Topic: The right to die.

[Pugnate]

(Warning: Link leads to disturbing image)

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23394290-401,00.html

I don't understand this. If a horse is injured, don't we put it out of its misery? What the hell is this stupid political correctness, when it comes to terminally ill human beings?

[gpw11]

Holy shit.  I read an AP article on this, but there wasn't a picture. 

Anyways, I firmly support euthanasia.   It's actually one of the very few things I support where I don't think the opposition has any ground to stand on at all.

[Pugnate]

I think a lot of it stems from subconscious religious appeasement.

[Quemaqua]

Bullshit.

I think it's because once you open that door, there's no closing it.  People often make the choice to die when it's far from their only option, sometimes when it isn't even a *logical* option, and while it may not be at all applicable to cases like this where it seems the person has no hope or reason to continue living, I think people are simply afraid of going that far because it makes it easier for people to make that decision when it may not be the right one for them.  I don't think religion has anything to do with it whatsoever.

[gpw11]

I'd say it's a good mix of both.  Either way, I still don't think they have a logical leg to stand on.

[Cobra951]

I fully support someone's choice to end their own life.  I fully oppose the choice to end someone else's life.

[nickclone]

Bullshit.

I think it's because once you open that door, there's no closing it.  People often make the choice to die when it's far from their only option, sometimes when it isn't even a *logical* option, and while it may not be at all applicable to cases like this where it seems the person has no hope or reason to continue living, I think people are simply afraid of going that far because it makes it easier for people to make that decision when it may not be the right one for them.  I don't think religion has anything to do with it whatsoever.

I think religion has everything to do with it. Its the same reason why abortion and same sex marriage is such a controversial issue, it goes against God's way? However, I don't think its because of the religious people in this country. I believe its because of religious politicians trying to work their own religious agenda.

[Cobra951]

You can't separate some people from their religions.  It's part of who they are.  That's why some topics like this one and abortion will always be controversial, will always be a fight.  Always.

[Pugnate]

I'd say it's a good mix of both.

Exactly. I think it would be foolish to say otherwise.

I think people are simply afraid of going that far because it makes it easier for people to make that decision when it may not be the right one for them.

I agree that it may be one of the factors. Still, with regulation, there is no reason to have that fear. As long as doctors are part of the process, patients abusing mercy killing won't be a factor unless you've got corrupt doctors in the mix.

Bullshit.

I don't think religion has anything to do with it whatsoever.

You are obviously hard set on this with your absolute opposition to the very idea, so ummm...I don't know what to say. I am not sure how you can deny that religion has nothing to do with it whatsoever, but yea.

I personally think many people -- even some athiests -- have religion affect their thought process on some level of subconsciousness. It is something so very ingrained in the upbringing of so many. Plus, a lot of the lawmakers with the seniority to handle such a delicate case grew up in a period where religion was given far more prominence than it is today.

I think euthanasia will be legalized eventually as the younger citizens of today become tomorrow's lawmakers. I am just looking at some stats that say 69% of Americans and 60% of Britishers feel it should be legalized for patients with terminal illness. The articles say that five years ago, the stats were far less in favor. I personally think this has to do with religion having less of an influence than it did before.

Anyway some facts:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/euthanasia/overview/asstdyingbill_1.shtml

Latest: Assisted Dying Bill, May 2006

The House of Lords has blocked a bill that would allow terminally ill people to be helped to die.

Lord Joffe's bill, which had its second reading on Friday 12th May 2006, proposed that after signing a legal declaration that they wanted to die, a patient's doctor could prescribe a lethal dose of medication that the patient could take themselves.

Only people with less than six months to live, who are suffering unbearably and deemed to be of sound mind and not depressed would be able to end their life under Lord Joffe's proposal.

Peers spent the day in a passionate debate on whether or not it was right to allow a person who was terminally ill to be given drugs they could then use to end their own life.

Lord Joffe said: "We must find a solution to the unbearable suffering of patients whose needs cannot be met by palliative care."

Peers backed an amendment to delay the bill for six months by 48 votes. (148 were in favour and 100 opposed.)

Lord Joffe said the move was intended to end the debate, but pledged to reintroduce his bill at a later date.

The government has said it will not block a further hearing of the bill.

The debate highlighted divisions between supporters of the right to die and those who want better palliative care.

Amongst those Lords against the bill were the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams, Lady Finlay, a professor in palliative care and Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor, Archbishop of Westminster. They urged more to be done instead to improve palliative care for terminally ill patients. These Lords were also supported by disability campaigners.

Opponents to the bill demonstrated outside Parliament and submitted a petition to Downing Street which was signed by 100,000 people.

The bill's supporters said doctors should be able to prescribe drugs so a terminally ill person suffering terrible pain could choose to end his or her life.

These included Labour's Baroness David aged 92. She said:

    If I were terminally ill, I believe I would be the only person with the right to decide how I died, and whether I preferred palliative care to assisted dying.

    It would provide me with an additional option on how to end my life, which I would find tremendously reassuring.
    Baroness David, Labour peer

Mark Slattery, of the charity Dignity in Dying, formerly the Voluntary Euthanasia Society, said the campaign to introduce an assisted dying bill would continue. Julia Millington of the ProLife Alliance welcomed the Lords' decision and stated they would continue to resist any change in the law.

Check this whole link out. Pretty interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/euthanasia/

Presents arguments from both sides, with many points, incl. religion.

[Quemaqua]

I'm not saying there aren't religious people who don't believe in euthanasia, I'm saying I don't think they have any bearing on whether or not assisted suicide is made legal.  Most of the people I've talked to about it are still very leery of it even though they aren't religious people.  There are a lot of people who are afraid to make the leap, not just religious types, and in the case of many court cases I think religion has nothing to do with it *at all*.  That's more what I was referring to.  This is a French court, keep in mind.  My understanding (which granted maybe be totally flawed) is that religious belief holds far less sway there than it does in, say, a US court (where it barely holds any anyway).

In either case I'd still say that this has *overall* little to do with religion.  It's like pot... it isn't legal because nobody wants to give drug use any further ground, and making one thing legal just makes it that much easier to make the decision to move to something else.  Does pot really hurt anybody?  Give me a fucking break.  The PSAs here are so overblown and lame.  You can abuse anything, but this stuff borders on comedy.  Still, even a lot of people who have no specific objection to pot use will often tell you they think it shouldn't be legalized because it moves the issue along the scale, and things *always* erode as time goes on.  History shows this time and time again.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree on the euthanasia thing, I'm only stating what I've observed.  Even most religious people I've talked to don't generally object to euthanasia for religious reasons, at least amongst my personal circle.

[shock]

I can't think of a more inherent right than the right to terminate your own life at a time of your choosing, regardless of the circumstances.  I understand that no one is infringing upon this right, but there is no reason that this cannot be humane (IE I shouldn't have to throw myself from a 40 story building and splatter all over the street to have a relatively painless way.  And I shouldn't have to shoot myself and bleed to death.  That is inhumane).  I become very frustrated when people say things 'Oh, Johnny will be feeling better

Que: We must have different circles!    Nearly all of my Christian friends are quick to point out the verse (you'll have to excuse me, because I cannot recall it) in the Bible that states something like 'God chooses when to begin life and to end life'.  That is why there is such a Christian backlash against suicide and euthanasia, or so I thought.

[Cobra951]

To a Catholic, suicide is a mortal sin.  "Mortal" as in you're damned to hell (as opposed to venial sin).  Correct me if I'm wrong, but except for England, Europe is still dominated by Catholic mores.  That includes France.

[Ghandi]

From a religous standpoint, one can take the stance that since God has granted us life it is not ours to take. This is my understanding of why it is a sin in the church, though I could be wrong. I generally agree with it - I certainly don't consider it a right to take you own life. I do think that there are circumstances where it is acceptable, though (such as in the case posted above).

[Raisa]

bah.. it all boils down to personal choice doesn't it?  whether or not something is correct according to the laws of Mother Nature, if a person is bent on doing what he/she wants, there really isn't much onlookers can do.  A person just needs to put up with the consequences of his/her actions and not blame anyone when they're going through hell.

As far as euthanasia goes, personally I don't go with what the Church or any so-called religion says.  But i just wish that people learn to see and feel beyond so-called compassion.

[gpw11]

Chick found dead today.  Surprise!

[angrykeebler]

serious thread is serious

[Cobra951]

*Sigh*  Yes.  So tragic.