Author Topic: Metroid: Other M  (Read 6473 times)

Offline sirean_syan

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Metroid: Other M
« on: Tuesday, June 02, 2009, 10:19:15 AM »
Another Metroid was just announced at the Nintendo press conference. It's being co-developed by Team Ninja and Nintendo and looks to be sort of a 3rd person action game in the vein of Ninja Gaiden.

As usual, I'm not really sure what to think. It looks a lot more action oriented than your typical Metroid, but it might actually be closer to the old 2D style. They also seem to have the art style down pretty well with nice dark looking caverns, so that's good. The best hurdle will be how they handle Samus herself and the universe. It already sorta looks like they have her speaking in cutscenes, so I'm guessing they're going to actually imprint a personality on her. That stuff always makes me worry.

But really, a new Metroid!

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday, June 02, 2009, 06:32:37 PM »
I'm worried.  Team Ninja isn't at all the team I would put on this project, and their involvement alone worries me, let alone all the other implications like giving Samus a voice.

The trailer didn't inspire much confidence, either.  Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure those dudes have the chops to pull off the action if they really sat down to do it.  However, my biggest fear was confirmed: it looks exactly like all their other fucking games.  I.e. there's no sense of texture and everything looks like it's made of plastic.  I absolutely hate that.

Quote from: IRC
<@Quemaqua> It looks like all Team Ninja's other games, which is the first fear that came into my mind when I read about it.  Their games are all awful looking.
<@sirean|off> Really?
<@Quemaqua> Character models all look like they're made of plastic.
<@Quemaqua> Samus looks like a toy.
<@sirean|off> At least the shiny plastic look works with Samus armor.
<@Quemaqua> Eh... not to me.  It doesn't look like metal.
<@Quemaqua> It looked fine when they actually stuck some decent shaders on it in low light, like toward the end.  Might have been a prerendered part where she shot at the camera.
<@Quemaqua> That looked fine.  The stuff before that looked horrid.
<@Quemaqua> Organic creatures that should be slimy and muscley looking just looked like toys.
<@sirean|off> Huh. I thought it looked pretty good.
<@Quemaqua> I don't know.  That doesn't mean the game is going to suck.  The action did look good, and like you said, possibly even more like traditional Metroids, but the look of it definitely takes the excitement out of it for me.
<@Quemaqua> That was one of my big fears with the Prime games initially, too, and they turned out to have an art style I liked even better than the originals.
<@sirean|off> I was happy with the Ridley model at least.
<@idolminds> I dont think its due till 2010 (like most things show), so maybe itll change
<@Quemaqua> I just hope Nintendo has a big hand in it.  I worry about the Team Ninja breastification of everything and their ability to craft a compelling story without getting into heavy cheese.

We'll see, I guess.  It could still be cool, and the Samus design out-of-suit doesn't seem bad.  It could be cool, and I'll almost certainly buy it without question, but I'm not as pumped about it as I wish I was.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline gpw11

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #2 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 05:18:22 PM »
Is there a gameplay trailer of this?  I could just find a cinematic one.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 05:45:55 PM »
Gameplay Trailer

Seems kinda like a 2.5D game... maybe this is what we've been asking for all along.

Offline beo

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 05:48:30 PM »
god damnit - was just posting that!

yeah. it looks good. sort of making me think that maybe i do want to buy a wii afterall.

Offline iPPi

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 05:53:28 PM »
Looks decent.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 06:46:08 PM »
Maybe.  The sideways Wiimote = NES pad.  Shouldn't we be a bit beyond that?  Oh, OK, it has motion sensors too.  Give me the classic controller instead?  It depends on how important (and worthwhile) the first-person parts are.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 07:35:13 PM »
After hearing about how the control stuff works I was a little indifferent, but that actually looks great. I'll keep my hopes up.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #8 on: Thursday, September 09, 2010, 04:30:05 PM »
Yeah. This is an abortion of a Metroid game. I came away from it more or less angry because of what I fear it represents for Metroid. I'll get to that. First, just a list of bad things:

1) They pretty much destroy what little character was given the Samus in the more modern games. I'm not saying she was deep before as she really was mostly a blank slate character, but she was also generally portrayed as confident. That's gone. Samus sort of becomes confident by the end of the game, but that's a problem as well. This is supposed to take place after Super Metroid and therefore more or less late in the series. Samus is a hardened veteran by this point and has literally wiped entire planets clean and completely eradicated the galaxy of the Space Pirates. Other M makes her doubt herself constantly and I don't get where it comes from. I can understand and would totally dig if she was contemplative and thoughtful, especially since she's more or less a loner. Apparently my image of her was wrong. Of all things in the game, I feel like this is probably the most unforgivable.

2) The item system is just sad. No longer do you actually find new gear (save for missle/energy upgrades and two minor upgrades). Instead, you start with almost all your gear and it's unlocked by a commander. This kills two things in the game. Story wise, it makes Samus look subservient to an old commander as, for example, she won't turn on the Varia suit in lava areas because the commander doesn't say so. The game claims this is in the spirit of cooperation with the commander and his team, but that's sort of a copout. That could have actually lead to something interesting as Samus, who is totally used to working alone, is forced to learn to work with other again. No, it's just an arbitrary way to control your progress. Granted, Metroid always did something arbitrary to keep you from your gear, but it also gave you the fun of going out and finding stuff. That's the problem here as there is almost no joy in finding stuff here (very unMetroid). Instead, you'll just get to a point and the commander will say something like, "Use your super missile on him" and then super missiles get unlocked. It's very anticlimactic and unrewarding. Any items you do find are just tucked in a corner or in a dead end hallway, much like an Easter Egg hunt designed for a toddler. Additionally, Samus always looks the same throughout the entire game. No new suits. That's just a bummer.

3) While there is something of a sprawling map, there's really no exploration. The game literally forces you along a path and will often lock doors that lead in other directions. I understand the old approach of showing you a way you can't get to without certain gear and that happens a little here, but you can't get back to these places once you do get said gear because the way back to it might be locked (again, very unMetroid). The world map is basically set up like a gimped Metroid Fusion. That is, a ship with a hub area that connects several themed "sectors." However, these areas are completely self contained with one way in and out (the main elevator).

4) Music is terrible (completely unMetroid). The problem is it basically isn't there. Most of the time the background is just low ambient tones, which is strange since this isn't an atmospheric game compared to almost all other Metroids (and most other games for that matter). I remember about three songs from the entire game and they all were used for very short portions of the game (like minutes). Two of these were unremixed things from previous games and the third was an overblown orchestra thing for cinematic. Not good at all.

5) For everyone saying it's a good looking game, I'd really disagree. Some of the inengine cutscenes look really good and have some nice things like field of view effects, but the game proper looks pretty bland. In fact, I'd say overall Metroid Prime still looks better in a lot of ways because of the detail, atmosphere, and just plain good design spun into those games. Characters might look a little better on a technical level in Other M, but environments and character designs look way better in Prime (especially if you're looking the widescreen version in the Trilogy pack). Not bad for an eight year old game. Bad for a two week old game on a slightly more powerful system.

6) Other M lacks weight. People are arguing that it tackles some "real issues" like PTSD, but I say those things are more the product of poor writing and people are trying to make excuses. Metroid Prime sort of had this grounding that made it feel like it could be a place that actually exists. Other M instead feels like a series of toys and definitely a game. Que was perceptive in his earlier predictions. The effect is that there's almost no immersion. I'm not sure if this is really a valid complaint as this is a viable way for games to work, but it's just very unMetroid.

The thing that has me worried is that I feel like this might how Nintendo views what Metroid should be. When they handed it to Retro, it might have been just a throw away since the series was never big in Japan and they figured something should happen with the series. Thankfully, Retro understood what made Metroid unique and interesting. With Other M, I'm seeing a lot of things that existed in Fusion. Metroid is relevant again thanks to Retro's work and now Nintendo wants to go back to things they had in mind from the beginning. I've read interviews where Nintendo's main Metroid guy basically says that they feel Other M is their chance to really show the Metroid they wanted to make. It reminds me of that whole Star Wars thing. Technical limitation kept Lucas in line and he produced something special. However, what made the universe interesting wasn't what Lucas liked and he screwed it all over when he got the chance.

There's also talk that the Primes may not be viewed as canon by Nintendo, which is just a real shame. While the Primes don't actually have much bearing on the story in Other M and don't get mentioned, the fact that Samus has been through that stuff and should be more of a veteran for it doesn't exist. Additionally, stuff like her ability to just look at a computer and take it over via scanning doesn't exist.

Overall, the worst thing about Other M is that it worries me that this is what Metroid will be in the future and that Nintendo doesn't think the work Retro did is worth keeping. Some may disagree because they don't like the idea of Metroid being 3D, but I feel that the Primes were probably the best example of making an old series work with modern mechanics while still remaining true to the original. It's more than just making it 3D, but about making what I envisioned in Metroid to be a believable place while making the core concepts of exploration and isolation feel new and fresh. They found the soul of the old Metroids and made a big game out of them. They also did this without making Samus a cliché or lessening her appeal. What little character they grafted onto her was one who was confident, but not necessarily a guns blazing badass. Other M's new take on the gameplay proper wasn't even bad, it's just the approach to the universe, the setup, to Samus, and the lack of care for details that are real problem. The Primes were a huge achievement and if Other M just set the new "standard" according to Nintendo then they just shat all over that achievement. 
« Last Edit: Friday, September 10, 2010, 07:47:18 AM by sirean_syan »

Offline K-man

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #9 on: Thursday, September 09, 2010, 04:39:28 PM »
Well, that basically killed any excitement I had for the game.

Offline iPPi

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #10 on: Thursday, September 09, 2010, 05:26:55 PM »
I was never a really big Metroid fan, but I had a blast with the Prime series.

When I saw Other M, I had zero interest in the game and now with your impressions of it, I now highly doubt I will ever try the game.

It's too bad the direction they are taking with it, if it does indeed become the new format of Metroid.  Prime was where it's at.

Offline K-man

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #11 on: Thursday, September 09, 2010, 06:54:59 PM »
They just need to make a direct sequel to Super Metroid and I'll be happy.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #12 on: Thursday, September 09, 2010, 11:40:11 PM »
Damn.  I was afraid of a lot of those things and am very sad to see that become the case.

Speaking as a guy who literally has a large, professionally framed piece of Samus fanart hanging in his living room, this is really disappointing.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #13 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 07:03:57 AM »
They just need to make a direct sequel to Super Metroid and I'll be happy.

Looks like Shadow Complex is the best you'll be able to do for a while.  (How ironic that this article is in the Wii section.)

I thought I posted my disgust at impressions of the game.  Maybe on joystiq?  *Goes look*

Oh, yeah.  It was a reaction to joystiq's review, which was oddly positive despite how it read.

Quote from: c0bra95 on 8/27
"The cutscenes were unskippable and initially intolerable.
. . .

Over the course of the game we learn about Samus's life in the military and why she left, mostly through cutscenes. The first couple of hours of the game are heavy on these, and they're melodramatic to the point of silliness."

*Sigh* I'm so sorry to hear that. I wish I found it acceptable, but I don't, not in a Metroid game. Pass.

So that alone turned me off.  Sy's experience drives in the rest of the nails.  RIP Samus.

Offline K-man

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #14 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 07:09:26 AM »
I certainly don't blame them for trying for a fresh take, but removing the Prime games from canon is inexcusable.  They were all excellent games.  I think that makes me more angry than anything.  Retro Studios reinvented that franchise in a way that I thought impossible.  Metroid Prime still looks and plays amazing today.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #15 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 07:22:58 AM »
They just need to make a direct sequel to Super Metroid and I'll be happy.

This is a direct sequel to Super Metroid. That's a big part of the problem.

Honestly, I didn't have much of a problem with how the game played (although I would have loved the ability to use an analog stick), but more how the world was designed and how the characterizations worked. Those were things that set Metroid apart. If this wasn't a Metroid game, but some random experiment it would be a good starting place. Honestly, even the characterization could work if it was the springboard for a new series.

Offline K-man

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #16 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 07:24:33 AM »
Well, when I say "direct sequel", I mean another game using the sprites and textures of Super Metroid.  Make gameplay exactly the same, throw in a new toy or two, and let me wreck some stuff.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #17 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 07:28:22 AM »
Oh, well yeah, that'd be awesome. I think there's fan games out there that does that stuff. I'd have been pretty happy with something like Shadow Complex as well as a sequel as well. The aiming system in that was great and making a 2D Metroid game like that would look beautiful if they had the detail Shadow Complex had. Of course, the Wii would be limited in resolution and such... fucking Nintendo.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #18 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 07:29:03 AM »
If Prime, an 8-year-old GC game, looks better than Other M, what does that say about these developers?  Nothing positive.  Nintendo dissing Retro's efforts tells me that Nintendo has no clue about what makes Metroid work, and they don't deserve to keep their own franchise.

Offline K-man

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #19 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 07:38:06 AM »
I'm half-surprised Other M didn't end up a collection of minigames at this point.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #20 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 07:41:46 AM »
*Sigh*  That's close to my own thoughts.  Nintendo seems determined to take the Wii in a direction I care nothing about.  They'll even sacrifice their former greats in pursuit of that goal.  Now to hope and pray that Zelda escapes that fate.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #21 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 09:11:57 AM »
So where is this proof that Nintendo wants to extinguish everything the Prime games did? That just sounds too stupid to believe.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #22 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 09:21:06 AM »
In terms of the gameplay, it was a matter of ignoring how Prime was more willing to embrace the more freeform exploration of Super Metroid while Other M embraced the more controlled exploration of Metroid Fusion. In terms of the treatment of Samus, there's this:

Quote from: Sakamoto
Depicting the story of Samus Aran in this game was one of the most important game design concepts from the very beginning because before Other M I did not think about what kind of person Samus Aran was and how she thinks and her personality. We did not do that by writing or by letting her speak a lot.

Plus because of the existence of the Metroid Prime series many people might have different ideas about what kind of person Samus Aran was. That was a concern for me because Metroid has already become a solid franchise and probably in the future as well we will be willing to make the sequels.

If many people have different ideas about what kind of person Samus is then there will be some problems about making the future franchise games. So with Other M I really wanted to determine and express what kind of human Samus Aran is so that we can really tell what kind of natural step she should be taking in the future.

Source

Also, the game doesn't really acknowledge anything that Samus might have developed from the Primes but goes out of it's way to reference things like that bad comic book from years ago and Metroid II. There's a scene where the team needs to break into a computer. During the Prime series, Samus did stuff like that effortlessly time and time again. However, they let a military tech struggle through the process. That's a minor thing that was probably done for adding drama or struggle to the story, but it was also strange when the game basically acknowledge how superior Samus was to the team she was with as she opened a door with one missile while they had been working for hours to try and get it open.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #23 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 09:34:06 AM »
I found this.

Quote from: Sakamoto
With regards to the Prime series, if the team at Retro comes up with an idea that does bring a sequel to the series to fruition, I by all means encourage them to do that . . .  But I'm not directly involved with the Prime games. In terms of the Metroid series stories that I've told, the games that I've been involved in, I started with the NES Metroid and took it through Fusion.

http://www.1up.com/news/metroid-creator-talks-future-metroid

From that I take it he doesn't care about what Retro did with the Samus story.  He's politely shoving the Prime series aside, and focusing strictly on his interpretation of the in-house (Nintendo) chapters in the series.

Offline K-man

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #24 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 09:51:19 AM »
I mean I enjoyed Fusion, don't get me wrong.  But I thought Zero Mission was the better game, even though it was a remake.  Fusion's big drawback was that it felt so closed-in.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #25 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 12:50:31 PM »
Yes, I agree.  Zero Mission was the better game, though I enjoyed Fusion as well.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #26 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 05:50:32 PM »
I would second those comments.

Meh.  I don't know.  I play so few games now anyway I can't really even justify buying this, so I guess I'll wait and see someday in the future.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline beo

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #27 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 06:28:26 PM »
well at least i don't need to buy a wii now.

Offline K-man

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #28 on: Friday, September 10, 2010, 06:57:17 PM »
I would second those comments.

Meh.  I don't know.  I play so few games now anyway I can't really even justify buying this, so I guess I'll wait and see someday in the future.

Me too.  I just haven't had time with the house and shit.  I picked up Bayonetta Sunday on clearance at Target and I've barely played past the intro.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Metroid: Other M
« Reply #29 on: Saturday, November 13, 2010, 12:31:32 AM »
Nintendo wonders why Other:M didn't become a hit.

While I would like to say it failed because it took a fat dump all over the franchise, I think it has just as much to do with Nintendo's alienation of the type of person who would care about Metroid. I don't imagine most of Nintendo's current bread and butter have any concept of what Metroid is or even really care. As I understand it, even the Metroid Primes never even really sold that well compared to other big games out there. It shouldn't be a surprise that most who would buy it were in no rush and then wrote the game off when mixed reviews started coming out.

You have to wonder if Nintendo has kind of successed themselves into a corner for the future. Sure, they opened the casual market, but now Sony and Microsoft are butting in. The average Wii customer has what they want from the system and probably won't buy much more. Just like how the core gamers helps a system get off the ground (see the Kinect thread), they also carry game sales in the twilight years. This is especially true for Nintendo as the core audience keep the Gamecube going (that and amazing handheld sales). Now that audience is gone and it's going to take a lot of special work to bring back the goodwill gamers once had for them.