Talking with Strategy Informer about the upcoming release of Star Wars: The Old Republic, Daniel Erickson, Writing Director for Bioware said that Final Fantasy XIII isn't an RPG. This was in reply to a question about the main staple of The Old Republic being its story, and how the game might be affected without good game play to support it, much like Final Fantasy XIII was.
"Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's." said Erickson.
He's saying more than that. He's saying that the Final Fantasy games aren't RPGs, not just XIII.
For me role-playing elements really boil down to having a user-tailored experience.
Whether I'm playing Fallout 3, Mass Effect 2, or Dragon Age I'll always wind up building a character that exhibits similarities and take similar approaches to game events.
He does bring up some valid points but I still think that when you put a J in there, making it a JRPG, the rules no longer apply and the standards change. The argument becomes more about the cultural perception of role-playing.
I love how Bioware says this (and has said something similar before). It just makes me realize that having two-three mundane options for choices and very little actual change in story or gameplay as a result of these choices is not all that much different. I get what they're saying, but Bioware isn't much different. They offer the illusion of choice and consequence, little more. Or at least that's how it's been in every game of theirs I've played. It might as well just come down to going through the left door or the right door to choose a generic ending cinematic.
My point is, the title of the genre doesn't necessary describe what games categorized that way consist of. Sure, you don't role play all that much in Final Fantasy (I guess?). But you don't in Bioware games either.
Yea that's a good point.Yeah, I know how you feel. That's what they usually feel like with some exceptions.
Though I remember watching Phil play JRPGs, and always wondering out loud what made that experience an RPG. I called them action adventures.
Well, amongst the popular genre names, you've got action, adventure, role-playing, strategy, and... well sports.Haha exactly, I realize it's too general of a definition and it's not too far from what I had said the last time we had this discussion (last year or so). It is just the way I rationalize it; it helps me simplify my perspective.
If you are going to do "philosophical pondering" with the the literal meaning of those terms, then aside from the strategy genre, you are going to be left with very different assumptions than what those genre defining terms actually mean to people familiar with the gaming industry.
For example, when someone familiar with gaming thinks of an adventure game, they think of a linear puzzle solving story-based game like the classic point-and-click like Monkey's Island, or something like the Sam & Max games.
To a person not familiar with the industry, most games could be defined as adventure games.
It is the same thing with role-playing games.
What makes a roleplaying game is the mechanics of it all, where you can make significant and meaningful changes to your character's stats as the game progresses.
If you are going to go by the literal meaning however, then splinter cell too is a roleplaying game.
Haha exactly, I realize it's too general of a definition and it's not too far from what I had said the last time we had this discussion (last year or so). It is just the way I rationalize it; it helps me simplify my perspective.
One other side to this literal definition is that it will vary from player to player. The hot example being Final Fantasy games, with Bioware insisting that they are not RPGs yet so many players consider them RPGs.
I realize you are probably speaking from experience with a game like ME2 (which wasn't defined as an RPG either), but if you look at gamers like Baldur's Gate 1, Baldur's Gate 2, or even Dragon Age, you will note that the options for choices are anything but skin deep.
The two genres are very different and there are broad distinctions between the two....that's why we add a letter to differentiate the two sub-genres. Seems pretty simple and it should probably be left at that.
WARNING: SPOILERS GALOREIf I recall correctly, the elves were always on their talk about being severely mistreated in the Dragon Age world and it really gave you a sense that they thought they would never overcome it...
...
My sister recently finished and loved the hell out of Dragon Age. She restarted the game as an elf, and was shocked at how little impact her race made, so there are definitely limitations in Bioware titles... but really of the many FF RPGs I've seen my buddy Phil play, and of the FF13 I played so far, there is really no comparison. KOTOR, in my opinion, offers a lot more opportunity for roleplaying than any Final Fantasy.
My sister recently finished and loved the hell out of Dragon Age. She restarted the game as an elf, and was shocked at how little impact her race made, so there are definitely limitations in Bioware titles... but really of the many FF RPGs I've seen my buddy Phil play, and of the FF13 I played so far, there is really no comparison. KOTOR, in my opinion, offers a lot more opportunity for roleplaying than any Final Fantasy.
I understand that this is because of technical limitations, and I'm fine with that, but this is the second time Bioware has brought this up and they're really not the ones equipped to do it. Bethseda blows them out of the water in this department, as CD Projeckt Red did with The Witcher (again, not your character, not your story).One thing BethSoft really has going for them against Bioware in the RPG factor is the nature of their games are open-world affairs from the get-go. Bioware often doesn't give you the entire world - or say 90% of it - at your disposal, as soon as you start the game; while BethSoft does aim for this. Bioware often allows you to unlock an area here and there, as you go along and progress whatever the hell the main quest is.
At the same time, I have never played Chrono Cross, Vagrant Story, or Persona, so my only basis for judging these Bioware statements is Final Fantasy.Chrono Cross was great on that old Playstation. :)