Topic: The Future is Still Retail

[idolminds]

Article

[MysterD]

Retail is WAY TOO broken to be the future.

[K-man]

Terrible article.  For reasons I'll expound upon later when I'm not knee deep into sin and punishment (which I downloaded)

[MysterD]

Retail has so many problems, I just don't know really where to begin on this one...
Okay, I'll try to get this started a little bit on Retail's problems...

Often poor sale-pricing, when compared to DD sales-pricing;
Vanilla games feel incomplete b/c later-released DLC winds-up repackaged later w/ Re-released Editions ONLY;
DLC Only packs/compilations are NOT released at Retail very often anymore;
Retail packaging doesn't include anything extra physically worthwhile inside anymore (especially in Regular Editions);
Manuals having gotten smaller for the most part, if there even is one inside the box;
Indie developers often can make more money through digital avenues than Retail (see what Outerlight said).

[Cobra951]

I think he has a point, though he's wrong about at least one category: visitors.  People now bring their console HDDs, or even whole consoles to friends' houses, to show off & play new games.

I'll say this:  I never thought I'd bite on the convenience of digital over owning a box and disc when available.  I've now violated my own rule.

[MysterD]

I think he has a point, though he's wrong about at least one category: visitors.  People now bring their console HDDs, or even whole consoles to friends' houses, to show off & play new games.

I'll say this:  I never thought I'd bite on the convenience of digital over owning a box and disc when available.  I've now violated my own rule.

The only advantage to having a game from Retail is you basically avoid the process of having to download an entire game. If you have a slow Internet connection and/or an unstable connection, you'll definitely want the game on disc from Retail.

Impulse and Steam - you can use the built-in Archiving features to archive an entire game at its most up-to-date state and then cut them to disc(s) or wherever.
GOG, EA Download Manager, G4WL - you can just back-up all of the installer files to disc(s) or wherever.

EDIT:
Digital makes it easier to "upsell" to gamers, as well. Steam often gives discounts often to Vanilla Game owners who want to upgrade to a Re-Released Version of the game w/ extra content - see STALKER series; Divinity 2; and Blood Bowl. Usually, it's at a 33% off discount. More DD's should take note of this.

At Retail, if you owned Vanilla Game and say wanted to upgrade to the Re-Released Edition (likely w/ extra DLC, expansions, or other extras), you'd have to buy the entire Re-Released Edition at full price or wait for the hopefully inevitable price-drop.

[iPPi]

I prefer owning a hard copy of a game versus owning only a soft copy of it.  If there is a retail version of it, that version is the one I prefer because then I don't have to waste space on my hard drive to keep the game installed or something like that.

Only when a game is only available through digital distribution will I purchase it through that avenue.

[MysterD]

I prefer owning a hard copy of a game versus owning only a soft copy of it.  If there is a retail version of it, that version is the one I prefer because then I don't have to waste space on my hard drive to keep the game installed or something like that.

Yeah, we all prefer the work already done for us - it's nice.

But, often - the download versions, these client-programs like Steam and Impulse have built-in back-up features for Archiving and you can cut that archived filed up to disc(s) or some other storage device with its most updated-version. With G4WL, GOG, D2D, EA Download Manager - you can just cut the installer files to disc(s) or some other storage device.

Only when a game is only available through digital distribution will I purchase it through that avenue.

There's other concerns w/ Retail and DD games, on the PC.

1. Some games have different DRM schemes for each version.
Example:
D2D version uses their DRM brew; Retail version uses Securom disc check only; EA download version uses Securom Internet Check w/ 5 installs w/ revokes allowed; Steam version uses Steamworks DRM; Impulse version uses GOO; etc etc.

2. Often, you can't mix say Base game and expansions w/ different versions.
Example:
Borderlands, Retail Game - All DLC must be bought from Gearbox Online Download Store or at Retail on disc.
Borderlands, Steam Version - All DLC must be bought from Steam only.
Borderlands, D2D Version - All DLC must be bought from D2D only.

3. Does Retail-disc version require Steamworks?
If yes - then, does it matter if you buy it from either Steam to download or Retail?

[iPPi]

Granted -- I'm kind of far removed from the gaming sector nowadays.  Most of my gaming is restricted to consoles, if at all and thus it is almost a necessity to purchase a hard copy of a game.  I don't have the HDD space to download full releases on the Xbox360.  I can for the PS3 but I prefer not to (it's been like 4 months since I've logged into PSN since my PS3 isn't where I'm living right now.  I'm not sure how many 'full retail title games' are on PSN because of the use of blu-ray).

For PC gaming, I do see the appeal of digital distribution with systems like Steam now that it has established a foothold in the industry and has stabilized sufficiently such that one would not generally have to worry about 'losing' your games anymore.  The only PC game I'm playing right now is Starcraft 2 and Blizzard distributes their games digitally as well so having a hard copy is almost redundant, especially since you have an account with them and they are aware of what games you have purchased and registered.

With some platforms, such as mobile gaming, digital distribution is almost the way to go now so you don't have to carry any extra discs or cartridges with you.  For smartphone gaming, digital distribution is the only way to get games.

Digital distribution has definitely become a very viable method of purchasing games (and movies).  I can definitely see why there are some retailers that are struggling with and fearing the advent of digital distribution as it continues to grow.

[Cools!]

Retail stores are limited by space. They simply can't display all the games currently out let alone those that are a bit older. Most dedicated gaming stores around here are now about used games. For example, the EB Games at one of the biggest malls in Toronto has only the shelf right at the entrance with new releases. There are no games older than a year, except for used, and very few PC games in general.

Beyond used games and I guess gifting, there is no purpose to retail gaming stores anymore. The old concept of going into a store and being able to browse a lot of games going back a few years is over. At least around here.

[Ghandi]

So apart from having a shitty internet connection, I don't understand the obsession with having a hard copy of a game. I can understand the difference between a book and an ebook (I prefer the hard copy in this case, nothing beats a good book). With games, though, they are inherently digital, and the only real benefit I can see to having a hard copy is that you may not have an internet connection. Nowadays, though, that is almost obsolete.

[Cobra951]

It's difficult to ignore the convenience.  If I could back up console games without convoluted trickery, I think my last serious objection would melt away.  That still leaves me unable to resell digitally distributed games and extra content, but I haven't sold back a game in 15 years at least.  That point is moot.  What remains as a spoiler to this digital utopia is my packrat instinct.  I'm very attached to those game cases shelved neatly in a row, organized by platform.  That would be so hard to give up.

[Pugnate]

As I am getting older and less tolerant, I find the digital distribution thing more appealing. Automatic updates... not having to put a CD in every goddamn time you want to play something else is very comforting.

I still like having boxes and the nice packaging etc., but still.

The other thing is that being in a country where game stores only mostly sell packaged console games, means I have to import when going for most PC retail. This makes Steam more enticing. I never thought I'd buy a new AAA game at full price digitally, but I did Civ5, and I didn't regret this.

Having said all that, I agree that the future is still retail. First of all, the only "experts" i.e. people involved in the gaming industry, that come out and say that digital is the future are developers, bloggers, and journalists.

Seriously, no one who understands the business end of things, i.e. publishers or even retailers have gone out and said that retail will be killed by digital distribution. These are the people who understand the actual psychology of customers, how a market works, and the overall business end of things.

Sure, people speculate about what will occur 5 to 10 years down the road... but it seems more like day dreaming than actual analysis.

Some points to ponder:

1. Not everyone in the world has super fast internet connection. Hell, not everyone in the US has a super fast internet connection. I am on a 4mbps connection here, and it still took me a day or so to download Civ5. Had I had the option of picking it up from the shop, it is what I would have done, easily.

2. The biggest gaming market is still kids and younger adults. Kids don't have the practicality of adults, and still like the feeling of physical feeling of holding their purchases.

3. There is still nothing like browsing a store and seeing a stack of games displayed nicely on the shelves. Browsing digital album covers just doesn't cut it.

Anyway, while I agree with K-Man, that the article wasn't written very well, the guy makes a few good points, though others that I'd like to offer a rebuttal to when I get the chance. In the future, I personally see digital distribution as being an important side companion to its bigger brother, retail.

[Xessive]

I can't help but notice that the only group of people immune to the issues of DRM and various other digital-vs-retail arguments are pirates.

In my case with the Bordelands GOTY, I felt that Gearbox couldn't make up their minds: base game was on disc but all DLC (5GB total) was download only?! It was so much easier to get the DLC via reliable torrents (you can pause and resume), rather than the flimsy direct download from Gearbox, and use a crack to avoid having the disc in the drive. Problem solved.

[MysterD]

@Xessive

I can't help but notice that the only group of people immune to the issues of DRM and various other digital-vs-retail arguments are pirates.

Which is bullcrap.

Only others that can avoid DRM are those who buy a Retail product (so they have the game on disc) and then use a crack on top of it.

In my case with the Bordelands GOTY, I felt that Gearbox couldn't make up their minds: base game was on disc but all DLC (5GB total) was download only?! It was so much easier to get the DLC via reliable torrents (you can pause and resume), rather than the flimsy direct download from Gearbox, and use a crack to avoid having the disc in the drive. Problem solved.

That's bloody bullcrap. If you buy a Retail Box Edition that supposed to come w/ everything - and the DLC content has already been released as DLC online (in this case, this is true) - it should ALL come on in the box on disc or multiple discs.

Seriously - even though M$ lost the HD-disc war to Sony, I really wish Microsoft would've pushed the damn HD-DVD format on the PC - even if it was just for storage reasons! It's not like PC games you buy at Retail utilize Blu-Ray or anything! They still use DVD format.

It'd be really nice to be able to buy games that are say 15-20 GB games or more on one damn disc. This is supposed to be THEIR platform (b/c their OS dominates PC's), dammit - someone tell Microsoft to act like it's THEIR platform.


EDIT:
@iPPi

Granted -- I'm kind of far removed from the gaming sector nowadays.  Most of my gaming is restricted to consoles, if at all and thus it is almost a necessity to purchase a hard copy of a game.  I don't have the HDD space to download full releases on the Xbox360.  I can for the PS3 but I prefer not to (it's been like 4 months since I've logged into PSN since my PS3 isn't where I'm living right now.  I'm not sure how many 'full retail title games' are on PSN because of the use of blu-ray).

As long as there's no burning on a console - yeah, buying a hard-copy is almost a necessity.

For back-up purposes - can you say hook-up your console to a PC and copy your HDD contents from your console somewhere else? Like say - copy your console's HDD contents onto your PC's HDD, another PC portable hard drive; or say some DVD's?

For PC gaming, I do see the appeal of digital distribution with systems like Steam now that it has established a foothold in the industry and has stabilized sufficiently such that one would not generally have to worry about 'losing' your games anymore.  The only PC game I'm playing right now is Starcraft 2 and Blizzard distributes their games digitally as well so having a hard copy is almost redundant, especially since you have an account with them and they are aware of what games you have purchased and registered.

BNet is likely going to add also 3rd party games to be sold over BNet in around Q1 2012.

With some platforms, such as mobile gaming, digital distribution is almost the way to go now so you don't have to carry any extra discs or cartridges with you.  For smartphone gaming, digital distribution is the only way to get games.

Digital distribution has definitely become a very viable method of purchasing games (and movies).  I can definitely see why there are some retailers that are struggling with and fearing the advent of digital distribution as it continues to grow.

There are so many places to buy games digitally on the PC - Steam (Valve); Impulse (Stardock); Gamersgate (Paradox); Direct2Drive; Games For Windows Marketplace (Microsoft); GOG (CD Projekt); Metaboli; BNet (currently only Blizzard games); etc.

Even publishers and retails stores have PC digital download shops now - Atari Download Store; EA Download Store; Amazon Download Store; GameStop Download Store; etc. And you can bet those that haven't yet - they probably will, in due time.

[Pugnate]

And this is why Myst3rD was born.

[K-man]

Here's why retail will die a slow painful death:

1.  Retail space is limited and it takes a large amount of money and resources to get your product into a retail store.  Digital Distribution circumvents all of this.

2.  The majority of people do not care about "owning" a game.  We are the minority, as bad as I hate to admit that.  I love my game collection (and adding to it!), and every time I buy a DD title I wish it could have been in some retail format.  But the truth of the matter is that as long as people are getting the content they really don't care how it arrives.  Sure, some people are still at a disadvantage as far as access to high speed Internet goes, but those problems will be resolved one day. 

3.  His comment about impulse buyers was way off the mark.  I'd be much more likely to buy something impulsively online than at a retail store.  It's just so easy. I browse a list of games, see something I like, and click the mouse.

4.  The best(worst) reason, and the one that basically seals retail's fate, is the fact that it is in the best interests of the gaming companies to release games digitally.  Less overhead for them, potentially a wider audience, etc.  They can get their game out faster and cheaper. It makes all the sense in the world from a business standpoint to eventually make the shift from retail to digital.

Anyhow, kind of what I wanted to say on the topic, spurred on by the first cup of coffee I haven't quite finished. 

[Cobra951]

Here's why retail will die a slow painful death:

. . .

4.  The best(worst) reason, and the one that basically seals retail's fate, is the fact that it is in the best interests of the gaming companies to release games digitally.  Less overhead for them, potentially a wider audience, etc.  They can get their game out faster and cheaper. It makes all the sense in the world from a business standpoint to eventually make the shift from retail to digital.

And the second-hand market is dealt a fatal blow.  Don't forget that one, because I think it rises to the top of your list.  But regardless of strong developer/distributor motivation, retail isn't going away anytime soon.  It has too much inertia behind it.  Lots of people use it; lots of businesses are built up around it.

[MysterD]

And the second-hand market is dealt a fatal blow.  Don't forget that one, because I think it rises to the top of your list.

Honestly, it'd be nice to get more money into the dev's and publishers hands than 2nd-hand market shops like especially GameStop - since 2nd hand market stores like Gamestop ain't giving any kind of cut to the dev's and publishers.

But regardless of strong developer/distributor motivation, retail isn't going away anytime soon.  It has too much inertia behind it.  Lots of people use it; lots of businesses are built up around it.

At least not for console games - retail is where the money's at for console games, for now. I think that'll be the case until consoles allow for back-ups for entire games, patches, and stuff of that nature.

For PC games - all my local stores seem to have very small shelf space for PC games - one rack, if you're lucky.
Well, except for my local Best Buy - they actually have racks and racks of PC games.

[sirean_syan]

I'm fond of K-Man's point on impulse buys. While I total enjoy having an actual collection, now if I actually add something to it it's a deliberate choice. Stores don't work like they used to as games will disappear off shelves quickly unless they're the biggest franchises (not counting the joke that is used game sales (and my obsession against mostly buying new games)). Occasionally, even new games are hard to find if they're small. This usually forces me to order something online if I want a game.

However, I've bought several games through Steam in the past year on a whim. Only once was it a new product, but direct services have ridiculous sales that just make me want to look back at stuff I missed. When some of the black friday stuff came out last week, it was almost laughable compared to what Steam had offered just a few days before.

For me, retail packaging still has it's place, but it has mostly been replaced by Amazon for my collecting needs. The prices then to be a little lower than Best Buy and the like, there's no tax, and usually no shipping charges. I'll still go pick up something from Best Buy or the like, but maybe that's ~30% of the time now.

[MysterD]

I'm fond of K-Man's point on impulse buys. While I total enjoy having an actual collection, now if I actually add something to it it's a deliberate choice. Stores don't work like they used to as games will disappear off shelves quickly unless they're the biggest franchises (not counting the joke that is used game sales (and my obsession against mostly buying new games)). Occasionally, even new games are hard to find if they're small. This usually forces me to order something online if I want a game.

Not too long ago, I saw Risen PC at $40 at Best Buy in store. During a sale recently, Risen PC was $15 on Steam one weekend - which is where I wound up buying it. I find this to be happening A LOT to me - I buy a DD version during a sale b/c its MUCH cheaper than what Retail's offering.

I think most of my DD sales - I wind up buying them during a major sale, not when a game is brand new. When a game is brand new, if I want to pay full-price, I might as well buy it at Retail b/c usually the price is the same - which is not often for me. Might as well have a hard-copy, if that's the case - unless the DD version is throwing in some extra free games or goodies (to try and top the retail price). I just usually sit and wait for some kind of sale.