Overwritten.net

Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: sirean_syan on Thursday, September 21, 2006, 02:04:56 AM

Title: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: sirean_syan on Thursday, September 21, 2006, 02:04:56 AM
At IGN (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/733/733807p1.html)

I've just started to watch it, but it's basically a video demo with commentary from one of the designers. It's cool to finally see the game in motion.

EditbyQuesez - Just edited this for the title.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, September 21, 2006, 07:24:14 AM
Can't wait to check it out tonight!
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, September 21, 2006, 08:32:51 AM
Wow, now I really want this game! Visually it looks fantastic! The style, the architecture, and the effects are all amazing, but the water specifically blew me away! I need to see hi-res videos!
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, September 21, 2006, 02:09:57 PM
Okay, I watched the video.

This just could be the FPS/RPG I've been waiting to play since Deus Ex....

EDIT:
Looks like there is going to be a lot of its own lingo in the game, like "plasmids", "big daddy," "little sister, etc etc -- a la what the movie Brick did w/ names things such as "brick", "The Pin", etc etc.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: iPPi on Thursday, September 21, 2006, 06:51:16 PM
I am geniunely impressed.  I can't wait for this game to come out now.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, September 21, 2006, 07:01:16 PM
Fucking awesome.  This is pretty much my most anticipated title.  I absolutely can't wait... thanks for posting this.  The water looks pretty impressive, as does some of the lighting.  Love those Big Daddies.  Spooky stuff.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Friday, September 22, 2006, 01:37:05 PM
Fucking awesome.  This is pretty much my most anticipated title.  I absolutely can't wait... thanks for posting this.  The water looks pretty impressive, as does some of the lighting.  Love those Big Daddies.  Spooky stuff.

I liked how in the vid the Big Daddies leave you alone if you leave them alone.
But, get near the Little Sis, they attack. Back off from the Sis after they attack you, they leave you be.

This game graphically and artistically looks awesome.
And so does the gameplay, from what I seen.


Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: ScaryTooth on Friday, September 22, 2006, 05:34:03 PM
Damn, that looks dope. I need to upgrade my rig here in the near future. I keep putting it off.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, September 22, 2006, 10:46:39 PM
I see the game is kinda like Stalker is supposed to be. The huge environment to explore with all these events happening around all the time, its very much in the same vein. It kinda saddens me about the state of Stalker, because I think Bioshock will probably end up releasing first, and will dampen the effect Stalker will have. One way or the other, one of these games I think will blow us away.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, September 22, 2006, 11:07:55 PM
They both might regardless.  I think STALKER is still striving to be *more* this way than Bioshock overall, so I think it can still be a contender if they just finish the damn thing.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 23, 2006, 06:10:46 AM
They both might regardless. 
I believe so, to.

Quote
I think STALKER is still striving to be *more* this way than Bioshock overall, so I think it can still be a contender if they just finish the damn thing.
I'm guessing Bioshock will be more polished than STALKER.

I have this funny feeling that once STALKER's done, the publisher (I believe THQ is the publisher) will probably force them to release the thing as soon as it is done, but it'll probably won't be polished and will be in a buggy state, since the game has been in the making and been delayed forever -- no publisher wants their big game taking centuries to be done. I'm hoping I'm wrong and that this game will be released in a very polished state.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, September 23, 2006, 09:24:03 AM
They've waited this long already, who knows?  And THQ doesn't have the worst reputation when it comes to that.  *Shrug*  We'll see.

But I think STALKER is going for a more sandboxy kind of thing and Bioshock is going for a tighter story-driven thing just with lots of unscripted events and multiple ways of doing things.  I still see the two as fairly different, even though they use some of the same concepts.  I think they can probably coexist just fine.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, September 24, 2006, 11:18:48 PM
Watched vid. Looks cool. I like when the big daddy walked through the water that was pouring down, it was blocked by his body. It appeared glitchy, so hopefully they can get that sorted out.

Gameplay looks interesting. I'll play just to explore that place.
Title: No Bioshock MULTIPLAYER Component
Post by: MysterD on Monday, January 22, 2007, 02:40:40 PM
NO Multiplayer component for BioShock (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/45432)
Quote
No Multiplayer for BioShock [01:10 pm]
89 Comments - Chris Remo

One of the most anticipated upcoming single-player shooters will fairly expectedly omit multiplayer functionality, confirmed 2K Games community manager Elizabeth Tobey on the official community site for Irrational Games BioShock. "BioShock features a compelling storyline that revolves around the experiences of one man as he enters the decaying world of Rapture," reads the explanation. "Having a multiplayer component would have compromised the story we were trying to tell so we made the decision to keep this game as a single player experience." System Shock 2, the game to which BioShock is frequently referred by the team and its fans as a spiritual successor, featured a cooperative mode.

More interestingly, the Q&A indicates that the game will feature online content downloads of some kind, which with a lack of multiplayer may entail new story content. It notes that content on the Xbox 360 and PC platforms will be identical, suggesting that any downloads are also likely to be made available for both versions. Finally, it was stated that development is being led on the Xbox 360 platform, with "all decisions on HUD and gameplay situations" being made there before being implemented on PC, in order to avoid PC-to-console translation problems such as the team faced with Deus Ex 2: Invisible War.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: idolminds on Monday, January 22, 2007, 02:55:40 PM
Quote
Finally, it was stated that development is being led on the Xbox 360 platform, with "all decisions on HUD and gameplay situations" being made there before being implemented on PC, in order to avoid PC-to-console translation problems such as the team faced with Deus Ex 2: Invisible War.
No, you stupid fucks! You got it backwards! Ugh....


I'm cool with no multiplayer, though. It seems like every game now needs to have MP, which is stupid. Even basic multi takes time an energy that would be better spent working on the singleplayer.

*EDIT*

That HUD and gameplay quote isnt quite right. Here it is from 2Ks site:

Quote
Are there any lessons from Deus Ex 2 that the team has learned and is using when making BioShock?

Many development teams have learned important lessons from previous attempts to bring PC games to the console, though Deus Ex 2 is an infamous example. One of the main things we are doing differently is that we are leading our development efforts with the 360. Therefore all decisions on HUD and gameplay situations that are made on the 360 will be re-thought and optimized when brought over onto the PC.
So it looks like things will mostly be based on the console version, but will be tweaked to be more "PC like" for the PC version as opposed to the game having consolitis.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: iPPi on Monday, January 22, 2007, 05:05:59 PM
Hmmmm... this might actually make the 360 version of the game better... but we'll have to see.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Monday, January 22, 2007, 05:09:55 PM
That HUD and gameplay quote isnt quite right. Here it is from 2Ks site:

So it looks like things will mostly be based on the console version, but will be tweaked to be more "PC like" for the PC version as opposed to the game having consolitis.
As long as they re-vamp the PC version HUD and stuff to fit our PC style of gameplay and interfaces, we'll be okay....

They better not mess that up....
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, January 22, 2007, 11:34:32 PM
I'm a bit less concerned about HUD and control stuff for the simple fact that I'm expecting the game to be less about super-tight combat at all times and more about some of the RPG-like elements, puzzle stuff, and adventure stuff.  Combat too, but maybe less so.  Still, I sincerely hope they give the PC consideration in its own right.  I don't want to buy a console game.

And yeah, I think we can all agree that no MP is perfectly fine.  I hate it when people waste time throwing MP into a game nobody is going to play MP with anyway.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, January 23, 2007, 01:28:22 AM
Quote
So it looks like things will mostly be based on the console version, but will be tweaked to be more "PC like" for the PC version as opposed to the game having consolitis.

I am pretty sure after the Deus Ex 2 fiasco they would be crazy not to have a perfect PC version. Unless they like death threats.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, January 23, 2007, 01:28:38 AM
There's a 720P trailer in Xbox Live.  It's not gameplay footage, though.  (Machinima?  Hard to be sure anymore.)
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, June 08, 2007, 07:32:01 PM
GSpot's got a Bioshock feature up. (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/bioshock/news.html?sid=6172135&tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot).  They played the game for 2 hours, they've got a video interview with Ken Levine, and they've got another thing if you choose the "watch it!" option from the front page which shows a few team members just talking about the Big Daddy/Little Sister pairing (and shows tons of footage which is just awesome).

Be warned, there's a lot of stuff here.  If you're one of those people that wants to be on a total blackout, don't watch.  There isn't anything all that spoilery, but they show some cool combat options and describe them, they show a bunch of combat with the big daddy guys, and there's just a general assortment of cool video.  So view judiciously if you happen to be one of those people who don't want to see anything.

There's plenty of stuff in the written material, too, and it appears the game draws from System Shock 2 in all kinds of ways, even more than some of us might have thought.  This really *is* System Shock 3 in terms of gameplay, apparently, and even the interfaces are going to be similar to SS2.  But, as is stated, they've got a team working on the 360 interface and a team for the PC, so no console encroachment on our territory, PC gamers.  I think we all sort of knew that already, but it still makes me happy to hear it.

Anyway... this thing just looks better every day.  My excitement waned for a while, but it's back with a vengeance now!
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Monday, July 09, 2007, 01:52:02 PM
Bioshock's System Specs for the PC version have been revealed.

Oh, and you'll need an Internet Connection to ACTIVATE your game, BTW... (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/802/802357p1.html)

Quote
BioShock System Specs Revealed
July 09, 2007 - BioShock's PR chick let us know that the PC specs for the game have been announced - does your system shape up?

    Operating Systems:

  # Windows XP (with Service Pack 2) or Windows Vista

    Minimum System Requirements:

  # CPU: Pentium 4 2.4GHz Single Core processor

  # System RAM: 1GB

  # Video Card: Direct X 9.0c compliant video card with 128MB RAM (NVIDIA 6600 or better/ATI X1300 or better, excluding ATI X1550).

  # Sound Card: 100% direct X 9.0c compatible sound card

  # Hard disc space: 8GB free space

    Recommended System Requirements:

  # CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo processor

  # System RAM: 2GB

  # Video card: DX9: Direct X 9.0c compliant video card with 512MB RAM (NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GT or better). DX10: NVIDIA GeForce 8600 or better

  # Sound Card: Sound Blaster¿ X-Fi™ series (Optimized for use with Creative Labs EAX ADVANCED HD 4.0 or EAX ADVANCED HD 5.0 compatible sound cards)

  # Important Note: Game requires Internet connection for activation.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: iPPi on Monday, July 09, 2007, 02:30:25 PM
I'm still undecided on whether to get the 360 or the PC version.  I'll definitely be getting it though, just gotta decide which version is better.  I'm leaning towards the PC version though for the KB/Mouse.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Monday, July 09, 2007, 02:31:45 PM
I wonder if it Bioshock requires STEAM or something, since a bunch of 2K Games have been on STEAM....
And all STEAM games require an "Internet Activation"....
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, July 09, 2007, 02:47:06 PM
They probably would have announced that by now were that the case.  Still, this pisses me off either way.  You don't have to fucking authenticate anything on the 360, why should I have to do it on my PC?  I'm really getting tired of this shit.  Not that big a deal to me anymore given that my only gaming PC has a dedicated connection, but what's the point?  It isn't necessary.  I buy the product, that's it.  The end.  I shouldn't have to do a damn thing more other than install it.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Monday, July 09, 2007, 05:39:59 PM
This whole STEAM dealie is the only reason I didn't buy Lost Planet for the PC.  Buh.  I preordered Bioshock for PC already, so hopefully it's not true.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Monday, July 09, 2007, 05:52:56 PM
This whole STEAM dealie is the only reason I didn't buy Lost Planet for the PC.  Buh.  I preordered Bioshock for PC already, so hopefully it's not true.
Yeah, that's crap for the SP component.

They probably would have announced that by now were that the case.  Still, this pisses me off either way.  You don't have to fucking authenticate anything on the 360, why should I have to do it on my PC?
Agreed.
Especially for the SP.

Quote
I'm really getting tired of this shit.  Not that big a deal to me anymore given that my only gaming PC has a dedicated connection, but what's the point?  It isn't necessary.  I buy the product, that's it.  The end.  I shouldn't have to do a damn thing more other than install it.
Agreed.

Though, I might understand for say a online MMO...

...But for any SP component, I shouldn't have to authenticate anything. If I buy the product on disc, I should be all set for any SP campaign w/ the damn disc. For SP components, the DISC and its copyright protection is the authentication.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 08, 2007, 08:04:04 PM
Two weeks from today and we've got Bioshock in our hands!  I took three days of vacation from work to end the week so that I've got 5 full days to just go nuts and play.  I haven't taken time off for a game since Doom 3, if that's any indication of how excited I am about this.

I've read the OXM review.  If what I've read is any indication, this is almost the perfect game.  Dear God in heaven I hope it runs okay on my system.  It *should*.  I'm way, way far beyond the "can't wait" mark at this point.  It's getting very difficult.

I don't want to spoil anything for those who don't want to read the review (and it doesn't spoil much, really, just a few tiny things, not generally plot-related), so I'll just give you the bullet points, along with those from the PCG review plus a few quotes, which will make you wonder just how much longer you can stand waiting for this.

OXM:

Quote

* Inconceivably great plot.
* Tough, scary combat.
* Perfect location design.
* Stunning soundtrack and audio effects.
* Endless variety of weaponry.

The Score - 10
A rich and brilliant dystopia for everyone.


PCG:

Quote

IT'S
* A horror game.
* A long game.
* A Shock game.

IT'S NOT
* Bugged.
* Demanding.
* About killing kids.

SUBLIME - 95%


Quote
Bioshock is a dark and disturbing masterpiece.

Quote
Even if you've soaked up every preview and trailer with relish, you haven't scratched the surface of how deep this unsettling meditation on hubris and insanity actually goes.  If it were just a thrilling ride through a twisted and remarkable plot, Bioshock would eventually get old.  But there's a physicality and openness to its richly systematic combat that suggests it'll stay fresh for a very long time.

Quote
... these are the big challenges developers have been struggling to master for decades: narrative, emergence, a sense of place.  If another game did just one of these as well as Bioshock, it would immediately qualify as a classic.  When a game comes along that does all three, we can only be baffled and thankful.

I spend my career, and my gaming life, waiting for a moment when a game just astonishes me, when I can't believe what I'm seeing, what I'm doing.  Bioshock has five.

There's also a mention of three problems that the game has, the last of which is the game's ending sequence, which if Tom Francis is to be believed, sucks.  He equates it to watching Citizen Kane with a zombie Orson Welles fighting Agent Smith.  That doesn't sound to happy (though I have to be honest with you, I'd pay to see zombie Orson Welles fight Agent Smith just on its own).

Anyway, if none of you have yet ordered the limited edition of the game on PC or 360, get off your asses and DO IT NOW (http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=647028)!

I'll leave you with two more bits of ambiguity: I read today in another issue of PCG that, and I (not entirely direct, but almost) quote: "This is probably the most PC-improved multiplatform game in the history of gaming."  Meaning, of course, that the PC version is loaded with interface improvements and general greatness that utterly eclipses those of the 360 version.

HOWEVER, it has also come to my attention via the OXM review that there are going to be extra abilities and such for the game that you can download from Xbox Live that will be exclusive to the 360 game.  At least, apparently.  If you're a 360 elitist I wouldn't yet hold your breath that they won't make it to PC at some point, and given the depth of what's already included with the game, it sounds like you could pretty well play this for a long, long time without ever seeing everything, rendering downloadable content somewhat less appealing.  Still, it's something that might help balance the PC's apparently tremendous advantages in other areas.

Either way, no matter where you play it, it looks like Bioshock is going to be the masterpiece we all knew it could be.  And thank God for that.

EDIT - There's the OXM review if you want to read it (http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=215509).
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: ScaryTooth on Wednesday, August 08, 2007, 08:20:04 PM
yea. can't wait. PC? or XBox? Hmmm.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 08, 2007, 08:22:58 PM
I'm kind of looking forward to it. I want to play it (lord knows we could use a decent story in our games...to the people that thought HL2 had an amazing story: fuck you), but I'm trying to not get myself too hyped for it now since there is no way in hell I can run it. Hopefully I can upgrade later this year, and I can take advantage of a price drop.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: HxCeddie on Thursday, August 09, 2007, 06:49:38 PM
I guess it just went gold so it's on track for an August 21st release. I really can't wait to play this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the new Metroid coming out the same day too? Shit, decisions, decisions.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 09, 2007, 07:18:53 PM
No decision for me.  I don't have a Wii.  Though I think even if I did, Bioshock would get the nod.  At this point, I can't even seem to think about anything else.  It's driving me slightly insane.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Thursday, August 09, 2007, 10:40:01 PM
Mmm, after going over some more of the images and whatnot, I'm glad I paid off my copy of Bioshock.  Should be fun.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 10, 2007, 01:40:01 PM
Goodbye, Irrational Games....
...Hello to 2K Games Boston.

I prefer the name of Irrational Games, myself.... (http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=80070)

Quote
Irrational Games Becomes 2K Boston and 2K Australia [August 10, 2007, 3:40 pm ET] - 7 Comments
This press release announces a name change for Irrational Games, which will now be known as 2K Boston and 2K Australia. The changes are said to "symbolize the studios' further integration into the 2K Games family":

    New York, NY - August 10, 2007 -Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO), announced today the name change of industry leading development studio Irrational Games to 2K Boston and 2K Australia. Headquartered in Boston, Massachusetts and with offices in Canberra, Australia, Irrational Games is an internationally renowned developer of story-driven, genre-defining games with award-winning hits like System Shock 2, Freedom Force, Tribes: Vengeance, and SWAT 4. The name changes to 2K Boston and 2K Australia symbolize the studios' further integration into the 2K Games family following their outstanding performance on BioShock™, the upcoming blockbuster available exclusively for the Xbox 360™ video game and entertainment system and Games For Windows on August 21, 2007 in North America and in Europe beginning August 24, 2007.

    "Irrational Games is widely recognized as one of the most innovative development studios in the world," said Christoph Hartmann, President of 2K. "Following their incredible efforts in bringing BioShock to life, we are proud to make the newly renamed Irrational Games studios a cornerstone of our game development family."

    Recognizing the exceptional talent and creative vision that have made Irrational Games one of the industry's premier developers, 2K Games has fostered the studio's growth by substantially investing in its people, allowing Irrational Games to almost double in size since the studio's acquisition by 2K in 2005. With the upcoming release of BioShock - one of the year's most hotly anticipated titles - 2K Boston and 2K Australia, with the backing of 2K Games, are raising the bar for forward-thinking game design.

    "We're proud to be part of the 2K Games family and enjoy the new opportunities and artistic freedoms this strengthened relationship provides," said Ken Levine, President and Creative Director of 2K Boston. "The name change signifies our growing position as a central part of 2K Games, and we plan to ensure our future titles continue to set new standards of quality and innovation for the industry."

    For more information, visit the 2K Boston and 2K Australia websites www.2kboston.com and www.2kaustralia.com.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: ScaryTooth on Friday, August 10, 2007, 02:58:18 PM
Watched the stage demo a minute ago. And now I'm watching it again (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/bioshock/media.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=tabs&tag=tabs;videos)

*Drool*
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 10, 2007, 03:32:10 PM
Watched the stage demo a minute ago. And now I'm watching it again (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/bioshock/media.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=tabs&tag=tabs;videos)

*Drool*

Ooooh....Telekinesis Skill looks nice.
Though, the floating upside body he was using Telekinesis on was pretty cool that was shown in the video.

I like how almost anything can be used as a weapon.

That camera weapon sounds cool, too -- that w/ enough of a Research skill and if you take pictures of enemies, you can learn some skills that enemies have. Too cool.



Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: ScaryTooth on Friday, August 10, 2007, 05:25:14 PM
I have a feeling I'm going to play through this a few times. It seems like there are so many things you can do with your character.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 10, 2007, 05:27:46 PM
I have a feeling I'm going to play through this a few times. It seems like there are so many things you can do with your character.

It looks like it'll be quite a sandbox, for finding out cool ways to defeat enemies and stuff.

I'm curious at to how many endings the game might actually contain....

...I'd guess, at least 2 different endings, given from what Levine is hinting at in that awesome E3 Floor Show Demo video on G-Spot -- he says there's there's two moral decisions, which can change the game majorly.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 11, 2007, 11:25:24 AM
It's already been stated that there will be 2 endings.  Old news.

Anyway, I just listened to the 1Up podcast in which a guy sort of gives a mini-review (about 10 minutes of talking between him and the other guys), and I'll just quote you a few things from it:

Quote
Bioshock takes the big-ass steel gauntlet and throws it the fuck down in front of any other game for game of the year.  I'm saying it potentially will beat the shit out of everything else out there, yes, including Halo 3, yes, including Mass Effect.

Quote
Even if you just straight stream through it ignoring everything you could to get through it as fast as you can, it's going to take you easily, easily over 12 hours. It's well over 20 hours if you're playing the game and having fun with it. ... You're going to play it more than once.

Quote
Absolute showpiece for the 360.  I can't tell you how many times I walked up to the edge of one of those aquarium-like connectors in the city, in this tunnel with Plexiglas, and just stood there and looked out the glass window at the city and was just like... the fuck, this is amazing.

Quote
Once you pick up the controller and go into Rapture, you will not want to put it down. -- Is it atmosphere?  Is it controls?  Pacing?  -- Yes, yes.  Yes.  Let me tell you what, the pacing might be the best pacing in a first-person shooter ever.  There's one stretch where people might say 'this is a little hokey', but outside of that... even that I don't think is bad... outside of that, every time you pick up the controller to play it, you're like, I wanna' do this, I wanna' do this, I wanna' do this. ... It handles the gunplay so incredibly well, and the AI of the enemies you play against is phenomenal. ... You feel like you're dancing around these environments fighting them in almost like a multiplayer game.

Quote
Best first person shooter ever, really? -- No, not the best first-person shooter ever. -- In terms of the way the story unfolds? -- Yeah.  --  Better than Half-life or Half-life 2? -- Yes, absolutely. This is the imagination that has gone into this... this crazy, I'm gonna' be an industrialist and build this Utopian society, and then this examination of what happened inside. ... These guys really thought out the answer to why this utopia failed.

Quote
The conclusion on this game... not only is the conclusion satisfying, but the lead up to the conclusion brings everything home really, really well.

MyD, don't you dare respond to each quote, or I will strangle you with your own fucking intestines.

To me, what this means is that Bioshock is exactly what I hoped it would be - System Shock 2's basic gameplay and design principles modernized to be truly next-generation, wrapped in beautiful art design, a completely unique story and setting, and with improved, tightened, actual-honest-to-goodness FPS gunplay.

This game needs to come out yesterday.  I'm going to lose it.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, August 11, 2007, 11:45:26 AM
You can rearrange the letters of "Bioshock" into "sick hobo".
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 11, 2007, 11:49:57 AM
I'm so going to post that at the fan site just to see what happens.

EDIT - Neat interview with the people who made the Big Daddy statues that some game stores are getting (http://rapture-gazette.blog.co.uk/2007/08/11/studio_oxmox_interview_english_version~2781041).
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 11, 2007, 04:22:30 PM
All this Bioshock talk, got me going back to play System Shock 2 earlier this afternoon -- which I barely started.

All I can say really about SS2 -- Whoa, WAY THE HELL ahead of its own time, in terms of gameplay. Yeah, it rocks. No way around that one. And the Inventory system is so well designed and easy to use, too. I'm sorry, but this game STILL holds up today -- especially in terms of gameplay. My God -- this game's ahead of most FPS's in the gameplay department that have come out in the past God knows how many years.

We're really just seeing the mainstream jump-start of the FPS/RPG hybrid genre these past few years, with games like Deus Ex series, STALKER and now Bioshock hopping onto the market (STALKER and Bioshock in the same year -- hell yeah!!!). Plus, we'll get more STALKER next year, w/ the STALKER Prequel (STALKER: Clear Sky).

If Bioshock is System Shock 2 in the gameplay department -- and it looks like it'll be more than that, given the level of interactivity we saw in the Bioshock vid -- we might have this year the arrival of one of the best games ever made. I dunno, but Bioshock's atmosphere looks like Atlantis in the 50's gone wrong -- and it looks freakin' awesome. The graphics and art design just look incredible.

Quote from: 1Up
Best first person shooter ever, really? -- No, not the best first-person shooter ever. -- In terms of the way the story unfolds? -- Yeah.  --  Better than Half-life or Half-life 2? -- Yes, absolutely. This is the imagination that has gone into this... this crazy, I'm gonna' be an industrialist and build this Utopian society, and then this examination of what happened inside. ... These guys really thought out the answer to why this utopia failed.
I dunno, but I have a funny feeling Bioshock and STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl are going to be fighting for FPS Of The Year, for me. There really was something about STALKER's atmosphere and gameworld, in Russia/Chernobyl area -- and just how open that world was, to explore and all. STALKER was definitely one of those games, once I began, I couldn't put it the hell down. I dunno if I've played a better shooter in recent years than STALKER.

Though, I do think Crysis will be great and all, but I don't think it will top the other two (Bioshock and STALKER), for me. We'll see, though...

About Best Shooters Ever, I dunno -- Max Payne 2, STALKER: Shadow, Deus Ex, F.EA.R., HL, HL2, and Quake 2 are some of the best Shooters I've ever played period. The way things look, Bioshock might join that list for me -- it definitely has a very good chance at it, to say the least, given what we do know and have seen of the game already. I've been pumped for this one for a while -- and well, I'm even more pumped for it, now that's it's finally almost here and after seeing that awesome E3 Show Stage Demo.

I can't wait for August 21st. It can't be here soon enough for me.

I'm going back to System Shock 2, now.






 
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Jedi on Saturday, August 11, 2007, 04:25:00 PM
Quote
MyD, don't you dare respond to each quote, or I will strangle you with your own fucking intestines.

Haha Best line of the week. I'll have to get this for the 360, if I'm not too busy playing WoW again.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 11, 2007, 08:30:06 PM
Haha Best line of the week.
Hey, I always expect violent, merciless punchlines and soul-stealing ramblings from Que directed towards MysterD. :P
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 12:21:15 AM
At least I also provide the funny (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/56072255/?q=bioshock&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5&qo=31).
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 04:25:16 AM
Looks like it's gonna be a little more than a week before we'll be getting our hands on it.  I rechecked the system requirements.  Adjusted a few things and I should be good to go.  I think.
But damn it all, I'm gonna need a new video card soon.  What with this, Assassin's Creed and Crysis coming out soon-ish.  I don't know if my card's gonna cut it.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 06:46:47 AM
At least I also provide the funny (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/56072255/?q=bioshock&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5&qo=31).

(http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs17/i/2007/144/6/4/another_bioshock_____by_Fenner.jpg)

Hehe, that's great, Que!!!

I could imagine how awesome Big Daddy's Fatality might be....

Though, for his Babality, does he turn his opponent into Little Sister??? :oP
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 10:10:36 AM
Hey, doesn't Big Daddy look very different in the close-to-finished BioShock?

Original concept:
(http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/02/bioshock_xbox360.jpg)

In-game:
(http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/707/707568/bioshock-20060510075837275-000.jpg)
(http://216.183.112.222/imagesx360/bioshock_16a.jpg)
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 10:20:12 AM
Are there different looking Big Daddies throughout the game?

I like both looks for the Big Daddies, myself.

I wouldn't wanna mess w/ them...
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: ScaryTooth on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 10:31:13 AM
I can't wait to dive into this.

It's running on Unreal 3 engine right?
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 10:41:57 AM
From Wikipedia:

Quote
Known at first as the Vengeance engine 2, this was an enhanced version of the Vengeance engine, based on the Unreal Engine 2.5. As this engine was developed for the game Bioshock, the engine has become known as the "BioShock engine". Later, the BioShock engine was changed to use the Unreal Engine 3.0. but BioShock does not use all of Unreal Engine 3.0's features. As it only upgraded the Unreal Engine 3.0's Unreal Core System, file system framework and UnrealEd Toolsets.[2].

I didn't even know that.  I thought it was still their own thing.

Also, there are several different big daddy designs, and they're all outfitted differently in terms of weapons loadout, etc.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 10:47:08 AM
Damn, I checked the system requirements for this game and I don't want to barely be able to run it, I would at least like to run it on medium, medium-high settings. I was going to get this for PC, but its going to have to wait until I upgrade my system(mainly my video card and processor).  I'm hoping to do that in the next few months though.  Maybe the price will have dropped some by then.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 10:56:27 AM
From Wikipedia:

I didn't even know that.  I thought it was still their own thing.

Also, there are several different big daddy designs, and they're all outfitted differently in terms of weapons loadout, etc.
Heh, now that I think about it the Big Daddies walk kind of like the T:V heavies.
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, August 12, 2007, 02:12:51 PM
Regardless of the very interesting history of Bioshock's Engines and all...

...I just really don't care if it's running on Unreal 2.5, Unreal 3.0, BioShock Engine, Doom 3 Engine, or whatever -- whatever Engine it was running on at The E3 Stage Demo, it looks great -- and I just want this game NOW!!!
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: idolminds on Monday, August 13, 2007, 08:53:22 AM
Bioshock is just another fucking PC FPS. At least according to one potential publisher (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=169973):

Quote
"Ken (Levine) spent years pitching the game to publishers but no one was interested, incredible as that seems now. I joined Irrational in December 2004 and my first job was to get a publishing deal for the game (I worked as the Business Development Director for the first six months). I remember pitching the game to one publisher who later told a friend of mine that it was 'just another fucking PC FPS that's going to sell 250,000 units.'
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: MysterD on Monday, August 13, 2007, 06:17:24 PM
Boy, that publisher will probably be kicking themselves in the ass, given the reviews this game is getting so far and given that X360 gamers are so up for downloading this thing.

I smell that this could just be Irrational's (2K Boston/2K Austraila's) year....
Title: Re: First Bioshock Footage
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 13, 2007, 06:57:19 PM
That's an awesome story.  I love stuff like this.  Been listening to a bunch of podcasts with fun stories as well.  Check out the Next-Gen podcast that had Ken on.  He's really an entertaining guy.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 12:04:56 AM
So it looks like the PC limited edition, which was only available at EB/GS stores, has now sold out.  If you look on the sites there aren't listings for them any longer, though you can still nab the 360 LE.  I hope all you guys got your preorders in already (and I'm sure as hell glad that I got mine done a week or so ago).

EDIT - Also, there was just a great, classic moment on the fan boards.  Somebody made a thread about how Irrational must be racist because there aren't any black people in the game, to which he was immediately hit (and rightfully) with a bunch of replies like: "What, are you stupid?  The game takes place before the bulk of civil rights victories in the mid to late sixties to begin with, and Rapture was created by a Utopian idealist in the nineteen forties.  You see where your logic fails, right?"
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 01:12:49 AM
Having played the demo through a few times, I'm gonna go and pay my preorder out in full.  Just so I don't have to wait for my card to dial up and waste any more time I could be spending on it.

I'll have a beautiful day to play through it before school.  Buh.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 07:50:32 AM
So it looks like the PC limited edition, which was only available at EB/GS stores, has now sold out.  If you look on the sites there aren't listings for them any longer, though you can still nab the 360 LE.  I hope all you guys got your preorders in already (and I'm sure as hell glad that I got mine done a week or so ago).
I pre-ordered the regular version.  I have no interest in a figurine or a making-of DVD.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 08:37:59 AM
I didn't realize this game was coming out next week.

I might go preorder it.  I haven't decided whether to get the 360 version or the PC Version.

I meet the 'recommended' system requirements, but I obviously don't have DX10 or Vista on my main desktop, but the appeal of the KB/Mouse is pretty strong.

On the other hand, I can play it on the 360, with a little different controls, at 1080i on a 62" TV.

Decisions decisions.

Edit: I'm starting to lean towards t he 360 version because the PC version recommends a 7900GT.  I have a 7900GTX, but I doubt I can play it at 1680x1050 with high detail.  It's possible, but I'm not 100% sure.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 01:41:07 PM
So it looks like the PC limited edition, which was only available at EB/GS stores, has now sold out.  If you look on the sites there aren't listings for them any longer, though you can still nab the 360 LE.  I hope all you guys got your preorders in already (and I'm sure as hell glad that I got mine done a week or so ago).
I'm undecided on the Collector's or Reg Ed for the PC.

Anyone else is selling the Collector's Ed for the PC?

I dont' see Amazon got it listed.
Yuh, GS and EB ain't got it listed.
Neither does GoGamer.

Quote
EDIT - Also, there was just a great, classic moment on the fan boards.  Somebody made a thread about how Irrational must be racist because there aren't any black people in the game, to which he was immediately hit (and rightfully) with a bunch of replies like: "What, are you stupid?  The game takes place before the bulk of civil rights victories in the mid to late sixties to begin with, and Rapture was created by a Utopian idealist in the nineteen forties.  You see where your logic fails, right?"
Oh boy.....
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 01:56:39 PM
Far as I know, the LE edition for PC is a GS exclusive?  And looks like they're completely gone now, so you may have to search Amazon or somewhere to see if someone is selling it.
Just paid off the remainder of my preorder an hour ago.  Can't wait till next week to get this.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 06:02:44 PM
Jeezus MyD, you didn't even *read* what you quoted.  I said *right there* that the PC LE was only available at EB/GS stores and that it was sold out.  Your only hope now is inflated prices on ebay.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 10:45:16 PM
I'm sad.  Apparently, some Toys 'R Us-es (?) are already selling their copies of Bioshock.  Highly illegal and highly expensive for them when they get caught...but still, buh.  If I didn't have my PC LE version paid out in full, I'd be trying to get it.  Ah well, here's hoping that the fact that some stores broke street date makes 2K push the street date forward. 
I doubt that'll happen.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 10:49:39 PM
Future Shop isn't doing preorders, I'm hoping to get down there on Tuesday and hope they have a copy of the LE.

I'm leaning towards the 360 version as well.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Tuesday, August 14, 2007, 10:59:28 PM
Argh, apparently, Gamestop will start receiving their Bioshock shipments either tomorrow or the day after.  So, if you're chummy with the local Gamestops, you can try wringing it out of their hands if you've preordered in full already.

Looks like I'm gonna go down to Toys R US tomorrow and see if I can snag a copy anyway.  Add that to the 20% off Madden 08 and 50% off any other video game, I should theoretically get Bioshock for 30 bucks.  Let's hope they still sell it.  Hmm.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 04:55:24 AM
I'm surprised at the number of people choosing the 360 version.  To me this game screams "PC game" through and through.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 05:38:52 AM
I was so close to buying a 360 a couple of weeks ago. It's going for $500 USD here. I held the box in my hands for a moment, then I just put it back. I'd just rather spend the money on building a new PC.

Bioshock is one game I'd definitely prefer to play on a PC.. Mouse + Keyboard all the way.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 05:52:18 AM
It's definitely more of a PC game, but the FPS phenomena has stretched well into console territory of late.  You even have people now who say they prefer using a controller for them (though these people are rare, and also stupid).

Yeah, I followed the whole early release debacle.  My guess is that you won't be able to get the game early anywhere other than Toys R Us, who will end up paying out the ass for breaking the street date.  Your other stores will most likely be playing by the rules.

(http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20070814.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 07:30:49 AM
I'm surprised at the number of people choosing the 360 version.  To me this game screams "PC game" through and through.

Well, I want to be able to play the game in the best possible environment.  My PC has been having trouble booting up lately, I think it's the power supply but I haven't had time to investigate it, and after it does power up, it seems to be OK.  And the second thing is the fact that I'm unsure of how well the game will run on a 7900GTX.  I mean, it should run well, but I question whether or not it will run good at 1680x1050 with high detail settings.

On the 360, I don't have to worry about system requirements, but I do have to get used to the controls and stuff.  But I mean I got an HDTV too, so it's bound to look amazing.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 10:39:48 AM
Yeah, you're not a graphics whore or anything.

GameInformer review:
http://gameinformer.com/Games/Review/200709/R07.0814.1203.13551.htm (http://gameinformer.com/Games/Review/200709/R07.0814.1203.13551.htm)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 11:09:03 AM
Well, I want to be able to play the game in the best possible environment.  My PC has been having trouble booting up lately, I think it's the power supply but I haven't had time to investigate it, and after it does power up, it seems to be OK.  And the second thing is the fact that I'm unsure of how well the game will run on a 7900GTX.  I mean, it should run well, but I question whether or not it will run good at 1680x1050 with high detail settings.

On the 360, I don't have to worry about system requirements, but I do have to get used to the controls and stuff.  But I mean I got an HDTV too, so it's bound to look amazing.

Isn't this why PC gaming is going to hell, really?  You can't depend on your PC to run anything right 3 months after you spend a fortune on it.  There was a time when only PCs could do the graphics right, a relatively short one, between the SNES and the PS2.  Not anymore.

So, are all TRUs selling the game right now?  That would make a car trip to the other side of town worthwhile, if they haven't sold out.  Weird, isn't it?  TRU would be the last place I'd expect this game to be pushed aggressively.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 11:18:28 AM
Mm, I think they've stopped selling the game.  It's been found that many of them already have the game in stock, but the couple stores that have sold it got fined pretty heavily.  All stores have pretty much been told to stop or else.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 02:03:40 PM
I found this part interesting in GameInformer's review for the X360 version. (http://gameinformer.com/Games/Review/200709/R07.0814.1203.13551.htm)

Quote
Everything about this game screams perfection, but there’s one element that might not sit well with you. Rather than dying in battle, players simply respawn at a vita-chamber. The damage dealt to an adversary remains even though the player didn’t succeed.
So, there's like no major penalty or anything if you die???

I do like that in System Shock 2, if you die, you have to find a reconstruction chamber. Once you activate it, you respawn there when you die IF you pay off a certain amount of nanites to be reconstructed at a reconstruction chamber.

Quote
You simply have to go back and clean up your mess to continue on. As intense as the gameplay is, knowing you really can’t fail takes some of the bite out of it. Yes, this system will allow gamers of all skill levels to complete the game – which is a developer’s dream – but it may alienate gamers who only turn to games for a challenge.
I hope this game has a bunch of difficulty levels you can crank up and down, if you so choose.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 02:06:54 PM
This isn't new.  The exact same thing was present in both System Shock and System Shock 2.  If it works anything like those games (and I suspect it does), death simply robs you of the game's currency, which you pay in order to be respawned.  It does make the game easier, perhaps, but not necessarily in as drastic a way as, say, PREY, which just respawned you and sent you back on your merry way almost instantly.  The difference is that in BioShock, the world is full of spawned AIs that randomly wander around getting in your way regardless of whether or not you think you've "cleared" a level.  So if you're low on supplies and in a bad spot, don't think that getting reanimated is necessarily going to solve all your problems.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 02:33:10 PM
Plus the challenge is self-imposed anyway.  You can always play on the easiest setting if you don't want to fight as much to stay alive.  I hate getting killed in a game, even if death is only a short inconvenience.  I still see it as a major failure in what I've set out to do.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 02:59:51 PM
This isn't new.  The exact same thing was present in both System Shock and System Shock 2.  If it works anything like those games (and I suspect it does), death simply robs you of the game's currency, which you pay in order to be respawned.  It does make the game easier, perhaps, but not necessarily in as drastic a way as, say, PREY, which just respawned you and sent you back on your merry way almost instantly.
I hope Bioshock goes the same route.

Quote
The difference is that in BioShock, the world is full of spawned AIs that randomly wander around getting in your way regardless of whether or not you think you've "cleared" a level.
I been playing System Shock 2 -- there are monster planted in levels, but they don't respawn or anything then.

Though, it seems it only spawns monsters when you get caught on camera. Am I right???


Quote
So if you're low on supplies and in a bad spot, don't think that getting reanimated is necessarily going to solve all your problems.
This is true.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 03:09:36 PM
No, monsters do respawn in SS2, and it has nothing to do with whether or not you've tripped a security camera.  At least on HARD.  I haven't played the other difficulties, so I can't say for those.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 04:59:49 PM
Glitch found in X360 Demo.

Someone on the X360 Demo of Bioshock wound up getting knocked outside of a game-map was and moving around outside of the map b/c of the Physics in the game and all.

Watch the vid here. (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/13977)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 15, 2007, 07:42:21 PM
Bioshock from the X360 gets a TEN from Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=81479)

GamesRadar gives Bioshock for the PC a TEN (http://www.gamesradar.com/us/pc/game/reviews/article.jsp?releaseId=20060426172718471012&articleId=2007081595653768046&sectionId=1000&pageId=2007081595737169023)

Quote from: GamesRadar
If you’re worrying about the dreaded taint of consolification, by the way, don’t. It’s clear that the PC team at Irrational are every bit as platform-snobbish as us. There’s a PC-only options menu that lets you turn off the quest compass guiding you to your next objective, disable the golden sheen on mission-critical items, and as for auto-aiming, it isn’t even an option unless you plug in a 360 pad.
Sounds like they ain't botching this PC version one bit.
Amen to that.   

Quote
Also exclusive to this edition is a magnificently intricate PC-only quick-switch menu. Because you can have 19 different weapon ammo types on top of your six Plasmids at any given time, using the mouse wheel can get fiddly. So there’s also a key you can hold down to pause the game and pick any one of those 25 modes of attack with a single click.
Sweet.

Quote
Hacking, too, has been designed differently for the PC to make best use of the mouse - it’s quicker, slicker and less frustrating than the sluggish Xbox controls.
Good.

Quote
The final geekily gratifying thing about the PC version is how well it runs. It was dazzlingly beautiful and hitchlessly smooth on a machine with an Athlon X2 5200 and a single entry-level GeForce 8800 - running DirectX 9. And this was at 1600x900 on max settings.
I wonder how it'll run on my current rig.... (see my specs in the sig).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 12:20:25 PM
If you aren't getting the CE (and unless you preordered it, chances are you won't be getting one), Circuit City next week will have Bioshock PC for $39.99.

Now I sit back and laugh at the morons preloading the game on Steam and paying $50 for their copy and not even getting a disc.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 01:40:01 PM
If you aren't getting the CE (and unless you preordered it, chances are you won't be getting one), Circuit City next week will have Bioshock PC for $39.99.

Now I sit back and laugh at the morons preloading the game on Steam and paying $50 for their copy and not even getting a disc.
Oh, is this why the game requires an Internet Connection on the PC version basically -- b/c it's on STEAM???

So, okay, next question -- is STEAM actually REQUIRED for this game, even if I buy it on DVD at a Retail Outlet????

Or is it like Dark Messiah where you can actually have the choice to...
1. Install the SP and not let that deal w/ STEAM
2. OR install the SP and convert it into STEAM files?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 01:49:48 PM
The Steam crap is bullshit. As usual.

By the way I just checked out the Demo on X360.. Holy monkey.. This game could actually convince me to get a 360.. I know I'm definitely going to buy Bioshock. Now I'll have to see just what the PC features are. If Steam is forced on me it will likely deter me from getting it on PC.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 01:57:52 PM
2K is just selling the game everywhere. Retail, Steam, and Direct2Drive are the ones I know of. None of the versions have anything to do with each other, so if you buy retail you don't have to use Steam (in fact, I don't think you can use your retail CD Key with Steam at all but thats not confirmed). However even retail will need to authenticate itself by connecting to 2Ks servers when you install.

And of course the 360 version doesnt have to deal with any of this bullshit. So I guess thats a plus in their column.

PS, PC demo to be released tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 02:32:41 PM
2K is just selling the game everywhere. Retail, Steam, and Direct2Drive are the ones I know of. None of the versions have anything to do with each other, so if you buy retail you don't have to use Steam (in fact, I don't think you can use your retail CD Key with Steam at all but thats not confirmed). However even retail will need to authenticate itself by connecting to 2Ks servers when you install.
Good. I would like to try and avoid STEAM as much as possible! :P

Quote
And of course the 360 version doesnt have to deal with any of this bullshit. So I guess thats a plus in their column.
Lucky bastards.

Quote
PS, PC demo to be released tomorrow.
Oh, fuck yeah!!!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 03:08:27 PM
2K is just selling the game everywhere. Retail, Steam, and Direct2Drive are the ones I know of. None of the versions have anything to do with each other, so if you buy retail you don't have to use Steam (in fact, I don't think you can use your retail CD Key with Steam at all but thats not confirmed). However even retail will need to authenticate itself by connecting to 2Ks servers when you install.

And of course the 360 version doesnt have to deal with any of this bullshit. So I guess thats a plus in their column.

Huge plus, or rather, the PC-side bullshit is a huge minus.  Maybe bears discussion in the "How long PC's last as gaming platforms?" thread.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 03:35:56 PM
Interesting note, though. If you look at torrent sites the 360 version is quite the popular download, and so far I havent seen a single PC torrent. So maybe its working. For now at least.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 05:39:43 PM
Actually, when I looked at the torrents just yesterday there was like nothing.  Hardly any seeders or leechers.  Weird, I count almost 8000 people leeching one of the torrents now.  Yikes.  Fucking pirates.

EDIT - More stuff from the Cult site.  You can read the last Q&A (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/lastqa.html) which has just been posted.  Nothing all that special, really, though a few nice tidbits about the PC version.

My favorite part of the whole thing:

Quote
How did you juggle making this game for a System Shock 2 audience and a wider FPS crowd?

It wasn’t really a juggle. We thought SS2 was a great game, it just wasn’t a great shooter. So we kept everything that was great in SS2 and added the great shooter part. And we had way more time and way more money than we had when making SS2. BioShock is a game we would have liked to have made 10 years ago if we had the resources.

That's how I always felt about it.  Makes me excited enough about BioShock to just get sick all over the floor.  Aww.

Also, the PC demo is NOT confirmed.  Somebody posted that prematurely, I guess.  2K said that it might not make it out on the 17th (which may indicate that it'll be ready on the 18th?).  Either way, it should be soon.

Lastly, the final version of the official site is now up (http://www.bioshockgame.com/).  Has a couple new things, nothing major.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 06:18:57 PM
I wonder how crazy PC servers will be for the PC Demo tomorrow.

You can count on me DLing Bioshock DEMO for the PC Tomorrow -- I don't care how many GIGS it will be!

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 16, 2007, 07:47:36 PM
IGN scores the X360 version w/ a high score of 9.7 (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813214p1.html)
PC Version review to come late this week from IGN.

FIVE stars from Gamespy for the X360 version of Bioshock (out of 5 stars). (http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/bioshock/813243p1.html)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Friday, August 17, 2007, 06:33:00 PM
I just tried the demo on the 360.  UNBELIEVABLE.  This is an amazing game.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Friday, August 17, 2007, 11:06:35 PM
I'm about to share what is sure to be an unpopular opinion.

I downloaded the BioShock demo the other night after hearing consistently how good it was.  Pyro was there when it finished so he just watched me play through it.  I have never played System Shock 2 (although I have "acquired" it and plan to give it some time).  And this is only a review of the DEMO - so bear that in mind while reading.

**Possible demo "spoilers" so if you want to experience the game as a true and total virgin (read:  Not Lindsey Lohan) then stop reading here.  If you wanna douse yourself in a little bit of the sexual candy that is the demo then keep reading.



First impression upon starting the demo.  :Jawdrop  PRETTTTTYYYYYY!  Water is rendered excellently.  I hung around and watched the plane sink and headed in.  The art-deco style is awesome and terribly appropriate given the timeframe and setting.  Very steampunkish.   They obviously did their homework in the atmosphere department.  The game relied heavily on not just surprise....but anticipated surprise.  You walked around scared to death that something was going to be around the corner.  Sometimes there was, sometimes there wasn't.  There's a tension that isn't there in a lot of games.  It isn't a horror movie scare you sort of thing, it's more psychological than that.  Not as blatant as FEAR but a more appropriate comparision I suppose. 

The graphics are absolutely beautiful.  From the period advertisement/artwork on the walls to the architecture itself, it's obvious a lot of research into the styling took place.  In fact I would say that this is probably one of the prettiest (if not THE prettiest) games to hit the 360 yet, suggesting that the overall power of this console has yet to be tapped completely. 

The sound is gorgeous as well.  It actually accomplishes a good bit more than other games in immersing you into the environment.  No matter where you are, the ocean is still present in the background.  Pipes still clank, etc.  The music is a nice touch. 

The game mechanics are typical FPS.  You get guns and you get magic.  Granted you'll be able to expand upon Plasmids well beyond the capacity of the demo.  Lets be real here.  There's only so many times you're going to be able to reinvent the FPS wheel.  I think we reached the maximum allocation years ago.  A FPS is exactly what it is.  The core elements will always remain the same.  While the developer certainly isn't to blame for this, the game doesn't break any new ground either.  It is a competent FPS.  It isn't the second coming of Christ.

Like I said above, the atmosphere and story is the significant propellant of this game.  Sure, you'll want to experiment with killing the splicers in different ways.  You'll want to experiment with setting traps.  But in the end it's all going to boil down to merely wanting to see what happens next.  It's a fairly long campaign (estimated at 20-25 hours) so there's a lot of story there.  However, once you're done I don't see a lot of potential for replay value.  I think the experience that will be delivered will be great....but once that experience is delivered and there are no more surprises, the game changes.  The second time I played through the demo was much more methodical and plain than the first time.  Not because I wanted it that way, but for me all the surprise was not there anymore.  If that's what a second playthrough would be like then there's no impetus for me to continue it.  There are plenty of games coming out that I want to play (that will offer SIGNIFICANT replay).  This is the main reason why I'm very surprised at the high reviews I've seen.  I think a few years from now people will offer a much more mellow look at the game.

I'm not saying BioShock is going to be a terrible game.  On the contrary, I think it's going to be an excellent game.  However, with my budget, I need to be VERY wary about what games I purchase new at the 50 and 60 dollar price point.  Unfortunately I don't think this title meets that criteria.  It's gonna be a one-shot deal.  You finish the game and most of the thrill will be gone forever.  I forsee this game being widely available used a few weeks after it hits because people will just play through and trade it in.  And it's also hitting at a bad time where we've got Metroid Prime 3 coming out a week after and Halo 3 hitting in less than a month.  For someone that absolutely HAS to be cost-conscious, it just doesn't scream "MUST BUY IMMEDIATELY" to me.

Now, if this were say...April it would be a much easier decision to buy (again, for me personally).  But there's so much good stuff hitting in the next few months that I have to delegate certain releases until a later time....and this will probably have to be one of them.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 02:32:06 AM
We talk about this a little in the latest podcast (which K-Man is on as well), so I won't say too much here.  Just: I think the full version has more focus on variety.  Most people seem to think this one has a pretty high amount of replay value.

Anyway... everyone be really, really careful of CultofRapture.com right now.  Well, the boards at least.  They're having a really hard time with people who got the game early posting spoilers.  Several of these are intentional fuckwits posting the end of the game in thread titles and stuff.  It's pretty bad.  You see this with games in general I guess, but it's worse than usual over there right now.  I'd just plain stay away.  I already more or less had the ending spoiled for me, but fortunately that stuff doesn't really get to me very much, and on top of that I have no idea which of the two endings it is or how it relates to any of the characters (because I really don't know much about them).  Most people would probably not be taking it as well as I, however, so... watch out!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 04:33:29 AM
We talk about this a little in the latest podcast (which K-Man is on as well), so I won't say too much here.  Just: I think the full version has more focus on variety.  Most people seem to think this one has a pretty high amount of replay value.

Anyway... everyone be really, really careful of CultofRapture.com right now.  Well, the boards at least.  They're having a really hard time with people who got the game early posting spoilers.  Several of these are intentional fuckwits posting the end of the game in thread titles and stuff.  It's pretty bad.  You see this with games in general I guess, but it's worse than usual over there right now.  I'd just plain stay away.  I already more or less had the ending spoiled for me, but fortunately that stuff doesn't really get to me very much, and on top of that I have no idea which of the two endings it is or how it relates to any of the characters (because I really don't know much about them).  Most people would probably not be taking it as well as I, however, so... watch out!
Always someone wants to spoil some of the endings -- heh.

Yuh, I stayed away from STALKER's Official boards before I the finished the game b/c there are threads where -- well, people talk about what the SEVEN different endings are; and how to actually "earn" them.

STALKER Spoiler of Who You Are....
(click to show/hide)

But, yeah, back to Bioshock -- that's a shame that the game's not even "officially" out, yet spoilers are popping up on the boards. Good thing I ain't visited their Bioshock boards. I'll stay away, until I actually buy the game and actually finish it. I don't wanna spoil things for me.

I always loved how we having SPOILER tags in our threads on these OW boards. ALL message boards should have those.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 04:50:23 AM
Destructoid Review
10 from Desutrctoid (http://www.destructoid.com/destructoid-review-bioshock-38912.phtml)

IGN PC Review
9.7 for the PC Version of Bioshock from IGN

The review is almost the same as the X360 review, but there is talk about the PC controls instead of X360 controls and a paragraph about the system they ran the game on and how well it ran. (http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/813/813641p1.html)

Quote from: Charles Onyett of IGN
If you're debating which version to get, the PC version handles better. In part it's because of the greater precision with the mouse and keyboard, but also with how the plasmids and weapons are selected. With the default settings RMB switches between the two, LMB fires, and you use the mouse wheel instead of a radial menu to select a specific plasmid or weapon. This keeps you rooted in the action to a greater degree than in the Xbox 360 version, since you don't have to keep pausing the game. By hitting Shift you can bring up a plasmid and weapon selection screen if you so desire, but the mouse wheel scrolled through fast enough to stay useful. Note that you can't set LMB to fire a weapon and RMB to fire a plasmid; there's only one fire function. We also noticed the option to bind the functions "switch and fire weapon" and "switch and fire plasmid," but when we tested it out these only switched from weapon to plasmid and back again, much like the RMB default function. All weapons and plasmids are also bound to the number and function keys, making it even easier to ensure you always have the ideal attack at the ready.
Interesting control scheme.

Quote
The PC version definitely outclasses the Xbox 360, mostly because of the ability to crank the resolution to 1920 x 1200. If you've got a Vista rig with a DX10 card, you can expect some heightened particle effects, crisper real-time shadows, and more dynamic water, but the game looks gorgeous regardless. On our gaming PC running a Core 2 Quad processor with a GeForce 8800 GTX, and 4 GB of RAM, it ran very well, with only a few occasions of seemingly random framerate hitches. We also couldn't find an option to switch between DX10 and DX9 modes, the game just seems to default to what's in your system, unlike Lost Planet.
I'm guessing MOST games should run well on an awesome system w/ a Core 2 Quad, GF 8800 GTX, and 4GB of RAM.


EDIT:
I ain't seen this on TV yet, but this is the TV Trailer for Bioshock on PC and X360 (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/33909/BioShock-TV-Trailer)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 09:55:29 AM
We talk about this a little in the latest podcast (which K-Man is on as well), so I won't say too much here.  Just: I think the full version has more focus on variety.  Most people seem to think this one has a pretty high amount of replay value.

Anyway... everyone be really, really careful of CultofRapture.com right now.  Well, the boards at least.  They're having a really hard time with people who got the game early posting spoilers.  Several of these are intentional fuckwits posting the end of the game in thread titles and stuff.  It's pretty bad.  You see this with games in general I guess, but it's worse than usual over there right now.  I'd just plain stay away.  I already more or less had the ending spoiled for me, but fortunately that stuff doesn't really get to me very much, and on top of that I have no idea which of the two endings it is or how it relates to any of the characters (because I really don't know much about them).  Most people would probably not be taking it as well as I, however, so... watch out!

I was a bit surprised about K-Man's comments about no new ground or replayability, given that he only got to play the demo.  There's no point reinventing the wheel if it's already perfectly round and spins freely.  The mechanics don't concern me.  My understanding from what I've read is that replayability is based on multiple approaches to tackling the game's challenges.  I don't see how this can be sampled very well from the short demo.  My feeling is that the game will be good for a couple of replays at least.  I'm very excited that the game is designed for single-player only.  When's the last time a good single-player FPS came out?  Everything seems to be multiplayer with a short solo component for practice.  I'm not at all concerned about getting my money's worth here.  Whether it's the second coming of anything, we'll have to wait and see.

About dumbfucks posting spoilers, I'd say be careful with the 2K forums as well.  I left as soon as I heard about this kind of shit happening there as well.  I'll stay away from cultofrapture.com, which I didn't even know about until now.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 10:14:04 AM
Well, just stay away from the forums.  Visiting the actual Cult site isn't a bad idea.  They've got a free art book up on there and some other goodies.  They've actually been really, really good to the fans in terms of free stuff and giveaways and trying to keep everyone satisfied with up-to-date information.  It's one of the best official, company-run fan site efforts I've ever seen.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 10:17:30 AM
My feeling is that the game will be good for a couple of replays at least.  I'm very excited that the game is designed for single-player only.  When's the last time a good single-player FPS came out? 
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 11:04:22 AM
Well, just stay away from the forums.  Visiting the actual Cult site isn't a bad idea.  They've got a free art book up on there and some other goodies.  They've actually been really, really good to the fans in terms of free stuff and giveaways and trying to keep everyone satisfied with up-to-date information.  It's one of the best official, company-run fan site efforts I've ever seen.

Oh, the official site for the game.  I already got the art book, although I have not looked at it because of the spoiler (in the foreword page) warning.  Is it something that pops out at you if you're a good reader?  I really don't want to stumble into it.  I went there from your link before.  I didn't realize it was the same place.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 11:10:39 AM
It's actually very easy to avoid the spoilers.  There aren't any visual spoilers, just text.  So skip the foreward with all the text and just look at the pictures that follow (the area with the spoilers has a red warning label above it).  This is mostly concept art from before the game took its current incarnation, and some environmental stuff from the current look.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 05:36:45 PM
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Would you shut up about that game please.

Anyway I'll have to download the demo (360) and give it a burl, Kman has a point about Halo 3 coming out soon and I want to get season 10 of Stargate (next week) so I'll have to watch what I spend my money on for the next 4 weeks.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 05:53:51 PM
I think I can pretty much assure anyone with taste that this game is going to rip off the tiny balls of Halo 3 and shove them into its own eye sockets.  Of course, I'm not a Halo fan, but... yeah.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 06:58:22 PM
I think I can pretty much assure anyone with taste that this game is going to rip off the tiny balls of Halo 3 and shove them into its own eye sockets.  Of course, I'm not a Halo fan, but... yeah.

I cannot argue w/ Que on this one.

Halo 3 will probably most definitely NOT be the (r)evolutionary FPS that Bioshock will be.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: PyroMenace on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 07:03:27 PM
I cannot argue w/ Que on this one.

Halo 3 will probably most definitely NOT be the (r)evolutionary FPS that Bioshock will be.



Thats probably because Halo 3 isnt trying to be a revolutionary FPS and i dont know why we are comparing these games.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 07:05:00 PM
The argument of which is worth the money, I think.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 08:24:04 PM
I cannot argue w/ Que on this one.

Halo 3 will probably most definitely NOT be the (r)evolutionary FPS that Bioshock will be.



Who said Halo 3 was going to be revolutionary? Hmm... no one. And for that matter (while Bio stands to be a great game, and while I am a Halo fan I can see it being the better game) I fail to see how it's going to be revolutionay. I've seen and read nothing to suggest anyhting of the sort, yeah it'll look pretty, but that doesn't mean it'll revolutionize FPS.

It is more of a question of which one would I get first, 'cause I want both.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 08:29:53 PM
The argument of which is worth the money, I think.

Basically.

K-Man said he basically won't buy Bioshock basically b/c Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3 -- all which are sequels and often sequels often don't innovate much to their very own series w/ the very next iteration -- around the corner.

Personally, I think Bioshock will be something truly special and (r)evolutionary for the actual FPS genre itself, whereas Halo 3 will just be "another f**king FPS" (that will sell millions of copies).

You know, it's really sad that b/c of franchised-series games like say Halo and many other FPS's that really do NOTHING new to the genre and not take too many risks, when Bioshock was pitched by their designers numerous times to publishers, one publisher thought of Bioshock as it'll be "another f**king FPS that will sell 250,000 units." (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=169973)

Wait.....was 250,000 the amount of copies System Shock 2 sold? Does anyone have a clue how many copies SS2 sold?





Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 08:51:56 PM
Who said Halo 3 was going to be revolutionary? Hmm... no one. And for that matter (while Bio stands to be a great game, and while I am a Halo fan I can see it being the better game) I fail to see how it's going to be revolutionary.
I have the "R" in parenthesis for a reason -- b/c I think in one way, it's evolutionary. And in another way, it could be revolutionary to the FPS genre.

In one regard, I think the game will be more of an "evolutionary" step in the FPS genre than "revolutionary" -- evolutionary steps to further integrate the FPS and RPG genre together more so and tighter than any other FPS/RPG before it; more so than Deus Ex, more so than System Shock 2, and more so than STALKER.

But, I do say it could be "revolutionary" b/c this could be the game to make that more open-ended style of FPS's suddenly VERY popular -- if the indications of the amount of those going to DL the X360 Demo version this week AND the reviews going through the roof are telling us anything. We all know SS2, DX, and STALKER have their followings -- but, Bioshock could be the one to bring the FPS/RPG genre to major mainstream sale numbers.

Quote
I've seen and read nothing to suggest anyhting of the sort, yeah it'll look pretty, but that doesn't mean it'll revolutionize FPS.
I've already gave a few reasons. Here's more.

I think what will come from Bioshock is we might see, in design, more open-ended FPS's w/ not just finding crazy ways to set traps, perform magic spell-like abilities -- and other ways to go kill things -- but also some different moral decisions that effect the game's final ending/outcome. We know the game will have multiple endings, based on your in-game actions. Often, this is an element found in RPG's. Usually, in FPS's, one pathway, one outcome -- like it or not; which has also been many of the problems w/ the lack of growth in the pure adventure gaming genre, as well.

Also, for an FPS, I dunno, but we don't see just about every object made to be interactive w/ in some sort of fashion -- usually, we see that element in RPG games.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 09:07:48 PM
Quote
I've already gave a few reasons. Here's more.

I think what will come from Bioshock is we might see, in design, more open-ended FPS's w/ not just finding crazy ways to set traps, perform magic spell-like abilities -- and other ways to go kill things -- but also some different moral decisions that effect the game's final ending/outcome. We know the game will have multiple endings, based on your in-game actions. Often, this is an element found in RPG's. Usually, in FPS's, one pathway, one outcome -- like it or not; which has also been many of the problems w/ the lack of growth in the pure adventure gaming genre, as well.

Also, for an FPS, I dunno, but we don't see just about every object made to be interactive w/ in some sort of fashion -- usually, we see that element in RPG games.

None of those are new, they've been done before by other games, in some cases for fraking years. Bio just does them again really really well by the sounds of it. I have no doubt that this game will be a benchmark of what FPS gaming should/could be like for years much like HL1 was. But I still don't think Bio will by re-using these things is going to revolutionize the FPS genre. Sorry I just don't see it.

Look I don't care if the game is evolutionary step or if it brings "the FPS/RPG genre to major mainstream sale numbers" (whatever that means) I just want to be entertained (which I'm sure I will be) and at the end of the day I want more than I can afford in one pay period  :(
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 09:19:02 PM
Basically.

K-Man said he basically won't buy Bioshock basically b/c Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3 -- all which are sequels and often sequels often don't innovate much to their very own series w/ the very next iteration -- around the corner.

Personally, I think Bioshock will be something truly special and (r)evolutionary for the actual FPS genre itself, whereas Halo 3 will just be "another f**king FPS" (that will sell millions of copies).

You know, it's really sad that b/c of franchised-series games like say Halo and many other FPS's that really do NOTHING new to the genre and not take too many risks, when Bioshock was pitched by their designers numerous times to publishers, one publisher thought of Bioshock as it'll be "another f**king FPS that will sell 250,000 units." (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=169973)

Wait.....was 250,000 the amount of copies System Shock 2 sold? Does anyone have a clue how many copies SS2 sold?








The Halo and Metroid series do not need to take risks because it has been established convincingly that the current formula is accepted as good and has a history of success.  If Bioshock is a commercial success, the sequel won't take risks either - meaning it will be another "Fucking FPS that will sell millions of copies" as you so eloquently put it.  In the gaming world, when you mess with a good thing, you generally get bad results.  That's how the business works.  You create a formula.  If it works you stick with it, if not you try something different.  Just because BioShock is a new IP does not mean that it is "(r)evolutionary."  You have multiple ways of completing tasks.  Great.  That's not entirely original.  That has been done before.  There's nothing truly original about this game.  What you DO have is a game that happens to be very well put together with a good storyline/atmosphere and a number of cool magics to play with.  It will be a good game.  It will sell well and probably spawn a few sequels.  Then maybe at that point Bioshock will be the cool thing to hate on.

Both Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3 are wrapping up story lines that I'm very interested in seeing through.  I've been looking forward to MP3 since it's announcement just like Que has been looking forward to Bioshock.  And I know it's the cool thing to hate Halo but the sheer fact of the matter is that it is a very competent FPS series that maintains a huge multiplayer following.  The multiplayer following is what convinces me that it has more replay value than Bioshock (again, personal opinion, etc).  Like it or not, the games are obviously good enough to warrant millions of purchases.  If Bungie were like EA and just phoning in a game or two every year then I'd understand the criticism.  But Bungie (and Retro for that matter) have busted their collective asses making these sequels, and for someone to dismiss it as "another fucking FPS" not only makes me cringe at the stupidity, but takes away from the hard work these companies have devoted to making these games shine.  What's the point in hating a company/series that obviously found a niche that resonated with gamers and made them successful?  The problem doesn't come from those companies, the problems arise a year later when you have 40 copycat variants that invariably spew forth from other companies in an attempt to cash in on the success.

Anyhow, I want to reiterate that I don't think BioShock is going to suck.  Quite the contrary.  I'm just placing Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3 above it in importance (to me, again personal opinion).  I'm going to own Bioshock.  It just probably won't be next week.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: sirean_syan on Saturday, August 18, 2007, 10:29:38 PM
I'm just going to chime in to more or less agree with K-Man here. I really do think Bioshock with be something beyond special, but I'm really limited these days by a few things.

First is time which is going to be pretty non-existent for the next few weeks come Monday.

Second is my hardware computer has aged and I don't have an Xbox360 to fall back on. I definitely want to play the game, but I don't want it run like crap or look worse than it needs to in order to enjoy it. Oblivion and a couple other newer games have shown me that my PC is older than I like if I want to get really into high end games currently. I know Oblivion isn't the best optimized game out there, but I don't want to risk buying it right now so I have to shelve the game for a while until I upgrade my system. Maybe a demo will come out and that will help the choice to buy later on.

Third, and most important, when the other two are taken into account, is freaking Metroid Prime. I can pass on Halo right now (simply because I don't have the Xbox), but Metroid is easily my favorite series out there. Given the choice, I'd almost give up gaming throughout a year for a good new Metroid. Even if it's simply a sequel to Metroid Prime 1 & 2, given the level of quality and difference compared to nearly every game out there still keeps the game fresh. The biggest thing is, Like K-Man said, it's wrapping up something I've been very invested into for the nearly past five years (more than a decade if you want to really get into things).

You refuse to touch consoles so you can't even appreciate the game, D. Don't knock every other game out there because you've forced yourself to believe that Bioshock is so blindingly new that nothing else is worthy of being placed before it. We all already know the game is a spiritual sequel to the System Shock, so it's not like it'll be entirely new. I expect it to be pretty freaking amazing in terms of immersion and structure, but right now I'd just rather see where Samus is going next.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 12:19:30 AM
Don't bother reading D's posts on this stuff.  No offense, D, but you're horribly biased and have no perspective because you don't even own a console.  Just bow out of this particular discussion while you can.

And before this becomes a sad war of opinions, allow me to state the following from as objective a viewpoint as I can muster:

No matter how great BioShock may be, it's obviously perfectly within the realm of reason that someone may want other games far more than they want *it*.  They may not even want it at all!  Nobody should tell you that you should believe otherwise.  However, I think what you *shouldn't* try to say is that the game is anything less than revolutionary, at least not until you've played it and found that to be the case in your own view.  I mean, this is one of the best-reviewed games I have ever seen, right up there with OoT.  Seriously, take stock of what the journalists of the game industry are saying.  The game has received no less than 12 perfect scores so far from OXM UK, EuroGamer, Game Informer, 1Up, Gamespy, Games Radar, PC Powerplay, GamePro, the Alternative Press, Gamer.tv, Gametap, and Playboy.  Obviously several of those publications at the end matter little in the consideration, but still... that's a fucking lot, no?  And we're still very, very early in the review running.  On top of that, a healthy chunk of the other reviews are 97s and 98s.  Half-life 2, with three times the reviews, only garnered 5 or 6 perfect scores in its review run that I can find.  BioShock has already doubled that and it hasn't even released.

I hear you, it's all just numbers, and I'm not trying to say that numbers really matter that much.  They don't, generally speaking.  However, obviously there is something special happening here or you wouldn't see an entire industry of game journalists stand up this way, much less each take the time to try and craft their own individual statements about why BioShock was one of the greatest things that's happened to them in their gaming lives.  Do feel free to avoid the game or put it off or even try it and decide it isn't your cup of tea, but at least wait until you've had a chance to try the actual product before you tell the active whole of gaming journalism that they're all seeing something that isn't there, or that the bar doesn't at least *appear* to have been raised.  We'll all have to wait until we can experience this thing firsthand to truly know for ourselves, sure, but I think it's safe to say that something rare in gaming must have been achieved here.  Don't you?

Evolution and revolution are somewhat arbitrary statements with no actual meaning other than what we personally ascribe to them, so let's not waste time arguing semantics.  Let's just agree that it appears something new and different is being done.  One way or the other, whether it's a revolution or an evolution, I think it's safe to say that this is something far beyond average, and I think we can say that without stepping on anyone's taste or on the merits of any other game.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 11:29:17 AM
Thanks.  I wanted to reply last night, but couldn't figure out a way to do it without the appearance of blind fanboyism, or at least getting tempers flared up.  No need for that.  Any sweeping comments disputing the press on the game are premature.  About the only other thing I wanted to add is that Bioshock can't be directly compared to Halo 3.  The focus is completely different.  My bias is wholly against multiplayer shooters with shallow single-player campaigns.  But even in the opposite case, or on neutral ground, we should all agree that it's akin to apples and oranges.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 11:58:54 AM
You know whos been missing this whole time? Jack Thompson (http://gamepolitics.com/2007/08/19/jack-thompson-shocked-by-bioshock/).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 01:23:48 PM
Well I think the last few posts sums it all up really.

oh I've since played the demo, and by god I loved every second of it, though my postion is unchanged about it being revolutionary, but man this game is going rule!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 01:26:55 PM
Thanks.  I wanted to reply last night, but couldn't figure out a way to do it without the appearance of blind fanboyism, or at least getting tempers flared up.  No need for that.  Any sweeping comments disputing the press on the game are premature.  About the only other thing I wanted to add is that Bioshock can't be directly compared to Halo 3.  The focus is completely different.  My bias is wholly against multiplayer shooters with shallow single-player campaigns.  But even in the opposite case, or on neutral ground, we should all agree that it's akin to apples and oranges.


I agree about the apples and oranges thing.  Howver, I have to disagree if you're calling Halo a shallow single-player campaign.  I really enjoyed the first two, and look forward to wrapping the story up in 3.  But that's personal opinion, and not one that's shared by a strict majority.

Anyhow, I don't want to turn this into a halo vs bioshock thing, because that's not what it is.  Both games will serve two strict specific purposes, and those purposes are different
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 01:29:55 PM
Oh, Jack Thompson, how we love to watch you spew your idiotic comments to your own detriment.  BioShock isn't going to suffer in the least for your concerns.  And let's just take the fact that you complain about the ads being shown on a PRO WRESTLING program, which to me is far, far more vile and destructive, not because it's just violent, but because it has absolutely nothing behind its violence, its overt sexuality, etc.  Do I think it's some terrible thing that needs to be destroyed?  No.  However, I think BioShock, while possibly more shocking, is a far better piece of entertainment because there's so much behind it.  Do you fucking think for one second that watching wrestling is going to get a kid to read Ayn Rand?  No.  It's going to turn him into a redneck, at worst.  Yet how many people have heard the word "Objectivism" for the first time in their lives because of BioShock?  Did any of them know what a Randian principle was?  Did any of them consider the fate of a utopia governed by a lunatic who believed in the infallibility of man?  Did they consider why such a thing COULD work, or determine in their own minds that it COULDN'T?

Fuck you, Jack Thompson.  It's because of people like you that the American populace at large will continue to live in a philosophical dark age for years to come.

EDIT - As far as Halo goes, I too found it shallow and uninteresting.  You can probably tell just why by reading the above post.  However, there are plenty of shallow games plot-wise that I find fun and engaging (I'm currently enjoying Darkwatch, I'm a huge fan of Painkiller), so yes, I agree that there's nothing inherently wrong with that.  My lack of love for Halo comes from just plain repetitive and (in my view) uninspired design, which is I guess why I differentiate it from other games that may not be the deepest in the world.  But that doesn't make it a bad game.  In fact, I've never claimed that it's outright bad.  My single beef with Halo is that I don't believe it deserves the accolades it gets.  Well, and the way Microsoft has handled the game over the years, but that's got nothing to do with either Bungie or Halo itself.  My single complaint with Halo is that I don't think it should be a pillar of the industry.  That's it, plain and simple.  My exact same complaint about HL2, actually.  I liked it, it was fun, but I don't think it deserves much of the recognition that it's gotten from fans.  But that's just part of the business.  Critical acclaim and financial success sometimes mix, but far from consistently, especially when it comes to franchises that try to do something different.  As others have stated, you make a formula and stick to it.  That's what's going to bring you money and fans.  The Mana franchise has proven that trying to be fresh and change things up, even if you make some pretty good games, will basically spell your doom.

I think where BioShock breaks this mold is by giving the player the choice to play it like he wants.  Hate story?  Want to just skip most of the backstory?  Just feeling like shooting shit?  Done.  You got it.  Want moral dilemmas?  Want historical context?  Want philosophical questions?  Done.  Look around and discover it.  Want to just play through the game 'till you finish?  Done.  Love to explore every tiny aspect of the world you're in and still find fascinating things to hold your interest?  Done.  To me, that's the big difference.  Other games have tried this approach before, but it would appear none with the sort of success that BioShock apparently has had with it.  So it remains grounded in basic principles and allows itself to be played on those terms, but also offers snobs like myself a hell of a lot more to sink their teeth into.  That's pretty special, allowing innovation to hopefully not interfere too much in basic design principles.  On top of that, the basic design principles allow for huge levels of customization too, so you can just come into it wanting a pure shooter without much fluff and still have lots of choices in how you want to accomplish that.

EDIT x2 - In case anyone gets the wrong impression, I'm not attempting to argue anything about superiority.  I hope I made that clear again.  I'm just trying to put down on paper exactly where I think BioShock manages to push out previously-defined lines.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 01:33:53 PM
Jack Thompson has turned into a caricature of himself.  He's harmless.  Definitely not taken very seriously any more.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 02:53:08 PM
Official site says PC demo releases tomorrow, 7PM EST.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 03:48:27 PM
Just in not enough time for me to see how well it works on my 7800.  Fuck.  Well, maybe not.  And people are saying it'll run okay anyway.  Damn it, I just really want an 8800.   >:(
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 03:50:37 PM
Official site says PC demo releases tomorrow, 7PM EST.

HELL YES!!!!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 05:16:49 PM
So...what the fuck is going on? Does Irrational or 2K hate PC gamers?

The first thing was the online auth servers aren't up. However, some stores have broken street date and are selling the game, and people buying it come home to find out they can't install the game since the auth servers aren't up. Sure, it wasn't supposed to be sold yet but why punish the customer and not the store? Of course if you can get the 360 version early you can just play it, so why don't they just get the auth servers online a little early to keep the players happy?

And just now it has come to my attention that you can pre-load the demo via Fileplanet. You know, as a subscriber. So the demo is apparently done and ready to go, but they had to give fileplanet the exclusive to preload...wait...preload? Yes! You can download the demo and NOT play it until the "official" release tomorrow evening. 360 demo? Oh yeah, thats been out for like a week already and anyone with a 360 can download it for free.

What the hell happened here?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 05:25:23 PM
Yeah, this was a huge blunder.  I could forgive the rest of it, but that's just stupid as fuck.  I don't know what 2K was thinking.  I wonder what Irrational's stance is on it.  I mean, they've been purchased by 2K now so their official stance has to be... nothing.  But I still wonder if anybody there is pissed.  I can't imagine they'd be stupid enough to do this of their own volition.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 05:52:38 PM
So...what the fuck is going on? Does Irrational or 2K hate PC gamers?

The first thing was the online auth servers aren't up. However, some stores have broken street date and are selling the game, and people buying it come home to find out they can't install the game since the auth servers aren't up. Sure, it wasn't supposed to be sold yet but why punish the customer and not the store? Of course if you can get the 360 version early you can just play it, so why don't they just get the auth servers online a little early to keep the players happy?

All this makes me wonder, after XB Live had trouble w/ the so many jamming online to get the demo that their XB Live Marketplace actual servers crashed....

...Do you think on this Tuesday, that same kind of overload of traffic on the PC version's Authentication Servers could cause that Auth-server to crash and many gamers won't be able to install their PC game of Bioshock on Tuesday?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 06:29:10 PM
We're all hoping not, but who knows.  It starts with some sort of patch, that's been confirmed, and they've claimed there won't be overload the way HL2 had.  We won't know 'till it happens.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 08:09:20 PM
LEVINE SPEAKS:
Ken Levine of 2K Games addresses the "Message Board" situation w/ people posting spoilers galore (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html)

Quote
A MESSAGE FROM KEN
August 19, 2007

Ken Levine posted this to the 2K forums. I found his words wise, and decided to repost for you all:

If you're going to buy the game this week, I highly recommend you stay away from any forums that might have spoilers until you play the game through. Our goal in making the game was to thrill and, often, surprise you.

Please don't ruin other people's experience by revealing secrets in unmarked threads, and if you want to enjoy the game to its fullest, stay away from any threads that might ruin the fun for you. With a game like BioShock, it will really make a difference.

Best,
Ken

BETHSOFT:
Guess what game a bunch of BethSoft game designers are playing (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/33920/Bethesda-is-Playing-BioShock-And-Youre-Not)?

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: firestorm225 on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 08:55:12 PM
Apparently people figured out how to download an unencrypted version from Fileplanet, and while Fileplanet closed that loophole, the demo is available via torrent here:

http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3778797
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 09:03:26 PM
Do you mean... we can play that one?  Because if so, I love you and will have your babies.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: firestorm225 on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 09:07:17 PM
Some people posted this screen:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Derlok/1187577083174.jpg

I'm still looking for confirmation on the 2kgames forum but I wanna leave this download overnight so I can play it tomorrow morning. But I dunno if there's still gonna be encryption on the demo or what.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 09:08:20 PM
Awesome.  Download rate is horrendous at this point because there are barely any seeders, but hopefully that improves.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: firestorm225 on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 09:45:22 PM
There's a big thread here as I mentioned:

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4491

Seems more people are saying this works. My torrent speeds are getting better so hopefully this will work when it's done tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 09:56:12 PM
Yeah, I've been following the thread.  I practically live over there the last few days.

We're up to 16 seeders now, with over 1500 fucking people trying to get this thing.  Crazy.  And for a DEMO.

EDIT - Thread just got closed.  Liz doesn't want people talking about torrents.  Come on, it's a fucking DEMO that you should have gotten to us DAYS ago!  For crying out loud.  Ugh.  I hate red tape.  I don't blame anyone, I know this is all bureaucracy, but that doesn't make it any less obnoxious.

EDIT x2 - 2100 people on the torrent. 23 seeders. My download rate is worse than ever.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 10:49:59 PM
Just wait 2 more days.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 10:55:34 PM
Fuck that.  I want to know if this thing is going to run the way I'm assuming it will (which is pretty good).  If I can find out today that it runs like shit, I can go get an 8800GT tomorrow and install it before I get my copy.  I'd rather go that route than find out it runs crappy and go buy the 360 version.

EDIT - 40 seeders and 2700 leechers!  Haha.  It grows by the minute.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Monday, August 20, 2007, 12:40:31 AM
So it looks like both ATI and Nvidia are releasing drivers tomorrow that help Bioshock run better. Could be why they delayed the release...or something.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 20, 2007, 01:06:25 AM
That seems to be everyone's guess.  But from performance reports so far, it seems unnecessary.  Nobody's been complaining of bad performance.  Quite the contrary.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: angrykeebler on Monday, August 20, 2007, 09:14:42 AM
holy crap..check out this gameplay video someone put up on Youtube.  ::)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Monday, August 20, 2007, 02:48:29 PM
Just finished playing through the PC demo.  I had the visuals all cranked up to high and the resolution at 1280x800.  Suffice to say, everything looked gorgeous.  I played through both on the same monitor and I have to say that the PC version is nicer looking.  I actually did a double take at some of the water scenes and just the overall look of the game is improved over the 360 version I'd say.
The controls are where I'm happiest.  It feels far more natural on a mouse and keyboard.  Instead of having left and right mouse buttons controlling the respective weapons and plasmids, they have the left button act as the action button and the right button switch from plasmid to weapon.  Feels pretty nice, actually.  It's more natural to look around as you can just wave the mouse around and see everywhere, whereas using the right stick on the 360 controller felt a little restricting at times.  I liked that.  And also, in the PC demo you seem to move faster.  The demo now has this sort of frantic feel to it that the 360 demo didn't have for me.
Overall, this game feels and runs like a champ.  I'm sold.  I have my LE waiting for me at the Gamestop tomorrow.  I can't wait.

Oh and the only thing I had any issue with was the loading.  The loading, at least on my end, was a little bit on the long side.  It took about a minute and a half to two minutes to load up at each load screen.  I hope it's just the demo.  We'll see.  Otherwise, I may have to go and get an 8800.  Bah.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, August 20, 2007, 04:41:05 PM
Okay....I wonder how many people will claim they have a busted Big Daddy figurine (whether it's busted or not) just so they can get a Printed Art Book for FREE...hehe!

Or I wonder how many people will tell their UPS or Fed Ex or DHL delivery man -- "Do me a favor, slam the FRAGILE package on the ground!" (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html)

Quote
OFFICIAL BIG DADDY FIGURINE ANNOUNCEMENT
August 20, 2007

There have been some rumors about the Big Daddy figurines including in the BioShock Limited Edition being damaged. Here's the deal about them:

As often happens with large shipments, a small percentage of the Big Daddy units reached retailers damaged. Since it stinks to get a broken figurine on launch day, we're putting a plan into place if you do receive a damaged Big Daddy.

Go to www.2kgames.com/bioshock/busted and, later this week, enter your info if you have received a broken figurine. We will ship you a pre-paid box to send your damaged Big Daddy back to us. And since it will take some time to get your new Big Daddy to you, will will be shipping you a printed BioShock art book to help tide you over until your Big Daddy is back to you.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, August 20, 2007, 06:41:09 PM
9.0 from Gamespot for the X360 version. (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/bioshock/review.html?sid=6176947&tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot)


Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 20, 2007, 06:53:51 PM
That's by far the worst review the game has gotten yet, but I find that very unsurprising given that Gerstmann did it.  Honestly, the more I hear from that guy, the less I like him.  This has nothing to do with the BioShock review, but his reviews in general I often disagree with (such as the obscenely low score for LocoRoco) and he and I most definitely do not share the same taste.  Topping that off, I think he's generally sort of an imbecilic loudmouth, and his obsession with appearing to know lots about rap music never gets any less fucking annoying.  We get it.  Shut the fuck up.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there.  Some of what he mentions in his review isn't mentioned by many other reviews, but some of it is.  However, no other review has mentioned the 360 hitching problem they seemed to have over there, so I don't know what that's all about.  Go figure.  He makes a few comments that strike me as the usual Gerstmann overstatement, but I'll reserve judgment until I play the full game.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, August 20, 2007, 07:10:35 PM
Quote from: Gertsmann of GameSpot
Death in BioShock is barely even a setback. When you die, you're reconstituted at the nearest vita-chamber and sent on your way with your inventory intact and most of your health.

This isn't a reload, so everything is as you left it, even the damage that you've already done to any surviving enemies. So you can wear down a big daddy by just running at it again and again with little or no care for your health. That, of course, can get tedious, but having that possibility is a blessing--and a curse. On one hand, you're free to try out new things, like plasmid and tonic combinations, with no penalty if you equip some bum techniques. On the other, there aren't any real gameplay consequences, so playing with skill isn't rewarded. You could fumble your way through the 15 or 20 hours it'll probably take to properly explore Rapture and still see everything there is to see.

Another even harder, more Hardcore difficulty where the "health of enemies on reset when the player dies" or some would be freakin' sweet -- I'd like more challenge; and another reason to run through a game again! :)

I understand what Irrational is trying to do, by trying to eliminate death in the game and trying to make the casual gamer able to finish the game here, which is fine -- but, the game really should've had another high difficulty where "the health of enemies are reset when the player dies."

Hey, it'd be nice if Irrational/2K adds such an extra in-game diffuculty in a patch! There's a suggestion for Irrational/2K, for a patch!
 
Quote
This, along with three selectable difficulty settings, leaves you with the impression that the game was made to cater to a wide audience, but the hard difficulty setting doesn't actually impact things like artificial intelligence or force you to play any more skillfully to succeed. The enemies still mostly run at you mindlessly while attacking, occasionally getting into scraps with one another or breaking off to find a healing machine, but they take longer to kill and hurt you more when they hit.

Most games when you do a Harder Diffuculty, do this -- so, I dunno why the hell Gertsmann is complaining too much here.

I mean, it's not like he complained about the game's AI at all, you know...?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Monday, August 20, 2007, 08:13:14 PM
Some early reports from a few guys over at the other forum I moderate say the game is excellent.  They also say that the demo is not truly representative of the full game.  A personal friend of mine has it and is about six hours in.  He's talking GOTY material.

Guess that means you can disregard some of my above comments.  However I'm still buying Metroid Prime 3, so I doubt I can pony up for this too.

And I was truly waiting for the Gamespot review.  I take them more seriously than the other pubs/sites because (IMO) they offered much more balanced reviews.  However I agree with Que about Gerstmann.  I really miss Greg Kasavin.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, August 20, 2007, 08:18:44 PM
I really miss Greg Kasavin.
I do miss his reviews, too -- he was a really good game reviewer.

EDIT:
In regards to me wanting another harder diffuculty where the enemies' health resets when the player dies, I began a NEW Poll on the CultOfRapture's forums right HERE! (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5041)

Hopefully, the designers like my suggestion and do something about it!

Or, some modders makes such a mod, if the designer's won't do it!


Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 20, 2007, 08:25:01 PM
Amen, brothers.  Kasavin was a true professional.

And MyD, I highly doubt they're going to add anything in a patch, though you never know.  Levine has talked about how much he's admired some others devs like Shiny, and patch #3 for Sacrifice is one of the best patches I've ever seen in my years of PC gaming (in terms of not only fixing things, but adding great content for free).  Still, don't hold your breath.

Anyway, I played the demo and I'm impressed.  Not necessarily blown away, but I wasn't really expecting the *demo* to blow me away.  The single reason I ran it was not to get a taste of the gameplay or try shooting fire at someone's head (which I don't assume is going to be *that* different from shooting fire at someone's head in another game), but I wanted to make sure everything ran great.

So for those of you looking for technical stuff, here are your answers:

Firstly, the game runs beautifully on my 7800GT.  Now that doesn't mean 60 frames a second, obviously.  We're talking 20s and 30s here, but that's definitely acceptable for me.  I basically am faced with two options according to the demo's performance, and that's either run the game at my monitor's maximum res (1280x1024) and get about 15-35 FPS depending on the action and area, or run it at 1024x768 and get about 20-40 FPS.  Oh, and this is with every single option cranked to max and also with the latest nVidia beta drivers which supposedly give a big performance boost for BioShock.

So yeah, I'm happy.  It's far from perfect certainly, but the game looks fucking AMAZING (this is hands-down the greatest-looking game I have ever seen in terms of amazing tech married to great design) and is smooth enough to be playable without causing any gameplay ramifications or frustration on my part.  Even with lots of enemies and effects flying it stays consistent, so that's saying something.  So yeah, not perfect, but definitely enough to allow me to hold off on that 8800 without feeling too gimped.

Can't wait.  Finishing up Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged again tomorrow, which I'd been rereading for the occasion, so I'm all set.  Tomorrow night can't come fast enough.  Provided, of course, the thing installs and authenticates without any hitches.  Here's hoping!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Monday, August 20, 2007, 08:30:57 PM
I just wish the combat were a little more beefy.  It appears that aside from a few varieties of splicers and big daddies, there isn't much more to kill.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Monday, August 20, 2007, 08:40:15 PM
Can't wait.  Finishing up Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged again tomorrow, which I'd been rereading for the occasion, so I'm all set.

Not to go off topic too much, but I just did a little research on that book and it looks very interesting, I will have to check it out.  Did they draw inspiration from this novel for the game or something?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 20, 2007, 08:55:02 PM
K-Man: Well, I mean... that's the plot.  It isn't supposed to have aliens and monsters, it has crazy mutated people.  I thought the combat was fine.  I've seen videos that demonstrate some pretty decent AI, but the demo has almost entirely constrained areas with little room for movement.  Once you threw a couple ranged combat guys and some cover into the mix, they performed pretty well, but there were only a couple spots where they could do that.  I felt like the combat felt solid in general though, just didn't have a lot of variety because there were only a few weapons, and it was stuff we'd seen all over the place before in previews and such.  I think the full game will fix those problems nicely.

I guess I can sort of understand wanting more things to kill, because as gamers we always want more and more stuff to fry in more and more ways, but I don't expect that it's going to bother me in this case.  I need it to stay grounded so it keeps within the game's immersive elements.

Belmont: Oh yeah, it's *heavily* inspired by it.  It's a very good and interesting book in its own right, one that has me on both sides of the issue constantly, which I guess is partly why I love it.  I both agree and disagree with virtually everyone.  Obviously there's some overstatement in terms of heroism being presented and some of the villains seem a little bit overly comic, but when you look at today's political landscape it's difficult not to cringe at how accurate some of their whining is.  Rand's philosophy is a sort of hyper-pride in self worth, a thing that's all about working hard and working for YOURSELF, not for anyone else.  "Give" is not in her vocabulary or in the vocabularies of her characters.  I feel that it goes much too far in that regard, but I also find that some of what constantly bugs me about overt liberalism and those who want to dish out and those who want to ACCEPT handouts from the government is some of the same stuff that her ideologies address.  I believe strongly that you should work for yourself and make your own way, and I've always been very against most assistance programs.  So I'm stuck in the middle on that issue.  Rand was also a staunch atheist, so obviously I don't get along with her there, either.

One of the biggest threads I think you'll see is that Andrew Ryan, the founder of Rapture (and another A.R., eh?) has a very similar background to Rand.  From Wikipedia:

Quote
Rand was twelve at the time of the Russian revolution of 1917, and her family life was disrupted by the rise of the Bolshevik party. Her father's pharmacy was confiscated by the Soviets, and the family fled to Crimea to recover financially. When Crimea fell to the Bolsheviks in 1921, Rand burned her diary, which contained vitriolic anti-Soviet writings.[5] Rand then returned to St. Petersburg ("Petrograd") to attend university.[7] She studied philosophy and history at the University of Petrograd. Her major literary discoveries were the works of Edmond Rostand, Friedrich Schiller and Fyodor Dostoevsky.

Soviet background that basically fucks your life so bad you become a hyper-capitalist.  Objectivism, Rand's philosophy, is based on a lot of that, and this plays a *heavy* role in BioShock from what I can tell.  The difference is that instead of the BUILDING UP of it all like we see in Atlas Shrugged, BioShock tells a story of its complete destruction.  Whether or not this is a philosophical statement from Levine I don't know, as there may well be stuff in the game that suggests that this Randian utopia *could* have worked in other circumstances (I've heard there's some content to suggest this).  So... yeah.  Who knows.  But case in point, reading Atlas will definitely have an impact on your enjoyment of the plot to at least some degree, I think.  Even just with the demo I felt a heavy presence, and not in a cheap or stupid way.  It felt really nice to have those allusions in place.

Also, it seems there's some Dostoevsky influence in there as well.  I know the IGN review mentioned Crime and Punishment, at least, but I think I'll have to dig into the full game before I can really confirm any more literary threads other than the obvious.

EDIT - Sorry, wanted to add that last statement and fix some weirdness in the last paragraph.  I'm fucking tired from editing this podcast...

EDIT x2 - Okay, just wanted to add that I watched the Gamespot video review and that was a bit better than the text review.  Shows some stuff you might want to miss though, so view judiciously.  It also shows the hitching problem Gerstmann was talking about, which does indeed seem a bit strange.  Stranger still that I've heard zero other reports of it.  In the end Gerstmann feels the combat just isn't quite beefy enough (mostly because as guys get stronger toward the end of the game, they don't look bigger or more menacing, so you feel like you're just doing less damage) and... well, that seems to be the main complaint.  It seems a little hard to buy that watching the video, though, because the combat looks great, and the PC version's slightly more frenetic pace may help make up for this also (as well as get rid of that hitching problem he talked about... though I don't see proof that it's going to show up on a lot of people's 360s).  In other words, I think Gerstmann may be attempting to give his usual hardboiled review in the interests of seeming objective, when much of what he's talking about is at best subjective (taste), and at worst just... wrong.  But I won't say he's wrong as I don't have the game yet, and his niggles are fairly minor regardless of their context.  Either way, it was a nice video review.  But as I said, watch yourself if you watch it.  There isn't anything directly spoilery, just a couple short scenes you might want to be surprised to find in the game (a couple location-based things where there's something shocking on screen, and one of the Little Sister scenes that another video review spoiled already).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 12:12:09 PM
Just picked up my LE edition at Gamestop.  It's such a pretty package.  And that Big Daddy figurine just oozes quality.  It's got a lot of heft to it and is just awesome.  Installing the game right now, so just waiting now.  Finally, it's here.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 12:56:35 PM
Interesting, Bioshocks widescreen is just 4:3 cropped (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48555).

(http://wsgfmedia.com/uploads/paddywak/screenshots/bioshock/BioshockFOV.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 01:18:33 PM
I'm grabbing this game after work today.  Only 2.5 hours before I get it!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 01:56:15 PM
And you'll still get it before the Steam buyers. It seems the game just unlocked, theres still like 20% of the game to download on top of unencrypting the stuff the people already preloaded, and of course the servers are going dog slow because theres lots of people doing all this at the same time.

It makes me smile, knowing those people could have walked into CC at 10am and had the game $10 cheaper.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 02:23:20 PM
Just played a good hour or so.  And I'm really liking it so far.  It's got this great tension and paranoia.  I'm almost afraid to turn around in the game half the time.  It's a beautiful game, too.  So very pretty.  And again, maybe it's just me, but the load screens that do pop up are obscenely long.  Don't know if its my system or if it's just on the PC version, but the loading is nearly two minutes sometimes.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 05:44:11 PM
It's gotta' be your system.  I haven't installed my copy yet (just got home, doing so now), but in the demo my load times were maybe 25 seconds.

That's weird about the widescreen, too.  I'm almost glad for once that I'm playing it in standard format.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: ScaryTooth on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 06:28:56 PM
I've been playing for a solid hour and a half, and the game is freaking dope as hell.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 07:03:02 PM
MyD's been playing this for at least 3½ hours here.

Authentication Annoyance
Biggest annoyance for MyD so far is this -- yup, I had to try to authentic 3 times before it ACTUALLY went through (around 5pm or so, Eastern time). Same serial code and everything, each time; didn't change it or nothing -- I just hit back and then submit a few times and it finally connected. Weird, eh???

Performance on my rig
1024x768's a waste for me. Tried it on here -- not happening, guys. If I'm lucky, 30 frames w/ most stuff OFF. Normally below that -- around 15 frames, as a low; and that was often. Nope, not worth my time. Especially since it don't look much different than 800x600 on here.

I'm glad this runs a hell of a lot better than R6: Vegas does on my rig -- see my Specs for my rig. In Bioshock, I can run the game in 800x600 -- some of the bells and whistles are on, some are off. Framerate is anywhere from 25-50 FPS, depending on what the hell's going on on-screen -- if it's heavy w/ explosions and enemies, expect around 25 or so. If nothing's happening, anywhere above 30-50 FPS.

All of this is w/ the last WHQL Drivers, not them Beta Bioshock drivers. Sorry, but I think I'll pass on "Beta" drivers -- I'll install the next WHQL Drivers, if I have to. Right now, I'm happy w/ Bioshock as is.

The Game
Presentation is outstanding. The graphics, the art decor -- all that artsy stuff, is outstanding. I love the look of the game; the whole package is great. Yeah, and I ain't even running in 1024x768. Color me freakin' impressed.

The sound effects and the voice-acting are also absolutely outstanding.

The Big Daddies -- oh, man. Those bastards are as rough -- and as tough -- as nails!!! Some nasty fights w/ those things.

I like how w/ The Little Sisters, you're given the option to Harvest them or Rescue them. Pretty cool stuff. I'm sure that'll probably matter later on, some time later in the game, I bet...

The gameplay, the upgrading of my character -- all of that cool stuff is well done, too.

The controls are like your usual first person shooter. But, even w/ the inclusions of being able to throw special abilities/magic -- the Plastids, could've been a nightmare. Nope, not at all. It's so seemless. The idea of switching from Plastids to Guns/Wrench (and vice versa) w/ the Right Click (by default) -- too sweet. That's all I can say there. You can really pull off some awesome combos, by quick-clicking and then left-clicking (by default, that's your Fire command), to say the least.

Oh, Telekinesis rules! Gravity gun from Half-Life 2 got nothing on THIS!

So far, the story's very interesting -- and there have been some awesome moments that I've encountered so far....Some moments that had me actually say "Holy shit" or jump up a little bit out of my chair. Been some awesome combat match-ups, too....

Awesome combat fights -- Medical Ward and Big Daddy Talk In Spoilers Below...
(click to show/hide)

This game's flat-out awesome.

I am heading to Neptune area next, which is where my last AutoSave was...must go play more....

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 07:06:03 PM
All of this is w/ the last WHQL Drivers, not them Beta Bioshock drivers. Sorry, but I think I'll pass on "Beta" drivers -- I'll install the next WHQL Drivers, if I have to. Right now, I'm happy w/ Bioshock as is.

No offense, but you're an idiot.  "Beta" means nothing.  Just get them!  You're sacrificing performance for zero reason.  Seriously.  With your rig, you want to squeeze every drop you can get!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 07:08:44 PM
No offense, but you're an idiot.  "Beta" means nothing.  Just get them!  You're sacrificing performance for zero reason.  Seriously.  With your rig, you want to squeeze every drop you can get!

Que, is it really *that* much of a performance increase...?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 07:15:18 PM
I have no idea, but since they apparently delayed the demo for them, I'd venture to guess yes.  Besides, why the fuck wouldn't you?  It'll take you five seconds and a reboot.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 07:47:33 PM
Tonight I got the last copy of the 360 version at Toys R Us in Kenwood.  The people there were surprised to be sold out because they had a lot of them earlier.  "This must be a hot game."  No shit.  I haven't tried it yet.  I hope there are no bad technical issues such as what the Gamespot review talks about.  For me, it's this or nothing.  The PC game is not an option.  So I'll make do with whatever it has to offer.  I have yet to try it, and I may put that off till tomorrow.  At least I got it, and it's ready to go.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 10:38:08 PM
Picked up my copy earlier this evening.  Finally got a chance to play it tonight.  If you've played the demo, the game is somewhat different.  The locales of the entire demo is the same as the real game, but you don't encounter and get all the stuff that you saw in the demo that quickly.  It's more paced out.

So far I'm having a blast, but it's getting late so I'll be playing more tomorrow.

Currently working on getting the telekinesis plasmid.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 10:46:05 PM
What would you guys recommend for specs for this game?  No, I didn't look up the pub/dev released specs because those are always so far off.  Basically what I'm asking is;  would one be able to run this well on a pc with a 7600 and e4300 or whatever? 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, August 21, 2007, 10:49:54 PM
I caved and bought it.  I'm a few hours into it and I'm just not digging it as much as I thought I would.  I may be interested in selling it.  I'll give it another shot tomorrow and go from there.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 12:09:56 AM
Maybe K-Man just isn't an FPS guy.  Or maybe he just veers to the "other end" (i.e. Halo) more so than the rest of us.  Because I don't see how it's possible to not be in love with this.  Or maybe he isn't the type who enjoys a lot of experimentation?  I feel like there *are* reasons that someone wouldn't like this game.  I mean, it doesn't stray super far from the FPS formula.  Levine said from the get-go that this is a shooter, shooter, shooter, and it really is.  What's great is how it blossoms out from those conventions and leaves you wondering about so many things, wanting to try so many possibilities.  But that doesn't negate the fact that I can picture someone not liking it.  I really couldn't tell you *why* at this point, but it isn't some iron-clad thing where I just can't imagine anyone in the world not having a good time.  If that makes any sense.

Fortunately, I'm loving it, and the combat is included.  I'm playing on HARD and I feel like it's about perfect.  I've died a few times, but death generally means I'm struggling in terms of supplies to begin with, so I can't exactly rush back into the fray and feel confident.  AI is believable, smart, and fairly no-nonsense.  It doesn't do anything flashy, but it hasn't done anything stupid, either.  Gets pretty interesting when there are multiple enemies or interesting environmental facets nearby.  Weapons feel satisfying for the most part.  I'd say they could feel heavier and beefier, but that's almost defeating the purpose.  They're supposed to be rigged items manufactured in haste from spare parts and such, so I can't fault them for feeling accurate to that.  Plasmids are fun to use.  We've seen the electricity and fire a billion times, but the fire is actually still fun to use.  Electricity is a bit ho-hum, though I do so enjoy using the wrench.  Nothing like beating people's faces in to make your day happier.

The narrative thus far is great.  It isn't heavy-handed, but there's definitely some caricature and overstatement (which feels very Randian to me, appropriately), and while some of the tape-recorded monologues are purposefully absurd, it's all really well written.  You can't help but love some of the great lines.

Anyway, I'm digging it.  It feels very dense, like there's a lot there to just soak up and poke your nose into.  Looking forward to exploring further.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 08:32:39 AM
I can't really say why I'm not enjoying it as much as I thought.  The game is outright beautiful.  I'm having fun with the plasmids and the tonic augmentations.  Maybe the reason I don't like it is because the game itself is so sparsely populated.  I mean it IS a shooter, but there hasn't been a whole helluva lot to shoot so far. 

I had my mind made up that I was not going to buy it right away after playing the demo.  Then I kept hearing about how much different the actual game is from the demo.  That convinced me to purchase it and give it a shot.  But so far it doesn't seem much different.

Perhaps I was expecting too much out of the game to begin with.  Who knows?  Maybe my opinions will change once I'm a bit further into it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 09:11:23 AM
K-Man if you are interested in selling it, then you have a customer. Send me a mail to pugnated@hotmail.com
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 10:44:40 AM
Quote
THE TRUTH ABOUT WIDESCREEN
August 22, 2007

We understand there has been some concern about the implementation of widescreen mode in BioShock. Hopefully, we can clarify how we’ve chosen to do this.

The first thing we want to make clear is the mode we developed the game on and the optimal mode for playing the game is the widescreen mode. 90% of our development stations were widescreen displays: artists, programmers and designers.

- BioShock was primarily developed and tuned for widescreen mode. Artists and designers worked with widescreen displays and chose a field of view (FOV) that best reflected their intentions with respect to the way the world is perceived, the perceived speed of movement of the player relative to the world and the amount of the world they wanted to be viewed for the best game-play experience. We went through dozens of iterations and finally settled upon a widescreen aspect ratio that best suited the gameplay experience.

- When playing in widescreen modes the game makes use of the full screen resolution, and does not crop or stretch a lower resolution image into a wide screen one. For example, at 720p the game renders natively to the full 1280x720 resolution.

- Once this FOV was established, we chose to keep exactly the same horizontal FOV for standard def displays, so as not to in any way alter the gameplay experience.

- Instead of cropping the FOV for 4:3 displays and making all 4:3 owners mad in doing so, we slightly extended the vertical FOV for standard def mode: we never wanted to have black bars on people’s displays. (This way, everybody is happy…) This does mean that people playing on a standard def display see slightly more vertical space, but, this does not significantly affect the game-play experience and, we felt that it best served our goal of keeping the game experience as close as possible to the original design and art vision on both types of displays. Reports of the widescreen FOV being a crop of the 4:3 FOV are completely false.

One thing we can assure you that all these decisions were made with the best interests of the game in mind. We didn’t save any money or development time by choosing this set of parameters. We did what we thought was the best thing for the game: developing and optimizing it for widescreen displays, and making the decision not to do the usual crop for 4:3 displays. As a consumer, you certainly have the right to disagree.

We understand that not all users might not be happy with these choices and we will be looking into options for allowing users to adjust FOV settings manually. But as we mentioned earlier, changes to video game code do not happen in minutes or hours. We appreciate your understanding.
Makes sense. Kinda. Though it would make me want to play in 4:3 more than widescreen.

And there seems to be some hubub on the forums about the activation. You can only do it...twice?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 10:59:36 AM
I'm pretty sure they said initially there was no limit to the number of activations, and that you could do it from multiple systems.

So many little extraneous things seem to be going on with this game.  It's really quite weird.  The widescreen thing makes sense, though.  For once us SD folks aren't getting bent over and told to take it.  Makes me happy.  I've gotten more than enough of that shit with my 360 in the last year, I really don't need to have that extend to my PC as well.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 11:12:52 AM
K-Man if you are interested in selling it, then you have a customer. Send me a mail to pugnated@hotmail.com

Noted.  Although if I decide to sell Pyro gets first dibs on it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 12:42:34 PM
I thought Pyro had it preordered?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 12:55:47 PM
Heh, so the activation thing and the 2 install limit seems...well, stupid. They say when you uninstall the game you get a "refund"...so you gain that install back. You just better remember to uninstall the game, and be online when you do. I dont know about you, but when I reformat I just let the formatting process wipe the drive clean. I don't want to have to remember to uninstall the game or it wont let me get that install back.

I just find it funny. Its supposed to stop pirates, but they'll just apply a crack and never worry about any of it. And legit customers that get fed up or get asked to call the company up for permission to install the game they already paid for will probably go lookng for a crack to avoid the hassle.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 12:57:35 PM
I thought Pyro had it preordered?


He does but he told me last night that he wasn't going to get it per finances. 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 01:06:19 PM
Oh, well that sucks.

And yeah, that's messed up with the install stuff.  It's amazing that this stuff continues to go on what with how upset everyone gets.  The anti-piracy industry does nothing but turn people against legitimately paying for products.  I mean, it's that simple.  It isn't hard to pirate a game, and when people get this angry it becomes a no-brainer for them to just go do that instead of going out of their way to get to a store or download service and deal with activating/decrypting/whatever when they can just fire up the pirated version in 10 minutes... and not pay.

Let's face it, we're all going to be pirates soon. (http://forumjunk.0x1a4.com/pirate.swf)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 01:44:44 PM
Heh, so the activation thing and the 2 install limit seems...well, stupid. They say when you uninstall the game you get a "refund"...so you gain that install back. You just better remember to uninstall the game, and be online when you do.
Well, that's quite kooky and foolish.

Well, I'm glad I get my "refund", if I actually uninstall my Bioshock game.
Now, it'd really suck if I don't get "refunded" for it.

I don't plan on uninstalling Bioshock anytime soon...

Maybe in a patch, they'll remove the copyright protection, years down the road. That would be nice...

Quote
I just find it funny. Its supposed to stop pirates, but they'll just apply a crack and never worry about any of it. And legit customers that get fed up or get asked to call the company up for permission to install the game they already paid for will probably go lookng for a crack to avoid the hassle.
I bet that'll happen, too.

Legit buyers don't wanna be treated like they're doing something wrong, when they never did in the first place.

This Internet Connection Activation crap's annoying -- especially for it to be included in a SINGLE PLAYER ONLY Game, for crying out loud.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 01:50:46 PM
Hmmm....Maybe Bioshock will eventually go the PS3 -- I wouldn't be surprised, if it does... (http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25867135&part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6177095)

Quote
PS3 BioShock trace uncovered in PC demo?

Source: A config file inside the PC BioShock demo.

What we heard: Though BioShock is currently only available for the Xbox 360 and PC, many Sony fans fervently believe it will eventually arrive on the PlayStation 3. The articles of their faith? First, the fact that Irrational Games originally announced BioShock as coming to "PCs and next-generation consoles." There's also the example set by publisher 2K Games when it promoted the popular role-playing game Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion as being PC/360 only...until it announced the RPG was PS3-bound too.

This week, a new indicator of a possible PS3 version of BioShock surfaced. Among the myriad files accompanying the just-released PC demo of the game is a configuration document (Program Files/2k Game/Bioshock demo/Content/config.ini) outlining the game-engine settings. A subheading of the document references specific console settings for "(XBox360 [and] PS3)."

The mere mention of the console has been taken by many to mean that, at the very least, a PS3 version of BioShock was considered at one point. It's a perfectly valid hypothesis. In 2005, several files referencing the "Xbox" were found inside the code for Sierra's then-PC-only shooter F.E.A.R. The following year, the game was ported to the Xbox 360. (It also arrived on the PS3 in 2007.) However, there's another completely reasonable explanation for the PS3 mention in the BioShock demo config file. The game uses the Unreal Engine 3, Epic Games' cross-platform game-development toolset, which is usedin making numerous games for the PC, 360, and PS3.

The official story: Reps for 2K Games had not returned requests for comment as of press time.

Bogus or not bogus?: Bogus that the mention of the PS3 in the BioShock PC demo code is hard evidence the game is headed to Sony's console. However, the fact BioShock is poised to be a hit after receiving one of the highest aggregate review scores in memory means that 2K would be foolish not to bring the game to the PS3...eventually.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 02:07:53 PM
Just so everyone knows, I'm pounding my head on my desk over peoples seeming acceptance of retarded shit.

Quote
idol does it really matter? For one, what gamer isn't on a cable or DSL line all the time now-a-days? Yes, I realize there are exceptions (like you), but I'd take a guess that at least 95% of people with the computers to play this game have some sort of 100% active, high-speed connection. "Being online" when you "remember" to uninstall isn't hard when you're always online. [This is true, but its still counter-intuitive that a singleplayer only title requires an internet connection for install *and* uninstall. -idol]

Second, if you forget, who cares!? So you forgot to uninstall when your formatted twice and now you have to call 2k. So call them and you'll get a new key, or they'll reactivate your current one or whatever.

The bottom line is yeah, it's a mild inconvenience, but in the end it hardly affects anyone and even those it does affect are done with the problem in 5 minutes anyways. Woopdeedoo.
Who cares? WHO CARES? Well, everyone that buys the game should care that they are required to jump through fucking hoops all in the name of anti-piracy that in the end won't do jack shit about stopping said piracy. I've got HUNDREDS of games and I don't have to call anyone to reinstall any single one of them whether in uninstalled them properly or not. For fucks sake, HDs crash...there goes an install. Windows fucks up and needs to be reinstalled, there goes an install. And are you honestly going to remember to uninstall the game proper before you reformat? Hell no, you're going to let the formatting process take care of it for you. There goes an install...and at some point in there you had to call the fucking company so you can play the game you paid $50 for? Fuck that. How can people not see this as a terrible thing to be moving towards?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 02:12:58 PM
Idol, especially for a SINGLE PLAYER GAME -- I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to play it. Neither should you nor anyone else.

The Legit Copyright Protected CD itself SHOULD be the damn copyright protection for the game. I've always like this method of copyright protection for SP-based game, myself -- to play a DVD movie, you normally need the DVD to play it; to play a console game, you need the console game's CD/DVD to run it; you get the point.

So, it makes perfect sense for the CD/DVD itself to be the actual copyright protection. End of story.

I am 100% w/ you on this, Idol.

Idol, can you link me to that thread you posted in?

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 02:24:22 PM
The online activation requirement bothered me a great deal to begin with; but since I'm out of the PC market for now, it didn't really motivate me to sound off or do anything.  Now that I've heard about the 2 activations, I'll be looking for solutions from the more talented members of the "we will not get fucked in the ass" community.  I'll post anything I find.  Nothing to report yet.

You can't even buy this game, can you idol?  No DSL/cable.  Really, I'm glad that I don't have to deal with this bullshit personally.  As much as I'd like the keyboard/mouse control, the seething anger over this crap would offset the benefit, and then some.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 02:30:18 PM
I can buy the game. Not sure what the online auth requires (like a 100MB download or some crap), but it should work fine on dialup. I'm not gettng it yet since my PC is too weak to run it at a level I would want to play it at.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: ScaryTooth on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 02:31:39 PM
I don't think it requires a big download. I activated mine in about 15 seconds.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 02:59:21 PM
I assumed as much. I think only Steam had the large download when it unlocked.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: sirean_syan on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 03:15:59 PM
It is strange how much of this stuff is coming up with the game. All I can guess is that it's the first truly huge release in a while or that it's trying to be experimental in more ways than gameplay. Shame too, considering this is the sort of game that a lot of people claim they want to actually invest in, including those who normally wouldn't because it's the sort of thing that feels like it was made for them.

I stayed home from stuff today because of an overly persistent cold and I put my stay to good use with the demo.... I want the game (bad), but I can't have it yet. It ran okay at 1024x768, but even during the smallest fights it was hard to keep up with whatever was going on. It looks like it'll run better running at 800x600, but it's been too long since I've used that resolution and it looked pretty bad (LCD scaling probably didn't help much either). So, I've just decided that I'll have to wait until I upgrade or get a new computer... that will probably happen inside of a year when I manage to get a large amount of extra funds or just decide to do it. By now my computer is running near four years old, with a 2.5 year old videocard upgrade. It's held up more than well and will serve me fine for the time being. I'm just going to have to put real PC gaming on the backburner for a while... which also isn't an entirely new concept for me considering my gaming habits for the past year or so. At least I know the first game that'll be there when I do get that new computer.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 03:44:15 PM
And idol, you aren't alone.  The majority seem to be enraged about the copy protection over at the Cult site.  You'll have more people to commiserate with over there.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 04:36:03 PM
And idol, you aren't alone.  The majority seem to be enraged about the copy protection over at the Cult site.  You'll have more people to commiserate with over there.

And we all should be.

Legit owners don't need our gaming rights stopped over b/c some pirates don't wanna pay for the game. We should be treated like first class citizen-gamers -- not put us in friggin' coach!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 04:43:26 PM
Something I noticed about the demo, AVG says its a trojan?  When I unzip the file it gives me an unzip error with the .exe file that I got from 3dGamers and FilePlanet.  Looking into it on the forums this seems to be a problem for lots of people.  It seems the only way I can install and maybe even play the demo or full game is to disable AVG because of the copy protection they used.  I want to say it was called Securerom or something like that.  Kind of shitty that I have to disable AVG just to play the demo.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 05:47:06 PM
Something I noticed about the demo, AVG says its a trojan?  When I unzip the file it gives me an unzip error with the .exe file that I got from 3dGamers and FilePlanet.  Looking into it on the forums this seems to be a problem for lots of people.  It seems the only way I can install and maybe even play the demo or full game is to disable AVG because of the copy protection they used.  I want to say it was called Securerom or something like that.  Kind of shitty that I have to disable AVG just to play the demo.

From what I gather, the new way SecuRom works, it acts like a virus -- see thread here (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5399)


Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 06:41:54 PM
I didn't get that, but I downloaded the unencrypted mistake File Planet put up.  So I dunno'.  Maybe that one didn't have it?  All I know is my AVG didn't complain.

Anyway, a good few hours into the game so far and loving it.  The game is definitely going to have replay value, provided you like what's there to begin with.  You can totally try something, see how it goes, then load your game and tackle it a completely different way.  Sometimes it'll be more "omg dude that was pure awesome" than others depending on the tactics you use and what happens in a given situation, but it's great stuff that's really fun if you learn how to think on your feet and react quickly.

The one mod I would make for this game so far is to require the Vita-Chambers to eat up like a third of your cash every time you die.  Being resurrected is fine and definitely helps harder points from getting frustrating, but there needs to be at least some kind of negative.  That is, so far, my single complaint with the game.  I absolutely love everything else.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: ScaryTooth on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 07:04:52 PM
I'm about 5 hours into it and I'm loving it. I've killed 3 big daddies so far. Tough bastards. I'm just now getting lots of little gadgets and plasmids to play with so I'm starting to set better traps and such. I'm experimenting with stuff. There are two more Big Daddies on this level that I'm on now. I'm trying to think of a good strat to take one of them out. Fighting those things are sweet. They're fast, do lots of damage, and take a while to kill.

The first one I fought totally owned me, I was like--"I'm just going to blast him until he dies"...denied!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 07:37:56 PM
9.0 also for the PC Version of Bioshock from GameSpot.

Reviewed by Gertsmann, of course... (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/bioshock/review.html?sid=6177215&tag=topslot;title;4)

Quote
But BioShock isn't without flaw. The game has been released with a host of technical issues, ranging from a total lack of audio on some machines to issues with the SecuROM online activation, which under normal circumstances is designed to prevent you from activating a retail copy on more than two machines. The game is also available through Steam, though all of the same audio stuttering and other issues that some players are experiencing in the disc-based version carry over to the digital version as well. While it's a sad truth that no game is ever released in a completely bug-free state for 100 percent of its users, these issues appear to be pretty widespread, and if you're at all skittish about waiting for a patch after you've purchased something, you might want to wait until at least one patch is released before buying BioShock. In our experience, we got the game running with some minor audio stuttering on a Windows XP PC, and can't get any audio at all on our Vista test machine. All of this makes the Xbox 360 version's stuttering issues (which seem to only happen on some consoles) pale in comparison.
I'd like to note -- I have yet to have any stuttering issues of sound on my current PC....

Quote
Aside from having different technical problems, the differences between the Xbox 360 and PC versions of BioShock are fairly minor. The mouse and keyboard support works exactly as you'd expect, and using a mouse makes the combat a touch easier, since aiming for the head is usually easier with a mouse than with a gamepad. But if you're after that console-style gamepad experience, BioShock has full support for the wired Xbox 360 controller. If you're at a loss for which version to purchase, it comes down to the quality of your PC. If you're running a high-end DirectX 10 machine, the game looks better on the PC. It also has DirectX 9 support, and even running this way, it's possible for some facets of BioShock, like texture quality, to look sharper than the 360 version if your machine can handle it. But when you factor in the current bug list for each version, or if your PC isn't especially recent, the Xbox 360 version is a safer bet.

....

If you're the kind of player who just wants yet another action-packed shooter, BioShock probably isn't for you. Its weak link is its unsatisfying no-skill-required combat, which might aim this one just over the head of the average Halo fan. But if you want to get a little fancy, there's a lot of fun to be had with some of the game's more indirect fighting methods. It builds an amazing atmosphere by using terrific graphics and sound to set a creepy mood. But BioShock's real strengths are as a compelling work of interactive fiction, and as a unique ride through a warped world with some great payoff built into its mysterious plot. If that description has you even the least bit interested, you'll definitely find BioShock worth playing--but you still might want to hold off for a patch or two, just in case.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 07:56:18 PM
Well, I got the demo running and I can barely run it on the lowest settings, some textures weren't even loading.  I figured that was going to happen, I just need to get a new graphics card and processor sometime down the line.  My processor doesn't even meet the system requirements and my graphics card is fairly old.  No big deal though, I was expecting this, maybe by the time I do the upgrade the game will be cheaper.  One of my friends has the 360 version but he's waiting for his 360 to be fixed by Microsoft, maybe after he plays it, he'll let me borrow his 360 for a few days so I can play it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 08:22:24 PM
Well, someone's trying to get Bioshock going on Pixel Shader 2.0 cards, by making their own PS 2.0 Mod for Bioshock.... (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5680)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 08:26:52 PM
PC Gamer (http://www.pcgamer.com/) seems to have a little issue with the copy protection.

(I know all my posts are downers, but I can't play it to say anything good...heh)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 08:35:43 PM
PC Gamer (http://www.pcgamer.com/) seems to have a little issue with the copy protection.

(I know all my posts are downers, but I can't play it to say anything good...heh)

A little?!?!?
That's more than that -- heh!

That's complete bullshit, that they want a photo of the product via e-mail -- ummm, WTF?!??

Bioshock's only been out FOR ONE DAY and the PC Gaming Community is blasting this Copyright Protection, which appears to be a very shoddy product indeed.

So, I guess SecuROM is the new StarForce now, w/ a very shoddy CRP (CopyRight Protection) and all. Let's hope like the PC Gaming Community did w/ StarForce when UbiSoft began using them, that we can make some noise so publishers never use such nasty CRP junk in their games AGAIN.
 
 


Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: ScaryTooth on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 08:47:21 PM
I've been running it on high with 1280x1024 res. I could probably up the res even more, the game runs beautifully on my rig. No slow down at all really. The only time I actually noticed it was when I lined a hall with prox mines, and lured a big daddy down it. There were like 8 explosions at the same time, heh.

(http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/5812/ss6py5.th.jpg) (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss6py5.jpg)

(http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/1920/ss5ky7.th.jpg) (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss5ky7.jpg)

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 10:23:50 PM
ATI Hotfix (http://www.gamershell.com/news/41047.html)

Quote
ATI released two BioShock hotfixes for Windows XP and Windows Vista, adressing problems such as stuttering with preload, mnissing/black surfaces and/or display corruption (thanks Blues). The hotfixes also work for the 64-bit versions of these operating systems. For supported video cards check the readme. Enjoy!

Hope this is handy for y'all ATI users.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 11:06:22 PM
Been having a blast with this game on the 360.  No problems whatsoever, and the game can make you jump at times.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 12:15:56 AM
All right, we need to get some combat stuff in here.  How have you guys been playing?  I'm curious.  Keep it spoiler-free, though!

I've been using primarily fire and telekinesis on the plasmid side, with a heavy glut of machine gun usage coupled with some shotgun (especially the electric shells).  I find it incredibly amusing when I try to grab a guy's grenade and end up grabbing off his hat instead (which I then beat him with), and the fire, while somewhat standard, can create some amazing chaos in the right circumstances.  Most of my tonics have been defense or health related.

I feel like things are finally starting to open up a bit where they were more constrained before, though I find that this game is infinitely more open than SS2... which is both good and bad.  In SS2 you really had to make hard choices about what paths you wanted to take, while in BioShock it seems like you can basically do anything you want at any time, as long as you switch out your abilities at a Gene Bank.  This way you do at least get to see everything and figure out what's most fun for you, but I sort of miss having to make the harder choices like I did in SS2.  It's definitely a great step forward from that game in combat, though.  I love the combat.  It's fast, at least decently varied, and feels focused.  Big Daddy fights have been universally awesome so far.  At first I thought maybe they didn't have quite enough health, but after about 4 fights I feel like they're about right.  The balance is good.  They're tough on HARD, but not impossible, and they definitely can kill you multiple times if you haven't thought out a good plan beforehand.

Story is picking up nicely, too.  I love uncovering all the little pieces of the mystery.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 12:26:07 AM
Yeah, I'm selling it.  Not going to blame the game though, with the universal appeal it has to be me.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: ScaryTooth on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 12:32:26 AM
I've been using the wrench, shotgun, and pistol the most. As for plasmids, I switch it up quite a bit. If I'm wrenching it up, I like to use electric. Other times I just like lighting things on fire. Sometimes I like to just lob things at people with telekinesis. And I just got cyclone, so I've been messing with that quite a bit. I like to blast things up in the air, and then whip out the shotgun and either blast them in mid-air, or run up and shoot them in the head when they fall to the ground. Sometimes I hit them with the wrench when they are flying through the air, or just run up and finish them while they are getting up, if they live through it, that is.

Fire can create some awesome chaos. A little bit a ago, I walked into a room with a Big Daddy, little sister, and 4 splicers. I hit my fire plasmid and got one of the splicers. 3 of them started running toward me, including the one on fire. The one of fire ran through some oil, and that caught fire, and that in turn ignited some barrels of propane and such near by, they blew up and one of the tanks flew over and smacked the BD, lighting him on fire, and he in turn got pissed, and kicked my ass. Fun shit. 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 07:53:46 AM
Makes sense. Kinda. Though it would make me want to play in 4:3 more than widescreen.

And there seems to be some hubub on the forums about the activation. You can only do it...twice?
I think that quote you had in there is completely bogus.  The author is just playing semantics.  Whether or not the widescreen mode was came up with first or is "the optimal experience," the fact is that the 4:3 aspect ratio shows more than the 16:10 ratio does.

Whether they want to describe it as "the vertical view in 4:3 is slightly extended" or "the view is slightly cropped in 16:10" it is the exact same thing.

Widescreen gamers feel like they are getting the shaft and this article does nothing to address that.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 10:49:58 AM
I've just read both the IGN and Gamespot reviews again, and I think it is one of those rare occasions where I liked the IGN review more. While the writing on the IGN review felt a bit bumpy, the review overall felt more in touch with what was special about the game.

I don't know, I found the gamespot review to not even validate a 9.0 score. From what I understand, what makes the game special is its atmosphere and immersion. Gamespot took the whole first page (of the two page review) to describe in a very sterile manner the boring mechanics of the gameplay. I think they just dedicated one paragraph on the second page to talk about the atmosphere etc.

Overall I wasn't impressed by the review. Kasavin needs to come back.

Also wtf is this new scoring system? Kasavin would have never stood for it, I am sure. And it just shows what pussies gamespot are. The fact is that most of their scores have been spot on, yet they've been often criticized by the fanboy who is still having his honeymoon with his newly bought game.

Instead of taking the criticism in stride, gamespot castrated themselves by making the scoring system less controversial. Fuck them... its freakin' ridiculous. 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 12:00:37 PM
Yeah, I'm selling it.  Not going to blame the game though, with the universal appeal it has to be me.

Um, not sure.  Right now, I'm not having much fun either.  I'm stuck in this fairly small area where I got a camera.  For some reason, my way back to where I was seems to be blocked, and I can't go forward until I do what this part of the game wants me to do.  I can't get back to the area where I can upgrade with adam, even though I've harvested about 3 little sisters since getting stuck in here.  Big daddys seem to spawn almost as willy nilly as the lesser splicers.  Am I missing something?  I'm absolutely no match for these guys.  It's getting so that I don't even look for health kits.  Dying 5 times to take out one BD is not unusual.  Since death means nothing, it's gotten ridiculous.  I hardly care anymore.  Just step out in front of them, and knock off a little of their health.  Go through the vita chamber, and repeat.  This is the middle difficulty too, not the hard.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 12:06:53 PM
Weird.  I haven't had that problem at all.  Strange how people can have such different experiences with the same thing.  And you do realize you don't have to fight BDs at all, right?  If you just leave them alone, they ignore you.  Or you can use the BD plasmid to get them to follow you around and kick everyone's ass for you.  I think BDs spawn regardless of whether or not there's a Little Sister to grab.  They just wander, waiting for the sisters to come out, but once you get the sisters, they don't have anything to do but wander and get used as a tool (or, if you can manage to kill them expertly, as a good source of extra resources).

But yeah, as I've said I think the vita-chambers are the game's single fault.  *If* you don't abuse them, it's okay.  They haven't affected my game much because I do everything possible to stay alive so I don't have to trek back through the level to where I was at.  But if you just let yourself die over and over, I can see the game becoming very boring very fast, just because it almost feels like a cheat.  Like I said above somewhere, if there's one mod I want for this, it's to make the vita-chambers eat a huge chunk of your money when you use them.  There needs to be a substantial negative effect tied to them.

Otherwise I think the game is pure gold, though.  I don't find it boring in the least, nor do I find the combat substandard.  I'm thoroughly enjoying it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: ScaryTooth on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 12:08:21 PM
After you get the camera you have to jump down off a ledge to a room your were previously in, I think. BD's are tough. They are a bitch to kill if you just start shooting them without any cover or strategy.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 12:10:37 PM
Yeah, the best way to take them on is to think out a strategy first.  Get some gear, set up a trap of some kind, and make sure you can get a really big wallop right at the outset.  That to me is what's so fun about them.  You can't just run at them over and over again trying to shoot them down.  Even if they're at low health that sometimes isn't an option.  I went through 8 health packs on my first try for one of those guys, and I've since learned that you really do have to play it safe and logical, do everything you can to spin things to your advantage *first*.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 12:33:00 PM
That's how I started out.  I'd try to sneak up on them and blast them with whatever I figured would work best.  Then it's time to run, duck, take potshots, dance around . . .  Didn't work too well.  I hated dying at first too, but it got to happen so often that I just got numb to it.  I didn't realize that I could simply ignore them.  I thought they just couldn't detect you unless you were close up in front, or attacking them.  (I have read absolutely nothing on this game, not wanting even peripheral spoilers.)  I also didn't realize that there was a limited number of little sisters.  The constant random respawning was a disappointment, and I thought it applied across the board.

I'll figure it out.  At this point, I still think it's me, not the game.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: ScaryTooth on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 01:36:38 PM
The art direction is this game is awesome. I love how some of the weapons look like they were just thrown together with parts from junk lying around. Like the grenade launcher looks like some old tin cans and shit. It's dope.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 02:07:17 PM
The art direction is this game is awesome. I love how some of the weapons look like they were just thrown together with parts from junk lying around. Like the grenade launcher looks like some old tin cans and shit. It's dope.

Agreed.  This is one of the best (if not THE best) looking games on the 360.  They definitely did their homework on period art-deco stuff too.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 03:11:54 PM
Most definitely.  The look is amazing, and the sound design is absolutely incredible.  I'm not even using EAX, but the reverb effects they have on this thing are stellar.  I'm almost wishing that my wife wasn't "playing" it with me so that I could be using headphones and getting even more immersion out of it.

Again to Cobra, the best I can say is do your best to think outside the box.  Get creative, try weird things.  I can already think of several tactics that probably wouldn't have occurred to you.  At the point where I'm at, I was literally able to turn a single hallway into a gauntlet run of death on one occasion, and it took quite a lot of futzing around, but once I got the BD to come at me through it... it was just beautiful.

I'm starting to wonder if not having played SS2 beforehand might make this one a little more dense and hard to get into?  That doesn't seem right to me given how much more accessible it is than SS2, but I guess it's worth thinking about.  I mean, the same creativity in environmental stuff wasn't really present in SS2, but you definitely had to think about how to combo tactics and stuff.  It's just a lot more free-flowing in BioShock since you can essentially change your character's loadout any time you visit a Gene Bank.  There have been several occasions where I just ran out of a fight or potential fight, went to a Gene Bank because I had an idea, swapped out all my stuff, then went right back and tried out whatever idea it was that I'd had.

EDIT - Jeez.  This thing has now 16 perfect (100) reviews on MetaCritic, and they didn't even have some of the publications I listed before in this thread.  It's got a 96% average rating for the 360 on GameRankings (and 94% for PC), with a 97% for 360 on MetaCritic (and 96% for PC).  I find it somewhat odd that it doesn't fare as well on PC stats-wise, given that it can look better than the 360 version (and yes, it really can, I've seen them both), has a much-improved interface on PC, and doesn't appear to have a lot of bugs, if any at all.  Maybe it's the authentication/copy protection stuff that's knocking the scores down?

EDIT x2 - Yeah, I think I can officially say that I feel this is the best FPS ever made.  It did take a little time to get off the ground for me.  I was enjoying myself, but not to the insane extent which I am at this point.  Once I made it to Arcadia, things just completely turned around.  What was fun and cool before just increased a hundredfold.  It showed the game has more environmental tricks up its sleeve, has some thematic variety, can really give you the opportunity to do things in different ways (I just found myself using all kinds of different methods moving through the area as I went), and does eventually sort of ask you to specialize your character in certain regards.  While you can change it, it pays to use your available resources to focus on certain things, I think.  Also, the story was interesting before, but has continued to deepen at a consistent rate and has been very reliable in terms of delivery and pacing.  I'm more interested now than I was.  There are again more allusions to Atlas Shrugged, but in sort of warped, reversed fashions.  It's quite fascinating.

I would say there are indeed things that other FPS games have done better than BioShock, but I've never enjoyed a shooter quite so much as I'm now enjoying this one.  It's more than the sum of its parts, even though that sum is a pretty beast in its own right.  For those who still have doubts, maybe try to push in just a little further and see if things don't pick up for you.  I feel like I still wasn't quite in tune with the way the game's different facets come together until a couple hours ago, but now I'm starting to really think on my feet and act quickly, abuse situations to my advantage, enjoy different variables in the world, and the whole things seems to have adopted a much more rapid-fire string of excitements for me.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 06:48:10 PM
Stuff and things! (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48621)

Quote
With a swathe of announcements sure to send shockwaves reverberating throughout the BioShock internet community, publisher 2K Games has replaced BioShock's initial limit of two simultaneous PC installations with what community manager Elizabeth Tobey calls a "5 by 5 plan."

Under the new terms, users will be able to install the game on up to five computers, with the ability to reinstall the game on each computer up to five times. 2K will release a "revoke app" that should address issues resulting from the original limitations.

In a stunning reversal, 2K also announced plans to release a patch allowing PC users to adjust the game's FOV despite claiming the existing widescreen implementation was by design, as documented in our coverage of Aspect Ratiogate 07. An Xbox 360 patch is under consideration as well.

Prior to today's announcement, resourceful gamer Racer_S took matters into his own hands, applying a digital brand of widescreen vigilante justice and creating an unofficial patch. Tobey tipped her hat to the fan's efforts.

Along with the patch and policy changes, 2K is strengthening its tech support team, and has posted a technical FAQ addressing numerous concerns regarding SecuROM DRM and other issues. The company pledged a more streamlined experience with 2K and SecuROM tech support.

Finally, 2K has fixed its momentarily inactive activation server, allowing those previously unable to finish their game installs to do so.

2K appears to be proactively plugging holes, but Shacknews remains vigilant as Bioshockgate 07 continues to unfold. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: ScaryTooth on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 07:03:47 PM
This game is definitely one of the best first person shooters I've ever played. Not sure if it's the best, but it's a contender for sure. It all just comes together so well. I'm about 3/4 of the way through the game I think, and I don't want to stop playing. I just can't put it down. I want to hear the rest of the story. It's like a good book, or movie. It's awesome.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 07:33:06 PM
Glad to hear they're taking as good care of this one as they can, too.  Honestly, Liz (Tobey) has been just great, and she's really done a lot as liaison between 2K and the community (which is, to some degree, her job).  I give her tons of credit.  But it's good to see that they're taking this all seriously.  I've told people time and time again... stop bitching that you're going to resort to piracy, stop saying you won't buy the game.  Support a great game that you *want* with your money, but DO feel free to pitch a fit.  You don't *always* have to withhold money with every company.  You can still enjoy this game and be proactive in your complaints.  I bought it, I had no trouble with the install or anything else, but I'm still pissed off ideologically and I can still make a stink.  I have, along with others, and it's getting results.  Any company that has a history of paying attention to you (and with BioShock, that's all we've gotten is attention... these people have wanted to make us happy from day one) will listen to you if you speak up.

Anyway, I think it's great and hope that it continues.  I still think the whole authentication thing is stupid no matter how you look at it, but any acknowledgment of the issue is a good thing.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 08:34:07 PM
Here's hoping Pyro gets tons of enjoyment out of the copy I just sold him.  I'll give it another shot when its a bargain title.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 08:40:38 PM
Glad to hear they're taking as good care of this one as they can, too.  Honestly, Liz (Tobey) has been just great, and she's really done a lot as liaison between 2K and the community (which is, to some degree, her job).  I give her tons of credit.  But it's good to see that they're taking this all seriously.  I've told people time and time again... stop bitching that you're going to resort to piracy, stop saying you won't buy the game.  Support a great game that you *want* with your money, but DO feel free to pitch a fit.  You don't *always* have to withhold money with every company.  You can still enjoy this game and be proactive in your complaints.  I bought it, I had no trouble with the install or anything else, but I'm still pissed off ideologically and I can still make a stink.  I have, along with others, and it's getting results.  Any company that has a history of paying attention to you (and with BioShock, that's all we've gotten is attention... these people have wanted to make us happy from day one) will listen to you if you speak up.
Amen, Que -- I agree w/ you 100%.

Yes, Liz has done a good job of keeping us informed w/ matters, as much as she possibly can.

But, this whole stink that Bioshock's CRP (copyright protection) is causing can be a blessing in disguise. For years, PC gamers have told companies to not use ridiculous and unnecessary methods of copyright protection -- maybe, companies will wake the hell up and stop trying to use such trashy CRP's like StarForce and the latest edition of Securom.

I never had issues w/ Securom, until trying to Authenticate Bioshock online -- took me 3 tries, to get the game activated. That's minor, compared to what other gamers are going through w/ this...

Quote
Anyway, I think it's great and hope that it continues.  I still think the whole authentication thing is stupid no matter how you look at it, but any acknowledgment of the issue is a good thing.
I think it's stupid, too -- especially for a SP-based game.

EDIT:
I just through this photo was funny, from this article (http://kotaku.com/gaming/pc/bioshock-cp-hassles-continue-292603.php)...
(http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/08/bioshockbuttsechs.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: PyroMenace on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 08:44:11 PM
As K-Man mentioned I got his copy and I plan to take the whole night to delve into it. Though Ive been out of my usual mood as of late, but I think this will help.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 08:44:56 PM
As K-Man mentioned I got his copy and I plan to take the whole night to delve into it. Though Ive been out of my usual mood as of late, but I think this will help.

Did he uninstall the game while he was online to get you your "refund"? :P
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 08:47:57 PM
Did he uninstall the game while he was online to get you your "refund"? :P



No. All I had to do to get around the authentication BS was to press 'eject' on my Xbox 360 and place the game back in its case.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 08:53:34 PM

No. All I had to do to get around the authentication BS was to press 'eject' on my Xbox 360 and place the game back in its case.

Hahaha nice, we really need a rimshot smiley.  Also Que, I am reading Atlas Shrugged, I'm about 130 pages in and enjoying it so far.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 08:57:32 PM

No. All I had to do to get around the authentication BS was to press 'eject' on my Xbox 360 and place the game back in its case.

Wo0t!!!

That works! :)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 23, 2007, 09:31:54 PM
Hahaha nice, we really need a rimshot smiley.  Also Que, I am reading Atlas Shrugged, I'm about 130 pages in and enjoying it so far.

Glad to hear it.  It's a bit dry given the subject matter, but stick with it.  Despite some of the sillier bits that require a little bit of a leap of faith, it's mostly a great read, especially towards the end.

EDIT - According to the Cult site, Liz is apparently considering giving the guy that made that unofficial widescreen patch an 8800.  Fucking hell, how can people possibly be complaining about the way 2K treats them?

EDIT x2 - And for fuck's sake, I just found out they released the entire fucking original score (http://downloads.2kgames.com/bioshock/BioShock_Score.zip) for BioShock FOR FREE.  So the Moby remix CD thing with the LE is an ADDED BONUS over the ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK because that was ALREADY RELEASED.  I haven't wanted to kick so many people in the nuts since... since... like... I don't know.  But hot damn I need some nut-kicking to happen.

EDIT x3 - Soundtrack is really worth the download.  Good stuff.  Here's an interview with the guy who made it happen (http://www.music4games.net/Features_Display.aspx?id=156).

EDIT x4 - Those interested in BioShock and its theoretical relations to Randian philosophy should check out this thread (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222).  I only made it to about page 9, and the thread creator seemed blatantly wrong about plenty (despite being smart), but it's interesting to see the interplay between more liberal/more conservative people and the general philosophy, how people twist it, what people think it means, and how little BioShock probably really gets into it all in the end.  I hope to come back and finish the thread tomorrow to see what people are saying now that the game is out.  Personally, I feel like the game takes its initial building blocks from some of that stuff, builds on top of that, and then just starts to branch out in crazy directions that don't attempt to make any points about ideology whatsoever.  Of course, I'm not yet at the end of the game, but it's very plain to me that this is entertainment first and foremost, and there is no true allegory or commentary here.  Not in a true sense.  That doesn't make it any less interesting, or negate the fact that it may well turn people on to Rand and her philosophies, whether they agree with them or not.

EDIT x5 - There are still rational people in the world (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7345), thank God.  I've failed to see from the beginning why the widescreen thing is an issue, and I think that thread pretty much says it all.  I'm so fucking tired of people.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Friday, August 24, 2007, 11:46:11 AM
It's cool they are going to fix the widescreen issue.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 24, 2007, 11:51:26 AM
With this program (http://jerome.jouvie.free.fr/Fmod/Projects/Project1.php?evolution=true), you can get the rest of the music that wasn't included in the free released soundtrack (such as the licensed stuff).  It's all in the FSB files in the game directory.  Well, for PC users.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, August 24, 2007, 01:15:53 PM
I think it's an issue because the widescreen people somehow feel like they should get the superior view, since their screens probably cost more money.  Haha.  Let's face it: you get more screen area with the same footprint at 4:3 than at 16:10 or 16:9.  Why not use it to best advantage?  There's a tech limitation in there too.  If you show a lot more geometry at once, the frame rate may get killed.

I've gotten a lot more into the game since last time I posted.  Survival by the skin of my teeth is no longer all-consuming.  I can actually appreciate a bit of the world and the back story now.  It's still harder than I like to stay stocked up and ready to go.  I've said this before: if a game is going to throw infinite enemies at me, then it also needs to give me infinite resources.  Some lock boxes and other items reappear randomly, but nothing like the wealth of stuff you get in virgin territory.  Big daddys leave enough money behind to pay for what it took to kill them, but nothing else does.  I find myself scrounging for ammo, health and eve way too much. 

One problem that probably affects me more than others is the complete lack of sync between voices and subtitles.  I like to read as I listen, and it completely throws me off when the subtitles switch over to the next lines way before the speaker has gotten to them.  I normally like subtitles, but maybe I should disable them here.

I sorely miss mouse control, and I have an annoying problem with the right stick drifting to the right occasionally.  (Is there a way to force the game or the 360 to recalibrate?)  But I have gotten used to the controller pretty well now.  The crossbow will never be as effective on the 360 as on a good PC, though.  Shotguns, machine guns and chem spreaders are the better weapon choices here.

It's far from a disappointment, though.  I find it very hard to quit the game even after I'm bleary-eyed.  Sometimes I'll blink and it will hurt, telling me that I haven't been blinking nearly enough.  The world is richly detailed and consistent.  The characters are terrific.  Some are so lifelike that it's scary, in a different sense from extra ugly.  (Anyone see Phantom of the Opera?)  The amount of love and work here is staggering.  I'm already making plans to replay the game on easy, just so I can spend more time appreciating what's here than avoiding it.  I also want to pay a lot more close attention to the story, which has been sort of a blur so far.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 24, 2007, 01:44:37 PM
That's awesome that they released the score for free!!!

But really, though -- why put the score in the Limited Edition, if you plan to release it online for FREE???
*Scratches my head*

If that's the case, they should've put SOMETHING else in the LE -- maybe the art book; even though they released that online only, I'm sure it'd cost a pretty penny to try and get that printed at a print-store or it'll cost the person printing it themselves at home probably LOTS OF INK CATRIDGES.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Friday, August 24, 2007, 01:49:57 PM
From what I read, the songs on the CD included with the LE are only the songs not included in the free download.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 24, 2007, 02:19:42 PM
With this program (http://jerome.jouvie.free.fr/Fmod/Projects/Project1.php?evolution=true), you can get the rest of the music that wasn't included in the free released soundtrack (such as the licensed stuff).  It's all in the FSB files in the game directory.  Well, for PC users.

Que, I DL'ed this version of the player.... (http://jerome.jouvie.free.fr/downloads/Download.php?fileName=fmodProject1Jar&fileUrl=NativeFmodEx/MusicPlayerEx/MusicPlayerEx-Installed.rar)

...but, where the hell is "'MusicPlayerEx.reg Generator.bat' file?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 24, 2007, 02:32:42 PM
I... have no idea?  I just used the .EXE.  It played stuff okay, but I couldn't convert it.  I was looking for the licensed tracks, which are the only tracks not released at this point (either by way of the LE, which had remixed stuff, or the free download, which was all original music composed for the game).

Glad to hear you're liking it better, Cobra.  I'm playing on hard and am having roughly the experience you are, but that makes sense since I'm hard.  I've heard some complaints that there's too much ammo and stuff, so I dunno'.  I feel you about the controller, though.  When so used to a mouse and keyboard it can be hard to go back.  But I'm glad you're enjoying it either way.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Friday, August 24, 2007, 03:55:57 PM
I think it's an issue because the widescreen people somehow feel like they should get the superior view, since their screens probably cost more money.
Untrue.  4:3 movies are cropped versions of the widescreen originals.  People think it should work the same for games.

Basically there is an expectation that's not being fulfilled.

Quote
Haha.  Let's face it: you get more screen area with the same footprint at 4:3 than at 16:10 or 16:9.  Why not use it to best advantage?  There's a tech limitation in there too.  If you show a lot more geometry at once, the frame rate may get killed.
You act like the tech limitation is the reason that the widescreen version is the cropped version.  Does this same limitation not apply to a 4:3 view that shows more at the top and bottom vs. a widescreen view that shows more on the sides?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 24, 2007, 04:17:56 PM
Glad to hear it.  It's a bit dry given the subject matter, but stick with it.  Despite some of the sillier bits that require a little bit of a leap of faith, it's mostly a great read, especially towards the end.

EDIT - According to the Cult site, Liz is apparently considering giving the guy that made that unofficial widescreen patch an 8800.  Fucking hell, how can people possibly be complaining about the way 2K treats them?

Do you think that given what Liz is offering Racer_S, maybe Irrational/2K might include that Widescreen user mod in a future official Bioshock patch???

That'd be pretty cool, if Racer gets his/her user made Widescreen patch basically included into the game by 2K, in a future patch.

Hell, it sounds like he basically did Irrational/2K's work for them! :P
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 24, 2007, 05:09:59 PM
Of course I don't think that.  They'd never do such a thing.  That would be professionally irresponsible (unless they got somebody to review whatever he did and ensure it was great... but it's doubtful he went about it the best way possible).

Also, scott, people can expect whatever they want, nobody's obligated to give that to them.  As a non-widescreen user, I find this perfectly jolly.  Fuck everybody else.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 24, 2007, 05:14:13 PM
Of course I don't think that.  They'd never do such a thing.  That would be professionally irresponsible (unless they got somebody to review whatever he did and ensure it was great... but it's doubtful he went about it the best way possible).

Here's a question...

....Can anyone think of a time when a modder made such a good mod that the game designers reviewed it (to make sure it didn' cause any other issues for the game) and directly incorporated it right into a patch???

I'm trying to think of one, myself...


Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Friday, August 24, 2007, 05:36:46 PM
Also, scott, people can expect whatever they want, nobody's obligated to give that to them.  As a non-widescreen user, I find this perfectly jolly.  Fuck everybody else.
You are right, but missing the point at the same time.  I'll restate what I said earlier.  There is a longstanding understanding that 4:3 movies are cropped versions of the widescreen originals.  It's just the way it is.

Sure, games and movies are not the same thing and there isn't really a static medium in games like camera film.  There is just data, and it can be displayed on a screen in any number of ways.  But both  games and movies output to the same (or very similar) devices and so the assumption remains.

So while you're right that no one is obligated to meet expectations, to simply brush off the expectations as so insignificant is a mistake, I think.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, August 24, 2007, 07:01:08 PM
Untrue.  4:3 movies are cropped versions of the widescreen originals.  People think it should work the same for games.

Basically there is an expectation that's not being fulfilled.
You act like the tech limitation is the reason that the widescreen version is the cropped version.  Does this same limitation not apply to a 4:3 view that shows more at the top and bottom vs. a widescreen view that shows more on the sides?

This isn't a movie.  It's a game.  Games are traditionally developed in a 4:3 environment.  I imagine Bioshock started out being developed in 4:3, then the big 16:10/16:9 revolution took place.  I expect for the developers to make the best of the current technology, but their mindsets will get in the way, as do most people's.

The Wizard of Oz once got a widescreen release.  That movie is from the late 30s, so it was 4:3 to begin with.  Guess what they did to make it widescreen.  Yep.  It's considered inferior to the 4:3 version now, of course.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 24, 2007, 07:05:34 PM
If there was a standard practice (and if they hadn't already stated their intentions in doing it the way they did), it might matter.  But neither is true, so I fail to see why it's an issue for anyone.  It isn't going to fuck over the gameplay experience given that it was designed that way intentionally, so who really cares?  See the other thread for screen comparisons of the way widescreen looks in HL2 and Halo 3 for a perfect example of the fact that it *does* meet basically the exact standard for what widescreen generally does.  They just didn't fuck over SD users for a change.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 24, 2007, 08:11:29 PM
Joystiq interviews Levine on a number of things -- the Patriot-Ledger (local paper in Boston) calling Bioshock a "little girl killing simulator", the issues w/ the activation process, will Irrational plan to eventually pull the plug on the activation thing eventually, the whole widescreen ordeal, will there be a PS3 version of Bioshock, will there be a Bioshock 2, etc etc. (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/24/joystiq-interviews-bioshocks-ken-levine-about-success-and-harve/)

Quote
Joystiq: Now, let's see if we can put this in the simplest terms, this screen thing has taken on a whole life of its own. The game was designed for widescreen. Instead of doing the normal thing and just chopping off the sides for full screen, you actually added more to the top and bottom so full screen people wouldn't lose anything from the sides -- a very nice thing to do actually. Thus, infuriating the PC owners and almost anyone else with widescreen because how dare you not give them more to see like they're used to. So, now this patch will add in the stuff to the side of the full screen. So, in essence, to use a visual term, this patch just zooms the camera out a little bit to appease PC widescreen owners to give the option of increased field of vision?

Levine: We started the game widescreen. We primarily designed it for widescreen. Then we had to ask, "How do we make it full screen." Your options are to put black bars at the top and bottom, keep same width perspective. Or you allow to ... add pixels to the top and the bottom if you can afford the frame rate -- we could. So the call was made to show those few more pixels. Now this is one of those things when you're making a game -- like I was making a game -- honestly, if somebody came from the future and told me this was an issue I would have laughed at them. I would have said, "Are you kidding me?" But that's what's interesting about gamers, they're an interesting and diverse group. Now that I know that there's this huge contingent out there that actually really cares about this, I wouldn't have laughed at them because they're stupid, I would have laughed because I couldn't have imagined that people are passionate about this. And now that we know they're passionate, we have a responsibility to respond to those people and give them what they want. It's their game, they paid money for it, they should be able to play in the way they want to play. We may disagree with them aesthetically, but sure, we'll make a patch and make if work for them.

Okay, so it's our game...

...When it's our game entirely, I think the plug will be pulled on the activation bullshit. :P

Just let the game-disc do the CRP-check, please...

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Friday, August 24, 2007, 08:38:45 PM
You know, he mentions eventually removing the DRM and online check in the future in that very interview.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 24, 2007, 08:44:26 PM
He does.  And please stop calling it CRP.  It isn't copyright protection, it's copy protection, as in keeping you from making usable copies.  And Irrational had nothing to do with any of that in the first place, I'm sure.  That's the publisher's territory, so it's pointless to take design-related comments and relate them to something the developer has no control over in the first place (other than probably a little tug in one direction or another if they really want to be die-hard about it).

Anyway.  I'm going to pull a MyD and quote/respond just for once.

Quote
We started the game widescreen. We primarily designed it for widescreen. Then we had to ask, "How do we make it full screen." Your options are to put black bars at the top and bottom, keep same width perspective. Or you allow to ... add pixels to the top and the bottom if you can afford the frame rate -- we could. So the call was made to show those few more pixels. Now this is one of those things when you're making a game -- like I was making a game -- honestly, if somebody came from the future and told me this was an issue I would have laughed at them. I would have said, "Are you kidding me?" But that's what's interesting about gamers, they're an interesting and diverse group. Now that I know that there's this huge contingent out there that actually really cares about this, I wouldn't have laughed at them because they're stupid, I would have laughed because I couldn't have imagined that people are passionate about this. And now that we know they're passionate, we have a responsibility to respond to those people and give them what they want. It's their game, they paid money for it, they should be able to play in the way they want to play. We may disagree with them aesthetically, but sure, we'll make a patch and make if work for them.

In other words, "Because you people are a bunch of whining bitches, we'll let you cheat."  Let's face it, that's all FOV is *ever* used for - cheating.  Not that I think it'll make a great deal of difference, but I find 90% of people's complaints in regards to this game completely baseless and utterly sophomoric.  It's really beginning to get on my nerves.

Anyway, neat interview.  Nice to hear him directly address some stuff.

To further my own experience with the game, I'm loving it still.  The level I'm in now isn't terribly interesting environmentally (though it isn't bad by any means), but I've had some really great, tough, totally shocking, laugh-out-loud *gameplay* experiences that have made up for it being somewhat less heavy on the aesthetic values.  The gameplay here is great.  It's really just standard concepts that are built to allow for a lot of variety.  It's such a simple thing that can lead to such surprising results at times.  It's great.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Friday, August 24, 2007, 08:50:09 PM
How is FOV a cheat in a singleplayer game exactly?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 24, 2007, 08:53:55 PM
You know, he mentions eventually removing the DRM and online check in the future in that very interview.

I know....
...but, when the hell might that be??

2010? 2020? 2030?

When the game goes out of print?!?!?!?

Okay, here's a safe bet -- the DRM and online check will probably be removed before DNF ever gets released.... :P
 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 24, 2007, 08:54:58 PM
Idol - same way it would be in an MP game.  It gives you a greater range of vision than you're supposed to have according to the way the game was designed.  I'm not saying it makes a great deal of difference, as I already stated, I just fail to see why people don't understand they're playing the game the way it was designed.  They make it sound as though they're getting gipped somehow.

MyD - Shut up. Please?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 24, 2007, 09:01:34 PM
I don't often use Widescreen for playing a game...

...Actually, some games just put your game always in wide-screen, like it or not -- such as RE4 for the PC.

As far as I'm concerned, they have NO OBLIGATION to put the game in both modes. Whether they choose widescreen or fullscreen, that's their decision. They made the damn game -- most games force you into either Wide of Full; end of story.

It is really good of Irrational/2K to give gamers the option b/t Fullscreen and some sort of Widescreen in the first place -- and that upcoming patch to improve Widescreen is quite nice of Irrational.

EDIT:
Come to think of it, you know, Irrational has done a lot of very nice things for us w/ Bioshock, of late -- the free art book PDF download and the Free Soundtrack download, to mention a few things.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Friday, August 24, 2007, 09:01:58 PM
I know they are going a bit overboard, but saying FOV is a cheat in SP is...eh, not accurate. Its not like seeing a few more degrees is going to break the game or anything, "Oh God, he can see enemies to the side a little bit sooner, now the game is going to be a cakewalk!"

And I've noticed you've taken the whole online activation/limited install thing fairly well considering your usual stance on this kind of thing. Bioshock fanboy goggles in place? :P
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 24, 2007, 09:31:19 PM
As far as I'm concerned, they have NO OBLIGATION to put the game in both modes. Whether they choose widescreen or fullscreen, that's their decision. They made the damn game -- most games force you into either Wide of Full; end of story.

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.  And I hate to break it to you, but MOST games DO support both wide and full screen.  It wasn't the norm to letterbox anything on an SD display until lazy developers on the 360.

And idol, I'm not really saying it's a cheat.  That wasn't the proper wording.  I'm saying it's giving yourself something you weren't supposed to have.  People are complaining as though they're being *gipped*, as though something is being taken away from them, when that isn't the case.  So what they're asking for is *luxury*.  They're outraged that they aren't being given luxury, but they *think* they're outraged at having something withheld from them.  I'm just trying to point out that they're stupid, that they don't even know what they're actually complaining about.

Also, no, I haven't taken the authentication stuff lying down.  I complained about it when it was first announced and I've been decrying it along with everyone else at the Cult site.  The difference is I'm trying to be reasonable about it.  I don't agree with online activation, I don't agree with install limits, I don't agree with SecuROM or any of its brethren that hamper legitimate customers while doing virtually nothing to stop or even HINDER piracy.  However, that isn't going to keep me from playing the game I've been waiting 8 years for.  I'm still going to support Irrational with my money, I'm just not going to remain quiet about the issue.  If nobody had complained, the install limits wouldn't have been raised, the number of computers one can install to wouldn't have been raised, and we wouldn't have found out that they planned to simply deactivate the need for online authentication at some point in the future.  Some companies will never listen, but if enough people complain, chances are good you don't have to boycott a product to get your point across.  There may well come a time in the future when that isn't the case, and certainly with some companies (Microsoft) you can scream until you're blue in the face and never achieve a damned thing, but 2K has been very, very responsive to fans with BioShock.

And hell, it isn't Steam.  I even caved on that issue with HL2 (though I regretted it afterward).  This was a far easier pill to swallow, all things considered.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Saturday, August 25, 2007, 12:12:21 AM
As far as I'm concerned, they have NO OBLIGATION to put the game in both modes. Whether they choose widescreen or fullscreen, that's their decision. They made the damn game -- most games force you into either Wide of Full; end of story.

Hahaha, really man what games have you been playing... before you quote me then answer - is a rhetorical question.

Edit threads like this are better then most reviews.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 25, 2007, 12:23:31 AM
Also, for those trying to rip the music, I couldn't get the program I linked to before to work right.  But if you check out EkszBox-ABX_v1.6, you should be good to go (just google it).  It's extracting everything to .WAV just fine, then you can convert to MP3 or whatever you want from there.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Saturday, August 25, 2007, 01:12:52 AM
I just ran through a major chunk of the game.  I thought I was nearly done, but I was pleasantly surprised.  It's getting tougher now, with more enemies and whatnot, but I'm well stocked and all.  And I really must say, the
(click to show/hide)
are very very useful.  Not sure if it was spoiler worthy, but better safe than sorry. 
It's almost like a different game now, too.  Whereas before I had to scrounge and scrape for any ammo or first aid and hypos, now they're in fairly abundant supply.  I'm gonna have to play through this at least a couple more times just to do everything I wanna do.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, August 25, 2007, 06:21:22 AM
I don't often use Widescreen for playing a game...

As far as I'm concerned, they have NO OBLIGATION to put the game in both modes. Whether they choose widescreen or fullscreen, that's their decision. They made the damn game -- most games force you into either Wide of Full; end of story.


That's pretty stupid, I am sorry.

Just about every game out there supports widescreen.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Saturday, August 25, 2007, 07:49:53 AM
This isn't a movie.  It's a game.  Games are traditionally developed in a 4:3 environment.  I imagine Bioshock started out being developed in 4:3, then the big 16:10/16:9 revolution took place.  I expect for the developers to make the best of the current technology, but their mindsets will get in the way, as do most people's.

The Wizard of Oz once got a widescreen release.  That movie is from the late 30s, so it was 4:3 to begin with.  Guess what they did to make it widescreen.  Yep.  It's considered inferior to the 4:3 version now, of course.
You missed the point of my post entirely.  You said the reason that people were upset because they felt entitled to get the larger FOV because they paid more for their monitor.  I was merely debunking that notion.

Again, even though games and movies are different mediums that have been rendered to screen in very different ways until late, there is still an expected behavior.  That is why people are upset.  It has nothing to do with the cost of the monitor.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 25, 2007, 09:28:14 AM
Y'know, I really like the Photo/Research part of the game, w/ the Camera and all. I seem to be doing that, a lot -- and getting lots of bonuses and whatnot for doing soon.

I like the Invisibility-Stand-Still Skill I got, too.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, August 25, 2007, 11:52:24 AM
You missed the point of my post entirely.  You said the reason that people were upset because they felt entitled to get the larger FOV because they paid more for their monitor.  I was merely debunking that notion.

Again, even though games and movies are different mediums that have been rendered to screen in very different ways until late, there is still an expected behavior.  That is why people are upset.  It has nothing to do with the cost of the monitor.

I'm sorry.  I just don't get the point.  Turns out I was wrong, according to that Joystiq interview.  The game was designed for widescreen.  I wasn't wrong about why widescreen people were upset though: they feel entitled to get a bigger view into the world than the 4:3 people.  The fact that I was wrong about the game's initial design makes them out to be even worse whiny bitches, no?  The game wasn't cropped top and bottom to make it fit in widescreen; it was opened up vertically to fit in 4:3.  If it's not the cost of the monitor, or that their superiority complex got dashed, then what is it?

I use widescreen, by the way.   It's a 16:9 TV, so I guess it even has slightly less vertical area than on a 16:10 PC monitor.  I'm happy to know that I'm seeing what I'm supposed to be seeing, by design, not a cropped view.  I don't begrudge others getting more view than the design intended.  If a FOV patch makes everyone happy, great.  They're lucky the Irrational people are going above and beyond what they need to care about.

I keep going back and forth between hating and loving the game.  Once again things degenerated into allowing myself to die a thousand deaths, in this one area where I had nowhere near enough stuff to fend off the hordes of splicers, plus a big daddy that got caught up in my insect swarm.  (I hate that I can't prevent BDs from getting attacked by the bees.  I love this plasmid otherwise.)  Fortunately, it got much better later.  What I really like are the exploration, discovery and development aspects.  I got to do a lot of that late last night.

One thing I thought I should pass along:  Get the damage upgrade for the crossbow, but don't get the bolt-breakage one.  The ridiculous increase in visual obstruction is absolutely not worth the benefit.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Saturday, August 25, 2007, 11:56:36 AM
Newest PCGamer Podcast (http://pcgamerpodcast.com/): Bioshock stuff plus Ken Levine interview. Some of it is the same as what you read in the Joystiq Q&A but still worth a listen.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, August 25, 2007, 11:38:08 PM
I finished the game, and although I think I wouldn't have nearly as much trouble during a replay on medium, I've decided to do it on easy.  It must be reflexes or something, maybe I just don't like the adrenalin thing so much anymore.  I want to go through without being in constant fear of imminent death, get to explore and enjoy the awesome world of Rapture.  Easy is definitely much easier, and seems perfectly suited for what I want to do.  I'm also dealing with the little sisters the other way, which has unexpected advantages.

(click to show/hide)

In the process, I've gotten used to the controller.  While it's still no kb/mouse, I can line things up pretty well by coordinating the 2 sticks.  I can see someone getting really good at this.  I think getting analog footwork slightly compensates for the inferior look/aim mechanism.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 26, 2007, 10:40:48 PM
Well, I finished the game tonight.  Holy hell, what a game.

I can completely see now what he was talking about in the PCG review when it said the end was sort of like Neo fighting a Mr. Smith made up of a bunch of tiny Mr. Smiths... but at the same time, it's somewhat baseless.  I went the "good" route, and the game's ending was unbelievably awesome.  But SHORT.  Seriously, it's like less than a minute long.  Still, it was beautiful and very much in line with the rest of the game.  It was great.  The last climactic battle, though... it was a little ho-hum.  Now it was *fun*.  I enjoyed myself.  Just thematically, like I said, I can kind of see where the PCG guy was coming from when he said what he said.  I don't feel as badly about it as he did, but it was definitely just a bit too "videogamey" for a game that was such high art up until that point.  Still, it *was* fun to play, and the last moments of it were just fucking great with the ending I got (not sure if the end of the fight is different along the other path.... there are several things in the game that I think would have to fundamentally change depending on your choices, not just the ending).  Anyway, I feel very sorry for anybody that didn't stick with this long enough to get to where it really and truly took off.  The whole latter half of the game was just brilliant.

So after completing the game, I'll tell you what my two biggest issues with it were:

A - The Vita-Chambers (free unlimited lives, basically) are really only a problem if you let them become one.  I used them when things were really hard and I just couldn't seem to get past something, but that only happened maybe twice in the whole game.  Generally speaking I tried very hard to stay alive, using my health packs like I would in any other game, and I felt it was balanced very well.  If you abuse the chambers, your game is going to be boring as fuck, yes; but if you make a conscious effort to play the game as though they weren't there, they serve only as a last-ditch way to continue without getting really frustrated... and THAT'S not so bad.  I think the mod that I would create wouldn't be to just make Vita-Chambers drain your finances when used, as I said before, it would instead be that you could only use them if you had no health resources left to you when you died.  Then it would keep you from being super frustrated at any point if you just couldn't seem to get beyond a certain point (and the game has enough variables that it can theoretically get a bit rough on you just because of random things in the game world... like any other game that adopts this kind of philosophy), but it wouldn't allow you to just abuse it to make your life easier.  I think this is the best solution to the way it currently works.  Still, it didn't deter my enjoyment of the game one iota because I simply refused to let it.

B - My biggest complaint with the game - those guys that occasionally sing a couple bars of "Jesus loves me".  I get why they put it in there, and had it been part of a scripted sequence just to add a little unsettling imagery to things, or... whatever, fine.  But as idle enemy chatter that plays from each of those "type" every few minutes?  Holy crap that gets more annoying that I can even express.  Seriously, I hope they address this in a patch.  It's the one thing that I truly feel is obnoxious to the point of my actual annoyance.  It isn't really even that bad, either, but it's definitely the top thing on my list.

But that's about it.  There were a couple other niggles I had here or there (one of which I can't talk about because it relates a heavy spoiler), but I've mostly forgotten these or they ended up becoming irrelevant as the game progressed.  So I guess they couldn't have been too important, eh?  All in all, I stand by what I said earlier: this is the best FPS I have ever played, bar none.  It took a little while to get going, there were a couple of things that didn't seem to perfectly jive with the high design and concept the game had, but it was emotionally engaging, had a great plot, was full of twists and surprises (that *still* got me even though I had the game spoiled for me by someone, because the twists couldn't just be summed up in a thread title and were still amazing to watch happen), and there were some incredible moments that just meshed perfectly with the characters and the world and the actions one would take and the emotions one would feel, in the end becoming these deeply memorable events in one's mind that could only be forever ingrained there after witnessing them.

Kudos to Irrational.  They deserve every measure of success for this.  I sincerely hope that the inclusion of SecuROM by 2K doesn't fuck up their financial success.  These people deserve to be showered with money.

Also, as a brief aside, I've been trying to get a list of all the licensed music in the game, along with several others at the Cult site.  It's been pretty good going thus far and I think we've got most of them... but there are a few that nobody can figure out.  I've tried my best and just not had any luck, though I did manage to include a couple in the list that others hadn't figured out.  So I asked Ken about it, and he responded saying that he didn't have a list handy but that he'd try to get one.  Awesome!  He also told me that he really wants to put together a bigger, better soundtrack with all the licensed stuff and offer that for sale (I mentioned to him that many of us would love one and he said he'd been talking about it over dinner with his wife and the "real" Joe McDonagh) but has to clear it with the brass first, so it may or may not happen.

For anybody that would like to help on the music front, here's the list of filenames that need to be identified (a few are duplicates) and the list of what's identified that's currently standing over at the Cult site.

Quote
The list:

20thcenturyblues.wav
Academyaward.wav
Beimir.wav
Beimirbistduscho*.wav
Brothersparedime.wav
Cohenscherzo.wav Dannyboy.wav
Godblesschild.wav
Howmuchdoggy.wav
Ifididntcare.wav
Ithadtobeyou.wav
Itsbadforme.wav
Jitterbugwaltz.wav
Justwalkingrain.wav
Lamer Bigband.wav
Lamer.wav
Liza.wav
Nightday.wav
Papalovesmambo.wav
Pleasebekind.wav
Riserapturerise.wav
Thebestthi.wav
Thebestthingsinl@.wav
Thepartysover.wav
Waltzoftheflowe.wav
Waltzoftheflower.wav
Waltzoftheflower?.wav
Wildride.wav
Worldweary.wav
Wrapyourtroubles.wav
Yourethetop.wav

What's identified:

    * Nutcracker (Waltz of the Flowers) - Peter Illyich Tchaikovsky
    * The Party's Over - Judy Holliday
    * Please Be Kind - Frank Sinatra
    * Beyond the Sea - Bobby Darin
    * Papa Loves Mambo - Perry Como
    * Jitterbug Waltz - Fats Waller
    * Night and Day - Cole Porter
    * It Had to Be You - (Priscilla Lane, Danny Thomas, or Dolley Wilson?)
    * The Best Things in Life are Free - Buddy De Sylva/Lew Brown
    * Wrap Your Troubles In Dreams - Bing Crosby
    * Brother Can You Spare A Dime - Bing Crosby
    * Oh Danny Boy - Bing Crosby
    * You're the Top - Cole Porter
    * It's Bad For Me - Cole Porter
    * 20th Century Blues - Noel Coward
    * World Weary - Noel Coward
    * How Much Is That Doggie In The Windows - Patti Page
    * Bei Mir Bist Du Schon - The Andrews Sisters
    * God Bless The Child - Billie Holiday
    * Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray
    * If I Didn't Care - The Inkspots[/quote]

EDIT - Just finished compiling my own version of the soundtrack.  66 tracks (though that's deceiving, a fair number of those are recordings/PSAs/ads from the game thrown in for flavor) and pretty well thought out if I do say so myself.  Just over 2 hours of music.  I'm a happy man.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, August 27, 2007, 02:03:18 PM
I have yet to finish Bioshock, but.....

Andrew Ryan, ATLAS, & Where MyD is At Currently SPOILERS -- LATE IN THE GAME SPOILERS
(click to show/hide)

But, yes -- the game's absolutely amazing.

My only major complaint is probably what Que's is -- no real freakin' penalty for dieing, regardless of what difficulty you pick. The game never penalizes you, the player, for dying, in any form -- you'll always be sent back to a Vita-Chamber. It's a nice touch for a gamer who just wants to finish the game, but there should be a penalty for death -- at least on HIGHER difficulties. I think the penalty should be all ALIVE enemies' health should be RESET to full strength, myself.

Even the System Shock 2 idea of "we take some money from you for you reforming" would work as a decent penalty in Bioshock, if you ask me. Though, I think RESETING the health of ALL alive enemies in the area is a much nastier twist -- it makes you really TRY to STAY the HELL alive so that you don't have to start again w/ trying to kill something tough like a Big Daddy.

I wish the game was a little more open-ended and all like say STALKER was, w/ having a few more side goals and things to do other than just the main quest itself, but really though -- no big deal. The game does give you choices, on some things -- such as deciding to free or harvest the Lil Sisters. And, w/ what kind of abilities you'd like to upgrade to. Oh, and I love the research thing you can do, to gain bonuses and stuff on enemies and for yourself.

Bioshock is a landmark shooter. Right out of the box, it's one of the best and most polished shooters ever made in just about every regard -- presentation, voice-acting, music, sound effects, graphics, gameplay, and combat. For me, Bioshock's up there w/ Quake 2, Deus Ex (original), FEAR and  STALKER -- which are some of my favorite shooters of all time.

I need to finish this one...
And, start up w/ running through it again, going a different route...

 
EDIT, 11:47pm Eastern:
I just finished it. Yup, it was great, to say the least.
Oh, and I got the evil ending, too -- heh! That ending was awesome! Short ending, but awesome.

I should play through again and try and get a much nicer ending.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 27, 2007, 10:05:03 PM
Weird happenings at the Cult forums.  As I believe I mentioned earlier, there was a big thread Ken had started talking about various issues.  He answered a lot of questions and was just generally being a nice guy to everyone.  People were pleased, though possibly flooding him with too many questions.  Suddenly today we all found that the thread had disappeared.  The mods don't know what happened to it either.  Unfortunately, most people are suspecting that the brass wasn't happy with some of Ken's candid answers about people's concerns and canned it.  If that actually happened, that just blows my fucking mind.  I really hope that isn't the case, but at this point it doesn't seem like anything else is too likely.

Either way, what a shame.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 01:47:50 PM
You've got to be kiddin' me, Que....

2K took down his thread that he started?!?!?!?

EDIT:
Well, I'll be damned...
You have got to be kiddin' me....
 (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35061)

Damn, you know something...
...Controversy always seems to follow Irrational, regardless -- whether it be EA taking the rights of System Shock from Irrational, the ad-placement issues in SWAT 4, the publisher pulling Irrational from making a new patch for Tribes: Vengeance, or any of the issues regarding Bioshock; it always seems to be something following them around...
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 06:06:47 PM
New episode of GFW Radio has a bunch of Bioshock talk. Its the second half of the show, and its spoilers galore so do not listen unless you've beat the game. I'm only going to listen to the first half and stop it before the bioshock stuff.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 09:25:33 PM
Another GSpot interview with Ken (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6177728.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0) where he talks about some of the recent happenings.  It's worth a read.

Also, nobody at Valve can play BioShock until they finish product (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=170914).  Gabe Newell wants to play it real bad, and all I can say is I hope he does and then learns why he hasn't been making the games he thinks he has.  Maybe BioShock will teach him what the word "story" means and why a "plot" is not merely a sequence of events revolving around clustered gameplay gimmicks.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 01:42:22 PM
Another GSpot interview with Ken (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6177728.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0) where he talks about some of the recent happenings.  It's worth a read.

Also, nobody at Valve can play BioShock until they finish product (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=170914).  Gabe Newell wants to play it real bad, and all I can say is I hope he does and then learns why he hasn't been making the games he thinks he has.  Maybe BioShock will teach him what the word "story" means and why a "plot" is not merely a sequence of events revolving around clustered gameplay gimmicks.

Maybe Gabe will learn how to actually COMPLETE a story and NOT leave you freakin' hanging every damn time, either.

It took HL2: Episode One to answer some of HL2's questions.

I'm sure it'll take HL2: Ep Two to explain some of the questions left unanswered from HL2: Ep One.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 02:57:30 PM
I finished my 2nd game.  "Easy" is the right option to tackle this if you care more about exploring and discovering than about fighting.  I wish I had approached it this way from the beginning.  I got to study and appreciate everything, from the art to the story, to the game's outstanding technology.  I also got to make the opposite moral choice, and it turned out to be the right one.  It's so unclear at the beginning what's right and what's wrong.

I'm well into my 3rd game, this time on the normal difficulty again.  The difference is, I've made it to the last level before the end boss without dying once.  The increase in challenge above "Easy" is very sharp, but now that I know what it takes to stay alive and in control, I can manage very well.  I also got to discover new ways of beating the crap out of splicers that are very satisfying.  If I play the game another time, I'm going to pursue more melee action.

I think a couple of trips through the game are essential, one in each of the moral orientations.  That also gives you a chance to pick up on things you may have missed before.  Beyond that, though, I think additional times won't yield nearly so much.  The claim from the advance press about every game being a different experience turns out to be hype.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 05:53:13 PM
Only to a degree.  I'm a few hours into my 2nd run (again on HARD, this time going for the evil ending), and things have definitely turned out differently in a lot of circumstances.  I'm just plain better at the game now, so obviously I'm kicking a lot more ass in general combat-wise, but I'm focusing on different methods this time around and am definitely feeling a difference.  Trying to sort of build different character builds is interesting.  I opened up a ton of options the first time around but found myself using certain combos of powers and weapons frequently.  So now I'm trying different combos and the game feels quite different on many levels.  There are lots of little unscripted happenings that keep things fresh, too, though that's obviously only to a degree.  I mean, you're still just running around killing things.  That's never going to change.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 08:55:09 PM
I think, yeah -- we can come up w/ all kinds of whacky character builds in Bioshock and we have at least two different endings and crazy ways to combo and kill enemies, so that's pretty sweet; especially since you can use the environment to your advantage majorly, too! Though, there's not a lot of different branching paths for the main quest and not many side quests to do in Bioshock, either.

Though, I really like the Research you can do in Bioshock, w/ the camera and all -- that stuff is great!! :) And the hacking skill is great, for turning turrets and security systems right back onto your enemies!

I don't think Bioshock world is as open to the player as the world of STALKER. Plus, the actual amount of pathways STALKER contains and number of different endings (there's SEVEN) is probably more than Bioshock's. Even the end boss-fight can be different, based on what route you take in STALKER -- you might have one, or you might not; depends on what road you take.

Bioshock's voice-acting, graphics, storyline depth, presentation, and level of polish is definitely beyond STALKER's -- that's for damn sure.

Regardless, I think both Bioshock and STALKER are great games.

I didn't finish my 2nd run-through of STALKER yet, but I did begin my 2nd run-through of Bioshock earlier today. Wo0t!!! I'm gonna try for the "good" path, this time!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 09:07:53 PM
Well, BioShock never intended to be anything like STALKER, really.  That one was meant to be more open, BioShock never was.  It's more or less linear, just with the added bonus of lots of little nooks to explore... and you can go back to places you've already been, if you feel like you rushed and missed something.  STALKER's design philosophy is very, very different.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 11:22:51 PM
Que, I was searching around for info on Atlas Shrugged when I ran into the IMDB page on a movie that was supposed to come out in '08, but now may be shelved.  The interesting bit, though, is this forum thread (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480239/board/nest/83117374) under it, talking about Bioshock in relation to the novel, and objectivism.  Thought you might like to read it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Thursday, August 30, 2007, 05:49:59 AM
(http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20070829.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, August 30, 2007, 07:25:48 AM
Heh, great comic.

And thanks for the link, Cobra, but I don't have an IMDB account, sadly.  No forums for me.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, August 30, 2007, 02:30:23 PM
Oh, yeah.  I remember that now.  Well, hang on a sec.

If this isn't cool, feel free to mod it away.  If you copy and waste it in the interim, that's your business.

Quote from: IMDB Forum on Atlas Shrugged
Board: Atlas Shrugged (2008)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
how much is this like the game Bioshock for Xbox 360? if its like that i
wanna read it, otherwise it might be boring. that sounded immature but
im 19 and i can take a decent book, but yeah is it like bioshock?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes!, where are the philosophical first person shooter games anyway?
Maybe they wouldn't sell at first, but think of possibilities! They
could pre-sell a book by releasing a movie AND an Xbox game at the same
time!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow... I bet you only ever read strategy guides and the Halo "books,"
right?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bioshock (PC or 360) is based on the philosophy of objectivism, and not
the book "Atlas Shrugged". Since Atlas Shrugged is highly steeped in
objectivism, it will seem very much related to it, but not stoyline
wise. Since the world is rendered in pure art deco level design, you
could say it has more to do with The Fountainhead. As far as reading
Atlas Shrugged goes, it's very much a pain in the butt. The story is a
great concept, but it's VERY dry with tons and tons of pointless
descriptions. It's still worth reading at least once in your life, but
you'll find that Rand's books on objectivism are far eaiser to read (and
more enjoyable) than her fiction. Her fiction tends to be to dry, and
written more like a stage play then a novel. Just my two cents, but you
did ask.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bioshock (PC or 360) is based on the philosophy of objectivism
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not a gamer, so have had to rely on third party info (checked game
website and wiki). The game authors do not (and should not) make any
claim of basing Bioshock on Objectivism, although they referred to the
concept of using both utopian (AS) and dystopian (1984) societies in
creating their product - a far cry from any philosophical endeavor.

Atlas Shrugged is heavily plotted, actually quite well written, but does
contain much direct philosophizing that can deter even the most
determined readers. Rand was, of course, trying to make a point, and
didn't mind belaboring her points to get them to sink in. The result was
still a highly engaging and entertaining novel.

Bioshock is, first and foremost, a fast paced, first person shooter game
totally unrelated to Atlas Shrugged, except by its programmer's
curiosity in the concept of utopianism (one device used in Rand's
tapestry).

jt

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm not a gamer, so have had to rely on third party info (checked game
website and wiki). The game authors do not (and should not) make any
claim of basing Bioshock on Objectivism" - jhtabbott

The entire game is based in an enviroment built on the precepts of
objectivism. You will simply have to play the game to see it. The game
storyline is not directly about objectivism. It's just part of the
backdrop used for atmosphere to immerse the players character into the
story. Do not get my previous comment confused with the thought that the
game story is based around objectivism. If you play it, you will see
just how the concept is intergrated (and masterfully so) into telling
the story. I can give no real details on it without giving spoilers and
as this isnt even a Bioshock forum, I'd rather not do that. Sufice it to
say, I'm very pleased with Rands influence over the games design. It
really helped make a standard action based FPS feel more like an
interactive story. Thats something that hasnt happened in games for a
number of years now.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodai,

I'll have to take your word for it. My impression was that in the
pre-story for Bioshock, an Objectivist style "utopian" society (that
later went awry) was imagined.

Your comments do make me curious about the game, but while I've got
nothing against video games (although I believe those that glorify
violence are a vast dis-service to generations), I rarely have time and
see some games can be 'virtually' addictive. If you'd care to share some
more detail about the game using IMDB's private messaging, spoilers
wouldn't bother me - mainly, I'm just curious about the Objectivist
backdrop. Thanks.

jt

------------------------------------------------------------------------
It should also be noted that the game features characters with the names
"Atlas" and "Fontaine"; a not-too-subtle reference to Atlas Shrugged and
The Fountainhead.

Both great reads, by the way. And I don't even particularly agree with
Ayn Rand's philosophies. But both books are truly amazing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donbar22,

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It should also be noted that the game features characters with the
    names "Atlas" and "Fontaine"; a not-too-subtle reference to Atlas
    Shrugged and The Fountainhead.

    Both great reads, by the way. And I don't even particularly agree
    with Ayn Rand's philosophies. But both books are truly amazing.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fascinating.

I understand one of the main characters is named Andrew Ryan which is
easily (& I'm sure intentionally parsed:
ANDrew RYAN
AYN Drew RAN
AYN RAND /...rew

Rand didn't worry too much about subtlety herself, and had particular
fun in naming her villians.

jt
       
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bioshock captures the feel of it so well, that as soon as I saw the
intro movie I instantly placed it as drawing from Atlas Shrugged -

"I am Alexander Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man
entitled to the sweat of his brow? No - says the man in Washington, it
belongs to the poor! No - says the man in the Vatican, it belongs to
God! No - says the man in Moscow, it belongs to everyone! I rejected
those answers, I chose something different - I chose Rapture. A place
where the artists would not be silenced by the censors, a place where
the scientists would not be bound by petty morality, a place where the
great would not be constrained by the small. And with the sweat of your
brow, it can be your city too."

And playing it has born it out, there are references everywhere.


- "Who is John Galt?" is referenced
- "Wyatt's Torch" is referenced
- The setting, "Rapture" is meant to be analogous to "Galt's Gulch".
- The games main antagonist espouses a lot of Objectivist philosophy
throughout the game, and is a brilliant electrical engineer much like Galt.
- and others I won't spoil.

That said - how is it NOT like Bioshock... well.

- It doesn't take place underwater.
- The Objectivists, the people like Alexander Ryan, are the heroes - in
fact Alexander Ryan is meant to be analogous to John Galt, the hero of
the "Atlas Shrugged".
- There is very little action and nothing that deals with the
genetic-modification subplot. Bioshock may reference Atlas Shrugged, but
they are VERY different genres. The plots are totally and completely
different.

Basically Atlas Shrugged is a bloated novel that is at least 300 pages
longer than it needs to be, and is very philosophy heavy. It concerns
captains of industry that decide to rebel against a US government that
is quickly becoming more and more socialist. It is very dry and concerns
a lot of discussion of economics.

That said, it does have some brilliant and inspiring passages the whole
way through, and you will be pointing at the novel at times going "OH! I
remember that from Bioshock!"
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, August 30, 2007, 04:29:49 PM
I think Idol would've bought this game...

This was one of the plan's for Bioshock's storyline, originally... (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48731)

Quote
Levine: BioShock Originally About Cult Deprogrammer Erasing Lesbian Tendencies
by Chris Remo Aug 30, 2007 4:49pm CST

Recently, posts spread around the internet detailing BioShock's former setting of an isolated tropical island inhabited by genetically experimental Nazis, demonstrating just how much a game can change from initial conception to final product. That's nothing on what the game was about before then, however: a cult deprogrammer hired by the parents of a woman involved in a lesbian relationship to kidnap the daughter and rewrite her brain to steer clear of what her parents perceive as deviant activity.

BioShock's creative director Ken Levine detailed the bizarre former premise to Shacknews during an extensive interview about BioShock, its world, and its fascinating and deranged denizens. The interview is packed with spoilers, however, so here are his remarks presented in a safe setting:

"There was another story before that about a cult deprogrammer," Levine explained. "I don't know if you know what a cult deprogrammer is; it's someone who goes to take people out of cults to deprogram them so they know longer believe in it. It's a weird thing, because they're basically kidnapping people."

The game's protagonist was one such fellow. "We had people who hired people to deprogram their daughter who had been in a lesbian relationship," he continued. "They kidnap her and reprogram her, and it was a really dark person, and that was the character that you were. It went through a lot of changes. That wasn't really fleshed out, we just needed something, and I said, 'Maybe I'll develop this, maybe I won't.'"

It may seem almost unbelievable that a game could undergo such drastic changes, but Levine emphasized that the development principle at Irrational Games (now 2K Boston and 2K Australia) has always put design first. "A lot of the game design elements stayed the same,
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 31, 2007, 01:38:37 PM

WARNING: Spoiler galore in here, if you ain't finished Bioshock yet. So, you've been warned.

10 things GamerDad HATES about Bioshock, FIVE things he loves about the game. (http://www.gamesanityblog.com/2007-08-31/10-things-i-hate-about-bioshock-five-i-love-two-goodies/#more-99)


Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, August 31, 2007, 03:34:17 PM

WARNING: Spoiler galore in here, if you ain't finished Bioshock yet. So, you've been warned.

10 things GamerDad HATES about Bioshock, FIVE things he loves about the game. (http://www.gamesanityblog.com/2007-08-31/10-things-i-hate-about-bioshock-five-i-love-two-goodies/#more-99)

After playing the game 3 full times, and just getting though Fort Frolic on "Hard" (I just had to, LOL) I have to say that I agree with just about everything he said.  Some things didn't bother me as much.  I didn't think the picture-taking mechanism and results were poorly done.  But I did think that it could have been much better.  I think it's the lack of stats that creates a problem, not just here, but across the board.  It caused at least in part some of the other gripes here.  There's no excuse for not knowing if you can carry something you invent until after you invent it.  There's no excuse for not knowing what plasmids and tonics are waiting in storage, and what tracks they belong to, when you're trying to decide on which slot to buy next with adam.  I often would run to some other machine, like a gene bank, so that I could assess the situation, then run back.  In some places, this is easy, but not always.

About big daddies and you,
(click to show/hide)

The problems with the special edition do not affect me, but I'm definitely glad I did not spring for it.  The unforgivable problems with activation and SecuROM in general never would have affected me, because they are deal breakers.  If I wanted the PC version of this game, I'd have waited for it, just like I waited for HL-2 (and got it, minus Steam).

I'm also on board with Mike Anderson about the positives, except #4, which to be frank, I fail to understand.  I don't like to be led by the nose, period.  But neither do I like being so lost that I have no clue what to do next.  Bioshock handles this well, and you can even turn off that quest arrow, plus never press 'X' at the map screen, if you really want to use your own wits and memory.

About the good ending,
(click to show/hide)

I'm going to have to track down the full music soundtrack.  I don't have the PC game to extract WAVs from, but I do have the 3 Ws.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 31, 2007, 06:59:02 PM
It's nice to know that I identified several of those tracks he posted there at the end.  It's gratifying to be part of something.

Anyway, I disagree with about half of his negatives.

1 - I liked the research system and felt no need for it to do anything above and beyond what it did.

2 - I HEARTILY disagree with the annoying little fucks, including this guy, who complain about the special edition.  There was absolutely nothing wrong with it.  People got what they voted for and then extra stuff was thrown in there for good measure.  Not to mention we also got the orchestral soundtrack AND the art book (which people didn't vote for) for free, i.e. free for people who didn't even pay any extra money for the special edition.  So anyone with the nerve to complain can go kiss a hornet's nest, IMO.

3 - I disagree that the storytelling got fuzzy.  I was just as riveted after some of the game's revelations toward the end as I was at the beginning.

4 - Yes, the last boss wasn't that great.  Even Ken admitted he wasn't happy with it.  Still, I was more annoyed with the fact that it didn't seem to fit the game thematically more than I was disappointed in its mechanics.

5 - Yes, it was weird to have the game just sort of cut off after the endings.  I was expecting credits and such as well.  This deserved something on par with Dawn of Mana's end/credits sequence, which was tailor-made for fans of the series.

6 - Don't care much.  I knew all the upgrades and research bonuses I had (they're mostly the same across the board except for the secret tonics you unlock, and why do you need to know that's where they came from?), and never once did I feel the need to review that information.  The only reason I'd want it is because I'm a completist and love to have checklists of all the crap I've gotten.  It's hard to know you've gotten every last thing without a list of some kind.  Still, this is mostly a non-issue to me.

7 - I never once bought out security systems with cash.  Talk about a giant waste.  I either killed them, hacked them, or used an autohack.  To each his own.  As for the U-Invent and Gene Bank interfaces, I have no complaints.  It would have been nice to know your item quantities at the invent station, but it isn't as though it's hard to just drop the interface and look.  A non-issue for me.

(click to show/hide)

9 - I agree with what he said about the activation and such.  The stuff is bad, but I think the way people are going on about it is ridiculous.  Most of the people don't even know what the fuck it is they're complaining about.  Ignorance is obnoxious.

10 - SecuROM sucks, yes.  However, I think it showing up as a virus is more the fault of the virus program than anything else.  Update your software, deal with it.  AVG didn't complain for me once until I'd beaten the game and started in on game #2, and then a quick update solved the problem.



So yeah, I think a couple complaints are just bogus, but most are just personal opinion.  Either way, they're all far from major and do very little, I would think, to truly take any significant joy away from the experience even if you find them a little annoying.  That's pretty good, I'd say.  It's just too bad the team didn't polish off a couple of the little problems that could easily have been spotted (such as the inability to see your U-Invent items while at the machine).  But I still say people need to shut the hell up about the special edition.  I've bought many, many, many CE, SE, and LEs over the years, and this is faaar from the worst.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's one of the better.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, August 31, 2007, 07:40:07 PM
It's nice to know that I identified several of those tracks he posted there at the end.  It's gratifying to be part of something.

Anyway, I disagree with about half of his negatives.

1 - I liked the research system and felt no need for it to do anything above and beyond what it did.
I also liked the Research system, as well.

I hope they do expand more on it, in a sequel.

Quote
2 - I HEARTILY disagree with the annoying little fucks, including this guy, who complain about the special edition.  There was absolutely nothing wrong with it.  People got what they voted for and then extra stuff was thrown in there for good measure.  Not to mention we also got the orchestral soundtrack AND the art book (which people didn't vote for) for free, i.e. free for people who didn't even pay any extra money for the special edition.  So anyone with the nerve to complain can go kiss a hornet's nest, IMO.
I dunno, but even though I didn't buy the Special Edition, I side w/ Que -- it's not like they put in-game content in the Special Ed, either.

Fans voted, they got what they wanted.

Plus, 2K Irrational released The Art Book and Soundtrack for free download!

Final Battle Spoilers (About The Vita-Chamber In The Final Battle)...
(click to show/hide)

More Spoilers On The Actual Final Battle (Mentions Who You Do Fight, In The End)....
(click to show/hide)

Quote
5 - Yes, it was weird to have the game just sort of cut off after the endings.  I was expecting credits and such as well.  This deserved something on par with Dawn of Mana's end/credits sequence, which was tailor-made for fans of the series.
I don't mind NOT having The Credits roll, actually. Though, if they do that -- shouldn't it say on the screen like "Fin" or "End" or "Developed by 2K/Irrational" or some shit before the game cuts back to the main menu???

Yes, it's nice to see their names and stuff roll after you beat the game, but it's not like you can't roll them at any time. You can ROLL the Credits from off the Game Menu at any time. So, after you beat the game, go roll the Credits, if you want -- just click Credits!!! :P I did.

Though, if they did force the credits on you, after you finish the game, you should be able to escape them at your leisure -- especially if you seen the Credits roll before and/or you've beat the game for the 800th time so that you just wanna not watch the Credits. Yeah, you know -- sometimes, I just don't wanna watch them credits roll.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 31, 2007, 10:37:07 PM
MyD, watch the spoilers, mate.  There are people here who haven't even picked the game up yet.  I edited your post, but do try to be more vigilant.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 01, 2007, 05:06:47 AM
MyD, watch the spoilers, mate.  There are people here who haven't even picked the game up yet.  I edited your post, but do try to be more vigilant.

Whoops!

Thanks Mate.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 01, 2007, 06:52:44 AM
Quote
6. Interface Annoyances #1 - lack of inventory / player status. This hits on so many things, such as the inability to see bonuses gained from the camera system or from ‘Power to the People’ stations, amount of ammo and various tonics / plasmids, and so on.
That would've been nice, but it's no big deal, honestly.

Plus, if you want to see the amount of ADAM and MONEY you have, hit ESC on your keyboard. ADAM's in the lower-right hand corner, while MONEY's in the lower-left.


Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, September 01, 2007, 01:29:29 PM
Buying out hacks is ridiculous.  Let's be honest here.  This never should have happened.  Even on Hard, the wallet ends up full after playing long enough.

It finally hit me that you can avoid the vita chambers entirely.  Since the game can be saved at any time, all you have to do is load up your most recent save when you die, just like any other FPS.  Save before big-daddy fights on Hard.  No more silly deaths without penalty.

(click to show/hide)

Those 10 things are niggles, really.  Some of them become more annoying after a few times through the game.  Still, they're not anything major, and I don't think they were meant as an indictment of the game, which really shines.

In reply to Que's comment on #8,
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, September 01, 2007, 01:45:01 PM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 01, 2007, 01:55:42 PM
In Regards To #8....
Lots of spoilers of The Near-End Game AND End-Game Sequences, so be warned...
(click to show/hide)

Still, regardless, this is one of the best games ever made.

Even the 2nd time through, now on HARD, I'm still loving it -- the combat itself and the combat system is just so freakin' great, to say the least. Keep them monsters comin', I'll mow them down!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Saturday, September 01, 2007, 02:35:15 PM
Read an article on Digg the other day about the differences in graphical settings and the difference between DX 9 and DX10.  Very little difference in those two cases, and what is different seems artificial.  Like, walking through the water in DX 9 leaves an ugly splash texture (you can see when walking backwards), while doing so in DX10 leaves a much nicer and more realistic fluid-dynamic trail.  I don't get it since that was something we saw in DX8 games.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Saturday, September 01, 2007, 05:23:31 PM
Maybe the shader in DX10 is more efficient and the devs used the texture in DX9 to use system resources for other graphical goodness?  Just a guess, I have no idea.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 06:54:45 AM
WARNING - the following is a discussion about intimate plot details and contains basically every spoiler it could possibly contain:

Street Lights as Fairgrounds: Strangely About Fate (http://streetlightsasfairgrounds.blogspot.com/2007/09/strangely-about-fate.html).

Well worth a read.  For all its efforts at trying to say something interesting (and it certainly does), I think what it comes down to is that no  matter how much your design document reads about player choice, you're still making a game, and you've still got limited resources to do it.  There's only so much that can be done with limited time, money, people, and technology, especially in a fast-paced market that refuses to stand still for you on any level whatsoever.  Because of this, BioShock simply could never be the exercise in player choice that it truly wanted to be, instead having to make several lackluster choices to necessitate its completeness, it's END as a story and a game.

Still, it's a great read.  I continue to assert that the game was just as fun after the big revelation as it was before it, but this is because I realize that a game can only provide choice and freedom to a certain degree, particularly where moral choices, character mindset, and overall outcome are concerned.

So yeah, give it a read and discuss.  We could use more game journalism like this.  Somebody should give the man a medal.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 02:15:57 PM
That was definitely a good read.  He analyzed the game to a degree I had not even considered.  I disagree about the up-front clarity of the moral choice.

(click to show/hide)

I found his commentary on art educational.  He makes some excellent points.  He uses Bioshock's approach up to a certain point as an example of how an interactive experience may fit a rigidly defined mold of what is art.

(click to show/hide)

Thanks for the link.  Never would have found it on my own.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 04:27:23 PM
I bought the game a couple of days ago. Haven't gotten around to it yet. Don't have a lot of time these days, but will find some for this baby.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 04:42:40 PM
Still, it's a great read.  I continue to assert that the game was just as fun after the big revelation as it was before it, but this is because I realize that a game can only provide choice and freedom to a certain degree, particularly where moral choices, character mindset, and overall outcome are concerned.
I agree -- b/c if there is to really be a sequel to Bioshock, the designers are gonna' have to basically "pick an ending" as the "True" Ending of the game, so they can set-up one exact point where Bioshock 2 begins -- especially since you have a "Good" And "Evil" ending here in Bioshock, in which I'm guessing the two endings will probably conflict w/ each other. So, they'll probably pick one ending from Bioshock 1 to actually begin Bioshock 2, if they want the same lead character to return.

Now, on another hand, Deus Ex 2 did a very interesting thing -- they decided that ALL THREE ENDINGS HAPPENED from Deus Ex 1, which is VERY interesting, indeed; since there's no real moral choices of a conflicting good and bad in any of the game's endings, by the player. All THREE endings are basically a "bunch of events that occurred," designed in such that none of them would conflict w/ each other. It wasn't a point where say if Ending A occurred, Ending B can't. It was Ending A, B, or C could all happen -- possibly, even altogether. So, Ion Storm never really had to decide "which ending occurred." They took them all. Quite genius, if you ask me.

Now, I come back to STALKER -- b/c for an action game, there's 7 different endings, in total. This one  game has 2 different branching directions you can go in, right near the very end of the game. There's a branching point, where the game shoots off in two directions, namely. It's up to you, to decide which way to go -- both, which are different and lead to a different set of endings.

STALKER Spoilers Of "The Two Branching Pathways"
(click to show/hide)

Now, depending on which road of the two roads you chose, if you did (or didn't do) certain particular quests in the game, AND what some stats of your character actually are, you can get a different ending.

After The Big Twist In Bioshock Spoilers....
(click to show/hide)

Quote
So yeah, give it a read and discuss.  We could use more game journalism like this.  Somebody should give the man a medal.
Hell of a read -- I agree w/ that.

Regardless of what people think of Bioshock, it's a great action game -- one of the best, w/ an outstanding story. That's what it is, from start to finish, more so than anything -- an action game w/ a hell of a story.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 07:17:05 PM
And while this doesn't so much relate to the current discussion, I'd just like to say that I'm having emotional difficulty with my 2nd run through the game.

Sort-of spoilers (nothing terribly specific, but you'll be able to infer something you might not want to):

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 07:36:25 PM
Que, it looks like Irrational has succeeded in making you think twice about your actions in the game and have really done their job -- and done it damn well.

(click to show/hide)

Maybe if I say the right words, you will do so....
(click to show/hide)



Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, September 05, 2007, 05:57:46 PM
I've played the game several times now and I could never follow the evil path a 2nd time.  It's only because I didn't know which was which that I did it my first time through. 

Not too much of a
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, September 06, 2007, 03:39:04 PM
**SPOILERS in link below**

Bwahahaha!!  (Ow, my sides hurt.) (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/1394-Zero-Punctuation-BioShock)  Not that I agree with the whole thing, but it's hilarious.

Edit:  Updated link.  And here is the FLV itself (http://selfserve300.download.videoegg.com/gid389/cid1389/1Q/QQ/11888090124V5P5j3NwrxOqDscEJXS_high.flv?showAd=true), in case you want to save it for posterity.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, September 06, 2007, 04:38:32 PM
Bwahahaha!!  (Ow, my sides hurt.) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IBkT0Oi97E)  Not that I agree with the whole thing, but it's hilarious.

Though, if you ain't finished the game yet, it does have SPOILERS in it.

That vid was fuckin' hilarious!!! :)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, September 06, 2007, 07:42:28 PM
That's bloody brilliant.  I agree with 90% of what he said, but in the end I think it all sort of works to the game's advantage.  I mean, there are things that could be improved, and I definitely have gripes and stuff, but... yeah, anyway.  Great stuff.  I'm working on a full review now which I should have available for people shortly.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, September 06, 2007, 07:56:03 PM
That's bloody brilliant.  I agree with 90% of what he said, but in the end I think it all sort of works to the game's advantage.  I mean, there are things that could be improved, and I definitely have gripes and stuff, but... yeah, anyway.  Great stuff.
Zero Punctuation has some funny reviews, to say the least -- from their Psychonauts review (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/1368-Zero-Punctuation-Psychonauts) to his take on The Darkness Demo. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=eWS9_nrKOPA)


Quote
I'm working on a full review now which I should have available for people shortly.
Ooooh, I can't wait!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, September 06, 2007, 09:36:40 PM
These aren't spoilers, they're just environmental images, but just in case you're the kind of person who's like, omfg I saw a tree, the game is ruined for me... spoilers tags are here for you.

Anyway, this is how good BioShock can look.  I'll be damned if it isn't the prettiest game I've ever seen at times.

(click to show/hide)

And how did I take those magical screens without my weapons and HUD getting in the way?  See the following nifty threads (PC users only, of course):

Console command list + links to other stuff (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10903).
Pseudo-console idea using .TXT files and the EXEC command (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11195).
An apparently working pseudo-console using the above concept (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11242).

I love this community.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, September 07, 2007, 02:08:44 PM
That's pretty much what it looks like on the 360, at 1280x720 anyway.  The window into it not as tall, as we all know from the FOV firestorm.  The sacrifice on the 360 is that textures can pop into objects after you're fairly close to them, no doubt the combination of limited memory and DVD seek times.  It certainly beats hitching, which happens almost never.  (I had horrendous hitching in one area once, so I quit, cleared the cache, then it was fine.)  One place that hitches every time is when I kill a security camera.  Definite room for improvement.  Overall, I'm very impressed with the graphics and performance.  With the frame rate unlocked, movement is perfectly fluid consistently.  I really, really wish I could take screen pics like those.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Friday, September 07, 2007, 06:26:30 PM
That's pretty much what it looks like on the 360, at 1280x720 anyway. 

Agreed - but I haven't seen any of the other glitch that a few people have encountered... yet.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, September 07, 2007, 07:56:24 PM
Glitch?  None here to speak of.  The ultra-hitchy spot only happened once, and then only after playing the game about 5 times.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Friday, September 07, 2007, 11:20:39 PM
Yeah I shouldn't have said glitch. I meant to say texture pop ups.... which at the time I didn't notice but just after pasting I played the game and saw some texture pop ups on a few faces.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 10:55:08 AM
The lack of AA hurts it a little bit.  I'm not one to generally use it because of my card, but a couple of the screens I took would have benefited quit a bit I think.

Also, apparently FRAPS doesn't do the best job taking JPG screens.  I'm noticing compression in a lot of these that I didn't see before.  Fugly.

EDIT - Pictures from the launch party (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/bioshockevent.html).  I'll be damned if I don't want to see the female thuggish splicer without all that makeup.  She looks like she'd be super cute under all the foam latex.

EDIT x2 - Huge list of commands with screens... lots of fun (http://www.paolofranchini.com/shshock/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=97).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 12:54:06 PM
I think there is AA actually.  I just went to my Nvidia control panel and forced AA for Bioshock.  To me, all the edges and whatnot look smoother after enabling it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 01:05:25 PM
Yeah, there just isn't any you can turn on within the game, apparently.  It's supposed to be possible for DX10 because it uses a DX10-specific kind of AA, but I guess that doesn't work for some reason.  Or something.  I don't know.  I haven't followed it closely because I'd never be able to run the game successfully with AA on.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 01:26:38 PM
I could really go for a Bioshock Expansion Pack, myself....

I know, Bioshock 2 is more likely to probably occur, but I really want some new Bioshock content like soon...



Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 02:28:24 PM
Quote from: Gamers with Jobs
"Andrew Ryan is Ayn Rand meets Howard Hughes," explains Levine.

From this piece (http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/32465).

I thought so, but it wasn't until I saw a biographical show on TV today, "Howard Hughes: The Real Aviator", that it became painfully obvious.  Heh.  Nothing new, since it came right from the horse's mouth.  I just hadn't heard it mentioned before.

(http://www.library.unlv.edu/hughes/headers/senate.jpg)
Howard Hughes, 1947
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 04:41:25 PM
The "Would you Kindly...?" Phrase Repetition
(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 05:01:22 PM
You lost me.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 05:06:04 PM
All Spoilers about "Would You Kindly...?"

You lost me.

(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 05:14:29 PM
Oh, come on.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 05:36:56 PM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 08:56:56 PM
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Saturday, September 08, 2007, 11:13:08 PM
**SPOILERS in link below**

Bwahahaha!!  (Ow, my sides hurt.) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IBkT0Oi97E)  Not that I agree with the whole thing, but it's hilarious.
Awww, they took it down!

Edit:  Nevermind, found it (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/1394-Zero-Punctuation-BioShock).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, September 09, 2007, 02:15:20 AM
Awww, they took it down!

Edit:  Nevermind, found it (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/1394-Zero-Punctuation-BioShock).
Haha again hilarious :P

I need this game now!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, September 09, 2007, 03:08:58 AM
And no, D, I doubt anyone would be daft enough to waste their fucking time counting such a thing, let alone admit to anyone else that they were stupid enough to do so.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Sunday, September 09, 2007, 04:20:07 AM
And no, D, I doubt anyone would be daft enough to waste their fucking time counting such a thing, let alone admit to anyone else that they were stupid enough to do so.

I bet D would. :-[
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Wednesday, September 12, 2007, 09:01:43 PM
Funny Bioshock review.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/1394-Zero-Punctuation-BioShock
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 12:01:15 AM
Funny Bioshock review.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/1394-Zero-Punctuation-BioShock
Uh that's the one Scottws posted :D
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 07:38:43 AM
You know, in retrospect, I thought I saw it already.  My friend linked it to me yesterday and thought it hilarious, but was probably too preoccupied with other things to notice that a) I saw it already, and b) it was posted here already.

Yay for work, study, and WoW taking up all my time.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 10:27:38 AM
Hehe no worries mate, it was amusing enough to warrant a second post :P
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 12:31:00 PM
I did finish Bioshock the other night.  I'm kind of torn how I felt.  It was a pretty unique game with unique ideas and the art design was really top-notch.

In terms of fun-factor though... I'm not so sure.  I basically forced myself to finish it.  It wasn't like HL2 where I was completely in awe and played it during any free time I had and finished it in 3 days.

I didn't dislike the game.  Don't get me wrong.  But I wasn't as engrossed in it as I felt like I was supposed to be based upon what I was seeing from some of the other posts on this board.

I was kind of curious about the plot...
(click to show/hide)

Does anyone else have any thoughts on that matter?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 08:17:14 PM
There are multiple problems with Rapture.  Is it even possible?  How deep is it?  The "skyline" makes it look like there as skyscrapers underwater.  Wouldn't the pressure make regularly shaped buildings impossible at depths over 1000 feet?  Even dismissing this, what would it take to build?  The logistics, and the transportation of huge volumes of materials would be staggering.  Then we're asked to believe that this all happened in the 1940s.  And why did Ryan choose this venue?  Don't tell me a guy this powerful couldn't have bought some good-sized remote island, and then set it up as an independent principality.  Imagine the economy in resources which could have then been invested in something more rewarding than keeping out the water.

I guess we're asked to ignore all the major showstoppers and accept that this place exists, in its crumbling state, to give us a fun place to play, shoot and use plasmids.   :)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 08:37:10 PM
In response to Scott:  Well, I certainly disagree as I got sick of HL2 long before the climax.  The general design philosophy made me cringe.  I knew as soon as I saw a new game mechanic that it was all I'd be doing for the next couple levels, so instead of it being "Oh dude, look at this cool new thing!" it became "Fuck, I'm going to have to do this 8 billion times before they decide to show me something else".  BioShock had some design issues here and there as well, but what I think really worked in its favor (at least for me) was that if something ever became tiresome, I just tried something else.  I mean, you could do that and pay the game that way.  And I didn't nearly exhaust all the different possibilities upon the end of my first game.

As for the plot...

(click to show/hide)

Anyway, you also said that you didn't like System Shock 2, right?  Hence it doesn't surprise me one bit that BioShock isn't quite your cup of tea.  BioShock is very different from Shock 2 in certain fundamental ways, but the two games share an awful lot of similarities just the same.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 09:02:22 PM
(click to show/hide)
I guess I'll have to accept Cobra's explanation... that it's just a fun, cool environment to play a videogame.

It's not that I didn't like System Shock 2.  I just didn't like the respawning and I could never figure out how to beat the first level.  I either got pummeled to death by the endless horde or got wasted by some robot.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 09:08:13 PM
I've hit an issue where I save my progress but when I load that saved game it didn't actually save my progress?? I've lost 2 hours on this thinking I had saved my progress but the game just isn't updating the saved file?! Has anyone heard about this or encountered it? I googled it and didn't find much other than one post with no replied. I'm apply the update hope it fixes the problem  :(
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 09:12:42 PM
Nope, I never had any trouble with the game really.  Well, it did crash once within my first hour of playing.  I thought maybe it was taxing my videocard and overheating (it is pretty hot where my computer is right now).  But I spent spells in the game for much longer than that since, in hotter air.  So yeah, the one crash was the only problem I had.  It didn't even so much as stutter.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 09:49:25 PM
I've hit an issue where I save my progress but when I load that saved game it didn't actually save my progress?? I've lost 2 hours on this thinking I had saved my progress but the game just isn't updating the saved file?! Has anyone heard about this or encountered it? I googled it and didn't find much other than one post with no replied. I'm apply the update hope it fixes the problem  :(

Did you get disconnected from Live?  If you do, the date on your system might revert to 2005 or something, placing your saves at the bottom of the list, so when you "continue", you're really going back to an old save.  Set the date/time on your system while disconnected from Live.  That seems to solve the problem.

Edit:  Oh, and if I'm right, you should be able to load up the saves with the old dates.  (Bottom of the list.)  I'm also assuming you're playing on the 360, of course.  For PC, I wouldn't know.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 10:41:01 PM
Scott, the thing about SS2 is that, while the difficulty was certainly higher, there was no random respawning of enemies.  This actually caused some heated debate.  I liked it, a lot of others did not.  Anyway, once you clear an area, it stays clear.  You should be able to chip away at the difficulties until they're gone for good.

I've played Bioshock multiple times now.  It has become some sort of obsession.  There's a lot of richness in this universe, and I keep finding new things, as well as getting the whole picture more clear in my mind.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 10:47:41 PM
Yeah, I know all about the middle part of your spoiler.  I did get that much.  Also the talk about Fontaine himself.  I guess I need to read up on Objectivism to really understand what was going on in the game.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, September 13, 2007, 10:56:37 PM
Scott, you may find this at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_%28Ayn_Rand%29) useful.  You can go from there as far into it as you care to.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Friday, September 14, 2007, 12:54:54 AM
Did you get disconnected from Live?  If you do, the date on your system might revert to 2005 or something, placing your saves at the bottom of the list, so when you "continue", you're really going back to an old save.  Set the date/time on your system while disconnected from Live.  That seems to solve the problem.

Edit:  Oh, and if I'm right, you should be able to load up the saves with the old dates.  (Bottom of the list.)  I'm also assuming you're playing on the 360, of course.  For PC, I wouldn't know.

Oh sweet, I put it back on Live to get the Sonic game and usre enough the saved games were there at the bottom of the list. Cheers man.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, September 14, 2007, 07:22:32 AM
Just remember that Objectivism isn't communism, it's basically the polar opposite to the nth degree.  It's *supposed* to be about earning your own way and keeping what you earn, giving nothing to anyone but yourself for the simple reason that life works better when everyone can take pride in what they do and can motivate their own progression through the reward that naturally comes from hard work and talent.  Maybe a little more prior knowledge on the subject would be more helpful than I thought initially, I dunno'.

Oh, and as for Rapture itself... yeah, I think most of us had to deal with the fact that it's rather conceptually impossible from the start.  It's just a neat place to set a videogame, and while a little farfetched, I don't see it as any worse than crazy space stations or the underworld or whatever other fantasy setting you might come across.  At least it's pretty and has enough inspiration behind it to generate discussions about social ideologies, which is more than you can say for many games.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, September 14, 2007, 01:36:58 PM
Oh, and as for Rapture itself... yeah, I think most of us had to deal with the fact that it's rather conceptually impossible from the start.


Andrew Ryan has a quote that he says that he set out to build to impossible. If I recall, it's in one of his audios or in one of the load screen quotes -- I can't recll.

Quote
It's just a neat place to set a videogame, and while a little farfetched, I don't see it as any worse than crazy space stations or the underworld or whatever other fantasy setting you might come across.
I agree -- Bioshock wasn't out to re-create the real world, to some degree. It's pure fantasy.

Quote
At least it's pretty and has enough inspiration behind it to generate discussions about social ideologies, which is more than you can say for many games.
Agreed.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, September 14, 2007, 02:40:07 PM
Oh sweet, I put it back on Live to get the Sonic game and usre enough the saved games were there at the bottom of the list. Cheers man.

You know, they could have avoided this problem so easily.  All they needed was a unique id for the current game and a timestamp of how long the game has been played, in the save files.  That way "continue" always means "continue" regardless of any external timekeeping.  Here these guys did so much godlike programming, and they go ahead and miss such a basic little thing.  LOL

Just remember that Objectivism isn't communism, it's basically the polar opposite to the nth degree.  It's *supposed* to be about earning your own way and keeping what you earn, giving nothing to anyone but yourself for the simple reason that life works better when everyone can take pride in what they do and can motivate their own progression through the reward that naturally comes from hard work and talent.  Maybe a little more prior knowledge on the subject would be more helpful than I thought initially, I dunno'.

Oh, and as for Rapture itself... yeah, I think most of us had to deal with the fact that it's rather conceptually impossible from the start.  It's just a neat place to set a videogame, and while a little farfetched, I don't see it as any worse than crazy space stations or the underworld or whatever other fantasy setting you might come across.  At least it's pretty and has enough inspiration behind it to generate discussions about social ideologies, which is more than you can say for many games.

I know they are polar opposites.  Maybe my comment about communism having like problems gave the impression that I didn't.  Any system which relies on a few people rising way above the rest is subject to inevitable corruption and eventual downfall, because there is nothing innately superior about those people.  They have the same human tendencies and frailties as other normal humans.  So when they act irrationally and out of unbridled self interest, to the detriment of whatever gets in the way, they end up mucking things up beyond repair.  Communism, in practice so far, has the same problem.  Only a few people are in power; everyone else is a peasant.  This is the incurable flaw in both objectivism and communism.  A system of checks and balances is needed, which even the most powerful cannot circumvent.  Once they figure out methods of circumvention, as in the USA right now, the future of a formerly great and free society is in question.

The thing about Rapture is that it's set in a history period with which we're all familiar (and at least one of us personally familiar, barely).  When you have some space station off into the future, it's easy to assume that the technology somehow developed to cover the premise.  It's not so easy with Rapture, not that I've dwelled too much on this, or allowed it to ruin my immersion in the game world.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Friday, September 14, 2007, 03:48:36 PM
One thing I found interesting about Rapture was the time period and the architectural style.  It uses art deco, which was a 20's to 30's thing.  Rapture wasn't founded until the 40's, wasn't it?

Edit: That's not a complaint, just an observation.  Like I said, I loved the art design and the art deco styling of the game.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, September 14, 2007, 08:07:01 PM
You're right, actually.  I can't remember the exact justification for this.  I think some of the architectural stuff was supposed to be inspired by Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, but other than that I just have a vague recollection of Ken Levine talking about some of what he thought Ryan's inspirations were and why the art deco thing fit his idealism in some way.  There was logic behind it, I just can't remember.

And Cobra, sorry... I never quote things and it always ends up being my downfall.  My comments about Communism were more directed to Scott's earlier thoughts on the "great chain" and his confusion about the ideology.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, September 16, 2007, 07:53:39 PM
CliffyB of Epic LOVES Bioshock. (http://www.cliffyb.com/)

Quote from: CliffyB
Bioshock is hands down my game of the year. That's right, I said it. I was looking forward to coming home from work and firing this bad boy up throughout the entire experience. Last time that happened was RE4 and God of War(s.) I'm not just saying this because it uses our technology or because I'm friends with some of the team members, no, it is in fact a phenomenal blend of well paced horror, narrative, action and meta RPG moments.
I think so far, it's b/t Bioshock and STALKER for me, for GOTY.....so far....

Quote from: CliffyB
The best part about the game is the fact that the majority of the narrative is what I like to call, simply "passive narrative." There's a recording on a desk, there's a painting or a picture on the wall - you want to ignore them as a gamer, fine, you won't get any story. But you know what? Few people would ignore them and if a person is that determined to undermine the coolness of their interactive experience they're going to find a way. Hell you can walk out of a movie or eject a DVD if you don't want to find out what happens in a film.
Yeah, so if you just want to kill stuff and ignore the narrative, go right ahead.....which is sweet.

Though, given the famous catch phrase.....
(click to show/hide)



Bioshock spoiler from CliffyB, pertaining to the "famous" catch phrase in Bioshock....
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Monday, September 24, 2007, 02:09:07 AM
Hey all, for anyone who got Bioshock for PC how bad is the activation?

From what I'm hearing so far, you have a limited number of times to actually install the game. When you install the game and activate you use an "install token" and to retrieve the token you have to properly uninstall the game. You have a total of 5 tokens I think (used to be 2 until people complained). At least that's how I understood it.

I mean what if my system crashes and I have to format, or for whatever reason I am unable to properly uninstall the game to retrieve the token, then what I lose it?! WTF?!!

Ok, now this is a major deterrent for me. I'm still seriously considering buying the game, but if they're gonna limit me on how often I install the game I'm just gonna pass.

Seriously, if this is their idea of preventing piracy it's BS. Because this discourages me from buying the product. Why penalize the customers?? They're making buying and owning games more difficult and infuriating!

So, back to my original query, is it really that bad for the Bioshock activation?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, September 24, 2007, 02:53:25 AM
No you just e-mail them with a pic of your game with the cd key and they replenish your token. Many have claimed that it has been done in 24 hours.

Personally I'd say go for it. If you lose a 'token',  just e-mail them while you have the use of the other four 'tokens'.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Monday, September 24, 2007, 03:08:22 AM
No you just e-mail them with a pic of your game with the cd key and they replenish your token. Many have claimed that it has been done in 24 hours.

Personally I'd say go for it. If you lose a 'token',  just e-mail them while you have the use of the other four 'tokens'.


That's still retarded though. It's not even a multiplayer game! (or is it?)

There seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel:

BioShock activation will be removed in the future (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/08/26/bioshock_activation_will_be_removed/1)

Quote
Ken Levine, Lead Designer for BioShock, has revealed that the game’s copy protection will be removed at some point in the future.

“We will unset the online activation at some point in the future – we’re not talking about when,” said Levine, in an interview with Joystiq. “This activation is for the early period of the game when it’s really hot and there are people really trying to find ways to play the game without buying it.”

Later in the interview, he admitted that 2K had made a mistake with the number of installations allowed and that the number of installs will be increased. “Basically the copy protection, everything about how it works is exactly what you'll see in other titles like Splinter Cell: Double Agent, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Tomb Raider: Anniversary, Command & Conquer 3, and Harry Potter.

“The only thing we have is online activation now. But that just does a check with a server and validates the installation. Right now we have a set number of installs and, frankly, it’s too low. We screwed up. We analysed where we were and we’ll up the number of installs.”

He understands gamers’ frustrations when they were unable to activate their legitimate copies of the game. “People can't activate their key, I dig that people are pissed off, and I understand it. Here we are day one of the European launch and day four of the American and we're working every single day working on these issues. I believe people deserve to play the game.”

Levine also acknowledged that there were concerns about the anti-piracy measures 2K Games had taken, but reassured gamers that “there’s nothing wacky going on there, at some point we’ll move back from online activation. If people want to play BioShock ten years from now, they’ll be able to play it. We have a commitment from 2K that that is going to happen and we'll hold them to that commitment and they're serious about it, we'll make that happen.”
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, September 24, 2007, 07:18:58 AM
Ken said from the beginning that they'll remove it eventually, but he said they couldn't say when.  And it really isn't that bad.  Do you *really* think you're going to use up all those installs anyway?  Logically, most people won't come anywhere near it.  I've played the fuck out of the game and have used up a whopping one install.  And if you're the unluckiest son of a bitch in the world and your system crashes 5 times and leaves you out in the cold, the support people are supposedly fine with giving you extra unlocks.  I haven't even heard of them requiring anything other than a phone call.  What Pug said I think was a special circumstance, at least as I recall.  Wasn't that what a PCG guy had to do?  But I think most people that have actually needed to get the keys refreshed or whatever just called them.

Anyway, it isn't that bad.  Yes it sucks as a method of protection, and ideologically I hate it, but like most ideological issues, it really isn't bad.  This is no Steam.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Monday, September 24, 2007, 08:00:02 AM
Ken said from the beginning that they'll remove it eventually, but he said they couldn't say when.  And it really isn't that bad.  Do you *really* think you're going to use up all those installs anyway?  Logically, most people won't come anywhere near it.  I've played the fuck out of the game and have used up a whopping one install.  And if you're the unluckiest son of a bitch in the world and your system crashes 5 times and leaves you out in the cold, the support people are supposedly fine with giving you extra unlocks.  I haven't even heard of them requiring anything other than a phone call.  What Pug said I think was a special circumstance, at least as I recall.  Wasn't that what a PCG guy had to do?  But I think most people that have actually needed to get the keys refreshed or whatever just called them.

Anyway, it isn't that bad.  Yes it sucks as a method of protection, and ideologically I hate it, but like most ideological issues, it really isn't bad.  This is no Steam.
It's true that it's not as 'severe' as Steam. Honestly more than anything else I was just worried that this would somewhere along the way become a standard; eventually becoming something like "retail allows 2 installs, while the collector's edition allows 5 installs!" or some such gimmicks.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Monday, September 24, 2007, 08:05:04 AM
I'm just worried that it's going to turn into something like "This game is good for 2 years.  If you want to play it after that you have to buy it again."

I'm not too worried about using up the install tokens in Bioshock's case, though I don't like the practice.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, September 24, 2007, 08:58:28 AM
That's still retarded though. It's not even a multiplayer game! (or is it?)

There seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel:

BioShock activation will be removed in the future (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/08/26/bioshock_activation_will_be_removed/1)


I know it is retarded, but the PC gaming world is in a really retarded position at the moment. During a recent survey iD found out that 1/3rd of the people who played Doom 3 hadn't bought it legally. Basically three times as many people had played the game and enjoyed it as the sales figures reflected.

Obviously this doesn't mean that those very people would have bought Doom III, but surely a significant bulk would have ended up purchasing had their been no sure way of enjoying the return to the Doom franchise?

I know its retarded, and it really really sucks, but personally, I am for it.

I buy most of my games, and sometimes it really hurts to see people on Paksitani forums boasting about paying a dollar for the same game that I paid 30-45 for.

Is the Bioshock copy protection shackle working? I'd say it is. There is still no working crack for the game, and from the hints given by the developers, the game is selling extremely well on the PC.

Just look at the sales on eBay. The CEs are going for well over $120. I was trying to score one, but am not willing to shell that much on a CE.

Quote
“We will unset the online activation at some point in the future – we’re not talking about when,” said Levine, in an interview with Joystiq. “This activation is for the early period of the game when it’s really hot and there are people really trying to find ways to play the game without buying it.”

Yea in six months!

Personally I am happy with this so far.

Quote
I haven't even heard of them requiring anything other than a phone call.  What Pug said I think was a special circumstance, at least as I recall.  Wasn't that what a PCG guy had to do?

I read some guy on the forum who said he e-mailed them with a pic and it took a day. But the point is that even if you have to wait a bit to get one token back, don't you still have the rest.

I know it can be inconvenient, but I think that if it stops piracy, then maybe its OK.

Quote
I'm just worried that it's going to turn into something like "This game is good for 2 years.  If you want to play it after that you have to buy it again."

That would be worrisome, but I doubt it will happen. I am sure that in a year's time the game will not require activation. Once the game drops from full price.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, September 24, 2007, 01:57:13 PM
My understanding is that the activation is fully cracked already, and has been for some weeks now.  I can't verify that personally.

It's not that I don't understand the rampant piracy problem on PCs.  I do.  But I have problems with the approach the industry has taken to tackle it. I've been vocal before about the grossly inflated loss figures they quote.  There isn't enough money in the hands of the people who play games without buying them to justify anywhere near those numbers.  The fact is that, in lieu of piracy, most of them would do without, or resort to full-blown attempted theft (e.g., shoplifting).  No justification, but without honesty, there is no moral high ground for anyone.

My other main objection is that the anti-piracy methods the industry has come up with lately do a hell of a lot more to alienate honest buyers than to discourage pirates.  If you are going to end up throwing the baby out with the bath water, you may as well let him go dirty to begin with.  They may yet strike a good balance, or so I hope.

On a less contentious note, I found this article (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/bioshock/news.html?sid=6179423&om_act=convert&om_clk=newlyadded&tag=newlyadded;title;1) at Gamespot a couple of days ago.  It's another conversation with Ken Levine, now that Bioshock has been out for a while.  Interesting read, although nothing shocking (bio or otherwise).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Monday, September 24, 2007, 02:03:17 PM
I see your point Pug, however I maintain that if devs insist on making simply owning a game difficult it's going to be a major deterrent; possibly leading to the death of the PC as a major gaming platform (or at least fainting, I don't think it can ever "die").

Now that I'm assured that the activation will be removed at some point in the future I will go out and buy Bioshock. I think the only place that ahs it here is the Virgin Megastore.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, September 24, 2007, 02:18:59 PM
It's true that it's not as 'severe' as Steam. Honestly more than anything else I was just worried that this would somewhere along the way become a standard; eventually becoming something like "retail allows 2 installs, while the collector's edition allows 5 installs!" or some such gimmicks.
First day, I put my code in to activate it. Didn't work. Three tries w/ the same code, then it finally went through -- all w/ the same code, too. So, yeah -- I'm guessin' everyone was hittin' the server at once, trying to activate it. That was annoying as hell.

It is very annoying, that the original number of installs was 2 installs; it was ridiculous and silly. Especially if you lose an install b/c your PC crashes on some bullshit.

5 installs makes more sense. Some people have multiple machines -- some will install it on their PC desktop and their laptop. Maybe even transfer their save files b/t PC's, so they can play it at home and on the go.

To gain an install number back and get a "refund" b/c you "uninstall the game", I have to uninstall it WHILE I'm ONLINE, too. Annoying -- but at least I can get a "Refund" on my number of installs by uninstalling.

I just hope that they live up to the promise to remove the "activation" when sales drop in the game.

I just hope Activation don't get any worse....Two Worlds has some activation procedures, as well....And it's annoying, as well...I'll put it in one of my Two Worlds threads....They do theirs a little different....it doesn't do install number checks, it checks for number of hardware changes...
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Monday, September 24, 2007, 11:50:14 PM
First day, I put my code in to activate it. Didn't work. Three tries w/ the same code, then it finally went through -- all w/ the same code, too. So, yeah -- I'm guessin' everyone was hittin' the server at once, trying to activate it. That was annoying as hell.

It is very annoying, that the original number of installs was 2 installs; it was ridiculous and silly. Especially if you lose an install b/c your PC crashes on some bullshit.

5 installs makes more sense. Some people have multiple machines -- some will install it on their PC desktop and their laptop. Maybe even transfer their save files b/t PC's, so they can play it at home and on the go.

To gain an install number back and get a "refund" b/c you "uninstall the game", I have to uninstall it WHILE I'm ONLINE, too. Annoying -- but at least I can get a "Refund" on my number of installs by uninstalling.

I just hope that they live up to the promise to remove the "activation" when sales drop in the game.

I just hope Activation don't get any worse....Two Worlds has some activation procedures, as well....And it's annoying, as well...I'll put it in one of my Two Worlds threads....They do theirs a little different....it doesn't do install number checks, it checks for number of hardware changes...

Ah so kinda like how Windows XP started out?

Now all I gotta do is pick up Bioshock, so it's only a matter of time. I'm curious about upcoming patches.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Tuesday, September 25, 2007, 12:07:39 AM
Well I was looking on the pirated bay and apparently it is a 'bitch to crack' but has been done. Looks like it is a fairly tedious process, but has been done.  :(

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Friday, September 28, 2007, 12:27:12 AM
Picked up Bioshock! Beautiful game.

Though I have a little problem.

Before I install any game I normally defrag and restart. I completed my ritual procedure, I installed the game, activated, and launched right into it. Played till I beat the first boss. I thought I'd ration my gameplay time and I quit.

I decided to restart just to refresh the system. Now the system won't load into Windows. I get the Windows loading screen, but right after it just goes to a black screen with the mouse cursor. Nothing happens. No logon, nothing.

Tried researching it online but the only apparent solution is a format and reinstall of Windows. Te shitty part is I can't backup any of my files on C. The stupid Recovery Console won't let me copy anything that's not in C:\Windows directory. The only thing I'm concerned about is a few of my game saves. The only reason those are on C: is because the games now all save in "My Documents" instead of their respective folders.

Anyway I'm gonna go wipe it clean now.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Friday, September 28, 2007, 02:56:40 AM
Forgot to ask! How exactly do I go about retrieving the install token for BioShock? I'm asking because 2KGames doesn't seem to have a support site for BioShock (PC), only Xbox 360.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, September 28, 2007, 02:59:48 AM
This is incredible... of all the times your system had to crash, why now?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Friday, September 28, 2007, 03:40:25 AM
This is incredible... of all the times your system had to crash, why now?
No idea man. As far as I can discern it's not a hardware problem. Safe mode won't even work. Apparently the only solution available (according to tech forums) is format and reinstall Windows.

Anyway, I just re-setup the system and the first thing I ddi was install BioShock. I rebooted and everything seems to be working fine. The crap part is I lost all my savegames and all my bookmarks. I'm more miffed about my bookmarks because I basically had a whole library. I don't mind playing through Oblivion again, and NWN2 I maya s well wait for the expansion before I get back into it.

Hehe this was a pretty good test of patience and discipline while I'm fasting :P I didn't cuss once! ;D
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, September 28, 2007, 01:35:06 PM
Ah so kinda like how Windows XP started out?

Basically, yeah.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 29, 2007, 04:02:52 PM
New WHQL NVidia drivers 163.71 for Win XP users -- basically, meant for Bioshock, Quake Wars: ET, HG: London, Crysis, and World In Conflict. (http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_163.71.html)

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Saturday, September 29, 2007, 10:58:04 PM
New WHQL NVidia drivers 163.71 for Win XP users -- basically, meant for Bioshock, Quake Wars: ET, HG: London, Crysis, and World In Conflict. (http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_163.71.html)


Sweet I've been using 163.71 beta, so I'm sure the WHQL will fix a few things.

By the way, for some reason the beta driver disabled all 16:10 ratio screen resolutions except the native 1680x1050 for all my games! The only resolutions I can use are all the 4:3 (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x960) the one 5:4 (1280x1024), a 16:9 (1600x900), and my monitor's native 16:10 (1680x1050). Whereas before I would usually play at 1280x800 (just for the few extra frames I can squeeze out). So I hope the WHQL driver will have amended that.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, September 29, 2007, 11:04:51 PM
I love how they mention games that ain't even out yet are supported by this driver; heh! I think that's the first time I've seen that!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Saturday, September 29, 2007, 11:15:17 PM
I love how they mention games that ain't even out yet are supported by this driver; heh! I think that's the first time I've seen that!

It's good to show the initiative. I've seen it before though, it's just much more common since DirectX 10 was announced.

I'm actually being tempted to switch to Vista just to take advantage of DX10, but my voice of reason tells me to wait till Service Pack 1 at least.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, September 29, 2007, 11:25:12 PM
Xessive do what I did! Dual boot. It is a very simple process. :)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, September 30, 2007, 03:04:43 AM
Xessive do what I did! Dual boot. It is a very simple process. :)
I'm contemplating it, but I'd rather just have one OS. Either way I'm just gonna wait until SP1 before I even consider Vista.

By the way, according to some comparison benchmarks I saw, nVidia and ATi have improved their Vista drivers so much in the last 7 months that the performance is currently on par with XP.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, September 30, 2007, 12:31:36 PM
I have a two games installed on Vista, and they run faster and more stable than on XP. Well the main reason I had to install them on Vista was that they were giving me headaches on XP.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, September 30, 2007, 12:58:42 PM
I have a two games installed on Vista, and they run faster and more stable than on XP. Well the main reason I had to install them on Vista was that they were giving me headaches on XP.
Which games, might I ask?

Hehe man, now that I've played a good chunk of BioShock I can totally see Warren Spector losing his frickin' mind! hahaha "What?! This is exactly what I was trying to do with DX:IW!!" It is a major slap in DX:IW's face :D
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, September 30, 2007, 02:17:48 PM
Which games, might I ask?

Hehe man, now that I've played a good chunk of BioShock I can totally see Warren Spector losing his frickin' mind! hahaha "What?! This is exactly what I was trying to do with DX:IW!!" It is a major slap in DX:IW's face :D

If anything, Spector w/ Deus Ex: IW was trying to be like graphically-pimped out version of Irrational's System Shock 2...
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, September 30, 2007, 02:22:10 PM
Xessive they are both sports titles. :P
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, September 30, 2007, 02:23:48 PM
Xessive they are both sports titles. :P

Did EA make them? :P
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, September 30, 2007, 11:04:51 PM
Xessive they are both sports titles. :P
Haha FIFA 07 and FIFA 08? :P Actually wait.. I'm betting one of them's gotta be a Brian Lara game! hehe I know how you love cricket! Git yer shin-guards on!

YEah, that's true MyD. I'm just picturing him going mad trying to rediscover the formula for a successful System Shock genre game. Speaking of which, what is the official name of the genre?

Back to BioShock: I've just reached Fort Frolic.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, October 01, 2007, 05:09:06 AM
Xessive one is Top Spin 2 and the other is Virtua Tennis 3.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, October 01, 2007, 05:39:28 AM
YEah, that's true MyD. I'm just picturing him going mad trying to rediscover the formula for a successful System Shock genre game. Speaking of which, what is the official name of the genre?
All of those games have FPS elements (obviously), action elements (melee combat and shooting), and RPG (building up your character's abilities/skills) elements....

I would consider Deus Ex, Bioshock, and System Shock 2 to be First Person Shooter/RPG; defiintely a genre-bender.

Though, since you probably often will use Biomods (Skills) in Deus Ex, Plamids (Magic) in Bioshock, and Psych Abilities (Magic) in System Shock 2, you ain't always "First Person Shooting."

Hmmm...Maybe it should be considered First Person Action/RPG. :P
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, October 01, 2007, 06:35:18 AM
No, it shouldn't.  These games are FPS games with some interesting choices regarding your character's improvement.  They don't feel like RPGs in any way, even if there are elements commonly associated with those kinds of games.  When it comes down to it, 90% of the "RPG" skills just come down to more ways to kill people, barring a few which have more subtle uses that affect the gameplay (reading the email things in Deus Ex, hacking your way to extra goodies and certain areas in System Shock, etc.).  BioShock is in no way an RPG of any kind.  It's 100% FPS with some added elements.  SS or DE you could make better arguments for, but I still wouldn't call them FPS/RPGs.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Monday, October 01, 2007, 12:10:07 PM
Xessive one is Top Spin 2 and the other is Virtua Tennis 3.
You tennis freak you! Hehe actually I'm playing VT3 too ;D It's like the most elaborate version of Pong ever! :P

EDIT:
In response to the FPS/RPG discussion:

I'd argue that all of these games are pretty much Role-playing games, given that you play the role of a character in each. So in a philosophical sense they're all RPG's with FPS gameplay elements added in. Equally I'd say Monkey Island or Syberia are RPG's with mysteries and puzzles. Of course, I could just be taking the term Role-playing game too literally, but that's just how I distinguish "dice/pen&paper" originating games from others.

That's also why I'm really looking forward to The Witcher! From what I understand so far it will take the P&P style and mix in some action gameplay elements.

Back to BioShock: Lovin' it. I consider it an interactive action-thriller novel!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, October 01, 2007, 12:31:57 PM
You tennis freak you! Hehe actually I'm playing VT3 too ;D It's like the most elaborate version of Pong ever! :P

EDIT:
In response to the FPS/RPG discussion:

I'd argue that all of these games are pretty much Role-playing games, given that you play the role of a character in each. So in a philosophical sense they're all RPG's with FPS gameplay elements added in. Equally I'd say Monkey Island or Syberia are RPG's with mysteries and puzzles. Of course, I could just be taking the term Role-playing game too literally, but that's just how I distinguish "dice/pen&paper" originating games from others.

IMHO, RPG's have TWO major elements:

1. You, as the Player, take on the role of a character (which you might create at the beginning of the game, if it ain't determined to you already by the developers), and you are given choices throughout the game, which can ultimately change the outcome of both main events/quests AND side events/quests.

2. The continuous improving and upgrading of your character's skills, abilities, and base-stats, during the entire course of the game.

Quote
That's also why I'm really looking forward to The Witcher! From what I understand so far it will take the P&P style and mix in some action gameplay elements.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to The Witcher.

Quote
Back to BioShock: Lovin' it. I consider it an interactive action-thriller novel!
Bioshock's flat-out awesome.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, October 01, 2007, 12:38:23 PM
Well Deus Ex was listed under the RPG genre at IGN, Gamespot and PCG. It was a hybrid, but there was stat manipulation while the storyline gave a lot of freedom of  choice. Initially it felt less like an RPG, but as the game went on the game felt more like an RPG than a shooter.

System Shock was also listed under RPG at PCG and ther online publications. Again I guess it is due to the fact that you had skill points to invest in etc. The developers often referred to both System Shock and Deus Ex as RPGs.

Every critic calls Bioshock 100% a shooter tough.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Monday, October 01, 2007, 01:56:13 PM
Every critic calls Bioshock 100% a shooter tough.
Hehe I think the lack of an inventory is the main reason :P It's true that it is quite action-packed though!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, October 01, 2007, 03:51:39 PM
We've talked about this before, somewhere.  What is an RPG?  MysterD took a crack at it.  I would definitely call SS 1 and 2 first-person real-time RPGs.  I would not call Bioshock one.  I know there will be those who disagree in all 3 cases.

Fort Frolic is a fun level, Xessive.  Welcome to an evening with Sander Cohen.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, October 11, 2007, 08:52:54 PM
For anybody that would like to help on the music front, here's the list of filenames that need to be identified (a few are duplicates) and the list of what's identified that's currently standing over at the Cult site.

What's identified:

    * Nutcracker (Waltz of the Flowers) - Peter Illyich Tchaikovsky
    * The Party's Over - Judy Holliday
    * Please Be Kind - Frank Sinatra
    * Beyond the Sea - Bobby Darin
    * Papa Loves Mambo - Perry Como
    * Jitterbug Waltz - Fats Waller
    * Night and Day - Cole Porter
    * It Had to Be You - (Priscilla Lane, Danny Thomas, or Dolley Wilson?)
    * The Best Things in Life are Free - Buddy De Sylva/Lew Brown
    * Wrap Your Troubles In Dreams - Bing Crosby
    * Brother Can You Spare A Dime - Bing Crosby
    * Oh Danny Boy - Bing Crosby
    * You're the Top - Cole Porter
    * It's Bad For Me - Cole Porter
    * 20th Century Blues - Noel Coward
    * World Weary - Noel Coward
    * How Much Is That Doggie In The Windows - Patti Page
    * Bei Mir Bist Du Schon - The Andrews Sisters
    * God Bless The Child - Billie Holiday
    * Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray
    * If I Didn't Care - The Inkspots

EDIT - Just finished compiling my own version of the soundtrack.  66 tracks (though that's deceiving, a fair number of those are recordings/PSAs/ads from the game thrown in for flavor) and pretty well thought out if I do say so myself.  Just over 2 hours of music.  I'm a happy man.

This is the entire list of all of the ambient music, from Ken Levine himself that Major Nelson has acquired.

I don't know if what you have up there is all of it, some of it, or what have you -- so, check and compare notes, if you'd like. :)

Levine's Ambient Music List for Bioshock (http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2007/10/11/bioshock-music-list.aspx)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, October 12, 2007, 12:34:07 AM
We've talked about this before, somewhere.  What is an RPG?  MysterD took a crack at it.  I would definitely call SS 1 and 2 first-person real-time RPGs.  I would not call Bioshock one.  I know there will be those who disagree in all 3 cases.

Fort Frolic is a fun level, Xessive.  Welcome to an evening with Sander Cohen.

I agree with your observations. I think most would as well.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, October 12, 2007, 03:54:10 PM
Thanks, Pug.  I keep wanting to go back to SS2 now, for comparison.

I had no idea where those plastered bodies in Fort Frolic came from, until I watched the last half hour or so of Bucket of Blood last night.  What a horrible movie.

That's weird about the complete music list (assuming that really is it).  It was never published before because Major Nelson lost it?  He's the only one who could get it from Levine?

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Friday, October 12, 2007, 07:07:54 PM
I had no idea where those plastered bodies in Fort Frolic came from, until I watched the last half hour or so of Bucket of Blood last night.  What a horrible movie.
Completely unrelated to Bioshock, but I just wanted to point out that I love when stuff like that happens.  A recent Wired issue piqued my interest in the movie Blade Runner so I started watching it.  I immediately saw where the old game Syndicate got idea for those flying propaganda blimps with the big screens on the side that you see in between missions.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, October 12, 2007, 07:18:06 PM
Wow, that's an oldie right there.  I never did play Syndicate, though, just Syndicate Wars.

Also, yeah Cobra, I talked to Levine on the message boards and he told me that he didn't have a complete list on hand, and then he never got back to me on it because the whole mysterious Levine disappearance happened where they removed that thread that he started and we didn't hear from him again.  I haven't been back in a while now, so don't know if he showed up again, but I think that probably put a damper on his getting us the list.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, October 12, 2007, 10:21:52 PM
haha I loved Syndicate and Bullfrog. :)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 06:36:29 PM
Levine speaks on what they plan to do for DLC in Bioshock (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3163716)

Quote
Ken Levine on BioShock DLC
Creator wants to more replayability, not new narrative.
By Patrick Klepek, 10/16/2007
BioShock isn't exactly the kind of game you expect downloadable content for. There's no multiplayer and the storyline doesn't lend itself to simply dropping in additional "levels." At the same time, unless you're interested in unlocking all the achievements, there isn't much motivation to play through the game a second or third time -- but creator Ken Levine of Irrational Games 2K Boston envisions that as how he'll approach the game's DLC.

"Diablo II, to me, was a great model for an expansion, because it enhanced the original game, but also extended the game, too. I'm not a really big fan of expanding things just by linearly adding to the experience, adding a new campaign, as much as I am of enhancing the original experience and adding replayability to that experience," said Levine in a post-release interview in the latest issue of Games for Windows Magazine. "I think that certainly BioShock's combat experience is great, but it could be broader. I'm a little more confused as far as how to expand the narrative experience."

Levine says "a lot of plasmids got cut" during development, so you can imagine where his team might start mining for ideas on extending the BioShock experience in the months to come. There's no news on when we'll see the fruits of their efforts, but it's good to know they haven't forgotten those still enamored with Rapture.

The November 2007 issue of Games For Windows Magazine, featuring Gearbox Software's Borderlands and Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway on the cover, arrives in subscriber's hands starting today and on newsstands October 30.

Hopefully, if they do the DLC Content, they'll add a ton of kick-ass plasmids in one DLC; not just one Plasmid in a DLC here and then one more in another DLC; you get my drift.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 16, 2007, 06:37:58 PM
I'm definitely going to go through this again.  I was doing so, but I think I'm going to just stop, wait, and do it again in a few months, maybe once some DLC has come out.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, October 29, 2007, 02:04:41 PM
I'm reading an article from GFW in the new issue (Nov. 2007), which has an interview w/ Ken Levine.

Some interesting tidbits:

--Levine mentions that originally, he had one ending planned for the game. But, Greg Gobbi of 2K suggested to him that the game should have multiple endings and Levine liked that idea.
--Levine mentions that the end part of the game came quite late in development, were written quite late, and were built late in development.
--Levine says physics and graphics aren't the future of gaming; freedom is the future of gaming.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, October 29, 2007, 02:20:55 PM
I'm definitely going to go through this again.  I was doing so, but I think I'm going to just stop, wait, and do it again in a few months, maybe once some DLC has come out.

Or after you have a new video card?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, October 29, 2007, 04:14:50 PM
Freedom is the present of gaming.  It just doesn't get delivered often enough.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 01:08:04 AM
So, um, this game doesn't run well for me at all.  Like, it's not even really a performance issue, but it almost 'hitches' at weird times.  It's strange because I thought it might be a bit too demanding, and yet the demo was fine.  What nvidia drivers was everyone using to play this?  That's really the only thing I can think of.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 01:17:15 AM
I assume you updated those when you got your new card.  They were updated specifically for the game at some point.

Strange.  I don't get hitching at all.  I know you have a card slightly superior to mine, and my performance was quite acceptable.  I wonder what that could be.  I have some vague recollection of somebody posting about an issue like that, though, so a forum search over at cultofrapture.com might avail you something.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 01:30:47 AM
Yeah, actually I installed new drivers right before playing Bioshock as well, and having just tried out Gears of War I think it has something to do with the new drivers (good for Crysis = bad for UE3 games I guess).  I'll roll back and see how that works.  One day.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 03:07:06 AM
Yeah, actually I installed new drivers right before playing Bioshock as well, and having just tried out Gears of War I think it has something to do with the new drivers (good for Crysis = bad for UE3 games I guess).  I'll roll back and see how that works.  One day.
I think the driver that were listed as "good for Crysis" is the 169.09 beta. I've got them on now and GoW and Bioshock are fine.

The driver that was originally made for Bioshock was the 163.71 beta, and subsequently all WHQL drivers after that.

The only problem I had with the 163+ drivers was the widescreen 16:10 resolution issues. I'm back on my 17" at 1280x1024 so I have no idea if they've fixed the issue or not. I keep my 22" as my secondary, mainly for movies and stuff.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 02:40:12 PM
It's probably worth mentioning that 2K Boston/Irrational Games Boston is not too far from where I work; on the same street, a little walk down.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 07:59:33 PM
Interesting, I don't know what's really going on then (although I haven't rolled back the drivers yet), but I do know it's certainly something strange that's the issue, and just not enough power.  It's not even like a low frame rate, it's like the game just pauses for a second, the frames drop to zero, and then slowly go back up.  Might be an install problem, which could be somehow related to the problem I hvae with the FEAR patch not installing.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 09:38:32 PM
Actually, I remember now - the GSpot review.  Gerstmann had the same problem.  I wonder what the deal is.  That was the first and last I ever heard of the issue.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 10:00:32 PM
Interesting.  I was experimenting a bit earlier on today and I may have gotten to the bottom of it (may have).  It seems like if I switch any of the graphical settings (or first start up the game) it gets kind of 'bogged down'.  If I leave it for 30 sec or so it seems to work itself out, but if I keep playing it never quite 'catches up'.  Almost seems like pre-caching or something.  I could be totally wrong about this though.

How are the load times for everyone?  Because the load time when I first start the game and load a save here are just brutal, so that could signal something is amiss.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 10:03:08 PM
They weren't instantaneous, but I don't remember them being too horrendous.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 10:35:07 PM
what's funny is that D's post was all but ignored... hahaha I guess it wasn't worth mentioning then huh  ;D
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 10:53:10 PM
Good performance interrupted regularly by complete halts can be related to anything, misbehaved audio, virtual memory intruding, snags on the bus, video-memory swapping, what have you.  You may need to look beyond your video card and drivers.  I know this isn't directly helpful.  Just saying those keys you dropped may not be under the brightest streetlight.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 10:55:03 PM
Haha D, can you run down and ask 'em about it? :P
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 12:38:38 AM
Well, it stopped doing it for the most part so I don't know what was up with that.  It seems almost like what I said before: if I let it sit for a few seconds after loading,it's fine.  Whacked.

To be perfectly honest, performance isn't quite what I'd like.  It's not bad by any means (always above 30fps, usually between 45-70) at 1024x768 with everything maxed.  I really can't expect anything more than that, but it's so atmospheric it almost seems like a waste to not be playing it at 1280x960.  Still, it seems great so far.

And that's pretty much that for now.  I have so much other stuff to play I'm putting this on the back burner for the time being.  It's great, but I still have to finish FEAR, get bored of Oblivion, and finish GoW.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 01:53:49 AM
This is probably not the thread for this but well I'm here now...
This is another reason why I prefer the 360 (or any console given the nature of my rant) I mean what the hell is with drivers! You should (or at least you used to be) only be concerned with having the latest, now its the case of having the version of the driver that works best with your game!? Fuck that, give me a driver that works. And why beta? Is that because it only works with some games and not others?
I'm on the fringe of PC gaming now my last PC purchase was C&C3 before that... I guess WoW. If the PC platform has gotten to the point where you need different drivers for different games, and/or betas then screw it I'm not building my own system and I'll happily stay on the 360.
This is probably a bit over the top and a generalisation but from what I’ve reed it’s seems that you now need to update your drivers based on the game you want to play not just to squeeze another 5fps.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 01:57:05 AM
I've rolled back drivers for a game maybe twice in like ten years.  It's far from common.  And consoles have just as many problems, they're just different ones, and often more aggravating because they're generally beyond the user's control to fix.  I say it's an even playing field in the end.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 02:07:13 AM
When certain problems are fixed new ones may arise, possibly causing incompatibilities. It's is pretty common, and has always been the case with PC hardware and gaming. At least that's why I generally check the release notes before I update. That's the disadvantage of PC's not being so universal like consoles or Macs.

Although if we do reach a point where you have to install specific drivers individually for each game it would get so damn irritating.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 02:08:18 AM
I highly doubt that anything even approaching that would ever happen.  In fact, I find the thought rather ludicrous.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 02:19:43 AM
I highly doubt that anything even approaching that would ever happen.  In fact, I find the thought rather ludicrous.
Yeah, but considering how retarded much of the world is getting I firmly believe that anything, no matter how horrific, is possible.

The whole point of PC hardware being developed the way it is to avoid such a driver hell. Hopefully we won't reach that level of redundancy. Drivers are meant to make hardware more versatile.

Back to Bioshock; has there been any word on a patch? Not that the game is buggy, I'm just curious, but maybe something for the Widescreen cropping issue.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Jedi on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 02:35:11 AM
Yeah if the trend I'm seeing continues then we'll see drivers for particular games, I'm not saying we're there yet, just that the situation appears to be worse now that it was 12 months ago. It just seems that drivers have become worse or something.
Also I'm not saying consoles are without issues just that this BS with drivers is somethig I don't have to be concerned with, that said I'm looking at building a new PC just to play around with OC it and such.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 02:35:35 AM
The point of consoles is not to have to fuck with any of that.  If it's bad, it's bad for everyone, and there will be hell to pay.  They'll fix it, or they'll disappear.  It won't be a minority of people who chose an unlucky hardware and software configuration, and who have no clout or hope of getting a fix in the near future.  There's good and there's bad on every platform.  Compatibility is where consoles shine.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 02:34:49 PM
Yeah, but considering how retarded much of the world is getting I firmly believe that anything, no matter how horrific, is possible.

The whole point of PC hardware being developed the way it is to avoid such a driver hell. Hopefully we won't reach that level of redundancy. Drivers are meant to make hardware more versatile.

Back to Bioshock; has there been any word on a patch? Not that the game is buggy, I'm just curious, but maybe something for the Widescreen cropping issue.

Last time I heard word of a patch was when Levine said they'd work on a patch to fix that issue.
And that was like RIGHT after Bioshock PC first came out!

I'm still waiting on more info on upcoming Bioshock DLC stuff.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 03:23:39 PM
Isn't the FOV angle changeable in the PC game's console, or config?  I thought a patch for this was only necessary on the console version.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, November 28, 2007, 11:12:17 PM
Isn't the FOV angle changeable in the PC game's console, or config?  I thought a patch for this was only necessary on the console version.
I remember in any Unreal engine game setting the FOV was a simple console command, in fact some of them even have it as a menu option. I think in Bioshock because the console is more difficult to access, regardless I believe the problem is more than just the FOV. It has to do with setting the cropping in reference to the resolution.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, November 29, 2007, 03:12:32 PM
Okay, rumor time. Take it for what it's worth.

If it's true, damn -- that's some crazy news. (http://www.destructoid.com/surfer-girl-promises-bioshock-2-new-team-to-work-on-it-people-sick-of-levine-56577.phtml)

Quote
Surfer Girl, the mysterious prophet who has become the gamer's Oracle of choice, today shares with us gossip from 2K Boston concerning the development of BioShock 2. After pointing to a Gamasutra job posting that stated the BioShock creators were setting up a new studio in the Bay area, the Surfing woman of mystery delved deeper into the story behind this relocation:

    "2K Boston is still recovering - a good chunk of the BioShock team did not want to work with Ken ever again, and 2K definitely understood the sentiment and let them set up a new studio so that they can make Bioshock 2, leaving Ken with Project X. A good chunk of the other senior 2K Boston people who were sick of Ken but didn't move to San Francisco ended up scattering to other AAA developers instead. In Quincy, they're essentially rebuilding a team from almost scratch again."

As ever, this is all conjecture until something rock-solid is seen, but since everything Surfer Girl says seems to cause a stir, it's worth at least taking on board. If it's true, Ken Levine is not a popular man and clearly didn't win over any friends during the development of BioShock. Also, what would a new team bring to a franchise that Ken seemed to have his hands all over?

EDIT:
Well, word gets around quick -- looks like it's possible a good deal of this might be true... (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3164639)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, November 29, 2007, 08:18:20 PM
That's pretty crazy.  I never heard anything bad about Ken pretty much ever, and when I've talked to him he's always been a really nice dude.  Granted you don't generally hear people go around badmouthing the boss, but usually big personalities that cause problems end up sort of showing themselves for what they are at some point.  I'd be pretty sad if that were actually true.  I hope it isn't.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, November 29, 2007, 08:26:37 PM
I really hope not too, Que.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Thursday, November 29, 2007, 08:45:13 PM
All I know is that guy made a pretty wicked game. 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, November 29, 2007, 08:47:24 PM
All I know is that guy made a pretty wicked game. 

Hard to argue that.

I wonder if Levine is a perfectionist...
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, November 29, 2007, 11:35:15 PM
I get the feeling he is kind of a perfectionist, and perhaps he pushed a few people in order to get things done his way. Regardless, the game came out successfully and earned a lot of acclamation.

I have the 'Making of' DVD with the interviews and stuff, and I've noticed a little thing with several development teams when they're being interviewed: they almost always seem like they just came out of ordeal, like they're being interviewed on the Discovery Channel about their experience after the vicious bear attack. Y'know when they have that silent moment before answering a question and you can almost see a tear drop escape from an eye and roll down the face. The two teams I've really seen this with are these guys and Lionhead.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, November 29, 2007, 11:43:57 PM
Hmmmm...we know Molyneux is a perfectionist, wants things his way, and has this ridiculously huge scope and bar he sets for his games -- whether he makes it there, that can be another story.

Hmmm...maybe Levine is a lot like Molyneux, in that regard...?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Friday, November 30, 2007, 03:42:30 PM
Patch and free Plasmid DLC coming next week (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=50153).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, November 30, 2007, 03:53:12 PM
Patch and free Plasmid DLC coming next week (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=50153).
Yay!!! :)

Quote
The patches will also address the game's field-of-vision perspective, following an intense bout of controversy over the way BioShock handles its widescreen display.
Finally.

Quote
2K community manager Elizabeth Tobey tells Shacknews that the DLC will at least include extra plasmids for players to mess around with,
Cool.

Quote
A way to disable Vita-Chambers for hardcore play
Oooh, that'll be good -- especially for veterans of the game!
Especially on HARD.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, November 30, 2007, 05:01:15 PM
I doubt the 360 DLC will be free, but I'll probably end up getting it anyway.  I don't much care about anything in the patch.  I stopped using the vita chambers early on.  I guess they will be easier to avoid with the patch, so that's good.  I never had a problem with the FOV on my wide screen, and if widening the view cone impacts performance, I flat-out don't want it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, November 30, 2007, 07:41:18 PM
I doubt the 360 DLC will be free, but I'll probably end up getting it anyway.  I don't much care about anything in the patch.  I stopped using the vita chambers early on.
Yes, you could avoid it by loading your last save, of course...


Vita Chamber Disabling/Enabling
Quote from: Cobra
I guess they will be easier to avoid with the patch, so that's good.

I think it's a great idea to have gamers be able to have a HardCore Mode that'll disable the usage of Vita Chambers if they want, since using the Vita Chamber doesn't reset the health of your enemies that you actually did damage on.

I think if the game did reset the health of enemies you injured when you go forced back to a Vita chamber, it'd be okay -- plus, you avoid a "load screen" and "load times" entirely by using a Vita Chamber. :P

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, November 30, 2007, 08:41:17 PM
Sounds like a great package to me.  I won't be grabbing it since I don't have the game installed currently, but I will most certainly grab it before I play the game again (which will be right after I somehow magically get myself a new video card).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, December 01, 2007, 06:59:55 PM
Sounds like a great package to me.  I won't be grabbing it since I don't have the game installed currently, but I will most certainly grab it before I play the game again (which will be right after I somehow magically get myself a new video card).

The patch has been a long time coming -- and it looks like it'll address, more or less, close to every concern people have had w/ the game; the Vita-Chamber concerns and the concerns of the Widescreen.

Plus, new Plasmid DLC's sound good to me! :)

All we need now is for them to rid of that horrid Securom CP....
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 03, 2007, 08:43:54 PM
EDIT, Monday 12/3:

From Cult of Rapture
Here's your list of fixes and changes w/ the new patch.

Patch is due out at MIDNIGHT Tonight, PST. (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/pcpatch.html)

Quote
BIOSHOCK PC PATCH, XBOX 360 TITLE UPDATE AND DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT
December 3, 2007


PC PATCH UPDATES, FIXES, AND FEATURES

- Added the following plasmids and gene tonics: Sonic Boom, Sonic Boom 2, Eve   Saver, Machine Buster, Machine - Buster 2, Vending Expert, Vending Expert 2
- Added an Option to disable the Vita-Chambers for added difficulty
- Added support for a walk toggle keybind
- Added Horizontal FOV Lock option
- Fixed mouse acceleration issues
- Fixed reserved keys not functioning properly when keys are unbound
- Fixed multiple cases of keys not allowing a rebind
- Re-added the Human Inferno tonic
- Changed behavior of subtitles so that inappropriate queuing does not occur
- Changed functionality of keybinding lookup to only search in the current input context when finding bindings for in-game display
- Added rendering support for TripleHead2Go
- Atlas VO volume increased for German releases
- Fixed issue of subtitles not clearing correctly occasionally
- Fixed issue causing long hitches or hangs when accessing certain interface screens, machines, and the hacking minigame
- Fix for a potential situation in Recreation where taking a picture of Cobb is impossible if his body gets stuck behind a fallen pillar
- Fixed subtitle timings to more accurately match the on screen audio
- Fixed issue causing stuttering audio when using Windows Vista
- Fixed issue with characters squirming and wiggling after death
- Fixed blood decals and other projectors not showing up on ATI hardware
- The "Enable EAX" option is now greyed out when EAX-capable hardware is not present
- Fixed audio issues stemming from having a Speaker Setting in Windows that was invalid for the current sound card
- Removed erroneous "Reload" binding in a no-weapons context
- Fixed incorrect Training Message concerning bots who are friendly to enemy AIs
- Fixed incorrect Training Message when shooting a Mimic
- Fixed refresh rate being locked at 60hz in DX10 mode
- Fixed VSync disabling in DX10 mode


XBOX 360 TITLE UPDATE FIXES AND FEATURES

- Added widescreen option: Horizontal FOV
- Fix for rare case where a partial cache is not cleared
- Increased Atlas’ volume in German
- Fix for GUI sounds not playing during heavy action
- Fix for not being able to take picture of Cobb in Rec
- Possible fix for pauses or hangs when opening flash bink movies
- Fix for switching difficulty breaking achievement
- Fix for small texture streaming bug
- Fix for rare hang when a lot of things are going on at once


XBOX 360 DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT

- Added Disable Vita Chamber option
- Plasmid Pack is included in this DLC (Machine Buster 1 & 2, Vending Expert 1 & 2, Sonic Boom 1 & 2, EVE Saver)
- 100 point achievement for beating game without Vita Chamber called "Brass Balls"
  How to do it:
        Must beat game on Hard
        Must not use a Vita Chamber (you can always roll back to an earlier save)
        The Vita Chamber Disabled option can be on or off as long as you don’t resurrect
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, December 03, 2007, 08:51:04 PM
Holy crap.  That's one hell of a patch.  It sucks that the game needed one at all (though I guess it was in pretty good shape for the most part), but at least they truly delivered.  That's a great list of improvements to a game that wasn't really even broken.  Plus free DLC stuff?  That's awesome all around.  Kudos to Irrational.

It's not quite Sacrifice Patch 3 quality, but it's pretty close.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 03, 2007, 09:20:18 PM
Holy crap.  That's one hell of a patch.
No shit!

Quote
It sucks that the game needed one at all (though I guess it was in pretty good shape for the most part), but at least they truly delivered.
Sounds like it, yes.

And it's not like there were many issues out the box, either.

Quote
That's a great list of improvements to a game that wasn't really even broken.
Yes.

Quote
Plus free DLC stuff?  That's awesome all around.  Kudos to Irrational.
Amen.

Quote
It's not quite Sacrifice Patch 3 quality, but it's pretty close.
Shit, was the patch that good??!?!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 03, 2007, 10:49:50 PM
While the patch offers major improvements, from what little I played, the game seemed to run very well anyway.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, December 04, 2007, 12:19:29 AM
Yay more Bioshock!

I'll try a wider FOV, but I was fine with it already.  The cache problem is well known.  Yep, GUI sounds sometimes went bye bye.  Bink?  *Shudder*  Did notice popping textures, but I assumed this was necessary to prevent a worse problem: hitching, or momentary freezes while loading new stuff.  And the game did hang on me a couple of times.  Not bad for playing through about 10 times, but it's still a huge mortal sin.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, December 09, 2007, 06:27:37 AM
OK so I've been playing Bioshock today, and man do I love it. I am at the end of the Medical Pavilion level where I was instructed to attack the "Big Daddy" in order to harvest. When I finally killed him, the little sister just ran towards him screaming,"NOOOO MR.BUBBLES!", and then just started to sob in her demonic voice.

I felt so guilty...

The game started really slowly. While the narrative was always strong, the action was slow and slightly disappointing. The problem was that I wasn't using the plasmid powers, because I was worried that if I used them too much, I'd turn into some sort of a splicer at the end. I guess was reading too much into the roleplaying.

So yea, while on a pure shooter level the game isn't too strong, with the plasmid stuff in combination, it is simply awesome. I am loving this game. There seems to be so much hard work put into it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 09, 2007, 06:45:02 AM
Bioshock was awesome, Pug.
It's in My Personal Top 10 Games of All Time.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, December 09, 2007, 08:18:15 AM
Hey so I haven't been following this Bioshock stuff. Do I leave the FOV lock in the patch on?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 09, 2007, 08:48:04 AM
Hey so I haven't been following this Bioshock stuff. Do I leave the FOV lock in the patch on?
The Horizontal FOV lock is meant for those w/ WIDESCREEN monitors.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, December 09, 2007, 08:52:57 AM
Yea I gave it a go, and there is a massive difference. I can see what people were ticked.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 09, 2007, 08:56:15 AM
Yea I gave it a go, and there is a massive difference. I can see what people were ticked.

Glad you like their fix!

Enjoy the game, bro! :)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, December 10, 2007, 01:17:40 AM
Yeah, I've been playing a fair amount of this as well.  The action is pretty weak except for the Big Daddy fights, but it really make up for it with the environment and all that. Essentially, I've just been shocking people/shooting them with bees and then clubbing them with my wrench.  I'm fairly certain I can get through the game doing so, especially because every time someone tries to physically hit me they get shocked pretty much to death.

I've also been saving all the little sisters since it doesn't seem like Adam shortages are a huge problem.  But I think that the radio diaries are by far my favorite part. Hearing about the interactions between Fontaine, Ryan, and Atlas' people is pretty interesting.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 10, 2007, 01:22:13 AM
I agree. The radio diaries -- while nothing new in gaming -- add a lot to the atmosphere, and I look forward to finding them. And yes, without the plasmid powers, the combat would be really weak.

I am just not particularly challenged, even by the Big Daddies.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, December 10, 2007, 01:27:58 AM
That's the thing, you're a bit over powered.  With the right plasmids and ammo you can easily take down the tougher Bid Daddies without worrying about being hit.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 10, 2007, 01:42:21 AM
I think that's probably the average gamer wasn't as enamored by Bioshock as the critics. While most writers and people like us find the storyline and atmosphere a good pay off, Gamer Joe doesn't care about that really.

While critical scores average around 9.5, most gamers rate this between 7.5 and 8.0.

I suppose that's because people care more about run and gun shooting than anything else.

Still it shows how much power critics have, and why all these publishers are desperate for higher scores. While fans seem to rate this as merely an above average title, the game has sold enormously well. The first week sales were apparently amazing.

 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Monday, December 10, 2007, 01:48:32 AM
It was heavily marketed as well. I saw many ads on television for it. I'm sure that contributed more than the good reviews.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 10, 2007, 01:49:52 AM
Yes, probably. It was also one of the few "AAA" titles at the time of its release.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: PyroMenace on Monday, December 10, 2007, 01:51:52 AM
Argh... never did finish it. Its really burning me too... this one and Okami... and God of War. Those are like the big 3.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, December 10, 2007, 02:06:41 AM
Difficulty ramps up a great deal later on.  You face the same kinds of enemies, but they are much stronger.  My favorite combination was freezing + shattering with the wrench.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Monday, December 10, 2007, 02:17:24 AM
So far the most useful plasmids to me are the shock and chameleon. Thank God for chameleon!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, December 10, 2007, 02:24:59 AM
It's funny how everyone has different opinions.  I used telekinesis more than anything, I think.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Monday, December 10, 2007, 06:33:18 AM
It's funny how everyone has different opinions.  I used telekinesis more than anything, I think.
I think that's one of many strengths of the game :) The game is simplelistic and fairly linear, but the variety of plasmids really changes the way you play!

Telekinesis is pretty handy, and throwing objects can do some serious damage as I've noticed!

I like electro-shock coz it has several uses; it can stun enemies, severely shock (instant-kill sometimes) a group in water, and it can open certain doors.

Anyway, that's the beauty of the game; the variety really makes it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Monday, December 10, 2007, 08:03:01 AM
Chameleon?  What the heck is that.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: JacksRag(e) on Monday, December 10, 2007, 12:52:48 PM
I think chameleon could be that one plasmid that makes you invisible to the enemy until you start attacking.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, December 10, 2007, 12:57:53 PM
It's funny how everyone has different opinions.  I used telekinesis more than anything, I think.

I swear I made a post replying to this. Anyway I too use telekinesis a lot, like it were the gravity gun in HL2.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, December 10, 2007, 02:03:25 PM
I think chameleon could be that one plasmid that makes you invisible to the enemy until you start attacking.

That's the one.  I used it a lot too, if I had room for it.  But I was thinking attack plasmids.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, December 10, 2007, 06:12:30 PM
I always have it equipped but haven't really found it all that useful. Generally I'm walking around when I encounter enemies, so that kind of negates the potential.

WindSpring or whatever can make for some hilarious moments though.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Monday, December 10, 2007, 08:36:01 PM
I don't even remember chameleon.  You can tell how much I used it.

I used the electroshock by far the most.  Plus the ice one and the fire one.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, December 10, 2007, 10:25:00 PM
I just finished it.  Awesome game.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 12:12:48 AM
Yeah, I think everyone wanted just a bit more from the endings.  Still, I was pretty satisfied all in all (got the good ending).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 11:40:22 AM
I think even Levine admitted that the wrap-up was weak.  There's a way to beat the final boss with hardly a scratch too, which was sort of a disappointment when I stumbled on it.  (Remember I played through this game about 10 times.)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 06:53:27 PM
Heh, never thought of that.

Also, I'd written a review I forgot all about.  I'll post it sometime soon just because... well, I wrote it and may as well post it even though nobody cares.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, December 12, 2007, 06:54:23 PM
Damn, Cobra...and I had a HELL of a time trying to beat that final boss, when I did!  :o
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, December 23, 2007, 07:15:35 AM
Levine speaks about Bioshock w/ 1Up, post Spike TV Awards.

Oh, and Ken gives his speech he would've gave, if GameCock didn't cockblock him from giving his speech. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3165162)

Quote
Ken Levine Talks BioShock
The VGA acceptance speech we didn't hear and more!
By Garnett Lee, 12/21/2007

As Sam commented on, an ill-conceived publicity stunt by GameCock (for which they did apologize) at the Spike VGA's threw the show off and left Ken Levine without a chance to say anything as he accepted the award for Game of the Year given to BioShock. While he's off enjoying some well-deserved vacation time, he took a few minutes out to give us his acceptance speech and answer a few questions looking back at BioShock.

1UP: It's been a good amount of time now since BioShock's release. Two million copies sold and heaps of awards are proof-positive people loved the game. Looking back, what do you consider BioShock's greatest weakness, and what might you have done differently?

Ken Levine: In short, I underestimated how much people would care about the story. The 3rd act of the game is the weakest part. I just never realized how much people were going to invest in the climactic Andrew Ryan scene, and I think the remainder of the game can not equal that.
I liked the third act, though. Basically, it....
(click to show/hide)

But the endings could've been fleshed out; could've been longer.

Still, a great game and great story.

Quote
1UP: The moral choice presented with the Little Sisters forced people to pick a side pretty early on -- but still have a chance to change. When you play BioShock, how do you approach the dilemma of whether to save or harvest the girls?

KL: a total wimp. I (outside of testing) have never harvested. My favorite story comes from a journalist whose fiancée caught him harvesting. He apparently had to spend a night or two sleeping on the couch.
ROFL!

Quote
1UP: Tell us something we may not know about BioShock or its development.

KL: The twist
(click to show/hide)
came fairly late in development. I'm way more focused on gameplay early on than I am on the story. Most of the best BioShock story stuff came in the final months.
Interesting.

Quote
1UP: If 2K Marin is working on BioShock 2, what's going on at 2K Boston...development on another new IP?

KL: Sorry, can't comment on rumors or speculation.
Hmmmm....
I still do wonder what's up w/ the split b/t 2K Marin and Boston....

Quote
1UP: Going forward, what are going to be the biggest challenges to continuing the franchise with a BioShock sequel?

KL: The first game set a pretty high bar. Sequels are always going to be a challenge because expectations are way up there.

1UP: The Northeast ain't exactly the hotbed of game development. Where are you finding your talent?

KL: Having a hit game makes recruitment a lot easier. I remember the early days of recruiting on System Shock 2, we'd get some pretty depressing resumes. But we're extremely selective. It took us ten years to build the team that made BioShock.
Interesting.

Quote
1UP: Which game are you most looking forward to playing in 2008, and what was your GOTY for 2007?

KL: I may disappoint some people with this, but the game I'm looking forward to in 2008 is Smash Bros. Now that I finally managed to crack my way into Outland, I'm now psyched for the next WOW expansion. In terms of Best of '07; that's a tough one.

My friend Andrew Mayer, who's also a game designer, said that '07 was kind of like 1939 in Hollywood, when the nominees included Gone with the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington and a bunch of other all-time classics. So, I'm gonna stay away from the traditional favorites here and go with J'eanne D'Arc on the PSP. That said, Portal was amazing, as was Rock Band, Galaxy and too many others to mention. What an insanely great year.
Portal ruled -- agreed.
I wish there was more content to it, though.

Quote
1UP: During E3, we caught you walking the streets of Santa Monica reading comic books-so we figure you're at least something of a fan. If you could turn any comic book into a videogame, which one would it be and how would you do it?

KL: I'd love to make a tactical RPG out of last summer's Marvel Civil War. I totally fanboi'd out on that one.
Heh!

Quote
1UP: What was going through your head during the Gamecock incident at the VGAs? Since the incident, Gamecock has publicly apologized, but still, that must've been a bummer for you and your team.

KL: All I really gave a crap about was that the judges (who were all top journalists) chose us from the field. The rest is kind of gravy.

1UP: Still, it must have been a pretty exciting moment. What were you hoping to have a chance to say?

KL: I had a tireless, amazing team who was on a mission to make BioShock great. We didn't have 300 people or five years. We had an insane amount of passion. I'd like to thank the people who made it with me, the families that patiently waited while we did our thing, the publisher with the guts not to make us change it, and the fans who showed that gamers have a much broader range of interest and intellect than anybody in certain parts of the media or the political space is comfortable giving them credit for.
*sarcasm*
Thanks for interrupting *that* speech, GameCock....

Quote
1UP: Grilling aside, what're your plans for the holidays?

KL: More Galaxy, more Rock Band, cracking open my newly arrived signed copy of Mass Effect (Thanks Ray and Greg!), more WOW, more Uncharted, more Call of Duty, more sleep.
Cool.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: PyroMenace on Sunday, December 23, 2007, 07:20:54 AM
Well when I started playing it earlier I got hooked again. I restarted and I'm already almost back to where I left off.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, December 23, 2007, 09:36:59 AM
Good stuff.  It's definitely one of those games that's worth seeing to the end for the cool moments that really make it special.

Nice interview, too.  Always good see Jeanne d'Arc get some love.  Probably the best purchase I've yet made for my PSP, frankly.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, December 23, 2007, 08:04:51 PM
Who the fuck is Gamecock?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, December 23, 2007, 11:19:00 PM
I just assumed it was you.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, December 24, 2007, 11:41:38 AM
Who the fuck is Gamecock?

A bunch of dicks who got in Levine's way when he was about to make his acceptance speech.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, December 25, 2007, 01:01:52 AM
They're a game studio.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, December 25, 2007, 06:13:43 AM
They're a game studio.

Umm....WTF?

Then they have even more right of a right to not disrespect Mr. Levine.

If Gamecock even wins an award, I hope Levine interrupts their speech, dressed as a Big Daddy and....
(leaves the rest to your violent imagination)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, January 05, 2008, 04:16:32 PM
Interview from GamePro w/ Levine. (http://www.gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/features/154968.shtml)

Quote
GamePro: You already made a few references to these earlier versions of BioShock and I find it really interesting just because - and I think a lot of people do to - the game as it is, is so polished. The word I have heard, and it is used a lot, is BioShock has fine craftsmanship- and that is not something you hear very often about video games. This begs this sort of intrigue about the development process of the game. I have read a few other interviews where you spoke on the earlier versions of the game. I have heard at one point, and I don't know if this came up in an interview with you or if you had said this specifically, but there was one story that it was originally involving Nazis and they there was this other one that you were this D-programmer; so what is the real story there, are all they true? And how did the game end up evolving into its current state?

Ken Levine: They are all true. We went through a lot of different stages on the story. Much to the chagrin of everyone around me they happened fairly late in development process, but I think that was because I was waiting for the game to tell me what the story was. I didn't go in there with a story axe to grind; like I needed to tell a story and didn't care what the game was. The game comes first for me, and it wasn't really until mid 2005 when the World of Rapture started to speak to me and I started to understand what it was... and then I had to convince everybody else.

I don't blame anybody for having doubts because it is not something that tricks off the tongue in terms of a place for a video game to take place. I Sort of had to sell it to myself first, then sell it internally, then to 2K and then sell it to the public. Each step of the way got a little easier because I had support of the people. Once I sold it to the team and they bought into it, my life got a lot easier. Amazing artists, animators, and designers built out this world. The vision I had in my head just got taken over by amazing games that these guys are creating everyday.

Now, here's where it gets interesting. There was a point in development where the design team wanted to cut the Big Daddies out of the game, but Levine wasn't having that.

Quote
KL: That said, I think you never know for sure whether it is going to work. I have told this story before but I remember when we were working on Shock 2 and the head of Looking Glass asked me, "So, is this game going to be scary?" I honestly didn't know., and it was the same with BioShock. I am doing all the things and turning the gears in all the right directions to make that happen... pressing the right buttons to make that happen, I think, but that is just my gut. At the end of the day, who knows if it is going to be scary; who knows if it is going to be fun. You just have to have an internal sensor for that and that sensor may be unreliable. Even the best directors and writers screw up. I have screwed up. The danger of that is sometimes you start doubting yourself, and let me tell you there are a million things that people blabbered on BioShock all along the way, that if I got panicked over, I would have done something stupid like there is a fairly large movement within the company to cut the Big Daddies at one point.

GP: Wow! Of all the things. That is very interesting. What was the concern?

KL: I guess it didn't work, like we couldn't get them to work properly. It was really complicated and you have to use your gut. Quite often we cut things out that were very smart to cut. In another universe the Big Daddies may have been smart to cut, but I had an attachment to them... maybe even an irrational attachment to them. I was in a position where I could say "No, we are not cutting this," though just because I run the company that doesn't mean I can do whatever I want. At the end of the day there are really talented guys and they can go wherever they want to go and do whatever the hell they want to do. I have to make sure they believe in me and what I am doing in the project. So you have to listen very carefully and sometimes people are right and sometimes people are wrong. I think the difference between a good game developer and a bad game developer is to know when to hold them and know when to fold them.
I dunno what Bioshock would've been like, w/out the Big Daddies. I mean, they were such a big part of the game, in the story and in the actual gameplay...

Quote
GP: This sounds really open-ended, but in a nutshell what do you think game designers are doing right, and what do you think they are doing wrong?

KL: In a nutshell they are giving gamers more freedom and they are not spoon-feeding them their stories with walkthroughs. They are opening things up for the gamer and that is the future of games; it is freedom. I think what we are doing is a lot more right, than what we've been wrong
Interesting. Yes, freedom can be a good thing; very good thing, when done right. I dunno', but it depends on the game, really. Elder Scrolls games were amazing b/c they know how to make the game so open-ended and keep you wanting to keep at the actual game. The game was great. The story was good, but yeah -- it's obviously no Witcher or PS:T, when it comes to story and game characters.

On another hand, The Witcher was great b/c it had the best of all worlds -- some freedom to do what you want here, some decisions that you will have to make there, and then there was some linearity to the game itself. And yes, that's probably why the story's so focused and so strong -- b/c you could only be one character (Geralt), like it or not. They obviously saw what made PS:T so great, if you ask me.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, January 05, 2008, 04:27:14 PM
We've been through this argument before.  Freedom is always a good thing.  It is never a bad thing.  (Redundance for emphasis.)  Freedom trumps story any day, and I hope that eventually games allow you the freedom to direct the story in the same fluid way that you can traverse terrain in an action RPG.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, January 05, 2008, 04:57:05 PM
Personally, I think a good mix makes for the most compelling games.  That's one of the big reasons that Final Fantasy XII has been so amazing for me.  While not as big or open as an Elder Scrolls game, it's pretty unrestrictive in allowing you to try for a number of different goals at most points, and the game seems extremely well balanced in terms of having static enemy levels and such yet still giving you lots of different areas where combat remains interesting.  Add in being able to unlock new purchases by turning in various combinations of loot, finding rare monsters (tons of these), doing the side-quest boss fights (tons of these), trying to get drops and steal/poach specific items out of different enemies to unlock more stuff, plus find all the hidden bosses and optional content, you've got a pretty amazing amount of freedom compared to other JRPGs.  But you've also got a tight story with great characters, fantastic writing, etc., and no matter how fun and interesting the other stuff is, the characters and story are absolutely why I'm still playing this game after 105 hours.  Morrowind and Oblivion both stole hundreds of hours of my life away too, and I love the fiction and backstory more than most, but there are many ways that FFXII branded itself upon me that TES games have never come close to doing, and a big part of that is the story.  The extra freedom in TES games makes up for it, but the fact remains that the thin story elements are still a negative.  Too, I don't think we can do much better than The Witcher in terms of story freedom.  Too much is a bad thing and leads to a sense of contrivance, though having your actions affect the way things turn out is definitely neat.  I wish you could play that one so we could get your thoughts on it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, January 05, 2008, 05:07:02 PM
I really have to track down FF XII and my PS2's composite cable (hopefully in the PS2 box).  The Witcher I think would take more new hardware than I can handle right now.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, January 05, 2008, 06:01:13 PM
I really have to track down FF XII and my PS2's composite cable (hopefully in the PS2 box).  The Witcher I think would take more new hardware than I can handle right now.

Well, CDProjekt RED has job listings for wanting X360 programmers...
...So, maybe the X360 will see a Witcher port?

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: TheOtherBelmont on Sunday, January 06, 2008, 03:26:12 AM
Well I finally got around to getting to play this game, my friend let me borrow his 360 while he was out of town and I just beat  Bioshock.  Awesome game, I will definitely be playing through it again when I get the PC version so I can see if there is a different ending for harvesting the little sisters instead of rescuing them and possibly playing through it on Hard.  I got the Little Sister savior ending and even got the achievement for saving all the little sisters in the game.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, January 06, 2008, 03:56:41 AM
I think most people go that route initially.  I tried to go back and do the other way, and honestly, I couldn't stomach it.  I did it a couple times and it *hurt*.  I gave up trying to do any more.  Though I think if you harvest even one you get the other ending.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, January 08, 2008, 02:48:35 PM
Guys, take this as a rumor. Not been confirmed yet.

Rumor has it that 2K Marin is working on The Bioshock Prequel set for sometime around 2009 -- yes, and they're doing it without Ken Levine. (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8557&Itemid=53)
 
Quote
BioShock Prequel in the Works?
By Tom Ivan    Print   |   Send to a friend   |   Email the editor

BLOG - Rumors indicate that the follow-up to one of last year’s top games, BioShock, will be a prequel focusing on the fall of the original game’s setting, the atmospheric and beautifully detailed underwater city Rapture.

According to internet murmurings, a BioShock follow-up is currently in pre-production and set for a 2009 release, backing up Take-Two’s previous comments that the title could develop into a franchise that sees a new release every two years.

Graphic design and plot are reportedly 2K’s primary focuses at the moment, and the story will likely be set before the events that took place in the original game, telling of how Rapture, a 1940s underwater utopian society, fell prey to greed and vice.

Another rumor based around Take-Two job postings suggests the title will primarily be developed at the publisher’s recently formed 2K Marin studio, while it has also been speculated that BioShock creator and director Ken Levine will not be involved in the project.
 
Levine spoke to Next-Gen last year about BioShock’s launch and the possibility of sequels.

Next-Gen's Blog is reserved for opinion pieces, quirky news stories and general news detritus. We welcome your comments on this article.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, January 08, 2008, 05:25:29 PM
ehhhh....this is a very story-driven game and a prequel isn't really what I'm interested in.  I can see where they're coming from, but I think the most interesting thing about Bioshock was hearing about the city and it's downfall.  That's the thing - I already totally know where this is going. 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, April 03, 2008, 01:58:18 PM

Levine made a comment that game plots need to be really "fucking stupid" and he explained why he said such a thing. (http://www.actiontrip.com/link.phtml?http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/37870/Ken-Levine-Clears-up-the-F-d-up-Story-Thing)

Quote
Ken Levine Clears up the F****d up Story Thing
Apr 03, 2008 at 12:46 AM - Robert "Apache" Howarth - 36 Comments

2K Boston's Ken "She Looked 18 to Me" Levine sent in a clarification about his earlier comments regarding the plot has to be really f***ing stupid for people to keep up with it post. Here's the dirt:

    I did a presentation on this at GDC.

    I talked about how the very basic plot of your game has to be very, very simple so people who are not inclined to care about your story can follow it. In BioShock it’s

    Act 1: Get to the sub

    Act 2: Kill X

    Act 3: Kill Y [edited out the names in case you haven't played it yet]

    However, once people are attached to those primal threads, they can, IF THEY CHOOSE, go deeper. That’s where in BioShock all the other storytelling devices kick in: the diaries, the public service announcements, the posters, the thousands of little scenes in the world of Rapture that tell the story of what happened there. But I like to assume there’s going to be some part of the audience that doesn’t care about that, and those people can opt out of it. But for the people who do care, they can choose to opt in and get a fairly complex story (and a VERY complex story relative to other console first person shooters).

    However, it’s also a question of training the audience. Shock 2 sold 200k units. Deus Ex maybe sold a couple hundred thousand more than that. So there’s simply not a lot of people out there who have experience with narrative oriented shooters. The broad shooter audience is just not that accustomed to complicated story. However, I think BioShock (and other games this year such as Portal) demonstrates that audience is ready for more. Just like FPS added more gameplay elements over time (the move to full 3d, vehicles, objective based stuff like in Battlefield) the story telling space can become more complex as the audience gets comfortable receiving story in game rather than in pre- rendered cutscenes. In short, the next game we do can be more complex, and the one after that can be more complex still.

Storytelling in games has long been a sticking point around these parts.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, April 26, 2008, 06:31:31 AM
This is an interview from Gamasutra w/ Kev Levine of 2K Boston, in which he talks about the importance of narrative in gaming.

There are Bioshock SPOILERS in there, so if you ain't finished Bioshock yet, you might not wanna' read this just yet (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3636/ken_levine_on_bioshocks_narrative_.php?page=1)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, May 07, 2008, 07:59:46 PM
With my new video card installed this past weekend, I got myself back into finishing up my 2nd run through of Bioshock -- and been playing it all this past weekend and all this week.

Finished it tonite, got the good ending this time around. :)

After that, time for Bioshock to go. So, I used the Revoke Tool and revoked my current  "Activation" of the game successfully and then uninstalled the game.

Yay!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, May 12, 2008, 06:42:56 PM
Video interview w/ Ken Levine from GameSpot. (http://www.gamespot.com/video/0/6190146/videoplayerpop?&ont_override=13273)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, June 01, 2008, 05:46:00 AM
For those who don't have Bioshock PC yet, Best Buy has Bioshock PC on sale this week for $19.99.

WARNING: Bioshock PC comes w/ Securom Internet Edition protection and has an install limit, but at least allows you to revoke an install and get installs back (so you can put it on another PC, in the future).

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, June 19, 2008, 08:23:53 PM
INSTALL Limit removed completely from Bioshock PC. (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=296125#post296125)

Yes, you'll still need to activate the game and need the DVD to play -- but, now the game doesn't care about install counts any longer (b/c the count was kept server-side).

Quote from: 2K Elizabeth
Activation limits removed on BioShock for the PC

Good news! As promised, all activation restrictions, including install limits, have been removed from BioShock PC as of today. You don’t have to patch or install anything for this to go into effect for your copy of BioShock – it’s already done!

Enjoy your time in Rapture, and thank you for supporting BioShock and the 2K teams.

...

Our other methods of copy protection remain. You will still have to activate your copy, and you will still need to keep the disc in the drive. SecuROM has not been removed -- just the activation limits on number of installs and number of computers you can install BioShock on simultaneously.

As I promised that the activation limits would go away, I can promise that if we ever stop supporting BioShock in the ways you speak of, we will release a patch so that the game is still playable. I believe, as you seem to, that BioShock will be the kind of game we will want to revisit 5, 10, 15 or more years from now. I want my copy to be playable, just as you do, and so does 2K.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Friday, June 20, 2008, 12:06:47 AM
Cool coincidence! I just reinstalled the game yesterday! It was giving me a lot of trouble with the activation process though. Basically it wouldn't activate, preventing me from actually playing the game.

The 'auto-update' at the end of the installation is useless. It seemed to update but I think it actually did damage to the game exe (both times I reinstalled). I ended up having to break the auto-update and manually update to v1.1 via the full patch (I have a habit of storing patches on a backup drive). That got it working!

I personally think that auto-update at the end of the installation is a stupid idea. It doesn't even ask you if you'd like to update it just goes ahead and does it. Suppose I don't want to waste valuable time and bandwidth downloading something I already have?!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: idolminds on Friday, June 20, 2008, 12:24:53 AM
I think the update during install isn't so much an update but its downloading the last files needed to run the game. Anti-piracy measure. That doesn't do anything but annoy me.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, June 21, 2008, 05:19:32 AM
I'd rather do the patch manually, myself. That way I can keep the file, in case I need to reinstall the file if needed AND burn the patch file to disc -- so I have the patch for the future and stuff -- in case no site seems to be hosting the file sometime down the road and I decide to reinstall the game.

What I normally do is w/ these games that have these game cases, especially ones w/ the pole where you can easily place multiple CD's on the pole, I'll just put my Game back-up discs w/ patch files, wallpapers, extra DLC content, or whatever else they release on that back-up disc and shove it right underneath the game CD. Or the other thing I'll often do is if there's not much room, I'll stuff a disc-paper sleeve w/ that back-up disc inside of the game case w/ the case.

Auto-updates w/out asking permissions I find are annoying -- like STEAM games do and some of these other new games do. I would like to be asked first, before the thing wants to force the update. B/c hell, maybe I want to do something else now and will want to do the update later -- especially if the connection is not too good b/c too much web-traffic trying to get this update or whatever. Or maybe the file is big and I'll just say, "Hell, I'll do it another time..."
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, June 23, 2008, 01:46:52 PM
Bioshock's Lead Programmer, Chris Kline, spoke on why he think Bioshock should have failed.

Interesting stuff. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19146)

Quote
June 23, 2008

Paris GDC: 2K's Kline On Why BioShock Should Have Failed

Paris GDC: 2K's Kline On Why BioShock Should Have Failed At his Paris GDC session exploring the development of 2K's critical success BioShock, lead programmer Chris Kline started off by saying his main point would be that "BioShock should’ve failed."

"In fact," he continued, "it did fail a lot, over the course of time. A series of big mistakes and corrections and slipped ship dates, but all of these helped make it a good game.”

Initial Shock

In early 2002, realizing that the team needed to make a big budget title, then-Irrational Games decided: “Here was our idea: Let’s just make System Shock 2. This was easy because we’d already made System Shock 2. We knew it was a critical success, and we thought we knew all the things that kept it from being financially successful.”

“I said this was going to be about failure," said Kline, "and the very first failure was that we wanted to base this whole thing on System Shock 2.”

Irrational decided that the two main areas where the game needed to innovate were on narrative and AI -- specifically, an AI ecology that was not singularly focused on attacking the player -- but development abruptly stopped on the game at that point, for the next two years.
Wow, a 2 year break.
Crap, this game could've not even made it....

Quote
When they returned to the game, there was some concern about the fact that they were trying to sell to publishers a sequel to an unsuccessful game, so the developers "faked it," said Kline, by giving GameSpot an exclusive on the game alongside a planned System Shock 2 retrospective for its five year anniversary.
Interesting...

Quote
The design team’s core assumption was that Shock 2 was a near-perfect game design. And we could just fix a few flaws. So what did we keep? Resource scarcity, the customization of the character through different systems, and we wanted the player to be cautious about moving through the world,” Kline explained.
All of the things that make SS2 great.

Quote
Ecologies and Evolutions

Irrational went for the concept of life existing around you but without you, but found that the AI ecology - why the enemies would fight each other - made no sense. “The world needs to revolve around the player,” Kline said.

“Another mistake we made on the art side was focusing too much on the monster models," he continued. "The real problem at this time was that we didn’t know what the main focus of the visuals was. What we now know is that it’s not the monsters, but the city of Rapture.”

He continued by saying in designing the 'gatherers' -- what would become the Little Sisters but began as designs as varied as insects, a frog with a bottle, and a dog in a wheelchair -- nobody was focusing on what the end user experience was, and everyone was moving in different directions.
Interesting.

Quote
That changed for the E3 2006 demo, where everyone had to pull together and really make it work. “In order to show we could create a compelling user experience, we had to change how we were thinking about the game. We had to start thinking about what the player was really going to feel in this game,” Kline said.

Shoot For Success

Following the demo, though, he said that while it was getting critical acclaim, it wasn't actually gaining much interest from users, so they changed marketing to say that it was a shooter – and then found they had to prove it.

“What’s interesting is that even though it was the same game," Kline said, "when we presented it as a shooter people started getting more excited about it. Even the team.”
More or less, Bioshock turned out to me more of a shooter than anything. I relied on that both times through, probably more so than the "magic" abilities/spells.

Quote
“We were actually so focused on the big details that we actually forgot how important the little details are,” he said, so they changed the game to make it more exciting, but still found that there was a lot they weren’t paying attention to.

The harvest or save mechanics weren't implemented yet, the money versus Adam mechanics, how to encourage plasmid use, balancing, framerate, even the script -- "There were a lot of problems," Kline sighed.

In the end, though, he confessed, “Some people think that constantly messing up, and pushing dates isn’t a good way to make a game, but as far as I’m concerned it’s the only way to make a good game.”

Developers need to doubt everything and listen to everyone, Kline concluded. “Always remember that you might be totally screwing everything up.”
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, June 23, 2008, 02:30:45 PM
That was actually kind of interesting, but to be perfectly honest I think a large part of the game's mass success has to do with timing and the use of the new Unreal engine. Not to take away the  accomplishments of the developers (it's a great game in many aspects) but I think all the eye candy is what brought a lot of people in who otherwise wouldn't give a crap about anything to do with System Shock.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, June 28, 2008, 07:09:19 AM
That was actually kind of interesting, but to be perfectly honest I think a large part of the game's mass success has to do with timing and the use of the new Unreal engine. Not to take away the  accomplishments of the developers (it's a great game in many aspects) but I think all the eye candy is what brought a lot of people in who otherwise wouldn't give a crap about anything to do with System Shock.

That's definitely true -- it really showed what could be done w/ the Unreal 3 Engine technically. Not only that, but I think the Bioshock game was also artistically beautiful, as well -- that completed the graphics packaged, if you ask me.

I think what also helped bring gamers into this game was it a labeled as more so as a FPS than the hybrid SS2 was (FPS/RPG). Don't get me wrong, Bioshock still had the upgrading elements (Plasmids, Weapons, etc etc) often found in RPG's -- but not really to the extent that say SS2 had.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Ken Levine speaks on some stuff
Ken Levine (of 2K Boston aka Irrational Games) speaks on some things -- that he's working on his new game and responds to the rumors about him being tough to work for. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53931)

Quote
BioShock Creator Talks New 'Crazy Ambitious' Game, Levine 'Not Substantially' Involved in BioShock 2
by Chris Faylor Jul 30, 2008 12:05pm CST tags: BioShock 2, 2K Boston, 2K Australia, Ken Levine

Irrational Games co-founder and BioShock creator Ken Levine today began teasing details of his next project, which is separate from the 2K Marin-developed BioShock 2.

"It's going to be pretty crazy ambitious," he told videogaming247, adding that project is "not in the blue-sky period any more" and that the studio is "actually building design elements and building it out."

"It's important to us that whatever we do has the same impact on the gamer that BioShock did. And so, I think that the company's position on us and what we do is that we're going to be breaking down barriers and breaking down doors."

Rumors have long circulated that a revival of the UFO-centric X-COM action-strategy series is being developed at 2K Boston and 2K Australia, a collective formerly known as Irrational Games.

As for BioShock 2, Levine stated that he was "not substantially" involved in the sequel. Publisher Take-Two had previously confirmed his participation, but offered no details on his role. "I'm doing my thing and making my game," he said.

However, he did touch on rumors that he was difficult to work with and that this had caused many 2K Boston staffers to transfer to 2K Marin.

"It's not something I can respond to, there's no point in it," he responded when videogaming247 broached the subject. "Look at the BioShock credit list and see how true that rumor is. My personality? I don't know. Maybe I am an asshole."

EDIT, 8/4/2008:
Levine says Bioshock saved the FPS-RPG genre
Here's Levine saying that Bioshock saved the deep-story FPS/RPG genre. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=204430)

Quote
BioShock rescued shooters, says Levine
News by Rob Fahey

Today 09:36

2K's Ken Levine has told Eurogamer he reckons BioShock has rescued the shooter genre by opening up a brand new market.

"I can pretty much guarantee to you that if BioShock wasn't successful, there never would have been another game like this," Levine told us in an exclusive interview. "I don't even know how we convinced people to pay for BioShock. These games had never made any money - everybody told us when we were pitching BioShock, sounds like a great idea, you'll sell 150,000 units - next!"

Levine was responding to a question about the player response to BioShock - in particular, the criticism from some players that the game was less complex or challenging than they'd hoped. He doesn't agree with that assertion, and thinks hardcore fans of the genre should focus on the positives.

"Honestly, really deep down, we wanted to popularise this kind of gameplay that we've been attached to for so long," he explained. "If the first iteration of it was a tiny bit simpler than System Shock 2... Look, how many of these type of games do you think are going to be made now, compared to how many were going to be made before? It took us how many years to get this game green-lit?

"Now, future games, competitors' games, our games... We can build upon millions of people's knowledge of the genre. How many people had played these kind of games before? 300,000, 400,000 - maybe? Now millions of people, because of this game, have played this type of game."

Levine reckons this situation is similar to RTS games - arguably a relatively obscure genre which has become a bankable, solid performer thanks to a large audience familiar with its conventions and appeal.

"Go back and play Dune 2, and now look at them," he said. "They have build queues, all the complexity that you can have in games like Company of Heroes, with cover and stuff like that... It's because a system was popularised and people were willing to invest in it with confidence that there was going to be an audience.

"Before, as great as System Shock 2 and Deus Ex were, nobody bought them. We wanted to crack that. I think now, the sky's the limit for how deep these games can go."
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Friday, August 15, 2008, 10:14:36 AM
Ok, I'm fairly sure a few of you will get a laugh out of this.  I caught this game on clearance for 25 bucks yesterday and decided to give it another go.  I've really gone through so far and tried to see what the developer wanted to accomplish with this game.  I still think the game has some significant shortfalls (mainly based around the simplicity and repetition of the combat), but being about a year removed from the release of the game (and the hype) I'm actually enjoying the game for what it is rather than for what I expected/wanted.  So far it's been a better experience.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: PyroMenace on Friday, August 15, 2008, 08:37:24 PM
Im not sure what you mean by the combat being repetitious since I think its more dynamic than most games, but Im glad your finally getting into it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Friday, August 15, 2008, 09:56:36 PM
I'm glad too.  It was probably wise to just wait and step back from the hype.  As much as I did really love the game, I agree that the hype machine was in full force prior to release, and it was overkill.  For me, the game did manage to mostly live up to it, but it was still overkill.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 05:38:00 AM
I thought the Bioshock combat with the switching b/t magic and weapons was awesome.

If you were looking for a shooter here, wrong game. Bioshock's a mix of both -- and I thought it did BOTH very well in this first-person action genre (with some RPG elements).

Bioshock turned out great. One of my fav's of all time.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 09:54:11 AM
Im not sure what you mean by the combat being repetitious since I think its more dynamic than most games, but Im glad your finally getting into it.

I feel that way partially due to the inherent lack of variety in the enemies I face.  I mean realistically I've only faced 5 types thus-far.  The gun toting splicer, spider splicer, regular splicer, bouncer big daddy, and the other big daddy.  Realistically you have two types of enemies with various weapons. 

Also, even though I've collected tons of plasmids, shock + wrench is still the best way to dispatch splicers.  I have other methods at my disposal, but why use them when they're not as effective and in some cases expend more eve?

The game may very well open up later on, but so far that's been my experience with the combat.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:00:20 AM
Yeah, so your complaint is not about the actual combat itself.

It's about the lack of variety of enemies.
Point taken.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:03:00 AM
Yeah, so your complaint is not about the actual combat itself.

It's about the lack of variety of enemies.
Point taken.



Well, I think the shock+wrench complaint lies more in the combat department, but lack of variety is definitely the larger complaint
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:07:27 AM
Well, I think the shock+wrench complaint lies more in the combat department, but lack of variety is definitely the larger complaint
I think as the game gets along further and further, you'll have more abilities and combos to pull off for weapons and magic, which is really when the game can get quite dynamic in combat. Not only that, but you'll get more and more upgrading for weapons and other things, once you move along.

But yeah, I wish the game had more enemy types, too. Not a huge complaint for me, since the AI can be quite nasty, actually -- especially on the harder difficulties.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:42:42 AM
I dunno'.  In any military shooter, what variety is there?  You kill dudes with guns.  I mean, in any game that's at all realistic, you kill people with guns.  Or maybe people with knives.  I mean, there's not a lot else to go on unless you start adding monsters or whatever to the mix.  They probably could have added a few more enemy types to the game, but I really don't think it would have made a ton of difference.  It would have just been another dude with another gun/plasmid/spell/whatever.  Granted, a few more wouldn't have hurt, if only for the *mental* effects of having variety, mechanical effects aside, but it still didn't bother me all that much.

I don't agree that the shock+wrench combo is the best, though.  Sure, it's great if you get all the upgrades for those, plus all the others that go well with it.  Like the armor upgrades and the defensive shock upgrades.  But if you sit down and work out some other builds, there are plenty of options which are just as effective, including some that combo better with guns instead of the wrench, and others that work much better for larger groups, and others that work better against groups of different kinds of enemies.  I've played through the game a number of times now, and I think there's plenty on the table in that regard.  Sometimes the combinations just aren't as obvious since the game doesn't spell any of them out for you other than the initial shock+wrench combo, which I think was a mistake... they shouldn't have put "hints" anywhere in the game about plasmid use, not even in the beginning for tutorial purposes.  We pander to people too fucking much these days, and those (shock+wrench, using shock on water, lighting oil on fire, etc.) should have been discovered by the player, not dropped in their lap.  But seriously, there are a lot of other options available if you get creative.  Toward the end of my last game, I didn't even fire weapons at all.  My setup was more or less entirely defensive with a few alternative options in case things went south.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:57:06 AM
Hopefully the game will open up for me.  I just picked up the camera, so I'm admittedly not too far along.  I really do hope it fleshes out some more.  The plasmid idea is very nifty.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 11:24:12 AM
Well, yeah, you aren't too far in.  It does open up more than where you're at.  You'll get more combat options and there's at least one new enemy type coming.  Just try to think outside the box as much as you can, and get creative with what skills you pair together.  And don't worry about conserving Eve too much.  I mean, just have fun with it and throw caution to the wind.  I find the game more enjoyable that way.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 12:25:32 PM
Shock is good in the early going.  Later, you'll discover much better combinations of plasmids+attacks, and later still, you'll absolutely need them.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Sunday, August 17, 2008, 12:47:43 PM
Well, a day later and I've made it to the big twist in the game.  Kinda saw it coming, but it was handled pretty well.  Got tons more plasmids now.  Still using just a select few though.  Kinda sucks that you're limited in Adam.  I'd very much like to try out everything.  I'm hoping that a second playthrough lets you keep your accumulated plasmids and slots.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Sunday, August 17, 2008, 04:41:34 PM
Well, I just finished the game.  Suffice to say that I found it enjoyable (considering I beat it in less than 2 days).  Overall I agree that I initially underestimated the game.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 17, 2008, 04:55:33 PM
It's just too bad the lost boss was so lame.  I think that was my biggest complaint on the whole.  Glad you enjoyed it, though.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Sunday, August 17, 2008, 05:09:09 PM
A bit out of place, i'll agree.  The ending was kind of lame as well.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Sunday, August 17, 2008, 05:38:00 PM
I didn't really think it was bad... there just wasn't much of it.  I got the "good" ending, and the essence of it felt appropriate to me, but it wasn't quite the satisfying send-off it should have been.  Still, I don't think I'd have been complaining about it at all had the boss fight been slightly more in line with the rest of the experience.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Monday, August 18, 2008, 01:35:52 PM
I've been digesting my experience with Bioshock all day.  The best way I can describe it is that the whole is much greater than the sum of its parts.  Rapture as a setting was a stroke of genius.  I repeatedly kept thinking throughout that I really would have liked to have seen rapture in its splendor before it all went to hell.  Maybe the sequel will provide that.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, August 18, 2008, 05:02:57 PM
That's exactly what I thought after playing, too.  I think I'd really enjoy an adventure game or some such set in a fully-functional Rapture, though obviously that will never happen in a thousand years.  But yeah, I'd love to just spend a day or two there with the place intact.  That would be fascinating.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, August 18, 2008, 06:30:23 PM
That's exactly what I thought after playing, too.  I think I'd really enjoy an adventure game or some such set in a fully-functional Rapture, though obviously that will never happen in a thousand years.  But yeah, I'd love to just spend a day or two there with the place intact.  That would be fascinating.

That does sound very interesting, actually...
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Monday, September 01, 2008, 05:25:08 AM
Levine in his keynote address at PAX 2008 basically talked about his life, growing up as a geek. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6197038.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6197038)

Quote
2K Boston head talks about growing up geeky and coming to terms with his nerdy nature during packed Penny Arcade Expo keynote.

SEATTLE, Washington--The 2008 Penny Arcade Expo conference program wasted no time in hitting top speed, as organizers scheduled the Ken Levine keynote address on the first afternoon of the three-day gaming convention. The creative director of 2K Boston and public face of BioShock has been making the convention rounds since the sci-fi first-person shooter shipped last year, keynoting the Develop Conference in the UK earlier this year and telling a packed crowd of his peers how to get audiences to care about their stupid stories in a Game Developers Conference address.

Unlike those events, the crowd for Levine's address was filled with the enthusiastic open-to-the-public PAX brand of rank-and-file gamers. Attendees sported Half-Life headcrab hats proudly as they filed into the cavernous Washington State Convention Center's main theatre. Even the pre-presentation buzz was different, as the crowd chit-chat was accompanied by commercials for Brawndo (The Thirst Mutilator), the Entertainment Consumers Association, and a variety of new and upcoming games.

Levine took the stage half an hour into his one-hour keynote slot, launching straight into his presentation as he talked about growing up a nerd.

"When my parents rolled my character, they didn't get any 18s," Levine joked.

In the late '70s, Levine noticed the kids around him in the seventh grade were into hockey, Rush, drug experimentation, and even gotten to second base. Meanwhile, he was into Spider-Man comics. While the other kids were into Lennon and McCartney, he was into Claremont and Byrne.

Regaling the crowd with is love for comics, Levine said he most appreciated the way the illustrated books dealt with the adult world. Spider-Man had to make ends meet. Iron Man had to deal with alcoholism. The X-Men faced up to racism. Despite the array of issues our there, one took precedence in Levine's mind: women.

"In short, I wanted to **** the Scarlet Witch," Levine said, explaining the intersection of his two primary pre-teen interests.

Levine talked a bit about his nerdly shame, noting the deepening ostracism as he got into games with an Atari 2600 and Dungeons & Dragons.

"I didn't want to like the **** I liked," Levine said, saying he wanted to fit in, to like sports, smoke cigarettes, and be normal.

By the time he got to high school, he said he had given up and kept his nerdy nature a secret. And then one day he overheard some kids on the bus talking openly about saving throws, Owlbears, and other such nerdy D&D fare with no negative repercussions.

Levine hooked up with the kids for a bit of role-playing one night, and found a group of about 10 kids that were part of a group. Through that group, he got into Dr. Who, The Prisoner, Monty Python, and still more geek reference points. Levine said after 14 years of searching, he'd finally found his tribe.

By 1982, Levine said things had started to change. There were new faces in the regular adventuring party. Female faces. Levine warned that the days of any D&D group are numbered when members start "inappropriately buffing" or doling out primo loot drops to undeserving members named Heather, Kelly, or Pam.

With no girlfriend of his own, Levine's surprise and confusion gave way to a sense of betrayal. He understands now that his friends were just ahead of him on the road to adulthood and college.

With the tribe petering out, Levine needed something where he could put his improvisation skills to use. He found the drama club, "bad Shakespeare, 'Greased Lightning,' and jazz hands."

After college, Levine said his life was taking off. He was a writer sharing an apartment with Marisa Tomei's brother, one of the Goonies, and the guy from Leprechaun 2. He was also trying to pitch an ultra-violent vampire movie. While the vampire movie didn't make the cut, he was offered a gig writing a frothy romantic comedy.

The new crowd Levine was hanging with thought "fantasy role-playing" was something done with a very expensive prostitute, and that Dr. Who was their kid's ophthalmologist. Still wanting to leave behind his nerdy nature, Levine threw himself into the romantic comedy project.

"And then, in what should be a surprise to nobody, my romantic comedy ended up sucking," Levine said.

He was out of a screenwriter gig and he bounced around doing odd jobs for the next decade, all supporting his gaming habit. Levine name-checked Metroid, Zelda, Herzog Zwei, and Ultima Underworld, saying he'd go home every night and numb himself with games like a lush with a flask.

Eventually, Levine realized that people got paid to make games. He picked up a copy of the now-defunct Next-Gen magazine and found an ad listing for a game designer at Looking Glass Studios. He applied, and a little over a month later, he was on his way to Boston.

Upon arriving, Levine expected a cubicle farm with salarymen working a 9-to-5. What he actually witnessed was a group of gamers yelling over Soulcalibur and Magic: The Gathering, people making popcorn for a screening of Bladerunner, more than a dozen happy nerds--his new tribe.

"After so many years of running from the very things I loved, it's amazing for a guy like me to come here and see what Gabe and Tycho and the volunteers have built here," Levine said. "We're united by a common element...What brings us all together at PAX is we're a giant bunch of f****** nerds."

Levine wrapped up by telling the crowd to enjoy PAX, and thanking them for welcoming him into their tribe.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, October 16, 2008, 09:54:28 AM
Bioshock 2 trailer unlocks after beating PS3 version (http://www.giantbomb.com/news/your-first-glimpse-of-bioshock-2-sea-of-dreams/380/)?  Or something like that.  The video is neat, at any rate!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:56:22 AM
That works well at an emotional level, but I'm not sure why.  It shows next to nothing.  Is it the song?  The girl bringing up memories of the first game?  The foreboding?  Now I need to find a direct recording of that. 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Thursday, October 16, 2008, 01:39:44 PM
That works well at an emotional level, but I'm not sure why.  It shows next to nothing.  Is it the song?  The girl bringing up memories of the first game?  The foreboding?
All of the above.

Plus, she's holding a Big Daddy doll.

Quote
Now I need to find a direct recording of that. 
Plus, with Rapture it looks like turning into what looks to be graveyards -- and with the girl standing on the beach at the ocean, I think she might be one of the survivors (or maybe only survivors) of Rapture?

I don't know where this might be headed, but for a teaser trailer, that was pretty cool.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Friday, October 17, 2008, 01:57:54 PM
2K Marin's very own Charles Shechbeck confirms that Bioshock 2 will be both a prequel and sequel to the original Bioshock game. (http://www.destructoid.com/rapturous-confusion-bioshock-2-is-called-sequel-and-prequel--108150.phtml)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Friday, October 17, 2008, 02:22:00 PM
The Godfather II!!!!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 07:33:51 AM
So like... it'll have events from before and events from after is the idea?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 07:37:47 AM
That's what I am taking from this... kinda like the second godfather.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 07:41:10 AM
Heh, never seen any of the Godfather films.  I know, I know, what's wrong with me, etc.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 10:07:18 AM
Can you even socialize in this country if you're not well acquainted with the Godfather lore?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 10:23:45 AM
Why do you think I'm a shut-in?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 05:47:04 AM
2K Marin's very own Charles Shechbeck confirms that Bioshock 2 will be both a prequel and sequel to the original Bioshock game. (http://www.destructoid.com/rapturous-confusion-bioshock-2-is-called-sequel-and-prequel--108150.phtml)

Cool.

And to Que's condition of a Godfather-lore-deficiency:

It's ok man. I've never actually watched Psycho but I can still relate to some of the references. In time you will learn to adapt and spot the references regardless whether or not you actually watched it.

Actually you're original guess was pretty accurate :)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 06:17:02 AM
I only seen the first Godfather flick, myself. And yes, it's must-see stuff.

I really loved Bioshock. I really don't know if the original game can be topped, when it comes the entire storyline, depth, and double-meaning (on the "illusion" of non-linearity and also narrative being very important) that this game had going on.

I was looking forward to Bioshock 2 anyways...but I'm even more interested in it now since Bioshock 2 is going to be very interesting I think, being both a prequel and sequel to the original game. I actually could've waited to see what 2K Marin was up to, but suddenly knowing this tidbit and after seeing the new Bioshock 2 trailer, I can't wait to see what 2K Marin's up to now.



Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 11:01:08 AM
Well considering that you find it to be must-see stuff, and the second is better, how come you haven't seen it? :P
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: scottws on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 12:16:13 PM
Yeah, that struck me as odd as well.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 12:38:22 PM
Well considering that you find it to be must-see stuff, and the second is better, how come you haven't seen it? :P
I found the original Godfather to be must-see stuff, yes.

About not getting around to GF2 -- ummm, laziness?  :o
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 04:02:15 PM
Bioshock for the PS3 will get Exclusive DLC on November 20th.
No clue for PS3 gamers, on if it'll be free-to-download or if you will have to buy it. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3170757)

Quote
Exclusive PS3 BioShock DLC Releasing on November 20
Self-contained "Challenge Rooms" to be available for download next month.
By Kris Pigna, 10/19/2008

Sure, by the time BioShock releases on the PlayStation 3 this Tuesday, Xbox 360 and PC gamers will have been able to play it for 14 months. But don't fret, Sony fans -- 2K Games is giving you something special for your patience. They've announced that a DLC pack with new gameplay exclusive to the PS3 version will be released on November 20.

The DLC pack will add new "Challenge Rooms" for players to tackle, which will be self-contained areas that require you to use everything you've learned in the main game to clear a series of puzzles (kind of sounds like the BioShock version of Portal, in a way). No pricing details were given, so it's unclear how much people will have to pay to add the extra content to their games. Hopefully it won't cost too much... considering this DLC is coming only a month after the game's release, it probably won't go down well with consumers if they have to pay a premium price for features that could, in theory, have been included in the game to begin with.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Monday, October 20, 2008, 07:12:54 AM
It's been a few months since my play through of Bioshock, and I still get warm fuzzies thinking about it.  I rarely ever feel that I'm wrong with an initial judgment of a game, but I very much was with this game.  I'll definitely play through it again.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: iPPi on Monday, October 20, 2008, 07:39:50 AM
My experience with Bioshock was interesting to say the least.

When the demo was first released for the Xbox, I tried it and I loved it, so on the first day I bought it.  However, I think I put like 3-4 hours into it before I just stopped playing it for about 8-10 months because I found it somewhat boring.  The game starts off quite slow and the story arc near the start was very disappointing to me.  Also, the early missions, such as collecting the items to make that serum (I forget the name) were monotonous objectives. 

Luckily, I did decide to push ahead and I finally got the storyline to progress and the game really started to pick up.  Once it did, followed with the twist, I finished it shortly after and I loved it.

It is most definitely a great game, though early on I was quite disappointed with it.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, October 20, 2008, 12:13:49 PM
Like I've stated before, while I really liked Bioshock, I thought its action elements were above average, and not quite at the level of excellence as its narrative. Also, despite what I say next, I still really enjoyed the game.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD:

Also, I agree with iPPi, in terms of a slow start. While the initial awe inspiring bits were excellent, I found the pacing off. Also, until the twist, I felt absolutely nothing for the protagonist. And while many reviewers felt that the game should have ended after the twist, my feelings were the exact opposite, in that I fell more compelled to play after the golf clubbing event.

I guess it was because the twist made the protagonist feel real to me, and I suddenly felt reason to go forward.

While rapture was a fantastically interesting and gorgeous place to explore, I felt aimless and purposeless, despite looking for the family of my would be rescuer. I guess it was because I felt like the character I was controlling was a bit of a drone.

In my opinion, until the twist, the game should have cut with a lot more flashbacks of the protagonist's past. Not only would that made gamers empathize more with the game's lead character, but the twist would have had far greater impact than it had had.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 10:22:01 PM
Haven't read this thread yet, since I just bought the game for PS3, but I'm loving this so far. 6 hours straight and I can't stop.

I started on the hardest difficulty and really got my ass kicked for hours 2-4, but I've developed a fairly solid strategy lately and I haven't died hardly at all. My only real complaint thus far is the accuracy of the weapons. They aren't accurate at all (at least the pistol and machine gun - of course the shotgun is accurate as it's only a close-up weapon) and I can't really tell if aiming down the sight improves accuracy at all. I don't think it does, which is a shame. I often come up behind someone at a distance and aim at the head only to have the gun miss because it's entirely inaccurate. Maybe auto aim helps in this regard but I hate enabling it.

Also, as far as the storyline goes, why the hell was there a radio in the capsule with a guy at the other end (at the beginning)? It seemed kind of arbitrary.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 10:24:32 PM
Yeah, the weapons suck for the most part, but it kind of works out because it makes people find other ways of killing motherfuckers.  For me that basically consisted of shocking and then beating everyone within sight.

As for the storyline, I think you just need to get farther.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 10:29:39 PM
My problem with simply beating everyone with the pipe is that you have to dodge them, which requires lots of quick reflexes and whatnot. And, understandably, in order to increase the entertainment from the game, I've had a beer or two. So I've found that blasting the motherfuckers is a much better alternative.

Also, I assume that the guy on the other end of the radio turns out to be evil, since he wanted me to kill the Little Sisters. I'm assuming that develops. I just hope they tell me why there was a motherfucking radio just sitting there at the beginning with a guy at the other end.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 11:06:09 PM
Why do you assume he's sitting at the other end?  Radio signals are kind of... portable.  If they can mutate themselves, they can probably figure out how to make a walkie-talkie.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 11:18:55 PM
Well, I didn't mean sitting literally. But maybe I'm being too critical.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 11:23:46 PM
I just booted this bitch up again.  Yeah, more inaccurate than I remember.  I'm still going with the pipe and occasionally breaking out guns.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 11:31:24 PM
Go on the hardest difficulty and try the pipe. It's freakin hard. You can manage one-on-one, but once you get a few guys around, not to mention a big daddy, it's really difficult.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 11:45:18 PM
Ok, don't even try the pipe on a Big Daddy and if you're getting swarmed switch that motherfucker over to the plasmids.  A few enemies though, that's melee territory.  Conserve ammo. 
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 03:12:55 AM
If I've got a lot of splicers around and a Big Daddy I usually put the "Hypnotize Big Daddy" plasmid to some use. Big Daddy goes frickin' insane wailing on those splicers!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 06:39:42 AM
I don't remember having any problem with accuracy on the guns at all.  Maybe it's just because you're using a controller so you notice it more?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 03:04:05 PM
I can say that the DS3 is much less conducive to accurate FPS controls than the 360 pad.  It's almost like the sticks have too much range
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 05:09:05 PM
Really?  I haven't noticed any differences at all playing through The Darkness with both, or any problems with Dead Space (no comparison there, but the control actually feels superior to most first/third person action games I've played on consoles).
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: K-man on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 05:24:16 PM
Eh, it's a personal observation.  I just personally find the 360 pad better for FPS (and pretty much everything else)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 05:26:28 PM
Heh, I suppose we can stop it there.  I can't remember what thread it was in, but I do believe my belief in the superiority of the PS3 controller is well documented, as are the opinions (which outweigh mine) that the 360 pad is better.  Still, I haven't noticed any difference in anything I've tried, and I suspect whatever issue he's having is with the game, not the controller.  He seems to be saying that the guns themselves aren't accurate, not that he's having trouble aiming them.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 06:13:03 PM
Heh, I suppose we can stop it there.  I can't remember what thread it was in, but I do believe my belief in the superiority of the PS3 controller is well documented, as are the opinions (which outweigh mine) that the 360 pad is better.  Still, I haven't noticed any difference in anything I've tried, and I suspect whatever issue he's having is with the game, not the controller.  He seems to be saying that the guns themselves aren't accurate, not that he's having trouble aiming them.
I definitely preferred the Xbox gamepad over the PS2's Dualshock 2.. The subtle changes in the SIXAXIS and Dualshock 3 have won me over though. I like its triggers, button sensitivities, and the d-pad. Special features aside (i.e. SIXAXIS motion sensing) I feel it's more comfortable and superior to the X360 pad.

In terms of the analog sticks, I feel I have a wider angle of motion with the SIXAXIS over the X360 pad and slightly less resistance.

The standard SIXAXIS is lighter than the Dualshock 3, I sometimes prefer it.

I tried the Bioshock demo on PS3 and I felt the controls were alright, though my default stance on mouse over gamepad remains.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 08:40:08 PM
He seems to be saying that the guns themselves aren't accurate, not that he's having trouble aiming them.

Yeah, that's about right. I aim at the head and the bullets hit elsewhere. But It's just a matter of getting used to it, I guess.

As for the controllers, I haven't noticed a problem and I've played tons of FPS games on the system. And just for the record, I also think that the Dualshock 3 > 360 controller.

Also, fuck SIXAXIS and every game that uses it. I hate that bullshit.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 11:42:57 PM
Yeah, I kind of noticed it the other night too.  In retrospect I don't know if they're all that inaccurate or if they just don't do much damage, but something feels off.  Don't get me wrong, it doesn't diminish from the game, but it just seems almost...floaty?  That might not be the right word, but coming in after COD 4, Painkiller, and other games it kind of has a different feel when shooting shit.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, October 23, 2008, 03:54:58 AM
Also, fuck SIXAXIS and every game that uses it. I hate that bullshit.
So far the only game I actually like the SIXAXIS motion in is Folklore. It's a very simple implementation but I think it was done just right. It's only used when you're trying to absorb a Folk's id (suck a baddy's soul). I didn't mind it much in Heavenly Sword either as it was only used to manually guide thrown objects or in very few combat recovery situations.

You know what I don't care for? Vibration. I like the idea of the game attempting to physically interact with me but I can totally do without the vibration. A game could go entirely without and I'd never notice unless someone poited it out to me.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, October 23, 2008, 06:59:22 AM
Yeah, I've come to realize I actually don't like vibration much.  I haven't bothered to get a DS3 for that reason.  It basically just annoys me and distracts me, and I feel much more immersed without it.  It can be cool when done right, but it's too often a throwaway feature, and even when it's cool it isn't that cool.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, October 23, 2008, 07:06:14 AM
Yeah, I've come to realize I actually don't like vibration much.  I haven't bothered to get a DS3 for that reason.  It basically just annoys me and distracts me, and I feel much more immersed without it.  It can be cool when done right, but it's too often a throwaway feature, and even when it's cool it isn't that cool.
I think the only game I liked the vibration in is MGS4 and even then not all the time, just in the cinematic set ups.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Thursday, October 23, 2008, 02:28:52 PM
I'm having difficulty killing the big daddies without dying. Even with two health upgrades and an armor upgrade, they still kill me in two hits. I inevitably die a couple of times when fighting one in close quarters. Shock + shotgun works well until I run out of ammo, and then it's run-and-gun with the rest of the weapons. Anyone got any tips on killing these guys?
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Thursday, October 23, 2008, 02:46:51 PM
I'm having difficulty killing the big daddies without dying. Even with two health upgrades and an armor upgrade, they still kill me in two hits. I inevitably die a couple of times when fighting one in close quarters. Shock + shotgun works well until I run out of ammo, and then it's run-and-gun with the rest of the weapons. Anyone got any tips on killing these guys?
Shock & shotgun is the ebst way I think. When he dashes at you try strafing out of the way, it'll buy you a few secs to reload or land a few more hits on him. They're tough bastards. With no ammo I tried shock and wrench (be sure to have the Wrench-Jockey plasmid), it took longer and I had to evade very quickly after hitting him.

If you're lucky enough and you're fighting one in a high security area, bug a camera so when it spots him a couple of drones will come out and occupy him.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Thursday, October 23, 2008, 05:47:26 PM
Welcome to the circus of vaaalues!

Thanks for the tips. I can pretty easily handle the big daddies now - a few new weapons and some upgrades and they aren't too bad.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Thursday, October 23, 2008, 06:26:00 PM
My personal favorite is getting a big item that I can pick up with telekinesis, sticking it with as many of the prox mines as I've got, then chucking said object at the big daddy for one giant explosion of ultra-hurt.  I also enjoy setting up elaborate runs of traps in hallways and such, where I know how to run through them without setting anything off, but the daddy will just crash into everything as he plows through and hurt himself.

There are some other creative ways, too, but finding them for yourself is half the fun!
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, October 24, 2008, 01:07:54 AM
Electric gel.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Friday, October 24, 2008, 02:10:01 AM
Man, just reading about Que's trap-setting I realized Bioshock woulda been fun in multiplayer.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, October 24, 2008, 11:14:16 AM
That works well at an emotional level, but I'm not sure why.  It shows next to nothing.  Is it the song?  The girl bringing up memories of the first game?  The foreboding?  Now I need to find a direct recording of that.

Finally . . . (http://www.viddler.com/explore/Joystiq/videos/266/78.984)

Edit:  Better link for downloading (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41898.html)

Edit 2: Best link for downloading (http://www.bigdownload.com/games/bioshock-2-sea-of-dreams/pc/bioshock-2-sea-of-dreams-teaser-trailer-hd/)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Xessive on Friday, October 24, 2008, 01:54:20 PM
Cool. Very enticing teaser!

I wonder if Bioshock 2 will be a prequel, set in the height of a populated and thriving Rapture.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Cobra951 on Friday, October 24, 2008, 03:43:14 PM
The teaser seems to nix that idea, compelling though it may be.  That's a grown-up little sister, making the scene an event following the first story by perhaps a decade.  Of course, in sci-fi, anything is possible.  (Once you can travel in time and revive people with a mixture of fantasy and fantastic science, no last-minute plot change is out of reach.  :))
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Saturday, October 25, 2008, 09:39:45 PM
One minor thing that I hope they change: the "little sisters in this level" tally on the start menu should be little sisters left on this level. It just makes more sense that way.

But I guess that's a good thing if that's my only real gripe so far.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Saturday, October 25, 2008, 10:24:47 PM
Well, that isn't really true though, because it doesn't actually remove any of the icons.  It leaves them and changes them after you "get" one of the sisters.
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Ghandi on Saturday, October 25, 2008, 10:47:52 PM
Oh, heh. I didn't notice that. I guess I always looked either before or after I'd gotten them all and didn't notice it changed. Ignore my previous statement. Continue on. ;)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 04:59:16 PM
Ken Levine interview from Forbes.com (http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/03/ken-levine-bioshock-tech-personal-cx_mji_1203levine.html?partner=yahootix)
Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: MysterD on Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 06:29:34 PM
Something artbook nuts and Bioshock fans might wanna hear...

New Bioshock Artbook - Breaking The Mold: Developer's Edition coming that'll be over 170 pages long (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57709)

Quote
BioShock Artbook Version 2.0 Now On Sale
by Nick Breckon Mar 17, 2009 7:32pm CST tags: BioShock

2K Games community manager Elizabeth Tobey today revealed an impressive special edition of the BioShock art book, now available for preorder on the Take-Two store.

Titled "Breaking the Mold: Developer's Edition," the book offers 174 pages of concept art and developer commentary on the making of the acclaimed shooter.

Title: Re: The Official BioShock thread.
Post by: Quemaqua on Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 08:40:28 PM
Hell yes.  I love art books so bad.