Overwritten.net
Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: Pugnate on Monday, May 20, 2013, 10:14:44 PM
-
The new Xbox launches in a few hours.
So excited. OK not really. Interested though.
-
Should be interesting. I'm going to try follow the news and then make a post about it, unless someone beats me to it. Which is probable.
-
Its called Xbox One.
(http://d35lb3dl296zwu.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/image/11368/LB_4338.jpg)
-
It's... ugly. I realize that's not a very constructive comment, and that what it looks like is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things other than for marketing, but seriously... it looks like a VCR.
-
Reveal broadcast is on now. I'm watching on the 360, but it's all over the web too.
-
It looks like a VCR because based on that conference thats what it is.
Specs include 8 core CPU, 8GB RAM, 500GB HDD, bluray drive, USB3.0, wifi, blah blah. Controller has been redesigned with an improved dpad (lets hope for real this time) and force feedback on the triggers. Kinect in every box, though its supposed to be all super improved.
Lots of voice command and TV-based shit. "Xbox, HBO" and now you're watching HBO. There was a great troll where there was TV stuff, then "Oh hey Forza 5. Plus MS studio has 15 games in development including 8 new IP!"....oh shit, now they are talking about Halo! Halo! Now we'll see some actual game foota....Halo: The Television Series. No shit. Epic troll.
And then they did more sports crap with the NFL and ended showing a little Call of Duty Ghosts. Fin. It was pretty lame.
-
Oh boy... (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/407912/microsoft-confirms-pre-owned-fee-for-xbox-one/)
Microsoft has confirmed that all Xbox One games will require mandatory installation onto the system's hard drive and, to install the same disc onto another user's drive, a fee must be paid.
Individual games will be tied to Xbox Live accounts, Microsoft said, meaning that the software giant can detect whether a game has been sold to a retailer and repurchased, or handed from one friend to another. In such instances, the second user must pay a fee.
"On the new Xbox, all game discs are installed to the HDD to play," a Microsoft representative told Wired.
The company added that, once discs are installed on the hard drive, games can be played without a disc being in the tray.
Guess that explains why EA dropped their online pass program.
-
Not that I would have gotten one anyway, but... Jesus, yeah, count me out.
-
I'm definitely out unless the basic fears are proven wrong over time, lots of time. If I buy a console anywhere near the end of this year, it will have to be the PS4. I'll more likely wait to see how that develops as well. Late next year is a better time to decide.
Yes, that was shockingly lame.
-
Yeah, that's probably a deal-breaker for me. I mean, I really don't play enough games for it to be a huge, crippling issue, but I also enjoy having the option of buying a three year old game used for $20 on the spot at a store without having to track down a new copy online or paying some retarded fee. If I do get another console, I might as well stick with Sony.
It will certainly be interesting to see what Sony decides to do with this. On one hand, the free money represented by instituting a similar scheme is probably pretty tempting and won't really harm them, given that the competition is doing it. On the other, they probably have potential market-share to grab from the people who buy games weekly or something and probably end up purchasing a lot of new ones.
I'm also going to have to assume that the fee for installing a game on a second machine is probably pretty steep to prevent people from buying, installing, and returning or selling right away for maximum resale. That or they'd have to track the actual serial numbers and only allow it to be installed on one machine at a time. Or have time-activated disk checks.
-
I can't imagine the used reactivation fee is going to be any less than current MSRP of the game. Otherwise one person buys it and everyone else takes a discount by passing the disc around.
-
This scheme can't work without online registration and activation. That alone is a deal breaker for me. But it gets worse. Apparently, devs are being encouraged to use a cloud service to do things like host a part of the game, like Diablo 3. You don't even get all of the game you paid for in such cases. Even if I soften my stance in the future to milder intrusions like activation, this I'll never accept.
-
Yeah, that makes sense, but it seems like they designed a kind of compromise here where you could still get used games at a discount but the studios/MS would get a cut. If they're going to charge the full MSRP they may as well have just not let it play used games at all. I'm thinking they must have some kind of check to see how many copies of any given disk is installed at a time and possibly scale the price based on that. No other copies installed - much lower fee. Any other copies installed - you're paying full price.
Also, I had a hunch and checked the WiiU boards on Gamefaqs. They're praising the heavens because the new Xbox "sucks" and it's going to save the WiiU. You know...because it's big and looks like a VCR.
-
Nothing can save the WiiU at this point. But the PS4 can gain a lot of traction by playing against this Microsoft power grab. If they come out strongly in favor of the console freedoms we've had for decades, advertise the hell out of it, they could come out well on top worldwide, with a closer battle in the US.
-
I really want to see Sony own on this. After the 360, I feel like Sony deserves my dollar more than MS, and feel they care more about their customers. I know that's relatively subjective, but my experience on PS3 was infinitely superior to 360, and I don't feel nearly as spat in the face from Sony as from MS, even though I've not traditionally been a fan of either company (and even rallied against Sony several times for various sub-par products in the past). Overall, I feel like Sony has exemplified consumer care far more than their competitor. My personal jury is still out on Nintendo, but at this point it doesn't matter because I can't afford to be fiddling around with next-gen consoles. I will probably invest in one due to the age of the others and my ongoing need for at least one console-based gaming system that also acts as a multimedia hub, but my guess right now is that this will most assuredly be the PS4 over any other. I can't see anything else meeting my standards, at this point. That could potentially change since we're still early in the game, but the WiiU and Xbox One have already alienated me completely.
-
Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109): If I’m playing a single player game, do I have to be online at least once per hour or something like that? Or can I go weeks and weeks?
Harrison: I believe it’s 24 hours.
Kotaku: I’d have to connect online once every day.
Harrison: Correct.
-
They never once denied or hinted at denying this kind of DRM since the rumors started. Is anyone surprised that they turned out to be true? My mind is very clear on what it means for me. It makes things easier, really.
-
This is the best thing to come out of this event. (http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353010/kinect-trouble-xbox-one-reveal)
-
Nice. I'd say /thread, but it could in theory get better from here.
-
This is the best thing to come out of this event. (http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353010/kinect-trouble-xbox-one-reveal)
LOL @ this comment and meme a few posts down:
(http://i.imgur.com/t7xmKly.png)
-
-
Destructoid asks if the NEW XBO Controller will work on the PC. (http://www.destructoid.com/will-the-xbox-one-controller-work-for-pc-gaming--254247.phtml)
We spoke with Microsoft Studios' corporate vice president Phil Spencer today immediately after the Xbox One reveal presentation, and during our chat PC gaming came up. I took the opportunity to ask him if the lovely new Xbox One controller (http://www.destructoid.com/hands-on-and-up-close-with-the-xbox-one-controller-254236.phtml) will work for PC gaming, as the current Xbox 360 controller has almost become the standard for PC controller options.
Spencer shot us down on a definite answer, saying that they're not talking about the connectivity to PC just yet. But he did give us some hope:
"We're completely wedded as a company to the success of PC," Spencer told us. "It's important to us at Microsoft. I think you can kind of fast forward on some things, and clearly, looking at what we did with [Xbox] 360 controllers..."
Spencer left it at that, but you can see where he's going with this. We're betting it'll make for a fine PC controller.
Don't kill me, mouse/keyboard loyals.
EDIT:
Shacknews -> Kinect for XBO also will come to the PC. (http://www.shacknews.com/article/79307/kinect-for-xbox-one-coming-to-pc?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
-
Calling it - the dog dies.
-
Is it me....or should XBox Won (One) should've been really called XBox Lost...? :o
-
Shacknews -> Kinect for XBO also will come to the PC. (http://www.shacknews.com/article/79307/kinect-for-xbox-one-coming-to-pc?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
I think if people have $200+ to blow on a PC accessory, from everything I've heard its going to be an Oculus Rift. Plus its a display and not input so building in support for it in a game would be far easier than a Kinect. Hope they can make the Kinect cheap.
And I hope they do bring that controller to PC. I hate those non-answers they give. They have to know the answers to these things by now, right?
-
I think the PS4 vs. XBO console war is over... ;)
Sony's CEO (parody) speaks:
https://twitter.com/KazHiraiCEO/status/336910138478837760
CEO Kaz Hirai
@KazHiraiCEO
The PS4 is clearly the better than the XBOX ONE as 4 is greater than 1. This graph will make it clearer: pic.twitter.com/HTBn7d5iSu
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKzx_GWCQAAQuUO.png)
-
Is it me....or should XBox Won (One) should've been really called XBox Lost...? :o
Honestly, aside from the registration, always online thing (don't get me wrong - this is a huge deal to me), I don't really see why this reveal was such a disappointment. I could be totally wrong, but they actually revealed more info than Sony did at their conference, did they not?
-
I think if people have $200+ to blow on a PC accessory, from everything I've heard its going to be an Oculus Rift. Plus its a display and not input so building in support for it in a game would be far easier than a Kinect. Hope they can make the Kinect cheap.
So, if we use XBO Kinect on PC - would we have to say "PC Off?" Or "XBOX OFF?" :P
And I hope they do bring that controller to PC. I hate those non-answers they give. They have to know the answers to these things by now, right?
Great way to annoy PC gamers w/ this 1/2-assed answers, eh?
You'd think they'd just announce "XBO controller will work on both PC and XBO" - it would make gamers on BOTH platforms very happy. If a PC gamer, XBO gamer, or a gamer who does both wanted to dabble onto another platform w/ XBO controller, it wouldn't be a problem -win-win situation!
But, no - Microsoft has to screw that up, too...
-
Honestly, aside from the registration, always online thing (don't get me wrong - this is a huge deal to me), I don't really see why this reveal was such a disappointment. I could be totally wrong, but they actually revealed more info than Sony did at their conference, did they not?
Why are we overlooking the "aside" things?
I think the "aside" things you mentioned (limited used game restrictions, once a day connection required, anything DRM related) are the BIGGEST problem w/ the M$ announcement.
Of course, do gamers really care about having more TV-stuff integrated into their console?
{Eyebrow raised}
-
Hahaha! It took me a while to realize it might be something like this.
-
Rev3 -> Discussion w/ Adam Sessler of Rev3; Spike TV's Geoff Keighley; and Kotaku's Stephen Totilo on XB1's always on, used games, etc:
&feature=youtu.be
-
Is it 1983? Why does it look like an old VCR?
-
I actually think it looks a lot like the NES.
-
I actually think it looks a lot like the NES.
Haha yeah, it does! They went crazy retro with the look.
Aesthetics aside, we really don't know too much about from this event. Hopefully E3 will shed more light not just on the console itself but the titles we can expect. At this point though, the PS4 is still significantly more appealing, and we haven't even seen the console yet.
-
People are going apeshit over the reveal. Wasn't impressed by the online requirements, but they definitely showed more than Sony, so why the hate?
-
People are going apeshit over the reveal. Wasn't impressed by the online requirements, but they definitely showed more than Sony, so why the hate?
I think what was revealed was so much more disappointing than the looming mystery of what we have yet to know about the PS4. I wasn't impressed by anything I saw but I was mildly intrigued by the Kinect facial recognition and heartrate but only because those ideas have been floating around for years. Everything else was nothing special or particularly new.
-
I don't think the PS4 has much else. Don't get me wrong, I will probably go for the PS4 but the internet seems to be overreacting a little.
-
I don't think the PS4 has much else. Don't get me wrong, I will probably go for the PS4 but the internet seems to be overreacting a little.
Yeah, I mean it was really the same sort of features that were announced. More concerning is the Xbox One's potentially strict online requirements and the fact that most if not all of the features and services will only work for people in the North America or Europe, just as they do right now.
In the Middle East we can't watch TV on the Xbox 360 even with a US-region gamertag; these region-specific services are just not available to the worldwide community. It stands to reason we will opt for a console that caters to our wants, needs, and availability.
-
People are going apeshit over the reveal. Wasn't impressed by the online requirements, but they definitely showed more than Sony, so why the hate?
I can see where the hate is coming from. Not everyone wants or gives a shit about an all in one multimedia box, some people just want to play games on it and this press event hardly showed anything concerning that.
-
Well, so far it shows that the Xbox has the same functionality of a PS4 with a lot of extra optional stuff.
Anyway, it all seems like a reversal this year.
Last time around it was the PS3 getting the flak for the multimedia stuff!
-
I think Belmont is right. Going back to the Sony thread they didn't show a whole lot either, but they had actual game footage up on screen, and wasn't Watch_dogs a live demo? The only live demo MS had was task switching. So if you aren't the kind of gamer wowed by EA Sports titles or yet another Call of Duty the show didn't offer you much of anything to be excited about.
I mentioned this in IRC but this might be because we are so close to E3. I doubt too many 3rd party devs wanted to walk out on stage and blow their load two weeks before E3 and then have no hype at the show.
-
Last time around it was the PS3 getting the flak for the multimedia stuff!
Most of that flak revolved around the pricing of the PS3 so people were finding anything on the system to say "See, X thing is making this system cost so much". It definitely is a reversal though. The pricing for these systems is where the line is going to be drawn for a lot of people.
EDIT: This is completely unrelated to my previous post, but Microsoft has confirmed that all of the TV stuff is going to be for Gold members only. So to watch your cable TV channels, Netflix, and any other streaming service, you have to not only pay the streaming/cable/content provider, but you have to pay $60 a year to Microsoft to access it. Un-fucking-believable. The sad part is, people are going to do it without hesitation.
-
It is also USA only.
-
Can't help but bring this back to Sony for a compare & contrast: all basic functionality is available to all PSN/SEN users, including streaming/Netflix etc. PSN Plus gives you access to very few and very specific exclusives but it also gives you discounts on certain purchases as well. That's aside from the monthly free game you get access to for as long as you're a Plus subscriber. If Sony got one thing right during the PS3's lifetime it's Plus. They don't take basic services away from their users and re-wrap them up as "exclusive subscriber services," Sony actually give benefits and bonuses to Plus subscribers, making it tempting and inevitably worthwhile to become one. I still have a hard time believing "you have to be a Gold member to play online" and that people actually pay for it.
I'm having a great experience with Plus so far and I will certainly be renewing my subscription. As for Microsoft's decisions? Just one more reason to stay away and I am relieved that I started shifting everything away from Microsoft's services last year; goodbye Windows Phone, goodbye Hotmail. I'm still hanging on to my gamertag due to the few awesome games that wound up in the middle of terrible bureaucratic decisions getting them stuck with GFWL.
-
Well, I think I just found the inspiration for the Xbox One's plain design.
(http://www.mytivo.com.au/assets/images/tivo_angle.jpg)
It looks like a Tivo box or a very generic TV receiver.. Hmm, also kinda like an old desktop pc.
-
-
Hahaha... that was awesome. And seems entirely accurate. Fuck I hate what videogames are now.
-
I think Belmont is right. Going back to the Sony thread they didn't show a whole lot either, but they had actual game footage up on screen, and wasn't Watch_dogs a live demo?
Watch Dogs was again a LIVE Demo shown on the PC.
They ain't shown the console versions yet.
-
10 Kinda Dumb Things About Xbox One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB63w3-vO1Y&feature=youtu.be)
-
Microsoft to PC gamers: "Womp womp" (http://www.shacknews.com/article/79308/microsoft-wont-cater-to-traditional-desktop-pc-gamers-with-first)
-
I blame the fans and jurnos who orgasmed when MS said they would revive PC gaming recently. I don't know how people constantly buy into MS bullshit.
-
People buy into basically any and all bullshit given to them by anyone. Nobody fucking thinks anymore.
-
It was all a transparent attempt to sell Windows 8 etc. I remember all the press releases that were being eaten up.
Really, I blame the video game journalists. Probably the most corrupt breed of journos anywhere.
-
This article (http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-death-of-used-games-and-control-of-the-second-hand-market-could-be-the) is the biggest pile of horseshit I've ever read.
-
This article (http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-death-of-used-games-and-control-of-the-second-hand-market-could-be-the) is the biggest pile of horseshit I've ever read.
Spinny Arcade!
-
This article (http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-death-of-used-games-and-control-of-the-second-hand-market-could-be-the) is the biggest pile of horseshit I've ever read.
It's good news in the sense that it will save me a lot of money. No temptation to buy into it. Now let's see how Sony handles the same self-serving, anti-consumer issues.
-
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/5-features-new-xbox-that-are-about-to-ruin-everything/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=fanpage&utm_campaign=new+article&wa_ibsrc=fanpage
edit:
This has to be one of the most poorly written, terribly researched pieces of 'journalism' on the internet. Terrible piece from Cracked.
If I make a mistake on the Tribune, I am required to add an unconditional apology etc.
Here, the writer lies about something then just adds this: "EDIT: I have been told that actually you can do this now just by pushing the "input" button on your remote control."
You can do this NOW? No you dumb fuck, the facts didn't change after you wrote the piece. You didn't do your research and just wanted to finish your '5 things I hate' article. Uhhh... I hate this new world of journalism where all the ad revenue comes from clicks, so websites which publish the most sensational piece of crap are getting most traffic.
-
If you weren't convinced Ben Kuchera was an idiot by that PA article...
(http://i.imgur.com/SHkmjVp.png)
The responses are fun to read. (https://twitter.com/BenKuchera/status/337603477817659395)
Hey Ben, let me let you in on a secret: they don't stay "next gen" forever, but the internet requirement will.
Oh man, if just gets better.
(http://i.imgur.com/KkR6Nvm.jpg)
At least Patrick gets it.
(http://i.imgur.com/0zHtZ3K.png)
EDIT: Looking at other tweets it sounds like Patrick is going to do a dumptruck on this topic with McElroy.
-
If anything, this will increase piracy. People will be angrier than ever and without the ability to ever sell anything you once bought, I imagine many will say fuck it, not worth it, let's just hack the console and steal the shit. I don't follow that logic at all.
But hey, whatever. Maybe this will convince more people to stop wasting their fucking lives playing too many videogames. I love it as much as anyone, but it's just gotten ludicrous. We pump too much money into it even when we can't make the time to play the stuff we've bought. We don't need more of the shit. We need less. This has completely removed MS as a choice for me, so hey... awesome. Limit the playing field. That means Nintendo and MS have both disappeared for me personally, which leaves just the PC (and mostly indie games there) and the PS4. That's a lot less temptation.
-
Rock Paper Shotgun (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/23/unlearning-to-share-the-industry-hatred-of-human-nature/) says some things related to this.
-
This article (http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-death-of-used-games-and-control-of-the-second-hand-market-could-be-the) is the biggest pile of horseshit I've ever read.
The only way where used games become extinct on consoles and people won't mind too much (like what happens on PC here) is when they have regularly huge %-off sales the likes that Steam, Amazon DVG, Gamersgate have not too long after game's release and VERY often. There's multiple digital distributors (Steam, Amazon DVG, Gamersgate, etc) & digital services (Steam, Origin, Capsule) here battling all of this out, on the PC side - and they're all staying afloat (for now). The competitive nature on PC here is HUGE - and part of the reason we see such aggressive price-cuts/sales.
I just don't see - if Microsoft is the only real service here in real control here monopolizing that XB1 - offering up these kind of sales that we see on the PC.
The more I look and think about this - the more XB1 consumers look screwed, to me.
EDIT:
I should also note, Valve also does other "different" experiments on Steam - like w/ TF2 Hats and the new Steam Trading Card Beta program - for even more additional ways to try to make $, just in case moving units at low prices ain't enough for them.
-
Rock Paper Shotgun (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/23/unlearning-to-share-the-industry-hatred-of-human-nature/) says some things related to this.
John Walker. I will remember his name. That was an inspiring bit of philosophy. By his yardstick then, I still have nearly perfect freedom. Only once did I buy a game that requires perennial online permission, and that was a blind mistake. Fool me once, and all that. My resistance has not been futile.
-
Is this how used games will work? (https://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137)
This is how we’ve been told it will all work:
A gamer walks into a retailer and hands over the game they wish to sell. This will only be possible at retailers who have agreed to Microsoft’s T&Cs and more importantly integrated Microsoft’s cloud-based Azure pre-owned system into its own.
The game is then registered as having been traded-in on Microsoft’s system. The consumer who handed it over will subsequently see the game wiped from their account – hence the until now ambiguous claim from Phil Harrison that the Xbox One would have to ‘check in’ to Microsoft’s servers every 24 hours.
The retailer can then sell the pre-owned game at whatever price they like, although as part of the system the publisher of the title in question will automatically receive a percentage cut of the sale. As will Microsoft. The retailer will pocket the rest.
Unconfirmed reports on ConsoleDeals.co.uk suggest that retail’s slice will be as little as ten per cent. That’s a significant cut from what it has become accustomed to from pre-owned sales and more in line with what they would receive from the sale of a new game – hence, the value of the pre-owned market to the retailer is effectively destroyed.
MS hasn't made this official information yet, but this is apparently what retailers are saying.
-
Needlessly complex. This is a fantastic opportunity for Sony to smash through. Under price the 360 and make it a point not to add convoluted rules to the used PS4 games market.
Win.
-
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7490161408/hDA5CF9F2/)
-
Jimquisition -> Jim Sterling (of Destructoid) on the whole Used Games Debate. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7370-When-The-Starscreams-Kill-Used-Games)
-
That was awesome, even if the guy is more than a little strange.
-
I can't watch it. I actually can't stand the guy because I think he's pretty inane and pandering to the point that I have a feeling every single point he makes is probably something I've seen on Reddit in the past week. More than anything, though I can't watch it because I know it will make me want to play Devil's Advocate, and I really don't want to do that.
-
why he dressed like asshole?
-
OK I watched half and I can't watch anymore.
You know what the problem is? These guys... that kid from Penny Arcade and this Jim Sterling... do they have business degrees? Why the hell are we listening to them talk economics? This is what is messed up about video games journalism. You have people with no qualifications, speculating out of their asses, and then raising a hellstorm from equally stupid readers who don't know what is correct.
Both of these people have opposite views and they are just talking and people are eating up their nonsense because no one knows better.
You know why publishers take the lion's share of profit? Because they invested it all. Most games are selling at losses, so obviously they deserve the profit.
What exactly is the cost of a retailer? What is their investment in a product? Who knows? Maybe for them, making $4 off a $60 video game is a good enough margin.
I am so tired of this shit.
-
So someone who works at a retailer said stores make $10 a game.
I replied:
$10 is BRILLIANT. It is absolutely brilliant. What is the investment of a store in a multimillion dollar game? Why is this a bad thing. What's wrong with you people? Why are you listening to this jackoff who knows nothing about how to run a business, talk business?
If I am running a store, and someone is placing their product there and offering 20% to me, and I am moving a large quantity of units a day, I'd be like sure, that sounds OK.
-
Dude, I think you would like Michael Pachter, check out an episode of Pack-Attack!
-
Oooops. I watched it.
And again, I think he's totally fucking retarded. Luckily, he annoying as shit personality didn't convince me to play devil's advocate, it just convinced me to point out that he went about this totally sideways and is .....well, wrong.
Killing off the used game market is bad for two groups of people:
1.) People who buy used games
2.) People who sell used games
Pretty simple, right? Killing off the used game market is awesome for the following groups of people:
1.) Publishers
2.) Developers
3.) Hardware manufacturers
Killing off the used game market really doesn't matter to the following groups of people:
1.) People who don't buy used games
2.) Everyone else
So, taking the first set of groups into account, why in the fuck would you focus your argument on the people selling the games? No one gives a fuck and no one SHOULD give a fuck about the sellers. They've been living the dream and they probably had opportunity to head this off, and yet didn't - like the music industry they kinda missed the boat.
His claim of $2 per game sold for a retailer is skewed. At one point I had access to the information regarding how much a retailer I worked for (not as sales staff) actually pulled in on everything in the store and Pug is right - it was a lot closer to $10 a unit. Basically, if you're a sales person for a business which sells big ticket items and pays off of commission on said items, you can basically pull a number out of the computer that is the "cost". That's basically the minimum amount you can sell an item for and have the store "break even". This, however, is not the actual COST of the item to the store but that's probably where his $2 figure comes from because that's what an employee on the floor sees. What it actually is is the COST of the item + the sum of the averages of all the variable costs the store predicted they would encounter whilst attempting to sell this item + the minimum amount of profit margin the store was willing to settle for. Note that in almost any other business but retail the sum of the averages of all the variable costs would be covered by overhead and profit, but in this case it was separated (double dip!). I can't remember what the average rate on that for a video game was, as they were all segmented but item types, but it was realistically about 8-12% allocated to minimum profit margin - potentially higher because they were a price locked and sure sell item.
I remember the actual number being closer to $15 per unit of actual (arguable) profit for the store. That's a shit ton for a small item that brings people into your store on a regular basis (that's the real value for big box stores). The reason for the $2 number is two fold - 1.) it was artificially low because the retailer didn't want to offer an item at "cost" that a lot of employees would buy regularly, 2.) in the case of video games especially, the hidden profit was quite high, as a ton of the costs usually associated in that section were actually covered by by businesses other than the retailer there (was?) also a monetizing system in place for shelf space but I don't remember a thing about it.
So, the retailers are making a fair margin for sure. They are not on actual consoles, if I remember correctly, but that was offset by the high margins on the games and especially the shelf space and marketing program that they had.
The thing is that places like Gamestop were really living the dream. They were selling a product, making a profit on it, buying it back for below market value, and then selling the same product again above market value. Possibly multiple times a year, times millions. And while doing so, they were driving people into their locations in order to be subjected to further marketing for more products and putting them in front of the register where they could make snap decisions to buy whatever came out new again that week. It is seriously every retailers dream a perpetual motion machine of selling the same product for money numerous times with zero liability and someone else covering at least half of the marketing. And it was good for consumers if you want to buy a used game. No one can argue that.
That said, it was absolutely a shit deal for publishers, developers, and hardware manufacturers and obviously, the second they CAN cut that guy out they fucking will. And that's what you see here. No one is being evil, no one is being unfair, they're acting exactly how we should expect them to act. And I can't really blame them.
I have more to say, but this is way to long and I'm just going to stop there.
-
I just wish there was a way to stick it to Gamestop without also sticking it to everyone else.
-
That's the thing. I don't think it's impossible to see a scenario with Steam-like sales, although nowhere to the same extent (he's wrong on that point as well). He's certainly off base on how Steam works - they aren't having sales to compete with other online retailers. This works a little bit differently than brick and mortar because they take a percentage cut of the price while (speculation is) that publishers are actually the ones setting prices and deciding on what's involved in a Steam Sale. Sale discounts usually far outweigh Valve's cut of the original price, so publisher involvement is pretty much the driving force...and they're only really competing with themselves across different digital distribution systems.
I don't think it will EVER really happen the same way Steam sales do now, but it's not impossible.
-
. . .
Killing off the used game market is bad for two groups of people:
1.) People who buy used games
2.) People who sell used games
. . .
Killing off the used game market really doesn't matter to the following groups of people:
1.) People who don't buy used games
2.) Everyone else
. . .
I couldn't disagree more. Killing off the sale of games by those who bought them should alarm everyone who believes in the concept of private property, and the first-sale doctrine that naturally derives from it. Publishers have been hammering this licensing-not-selling fiction into our collective consciousness for, what, decades? They couldn't complete the brainwash with legal muscle or PR, so now they're delivering the coup the grace with technology. The power grab hurts everyone who isn't them, not just Gamestop and game buyers who like to sell off what they have already played.
-
"The power grab hurts everyone who isn't them, not just Gamestop and game buyers who like to sell off what they have already played."
I get what you're saying, but really as far as I can see it only hurts those groups. I can't really think of any major way in which anyone else is really affected in a negative way. Mainly because it can't set any sort of president which hasn't already been set.
But again, don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think this is good for gamers in any way, and I think it was a horrible move for Microsoft unless Sony follows suit. I just find it amazing that Jim Sterling took the shittiest argument against it and ran with that.
-
PC players have been suffering that for a while now. Microsoft is just bring consoles up to speed. I have so many games that I don't play anymore that I wouldn't mind pawning off. Even worse I have extra copies of games that I can't give to anyone else e.g. I have Crysis 2 (Hard copy with CD key) and Crysis 2 Maximum Edition (soft copy with different CD key in Origin) both tied to my EA/Origin account and I can't pass my Crysis 2 on to my brother or anyone.
-
Having put more thought into it, Cobra's argument is by far the best argument for convincing consumers to bypass the Xbox One. I have no idea why Jim Sterling would bypass that in order to argue that retailers are about to experience undue hardship.
-
Thanks for that. Too bad the argument is going nowhere in the marketplace. MS will push their agenda seductively, and they will sell many a crippled console, at least here in the US. There is hope internationally. It's Sony's game to lose now. They have the opportunity. All they need to do is not blow it. If they follow Microsoft into hell, they lose their advantage.
-
Here's one more reason to steer clear of it: Xbox One to be region-locked (http://www.shacknews.com/article/79380/xbox-one-to-be-region-locked)
Regional discrimination has always been a hot topic for me. Archaic notions of region-locking have no place in this day and age of connectivity, be it digital or physical.
-
You don't have to watch all this, I sure didn't. TotalBiscuit is apparently against used games.
CliffyB linked it on Twitter as if it was the end of the discussion. David Jaffe apparently agrees. They are so very, very wrong. I only watched half the video but I didn't buy into many of the arguments at all. No more wear and tear? Wait, isn't that a good thing to have solved? And I don't give a shit about Gamestop or GAME(UK). If the industry wants to hurt them or have them go away, fine. But you shouldn't have to trample all over everyone else to get there.
I like this article on GameIndustry.biz (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-31-pre-owned-crackdown-is-a-sad-excuse-for-business-innovation).
If you take out the ability to lend and borrow games, the process of sharing enjoyment and entertainment that's been at the heart of my gaming hobby since it began, I don't know that my time or investment in consoles is justified any more. It's terribly sad to think that key decision makers in our industry are now apparently of the impression that "social" in terms of prancing around like a drunken tit in front of a camera is the future of the medium, while "social" in terms of pressing a game box into a friend's hand with a gleam in your eyes and words of praise and enthusiasm on your lips is to be frowned upon and treated as criminal.
Seriously, go read that. He points out the uncomfortable truth that game dev costs have soared, marketing costs have soared, and unless you are CoD you are not going to make that back. They are attacking used games because they think that will mean more sales and a better chance of making that money back, but its not the right solution. Don't kill used games. Kill unsustainable development.
EDIT: Yeah region locking is shit, too. I'm really happy the PS3 isn't region locked. So far I've only imported one game but I am extremely pleased that I wasn't prevented from doing so.
-
The thing Total Biscuit doesn't mention - PC doesn't have ONE service forced onto it b/c PC is chaos and anarchy. On a XBO/X360, you deal w/ XBL digitally or go to retail. On PS3/4, you deal w/ PSN digitally or retail.
On PC, there's competition - there's more than one service here on our platform. Obviously, there's retail - but, it's more than that. Retail is probably not where most people on the PC - especially in somewhere as connected as the USA - are buying their PC games. Many likely have gone digital. Steam is NOT the only platform here on the PC. Steam (the main PC platform, love it or hate it) is competing w/ also GameStop PC App, Gamersgate, GreenManGaming, Amazon DVG, GOG, GameFly, GetGamesGo, G4WL, etc etc etc - in which ALL of these guys are constantly battling for your hard-earned $. If Steam had ZERO competition, do you think they'd have the awesome sales like they do? I would say - probably not.
Also, Steam makes A LOT of money on other things that they do - such as TF2 Hats and the new Steam Trading Card Beta program.
BTW, anyone want to get into Steam Trading Card Beta? ;)
I got 3 invites here.
Also, DRM is stomping so much on consumer rights, it ain't funny. If a game sucks - I should be able to get rid of it, give it away, and/or sell it off to someone else or to some retailer. That was the only good thing about the actual disc being DRM - if I had got rid of the disc, I couldn't play my game, in the old days; it was no longer mine (look at it this way - my rights to play the game got revoked, when I got rid of the disc). On the PC - if I hate a Steam-required game or Origin game - it's mine forever; it's my loss, "Deal with it." They (console companies) could do like GMG Capsule - there would have to be some sort of DRM here in the program, that should handle what games you have, if a game is locked out from you playing, and whatnot - since games on consoles are going to force installs in the future - so I should NOT have access to what was once my game, that I traded to say another gamer or back to the digital store.
I also believe that a game after being around for quite a while, can be had cheap (think like often on sale at say $10-$20 or less), and will have NO MORE DLC/Expansions for it - the SP portions (if there is one) should have their DRM pulled. Seriously - people who pirate games, they're pirating the newest stuff, not what's old.
I don't know - but the more I think about this, the more I think the consumers will somehow get screwed, whether one way or another.
-
Sure, I'd love to check out the Steam Trading Card beta! Thanks D!
-
The Xbox One region restriction kills it for me.
-
Here's one more reason to steer clear of it: Xbox One to be region-locked (http://www.shacknews.com/article/79380/xbox-one-to-be-region-locked)
Regional discrimination has always been a hot topic for me. Archaic notions of region-locking have no place in this day and age of connectivity, be it digital or physical.
I had read about that a few days ago. But it was like hearing that Bernie Madoff also has bad breath. I was already not going to be sending my money that way under any circumstances. It didn't even occur to me to mention it.
-
(http://i4.dealtwith.it/i/n/73a45bae98ee7d15f903ca6a7cac542b/burn%20m$%20burn,%20take%20too%20long%20for%20niggas%20to%20get%20they%20turn.gif)
-
I am guessing that once E3 rolls around people will forget about these issues. In fact, a year from now I am sure the Xbox One will be doing quite OK.
-
I don't think they'll be going under or anything, but I feel like this will be damaging and is an excellent opportunity for Sony. And maybe Nintendo, if they ever get their shit together.
-
Yeah I do agree. I am just saying it is early days. Who knows, maybe Sony has similar plans. They do have a great opportunity. Let's see what they do with it.
It would be sad if MS sticks to its guns, and Sony decides to cater to the fans by giving them what they want, and in the end the PS4 is a flop because publishers are flocking to the Xbox One because its draconian laws appeal to them.
In the end if EA goes Xbox One exclusive (extreme example, I know) because the console suits its business model, eventually, like it or not, most gamers will go to the Xbox One.
I hope none of this happens, but this is a possibility and it could be why Sony may still match the Xbox One DRM.
That being said, the Xbox One seems to have made these things mandatory. If Sony made these things a publisher option, then that would still be good enough to win the hearts of the core gamer audience.
-
It's official:
With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies.
From xbox.com (http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/connected)
Equally official: I will never buy this console as long as these conditions remain.
-
(http://generatormeme.com/media/created/poi4tk.jpg)
-
This article (http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/7/4406170/xbox-one-internet-trade-policy) spells out nicely why this accursed thing should be infuriating to anyone with a long history in videogaming. What depresses me the most is that it will probably succeed. The massively ignorant and uncaring armies of Xbot kiddies are like the zombie apocalypse for the rest of us.
-
I don't know, I don't think they're actually going to get away with it. The amount of backlash on places like Reddit is huge - far more than I've seen for almost anything else to do with gaming. And while those consumers don't represent the majority of the market, they do represent a very large portion of early adopters. Traditionally, boycotts with thing like games aren't really all that powerful, because everyone decides they want to play Spore anyway and just buy it, but with the PS3 and 360 being seen as pretty much interchangeably these days, all Sony has to do is not follow suit and they'll pick up a ton of those who are pissed off.
I don't think the Xbox One will fail, but I do think this will certainly hurt them and they'll learn a lesson. Or at least I hope.
I also got around to watching that Total Biscuit video a bit. He has an interesting perspective in a way. I don't agree with him in his steadfast conviction that you shouldn't be buying and selling used games anyways. That's kind of bullshit because I do believe that if you buy a good you should be able to sell it or do whatever the fuck you want with it. I obviously understand that it's hurtful to those that make the good and if they can find a non-harmful way of making sure you can't do that and don't blame them for trying to find loopholes. Eventually they may, but they'll have to settle on something less restrictive.
Where he does have a really good point, and one that I agree with, is regarding retailers and how their abuse of their influence basically led to this and how they're to blame for the lack of price difference between physical copies and digital downloads. Aside from that, though, I don't think he really has a leg to stand on.
-
I hope you're right. I'm skeptical that any grassroots outcry on the internet is going to have much effect on the juggernaut assembled here. The big boys are all colluding and poised for the kill--hardware, software, distribution and marketing. Sony may not have the option of turning its back on it. What if, for instance, EA decides that as long as Sony doesn't conform to the consumer-raping agenda, it won't support the PS4 nearly as well as the XB1? Sony already said it won't oppose whatever DRM each distributor decides to implement. So while Sony's policy may not require a connection by itself, EA might require it, and Activision, and Ubisoft, etc. The end result would be equally restrictive, one game at a time. That's almost worse, because the system's stated policy in that case effectively would be a lie. At least the XB1 spells it out up front.
What Total Biscuit video?
-
What Total Biscuit video?
This one -> "The Devil's Halibut - Used Games". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M)
It's the one Idol linked to us some few posts up of his, in this thread. (http://www.overwritten.net/forum/index.php?topic=9003.msg119153#msg119153)
-
Ah, another enemy. Thanks for the link.
-
I hope you're right. I'm skeptical that any grassroots outcry on the internet is going to have much effect on the juggernaut assembled here. The big boys are all colluding and poised for the kill--hardware, software, distribution and marketing. Sony may not have the option of turning its back on it. What if, for instance, EA decides that as long as Sony doesn't conform to the consumer-raping agenda, it won't support the PS4 nearly as well as the XB1? Sony already said it won't oppose whatever DRM each distributor decides to implement. So while Sony's policy may not require a connection by itself, EA might require it, and Activision, and Ubisoft, etc. The end result would be equally restrictive, one game at a time. That's almost worse, because the system's stated policy in that case effectively would be a lie. At least the XB1 spells it out up front.
What Total Biscuit video?
Shit. Thank god I'm really good at downloading games.
-
They will get away with it. Evidence is in the sales figures of the Kinect.
Huge backlash against the thing and it still sold like a monster. Look at how much bad press Steam got early on, and look at it now. Granted, Steam is a free piece of software, while this is an actual console, but still.
-
I'd wager the majority of buyers will succumb to things like "it's more powerful!" and "it has Gears of War 5!" Microsoft will prey on the ignorance and the hype they build up. If they've learned anything from the Xbox and the X360, it's that a vast games library can make a console. Even though this time around the Xbox One seems to target more than gamers, they want it to be the quintessential living room device. They're essentially trying to compete with your other living room devices (cable box, DVR, DVD/BR, HTPC, etc.).
Ironically, the PS3 is currently more of a comprehensive living room media device than the X360. Plus if you already have a Sony TV its remote control already works with the PS3 (via HDMI management) so it still retains that "dedicated media device" as opposed to the stigma the gamepad has e.g. when my parents see a gamepad they get confused and don't understand how to use the device but if they use the remote control all of a sudden it's "Oh, I get it!" The actual PS3 remote control that sleek black Sony aesthetic making it fit more among traditional living room gadgetry.
Anyway, before I go off on a tangent, my point is Microsoft's target demographic has shifted this generation; hence the new (gawd-aweful) style of the Xbox One which is geared more toward traditional living room gadgets. The Xbox and X360 were more-or-less targeting teenagers, as opposed to the PS3 which was a bigger seller among adults, particularly bachelors, and of course the Wii was the family system of choice. Microsoft wants "dad" to want the system first, retaining the "Xbox" moniker is what will keep the kids in.
-
They will get away with it. Evidence is in the sales figures of the Kinect.
Huge backlash against the thing and it still sold like a monster. Look at how much bad press Steam got early on, and look at it now. Granted, Steam is a free piece of software, while this is an actual console, but still.
But Steam was not super-functional upon its original release. It felt more like a DRM-service, back then.
Back then, Steam didn't have Achievements; Big Picture Mode; awesome forums; awesome sales (from Steam or other digital distributors); Friends Lists; fast Internet connections like some of us have now; better software/hardware to really take advantage of something like Steam; Cloud Save support; other useful functions; etc etc.
Plus, offline mode actually works nowadays, for most. Back then, it was really hit and miss for many. {shrug}
-
Yeah Steam sucked in the beginning, and in some ways sucks now too. Despite my commitment to it right now I still recognize its shortcomings.
Anyway, interestingly enough: RedBox creates a forum for gamers to complain about next-gen consoles (http://www.geek.com/games/redbox-creates-a-forum-for-gamers-to-complain-about-next-gen-consoles-1557998/)
It looks like there's some traction for the rental/used games movement from a retailer rather than the general public.
EDIT:
While I was fumbling around online news I came upon this:
Reddit user finds Microsoft worker making positive Xbox One posts? (http://nerdreactor.com/2013/06/07/reddit-user-finds-microsoft-worker-making-positive-xbox-one-posts/)
That's just downright despicable, further souring an already rancid taste in my mouth.. Which begs me to question why I even keep ingesting the stuff. I've already written off the Xbox One.
-
. . . Which begs me to question why I even keep ingesting the stuff. I've already written off the Xbox One.
I know. Some days it feels like a moral imperative, like trying to keep babies away from razor blades. Other days it feels pathetic to keep retreading the same ruts into the ground. They keep reaching for the blades, and laughing at you for trying to stop them.
-
I know. Some days it feels like a moral imperative, like trying to keep babies away from razor blades. Other days it feels pathetic to keep retreading the same ruts into the ground. They keep reaching for the blades, and laughing at you for trying to stop them.
Hahaha yeah, the frustration!
I guess for me the greatest fear is how this can shape (distort) the future of gaming, potentially the entertainment industry as a whole (as Microsoft and various others would have it).
-
$499
The price was the most interesting announcement at the conference.
-
I'm watching the live show thing on the 360, and they just said that the 2 free games per month are yours to keep forever. They specifically said that if you cancel Gold, you still have those games to play.
Hopefully the games aren't always as old as the July ones are.
-
This gets bad.
Looks like things are not only region locked, "Xbox One games are for activation and distribution only in specified geographic regions." (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/pre-order-xbox-one/disclaimer) Those regions are a list of 21 countries. Live in Greece or Argentina? Fuck you man.
There's also this:
(http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/11/118274/2497540-7171076485-3RNJv.png)
I think the wording I've seen is 1.5mbps is the recommended or optimal speed, but still. That seems pretty lofty from what I've hear. Idol is never going to be able to own this system.
-
Why would any of us ever want to own this system? It's like they're trying to get people pissed off now.
-
Are these guys serious? Are they deliberately antagonizing themselves for some hidden agenda?
-
Are these guys serious? Are they deliberately antagonizing themselves for some hidden agenda?
Maybe they want to get back into PC gaming w/ a majorly-revamped G4WL.... ;)
-
Are these guys serious? Are they deliberately antagonizing themselves for some hidden agenda?
The thought has crossed my mind.
-
Man, thats a sales pitch. "Don't have the connection for our bullshit? Then you can buy last generations 8 year old hardware!"
Or, you know, a PS4.
-
This isn't even subtle (http://en.reddit.com/user/XBOX365)
Honestly, I don't think it's immoral for a company to plant moles on review sites or message boards. I mean, we just have to know that they're going to do it....you know, because we've known that they have been doing for the last ten years. BUT at least be fucking good at it.
-
haha, reading that guys posts is hilarious.
-
Damn, that guy comes off as a braindead lackey.
-
I am sure it is just a fanboy. PS3 fans used similar arguments in favor of the PS3 and in defense of the price tag because the were getting the 'blu ray'.
-
Several comment sections out there are dotted with such defenses of the indefensible. I hadn't thought of the possibility of deliberately planted moles. The more educated trolls very well might be.
-
I am sure it is just a fanboy. PS3 fans used similar arguments in favor of the PS3 and in defense of the price tag because the were getting the 'blu ray'.
Yeah but it makes less sense to use the argument here when both consoles have it! haha The PS3 was very expensive for a console, especially back in 2006, but both systems had different specifications and hardware. This time, the specs are close (despite the PS4 using 8GB DDR5 RAM and the Xbox One using 8GB DDR3 RAM) if not the same, in terms of hardware no one can one-up the other, it all boils down to service and price. On those merits alone, Sony is kicking the snot out of Microsoft, as was illustrated in several animated GIFs :P Add to that the possibility of changing hard drives and that the PS4 may actually be technically superior (down at the nano-second level) and you've got a clear winner.
-
No I mean back then the blu-ray drive was the cause of the added expense of the Playstation over the Xbox. This time, it is the Kinect that is causing the Xbox One to be more expensive. The PS4 doesn't come with its own camera thingee.
Same argument back then when the PS3 cost more because of the expense of the Blu-Ray.
-
The difference? The Blu Ray drive wasn't inherently stupid and had the potential to help all games with all the extra space.
Still, there was no denying that the system was too expensive for the time and it obviously hurt their sales for the first year or two. The problems with the perception of the Xbox are an entirely different can of worms.
-
OK, but ultimately the Blu-Ray was still $100 extra for something gamers didn't want. You can talk about extra space advantages, but it didn't make much of a difference considering the competition did just fine playing the same games from DVD.
The only real use of Blu-Ray was to watch films. I can argue that Kinect is more of a benefit to games than Blu-ray.
In the end, personally speaking, I bought the PS3 because of the Blu-Ray, not in spite of it. But I am the minority. There was a lot of hatred for the extra cost of the PS3 because of the Blu-Ray.
Xbox One has other problems aside from the extra expense because of a peripheral no one wants. The DRM, the used game stuff etc.
But I see the exact same arguments being made by Xbox One people not winning to jump ship, as the PS3 fans made for the extra cost they were paying. (My console of choice is more expensive than yours because it comes with a nifty piece of hardware, yours skips out on.)
In the end, I think whatever hardware a system boasts, it must be at a sweet spot in terms of price. I think the sweet spot is $299, though probably opening price is $399. Try to cram as much as you can in that $400.
-
I think the thing is that with the PS3 the only real complaint was the price. With the XboxOne, on the other hand, the price is just a small drop in a giant bucket of complaints
-
I do agree that it is a collection of problems.
-
Xbox One. It's got 99 problems but Blu-Ray ain't one of them.
-
Xbox One. It's got 99 problems but Blu-Ray ain't one of them.
Ha! :P
I don't get why Microsoft is messing with the formula that made the X360 successful.
-
Ha! :P
I don't get why Microsoft is messing with the formula that made the X360 successful.
Given the more PC-like specs for these new consoles, games can now go full-blown HD w/ high-res' textures, audio, etc - just like they do on PC (think Bioshock: Infinite, Hitman: Absolution, RAGE, TSW, Max Payne 3, etc) and many of these games are over 20+ GB.
That'll fit on one BR.
Easier than dealing w/ multiple DVD discs.
{Shrug}
But the problem w/ BR could be - how much does Sony make per-BR disc?
M$ must hate giving them $ per BR-disc sale.
-
MS has some major PR issues to handle. This article (http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030/New-Xbox-sin-against-all-service-members-) got tweeted by MSNBCs Rachel Maddow.
-
Given the more PC-like specs for these new consoles, games can now go full-blown HD w/ high-res' textures, audio, etc - just like they do on PC (think Bioshock: Infinite, Hitman: Absolution, RAGE, TSW, Max Payne 3, etc) and many of these games are over 20+ GB.
That'll fit on one BR.
Easier than dealing w/ multiple DVD discs.
{Shrug}
But the problem w/ BR could be - how much does Sony make per-BR disc?
M$ must hate giving them $ per BR-disc sale.
How is any of that radically different from what we already have? Current consoles do HD and games with huge sizes. What does that have to do with a perceived need for new restrictive policies? The PS3 already handles Bluray. The specs of Gen 7 were also PC-like when it launched.
MS has some major PR issues to handle. This article (http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030/New-Xbox-sin-against-all-service-members-) got tweeted by MSNBCs Rachel Maddow.
I saw that yesterday. Yes, PR nightmare. I don't see how anyone at Microsoft could be surprised about it, though.
-
How is any of that radically different from what we already have? Current consoles do HD and games with huge sizes. What does that have to do with a perceived need for new restrictive policies?
Wait...I thought we were talking about why is M$ going to BR...
X360 uses DVD, not BR.
-
Nah, we were just talking about the price difference between the consoles and saying that the PS3 was more expensive this generation due to BR (although I think a lot of it was the Cell development), and that was a major criticism. With the new Xbox, it's more expensive and does have more features, but the price isn't the leading reason people don't like the console.
-
Xbox One. It's got 99 problems but Blu-Ray ain't one of them.
Yea well, it is Kinect now. If you don't get what I was saying, then I am giving up. Seriously, slow much?
-
The Blu-Ray drive was expensive at the time per unit, and it is what Sony ultimately said (more than cell development) pushed the PS3's price so much higher than the 360s. Sony stubbornly kept the Blu-Ray as part of the PS3 console, even though gamers didn't want to pay extra for that feature.
Here, the Kinect on its own costs what, $150? The only reason the Xbox One is so much more expensive than the PS4 is because they, (like Sony insisted with the Blu-Ray in the PS3), are insisting on including the Kinect as part of the package. I am sure they are still selling it at a loss. The original Kinect add on sold well, but the curiosity factor is now gone. Unless they can make Kinect 2.0 sexy.
So I hope you get what my point was now Sirean. If you don't, I am sure MysterD can explain it to you. (in short, I am not saying the cost effective blu-ray drive is a problem now)
-
Nah, we were just talking about the price difference between the consoles and saying that the PS3 was more expensive this generation due to BR (although I think a lot of it was the Cell development), and that was a major criticism. With the new Xbox, it's more expensive and does have more features, but the price isn't the leading reason people don't like the console.
What really bothers me is the arrogance. How can they be that arrogant? I remember that guy who got fired on Twitter for those insensitive comments, but look at it now. They said they have a console for people who don't have an internet connect. It is called the Xbox 360.
Either they are just dumb as fuck, or they know something we don't. Are they about to get their hands on an exclusive publisher?
-
Sy was just making a joke/reference to the Jay-z song "99 Problems" and was essentially saying Xbone has plenty of issues unrelated to the cost of the hardware.
-
Yeah, I get the reference. I thought the joke was in response to what I said. If he wasn't, I apologize.
-
Yeah but it makes less sense to use the argument here when both consoles have it! haha The PS3 was very expensive for a console, especially back in 2006, but both systems had different specifications and hardware. This time, the specs are close (despite the PS4 using 8GB DDR5 RAM and the Xbox One using 8GB DDR3 RAM) if not the same, in terms of hardware no one can one-up the other, it all boils down to service and price. On those merits alone, Sony is kicking the snot out of Microsoft, as was illustrated in several animated GIFs :P Add to that the possibility of changing hard drives and that the PS4 may actually be technically superior (down at the nano-second level) and you've got a clear winner.
The difference is that now the Xbox One forces the Kinect down your throat while the PS4 has kept its camera an optional $40 addon. Back then Blu-Ray was the thing being forced down our throats.
Blu-Ray is much cheaper to add to a console then it was 10 years ago.
-
The difference is that now the Xbox One forces the Kinect down your throat while the PS4 has kept its camera an optional $40 addon. Back then Blu-Ray was the thing being forced down our throats.
Blu-Ray is much cheaper to add to a console then it was 10 years ago.
Yeah but the PS3 was that much more expensive for more than just the Blu-Ray drive. It had a CEL processor, a faster GPU, and initially larger built-in hard drives (3 options 40GB, 60GB, and 80GB) [20GB was Japan-only at the time]. It was technically a superior device, so you were paying for more than just a Blu-Ray drive, but where it failed was its difficulty to develop for and hence its relatively smaller game library.
Plus, it serves to mention that the PS3 was also a region-free device, it was just PSN and publishers that imposed any form of restriction i.e. a Region 1 game would work on a Region 2 PS3 so long as the game's record was available on PSN for Region 2, alternatively you can create a Region 1 PSN account to guarantee it. On the X360, if you got the NTSC model it would not read PAL games and vice versa. This went on until some publishers decided to go with multi-region or region-free game discs. That said, both were inextricably bound to what the developers and publishers wanted in the end.
Now, the spec difference between the PS4 and the Xbox One is virtually negligible yet the Xbox One is still at least $60 more expensive if you pack the cost of a PS4 Eye with a PS4.
Sony found a way to hit a launch price sweet spot and that will serve them well. We've yet to see what Microsoft has planned for the next few months. They could intentionally be marketing a "redemption campaign" since tales of fallen heroes redeeming themselves appeal to the human psyche. I just hope we don't reach a point where naïve gamers go like "Oh, they have all these games on Xbox One? All is forgiven!" Fuck dat!
-
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/05/07/ps3-price-could-drop-100-due-to-blu-ray-diode-supply/
As blue-laser pick-up heads (PUHs) for use in the PlayStation 3 (PS3) are expected to increase in supply and decrease in price, the production cost of the game console could be reduced by as much as US$100, according to Taiwan-based makers of game consoles and components.
Eventually the price of the Blu-Ray diodes fell enough for the PS3 to be able to match the 360. It is estimated that the Blu-Ray diodes were costing the PS3 an extra $250 to $300!
I don't know why you guys didn't know how much the Blu-ray cost. Maybe I am just in a bad mood and I apologize, but I feel like everyone here is arguing for the sake of it. I mean if you guys are going to throw opinions, please tell us how you formed those opinions?
Maybe because I've read Sony management also admitting that the Blu-Ray player decision was the single factor in pushing the price so sky high. Yes, other factors had a hand in the PS3 price, but components in the end don't cost so much. Without blu-ray, the PS3 would have probably matching or within $50 of the Xbox 360.
Yeah but the PS3 was that much more expensive for more than just the Blu-Ray drive.
Yes, but then have you considered that the price different between the PS3 and 360 was greater than the price difference between the Xbox One and the PS4 now.
The Xbox 360 launched at $400, the PS3 launched at $600. The price difference was of $200. The average quality Blu-Ray player at the time was $800+, and the PS3 was considered the best. It just seems like common sense.
Yes, it including extra USBs and other stuff, but really, when it comes to mass production of components, these things don't cost that much. Without Blu-Ray, I have little doubt that the PS3 would have been at least $150 cheaper.
Right now the Kinect is a really expensive add-on that to me, has shades of the Blu-Ray saga with the PS3. Gamers don't want it, and it is the single factor in what makes the price difference of $100. With the PS3, the single biggest factor was the Blu-Ray, which accounted for a huge chunk of that $200 difference last generation.
-
but where it failed was its difficulty to develop for and hence its relatively smaller game library.
Nah. That wasn't a huge factor. All the titles were hitting cross platform. The problem was that it was 1 year late to the 360 party, and it was more expensive. The masses want the price sweet spot.
With the new Xbox, it's more expensive and does have more features, but the price isn't the leading reason people don't like the console.
I dunno, I disagree. I think money is the lead cause of anything. The Wii sold because it had a gimmick AND it was cheap.
I'd like to say that if the Xbox One was $299 and the PS4 was $399, I guarantee you that most of the drones in the public would have been willing to overlook ANY of these current issues for the price.
Or had the PS3 been $600 and the Xbox One $499, again, I doubt you'd have the same reaction.
I am not talking about us, the people with some principles. Talking about the masses.
-
Yep, sheeple do tend to go the way we don't want to go.
Btw, there were several development issues with certain non-exclusive titles that prevented, or in some cases delayed, their release on the PS3. For example, Splinter Cell Conviction never made it to the PS3. Mass Effect never made it, ME2 eventually made it about a year late to the party. Fallout 3, Oblivion, and Skyrim have all been released on the PS3 but had (and still have) numerous performance bugs. It's a testament to the difficulties developers were facing with the platform.
Sony have expressed that they have learned from that experience and that was the drive to move to a x86 architecture.
-
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7559913472/hD1094FD6/)
Mod Edit: Use your leet hacker skills better man.
-
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7559913472/hD1094FD6/
LOL haha
-
One suggestion that I've heard that I really like, is the idea of allowing offline play as long as the disc is in the drive. If the disc is in the drive, the game would work regardless of connection. Remote/family play already requires a connection, just block this if the primary console has been offline for 24+ hours.
I heard someone mention this to someone from Microsoft (I can't remember who, maybe Phil Spencer), and they thought it was an interesting idea, so maybe something like that could get implemented. It seems like that would alleviate most of the online requirement issues.
-
Or, y'know, just get/keep an Xbox 360.
Microsoft's way of saying go buy a PS4 without actually saying "buy a PS4."
-
One suggestion that I've heard that I really like, is the idea of allowing offline play as long as the disc is in the drive. If the disc is in the drive, the game would work regardless of connection. Remote/family play already requires a connection, just block this if the primary console has been offline for 24+ hours.
I heard someone mention this to someone from Microsoft (I can't remember who, maybe Phil Spencer), and they thought it was an interesting idea, so maybe something like that could get implemented. It seems like that would alleviate most of the online requirement issues.
That was my first thought as well when they announced the online check in. I have a hard time believing that someone at MS didn't also have the same idea, and had it rejected. Its just too obvious. But with this backlash maybe they will rethink implementing it. If you could have your Xbone 100% offline and the only "downside" is having to keep discs in the drive (just like every console in history), then that would be great.
-
Oh my.... (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-One-Games-E3-Were-Running-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html)
-
And of course none of these titles will make it to pc proper.
-
One suggestion that I've heard that I really like, is the idea of allowing offline play as long as the disc is in the drive. If the disc is in the drive, the game would work regardless of connection. Remote/family play already requires a connection, just block this if the primary console has been offline for 24+ hours.
I heard someone mention this to someone from Microsoft (I can't remember who, maybe Phil Spencer), and they thought it was an interesting idea, so maybe something like that could get implemented. It seems like that would alleviate most of the online requirement issues.
I think their problem is with piracy and I am sure game discs can be pirated.
-
And of course none of these titles will make it to pc proper.
If all this is true - this just adds to the PR nightmare M$ been having w/ XB1.
And yeah, that makes it even more screwed-up, too - that much of this stuff likely won't hit the PC!
{pout}
M$ could at least use a AMD/ATI card, since XB1 is supposed to be using that! It's hilarious that - they're supposedly flat-out using a more powerful NVidia card!
XB1 being based off of Win 8, yet M$ is using Win 7 - oh, that's just hilarious! Their own employees don't even like their own Win 8 OS, do they? ;)
If all of this is true - EPIC FAIL, M$!
-
Oh my.... (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-One-Games-E3-Were-Running-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html)
This happens at every E3.
-
This happens at every E3.
True...
...but you'd figure they'd at least use AMD/ATI vid card & Win 8 - you know, something comparable to what the XB1 specs are!
-
Power of the cloud. Also notice he talks up the new trigger rumble but then the games are demoed on arcade sticks and a wheel. WTF?
In other news, Firefox thinks I have enough badwidth for Xbox One.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5079764/FFLies.jpg)
How much bandwidth? ALL THE BANDWIDTH!
-
With the "Power of the Cloud" the Xbox One can do things that are technically possible with current gen!
-
Hasn't actually happened yet, but huh (http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/microsoft-to-pull-complete-reversal-on-xbox-one-dr/1100-4673/).
So yeah. There's that.
-
As anticipated, the only way Xbox One stands a chance is by a total reversal. That said, the Xbox One will still cost $499 and PS4 at $399 still gives it the edge.
-
MS confirmed.
-
Yup, confirmed (http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update).
Don Mattrick: Last week at E3, the excitement, creativity and future of our industry was on display for a global audience.
For us, the future comes in the form of Xbox One, a system designed to be the best place to play games this year and for many years to come. As is our heritage with Xbox, we designed a system that could take full advantage of advances in technology in order to deliver a breakthrough in game play and entertainment. We imagined a new set of benefits such as easier roaming, family sharing, and new ways to try and buy games. We believe in the benefits of a connected, digital future.
Since unveiling our plans for Xbox One, my team and I have heard directly from many of you, read your comments and listened to your feedback. I would like to take the opportunity today to thank you for your assistance in helping us to reshape the future of Xbox One.
You told us how much you loved the flexibility you have today with games delivered on disc. The ability to lend, share, and resell these games at your discretion is of incredible importance to you. Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world.
So, today I am announcing the following changes to Xbox One and how you can play, share, lend, and resell your games exactly as you do today on Xbox 360. Here is what that means:
An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games – After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.
Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today – There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.
In addition to buying a disc from a retailer, you can also download games from Xbox Live on day of release. If you choose to download your games, you will be able to play them offline just like you do today. Xbox One games will be playable on any Xbox One console -- there will be no regional restrictions.
These changes will impact some of the scenarios we previously announced for Xbox One. The sharing of games will work as it does today, you will simply share the disc. Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.
We appreciate your passion, support and willingness to challenge the assumptions of digital licensing and connectivity. While we believe that the majority of people will play games online and access the cloud for both games and entertainment, we will give consumers the choice of both physical and digital content. We have listened and we have heard loud and clear from your feedback that you want the best of both worlds.
Thank you again for your candid feedback. Our team remains committed to listening, taking feedback and delivering a great product for you later this year.
-
Damage control.
I still find it ironic and amusing that The Witcher 3, developed by CD Projekt RED (A Polish Developer), would not be playable in Poland since the Xbox One would only function in 21 countries explicitly, none of which were Poland. I guess that worry is settled now though.
-
So, what happens if that Day One patch to patch-out DRM doesn't work? :-X
Or Microsoft changes their mind and re-enables it, after the XB180 actually does numbers? ;)
-
Ah, hell. Things were so black and white, for once. Now it's back to seeing what shakes, and weighing alternatives.
-
Well there is no day one patch to remove the DRM, nothings shipped yet so thats just not going to be in there. I wouldn't think MS would reverse the stance after people buy in because thats just walking into a class action lawsuit.
Patrick is a good games journalist.
-
Patrick was the one who broke the news about the DRM.
He was just on Rev3Games on "Address The Sess" live stream/chat minutes ago, just for a few minutes.
This chat is currently in progress about DRM and E3.
-
I guess its true that you can't (http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905) please (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/xbox-one-eighty-microsoft-fails-to-sell-the-future-retreats-to-the-past/) everyone (http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/19/4446356/back-to-reality-microsofts-new-xbox-one-policies-retreat-from-the-future).
-
Ah, hell. Things were so black and white, for once. Now it's back to seeing what shakes, and weighing alternatives.
hahahaha I know right? Suddenly it is so hard to choose between the two again.
Why MS? WHY?
-
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/998379_386996448071353_11194988_n.jpg
-
Ah, hell. Things were so black and white, for once. Now it's back to seeing what shakes, and weighing alternatives.
Well there is still a day one mandatory firmware update for the Xbox One, so you have to take it online when setting it up for the first time. So at least for me that kinda keeps me out (until the later models and price drops where I assume those updates will already be rolled in).
-
They did this on purpose so the still horrible DRM seems more palpable.
-
Funny enough, Xbox.com and Xbox Live are totally down right now. GFWL is also down but no one noticed (har har).
-
I saw it go down a few hours ago, but I was getting off anyway. I wonder what happened.