Author Topic: 3D Realms closes down  (Read 10788 times)

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #40 on: Saturday, May 09, 2009, 10:44:42 PM »
Damn it.  That actually looks pretty effing awesome.  Now I'm even more sad.

I think I really have to reinstall Duke3D now.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline W7RE

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #41 on: Saturday, May 09, 2009, 10:59:45 PM »
Yea some of the environments look a little stale, but damnit there's so much style in that video, a lot of which I think comes from animation. The monster animations seem really good.

Not only does this video make me want to play Duke3D, but it also makes me want to model and animate. I haven't done that in over 3 years.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #42 on: Saturday, May 09, 2009, 11:03:06 PM »
How come you stopped doing all that stuff?  Did you stop enjoying it, or was it just... life?  I was hoping you and Dustin were going to team up and build some ultraviolent game that would blow our minds.

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Offline W7RE

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #43 on: Saturday, May 09, 2009, 11:12:36 PM »
I don't know, once I got into college and it became work, I lost interest. I did the bare minimum of work for my classes, or sometimes less, and other classes I failed because I skipped too much (and more than 3 absences in 1 quarter = automatically fail that class).

Before college I was spending all my free time editing Day of Defeat models and textures, and I'd been toying with the Doom and Duke3D engines a lot back in the day (with very little time in the unreal engine as well.) First 6 months of school I went hardcore, but that was mostly precursory stuff like perspective and color theory. By the time I got into texturing and modelling classes I was bored and didn't want to do it. Sometimes I think it's because I wasn't able to make stuff that I wanted to (bloody, violent, monsters, etc), but other times I think it's because it became work instead of play.

I still wouldn't mind getting back on the horse, maybe finishing school (I only have 1 year left to get my bachelor's), but I can't convince myself I'll do well at it and enjoy it. Plus I barely know how to model and texture map, and thinking about all the different mapping that goes on a model these days, shaders, etc is sort of daunting. Last time I modelled anything, it was for Half-Life and each model was 1 model file and 1 texture wrap. I'd have lots of learning and catching up to do.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #44 on: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:22:15 AM »
I wish I could do something like that.  There's nothing worse in life than being a creative person who spends 90% of every day in the most uncreative, stifling, suffocating, suicide-inducing office job imaginable.  I never got good enough at anything else or figured out early enough what it was I was really good at.  Now it's too late.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #45 on: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:28:08 AM »
Bullshit.  I wish I could rewind the clock 25 years.  Good God, man.  You have plenty of time.  I know much of your day is full, and that sucks.  But too late?  Never!

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #46 on: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:38:04 AM »
Too late easily.  I couldn't conceivably make what I make now at any creative job that isn't pretty uppity like a lead director or something, and since I married a disabled woman who can't work, that's it.  I'm done.  We require this income and can never get away from that whether I have the skills for something else or not.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #47 on: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:41:06 AM »
Yeah, I understand you have to do what you have to do.  Working toward a more fulfilling future would have to come on top of that busy time.  You'd probably have to give up most gaming to achieve it.  That's easier said than done.  I know that all too well.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #48 on: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:44:03 AM »
Well, even aside from the time issue it's the money issue too.  Especially in this economy.  If I could guarantee a creative job with a salary I could live off of, that'd be fine and no sacrifice would feel unbalanced, but right now I'm lucky to even have a job, let alone one that pays this well.  My hands are tied.  Believe me, I think about it every fucking day.  Not a single day goes by when I don't wonder about what I might have done differently.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #49 on: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 03:58:28 AM »
I just saw the 3 min vid on The Shack (vid linked again in case someone doesn't feel like DLing it and wants to see it streamed).

Holy crap. That whole thing -- seeing the game in early phases in modeling and animating and stuff -- and then seeing the game in action looked EXACTLY what I was hoping for in DNF. This makes me even sadder that 3DR is gone AND that it is still -- after over 13 years -- not done.

Seriously, though -- some company really needs to look at this IP, look at what 3DR did to see what's already there for all the game assets (especially if there's a fair deal of content already there); buy the IP and assets; and just pick up from there and where they left off; and just finish this goddamn game!

Human Head Studios still in business? They did takeover Prey from 3DR -- someone call them now!

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #50 on: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 09:15:31 AM »
Seriously.  Someone should just buy the work, the money can bolster Apogee's current operations (and it would be awesome to see a flurry of really old-school style Duke 2D games), and the world can finally play DNF and likely enjoy it.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #51 on: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:34:27 PM »
Agreed 100% Que.

Offline scottws

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #52 on: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 07:24:12 PM »
Wow, saw the vid...  That looked pretty awesome.  Too bad 3D Realms couldn't pull it together or if the chair story is true then it's a shame their plan didn't work out.

Offline MysterD

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Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #54 on: Monday, May 11, 2009, 04:54:07 PM »
Are we sure this isn't a publicity stunt?  We haven't seen this much footage even cumulatively since the game was announced, and now everybody's talking about it, and on top of that, saying it looks fun!  This blows.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #55 on: Monday, May 11, 2009, 04:57:27 PM »
I would not be surprised if Ex-3DR artists are pushin' all of this stuff out suddenly to get somebody to go after the IP and finish the game.

It's either that or I wouldn't be surprised if the game suddenly goes freakin' GOLD.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #56 on: Monday, May 11, 2009, 06:00:15 PM »
It would do my heart good if somewhere a new movie surfaced on the internet, and a couple seconds in we hear Duke say "You think the closure of one studio's gonna' stop me?" and there are bunch of explosions and stuff and he kills like 27 dudes with nothing but his ego.  And then it's just him dancing with topless chicks for the next two minutes on top of a giant gold-plated DVD.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #57 on: Monday, May 11, 2009, 06:24:09 PM »
I'd drink to that, Que!

Offline MysterD

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #58 on: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 03:38:58 PM »

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #59 on: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 04:48:18 PM »
I bet you a lot of people would be pissed, but I think it'd be hilarious.  I hope it's true.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野


Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #61 on: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 09:08:43 PM »
Reinstalled the game tonight and played through a bunch of it.  Man, it was good times.  I'd forgotten how much fun it is.  Holds up pretty well for being so old.  The level design still feels pretty creative, and it's still ridiculously satisfying to blow dudes up with rockets.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline W7RE

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #62 on: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 11:04:26 PM »
Since jumping back in and playing Duke again recently, I've noticed it's a lot less linear than a lot of modern FPS.


Modern FPS: (I'm using HL2 as a basis, since I just finished it and it's fresh in my mind) Gameplay is linear, though not a straight line. Sometimes the path is not obvious and you have to look for it, which sort of makes you feel like you're not having your hand held. Occasionally the path will split, but 90% of the time one of the paths will be a dead end with some items/powerups. (leading to the small frustration of realizing you took the real path, but you'd rather have takent he dead end first, for the powerups.)

Duke3D: In the first level, you can go through the side entrance of the theater, or the locked up front entrance (if you know where to get the rocket launcher). When you get to the lobby, you can go to the bathroom, up to the arcade, or up to the projection room, and they all connect with secret passages or air ducts. Then when you grab the jetpack it opens up a bit more of the level, and when you go back to areas you've cleared, there's more enemies a lot of times. The whole damn map feels like a big playground. It's like a lot of the maps were designed with deathmatch in mind, and they feel like playgrounds to explore while blowing away aliens. I'd almost go as far as saying it's got the feel of a sandbox game, but on a very small scale. Enemies are in specific places, and then you can come at them from wherever.



Side rant: anyone else feel like shooters that give you a squad feel even more linear? They're telling you exactly where to go, and you've got guys yelling at you to get there, so you don't get to explore. (I'm thinking back at early levels (the only parts I've played, big surprise) of CoD4. At least in Half-Life 2 you're plot-important AI teammates are invincible, and the rest are expendable and on auto-follow.

Offline Xessive

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #63 on: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 03:18:07 AM »
Duke3D was something else. I'd go as far as saying it was ahead of its time in terms of structure. It wasn't story-driven but it made you want to push further into it.

Linear is not necessarily a bad thing but it is detrimental when the game's pitch is that it's non-linear.

Side rant: anyone else feel like shooters that give you a squad feel even more linear? They're telling you exactly where to go, and you've got guys yelling at you to get there, so you don't get to explore. (I'm thinking back at early levels (the only parts I've played, big surprise) of CoD4. At least in Half-Life 2 you're plot-important AI teammates are invincible, and the rest are expendable and on auto-follow.
I agree about the squad-based stuff. I think the real reason is having a squad complicates things and they'd have to program a whole new complex AI structure to support the non-linear approach while still being effective and directly influential. Ghost Recon tried it by giving you the map and your choice of approach by allowing you to remotely control your squadmates via the overhead map. It was ok but it didn't appeal to everyone. Prince of Persia (2008) gave you the open world and a partner but they had to sever her independance, she's essentially an extension of the main character as far as gameplay goes.

Republic Commando is a classic example of the linear squad-based approach. While it was linear it was varied in how the player chose to position his squad. It was a fun game!

More recently the Rainbow Six franchise has moved away from its traditional style (very similar to Ghost Recon but in close-quarters) to a more linear style as in the Vegas series.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #64 on: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 06:26:05 AM »
All good points.  I've noticed the same.

Though it's interesting that you mention Duke3D's maps feeling deathmatchy, because that game has some of the most crazy fun DM ever.  Seriously.  My friend and I used to just play simple 1v1 matches when he'd bring his computer over, but because of a bug you could use the "view coop screen" key to view the screen of your friend when playing a 1v1 deathmatch, which just made it hysterical.  You always at least sorta' knew what the other guy was up to, but you couldn't abuse it too much or you'd end up watching him kill you.  If we played without that feature, the game had a different dynamic with all the hiding spots and crazy little nooks.  The airborne jetpack battles were also good fun.  There really hasn't been anything quite like it since.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline W7RE

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #65 on: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 08:38:20 AM »
Most of the multiplayer maps for Duke3D were the single player levels, right? I mean, not based on the SP levels, but the exact same map, just with no enemies spawned. I think there were like 2-3 MP only maps.

Offline scottws

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #66 on: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 09:06:29 AM »
Most of the multiplayer maps for Duke3D were the single player levels, right? I mean, not based on the SP levels, but the exact same map, just with no enemies spawned. I think there were like 2-3 MP only maps.
Yeah, if I remember correctly, that's how it was.  Though I only had the shareware copy.  I never played the full game.

Great times.  A guy at work and I would play all the time.  We'd grab the jetpacks and go to the level with the rocket and just fly around shooting rockets at each other.  It was hilarious.

Offline MysterD

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #67 on: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 02:40:14 PM »
Reinstalled the game tonight and played through a bunch of it.  Man, it was good times.  I'd forgotten how much fun it is.  Holds up pretty well for being so old.  The level design still feels pretty creative, and it's still ridiculously satisfying to blow dudes up with rockets.

A lot of great things in DNF -- such as The Shrink Ray gun, The Expander Gun, The Trip Wire Explosives, Piper Bombs, The Hologram Duke Item, and of course THE JETPACK!!!

Offline W7RE

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #68 on: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 05:07:30 PM »
Man I really want to play DNF now.  ::)

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #69 on: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 05:08:40 PM »
Seriously.  This is bad.  Is there any decent way to play online using eduke32?  Maybe we could all Gameranger up and do some DM?  Because that would be fucking fantastic.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #70 on: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 07:25:56 PM »
Seriously.  This is bad.  Is there any decent way to play online using eduke32?  Maybe we could all Gameranger up and do some DM?  Because that would be fucking fantastic.

I would so love to play DN3D Multiplayer. Never played it, actually.

Offline W7RE

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #71 on: Monday, May 18, 2009, 06:08:34 PM »
Apparently 3D Realms is not really closed, just the DNF has been let go and work on the game has stopped.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58681

What I'm getting from this is that Take Two gave 3DR a little of 2 million last year, then led them on with the promise of a deal to give them more. then at the last minute they offered to buy out the game and the team working on it. Sort of a hostile takover type thing. 3DR said hell no, and had to stop work on DNF, letting the dev team go.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #72 on: Monday, May 18, 2009, 06:48:54 PM »
That's a drag.  But hey, at least the whole entity isn't shutting down.  But I thought they were finishing with that name and only keeping the Apogee brand going?

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline W7RE

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #73 on: Monday, May 18, 2009, 06:55:51 PM »
From what I've gathered, the Apogee name is associated with 3D Realms, but is not 3DR themselves. For example the portable Duke Nukem games coming from Apogee, 3DR has nothing to do with those. I think what it is is that 3DR was originally part of Apogee, then borke off. Both parties probably still support the older Apogee titles they made, but Duke3D and DNF are 3DR titles and theirs alone (well, with TT owning the publishing rights to DNF still).

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #74 on: Monday, May 18, 2009, 06:57:00 PM »
I was under the impression that 3DR still owned Apogee, though.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline scottws

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #75 on: Monday, May 18, 2009, 06:59:03 PM »
I actually read that 3D Realms was just a brand name of a company called Apogee.  That 3D Realms was really Apogee legally, but just went by 3D Realms.

Offline W7RE

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #76 on: Monday, May 18, 2009, 07:28:12 PM »
Now I don't even know what the relation is between 3DR and Apogee. The fact that the handheld Duke trilogy was unafected by the "closing" of 3DR led me to believe they were their own entity, so if 3DR shut down completely Apogee would be fine still. Of course since 3DR isn't actually closing down, maybe they ARE working on the handheld stuff (or something else), and it was unaffected becasue it was just the DNF team that was let go.

Bottom line though, 3DR did not close down and DNF isn't cancelled yet. They just fired the team and stopped working on it. ;D

Offline scottws

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #77 on: Monday, May 18, 2009, 07:31:22 PM »
Sweet.  Now a new team can do a rewrite on id Tech 5 and develop for another couple of years until Unreal Engine 4 is out.

Offline W7RE

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #78 on: Monday, May 18, 2009, 07:50:08 PM »
Sweet.  Now a new team can do a rewrite on id Tech 5 and develop for another couple of years until Unreal Engine 4 is out.

As long as the dream lives on, I'm happy.

Offline MysterD

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Re: 3D Realms closes down
« Reply #79 on: Monday, May 18, 2009, 08:48:24 PM »
Sweet.  Now a new team can do a rewrite on id Tech 5 and develop for another couple of years until Unreal Engine 4 is out.

ROFLMAO!