansion pack price or less.
Put simply, Valve wasn't entirely satisfied with the original game.
That's letting them off way too easy. No pay to buy DLC. They need to finish a goddamn complete game, and provide the free fucking content they all but promised everyone in the first place. I didn't even lose any money on this and it's infuriating.
Ugh. (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/02/left-4-dead-2-will-last-much-longer-as-a-platform/)
"This one will be the platform we build on and will give you all kinds of updates. You know, like the updates we promised for the first one. Really this time. No foolin'. Also, thanks for buying our beta for $50."
Shack: What price-point should we expect?At least there still seems to be a lot of people upset by this whole mess.
Doug Lombardi: This is a full sequel.
Shack: So full price?
Doug Lombardi: Yeah. At the end of the day, this is going to be a bigger game than Left 4 Dead. It's five campaigns versus four, all five are playable in Versus mode, Survival mode out of the box, the new multiplayer game mode. Plus over 20 new weapons and items. It's a full sequel.
They only reason its 20 "maps" is the engine can't handle single maps that large.True.
D it is a multiplayer game. Who cares about time?
Actually, if we look at the "Campaigns", whether you play them online with friends or offline alone -- these ALL act more like SP portions -- they have a start and an finish.
So, say there were 10 campaigns -- and they all took 1 hour to finish. Would anybody really be complaining then about this sequel?
I highly doubt it.
To be honest, most people who bought the game got more value out of it than most games you can buy.I've got about at least over 40 hours or more logged into the game, myself. Most of it, probably in the first few weeks I had it.
Gamers have gotten over 6 months of entertainment, so it is kinda stupid to calculate the hours in maps in a multiplayer game.If Shadowrun PC didn't get a bus pass b/c of it lack of maps -- which many liked quite a bit but felt the game lacked maps, maps, maps -- why the hell should Valve get a bus pass here, as well?
It would be like doing that in Demigod.All four characters in L4D play exactly THE SAME. The same CANNOT be said for Demigod -- in which each Demigod has their own array of abilities, advantages, disadvantages, etc etc. Plus, the skill trees are so extensive, your character is going to wind-up quite different by the time you finish each battle.
Yea the L4D2 thing is effed, but L4D1 was still the definitive zombie game experience for me.Nobody is arguing that L4D is the definitive zombie game experience. I think it's the best zombie game around, as well. It's just I don't think Valve is offering much bang for anybody's buck -- yeah, especially now, since they are pretty much killing L4D1's support here.
I've got about at least over 40 hours or more logged into the game, myself. Most of it, probably in the first few weeks I had it
That's pretty much it. How many singleplayer games can you get 40 hours out of? Or half that?Depends on the length of the entire game and also how many times you actually decide to replay the game.
... bus pass ....
... what?I think he just means "a pass" or "an ok"
The main difference is that L4D demands the players' effort and attention to really get your money's worth. On its own the game doesn't offer much beyond a playground. If the player has a high endurance for tedium and repetition then he/she can squeeze that many hours out of it. L4D is intended primarily as a multiplayer game. By contrast, other multiplayer (i.e. Rainbow Six) and singleplayer games (i.e. Elder Scrolls) provide you with a lot more content to fill the hours should you desire to delve deeper.I think one of the reasons I was able to dig so much time out of L4D was in attempting to get Achievements. I often just play a game through and if I get a Achievement, so be it.
L4D, in its current state, is clearly not worth the price tag especially when compared to its peers. I was the idiot who bought in to the "promise of more." On the bright side, it's a mistake I won't repeat.I got the $10 worth out of it my dad spent on it with my first run through, obviously. ;)
I will admit that the good that came out of L4D is it revitalized online coop gameplay, or at the very least contributed to it in some way. I'm seeing many more people playing coop games and more developers making them these days and I really appreciate it.Agreed 100%.
So the team brought their concepts and ideas to create a sequel to Gabe Newell, and even he was skeptical about the idea. According to Faliszek, he expressed his doubts, and claimed this move was against the character of the company. “To Gabe’s credit, and he’s a great guy to work for, he said if this is what you want to do, if this is what you’re excited about, go do it.”
Its actually kind of funny watching Valve try to do damage control. Since they are so used to people kissing their feet for the last decade, I think they forgot how.
I think it will be interesting to see how many people on this forum end up buying L4D2 within the first two months of release. I'm bookmarking this thread.
I think it will be interesting to see how many people on this forum end up buying L4D2 within the first two months of release. I'm bookmarking this thread.Haha there'd be a lotta feet in mouths :P
Haha there'd be a lotta feet in mouths :POoh this is some juicy crow material right here!
I'm holding strong on this point. Valve can suck it. The only way I'd even consider paying anything for L4D2 is if it's $5 or less. I can convince myself that the $5 are a processing/shipping fee and not regret it.
I think it will be interesting to see how many people on this forum end up buying L4D2 within the first two months of release. I'm bookmarking this thread.
I think it will be interesting to see how many people on this forum end up buying L4D2 within the first two months of release. I'm bookmarking this thread.
Count me down for a day 1 purchase. Just because I want to disagree with everyone. L4D2 looks sweet, and I'll buy it.
Actually I think a lot of the Valve hate in this thread is more of just a continuation of the non stop Steam/Valve hate we have going on. Gabe Newell had pancakes for breakfast? Fuck you Gabe! You owe us more than that! No breakfast until Steam is dead!
Fortunately, I haven't had any major trouble with Steam (yet). I do empathize with people who have though. Then there's the constant fear of "what if they cut me off from my games library? For no apparent reason other than THEY CAN!?"
Anyway, none of that, as I said, has anything to do with why L4D2 is a slap in the face. And thankfully there are plenty of people who aren't being idiots about it and just rolling over. Steam's own L4D2 boycott group has gotten over 7,000 members in the course of 3 or 4 days.I'm joining that group!!
Let me guess: Versus Survival Mode or Time Attack (see how fast you can get through an area).
Just watch this awesome L4D2 video here... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQe4tlsfRbY&feature=email)
We've given our reasons for Valve hate plenty of times. If you don't agree with them, fine, but I don't understand why everyone always asks "Why the hate?" as though it's somehow incomprehensible. You've heard the reasons. If you don't think they're a big deal, that's cool, but our reasons haven't changed, and it generally seems that we only amass more of them as the company continues to do exactly the same kinds of things that have pissed us off in the past.
But no, the reaction isn't fueled by Valve hate. It should be plainly obvious by looking at the gigantic number of people signing up for the boycott group on Steam, as most of these people are average Steam users, not anti-Valve people like us who are most certainly in the minority.
I'm not trying to bait you or anything, I just seriously don't remember why generally. Like I said, I'm not nearly as much of a valve fan as most people seem to be and a lot of times all the love gets on my nerves. As for disdain for Valve making this a bigger deal than it is, I was referring to here specifically more than anywhere else.We can start a field day on this one. I'm think up some of them -- perma-bans to some Steam users which didn't seem warranted at all; banning games bought outside of the US region (see Orange Box incident for those who imported the game from Thailand); region blocks on some games for users in different countries; offline mode not working for many gamers through Steam; Steam basically starting the trend for SP games to require online authentication; Steam can cause issues w/ BLOB and GCF files for games which could result in you needing to reinstall Steam and all your Steam games; Steam was a resource hog (back when it first dropped); Steam needs to be turned off through MSConfig so it don't run in the background; L4D lacking content for its price; L4D2 being pumped out too quickly; HL games always seem to leave more cliffhangers hanging than necessary; MP games just don't work if Steam's down; etc etc.
Don't get me wrong - it's shitty and it's good that there is a nerd boycott going on...I just wonder if it'd be a bit different if it was Epic or Id.Despite digging UT3: Black, I still got a major axe to grind w/ Epic for not fixing GoW1 PC's stuttering issue and (given the way GOW PC ends) with also not bringing me GoW2 PC, Cliffy B basically calling ALL PC gamers pirates (when UT3 and GOW PC sold like shit), thanks...
Well, sure it could be different if this was another company (though I wouldn't say Epic or id... I do like id, but I don't have some insane love or loyalty to them, and Epic has pissed me off a whole bunch of times despite the fact that I often enjoy their games).Epic has done a lot in the past few years to piss me off -- mostly, fueled by Cliffy B and his bad-attitude towards PC gamers. Sure, I can understand he's pissed at pirates -- but does he have bring the rest of the legit buyers into it? And it's defiintely clear that after GoW PC dropped, they really didn't care about patching the stuttering issue on GOW PC b/c the game sold like shit since if was pirated to holy hell -- they forgot to patch the game for the 1,000's of legit users that bought the damn PC game. They only patched GoW PC game recently b/c of the Microsoft time certificate issue -- which is the only issue that new patch fixed. They still ain't fixed the stuttering issue...STILL.
I suppose I should restate my earlier comments and rephrase slightly. Really, I should have said this isn't entirely about Valve hate. That has to be part of it because you can't separate a company from its product entirely, nor can you separate a company from its past. I mean, that's why fuckups from other companies don't always piss me off so much even if I think they're unfortunate. Case in point Bethesda. Sure, they fucked up a bunch of times, and their games are often a bit buggy, but I've spent a lot of time around their boards and have been playing their products for years, and they've always treated me well. If you treat me well, I'm far less likely to be pissed when you make a mistake, especially if you acknowledge that mistake at some point. So yes, I'd definitely be pissed off at any company that pulled this stunt, but I would probably be a bit more forgiving if this was their first mistake and if my past experiences with them had been overwhelmingly positive. If I was neutral toward them or hadn't had much experience, I'd be pretty damned soured on them going forward, and in the case of Valve who I openly dislike for a variety of reasons, it's simply more grist for the mill.About BethSoft, yeah -- they've always done a good job I thought with fixing their problems. They are far from the technical experts, that's for sure. Given how big their projects are, I guess that's why it occurs. And usually, they do the patching in quite a timely fashion, too.
I want to say, "I'd buy it", but... Steam.I'm waiting for a price cut or a kick-ass sale on Killing Floor.
And now, Valve and their moderators are starting to take action against L4D2 Boycott Club... (http://kotaku.com/5281374/l4d-sequel-met-with-much-more-than-indifference)
I'm not trying to bait you or anything, I just seriously don't remember why generally. Like I said, I'm not nearly as much of a valve fan as most people seem to be and a lot of times all the love gets on my nerves. As for disdain for Valve making this a bigger deal than it is, I was referring to here specifically more than anywhere else. Don't get me wrong - it's shitty and it's good that there is a nerd boycott going on...I just wonder if it'd be a bit different if it was Epic or Id.
We can start a field day on this one. I'm think up some of them -- perma-bans to some Steam users which didn't seem warranted at all; banning games bought outside of the US region (see Orange Box incident for those who imported the game from Thailand);
I saw that post. They aren't banning people for joining that group, but for people spamming. In the most popular thread on the L4D2 page, there is a thread that talks about the group first up. Again, the situation is better than the EA forums for example.If you don't mind me asking then, what's up w/ the EA forums lately?
And I've done all sorts of crazy shit on those forums during the past hour. I have spammed, likened Gabe to Jabba the Hut bla bla bla.LOL.
They've removed about 20 inappropriate posts of mine, but haven't banned me yet. Anyone who is spamming is getting their posts removed, but single posts about the Hitler vid., and the Boycott club remain.No warnings yet?
The average $50 game costs $15-$20 in Thailand. It is an original complete version specifically for that market.Wait....is it the same exact game itself?
Valve did not ban the accounts, they removed the entire games associated with those accounts and reset their passwords.Yes, I know piracy's horrible out there...unfortunately; and piracy's a bitch in most parts of the world, as well, unfortunately.
If I were a company, I would have done the same fucking thing.
The levels of piracy in China and Thailand are enormous. Plus the average income level isn't the same either. Not only Valve, but all official games come out there with $15-$20 pricing. It is just to get what they can. You can buy $50 official copies of Vista in this part of the world as well... though they are nerfed a bit.
On the flip side, the packaging is TERRIBLE, cheap and incomplete. I know, I bought an official copy of the Orange Box for $22 from India. These boxes are CLEARLY labeled that the products within aren't meant for sale outside of their countries.Would you elaborate on the packaging even more so from India? I mean, does it come in like a box w/ the DVD in a paper sleeve or something (like Atari used to do a lot)? Or even worse? Since Valve doesn't give manuals w/ their games anymore even in the USA -- I'm betting over there, they don't get one, either.
If some people are buying these copies off of eBay, then it is up to eBay to regulate them.My worries about the Region blocking stems back to me buying a lot of UK Imports -- I buy a good deal here and there from Gogamer myself; usually on sale quite cheap. Often, these versions are the exact same as the USA -- game manual, DVD case, and the game on disc.
Aside from this situation, it definitely is more over the top here than anywhere else. I am not sure why that is either. I guess all the love for Valve brings a bigger backlash here than anywhere on the internet, even when it isn't a big deal. But yea, smaller negatives are definitely flamed up far more here, while logic and level headed judgment isn't applied when Valve is involved. Basically people here have wanted Valve to fuck up majorly for a long time, and I guess they are happy now that it has happened. :PI agree with you. Well not about Valve being hated here more than anywhere else because I don't go anywhere else so I wouldn't know.
I don't get how Epic gets a pass and Valve burned at the stake. Cliff Blezinski accused every PC gamer of being a dirty pirate, yet that is overlooked? Epic basically abandoned support for GoW on the PC even though several major bugs still exist, and that is overlooked?I'm still waiting on these fixes to GoW1. As much as I liked GoW1 PC, they really need to fix the issues w/ the damn thing -- especially the nasty stuttering issue. That's really my biggest concern w/ the game.
my feelings on DRM -- minus the fact that I never really had problems w/ Steam, luckily.
That about sums it up really.
meh..
I wrote a long post, but I am not going to bother posting it. I know this will end with a lot of RAWWRRRRRs and stuff, so it is pointless. I'd just like to point out that there are quite a few users at OW who use STEAM and have simply stopped posting on the gaming section on all things related Valve, because they find it a bit nauseating as well.
I don't think anyone is arguing any of your points, Que. Not even MyD; he's just saying that he hasn't had that many problems with Steam.That's exactly what I'm saying, X -- that I ain't had many problems w/ Steam. My analogy w/ Securom, Steam, and other DRM's -- same thing, I've been lucky without having tons of issues that others had with them. I might not have had the issues, but I know of others -- like say Que and Idol; that's just two of many -- who have had more problems w/ it than you can shake a stick at. And those problems others have had, they should NOT go ignored. They need to be mentioned so action can be taken. We who don't have the problems might run into them, if companies like Valve don't fix the issues. And of course, those who have these issues already, more so than anyone else, they don't deserve to be without a paddle like that -- b/c that just freaking sucks. None of us want to wind up in that boat and deserve to row the boat w/out the paddle b/c of a company who doesn't want to support their products properly. These issues, they need to be at least attempted to be resolved by game companies -- and eventually resolved. That was my point, some few posts up. I hope it's much clearer now.
You know, it also isn't very fair to say to people "Your points are invalid because I have no problems." I mean, that's great for you and all, but come on, is that any way to treat your buddies over here having problems with games they can't even use?
It also seems to me that because many of you believe Stardock to be the antiValve, many of their faults are really glossed over. Though it has to be said, that I am probably alone in this opinion as far as I know, so I am probably off the mark.No, I'd say GOG is the Anti-Valve.
I've had no problems with Steam. I kinda like it now. That is all.
Thanks for the feedback, we know that Steam has a few different issues with slower connections. Unfortunately these aren't small issues, they're taking a while to work through. We do plan on updating the Steam client first with more information about exactly what is being downloaded, and then we'll update with some improvements to how clients start/stop getting content, as well as more controls over what to update how much and when. Thank you for your patience in this.
I've had no problems with Steam. I kinda like it now. That is all.
Nice to see you got a response already, idol. I sent them something a while back and got no response.
Shocking though I know it must be, I was actually rather polite and reasonable.Hehe Que asking for some L4D content:
To Idol:It's not just power users MyD, anyone who has a relatively slow connection. I've always preferred separate update downloads primarily because updates and patches have been getting huge, and sometimes I like to enjoy a game while the patch is en route then only worrry about installing it later at my convenience. For multiplayer-only stuff it makes sense, just like MMO's the launcher always auto-updates the game. However, it's not a great policy for singleplayer games (unless you have a blazing fast connection and you don't give a crap), as Pug mentioned, sometimes late at night I just want to have a quickie, maybe 15 mins, and the damn thing decides it's update time.
I bet that's exactly what it's for -- so that the newest version is the one the bugs are always being reported on to Valve, which is smart. Also, it makes it easy that Joe Gamer who is not computer savvy doesn't have to do much on his end to get updates to the newest version.
Though, yeah -- power-users might hate that b/c they are getting stuff forced on them, whether they like it or not. Especially b/c new versions might break an awesome mod, as you mentioned -- and you're stuck with using latest version of said game. Also, if the newest version has a nasty new issue/bug/problem introduced (for some reason) -- especially if it's specific to a certain set of hardware, software, drivers, or whatever you're running -- yeah, you might not be happy that you can't resort to an older version that'll actually work correctly.
It's not just power users MyD, anyone who has a relatively slow connection. I've always preferred separate update downloads primarily because updates and patches have been getting huge, and sometimes I like to enjoy a game while the patch is en route then only worrry about installing it later at my convenience. For multiplayer-only stuff it makes sense, just like MMO's the launcher always auto-updates the game. However, it's not a great policy for singleplayer games (unless you have a blazing fast connection and you don't give a crap), as Pug mentioned, sometimes late at night I just want to have a quickie, maybe 15 mins, and the damn thing decides it's update time.All great points -- agreed with you on all of this.
The other thing is with new patches, sometimes your old saves are just no good anymore and they won't work. So, upgrading to a new patch might not be something you want forced on you -- especially if you're already a good portion through the game.Yep, which happened to me with Fallout 3. LIVE decided it wouldn't let the game load up unless I updated. Normally I'd just click "Later" and move on but for some reason it prompted me with something along the lines of "If you click CANCEL the game will close until you update." So I downloaded the update, let the installer do its thing, copied the Patch file from the temp folder for future reference, then reloaded FO3 only to find that all of my saves bring my character out in the middle of the wasteland (nothing to do with the little save screenshots) in awkward places i.e. clipped inside a bridge or something, and if I pressed any of the move keys it crashes. Sorry, I wnet off on a tangent but going along with your point the save incompatibility can be a bitch.
Newell: We’re always going look at what makes sense to do and how to manage that transition.Riiiiight.. Having L4D and L4D2 run and supported simultaneously makes a lot of sense.
Newell: You have these complicated situations and on PC it’s not so bad. On the Xbox it’s a lot more complicated because you can’t guarantee that people have all of the right content given their DLC model, where some people might have some content and others not, which makes it end of up with this weird, complicated thing where this person has this, and this person has this. Where as on the PC we can assume that people have everything. So, we’re trying to get that fixed because they’re sort of cramping our ability to push more free content into customer’s hands when we aren’t sure which free content they have right? And the stuff that you’re allowed to require customer’s to have on the Xbox, it’s only 8MB. That’s the maximum size you can ever change.So Newell's reasoning for making L4D2 a completely separate product instead of DLC is due to the X360 counterpart and XLIVE's DLC model, not the PC version. If this is the argument then L4D2 should be available only on the X360 while the PC version of L4D should receive an update to v2.0 which includes all the content. At least that way the X360 players can only blame Microsoft for the DLC model, which I've already heard a lot of complaints about.
"Games as a service" is a phrase that sends me into a psychotic frenzy. Instead of saying anything else, I'll just stop there.Yeah, seriously what the fuck is that supposed to mean?! "Games as a service" my ass.
Valve doesn't have a leg to stand on if they're trying to inject reason into the way they've handled this franchise. Everything they've said thus far can, I think, be quite fairly considered bullshit.I'm inclined to agree with you. It's just a feeble attempt at damage control.
Yeah, seriously what the fuck is that supposed to mean?! "Games as a service" my ass.Not in Valve's case for L4D. They ain't treating L4D like a "service." The point of trying to treat a "game as a service" is to patch often, update game often, add some new free DLC at least here and there (or quite often, better yet -- which Valve hasn't done with L4D). I think this new buzz phrase is to speak to the gamer that Version 1.00 is NOT the last version you'll see from the dev's, either -- which is what us gamers want.
He missed the point. It's like I said, if Valve had never made a big point at creating something you plan on adding future content to then I wouldn't have a problem. It don't feel like I am entitled to anything, but if your going to be a business then have some decency to be honest to your consumers. Can I get that at least or am I being too selfish and whiney?
We're pretty excited about this next Left 4 Dead update, and we hope you will be as well. Since the Left 4 Dead Authoring Tools Beta was released several weeks ago, mod authors have been cooking with gas, so to speak. The ranks of dedicated community members working hard to create new content have been swelling, and a very hungry horde awaits...This...doesn't seem so special. Quake 3 had pk3 archive files for the last decade.
We've long believed that Left 4 Dead should fully support community content, and we've been hard at work enhancing the UI and matchmaking systems to provide full support for your creations. The latest update, which will be available via Steam next week, is focused on custom campaigns. It introduces several key features:
Add-Ons
Third party campaigns are designed to be installed using a new Add-On framework. Content authors will be able to package up their new maps, along with new posters, models, and textures, into a single .VPK file. To install and activate this content in-game, players need simply download the .VPK and double click on it. Alternatively, they will be able to drop it into a new "addons" folder. The list of installed add-ons will be viewable from a new item on the 'Extras' main menu flyout.
MatchmakingIf I'm reading this right, you won't be able to find servers for campaigns you dont already have. You'd need to be invited to the lobby to get the option to download it.
Because Left 4 Dead is all about sharing, we've re-tooled Left 4 Dead's matchmaking system to provide extensive support for custom add-on campaigns. When creating or searching for a lobby, a new option named "Add-on campaign" will let you select from among the add-on campaigns that you have installed. You can then find games or lobbies as well as create a lobby for that campaign. You can invite your friends, too. If they do not have the campaign installed, they will automatically be offered and an option to download it.
We've also made it easier to create lobbies by adding a 'Create Lobby' option directly from the 'Play Online' menu. Once you're ready to go, the new matchmaking system will automatically try to find any dedicated servers nearby that have the custom add-on campaign installed, or you can make your own local server.Not much to say except its about damn time the SDK gets released. For real. The question remains, though...is it a real SDK where you can modify the gameplay itself or is this simply for map making?
Authoring Tools
We're also officially releasing the Authoring tools/SDK. Thanks to all who provided feedback during the open beta, the authoring tools have been updated with a few fixes and several new additions, including:
* The tutorial_standards map has been expanded into a minimal example campaign add-on called 'Dead Line'
* A new command line utility for creating and extracting from .VPK files
* Source files for all the official campaign maps
Also, look for a new tutorial on how to package up your campaigns into add-ons on the Developer Community wiki.
Have fun!
I like the enw matchmaking option because I always dreaded connecting to a server then finding out I'd have to download a crapload of mod files that it was running. It's one of the reasons I avoid playing UT3 online these days.Yeah, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory got like this. Every server was running some special gameplay mod, a unique skin pack, logos, and custom maps. You'd be lucky if you were playing the game in an hour. And even if you did, then next map change and you'd have to download that map too.
I like the enw matchmaking option because I always dreaded connecting to a server then finding out I'd have to download a crapload of mod files that it was running. It's one of the reasons I avoid playing UT3 online these days.
Valve's VP of Marketing, Doug Lombardi has revealed to TVG that the developer is looking at providing cross-game play between the original Left 4 Dead and its incoming sequel.
Such a feature, which would allow players of the original Left 4 Dead to play alongside other users running Left 4 Dead 2, is one of the demands made by the now 37,000 member strong Left 4 Dead 2 boycott group on Steam.
"That's something that we're trying to work out the details of right now," Lombardi said of the cross-game play feature. "So nothing specific to say today, but we understand that it's a very valid thing to be working on and looking at."
On the MOD front, Lombardi revealed that Valve is building Left 4 Dead 2 with the aim of allowing MODs to be easily transferable between L4D1 and L4D2:
"With the MOD stuff, if you're making stuff for Left 4 Dead it will work in Left 4 Dead 2 with very minor amounts of work to bring it over. So we feel we've made good steps on that side and now we're looking at how we manage that for folks who buy the first game and sequel."
Valve's VP of Marketing, Doug Lombardi has revealed that the developer is looking at providing crossdressing gameplay between the original Left 4 Dead and its incoming sequel.
Such a feature, which would allow players of the original Left 4 Dead to play transsexual/gender-questionable characters alongside other users running Left 4 Dead 2, is one of the demands made by the yawning chasm of human filth that is Steam's collective user base.
"That's something that we're trying to work out the details of right now," Lombardi said of the crossdressing game play feature. "So nothing specific to say today, but expect to see a lot of dongs in some really weird places."
On the MOD front, Lombardi revealed that Valve is building Left 4 Dead 2 with the aim of allowing MODs to be easily transferable between L4D1 and L4D2:
"With the MOD stuff, if you're making stuff for Left 4 Dead it will work in Left 4 Dead 2 with very minor amounts of work to bring it over. Because, you know, it's exactly the same game. So we feel we've made good steps on that side and now we're looking at how we manage that for folks who buy the first game and expansion. Oh... fuck, I mean the sequel. Shit, did I say that out loud? Sequel, damn it. Man, Gabe's gonna' have my balls..."
"With the MOD stuff, if you're making stuff for Left 4 Dead it will work in Left 4 Dead 2 with very minor amounts of work to bring it over. So we feel we've made good steps on that side and now we're looking at how we manage that for folks who buy the first game and sequel."As if having 10 different beta versions of maps weren't bad enough, now you'll have 10 different beta versions for each game to sort through, and you better have the same version as your friends to play.
As if having 10 different beta versions of maps weren't bad enough, now you'll have 10 different beta versions for each game to sort through, and you better have the same version as your friends to play.
No matter how you buy Left 4 Dead 2 on PC, you're going to end up going through Steam eventually. If you're not the type to cling to having a box and disc in hand, pre-ordering directly through Steam looks like the way to go. Valve has begun allowing people to pre-order their latest game and outlined the list of perks you'll get for doing so -- beginning with a 10% discount off the game's regular $50 price, bringing it down to $45.
In addition to that, you'll earn early access to the demo, which Valve says is currently slated for an October 27 release. That's three weeks of demo time to sink your teeth into before the game releases on November 17, at which point you'll get your hands on the final pre-order perk: an exclusive in-game American baseball bat. (No word on whether that comes with a batch of HGH so you can really swing the bat like a pro.)
There's also an offer up on the game's Steam page that allows you to buy four copies of the game at discount, leaving you to distribute the game to three of your friends. The price is $135 which sounds pricey, but that comes out to only $33.75 per person, so that might be the way to go even if you're not feeling charitable. Pool your money with friends and save some cash.
Besides the new campaigns and weapons, Left 4 Dead 2 will feature a new multiplayer mode: Scavenge. Here's the PR:
Oct 8, 2009 - Valve, creator of best-selling game franchises (such as Half-Life and Counter-Strike) and leading technologies (such as Steam and Source), today announced Scavenge, the fourth game mode to be included in its upcoming zombie thriller, Left 4 Dead 2.
Scavenge mode challenges players to compete in round-based games of up to 8 players (Survivors vs. Infected). The Survivors must battle both the Infected and the clock as they collect gas cans to refuel a generator located in each map. Every can the Survivors pour into the generator scores their team a point and adds time to the clock.
On defense, the Infected team plays as the boss Infected (including the new Spitter, Jockey, and Charger). They must keep the Survivors from fueling the generator by attacking them, destroying the gas cans, or running out the clock. During a round, each team gets an opportunity to play both sides, with the round going to whichever team successfully delivers the most cans.
The recently released Crash Course was just the start. Future updates will continue to roll in, and 4v4 matchmaking is first in line. Valve has confirmed to us that it’ll be available before the release of L4D2. Also don’t forget, we have another DLC pack confirmed for sometime in the near future and of course, there will be bug fixes. This is as good as it can get people.Is it me or does that read a lot like a press release?
As for Left 4 Dead 2 we are all aware it expands on L4D’s gameplay and takes it to the next level. Its successful sales only confirm that we’ll get to slaughter more zombies in future, not that we have failed. We understand some of you have a problem with its price tag. Personally, I’m quite surprised with the discount on pre-orders; A 4 Pack bundle brings it down to only $33.75 for each person. I see many people took advantage of this including "boycotters", but to be honest that’s a fair price. In other words, that’s what expansions cost.
Is it me or does that read a lot like a press release?
The boycott is over. (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott/announcements/detail/91356134662203323)
Well, that group is. Gah, they start a boycott and then close it up before the game they were "boycotting" was even released. The two "leaders" have decided that Valve has met their goals so they will be deleting the group.
Is it me or does that read a lot like a press release?
I was checking achievements the other day, and it looks like I don't even have the one for finishing one of the scenarios on the first L4D. Apparently I died just before the end, and watched my friends jump on the helicopter and escape without me. My friends got bored of the game fast, and I just don't have the want to play through any of it a second time on my own. It's just not as fun solo, and I don't feel like playing with random people.
I'm torn on the L4D2 thing. On one hand, I do feel the price I paid for the first was worth it. On the other, I don't think the sequel is worth it, and it's even existence cheapens the experience and value of the first (I imagine barren servers and the like). All in all, I think Valve dropped the ball and it SHOULD be an expansion. I can see why they did it and would even jump on board if it was more of an upgrade, but as it is, it's not worth it and will probably kill the first game.
I also want to know how they could pump this out but not a word of HL2: E3 yet.
I pre-loaded it last weekend. Sadly, Borderlands makes me not really care anymore.Cool @ you pre-loading it.
This game doesn't interest me even a tiny bit. Neither does AC2. I think I'm finally starting to get a bit more picky.
This game doesn't interest me even a tiny bit. Neither does AC2. I think I'm finally starting to get a bit more picky.
That's not really true. There are some games that happens with, such as Dragon Age, but this is mostly because I probably buy 4 times as many games as most of the people here. Naturally some end up taking me by surprise. Borderlands definitely did that. The change in art style turned me off a lot at first, so I just stopped paying much attention... then I heard more about it close to release, got more inerested, and ended up loving it. AC2 I'm not interested in just because I really didn't dig on the first game that much. I loved the world it built but got bored to death of it pretty quick. In theory the 2nd could interest me at some point if I happen to be in a certain mood and if certain problems are fixed, but it's unlikely. L4D2 I definitely don't give a shit about. It doesn't do anything new at all and isn't worth paying actual money for. I'm more or less sick of the original.For me, as much as COD:MW2, AC2 and L4D2 does sound like they're probably going to be good and all - they do look like "more of the same" and are basically just sequels that have some improvements on the original game. They're just not really jumping out to me to "go buy now".
I just got the demo on a whim through steam, played through it and I loved it.
Valve really ought to give special coupons to all the loyal customers who actually bought L4D1. Something no less than a 50% discount on L4D2 for all current owners of L4D.
Valve really ought to give special coupons to all the loyal customers who actually bought L4D1. Something no less than a 50% discount on L4D2 for all current owners of L4D.
It just seems like the kind of game that is much more fun if youre playing with people you know as opposed to randos.That's how I feel about most co-op games.
Left 4 Dead 2: Edited Australian Version ReviewWoah, that's frickin' ridiculous! I thought the Germans were bad when it came to censoring violence!
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/104/1047522p1.html
That was one of the most idiotic articles I've ever read. On top of being opinionated, insulting, and blatantly biased, nearly everything he says is completely contradictory to his point. L4D2 is exactly what he says it isn't: the exact same fucking game with some new shit thrown into it.
I'm blown away. That is probably one of the most moronic professional attempts at fanboy justification I have ever read. Kudos, Destructoid. I didn't think all that much of you before, but I sure as fuck won't give you the benefit of the doubt in the future.
If Blizzard released WoW 2 a year after WoW and stopped supporting it you'd bet people would be pissed.Oh man, could you imagine?! That could cause a backlash that would ripple outside of the gaming community! We'd hear about it on the evening news! haha
In related news, I just played through the L4D2 demo for like the 5th or 6th time. I hate myself for enjoying it.
One thing the original L4D1 had is missing this time around in L4D2 - the fresh feeling of playing something brand new that really made the first game so great (despite its short length and lack of content).
Isn't fist fighting zombies... stupid?
You know, I sort of get that feeling playing the demo. I guess it's because I never played that much L4D1 and it's been almost a year. So now I'm trying it out and it feels fresh, and more fun.
I think the L4D games need bosses. Yea it can be intense to fight off a shitload of zombies, but it can be more intense to fight some of the special infected. So we already have special infected, which are almost like bosses, and stretch the idea of what a zombie is (Obviously special infected aren't just reanimated dead people. They're mutated.) So why not take it one step further and put a seriously badass boss at the end of a campaign?Sounds good to me. But, I don't think say a serious bad-ass zombie boss should end every single campaign, though - as I think variety would really be the key, if you ask me. Maybe one campaign, bad-ass boss fight. Another campaign - the usual "defend an area until you are rescued L4D finale." I'm probably sure there's other ways they could end a campaign, too . Just, mix it up more, Valve.
Until they make the SDK stop working after a month so they can force you to buy L4D3 for $80.
Valve Time
Until the problem is fixed with an SDK update
Actual Time
For the engine after the engine after this (where everything but our tools has changed)
Left 4 Dead 2 PC Mod Tools, Support Arrive
by Chris Faylor Dec 24, 2009 3:00pm CST tags: Left 4 Dead 2
On top of knocking 33% off Left 4 Dead 2 PC today, developer Valve has released the tools that allow owners of the zombie shooter to create and play their own content.
The optional "Add-on Support" and "Authoring Tools" downloads are now available to owners via Steam's "Tools" tab, respectively weighing in at 350MB and 20MB. The "Add-on Support" download allows Left 4 Dead 2 to run "ANY map, including custom maps made for the original Left 4 Dead," according to Valve's Yasser Malaika.
To enable custom content creation, both "Add-on Support" and "Authoring Tools" must be downloaded, with Valve offering the following rundown of "the most useful" additions, tweaks and updates made over the original Left 4 Dead's authoring tools:
Gamemode Logic: Designers can now make a single map that can behave differently depending on the gamemode in which it is being played. This can dramatically reduce the file size of Campaign add-ons, as the same map can be used for Co-op, Versus, Scavenge, and Survival.
Director Logic: Maps can now alter their layout and behavior depending on how "angry" the A.I. director is. The better the Survivors are doing, the angrier the AI Director seems to get. This allows you to base variable paths and other events on the player's skill and current conditions.
Scavenge Mode Support! All the elements map authors need to support Scavenge in their maps. This includes game props as well as a full example in the form of Deadline 2, an updated tutorial campaign.
We have included an updated tutorial to help you get going and as always you can join the discussion on the map designer email list. What we want for New Years is to get to play your custom maps in Left 4 Dead 2. For the best user experience and to take advantage of the new map and nav mesh formats, Left 4 Dead 1 Map Makers will want to compile Left 4 Dead 2 specific versions of their map in the new tool.
While we wait for the next major content update for Left 4 Dead 2 to be released, Valve continues to push out new updates for their zombie co-op shooter via Steam. Today a new patch was made available and while it's mainly bug fixes it does have something interesting; a way for banned players to get a little reprieve.Maybe I'm mistaken but that line seems to indicate that if you got VAC banned in multiplayer that it banned your use of the game entirely. Thats terrible! I thought it was bad enough that a VAC ban in any individual game ended up banning a person from ALL VAC secured multiplayer games. But it can also disable your use of that game in singleplayer? With no returns, no refund, "Thanks for the $50, now you can't play it AT ALL."?
Folks who Valve banned from playing the multiplayer portion of Left 4 Dead 2 via Valve's own VAC anti-cheat system can now play the game again . . . but that access is limited to the game's single player campaigns. They can also check out the end credits and even Valve's extensive in-game commentary. All in all it's a nice thing to offer people who can't play fair in multiplayer games.
Am I the only one that finds this horrifying? (http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/02/05/latest-left-4-dead-2-patch-gives-banned-players-a-minor-reprieve/)
Maybe I'm mistaken but that line seems to indicate that if you got VAC banned in multiplayer that it banned your use of the game entirely. Thats terrible! I thought it was bad enough that a VAC ban in any individual game ended up banning a person from ALL VAC secured multiplayer games. But it can also disable your use of that game in singleplayer? With no returns, no refund, "Thanks for the $50, now you can't play it AT ALL."?
Thats fucking evil.
Oh god....how long do the mid-week madness sales go for? Anyone else interested?
Midweek Madness Sale: Left 4 Dead 2 50% off
Left 4 Dead 2 is available for 50% off until Thursday at 4 PM PDT!
anyone else interested in splitting the four pack?
The Passing is available for download, just let your Steam update L4D2.
Left 4 Dead... In Space!
Kotaku
Left 4 Dead's world is a miserable one, no? Ruins, and darkness, and more ruins, and zombies. What the game needs is a break. A break in space.
Mapper Aigik has come up with Contact, a Left 4 Dead 2 map that puts both zombies and survivors in a sci-fi setting, with fancy lighting, holograms and planetary bases. Like Metroid Prime, then, only without a suit to save you from the rotting jaw of the living dead.
You can grab it here, but be warned: in terms of both performance and zombie AI, it's not quite perfect.
Good for free DLC, paying for it would have sucked though.SP deserves as much new FREE content that it can get...
SP deserves as much new FREE content that it can get.
SP...like, single-player? Now who in the world plays SP?
SP...like, single-player? Now who in the world plays SP?
I do, sometimes. It feels more casual, in that I can pause whenever I want. I can play while half paying attention to the TV, then pause for more interesting parts of whatever I'm watching. Something is more relaxing about the ability to just stop and take a break whenever.
I used to do the same with UT and Q3 a lot, just play bot matches. I know it's less of a challenge, but it's less competitive and thus more of a relaxing experience. (obviously the competition isn't there in the L4D campaigns though)
Well, Campaign Mode, I should say - since Campaign is SP or MP Co-Op.
Really, I would have liked to have seen more. This is better than Crash Course for L4D1, but about the same size...maybe a tiny bit longer. Having the old survivors there also didn't really add anything at all. They certainly could have handled that a lot better.
I guess that makes sense. I haven't really played any SP at all, but I can kind of imagine what you're talking about. Although the bot AI in the game is dumb as fuck (or at least that's the impression I get when someone is idling), it could still be a decent twitch shooting experience.
. And unlike with other players, if you die it's over and you're starting from the last safehouse.Oh. Now that is weak.
Honestly, I think the endings all work pretty well. Hell, I was content with them all being "Last Stand" end missions in the first game.
The original plan was to make The Sacrifice for Left 4 Dead only. L4D2 had The Passing, and its counterpart was meant as an exclusive for the original game. Chet explains. “It’s a really fun campaign, it’s got lots of high Hunter leap points and stuff. And we said ‘You know, this would be really cool in Left 4 Dead 2. Some of these locations would be cool for the Spitter and the Charger.’ So we decided we’d release The Sacrifice not just for Left 4 Dead 1, but for Left 4 Dead 2.”
Kinda cool if you have either game (or both). I just find it interesting that it was originally intended as an exclusive for L4D.
Have we gotten over the original L4D/L4D2 fiasco? I kinda stopped caring a while back, at least since I got L4D2 for under $20. I know that contradicts my original claim "I'd only buy it for $5 or less!!" but, honestly $10~$15 is fair.
I'm over it, but this kind of stuff just shows what a clusterfuck it was. Valve did fuck over the people that bought L4D1 above expansion pack pricing ($30).There - I think that looks better. ;P
Sure we get this DLC, but so does L4D2. Plus L4D2 gets the most popular L4D1 campaign ported over. It would have been so much better if they had made one version of the game and focused their efforts on updating it since now they are stuck dealing with two games that aren't that different.Bingo.
They really could have saved a lot of trouble if L4D2 was just a free update for all owners of the original L4D.
In my case, I'm not all that wound up because my total expenditure on both games is about $30 (for myself) though I did initially buy 3 copies of the original L4D.
Whats funny is after this next update, they pretty much will have done that. The hardest thing to do would be to get the original cast of characters into L4D2, which Valve is now doing for the No Mercy port.Which, knowing Valve and Valve Time, will probably take 1 year or so to do just that. :P
All the original campaigns have already been ported to L4D2 by the community. So once this update hits there won't be much of a reason to buy or play L4D1 anymore.So pretty much, The Community did most of the work already for Valve. :P
The Sacrifice update is now out. Beware, L4D2 owners, the update is over 3GB! No idea what it is for L4D1.
Specifically, Team Fortress 2 players will gain access to the frying pan melee weapon and a stylin' trucker cap modeled after the one Ellis wears in Left 4 Dead 2. Furthermore, these items are apparently compatible with all nine classes in the cartoonish shooter.
More L4D2 DLC coming. (http://www.l4d.com/blog/post.php?id=5019)So is this where they laugh at the people that bought L4D1?
Left 4 Dead 1's other THREE campaigns are being moved over to L4D2.