Overwritten.net
Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xessive on Saturday, August 04, 2012, 10:42:54 AM
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Ok, so I'm finally messing around with Win8. I've installed a copy of the MSDN released RTM.
Am I impressed? Well, that depends entirely on perspective. The UI changes certainly make it more efficient for the average consumer. It looks snazzy and it is smooth. As a desktop user, let's just say Win7 is where it's at.
The Metro Start menu is at the core of Win8 and it gets in the way when you're trying to simply use your PC in a more traditional sense. The interface is clearly designed for touch.
Hitting the WIN key on the keyboard brings up the Metro Start, alternatively if you bring the mouse to the bottom left corner a thumbnail of the Metro Start screen pops up and you can click it. What's surprisingly irritating is that it runs its own set of apps, for example I installed Chrome (since it is my current preferred browser) and running it from the desktop opens it in the desktop, but if I run it from Metro Start it will open a separate Chrome window that's suited to Metro (doesn't have the 3 buttons on the top right) So now I have two Chromes open. And Alt-tabbing doesn't go through all your currently open apps. Alt-tabbing while in desktop lets you tab between your current desktop apps but alt-tabbing in Metro lets you swap between the open Metro apps. It is as one journalist so succinctly put it "schizophrenic."
It's like, no IT IS having two interfaces installed over one another on one system and they're fighting for your attention. It can be infuriating.
Windows 8 Metro is probably great for the average/casual consumer. It is a terrible ordeal for the intermediate-advanced PC user. SO, yeah.. My first impression I'm inclined to agree with Gabe Newell and Brad Wardell. Also, I cannot for the life of me figure out how to switch tabs in Metro IE. When I create a new tab using Ctrl+T, the tab lists pops up for a couple of seconds then disappears even if I hover over it. I'm gonna have to look it up online to figure out how to view my tabs using the mouse. That's not a good sign.
Anyway, I'm gonna keep messing with it and see if I ever adapt to the madness.
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*Sigh* I've changed my mind. I won't accept Win 8 casually, as I planned to. It will become like Vista after XP, something for me to avoid if at all possible. That makes me wonder if I should look into a new PC soon, somehow, before 8 starts to take over new PCs in the market. Is there any info on how aggressive MS will be with PC makers on replacing 7 with 8 on future hardware?
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*Sigh* I've changed my mind. I won't accept Win 8 casually, as I planned to. It will become like Vista after XP, something for me to avoid if at all possible. That makes me wonder if I should look into a new PC soon, somehow, before 8 starts to take over new PCs in the market. Is there any info on how aggressive MS will be with PC makers on replacing 7 with 8 on future hardware?
They seem pretty adamant on making Windows 8 THE operating system on all new OEMs.
I'm sure there will be all sorts of tweaks to get WIn8 to work the way we want it to; but it says a lot that we would have to resort to third-party software and crafty tweaks just to get the base UI to work the way we need. With previous iterations of Windows third-party software and tricks were for advanced users and customizing Windows not for simply interacting with it on a basic level.
It's certainly gonna take a lot of getting used to, especially with the uber-touch-oriented-a-la-duplo interface.
Btw, I discovered another little trick to add Desktop shortcuts into the Metro Start, which will launch whatever desktop app you choose from Metro directly into the desktop. It just further supports the notion that the UI is disjointed, to say the least.
Btw, I'm still trying to figure out how to use Metro IE without keystrokes or keyboard shortcuts. Amazingly enough, everything is now tied to the right-click. That's right, the ubiquitous right-click context menu has now been replaced with an action that brings up the address bar and the tabs at the top. All good and dandy but now the question is how the F do I bring up the context menu? The simple answer is you don't. Rather, you don't necessarily have to. The right-click is now a context-sensitive action. That means that when you right-click on blank space you get the tabs/address bar etc. but if you highlight text or right click on specific items you get a context menu with relevant options to those specific items i.e. cut/paste or undo.
Again, most of the stuff involving Metro is just a matter of getting used to it. The problem lies in how distant they've made the Desktop mode. It's like they're trying to make it redundant despite its undeniable functionality. Speaking of which, it seems they've gone out of their way to make the Desktop mode unappealing. They've completely removed the "Aero" style, replacing it with a very flat "template" style. It doesn't even really carry much of the "Metro" feel, it just looks like a design template for UI skin developers with dynamic color schemes. At first I thought it could be an incomplete part but I remember that in the Release Preview it was in fact Aero underneath.
Anyway, back to exploring.
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I read something recently that said they felt that Aero, the overall Windows XP, Vista, and 7 look, and the Office 2007/2010 look just simply had too much in the way of distractions in the chrome and they wanted to make it very clean. So that's why it looks like a basic template now. I'm not supporting or defending the design, just repeating what I read.
In a way, it sounds to me sort of like what Google did between Android 2.3 and 4.0.
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@Xessive
I know you're trying to give Win 8 a chance as it is and all...
But, do you think you might eventually wind up using Start8 or Classic Shell mods for Win8?
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Yeah, I get their design philosophy and I do agree that they should have dump Aero in favour of the minimalistic Metro look but it looks and feels half-baked. For example, one minor thing, they brought back titlebar text (talk about retro), the window frames have no transparency at all and the text is always black, even when you change the window frame colours the text colour never adapts. I like black frames but all text is black and the the 3 frame buttons (_□X) also fade into it (except X since it's red). So I switched it to a light colour (white-grey) which works out ok.
EDIT:
I just wish they had done something more stylish, that fits in with the new minimalistic appeal and also feels complete.
And D, later I might consider installing something to remedy the situation. I'm gonna hold off on that for now. I want to take in the vanilla experience first and gauge how effective this new UI really is.
I don't mind the new Start screen, other than the fact that it occupies the entire screen. The thing I don't like though is this "hot spot" gesture system they've got going on; which seems to take some cues from MacOS. There's the bottom-left for Start, top-left for switching between active apps but if you swing the mouse slightly down from that corner it brings up a sidebar with the thumbnails of all the active apps, then there's top-right for the right sidebar which includes a Start button, search, Share button, and on the bottom is a list of buttons for customization and shutdown. Again, these hot spots make perfect sense for touch but swinging a mouse around is not ideal. It's not a question of you have to hit a specific zone, I mean they're corners so you can't really miss, it's just wonky for a mouse user.
Depending on how the overall experience I may upgrade my main system come October/November.
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haha yeah I remember them saying that they removed "Aero" because it was "juvenile". It made me laugh because it wasn't juvenile when they were pushing it so hard, was it? It sounded more like removing Aero was a technical decision so they are now putting it to being juvenile.
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I'm pretty excited for Surface. Using Windows 8 on a tablet style computer sounds perfect. On a desktop though, not sure I would bother.
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Yeah, I have to say the Surface looks pretty nice.
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Yeah, the Surface is what it's all about. Win8 makes sense that way.
On the desktop it technically works but it's inefficient compared to traditional Windows. It feels like I'm being forced to use the "shell experience" and I'm being goaded away from accessing the hard drive directly, much like an iOS device or Windows Phone.
In Win8 they've made it more difficult to just go to the drive and access folders; it's far from impossible but certainly takes some extra unnecessary steps. From a "work" perspective, Win8 slows me down. The simplicity of clicking Start, then "Computer" to access my drives is now replaced by waiting for the Start screen to come (about 1 second) but also dependant on my having placed a manual shortcut to My Computer. Alternatively, I could gesture my mouse to he top-right or bottom-right corner, then highlight Devices and let them display in the sidebar. I'll admit a lot of the changes can remedied by an adjustment in habits, but after nearly 15 years of pressing the START button to get to my folders or various tools it's tough to break the habit. I keep involuntarily bringing up the Start screen.
I mean, yes it is more organized but it's also an entire screen. Even in Win7 I rarely ever click on "All Programs" most of the functions I use are on that handy little Start menu that pops up when I click Start. I don't require a full transition animation, then an entire screen to advertise all the wonders of Windows 8 just to access my apps. I would be perfectly fine without it.
In my relatively brief experience with Win8, I'm starting to feel that the Start screen would have actually been much better as a desktop background. Keep the Win7 desktop as it is but now I have an interactive background that I can customize to work with my desktop experience. That makes sense to me. Not a disjointed, independent screen that feels more like an intrusion on my activities.
Anyway, I've tested gaming in Win8 and while games do perform well there is no integration at all with the built-in Games app. Apparently that only works with "Games For Windows Live" games. Battlefield 3 runs smoothly, and setting up a shortcut to it on the Start screen was automatic. Once I run the Start screen automatically goes away and the desktop IE loads up Battlelog. It will always load up desktop IE and not Metro IE since the latter apparently is not compatible with all IE add-ons. Certainly a noteworthy shortcoming.
Oh, and one more irritation. In Metro, you can't just close an app when you're done using it. You have to switch away and then manually close it from the tab selection by right-clicking on it and then closing it. I get why this is ok for tablets but for desktops we are the minimize or close culture. Having all apps running in fullscreen at all times is redundant to us desktoppers.
I will have to run some performance tests to gauge game performance and see the effects of having several Metro apps just sitting in the background.
The more I dig, the more I find stuff to dislike about Win8. I do actually like the Start screen, just not for a desktop. It is smooth and intuitive but it's like navigating through Windows Media Centre. Actually, that is a pretty good analogy for the UI experience. Seriously, if you have WMC on, load it up in fullscreen and use it with a mouse. It works but it will feel bulky. The Start screen is certainly smoother but exhibits a very similar "bulky" experience. Simply, it was not designed with the mouse in mind as the primary interaction method.
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Something just occurred to me. Microsoft is going to be releasing the new Windows Server 2012 alongside Windows 8 for IT professionals and network managers. Will they also have to deal with UI formerly known as Metro?
That would be a real pain in the A to handle.
It is increasingly more tedious to use with a mouse, especially when in the UI formerly known as Metro, the context menu does not appear close to the cursor, it always shows up along the bottom, usually to the far right or far left depending on the context of the right-click.
Anyway, with Windows 8 more is less: more time with Windows 8 equals less desire to use frequently.
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We are highly interested in Windows Server 2012 but not interested at all in Windows 8 here.
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After about 3-4 weeks of mucking about in Windows 8 I've uninstalled it. Its best features were the new task manager and the vastly improved file transfer management. Aside from those features I've concluded that Windows 8 (in its current iteration) is redundant and provides no valid reason to move away from Windows 7.
Incidentally, I have installed Ubuntu 12.04 on my system and it is awesome! For everyday usage, productivity, and entertainment it is more than satisfactory; it is excellent. The only thing it's missing is PC gaming.
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Maximum PC's Windows 8 Review (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/windows_8_Review)
It's pretty much a confirmation of everything we've seen and heard so far. They also provide some hints and tips for third-party apps that can help alleviate some of the common Win8 woes (namely Metro).
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I like how they're informing the readers that giving in to this is halfway to giving in completely, a loss of a real PC UI, replaced by a closed tablet UI, in "Windows 9" or whatever the next iteration gets called. Seeing the battles that erupt over this should make for some great entertainment.
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I like how they're informing the readers that giving in to this is halfway to giving in completely, a loss of a real PC UI, replaced by a closed tablet UI, in "Windows 9" or whatever the next iteration gets called. Seeing the battles that erupt over this should make for some great entertainment.
Haha yeah, bring on the popcorn!
Honestly though, I think Windows 8 would have been a much better experience in either of these scenarios:
- Honor the classic desktop experience, keep the traditional Windows UI with the new technical enhancements. Make the desktop the focus.
or
- Embrace Metro completely, lose the desktop altogether, and create a brand new mode of interaction that is completely focused on the new organization that is compatible with mouse+KB configuration.
The half-ass disjointed interface is what really breaks Windows 8 and makes it a real chore to use.
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http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/10/windows-8-and-winrt-everything-old-is-new-again/
Half of the article is over my head but it still seems great.
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I've been toying around in Win8 with Stardock's Start8. The bad news? None, really. Start8 pretty much fixes all the Start Menu woes I've experienced without losing the advantages that come with Win8 and the freedom to open the interface formerly known as Metro when I feel like it; essentially making Win8 a refined Win7.
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That looks really good. $5 makes it painless too.
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I bought Windows 8. Couldn't resist at the special price of $14 for Windows 8 pro for my region. I'll get Start 8 too. :)
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I've been toying around in Win8 with Stardock's Start8. The bad news? None, really. Start8 pretty much fixes all the Start Menu woes I've experienced without losing the advantages that come with Win8 and the freedom to open the interface formerly known as Metro when I feel like it; essentially making Win8 a refined Win7.
I've had my eye on that as well in case I decide to take the Win8 plunge. I am looking at Start8 sideways though. I had Stardock's Object Dock back when I had Vista and didn't like it much. It seemed too bolted on top rather than part of the UI.
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OK, but how does that match up with what Xessive said? It's not quite the same thing, or is it?
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I am going to install it soon so I will give my opinion on if the integration feels natural or slapped on.
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Well, of all Stardock's UI enhancements this one certainly seems the most deeply integrated. The only part that makes it feel like it's added on is its separate configuration application, but even that has been done up in Stardock's new "Metro" style too. Either way, you'll rarely use the config once you've set it up the way you like it.
Start8 does have a little, low-resource service running in the background but its tiny footprint is practically negligible compared to the myriad of services running within Win8 anyway.
You have the choice of what type of Start menu to use as well. You could use the traditional Win7 style or actually have a miniaturized version of the Win8 Start Menu in lieu of it occupying the whole frickin' screen. It even gives you the option of choosing how your systems starts when it logs into Windows: Start Screen or Desktop, your call now. At the very least, Start8 makes the problems with the Win8 interface a question of preference rather than functionality.
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So the entire day was spent downloading the installation file. Eventually, it was done. The installation process was so seamless, it was almost unreal. Then came the set up process, where I entered my details, but Windows crashed!
Then it told me it couldn't install Windows 8 and it was reverting. The reverting bit took 15 scary minutes, but it was seamless. Almost as if it never happened! Amazing. I am back. Going to try again. It may have something to do with my Windows 7 being hacked. :P I don't know.
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Well, apparently it doesn't have anything to do with pirated Windows 7. Going to give it another shot. This time will install from Flash drive.
http://techpp.com/2012/10/26/upgrade-to-windows-8-from-illegal-windows-7/
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Well, of all Stardock's UI enhancements this one certainly seems the most deeply integrated. The only part that makes it feel like it's added on is its separate configuration application, but even that has been done up in Stardock's new "Metro" style too. Either way, you'll rarely use the config once you've set it up the way you like it.
Start8 does have a little, low-resource service running in the background but its tiny footprint is practically negligible compared to the myriad of services running within Win8 anyway.
You have the choice of what type of Start menu to use as well. You could use the traditional Win7 style or actually have a miniaturized version of the Win8 Start Menu in lieu of it occupying the whole frickin' screen. It even gives you the option of choosing how your systems starts when it logs into Windows: Start Screen or Desktop, your call now. At the very least, Start8 makes the problems with the Win8 interface a question of preference rather than functionality.
NOT like many of the desktop power users want to - but can you still use Win8's Original Metro?
Start8 doesn't overwrite MS's Original Metro, does it?
If it doesn't - can you switch b/t MS's Original Metro and all of those Stardock's Start8 Features?
EDIT:
I went to Staples yesterday (to buy a few games, since some titles are $1, $2, or $5 there) - and played w/ a little bit of Win 8, since they had a few laptops set-up w/ it and all. Didn't care for Metro at all. I did like one thing - on the desktop, just typing brings up Search Menu. That saves one or two step every time from Win 7 - where you hit Start, Then go into Search bar.
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So the issue was some app causing a conflict that I had ignored the first time. This time I just imported nothing.
Fuck, I love this! Awesome. Just needs a few tweaks and I could really love this. I love how easy it is to switch to traditional desktop from Metro. I just want to figure out where "My Computer" is. But I have just been one for a few minutes and I love it. The apps are sweet!
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This thing is blazing FAST.
OK, the Stardock thing. I feel that Start 8 app is largely unnecessary! I am hardly using the desktop actually!
Everything that was there before is still here, just in different places. I just Metro. This feel pretty awesome to me. Quite a revolution. Very very impressed. Going to be reviewing Windows 8.
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So here is the thing. The problem is we are used to working from the desktop. When Windows 8 wants us to work from Metro, we resist. The thing is that once you try and do that, you will realize you are having a better experience. It is really amazing. I can't stress how fast it is. And going from Metro to application, to desktop, to wherever you want to go is so fast.
Whatever you are doing. You can always take your mouse to the top right for five basic commands including search, settings, and start (metro). You can take your mouse to the top left for all the windows that are open. And you can take your mouse to the bottom left for start (metro).... unless you are on metro itself, where it will take you to the desktop if you take your mouse to the bottom left.
Now this thing is so unbelievably fast that going from app to app is FAR faster and easier than Windows 7. Once you accept that Metro is your new base of operations, and stop trying to do everything desktop, you will have a great experience.
The reason why the Stardock application doesn't make any sense (and if you have to use and accept Windows 8 to get it), is that from a design perspective, it takes away from the uniformity. There is a reason why there is no start bar in desktop. Because in essence, Metro IS your start bar, and it is a beautiful one at that. Don't think of Metro as a different application. Think of it as an massive start bar that is taking full advantage of your monitor's real estate. The fact that switching is SO fast, makes it feel that way. It is just a large beautiful intuitive Start bar.
This thing is beautifully designed. Lovely design, really.
I must admit, the first hour was a bit nuts... but I am loving it now.
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OK, but how does that match up with what Xessive said? It's not quite the same thing, or is it?
Object Dock was a UI element for Windows that emulates the Mac OS X Dock to some degree. It is not the same as Start8.
All I was trying to say is that I've previously tried one of Stardock's OS UI enhancements and I did not like it.
So here is the thing. The problem is we are used to working from the desktop. When Windows 8 wants us to work from Metro, we resist. The thing is that once you try and do that, you will realize you are having a better experience. It is really amazing. I can't stress how fast it is. And going from Metro to application, to desktop, to wherever you want to go is so fast.
Whatever you are doing. You can always take your mouse to the top right for five basic commands including search, settings, and start (metro). You can take your mouse to the top left for all the windows that are open. And you can take your mouse to the bottom left for start (metro).... unless you are on metro itself, where it will take you to the desktop if you take your mouse to the bottom left.
Now this thing is so unbelievably fast that going from app to app is FAR faster and easier than Windows 7. Once you accept that Metro is your new base of operations, and stop trying to do everything desktop, you will have a great experience.
The reason why the Stardock application doesn't make any sense (and if you have to use and accept Windows 8 to get it), is that from a design perspective, it takes away from the uniformity. There is a reason why there is no start bar in desktop. Because in essence, Metro IS your start bar, and it is a beautiful one at that. Don't think of Metro as a different application. Think of it as an massive start bar that is taking full advantage of your monitor's real estate. The fact that switching is SO fast, makes it feel that way. It is just a large beautiful intuitive Start bar.
This thing is beautifully designed. Lovely design, really.
I must admit, the first hour was a bit nuts... but I am loving it now.
I totally disagree with you. Modern UI (formerly "Metro") is an interface clearly designed for a touch interface. It is probably really good at that. But it does not make good use of a mouse and keyboard. For instance, right clicking something on the Modern UI Start menu shows some context-sensitive items spread out at the bottom of the screen. Now I have to move my mouse all the way down there to select something. In Windows 95 - Windows 7, a compact context-sensitive menu appeared right near your mouse pointer and it only took a very small amount of movement from the mouse to select the option you wanted.
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NOT like many of the desktop power users want to - but can you still use Win8's Original Metro?
Start8 doesn't overwrite MS's Original Metro, does it?
If it doesn't - can you switch b/t MS's Original Metro and all of those Stardock's Start8 Features?
EDIT:
I went to Staples yesterday (to buy a few games, since some titles are $1, $2, or $5 there) - and played w/ a little bit of Win 8, since they had a few laptops set-up w/ it and all. Didn't care for Metro at all. I did like one thing - on the desktop, just typing brings up Search Menu. That saves one or two step every time from Win 7 - where you hit Start, Then go into Search bar.
Yes, Start8 basically makes it so I use the Start Screen when I want to use it, not when it wants me to use it.
EDIT:
I agree with Scott. The Modern interface is counterproductive for mouse and keyboard. With a mouse your focal point is the cursor, you navigate it to the interface elements and contextual items need to focus on it. With touch interface it's the opposite, the focus is fixated points, the interface is built with specific hotspots for your hands.
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The good thing I noticed, when I was at Staples messing w/ Win 8 yesterday -- Windows + D key shortcut still takes you to straight to the Desktop. :D As someone so used to the Desktop format, that's good; especially if I did for some reason decide to buy Win 8 and then toss some icons on the Desktop.
I could see that the best thing w/ Metro UI for Win 8 is flat-out typing what you want (Search) is skipping a few steps. I type fast - so, if it find a program I wanted accurately on Win 8, that'd be the benefit for me. Seriously, when on Win 7 - I don't normally type in a letter keys just to go to an Icon that begins w/ that letter. I just click on the Icon on My Desktop. And of course, my desktop's littered w/ Icons on Win 7 here - and pretty much, Fences (FREEWARE) solved ALL of my Icon desktop complaints.
EDIT:
Yes, Start8 basically makes it so I use the Start Screen when I want to use it, not when it wants me to use it.
With Start8 installed and using Win 7 Style Menu - does hitting the Windows key on keyboard bring up Win 7 Menu? Or Metro UI?
I know, I'm asking A LOT of questions, huh? Heh.
EDIT 2:
The reason why the Stardock application doesn't make any sense (and if you have to use and accept Windows 8 to get it), is that from a design perspective, it takes away from the uniformity. There is a reason why there is no start bar in desktop. Because in essence, Metro IS your start bar, and it is a beautiful one at that. Don't think of Metro as a different application. Think of it as an massive start bar that is taking full advantage of your monitor's real estate. The fact that switching is SO fast, makes it feel that way. It is just a large beautiful intuitive Start bar.
I don't want that Massive Start Bar (Metro UI) taking up the entire screen, though - Win 7 Start Menu worked fine and didn't take up much space at all. To me, it looks ugly for a KB/mouse interface. I'm sure for a phone or tablet (with touch-screen), it'd be fine.
I often used Start Menu on Win 7 for the for a few things: the SEARCH function (especially); any recently used programs that wind-up on the left pane; and for many of the options on the Right Pane.
For getting to "Computer" - that's the icon on the Desktop. I'd guess on Win 8, it'd be best if I just typed in "Computer", if they really didn't change its name. [shrug]
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That's true. Metro does take away lot of the control. I realize it is a UI designed for tablets, but by looking at it as a new style of Start menu, I am coming to appreciate it.
That said, I am spending a lot of time on the desktop installing stuff so far. Anyway, this is just the first hour, but I am really loving Windows 8 quite a bit.
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Win Start8 installed and using Win 7 Style Menu - does hitting the Windows key on keyboard bring up Win 7 Menu? Or Metro UI?
I know, I'm asking A LOT of questions, huh? Heh.
Haha no worries, dude. It's your choice. You can choose how you want your keyboard Win key to behave and even the lower-left hotspot when in Modern UI Start Screen.
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Yup, I like that about the Stardock app. It allows a lot of customization in that area.
Maybe I will come to appreciate the app after I really get the handle on Metro. The Winodows 8 startup it has is weird. The Windows 7 is much better. The Windows 8 where it mixes Metro feels really odd to me.
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Haha no worries, dude. It's your choice. You can choose how you want your keyboard Win key to behave and even the lower-left hotspot when in Modern UI Start Screen.
Good to know, just in case.
How long is Win 8 offer for $15 going on for?
I doubt I'll move to Win 8 soon - b/c what I'd really want is Win 8 Full Version, not an Upgrade Version.
EDIT:
If I was to use Start8 for Win 8...
...Small or Tall looks like the way I'd rather go w/ Win 8.
Wide and Large look like they'd take up too much real estate to suit me.
From Start8 by Stardock on what they have Metro look like for them:
(http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/images/features/sizes_full.png)
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So I have been using the Stardock app for now (with Windows 7) mode and with all the items with such easy access in one start menu, I have found little reason to go back to Metro. So, I am going to uninstall this app from Stardock and see how I manage with Metro alone for a week (with the pleasure of knowing I can go back to Stardock's app).
I have been tasked with a review of Windows 8, so I think it is better to skip the Stardock app for now. I do love Metro and it is so fast that I felt that given time, I would end up thinking vanilla Windows 8 a great replacement. But with the Stardock app I am now double minded.
Is this really improving my Windows experience? I should give myself some time.
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The first WTF thing that makes me realize that Metro and the Star Menu are not the same. I was on Metro and clicked the Google Chrome and was confused to note that it had Facebook open, which I thought I had closed hours ago. Turns out Metro and Desktop are running the same apps separately.
Disappointing.
Edit:
So that's why I could minimize Chrome sometimes and sometimes not. On Desktop you can minimize it to see your desktop, while on Metro you are kindly like dude... where is the minimize button? This is pretty stupid, and now I understand the whole multiple personality disorder thing. You'd think that with people unaware, they could be running many more apps than necessary! It is running fast, but still.
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Yep, and with the Modern UI apps you can't close them instantly either. You cannot close the currently active app, instead you have to swap them out then manually close them one by one from the top-left task-switcher.
EDIT:
Also, I have noticed what I believe is a bug. When Win 8 boots up, in desktop mode, the "Touch Keyboard" is listed on my taskbar. Apparently, it's an active toolbar and no matter how many times I have unchecked it from the toolbars, each time Windows boots up the damn Touch Keyboard toolbar reactivates itself.
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Yup. Noticed that too. What is a touch keyboard.
You are right. As cool as Modern UI is, it feels like a multiple personality thing. The apps on Modern UI are cool, accessing everything from one place always makes more sense that having to use two platforms.
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Yup. Noticed that too. What is a touch keyboard.
You are right. As cool as Modern UI is, it feels like a multiple personality thing. The apps on Modern UI are cool, accessing everything from one place always makes more sense that having to use two platforms.
It's the onscreen keyboard made for a touchscreen.
Yeah, Start8 helps keep the desktop and Modern UI segregated. As it stands I don't need to touch the Start Screen if I don't want to. That reminds me: Start8 also gives you the option to launch Modern UI apps right from the start menu as well; it added a program group in the start menu called "Modern UI applications" with shortcuts to them.
The ironic conflict I'm facing is that I actually like the Modern UI Start Screen and how clean it looks, I just can't stand how it kept getting slapped in my face while I'm trying to use the desktop to do my everyday stuff and, of course, how awkward it is to use with a mouse and keyboard.
I'm curious to see how the Surface will fair. I'd love to try out the Modern UI on the touchscreen it was intended for.
UPDATE:
Here's an interesting article looking at the inner workings of Win8, which is, in my opinion, where Win8 really shines.
Better on the inside: under the hood of Windows 8 (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/better-on-the-inside-under-the-hood-of-windows-8/)
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"Preserving battery life is one of the key goals for Metro applications. Unlike desktop applications, Metro applications aren't in general allowed to run in the background; unless you're actively looking at a Metro application, Windows suspends it after a few seconds. If memory becomes low, Windows will quietly terminate the app. Switching back to the app, whether it was suspended or terminated, resumes it."
Thanks for the article X. This is what I was wondering about. Why running so many apps at once doesn't slow the system down!
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So I've been trying to figure out if I can stop having to go to Modern UI by accessing stuff from the Windows 8 desktop without having to resort to the Start Bar. And one way is to pin apps to the Task Bar. For example, I opened the control panel in Modern UI and it opened on desktop. So I pinned the window on the Taskbar, and can now access it whenever I want.
edit: Well then! You can go to Modern UI. Right click to access Apps.... and whenever you select an app, there is an option there in Modern UI itself to pin stuff to Task Bar. Shows that this Microsoft's plan as well.
In the end I will still use the Stardock app, but I perhaps even without it, it wouldn't be *so* bad.
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Fuck your Windows. I still prefer DOS.
I haven't used a ton of Stardock non-game products, but I do have Fences which I enjoy a great deal. It doesn't really feel tacked on at all, it just works nicely and combines well with Rainmeter and the other junk I keep around. I dig it.
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Wow I write posts extra badly when I am struggling for sleep.
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Wow I write posts extra badly when I am struggling for sleep.
Haha try doing it with an autocorrect that just won't agree with you :P Before you know it, you've involuntarily typed all sorts of strange things to people!
I've found a few select proprietary drivers/software that are not compatible with Win8 but for most I can find workarounds, such as my Seagate GoFlex network drive and its management software (luckily, I can just make my own network drive mapping in Windows and manually manage its settings and access rights). It's minor and for the most part it's stuff that the manufacturers will have to address eventually in updated drivers and patches etc.
At $15 the upgrade to Windows 8 is totally worth it. Mine upgraded while retaining all my software and settings, I was using it within half an hour without skipping a beat, it almost feels like I just applied a new visual style.
Even at $40 the upgrade would be a worthwhile investment, considering the behind-the-scenes OS improvements and especially if you're keen on the new UI.
The full retail price is $70, while it seems high compared to the digital upgrade options it' still the most affordable Windows OS to date.
Microsoft are really pushing for people to adopt it
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I have a theory. It is just like them selling 360s at losses. Then they were trying to enter the console market. Here, they are trying to enter the tablet market. In both cases, eventually, PC people will reap benefits.
The whole efficiency under the hood is a big benefit we wouldn't have seen from Windows 8 otherwise.
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My experience with Windows 7 has been middling. It's okay, but not great, and it feels a bit bloated. Does Win8 really streamline things? Because at this point, I have to do whatever I can to make this rig perform better.
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Kotaku -> Make Steam Look Prettier On Windows 8... (http://updates.kotaku.com/post/34677507666/make-steam-look-prettier-on-windows-8)
Namely, it's about this program called Tile Creator (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1899865) that they're using.
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My experience with Windows 7 has been middling. It's okay, but not great, and it feels a bit bloated. Does Win8 really streamline things? Because at this point, I have to do whatever I can to make this rig perform better.
Hmmmm... I think it feels bloated yet runs faster :P
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My experience with Windows 7 has been middling. It's okay, but not great, and it feels a bit bloated. Does Win8 really streamline things? Because at this point, I have to do whatever I can to make this rig perform better.
I've actually found Windows 7 to possibly be the best version of windows I've used. I mean, XP was great for a very long time, but it seems like 7 maintains that light and fast feeling of a fresh install longer for me (it's also entirely possible that this is due to me fucking around with my PC less than when I used XP) and I find the interface a lot better the way I have it set up (task bar on the right hand side, yo).
I'm probably not the best to ask about Operating Systems though. I mean, I never minded Vista (although in retrospect, my Vista notebook was awkward to use for some reason until I threw Win7 on that bitch.)
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I'm still on XP. It was my intention to get 7 if I ever got a 64-bit PC. From what I've been reading here, I guess I'd probably accept 8 now, with the Stardock thing or something like it.
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I don't really have any intention of going to 8 at this time. It doesn't really seem like it adds anything interesting to me.
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At $15 it's not a bad deal at all.
Btw, Microsoft have rectified the whole "upgrading from pirated copies" thing. Now you need to enter a legitimate Win7 product key (which shouldn't be a problem for most).
With the tweaks and Start8 it really feels like I'm using "Win7 Enhanced Edition" or something. Mind you, it will does this new square and flat visual style, which works for minimalists.
If you're on Win7, full price might not be worth it just yet. If you're on Vista (dear God just upgrade already, to anything) or XP it would be worth it to go for Win8 even at $40.
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I think for $15 it is worth the price. Mind you, I hardly use the Modern UI. But the OS is blazing fast.
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I have a confession to make:
I've never paid for an operating system. Gangsta.
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Neither have I, not directly anyway. Every OS I've had has either come installed on the systems I've bought, or I've acquired it some other way. I have paid indirectly for at least 1 copy of every OS I've ever had, if that makes any difference. Windows 8 will probably come with whatever PC I get next.
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Windows 8 basics: Tips, tricks, and cures (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/11/windows-8-basics-tips-tricks-and-cures/)
A helpful set of tips for Windows 8 usage and new interface dynamics we may have overlooked.
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So I did a little searching and I'm still not sure if I can do a clean install with the upgrade. Right now I'm running an upgrade version of windows 7, but its in the 'trial period' since when I enter the key I used before(which I'm pretty sure is an xp key) windows tells me that the key is only good for upgrades and not clean installs.
I'm probably going to end up getting 8 in the next couple months, and I'm not sure if I need to get the full version or if I can get away with the upgrade. Anyone know?
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This article (http://www.ghacks.net/2012/10/27/windows-8-upgrade-clean-install-possible/) might help shed some light on that, since Microsoft hasn't been clear on that.
And here's a Win8 clean install guide (http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows-8/ss/windows-8-clean-install-part-1.htm).
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Croteam speaks out against Win 8. (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/05/serious-sam-3-developer-speaks-out-against-windows-8/)
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Stardock take it a step further with Decor8 (http://www.stardock.com/products/decor8/?ref=decor8_beta1_odnt_weburl&utm_source=StardockSoftware&utm_medium=email&utm_term=10082012&utm_content=Decor8+Beta+1&utm_campaign=Decor8+Beta+1+Announcement+ODNT)!
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Guys going to review Windows 8 and will use quotes from you guys. Hope that is OK. :)
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I don't care if you use any quotes from me.
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Pug's Windows 8 Review -- "Windows 8 is great". (http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/14726/windows-8-is-great/)
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Didn't have word space for quotes.
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You guys had a Windows 97SE over there? It was 98SE here.
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You guys had a Windows 97SE over there? It was 98SE here.
Well, with our rampant piracy/bootlegging/counterfeiting we probably did have Windows '97 at one point :P
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Crap. That was meant to say 98SE. My mistake.
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PC Gamer -> Microsoft will restrict DirectX 11.1 to Win 8. (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/12/microsoft-directx-windows-8/)
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I liked the first comment:
“Windows 8 currently can be bought for USD39.99, while it can be upgraded to for as little as USD14.99 in certain circumstances. Compare that to prices of Windows in the past, which ranged north of USD 149.99, and you have a real bargain.”
Dude just buy it for 0.8 dollors from any local shop in Pak. This is the real bargaining.
"Hey man, I noticed you mentioned the price MSRP but didn't mention that you could also pay someone for a bootleg copy that you could get for free with better support. Obviously paying someone to bootleg it is the best option.
'
Sure, I may be missing something to do with broadband access, but it's still a really pointless (although slightly less dumb) comment.
Anyway, back on track - my mom is buying a laptop, pre-loaded Windows 8 is an option and she's currently using XP. Is Metro/Win8 going to make her lose her shit learning new layouts and all that enough to just make getting Windows 7 a better option?
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Had the 97SE edited to 98SE. Thanks Scott.
GPW, I actually am not completely sure. I'd recommend she go for it, but I don't know if she will have problems. I think it shall be fine.
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it can be upgraded to for as little as USD14.99 in certain circumstances
Really? What circumstances?
My latest legit copy of Windows is XP Pro, and it would be nice to make the jump to 8 for that cheap. (sorry if I missed something related to that quote, I haven't been keeping up with this thread and just saw that part)
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I think it only works for Win 7 users.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/20/microsoft-opens-14-99-windows-8-upgrade-registration/
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http://www.windowsupgradeoffer.com/
It used to be fine but they later added on the extra requirement of providing a valid Windows 7 key (after they noticed that people with illegitimate versions of Win7 were getting the upgrade offer too).
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hahaha yes
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(http://i.imgur.com/9ltP5.gif)
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LOL ok as I was reading that I thought you were gonna say they realized people with XP were doing it, but people with illegitimate win7 keys were? rofl
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I've just tested out both the Refresh and Reset features on two separate PCs which I setup with Windows 8. I gotta say, it is an extremely convenient way to bring your PC back to "fresh" status.
Refresh is basically clearing your OS' settings without altering your personal files. It's relatively quick and basically makes it feel like a fresh PC with all my docs/save files and applications. I had to reinstall my video driver and re-detect attached hardware, then it was all set.
Restart, on the other hand, is the equivalent of formatting your PC with the added advantage of having it automatically retain Windows 8 as the OS (none of your files on the chosen hard drive though). It takes longer but it's the cleaner choice if you're a "format drive" junkie, like me. It's basically an unattended format, install OS; when you come back all you have to do is create your user and sign in, it'll do the usual "setting up new user" stuff just as if you've just installed Windows 8.
One small but noticeable advantage is also not having to go through the activation process again nor entering a CD key of any sort. The only thing is adding the PC to your Microsoft Account's list of approved devices
Colour me impressed with these convenient features.
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I upgraded to Win8 on my work laptop. One of the first things I did was install Start8 because the Modern UI Start menu is just crap for non-touch devices. The OS seems fine for traditional use after making that change.
On my laptop, I noticed that some things were much snappier on Windows 8 vs Windows 7 and I have been using a SSD the whole time. But some things are slower. For some reason, Notepad++ lags badly for several seconds when I switch back to it after using another application. Also, connecting to my work's wireless network is much slower than it used to be and frequently times out.
In the end, I don't really see much reason to upgrade to Windows 8 from Windows 7 unless you can take advantage of a touch interface.
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The Modern UI is Win8's most touted feature, but for people like us it's the least used and most unappealing (despite its attractive appearance).
In my experience, it seems Win8 has definitely improved many things in terms of OS operations, but I haven't noticed any significant change between it and Win7 with regards to networking, except of course the User Settings Sync options. I don't connect to a work network as you do, Scott, so I wouldn't know how much that has been affected or deteriorated as in your case. Gonna have to do some testing on that front.
For home networking it definitely works great. The User Settings Sync feature I mentioned comes in handy since I have multiple PCs running, three of which I have set up Win8 on: my Asus G74, my old but recently-revived HTPC, and a laptop. Having my interface settings sync across all three certainly makes life easier, not to mention remote operating and management.
Oh that reminds, completely unrelated topic, but apparently Steam has implemented some basic remote management for any PCs you have authorized (logged in on and confirmed via e-mail code). For example, I purchased a game during the sales while on my phone, it gave me the option to remotely install to my Asus G74 since Steam was authorized on it. I got home, game was ready to go! ... I'm easily amused.
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I upgraded to Win8 on my work laptop. One of the first things I did was install Start8 because the Modern UI Start menu is just crap for non-touch devices. The OS seems fine for traditional use after making that change.
On my laptop, I noticed that some things were much snappier on Windows 8 vs Windows 7 and I have been using a SSD the whole time. But some things are slower. For some reason, Notepad++ lags badly for several seconds when I switch back to it after using another application. Also, connecting to my work's wireless network is much slower than it used to be and frequently times out.
In the end, I don't really see much reason to upgrade to Windows 8 from Windows 7 unless you can take advantage of a touch interface.
I agree. I've been setting up my mom's laptop and decided to install Classic Shell for the start menu. Combined with desktop mode this makes it almost just like a Windows 7 machine, but there are still some really annoying things about it, such as the fact that programs are split into "apps" and "programs" and the ui for all the "apps" absolutely sucks if you don't have a touch interface. I actually had to go, uninstall the Skype app and use a different download link on their site other than the default one they gave me when they detected Windows 8. All because I wanted a desktop shortcut...which I could not figure out how to do with an "app" instead of a "program". The fuck?
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I agree. I've been setting up my mom's laptop and decided to install Classic Shell for the start menu. Combined with desktop mode this makes it almost just like a Windows 7 machine, but there are still some really annoying things about it, such as the fact that programs are split into "apps" and "programs" and the ui for all the "apps" absolutely sucks if you don't have a touch interface. I actually had to go, uninstall the Skype app and use a different download link on their site other than the default one they gave me when they detected Windows 8. All because I wanted a desktop shortcut...which I could not figure out how to do with an "app" instead of a "program". The fuck?
Yeah, the "apps" are all their stuff intended for tablets. You can only acquire them through the Microsoft Marketplace or Store or whatever the Hell it's called now. They are all fullscreen experiences, which is, needless to say, a nuisance for desktop users.
You should be able to download Skype v6 directly from www.skype.com though (that's what I prefer to use). I installed the Skype app on my HTPC to check out how it is on a TV Fullscreen.. feels like a B-movie spy briefing.
On my G74, my Win8 experience is completely devoid of Modern UI. Never have to touch it or its apps unless I specifically go to it via the Start8 menu item. The only annoyances were at the very beginning when filetype defaults were set to the Modern UI apps but on launch it asks if I want to keep it as default or choose an alternative. A one time thing, easily dealt with. Right now it feels like a refined Win7.
I left my HTPC (which is almost exclusively in XBMC anyway) and laptop with Win8 defaults so I can continue to gauge the differences in the UI experiences.
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Yeah, the Skype site actually redirected me to the market or whatever. I eventually uninstalled the app version and found the desktop one on their site. Thanks.
And is Start8 the way to go? I was recommended Classic Shell, but there's still room for improvement.
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In my opinion, Start8 completely brings back the Win7 desktop experience. The Start menu is identical to the one in Win7. It also takes you straight to the desktop after login.
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In my opinion, Start8 completely brings back the Win7 desktop experience. The Start menu is identical to the one in Win7. It also takes you straight to the desktop after login.
In agreement with Scott, Start8 is awesome.
It gives you a lot of options, including (as Scott mentioned) the boot straight into Desktop. It also has the feature of generating a Start menu that is based on the Start Screen but only occupies a fraction of your screen, making it effectively a Win8 start menu rather than screen. You get to choose the sizes too! Aside from that it allows you to control how the lower left corner gesture works when in the Desktop or in the Start Screen. Pretty handy overall and enriches my love for Stardock.
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I've been tempted to make the upgrade after hearing about performance boosts. My rig is showing many signs of aging.
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I've been tempted to make the upgrade after hearing about performance boosts. My rig is showing many signs of aging.
It definitely showed some improvement for me on my old HTPC, however based on forum threads and user feedback the degree varies greatly depending on hardware configuration. The general consensus seems to be that if your system is already running Vista or Win7 it will handle Win8 really well, with the exceptions being certain CPUs that lack very specific functionality.
According to Microsoft, the min. reqs for Win 8 are:
Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with support for PAE, NX, and SSE2 (more info)
RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)
Hard disk space: 16 GB (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit)
Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver
However, my old Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 (on my HTPC) does not have NX support. I was still able to get Win8 running but I don't have access CPU-based security, which was always the case anyway. No love lost there. It's got an old but still relevant Nvidia GeForce 880GTS 320MB which helps it run very smoothly at 1080p. It can also really do well as a basic gaming rig for 2009 titles and earlier, and of course retros and indies!
EDIT:
Btw, here's an article that might come in handy:
How to optimize Windows 8 on old hardware (http://www.pcworld.com/article/2011906/how-to-optimize-windows-8-on-old-hardware.html)
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ArsTechnica weighs in with some Start Menu options in a helpful article "Help! I've got Windows 8 and I miss my Start menu! (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/01/help-ive-got-windows-8-and-i-miss-my-start-menu/)"
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Pokki just upped-the-ante with their idea of a Start Menu for Win8 (https://www.pokki.com/windows-8-start-menu) which includes its own app store!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ngfdG0-16yk/UPjkMMsctNI/AAAAAAAAL5w/0qu1fbM-S4s/w497-h373/Untitled-1.png)
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So I'm still sorta on the fence, leaning towards just biting the bullet and grabbing it while its still on sale. Probably wont install it until after I beat Borderlands 2 just to make sure I dont screw that up, though I will remember to back up my saves.
Ugh...so much stuff to back up.
EDIT: Ok, think I got most of the important stuff backed up except the save games. Those I'll get closer to when I actually switch over. Also gives me time to remember the stuff I've probably forgotten to back up.
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Win8 people might want to check this out (http://www.neowin.net/news/stardock-reveals-modernmix-run-and-resize-modern-windows-8-apps-on-the-desktop).
Basically, ModernMix allows Windows 8 owners to run all of the Modern apps such as Netflix, Xbox Music and more on the desktop, along with the ability to resize those apps in a window. You can even pre-set the Modern app window sizes so they stay the same size every time you launch the app. You can also pin the Modern apps on the desktop taskbar for a quick launch. Finally, the Modern apps running under ModernMix have minimal, maximum and close buttons on top, just like regular desktop Windows programs.
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So I've pretty much come to hate Windows 8. I have tons of problems with it, though to be fair it could be caused by Start8, immature Windows 8 drivers for a machine built for Windows 7, or the fact that I upgraded from Windows 7 rather than doing a reinstall.
Even without the problems I have, I definitely feel that Windows 8 is a completely unnecessary upgrade unless you have a touchscreen. In fact, in many ways I think that it is worse than Windows 7 as a (non-touch) desktop or laptop operating system.
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Heather has it on her laptop. Seems buggy as fuck to me. I was considering it after reading some positive stuff, but no way I'm touching the thing at this point. I'm happy with 7.
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I heart Stardock!
Damn, Scott. What kind of problems are you having?
I agree that if you already have Windows 7 there's no real need to go for Windows 8. That said, the way I'm using Windows 8 I don't need to experience the "touch" parts of the interface at all. It looks and feels like a refined Windows 7, including improved resource management and the few improved desktop applications (Task Manager, file transfers, etc.).
I've got one system running on an upgrade from Win7 and the other running on a fresh installation. While I haven't experienced any major issues with the upgraded one, I prefer the cleaner appeal with the fresh one, without any excess or residue from a prior OS.
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I have experienced zero bugs. I only did feel some when I installed it and selected to keep Windows 7 programs during the upgrade options. That was a big mistake and I had to reinstall.
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Damn, Scott. What kind of problems are you having?
Most of the time when I log in, all I see is the desktop background, the Computer desktop icon, the Start8 icon in the taskbar, the taskbar itself, and the clock. When it is in this state, i can't do anything. If I mouse over the taskbar it just displays the hourglass. It takes about a minute to a minute and a half to show the rest of the desktop and for me to be able to do anything at all; however, even after this I have no sound or network icons in the system tray and I have to manually restart explorer.exe to get them back. This is all with a SSD which flew under Win7.
IE10 frequently gets in a state where it is completely frozen for up to two minutes. It does unfreeze eventually. Firefox has no issues.
I hate how clicking a mailto: link opens the Modern UI Mail app, which I didn't even configure, rather than Outlook 2013.
I really, really hate Modern UI on my traditional laptop. It really has no place in the non-touch world and I should never have to see or use it.
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Most of the time when I log in, all I see is the desktop background, the Computer desktop icon, the Start8 icon in the taskbar, the taskbar itself, and the clock. When it is in this state, i can't do anything. If I mouse over the taskbar it just displays the hourglass. It takes about a minute to a minute and a half to show the rest of the desktop and for me to be able to do anything at all; however, even after this I have no sound or network icons in the system tray and I have to manually restart explorer.exe to get them back. This is all with a SSD which flew under Win7.
IE10 frequently gets in a state where it is completely frozen for up to two minutes. It does unfreeze eventually. Firefox has no issues.
There's definitely something wrong there. It doesn't seem like a hardware issue. It could be a registry problem, judging from the symptoms you mentioned. t definitely should not be operating like that.
I hate how clicking a mailto: link opens the Modern UI Mail app, which I didn't even configure, rather than Outlook 2013.
I really, really hate Modern UI on my traditional laptop. It really has no place in the non-touch world and I should never have to see or use it.
Yeah, the defaults always go to the stupid Modern UI apps, like viewing images, but once you change the default it should be fine. Specifically, the MAILTO protocol can be changed in Control Panel then Default Programs; you can either set Outlook as your default program for all mail operations or you can click on "associate a file type or protocol..." and only set MAILTO to default in Outlook.
It just sucks that by default Win8 always tries to force feed you the Modern UI apps.
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Tweaktown -> Windows 8.1 will bring back Start Menu; satisfaction level currently for Win 8 is around Vista levels (ouch!). (http://www.tweaktown.com/news/30571/windows-8-causes-microsoft-s-customer-satisfaction-rating-to-drop-to-vista-levels/index.html/index.html)
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Tweaktown -> Windows 8.1 will bring back Start Menu; satisfaction level currently for Win 8 is around Vista levels (ouch!). (http://www.tweaktown.com/news/30571/windows-8-causes-microsoft-s-customer-satisfaction-rating-to-drop-to-vista-levels/index.html/index.html)
Correction: it will only add a start button not the start menu. The start button will effectively only take you to the start screen. Apparently the biggest issue with Win8 interface is people are having a hard time getting to the start screen and don't know where to click to do it by just looking at the screen.
My opinion: too little, too late. Other start button and full start menu options are readily available. MS should be focusing on improving the experience by making the Start Screen a more useful place to be compared to the desktop. It doesn't even display the time and date.
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So you can download Windows 8.1 now from the store app which I did a little bit ago. I effectively hated the Start screen but I'm going to try again with this latest update and see if I can adjust better to it since its basically still there but small changes were made to make it more something like Windows 7. I was using Start8 before but I uninstalled it before this update. Here's how my desktop looks with the start screen now. I pretty much removed most of the stuff it defaults on and customized it to something I would usually click on if there was a start menu.
(http://i.imgur.com/T5aLpGX.jpg)
Oh jeez, I guess the boards auto resized it. Here's the actual image size. (http://i.imgur.com/T5aLpGX.jpg)
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Looks nice. I found that other interface completely unusable. Heather's got it on her laptop and has sort of gotten halfway used to it, but even she gets totally lost at times. And man, talk about bloat. There's so much fucking packed-in BS with Windows 8 it's not even funny.
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Pyro, where can I get that background image? :)
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I've been getting my backgrounds from the Star Citizen website (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link), the concept art on there is some awesome sci-fi stuff.
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Sweet, thanks!
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I just found this ad for "the new Windows" in my inbox. No mention of numbers. I guess they're trying to get away from the Win-8 stigma by downplaying the number.
That does look more palatable. I'm still not buying a new PC, but at least I won't cringe so much if I end up having to.
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I'm going to be trying a new install of Windows 8.1 on my (non-touch) work laptop. It has Windows 8 now which was an upgrade from Windows 7. I have a lot of problems related to networking and power utilization. For instance, after resuming from sleep, I have to wait 3-5 minutes before networking works. Sometimes I have to reboot to get it to work. Also, when the screen sleeps, for some reason something in the laptop really starts working. The fan runs at full speed and it's not just a bug that make the fan run full speed; it pumps out a lot of heat.
I'm hoping that a fresh install of Windows 8.1 fixes these problems. I'll probably keep using Start8 instead of the Windows Start screen regardless of its improvements. If I still have problems I am going to go back to Windows 7, which worked flawlessly before upgrading to 8.
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This article is useful. (http://www.pcgamesn.com/10-coolest-new-features-windows-81)
Ok not really, but I had to share.
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TL;DR:
Steve Hogarty 1 Day ago
Nope, in all seriousness I don't believe there's any real reason to pay to upgrade from Windows 7 yet.
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Since my curiosity often gets the better of me, I decided to run some experiments on a Zotac ZBOX, which is a HTPC with an Nvidia ION chipset, 2GB RAM. Basically, it's not powerhorse of a system and it gets the job done for basic needs. Think Netbook in the formfactor of a tiny box you can hang on the back of your monitor or TV.
(http://www.blogcdn.com/es.engadget.com/media/2010/05/zbox-zotac.jpg)
Initially, we got this little box in 2009 and it had XP set up on it. It was clearly a "bare essentials" kind of system. You can browse but it was choppy, and you could watch standard definition (SD) videos with no trouble, but run an HD video on it and you could see it struggle and sweat.
A while back I set up Win7 on it and it was performaing surprisingly better than XP. It could handle the "Aero" look but it certainly did better with the classic look. I switched the resolution down to 1366x768 to compensate. It was clearly a low-end system but it got the job done.
I installed XBMC and set it up as a multimedia HTPC, but even XBMC chugged a bit on it. Overall, it was a passable user experience and you could watch stuff on it with relative ease.
Anyway, down to current events, I just decided to wipe it and I installed Win8.1 on it.
Holy monkey.. This is where the "behind the scenes" enhancement of Win8's architecure really shows. The ZBOX is performing markedly better than I had ever seen, even at 1080p. I am thoroughly impressed with how smooth it's running compared to before (with WinXP and Win7). XBMC is a lot smoother too.
With the ION chipset, this system is basically an equivalent to a tablet or other portable device, which Win8 was built to run on as well. There's definitely a lot to be said for Windows 8.1 that's not on the surface. I suppose I have to admit that something good for PCs came from the industry-wide push for portable devices.
Next up, I'm gonna test it out on an HP mini 210-2060 with an Intel Atom chipset, 1GB RAM, which came originally with Windows 7 Starter (WTF) but currently has Ubuntu 14.04 running on it.
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I like Windows 8.1. I still don't like the Modern UI part of it and use Start8, but is basically like a better Windows 7 to me.
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Whatever happened to the reported return of the Start screen (officially)? Is that update still coming?
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I like Windows 8.1. I still don't like the Modern UI part of it and use Start8, but is basically like a better Windows 7 to me.
Yeah, the Modern UI side of things are pretty much wasted. I am using the Start screen though, for all intents and purposes it does technically function just like the start menu, I just line up all my shortcuts there. FOr the life of me I don't understand why you can't at least see the clock there! :P
Whatever happened to the reported return of the Start screen (officially)? Is that update still coming?
Well, the Start screen is still there but I think you're referrring to the return of the Start menu. That update is still not out. The current rumour is that it will be part of the next major update, perhaps Windows 8.2.
The changes in 8.1 are subtle but they do make a difference especially for desktop users. I like the fact that now prioritizing the desktop is the default and you don't need third-party software to make your PC work the way you want it.
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Well, the Start screen is still there but I think you're referrring to the return of the Start menu. That update is still not out. The current rumour is that it will be part of the next major update, perhaps Windows 8.2.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Thanks.