Topic: The DRM and Bioshock threads reminded me of something

[idolminds]

Bioshock was released 2 and a half years ago. While some people say they removed the games DRM, they haven't.

It used to be limited to 5 installs. That limit is gone, but that DRM isn't. The server just allows unlimited installs, but its still being checked. But the big issue is that the content on the disc itself is not playable. The installer has to download the games main executable (I should know, its why I never bothered to reinstall the game...takes like an hour and a half). This was ok to stop day 0 piracy, but we're almost 3 years past that, pirate versions can be had for anyone that wants it.

Wheres the updated installer? The one I can use that has the games exe built in so it can just install the rest from the disc and let me play? Its something that MUST be released eventually or the hard copies of the game will eventually becomes useless. Isn't 2.5 years a long enough time to wait? Because at this point I expect the company wont care enough to do it.

Maybe they'll still surprise us, but I keep this in mind when Ubisoft and Valve say "Oh yeah, if anything happens we'll release a patch that will fix everything! Trust us!" Go ahead and read the EULA sometime, they don't say shit about this. They'll probably say the exact opposite.

[MysterD]

Yeah, I'll believe a DRM-removal check gets released when I see it.

I'm sure if EA, 2K, Valve, or anybody else doesn't release a DRM-check removal, still a good chance hackers, crackers, and pirates probably already have beat them to the punch...

[scottws]

Maybe they'll still surprise us, but I keep this in mind when Ubisoft and Valve say "Oh yeah, if anything happens we'll release a patch that will fix everything! Trust us!" Go ahead and read the EULA sometime, they don't say shit about this. They'll probably say the exact opposite.

Oh completely.  Consider this.  If Ubisoft and Valve and EA and Take Two go away, it's probably because their business has failed.  So while their business is failing they are going to allocate resources to work on removing or bypassing the DRM in all their past games?  Unlikely.

[iPPi]

The thing is old stuff rarely gets revisited by the developers and publishers.  They attempted to protect their investment at the start with retarded DRM, and once that's passed, why waste more man hours to remove that DRM?  The game is dirt cheap anyway and developers probably don't get much money from the sale of the game anymore that they cannot justify spending time and money to work on removing the DRM when they can focus on their new games.

Likewise, unless the game garners a significant fanbase and legacy, most people aren't going to be replaying it so that adds to the lack of incentive to spend more time on the old product.

I'm sure it's on the company's list of things to do... but it's probably near the bottom of the list.

[Pugnate]

What the hell? Bioshock came out 2.5 years ago? Wow, time really passes. It almost seems like yesterday.

[Cobra951]

Perfect cross-reference to the AC2 DRM, idol.

[idolminds]

The thing is old stuff rarely gets revisited by the developers and publishers.  They attempted to protect their investment at the start with retarded DRM, and once that's passed, why waste more man hours to remove that DRM?  The game is dirt cheap anyway and developers probably don't get much money from the sale of the game anymore that they cannot justify spending time and money to work on removing the DRM when they can focus on their new games.

Likewise, unless the game garners a significant fanbase and legacy, most people aren't going to be replaying it so that adds to the lack of incentive to spend more time on the old product.

Well they do have a sequel coming out here, would seem like the perfect time for people to be replaying the original.

But about your first point, that actually is the problem. Sure the game is cheap now. Hell, I personally bought it for $5 the Black Friday after it came out. But without an updated installer file eventually it won't matter, none of those copies will work.

Another point...they still have to keep those servers running and let people download the executable. With as cheap as the game is, thats got to cost them money, right? Not to mention every person that reinstalls. In the long run getting that installer out would actually save them money.

[MysterD]

Likewise, unless the game garners a significant fanbase and legacy, most people aren't going to be replaying it so that adds to the lack of incentive to spend more time on the old product.

If a game does get a legacy of some kind, hopefully it'll wind up on GOG or some other distribution channel (Steam, Impulse) to work on modern systems.

Or maybe the game company themselves will sell you a new game in the series for full price - but also include the old game(s) remastered to install and run on new systems.

You never know with these companies...

Though, it's probably gonna come down to - you might have to re-buy the game for a few dollars, again...

[Ghandi]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/03/eas-mouthpiece-foiled-by-command-and-conquer-drm.ars

[MysterD]

Blizzard thinks DRM is a "losing battle."

Meanwhile, Namco thinks the "Online-All-The-Time" Ubisoft DRM is a "good strategy."

[Pugnate]

Well they do have a sequel coming out here, would seem like the perfect time for people to be replaying the original.

But about your first point, that actually is the problem. Sure the game is cheap now. Hell, I personally bought it for $5 the Black Friday after it came out. But without an updated installer file eventually it won't matter, none of those copies will work.

Another point...they still have to keep those servers running and let people download the executable. With as cheap as the game is, thats got to cost them money, right? Not to mention every person that reinstalls. In the long run getting that installer out would actually save them money.

Hmmm... that's a good point. It is possibly more cost effective for them to release a patch that forgoes the online check than running those servers.

Then again, they HAVE to keep those servers running, because retail copies won't come with the patches.

[MysterD]

Analyst Nicholas Lovell (of Gamesbrief.com) says the Ubisoft DRM "benefits pirates".

   
Friday 28-May-2010 3:29 PM
Top analyst says 'DRM is too draconian'
Digital Rights Management is "too draconian" and "pirates now have a better experience than legitimate consumers" as a result.

Those are the words of top analyst Nicholas Lovell, founder of Gamesbrief.com, who told PC Zone, "It seems crazy to me that Ubisoft didn't emulate Steam, which by some estimates has more than half the market, and instead went for their own, draconian system."

"There is no doubt in my mind that pirates now have a better experience than legitimate consumers," he continued.

"Publishers spend a ton of money on promoting its games. So there are ways to see piracy as the start of a relationship with a future consumer, not theft."

When asked about alternatives, Lovell said, "Give the whole game away entirely for free, make it small and charge for DLC."

"Slash the marketing budget and rely on pirated copies to spread the word about how good your game is, then charge for additional elements."

The DRM issue has split the gaming industry, with Namco Bandai recently vouching for Ubisoft saying that its approach to DRM is the best solution at this moment in time.

Only one problem w/ give the game away and charge for DLC solution - I bet the torrents are loaded w/ DLC content that has NO DRM wrapped around it.

EDIT:
And well, here's Pachter's thoughts...

On the other had there's outspoken Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter, who offers thoughts on the topic in his Pach-Attack videocast (thanks VG247), saying he likes the system, and if your opinion differs from his, you are a thief:
"I think anything a publisher does to make sure you don’t rip off their games if their right, and I think that people who steal should be in jail. I welcome the flamer comments on this one; if you think that’s right good for you; we have no interest in your business since you don’t pay for stuff anyway."

And as long as companies like UbiSoft have their horrible DRM wrapped around their games, I won't buy their games until they are MUCH-MUCH cheaper and/or The DRM's removed (officially or unofficially)...

[gpw11]

Only one problem w/ give the game away and charge for DLC solution - I bet the torrents are loaded w/ DLC content that has NO DRM wrapped around it.

There's also the other problem of the whole idea being retarded.

[Xessive]

Well, it's not exactly a flawed idea. It's already in place with "free-to-play" online games. The business model has claimed some noteworthy success in recent years. The base game is available for free, any extras like costumes and areas are charged individually. It's the microtransaction world we all reluctantly predicted was coming.

I like that model for online games but not for the singleplayer/offline experience.

As I've stated before, Ubisoft's methods penalize legitimate customers and practically validate and reward piracy.

Steam's system seems to be the most widely accepted by the masses and especially the less concerned (or ignorant). However, I'm not exactly a fan of putting all my eggs in one basket.

Impulse, in my humble opinion, got it right. It is a digital distribution and management centre. As far as I've noticed, so long as I have a legitimate serial key when I purchase through Impulse, I can play the games no matter where I get them from. The most recent case being Splinter Cell: Conviction, which I purchased through Impulse and (due to some issues in the game itself) I resorted to downloading a pirated copy and using my legitimate key to install. Worked like a charm. I prefer having the choice.

[MysterD]

Only thing I find annoying about Impulse and Steam sometimes is extra online DRM measures and/or install limit measures - i.e. STALKER: Call of Pripyat from Impulse has requires Tages activation, GTA4 from Steam has Securom Internet activation. Steam has it worse than Impulse when there's extra DRM b/c w/ Steam, you're always stuck w/ having to ALSO use Steamworks DRM and run Steam-program to even boot the game, too - Impulse just has...well, whatever DRM they want to use; Impulse isn't required to run the game - though in many games, Impulse is REQUIRED to get updates for an Impulse-purchased game.

EDIT:
About free-to-play w/ extra content costing money, if I recall, this model helped out DDO: Unlimited finally take off. One thing I hate about MMO's - when they pull the plug, you're pretty much screwed...

[gpw11]

It can work in certain online niche markets, but for the majority of online games (read: competitive) and pretty much every single player game it's just a bad idea...for consumers.  In any online competitive game it really just serves to fragment the user base as well as kill the overall balance of the game.  Imagine if you're playing TF2 and only have 3 out of the six classes available to you....or you only get the additional maps and character packs if you pay for them.   Keep in mind that they're talking about altering existing revenue streams and creating new ones in order to make up for lower sales, not really capitalizing on unmet potential in existing ones.  That's key here.

Offline and single player, the whole idea is just a shit show.  You're kidding yourself if you think any head of marketing is going to be able to convince a manager reporting to a board that shipping a game they could sell for $50 for free instead and hoping to recoup the costs on that through DLC is going to fly.  No, if they're going to be pulling off something like that they're going to be shipping a demo/advertisement which is essentially broken because it's main purpose is to market and hook you just enough that you have to pay more in hopes of satisfaction. I have a feeling you'll literally be nickel and dimed to death. It COULD work with something like The Sims, but imagine the same model in a game like Mass Effect 3 - which is what they're talking about here. An annoyance and it'll probably have a higher overall cost to honest consumers....and still do nothing to deter piracy.