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Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: Cobra951 on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 05:27:16 AM

Title: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 05:27:16 AM
Sometimes this place feels like a broken record. Game gets announced, it gets on Steam and the exact comments and sentiments are said. Maybe some of you should just stop playing games because it isn't going to get better for you, only worse. Steam isn't that fucking bad.

Maybe some of us think forums are meant for expressing thoughts and opinions?  I don't know, what do you think?  Discuss.

Do you think it's OK for these companies to tell you how and when to use what you buy?  Can it be called "buying" when you need to ask permission every time to use what you paid for?  Is it yours if you can't even access it unless you do whatever they tell you at their whim?  Is it only getting worse for me, or perhaps for you as well?  With over 30 years of perspective, it should be no surprise that my answers to all of those are negative (including the last, where "yes" is negative).
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: W7RE on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 05:57:42 AM
I sacrifice ownership for convenience with Steam. I would have all my PC games on Steam if I could. I wish I could get indie games and free to play MMOs from Steam, so it would be easier to download/update them. If I deleted one to make room for another on my HDD, then decided to come back, I wouldn't have to find the installer or anything. (yes I do this often, with MMOs that typically take up 15-30GB of space)

Sure it would be much better if I had more control over what I did with the software, if I could run it without Steam if I wanted, etc. But I'm at a point where I'm willing to sacrifice the freedom for the convenience. Sure, Steam could crumble and I could lose all my games. A fire could also burn down my house and take all my games with it. Either way, I'd lose all my games. I'm not going to dwell on the chance of a fire, or the chance of Steam crumbling.


And yes, forums are for expressing opinions. If I just wanted news, I'd read a news sites. I like to hear what other people think and how they came to those conclusions.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 06:29:41 AM
Everyone knows my stance already and how naive I think anyone who trusts their life to a service is. It isn't that these services even may just up and go out of business so much as it is someone has complete control over everything you own and you have absolutely no legal recourse against abuse because you've signed a TOS that gives away all your rights. There are horror stories all over about people who have done nothing wrong but have all their privileges removed. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is so much a consumer as to blind themselves to this shit deserves whatever they may end up getting.

This is the way things are going, no doubt, which is the argument so many love to use... even I have had to succumb to some degree just because content that I want is often not available anywhere else. But look at the e-book clusterfuck... crazy price waggling, DRM, compatibility issues. And everyone bitches now because Steam isn't the only online service for games. They liked it before they needed 12 programs to deal with all of their digital purchases, but why did they think it was going to be any different? You don't have a single store that sells you everything, and if you do, you have a monopoly and it's a very, very bad thing.

But people are fucking morons. They shop at Wal-Mart, they drive local business into the ground in the name of convenience. People are the laziest fucking beings that exist and will always, if given the option, take the path of least resistance, even when it means giving up their rights. This is why the country we live in is falling apart, a far cry from the strong and worthy thing it once was.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 06:47:40 AM
Maybe some of us think forums are meant for expressing thoughts and opinions?  I don't know, what do you think?  Discuss.

Do you think it's OK for these companies to tell you how and when to use what you buy?  Can it be called "buying" when you need to ask permission every time to use what you paid for?  Is it yours if you can't even access it unless you do whatever they tell you at their whim?  Is it only getting worse for me, or perhaps for you as well?  With over 30 years of perspective, it should be no surprise that my answers to all of those are negative (including the last, where "yes" is negative).

Expressing thoughts and opinions or copying and pasting from your clip board of auto responses on every gaming thread that has a snippet of DRM and digital distribution in it? I prefer the former. Btw, this thread isnt even necessary because every person on this board is well aware of your stance because its been told a thousand times over so I guess we can beat on the dead horse again.... if you really want to.

Video games are just that, video games. I spend lots of time with them and thoroughly enjoy them. Its a hobby but I don't have a passionate stance on where the industry is heading. Much like W7RE has said, I enjoy buying on Steam for the convenience, my quote "ownership" of said games I am perfectly fine with. Gone are the days of hunting down saves and searching through file directories to patch. And if I somehow lost those games from some catastrophe whether it be global or personal, then I have bigger things on my mind than video games. As for the future, I hope physical copies of games cease to exist, even on consoles, let everything get tossed on to the cloud.

It sometimes baffles me at how vehement you are on making Steam and other DD platforms so anti-consumer. I can understand that you would prefer the physical copy but digital copies are not your enemy, even if it requires a connection. I'm sure you have dozens of PC games you can't even play anymore due to OS incompatibility, and if you can, you have to jump through dozens of hoops to get it to work again.

Anyway, Im not going to delve into how PC indie games are also thriving on these platforms, I'll just throw that in as a perk of what came with all this.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 07:10:02 AM
Ahem, you can't compare a DRM-related thread to broken record when even I haven't chimed in with a rant on DRM, often bitching about regional restrictions! How dare you, sir? I throw down my gauntlet to you! Have at thee!

(http://www.computescotland.com/images/FvFRMHMHhRn0LgDnaGLg0ci07w.jpg)

We duel at dawn.

Good day, sir.



I said GOOD DAY!
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 07:51:17 AM
Regional restrictions are crap. I don't think many are going to argue that one, X - that you can't buy a game b/c you live in a region the game's not available in. WTH? Problem is - there's too many different copyright laws in different countries; different game rating boards [PEGI in European; the Australian board; ESRB in USA; etc]; politics; distribution rights [example - Deep Silver has rights to Sacred 2 license and European rights to publish it, yet CDV published S2 in USA]; and other stupid bullcrap involved. Also, what's also annoying is said game is on sale on let's say Origin in USA, but this same awesome deal isn't available in your country. WTH? It's not like Origin had to literally ship a game overseas on disc for you guys - they've got it on their servers! Or say I've seen D2D throw a UK deal, but it's not active in the USA [which is not often] - annoying. It's not like these deals

About DRM - we PC gamers put up w/ A LOT of stuff. From always online DRM (UbiSoft), install limit DRM (EA), Steam client is required to play said game, etc etc. I think I've gotten to the point where I'll tolerate a certain amount of DRM that I probably never would've, some 5 or 6 years ago. Plus - if we really are that worried about DRM, ain't that what the newest DMCA changes and game-cracks are for? [shrug]

It's really nice when you got game companies like say Larian who have had talks w/ their publisher about possibly getting DRM removal for Div 2: DKS Edition green-lit (http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=447114&#Post447114) and CD Projekt, who have this Anti-DRM stance. I wish we had more of that, in this day era.

Quote
It sometimes baffles me at how vehement you are on making Steam and other DD platforms so anti-consumer. I can understand that you would prefer the physical copy but digital copies are not your enemy, even if it requires a connection. I'm sure you have dozens of PC games you can't even play anymore due to OS incompatibility, and if you can, you have to jump through dozens of hoops to get it to work again.

Anyway, Im not going to delve into how PC indie games are also thriving on these platforms, I'll just throw that in as a perk of what came with all this.
Yeah, games like Vampire: Bloodlines can be a real bitch to get running on Win 7 - especially the Steam version b/c you can get other odd Steam errors. Just look at since their newest $5 deal for this game currently, where people jumped all over this deal and are having a really tough time trying to get it going and been expressing their frustration and asking for help like crazy on VTMBL Steam boards. (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=229)

I wish Steam would NOT force Steam client-program as a requirement to run their games. I wish it was more like Origin and Impulse - that the client's there basically to download your game and update it, if need be. But, hey - it is what it is. [shrug]

You're right about Indie game on Steam, though - that's one of the things Steam going go for it, is its selection of Indie games is nice. I don't think we'd ever see very ambitious-looking titles like say EYE ever get greenlighted here by some Triple-A USA publisher like EA.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 08:34:17 AM
Of course I'm vehement.  This is something I feel strongly about.  Emotion is sometimes infectious, and if I can wake up one complacent consumer to what's really happening, all of my time and effort will have been worthwhile.  What I don't understand at all is the emotional defense of the abusive trends.  There's nothing wrong with digital distribution.  I have availed myself of it with generally satisfying results (e.g., Borderlands, Fable 2, Darksiders, multiple XBLA offerings).  I get convenience (no trips to the store, no waiting days for delivery, no having to insert discs into the Xbox) in exchange for the risk that the HDD will fry and I won't be able to access XBL for whatever reason.  I'm willing to take that risk.  I see nothing wrong with it.  But if MS all of a sudden popped up a message on my screen telling me I can't play my games unless I jump through some arbitrary new hoops, they'd lose my patronage in a heartbeat.  If they forced me to be online to play, they'd have me by the balls anytime the company and I had a disagreement over anything.  That my be fine by you, but not me; and I'll be damned if I'm going to be quiet about it as long as there's the remotest chance that my emphatic warnings will benefit someone.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 08:44:59 AM
Of course I'm vehement.  This is something I feel strongly about.  Emotion is sometimes infectious, and if I can wake up one complacent consumer to what's really happening, all of my time and effort will have been worthwhile.  What I don't understand at all is the emotional defense of the abusive trends.  There's nothing wrong with digital distribution.  I have availed myself of it with generally satisfying results (e.g., Borderlands, Fable 2, Darksiders, multiple XBLA offerings).  I get convenience (no trips to the store, no waiting days for delivery, no having to insert discs into the Xbox) in exchange for the risk that the HDD will fry and I won't be able to access XBL for whatever reason.  I'm willing to take that risk.  I see nothing wrong with it.  But if MS all of a sudden popped up a message on my screen telling me I can't play my games unless I jump through some arbitrary new hoops, they'd lose my patronage in a heartbeat.  If they forced me to be online to play, they'd have me by the balls anytime the company and I had a disagreement over anything.  That my be fine by you, but not me; and I'll be damned if I'm going to be quiet about it as long as there's the remotest chance that my emphatic warnings will benefit someone.
Enlighten me about consoles a little bit.

What would you do, if your X360 HDD fries? Sure, you can re-download your stuff to another 360, as long as Live is up. But, where do you guys back-up just your game alone? I like putting my PC games back-ups on DVD disc(s), in case my PC HDD fries or something happens to it. Can you back up your entire game files on say portable X360 memory sticks so you can reinstall them?

Can you guys hook up your X360 to your PC and then copy those files from your 360 onto a DVD disc(s) or something?

I'm not a big fan of MMO's b/c if the game's unplugged, you got yourself a coaster. But, honestly - we don't live forever, right? So, life and games are basically all rentals, then.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 09:49:26 AM
Geez, sorry. I'll try keep my seething hatred of Steam in check.

Quote
As for the future, I hope physical copies of games cease to exist, even on consoles, let everything get tossed on to the cloud.
This, however, I do not understand. So YOU don't want to buy physical copies anymore, fine. I do. As it is I can't think of any modern PC game thats only sold at retail, but I can think of quite a few only sold DD. So what do you care if I buy a hard copy? No one is forcing you to.

My ideal world? Games are offered on as many services as possible. I want every game to be on Steam, Gamers Gate, Impulse, D2D, retail, etc. I don't want to be forced into using a service I don't like, for whatever reasons I may not like them. So the fact that Impulse will sell me a Steamworks game doesn't fix anything because it forces me to use a service that treats me like shit.

And just to give you an idea of how poorly Steam works for me:
Xessive gifted me a copy of Terraria (thanks dude!) during the summer sale. I got home from my trip and decided to download it. We were going to the bookstore for a couple hours so I decided to let Steam download it while I was out. The game was only 18MB and on any other download service or manager that should take no more than 2 hours to complete. I came back 5 hours later, surely it completed long ago! Nope. Steam tells me it downloaded 45MB of data and that only 3 out of the 18MB for Terraria was complete. That was the only game it was downloading! I just....how?

I know, Im on dialup and no one caters to me anymore. I don't expect them to. But is it too much to ask that a download service...works? I don't download 5GB games on this thing, its a 20MB indie game. I download that kind of shit ALL THE TIME! Why is it only Steam that has trouble doing so? Pyro, you remember when you gave me the L4D2 files. How I played the game fine all week and then an update was available and Steam would delete 4GB of game data and wanted me to redownload it. Its just retarded.

Is it any wonder that I'm disappointed and annoyed when a game I'm interested in announces it requires Steam? Who knows, maybe the new content delivery method Steam is rolling out will fix a lot of these problems. But until then I'm going to be disappointed and annoyed, and thats before we get into this "Valve, may I?" of asking permission to play something I paid for.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 10:13:57 AM
Enlighten me about consoles a little bit.

What would you do, if your X360 HDD fries? Sure, you can re-download your stuff to another 360, as long as Live is up. But, where do you guys back-up just your game alone? I like putting my PC games back-ups on DVD disc(s), in case my PC HDD fries or something happens to it. Can you back up your entire game files on say portable X360 memory sticks so you can reinstall them?

Can you guys hook up your X360 to your PC and then copy those files from your 360 onto a DVD disc(s) or something?

I'm not a big fan of MMO's b/c if the game's unplugged, you got yourself a coaster. But, honestly - we don't live forever, right? So, life and games are basically all rentals, then.

Yeah, I can redownload everything I've bought should my HDD fry.  (This is independent of the Xbox unit; the console frying wouldn't much matter, because I can move the HDD to another one.  The only problem with that is that licenses are dongled 2 ways: your console's unique ID and your XBL account.  In order to use your HDD content on another Xbox, you have to either be logged into XBL, or transfer the licenses.  License transfer is a bit of a pain, as you have to do it game by game.  But it moves along fairly quickly.  I've had to do that twice already, thanks to RRoDs.)  My comment about risk refers to a situation where my HDD fails and XBL is unavailable, whether temporarily because it's down, or permanently because I pissed off Microsoft or they no longer support the 360 (down the long road).

As for backups, for the past year or so MS has moved from proprietary memory cards to USB flash drives for storage.  The format is standard FAT, so they are compatible with PCs.  There is software out there which can read the Xbox files and back them up to PC.  Flash drive support is up to 16 GB, plenty to back up any game files from the HDD (including installed games themselves).  The only rub here at the moment is that the files are keyed somehow to the individual flash drive.  If it dies, all those PC backups become worthless.  They can be copied back to a different flash drive, but the Xbox system will not accept its contents.  I imagine someday this will be addressed by some enterprising soul.  In the meantime, the best advice is to back up saves to a flash drive or 2, and depend on XBL to redownload the games.

Everything is a rental?  I suppose if you want to go to extremes, even our bodies, our very lives, are rentals.  Looking at things from a less eternal perspective, I see a big difference between rental, ownership, and whatever the hell it is that the Apples and Valves of the world are pushing.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: W7RE on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 10:27:34 AM
I was under the impression that you could migrate your account from one Xbox to another and all your licences would come with it. Yes, you can simply recover your account to the new Xbox and play anything you want, as long as you're online. But I thought the license transfer thing was a per account thing, not a per game thing. I haven't needed to replace my Xbox though, so I don't know first hand. I did replace my HDD once, but I had access to the old one, and my new one came with a data transfer cable and disc, which transferred my license(s) during the process.



Really, the only thing you might lose by switching Xboxes or losing access to one, is stuff you don't own. You can download something to YOUR Xbox that is owned by a friend's account, then play it all you want on your own account. You just can't download it again with an account that didn't purchase it.


Oh yea, also, XBL Indie games. They require you to be online so they can bypass the ESRB:
Quote
Online Rating Notice
Online-enabled games carry the notice "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB." This notice warns those who intend to play the game online about possible exposure to chat (text, audio, video) or other types of user-generated content (e.g., maps, skins) that have not been considered in the ESRB rating assignment.
Source (http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp)
That shouldn't really apply to a game that has no online interactions but requires a connection, but I guess it does anyway. That's why MS does it, so they don't have to wait for the ESRB to go through every game that comes across the XBLI service.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 10:43:26 AM
Yeah, I know that's why they do it.  It also opens the door to pulling a game right out of your system, should some legal issue arise (like hidden pornography or use of unlicensed material).

Well, if there's a way to retrieve licenses all at once, I'd love to know it.  The process I had to go through involves first going here (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Support/LicenseMigration/Home), then going down your full list of games on the Xbox, telling it to acquire each one.  So you select a game, it starts to download, realizes you already have it, and progress jumps ahead to 100%.  (Rinse and repeat.)

Edit:  I realize this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqxyRIany-g) is old, but it's essentially what I had to go through.  Skip to around 2:20 to see what I mean about grabbing each game individually.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 11:09:43 AM
And just to give you an idea of how poorly Steam works for me:
Xessive gifted me a copy of Terraria (thanks dude!) during the summer sale. I got home from my trip and decided to download it. We were going to the bookstore for a couple hours so I decided to let Steam download it while I was out. The game was only 18MB and on any other download service or manager that should take no more than 2 hours to complete. I came back 5 hours later, surely it completed long ago! Nope. Steam tells me it downloaded 45MB of data and that only 3 out of the 18MB for Terraria was complete. That was the only game it was downloading! I just....how?

Well, there's the problem - you're downloading from Steam during the Crazy Steam Sales (Summer, Spring, X-Mas, etc). Same goes for a BIG-name title release, as well. These are ALWAYS a terrible time to download games from them b/c everybody is using the services and eating up bandwidth and causing major traffic on the site. I was literally getting drop-outs; pauses; slow speeds [think like - 1 to 300 kbs per sec]; and so on, during the Steam Summer Sale w/ my fast Internet connection!

What to do, if you want to DL stuff during a Crazy Steam Sale or a BIG-name title release?

Are you patient? Wait until sale's over or a few days after it's over, is an obvious one. Hopefully by that time, everybody's done w/ the overload of traffic.

If you're impatient - try downloading during odd hours during Steam sales - literally, I was getting my best DL's of 2.0-2.5 MB per sec during early mornings like at 7am [my time zone] in the morning.
Since they have improved the structure of Steam - I can bank now 3 MB per sec on Steam; especially when traffic is low.

Yeah, sucks you're stuck w/ dial-up, though. It'd be nice if it was offered to you, in your area. That's just not good, in this VERY Internet-driven gaming world. :(

EDIT:
@Cobra

Very informative stuff on how the X360 works w/ back-ups and all of that stuff. TYVM for enlightening me. :)
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: W7RE on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 11:26:29 AM
The more time goes by without Idol having access to high speed internet, the more baffled I become.

I probably would have moved by now if at all possible.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 11:48:47 AM
D, the sale was long over by the time I attempted to download it.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 02:12:07 PM
D, the sale was long over by the time I attempted to download it.
I had enough of 56K dial-up back when Far Cry 1 had that 150 MB patch download. That was the tip of the iceberg for me to move to DSL. Then, after GTA4 PC took over 10 hours to DL w/ DSL [about a year ago], it was time for me to move again to something faster.

I don't know why they don't have High Speed Internet in your area. Why won't they offer it where you live? Given the size of games and the crazy amount I buy and how dependent gaming nowadays is on the Net, I really couldn't live w/out High Speed.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 03:32:23 PM
For me, I don't understand how people don't get how uncontrolled and screwy all this shit is. You have all these eBooks you can only use with a certain reader, all this talk about "licenses" for shit you paid good money for, all this game stuff where you buy a game then can't use an expansion or something because you can't buy it from the service you bought the original game from, or the versions are incompatible or whatever, then patches coming at different times for different "platforms"... when you aren't even fucking developing for different platforms! PC is the platform, Steam is just a fucking delivery service, and yet the patching is so often staggered between non-Steam and Steam versions. This shit is chaotic, unregulated, and stupid. Pyro doesn't give a fuck because he doesn't use anything but Steam to my knowledge, but with all the exclusivity deals and games getting pulled from services, and downloading from one thing when it requires the use of another... holy Jesus. I don't know how anyone can be on board with this clusterfuck and it absolutely blows my mind to hear anyone say it's fine. Almost none of what's happened has been much of a surprise to me. The only thing that continues to surprise me is how fucking lousy Steam is. I always had my doubts about the legitimacy of the program, but even then I still expected Valve to do a much better job than they have to date. Otherwise... I won't say I saw everything coming, but I saw problems, and a lot of my initial worries have turned out exactly as I feared.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 04:00:56 PM
The worst part is its going to be very hard to fix the situation because now we have a lot of brand/platform loyalty deeply ingrained in the users.

Ideally, there would be only one version of any game. DD stores sell you this one version of the game, you download it, install, play. Each DD platform would then fight over extra features to attract users, from friends lists, in-game overlays, automatic patch downloading, sales/discounts, loyalty programs (like GamersGate Blue Coins), etc. None of those things requires you to be locked to a single vendor (except the loyalty program, but thats not game specific).
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 05:12:32 PM
Yeah, exactly. That's my take as well and I don't understand why we aren't there. Because whether you trust or mistrust DD as a whole, that remains a pretty bad issue.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 10:42:45 PM
I guess everyone here looks too far into "what if" scenarios and less on how streamlined these platforms have made PC games easier to play. You can argue it's a clusterfuck now, but it was still a clusterfuck back then. I spent hours on PC games just to get them to play, and if you werent PC savvy, then I wouldn't even recommend touching them. Not all games were like that but there have been many with serious issues.

Steam has worked for me, so I guess I'm one of the lucky, blessed few in the world that can benefit the service. I'm basing most of my opinion on that experience. I'm not worried that steam is going to vanish or my games are going to be taken away because I at least realize that Valve has some small inkling of motivation to please consumers instead of fuck them.

Anyway, this was never my point in the first place. I already know where everyone stands on this issue. So I'm just going to let everyone live and let live. I apologize for my brash comments, it's just I grow tired of the same reiterations on the same subject and I realized its partly my fault since I barely post on here anymore. The community has become less game centric since we've all grown older and gaming has become less important in our lives. I still wish to discuss gaming news with you all but its hard to do when only a handful of us actually make conversation so the same well established opinions tend to show up again. But I still enjoy a good discussion, even though I came off as a total ass in this one. Im going to try and make a bigger effort in posting stuff that I feel is interesting instead letting these things get to me.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 11:20:13 PM
/me hugs pyro

But one final point I want to make about myself. I know I bitch about Steam here, probably too much. But this is practically the only place I can do it as every other forum on the internet is a Steam love-in and any deviation from "Valve is perfect, all hail Valve" is met with a bunch of responses by the Steam Defense Force. That grates on my nerves and I just tend to vent about it here. I'll try tone it down.



PS, fuck Steam.

PPS, holy shit, IRC style emotes work on the boards!
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, July 31, 2011, 11:24:53 PM
It comes down to a balance. Much like the PC versus Mac argument, how much freedom of choice are you willing to compromise to worry less about compatibility (since Macs are streamlined into set prefabs as opposed to PC's which are essentially custom-built).

What I like about the Steam model is its convenience: all my games are obtainable from one location, I'm not bound to one specific region (unlike PSN, Xbox Live, etc.), and its social integration is great i.e. invite friend to game, join a friend's game etc. All great assuming I have a good internet connection to support it.

Where does Steam fumble? Two main areas that I have had serious issues with: offline mode, which is fickle and works haphazardly; and shoddy releases of certain games which do not function properly, it happens all too often that I grab a game only to find that Valve have done nothing to ensure that it runs properly. My contrast to the latter point is GOG.com, who make sure that any game they provide will work in a current OS. I understand that certain technical game issues are not Steam's responsibility but when a product is made available through a certain outlet you can't help but feel that they should have made sure that said product is at least functioning.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: K-man on Monday, August 01, 2011, 07:39:16 AM
It has only been recently that I've used Steam for anything more than a Half-Life 2 launcher.  I've had some real issues with the service.  I don't like how you can't unregister a game once you've registered it.  I think the layout could use some significant improvement.  However, keeping my games in one centralized location and updating them as necessary is great.  Cloud saves are great.  Steam isn't perfect, but they were the first to the game and were able to do it well enough to keep everyone hooked.  Of course coupling it with a game everyone was clamoring for certainly didn't hurt anything.

Long story short is that this is where gaming is headed.  It's a business and companies are always looking for better and more efficient ways of taking consumer's money.  At some point in the future we're not going to own our games (or any media, most likely).  It sucks, but what are you going to do?  Stop consuming it altogether?
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, August 01, 2011, 09:20:58 AM
Stopping consuming it altogether would never happen.  It's a matter of how far consumers are willing to be pushed before they conclude that the goods they get aren't worth the prices they pay.  As a bloc, consumers would hold all the power.  But they never act as one.  Sadly, piracy is best reality check for publishers.  Push consumers hard enough, and that's where they'll go, because it's their only recourse individually.

I'm not opposed to DD.  (I'm more for it now than ever.)  I'm opposed to DD being used to control me as a gamer.  Some of my hardline stance comes from age, undoubtedly.  The years spent with an idea of what is fair are too long to dismiss now.  But I would hope even young people still forming new opinions would react indignantly to lousy deals.  Paying for something that can be taken away from you arbitrarily is a lousy deal.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 01, 2011, 10:06:51 AM
I understand Pyro's frustration, but it's sort of the same deal for me as idol. And for me, my experience with Steam has been terrible from day one. I never had as many problems with PC games in general as I've had with Steam across multiple systems. That isn't to say it's never worked, but I never cared about downloading and applying a patch manually. Not once have I ever found Steam a convenient alternative to just doing it myself, and I disagree entirely with Pyro's opinion about Valve having some need to care about the individual. They don't and they've proven it a jillion times. Horror stories are everywhere. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it couldn't. I will never trust a company to take care of my belongings for me, especially when they're extremely huge and extremely rich. Valve doesn't give a flying fuck about you or anyone else.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: K-man on Monday, August 01, 2011, 10:17:25 AM
Ultimately no game company gives a flying fuck about you.  In the end they all just want your dollar. 

If they pretend to care, it's to get you to buy into their product so they can become large enough to not give a fuck about you.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cools! on Monday, August 01, 2011, 10:32:50 AM
I've never bought a game online. I'm very averse to using credit cards in general, and because making the physical trip kind of prevents me from going crazy buying games. Beyond that, I don't really have a problem with the multitude of different services and being bound to a particular system and its rules. Our whole computing is bound; hardware, platform, OS, etc. Everything is transitive. There are dozens of games in my closet that I can no longer play, and it makes no difference if it's a physical or a digital copy.

Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 01, 2011, 12:29:23 PM
I think you guys must be smoking some shit. I don't think there's a single game in my library of over 700 that I couldn't play if I wanted to, one way or another. It may take a little work getting something older to go, and there may be a few that were just so obscure or so badly made that it's too much of an issue to get them going now, but I can't think of any game I've wanted to play in the last 15 years that I couldn't get to work if I tried hard enough.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: ren on Monday, August 01, 2011, 01:01:11 PM
*cares*

For old times' sake.

Both sides of this argument make sense. I care quite a bit about my music collection which means that I'll buy it rather than license it, I wont put up with any amount of DRM and I'm willing to pay more money to satisfy all of those requirements. I fully intend to have access to all the music I've bought in my life so far in another twenty years.

At the same time, I just don't care about games and books as much. I get a lot of satisfaction out of both artforms but being locked into somebody's service doesn't bother me. I'm paying for the most convenient method of consumption and I'm not willing to pay any sort of premium for ownership. If in ten years I can't access products I've purchased, whatever, I paid less money in the present knowing this might happen.

Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cools! on Monday, August 01, 2011, 01:12:24 PM
You're missing my point: shit changes.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 01, 2011, 01:23:07 PM
Which is your personal preference, Ren. And that's cool. I honestly don't care about other people having their preference satisfied, only that there seems to be a notion that my own preference is just outmoded and goddamn why don't I just get with the times. That shit, quite frankly, can get shoved right up the ass of anyone that spouts it. I'm not "old". I'm not even 30. You can't call this a pure expression of age. It's an expression of value and of the relationship of money to goods, and IMO, most people have no concept of this anymore.

I think it's safe to say that a ridiculously large number of people in the US have no concept of the value of money, of saving, of financial responsibility. I think that I'm absolutely horrible when it comes to a lot of that stuff, frankly, and yet even after having lost a lot of money through a painful marriage with a single income, divorce, and now unemployment, I still have no debt and a year and a half's income (roughly) saved from my former job. Some of that was luck, as my grandfather left some money which helped cushion me against the considerable losses of the divorce, but for fuck's sake, most young people are living paycheck to paycheck, blowing money on games and books and movies when they don't even have anything saved and may even be in debt from loans or just poor use of credit. And yet even with all that, they still have no desire to protect something they considered worth spending their paycheck on. I don't fucking get it. At all.

But as much as shit may change, it only changes because people enable it. Just because it changes doesn't mean it's good. The world has been changing in a lot of ways for several decades. Do we have a lot of hope that those changes were for the better now that people are teetering on the edge of social and economic collapse all over the globe? A lot of people have the guts to look back and realize how much stupidity was allowed to go on, how many destructive forces weren't shut down when they should have been. But true to human form, many others just continue to think everything's going to be fine, and it's going to be interesting to see how they react when faced with the realization that the systems they relied upon no longer exist.

I heard somewhere that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Sounds pretty accurate to me. Give up freedom, give up control, let someone else hold all the fucking keys to your life, expect to be taken care of. It's never happened that way and never will.

People throw "Jesus, it's just videogames!" at me all the time, but the arts and entertainment industries do huge things for the economy and drive so much. No one seems to realize that these things start movements. change modes of thought. It's not just fucking videogames. It's the potential for government and corporate control of everything you do, of the way you're allowed to own property. If we throw ownership out the window here, what's next? What will we be leasing twenty years from now? What will our kids be deemed unfit to own and control of their own volition, instead renting it from some governing body that profits from it? Call it an overreaction if you like, tell me I'm blowing smoke up your ass, but remember that you can't get a different result from allowing the same thing to happen. If you give up your control because you're too fucking lazy to accept the privilege, rest assured that no one who takes control for you is going to care when you start complaining that you're being mistreated.

EDIT - Sorry, kept adding stuff. I'm on a roll. And pissed off.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: idolminds on Monday, August 01, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Geez Que, its just videogames. Why don't you get with the times?
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cools! on Monday, August 01, 2011, 01:42:13 PM
Mmk.. someone's angry.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: PyroMenace on Monday, August 01, 2011, 10:08:10 PM
I'm all for defending video games as a hobby, just dont let it make you angry and miserable. You know, like the rest of the Internet.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Xessive on Monday, August 01, 2011, 11:02:35 PM
Hmm, how defensive would we get if the same happened to books and films (which already looks like the direction they're heading)?
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, August 02, 2011, 06:10:02 AM
I wouldn't get very defensive.  In fact I'm more apt to just want to pay to stream a movie now than actually own one.  I've bought so many DVDs and Blu-Rays that I either haven't watched or just watched once.  And a large volume of books take up a lot of space and are a bitch and a half to move.  I know some won't agree with me, but in the case of both formats I just care to own what I truly enjoy.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, August 02, 2011, 07:22:38 AM
I agree about movies.  A few I want to have on my shelf, as commercial DVD releases.  For the rest, some sort of limited access will do.  Books, though, I don't know.  I'd rather have physical copies that I can shelve, loan to others, or give away.  I've never much gotten into ebooks, though I will seek one out occasionally if I'm somewhat curious about it (but not curious enough to go to a bookstore).

I can easily see this stuff-is-licensed-not-owned paradigm forced to the nth degree on ebooks as well.  Don't you dare loan that new novel to a friend.  Let him pay to read it too.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, August 02, 2011, 07:36:05 AM
I've just moved books so many times.  And a majority of what I own has been read once and put away.  I've got nice books that I want to keep, but I'm really thinking about parting with the rest of my collection.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, August 02, 2011, 03:00:06 PM
ArsTechnica - How To Ruin Your PC Port in 5 Ways. (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/08/ars-guide-how-to-ruin-your-pc-port-in-five-easy-steps.ars)
Seems appropriate for this thread.

Quote
Add customer-hostile DRM

PC gamers openly attacked Spore when it was released with activation limits, but Ubisoft has to be the king of annoying paying customers. It has recently been announced that Driver: San Francisco will require the player to be online to play the game.

Ubisoft claims this is a win for the company. It has seen "a clear reduction in piracy of our titles which required a persistent online connection, and from that point of view the requirement is a success," a company representative told PC Gamer. The always-on requirement has been dropped from other games from Ubisoft in the past after the players complained, but it looks like it may be here to stay.

It's also worth pointing out that Ubisoft's servers have been hacked in the past, making certain games unplayable. Ubisoft may claim that piracy has been diminished, and we certainly can't argue with that assertion given that the company doesn't share usage data, but this is bad news for people who just want to play the games and don't have their systems hooked up to an always-on Internet connection.

SecuROM, activation limits, and always-on Internet connection requirements—there are multiple ways companies can choose to punish customers who pay for their games. In the past we've even talked to soldiers who are kept from playing certain games by these strategies.

Diablo 3 will also require a persistent Internet connection, and Blizzard's Rob Pardo agrees that it's kind of a pain in the butt. "I want to play Diablo 3 on my laptop in a plane, but, well, there are other games to play for times like that," he told 1up.

Just so we're clear, when you're bored on a plane, and you have your laptop, and you want to play the game you bought in order to fight boredom, Blizzard's official recommendation is that you play someone else's game. That's pride, right there.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, August 02, 2011, 05:05:26 PM
Quote
Just so we're clear, when you're bored on a plane, and you have your laptop, and you want to play the game you bought in order to fight boredom, Blizzard's official recommendation is that you play someone else's game. That's pride, right there.

Best thing I've read all week.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 03, 2011, 12:42:44 PM
Welcome to the horrible future. (http://pc.ign.com/articles/118/1185726p1.html)
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 03, 2011, 02:56:58 PM
Welcome to the horrible future. (http://pc.ign.com/articles/118/1185726p1.html)
I have no problem w/ buying digitally, given how much LESS this often costs. Most people have DVD, BR, or extra HDD's for back-up storage - so this ain't the issue. The kicker is - you need a fast Internet connection or this whole thing is just no good to you.

My problem comes w/ DLC-mania. This includes the poor pricing of DLC and often there's no "ALL DLC package" after they're all done w/ it. Steam at least gets most of this right - as usually they discount game + ALL DLC at once and there's an option usually to "Buy ALL DLC", if you already own the original box.

My other problem comes w/ DRM. Any sort of C&C4, Diablo 3, or UbiSoft-style persistent online requirement is just irritating for games that have what feels like games that could be played alone in a single-player mode. I don't mind the one-time requires online activation as much anymore, but still - a game been around the block and done w/ its huge amount of sales at high prices, PULL THE DRM. There's no use for it anymore. About Steam - once a game's activated on your PC, there's no real need for their client to be required to run in the background. Origin doesn't do this, now does it? NO.

I really don't know what to think about making user buy SP separate, MP separate, or the entire product. I have a few games like say MOH 2010, I never even looked at the MP. Dead Space 2's MP wasn't that hot...only b/c of the lack of maps. So, actually that's an interesting thought.

Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 03, 2011, 04:11:03 PM
RockPaperShotgun - All of you EA Origin users, you might want to be aware of this.... (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/03/origin-to-delete-inactive-accounts/)

Quote
A number of readers have written in to express concern about this clause in the terms of service for Electronic Arts’ new digital distribution, Origin.

Here’s the key bit:
“If you have not used your Entitlements or Account for twenty four (24) months or more and your Account has associated Entitlements, your Entitlements will expire and your Account may be cancelled for non-use.” The “entitlements” it’s talking about are “paid and free downloadable content, unlockable content, digital and/or virtual assets, rights of use tied to unlock keys or codes, serial codes and/or online authentication of any kind, in-game achievements and virtual or fictional currency.”


We’ve asked Electronic Arts for clarification on this, but it suggests you might lose DLC, achievements, and even your account if you don’t log on for two years. Not exactly the kind of permanence we’ve come to expect from certain online services, is it? I can think of quite a few services I’ve not logged into for two years, and I’d still expect all my stuff to be there. Is anyone aware of similar clauses in other distribution systems or online game services?

Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: scottws on Wednesday, August 03, 2011, 06:28:24 PM
Well I hate EA anyway, so it is not like I was about to use Origin anyway, but that really seals the deal right there.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, August 03, 2011, 09:26:44 PM
Bleak. The future is looking kinda iffy.

That's a dick-move from EA. Does that inactivity deadline include logging into the EA site or any of the Battlefield games (it's the same account)?
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 04, 2011, 08:22:44 PM
RockPaperShotgun -> EA responds to the ordeal about Origin account deletion for inactivity. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/04/eas-comment-on-origin-account-deletion/)

Quote
We’ve had word back from EA regarding their peculiarly-worded terms of service for Origin.

Senior director of corporate communications John Reseburg explains: “The Origin terms of service are designed to protect against misuse of the Origin system. No Origin user who has paid entitlements and/or downloaded games will have their account cancelled or games expired due to extended non-use. The term regarding account cancellation for non-use is designed to guard against creation of non-active accounts for inappropriate reasons.”

So that’s good. As long as you weren’t intending to create non-active accounts for inappropriate reasons, anyway.

So, why the hell wasn't that included reasoning ALSO included in this section of the EULA? [shrug]
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: idolminds on Monday, August 08, 2011, 10:39:10 PM
Didn't want to make a thread for this because...well I wanted to update you on my adventures in downloading Terraria. Spoilered just so you dont have to read it if you dont want.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, August 09, 2011, 05:53:37 AM
Yeah, there should be a mechanism to detect if you have various prerequisites already installed (and the math should be right too).  That said, it isn't too different from games on disc.  They would contain the .NET installers too.  I wonder too if a game was on Impulse that required .NET if it would have you download the installers.  I bet it would.

Do you have a cell phone? Have you considered tethering? I know that mobile internet isn't very good for online gaming, but you could use it for your downloads and it would solve a lot of your pain.

As far as the Origin EULA, I don't care what EA says they mean, I care what the EULA actually says and doesn't say.  If that's the case that they wont delete accounts with purchased games, I want to see that in the EULA.  Until then my 10 foot pole will be in use.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, August 09, 2011, 07:14:30 AM
So the online installers are dumping everything on you across your paid bandwidth (which for many includes caps) before applying any logic to see if you need it?  That's wasteful, stupid, and it needs to be fixed.  It's not at all like having unneeded files on a boxed retail disc.  It's a very different process, and it needs to be designed accordingly.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, August 09, 2011, 08:02:20 AM
What Cobra said. That's just plain foolishness.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, August 09, 2011, 03:42:16 PM
When I purchased Fallout: New Vegas - Old World Blues DLC the other day from Steam, Steam at first was telling me I had 0 GB installed for FO: New Vegas.
Keep in mind, I already had FO: NV + first two DLC's [Lonesome Hearts + Dead Money] all installed on my HDD - so, WTF?
Though, a few moments later, the installed number suddenly changed itself to 7.xx GB installed and it began working to DL the approximate 600+ GB for OWB.

From what I was reading on Steam (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041093), if you get a problem where you already have something installed and need to DL only the DLC or new update, though Steam continues to re-force you to DL everything...
Close Steam out completely, then restart Steam - it should fix the calculation for you automatically.

Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Xessive on Tuesday, August 09, 2011, 10:42:29 PM
That happened with me for New Vegas. I restarted Steam and it still showed that it needed to download a full 8GB but the download rate was like 3000 KB/s, which means that Steam was just reading and registering the folder contents but somehow convinced itself they were being re-downloaded.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 08:15:37 AM
I guess this sorta fits in this thread about "gaming trends".

Tim Willits of id Software thinks always-on internet requirements are A-OK! (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-10-id-software-on-always-on-internet-debate)
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 08:52:02 AM
Quote
"Diablo 3 will make everyone else accept the fact you have to be connected," he [Tim Willits] said. "If you have a juggernaut, you can make change. I'm all for that. If we could force people to always be connected when you play the game, and then have that be acceptable, awesome."

"If we could force people to ______________, and then have that be acceptable, awesome."

Any sentence that starts with forcing people to do something and ends with "and then have that be acceptable" is generally a red flag for unacceptable behaviour.

Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 09:21:50 AM
If he's right, my current disdain for PC gaming will become permanent.  If consoles go that way too, or disappear in favor of telephones, I think my backlog will keep me entertained for the rest of my lucid life.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 02:41:48 PM
I guess this sorta fits in this thread about "gaming trends".

Tim Willits of id Software thinks always-on internet requirements are A-OK! (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-10-id-software-on-always-on-internet-debate)

"Always online DRM" is NOT acceptable for SINGLE PLAYER PORTIONS of games - b/c they are meant to be played ALONE.
End of story.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 03:26:40 PM
Here's another thing that is making me "shake my head." (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/10/steam-trading-beta-lets-you-exchange-in-game-items-for-games/)

Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 03:26:49 PM
If he's right, my current disdain for PC gaming will become permanent.  If consoles go that way too, or disappear in favor of telephones, I think my backlog will keep me entertained for the rest of my lucid life.

I'm with you.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 01:17:22 AM
I'm beginning to think that these restrictive DRM measures aren't meant to prevent piracy, rather they seem more like an excuse to monitor the players.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: PyroMenace on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 04:04:44 AM
A constant connection should not be forced on players and Im not entirely sure why it's being pushed so hard. Offline single player is easy and user friendly. I think though in the case of Diablo 3, they want to push it so everyone can use the real money auction house for the obvious financial benefits. I'm still not sure what to think of the auction house stuff, I'd have to wait and see how that goes. As for having a constant connection, I doesn't bother me because ive always been online and it's weird, when I do lose Internet for a small time when there's ISP maintenance or something, I don't even bother playing any games. Maybe it's because I don't have any achievement syncing. I don't know.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 07:21:20 AM
Your offline achievements get synched next time you log on.

I was afraid of the Spring XBL update (feared to brick some DVD drives) so I pulled the ethernet cable from the back of my Xbox for a month.  Played Oblivion all that time without a single crash.  (So your box is busy with XBL even when you play solo, because the game doesn't behave that well when connected.)  That was sweet.  Completed all achievements on it too.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: scottws on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 07:27:48 AM
For me it all comes back to "I paid for your game, stop treating me like a criminal."  When the pirates have better game experiences than legitimate customers, there is a problem.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 08:37:03 AM
On the notorious flip side, if you're going to do the time, you may as well do the crime.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: PyroMenace on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 08:46:09 AM
On the notorious flip side, if you're going to do the time, you may as well do the crime.

Completely disagree. Piracy gets you no where.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: ren on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 11:34:01 AM
This mandatory online thing is bullshit. Does it actually work or is it easily cracked like the old cd checks?

Hopefully other industries don't take any notes. I find it strange how the relatively young and diverse games industry implements more draconian rules than pretty much every other source of media.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 11:40:25 AM
Next up, video!  You must be online to watch that new movie, even if you aren't streaming it.  New mandatory Bluray firmware could make it happen too.  (I.e., new discs could be made not to work w/o it.)
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 01:53:33 PM
Next up, video!  You must be online to watch that new movie, even if you aren't streaming it.  New mandatory Bluray firmware could make it happen too.  (I.e., new discs could be made not to work w/o it.)
That's sorta what happened with the first batch of Avatar Blur-Rays, you had to connect online for it to download an update which would allow the movie to play. For someone like me, that's not really a problem I know how to do it but I'm imagining if my parents bought it and settled in to watch the movie only to be disappointed that it's not working unless they do some intricate task.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 11, 2011, 06:07:56 PM
And I love how 90% of the people you talk to don't think this is a problem. It's the future, why the fuck are you so backward?

I can't wait for a nuclear war.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: Xessive on Friday, August 12, 2011, 02:18:50 AM
And I love how 90% of the people you talk to don't think this is a problem. It's the future, why the fuck are you so backward?

I can't wait for a nuclear war.
I know! It's such a piss-off!

"Hey, who needs Public Transportation we all have cars! Get with the program!" We don't all have cars, asshole.
Title: Re: Opinions re current revenue-seeking trends in the game industry
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 12, 2011, 03:51:29 PM
I'm beginning to think that these restrictive DRM measures aren't meant to prevent piracy, rather they seem more like an excuse to monitor the players.
I'll go one step further - I say it's BOTH; they're meant to stop piracy AND monitor players.

Piracy
Let's be real - piracy is a murderer and they're do all they can to get you to perceive that the legit version is the best version. I'm betting most people bought WOW b/c they had to, since the system was so closed.
 
If the only way to play is "always on", then you're stuck in what I call the MMO situation - you'll have to sign into your account and be on their servers to play.

If patches/updates can only be downloaded from the client itself [i.e. Steam for Steam-sold games; Origin for EA's games; U-Play for UbiSoft's games; Impulse for their games; etc], it's gonna make it a pain for hackers to find out what's been updated so they can crack the new version of the game. Another issue - constant updating might make hackers give up. Seriously, TF2 had over 100+ updates. What hacker gonna keep up w/ that?

If Cloud Saving is forced only, then you have to be online to play and continue YOUR game from YOUR last save on their servers.
If saving is done locally on your PC, you can be got around the MMO situation easily, thanks to hackers finding their way around things - see Assassin's Creed 2 PC.


Player Monitoring
Of course they are monitoring players. Probably saves some money on doing intense focus group testing.
Hence the emphasis on Achievements for completing portions of the game - so the dev's and publishers can get an idea of what the player completes and doesn't complete.
And they are taking notes to decide what kind of content should be in the next game and what should not.
Example - If say a majority of the players does every side quest, yet doesn't finish the main quest - they know what has to be improved next time around: main quest.
Example - If very few players played a game as a certain character or certain class, why should they keep that class? Or, how should they improve it so people play as is?