Topic: How did you guys do school and work?

[ScaryTooth]

This might be lengthy.

I currently work on The Ohio State University Medical Center as a Senior Pharmacy Technician. It's an okay job as it allows for a decent bit of freedom as you mostly work alone making rounds between various halls and floors. And you can set your own pace, as long as your job gets completed. The only real bad thing is that there is so much nit picky, and bureaucratic bullshit that it's not funny, as with pretty much all government jobs, or just about any job now that I think of it. The biggest reason I work there are the benefits, which include full tuition to The Ohio State University. The only thing I have to pay is lab fees and books. Which to date have totaled $30 out of my pocket, which is pretty cool, heh.

Well, since I didn't go to college straight out of High school, which I really regret not doing, I waited 7 years and because of that I wouldn't be accepted into OSU unless I had acquired 45 credits from a "lesser" college. So, I went to a Community College for the last couple years. And just this last spring quarter, I finally was accepted into OSU, but still had to finish a math series at Columbus State Community College, while taking the last English class I ever have to take at OSU. It's taken me forever it seems, as I work about 45 hours a week, and I can only handle two classes most quarters, it's draining, and tiring, but doable. And I feel I don't do as well as I could if I was a fully time student, and part time employee. Thing is, when you work for OSU, and you want to go to school for free, you are an employee first, and a student second, and that is understandable I suppose, but I really don't like that mentality. If there is a class that you need to take, and it's only offered in the morning at 10:30am, and you work first shift as I do, to fucking bad, you can't take it, and they are not flexible about it. See, I think of my job as a "college job", and honestly, I'm sick to death of jobs, I'm ready for a career.

If I keep going to school like this, it's going to take me another 4-5 years to get a degree, which I feel is unreasonable. For the last week or so, I've been considering quitting my job, or at least cutting back to around 50% time or something in order to go to class full time, which I would prefer. Thing is, if I do that, my school benefit is forfeit, and I pay for it, and since I'm not rich or anything, I'd have to take out some hefty school loans.

I guess, I'm venting, and looking for some insight here. No one in my immediate family has went to college. And all of my friends who attend school, are supported by their parents or other family members, they don't have to work, and most of them have their families to rely on, I'm completely dependent on myself. And it's hard to get an idea of what it's like to take out loans and rely on that to pay for school and bills. The gf is very supportive and has helped me so much that I can't even begin to thank her enough, but she lacks some understanding of the whole paying for stuff with money process. Her parent paid for her undergrad, living expenses tuition, and everything. And she took out some loans to obtain her masters in social work, which I am very proud of her for doing.  But when I talk to her about the whole thing, she just says "quit your job and take out loans", well, I would love to do that, but it would cost a ridiculous amount of money. She fails to factor in $18,000 for bills, rent, car payment, gas, etc. then another $10,000-$12,000 for tution, as well as miscellaneous cost here and there. That would be around $30,000 a year I would need for about 3 years. She seems to think It would be like $20,000 total to do all this.

I'm thinking; work part-time to cover some costs, take out loans for school and bills, I should get a little money from grants, and hopefully end up with about $35,000-$40,000 to pay back after I get a degree, which would take about 2 and half or 3 years. And I know it's a gamble, but both the majors I'm looking at are about $60,000 a year right off the rip. Assuming I can land a job. That works out to be about $5000 a month, even if I had a $1000 loan payment, and payed $2000 a month for bills and such, I would still have about $2000 to put in a savings account. Instead of the chump change I'm doing now. Which is crap. Now, these are extremely rough estimates, and it's assuming a retarded amount of things, it's just more my thought process, not actual figures or anything. 

Whew! Okay, I'm just wondering if any one here has done anything similar, and if so, how did it go?
   

[scottws]

I'll get more into your post and a more detailed response later, but to answer your subject... ultimately I didn't.  I never did end up getting my degree.

[sirean_syan]

When I went back to school in 2006 I decided that I was just going to bite the bullet, use up my savings, and rack up loans. I knew, to do what I wanted to, even working part time wasn't going to cut it. However, I wasn't looking at nearly the same amount of debt as you were. I was able to live off of savings while attending a community college for two years. After transferring it was loans. Tuition fees were on the order of $5k a semester and then it was costs of living which made total costs per year ~$20k. With grants and scholarships I was able to come out owing a little more than $10k. Half of those are interest free until I'm no longer a full time student and interest on the other half is actually somewhat fair (student loans through a university tend to be some of the best loans you can get). So, I think I did alright.

I'm not sure what sort of degree you're going for so I can't speak for your plan. What I can say is that I never met anyone who is serious about pursuing science as a career (as opposed to pursuing the degree for the sake of graduating) worked part time outside of small random jobs within the school designed for students or already working within their field (paid internships and such). Since this is what I wanted to do and considering how I worked, it seemed valid enough for how I decided to do things. It's just not done if you want to do well and continue doing well. I also can say that I met very few university students outside of my major who worked outside of school, so what I saw wasn't unique. That was probably the biggest difference I saw in community college life versus university. At the university, most who did well were first and foremost students. Still, it depends what you want. If that sort of attention is not required for your major or if you don't need to work up to graduate school then working part time probably isn't a bad deal. Two years isn't a long time, so roughing it wouldn't be too terrible.

The other side of the equation that helped me and may help you is your girlfriend. For me, Aimee helped keep cost down during this whole experience and I honestly wouldn't be where I am without her. When I started we were already more than committed to each other, so it wasn't like a sell. Investing in me was also an investment in her future. Over time we developed a half-spoken agreement that she would probably be able work less in the future in the future if she helped now. Again, I don't know details about how you and your girlfriend operate, but I do know you've been together a long time now. Those sorts of relationships can help move a pair forward in situations like this. That's not using her to pay for school, but supporting each other so you both come out for the better in the end. Lumping expenses together on paper might not be the best way to apply for loans right now, but saving money which immediately goes to loan payments right out of graduation could bring that debt to a much less daunting or she could help cover more than half of shared expenses. It's something to think about. As another aside, I know going back to school finally got me moving forward on our relationship we got engaged for real. I also think this sort of mutual helping would be anything but good in new, rocky, or not-fully-committed relationships. That's just asking for trouble.

Finally: scholarships and grants. Apply. Few people do and that makes getting them easier (although I imagine that's less true today than when I first got this advice a decade ago). Still, you're a transfer student and that's something that tends to be something of a minority at university. People with money for these things love success stories like that which puts you in a unique position. Plus, there are usually a few scholarships made for people in your exact situation.

So yeah. I don't know if that helps but I know somewhat where your coming from. Our paths might be very different though and, therefore, anything I come up with might not be entirely valid. The debt seems large, but it may be manageable with more than just plain old work. If you are in it for something interesting that you genuinely enjoy that's also something to consider and may be more important than the cost. While I initially went back because I was unhappy with where I might be headed with my job, it was the realization that I wanted to be a geologist and loved the science that ultimately made the decision for me.

Edit: Cleaned some stuff up and moved text around.

[ScaryTooth]

That sounds like it worked out pretty well. We are very committed to each other, and marriage is in the future, and she helps me a ton with everything. I'm kind of in Aimee's role right now. She took out loans and such, but it only barely covered her school. Her parent helped her a little bit, but they decided it was best for her to handle all of graduate school herself, which I think was a great idea.

I've supported her a decent amount for the last couple of years while she finished her Master's up. She is currently looking for a job, and that role is likely going to switch to something more similar to what your situation was like. Which will be  a massive amount of help.

I am seriously considering a degree in Computer Science, I meet the reqs to get into the school of engineering, but I think it might be risky for me, as I'm starting so late into a fairly competitive field. My backup is Biological Sciences. And I totally agree that with those types of majors, working a job would hinder my ability to preform well and ultimately damage my long term goals.

[TheOtherBelmont]

I was in this boat from 2002-2005 when I was getting my bachelor's degree and it was a pain in the ass.  I did not get any help from my family and had to support myself so I had to work full time and go to school full time and it was the most draining experience I have ever had.  It really affected how well I did in school.  I barely got my degree and if I wasn't working or at least working part time I know I would have done so much better.  I got some grants which helped knock out some of the tutition but I'm still paying off my student loans which sucks, but I'm glad I was able to get a degree right after high school so I didn't have to waste more time going to a community college or something later.  While I did not end up doing the work with my degree that I wanted to, the degree is definitely helping me with my current job and a future promotion I may end up getting soon.  The program they have at your job to pay your tuition is great but if its going to take you 4-5 years to finish up school and you have your girlfriend to help you out like Sy did, I would probably go with your plan to work part time and take out some loans so you can get your degree out of the way.  Whatever you end up doing, good luck to you.

[gpw11]

I'm going to go against the grain here:  Keep the free school benefit, suck it up, and get your degree for as little money out of your pocket as you can possibly get away with. You're right about your rough calculations: They're rough and incorporate way too many assumptions.  There's a high probability you won't be making that much entry level, won't have a job right away, and won't have that much cash freed up to start paying off your principle...and you're not taking interest into account.  You're essentially taking on a debt load of an extra $35-$40,000 in order to get your degree two years earlier.   It's easy to justify when you convince yourself that you'll be making an extra $20,000 a year (post tax) and putting that ALL towards your debt, but you won't. You could be looking at a year or more before you start working in your field, you're probably not going to be making the median or mean salary for your field for a few years, and you may not even like it or find that there's enough opportunity for you and you want to go back for a masters.

 Given the option to take an extra two-three years and graduate debt free, most in hindsight would probably go the debt free route. Or at least it seems that's what everyone says when we talk about my lengthy (and not quite debt free, but somewhat close, all things considered) academic career.  As for it affecting your performance, strangely enough, I was having the conversation the other night with a group of friends about how we all wished we had known back in undergrad that no one would ever give a fuck about your gpa.  None of us ever had it come up in job interviews.  Entry level you sell yourself based on your skills and personality, but everyone in a hiring position pretty much knows that school performance and real world performance are two different things.  And after that first entry level position, you sell yourself based on experience.

You have an opportunity most don't.  It probably won't be much easier for you going to school full time and working part time than what you're doing right now, but you're in danger of constricting yourself and especially your future financial situation by giving up on a free education.

[scottws]

Alright, I've had more time to dig into your post.  First I'll talk a little about my position.  I'm about 90% the way finished with my BS in "Information Technology", though to get that 90% took me 6+ years.  When I started, it wasn't so bad.  I was a night student with an 8-4:30 job.  But eventually I accumulated enough of a network of contacts and IT knowledge through school that I was able to get an IT job.  Over time, it became more and more difficult to get to classes because work demands would intercede.  Eventually, UC decided to stop financing me because 1) it was taking me too long to complete my degree and 2) because I had dropped too many classes.  This really sucks because I'm now burdened with huge loans with no degree and I have no means to afford paying myself.  Now that I'm moving, it really sucks.  Sure, I could transfer to a school in FL, but I will probably lose a ton of credits and therefore be set back a few more years.

I've found it easy enough to find IT jobs without a degree based on the amount of school I did go to, knowledge accumulated, and my network of contacts.  But I'm starting to see a few places where they are absolutely requiring a 4-year degree, which never was really a true requirement in IT because most companies valued actual experience over education.  With the high unemployment, I guess employers can get more selective.

Anyway, I agree with gpw about staying with your OSU job to get the free tuition.  When I graduated high school (mid-90's), it was all about "do whatever it takes to get an education", including taking out loans.  Now they are saying don't take out any more than $10,000.  And I see why.  Over the past decade there has been a vast shift in the workforce.  Executives now make something like 350:1 what the average worker makes when it used to be closer to 150:1.  People are making less and less money and doing more and more work.  So it will be harder to pay off sizable loans.

But do get a degree if you can.  I really regret not focusing on it out of high school.  Instead I partied my way out of Miami University and then took a several year hiatus and by that point I was trying to live on my own and had tons of expenses and had to have a full time job, making school harder.  But even then, I really wish I had stuck out the school thing and focused more of my attention on it.  Then it would be behind me and I wouldn't have the fact I don't have a degree hanging over my head and tens of thousands in loans with nothing to show for it.

[Quemaqua]

I can't give you anything as I basically never went to college, but I'll agree with everyone's talk of focusing on getting your degree. I regret a lot. When my dad was alive we made too much money to qualify for any kind of financial aid that I looked into, and when he died circumstances were such that I really didn't have many options so I just continued working, which is more or less what I've been doing since I was 16. I was never satisfied with the state of things and was always frustrated by the jobs I had to work (which were always doing things that I hated), and it's only now that I've made the highly illogical choice to simply drop the fuck out of the rat race and try to pursue a dream. I wish I'd tried harder, just worked things out until I found some way to keep doing school... but school was never something I enjoyed (still isn't), so I didn't. If you've got this opportunity now, don't squander it!

[ren]

Keep track of your expenses. Figure out exactly how much money you're actually spending a month instead of using rough estimates of what you think you spend each month. When you've done that you'll have a better idea of where you can realistically cut costs. If you're saying $30,000 a year and the gf is saying $20,000 a year total, you're asking for trouble if you do decide to go the student loans route.

I'm leaning towards GPW's side on this. If you can graduate in 4-5 years with no debt compared to 2-3 years with tens of thousands of dollars of debt, the 4-5 year route may be the better one. If you quit your job, will those two extra years make up for all the debt you've acquired? There's something to be said for keeping your sanity and giving full attention to your studies but the longer you can persevere, the better off you may be.

Also, research the job market for whatever your major is. A B.Sc. doesn't make you as employable as you'd like to think.

[sirean_syan]

Also, research the job market for whatever your major is. A B.Sc. doesn't make you as employable as you'd like to think.

This is crucial. If you decide you want, can manage, or simply need graduate school performance is once again an issue. This is especially true if you're considering something like biology or engineering and find out you want/need a graduate degree from a program that means something. That is, a program that pays you to study and research something as you work towards a degree.

It's all a balance really. I sort of think it comes does to what school means for you. Are you looking for a degree simply to get a better job or do you genuinely enjoy what you're studying?  If degree=better job=more money: the more cost effective route will probably be the better one. However, if degree=more=studies, the route in which you will perform better academically is probably the better route.

[W7RE]

I was in this boat from 2002-2005 when I was getting my bachelor's degree and it was a pain in the ass.  I did not get any help from my family and had to support myself so I had to work full time and go to school full time and it was the most draining experience I have ever had.  It really affected how well I did in school.  I barely got my degree and if I wasn't working or at least working part time I know I would have done so much better.  I got some grants which helped knock out some of the tutition but I'm still paying off my student loans which sucks, but I'm glad I was able to get a degree right after high school so I didn't have to waste more time going to a community college or something later.  While I did not end up doing the work with my degree that I wanted to, the degree is definitely helping me with my current job and a future promotion I may end up getting soon.  The program they have at your job to pay your tuition is great but if its going to take you 4-5 years to finish up school and you have your girlfriend to help you out like Sy did, I would probably go with your plan to work part time and take out some loans so you can get your degree out of the way.  Whatever you end up doing, good luck to you.

I roomed with him during most of this. It looked exhausting, and I didn't want to do it. I took the easy route instead: rack up bills, drop out of school, stay jobless and in-debt for 6+ years.

[ren]

That actually sounds much harder

[W7RE]

That actually sounds much harder

It was easier at the time. It's harder now that I'm jobless, in debt, and have no education.