Topic: Retail threatens Steam ban

[idolminds]

Story

'We will refuse to sell Steam games’ blast High Street giants; Digital distributors losing customers to giant rival

The world's biggest digital distribution platform for games is under attack.

MCV understands that key retailers will drop titles that integrate the popular Steam service as fears mount that the service has a ‘monopoly’ on the download market.

Insiders say Steam, run by US studio Valve, serves a massive 80 per cent of the PC download sector. And retailers preparing their own rival platforms don’t want that share to grow any more.

Some of the biggest PC games – such as Call of Duty and Fallout – use Steam. But retailers are concerned that selling games with the tech built-in pushes users towards only buying games via Valve going forward.

At least two major retailers will demand that publishers remove Steam from their games – or they will not sell them in any form.
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“If we have a digital service, then I don’t want to start selling a rival in-store,” said the digital boss at one of the biggest UK games retailers.

“Publishers are creating a monster ­– we are telling suppliers to stop using Steam in their games.”

The head of sales at a big-name digital service provider agreed: “At the moment the big digital distributors need to stock games with Steam. But the power resides with bricks and mortar retailers, they can refuse to stock these titles. Publishers are hesitant, but retail must put pressure on them.”

Gaikai CEO David Perry told MCV Steam could become the games-equivilent of iTunes, where it dictates the terms of the market, not the other way around: “Steam has made it so easy for everyone and they have lots of users. But how long do you wait before you take control of your own digital strategy? Like with iTunes, at some point it’s going to be too late.”

You knew this was coming.

[Quemaqua]

I think it's great, personally.  I want a disconnect between Steam and retail.  I think Steam has every right to exist and make money at what it does, but I'm tired of buying something at retail that requires me to use it.  That's shit.  If you like Steam, then buy products from it and use it, but I'm sick and tired of being forced into using a separate product that I don't like or support to play a game that shouldn't require it.  If I buy a retail box, give me a fucking retail box, don't force me into this other crap.  So if retail stores want to ban Steam games, I'd be more than happy to know that what I'm looking at on the shelf is a product I'll be able to actually sit down and use rather than having to jump through hoops to get it going.

[scottws]

This is one of those things that could go either way.  Retail is quickly becoming a non-factor in the PC market and something like this could really put a nail in the coffin for them.  It's not like the retailers are speaking from a position of strength on this.

[Pugnate]

Yea but this is coming from the UK retailers, who as I understand it, still have a presence with PC gaming. Yea, the problem is that retailers aren't doing anything to help the PC gaming cause anyway.

edit:

OK, from the comments section it seems that the UK PC gaming retail space is as inadequate as it is stateside. What is the point of complaining, when they don't care anyway. There is a reason why games like Civ5 are going Steam only.

I bought Civ5 on Steam, but didn't think it would be fair to have to buy another copy for my sis. So I looked on the magic underworld store, and apparently it is really difficult to crack!

[idolminds]

From what I gathered in the article, those retail places are planning their own DD services.

And retailers preparing their own rival platforms don’t want that share to grow any more.

So they are just joining the likes of Impulse and GamersGate that don't want to seel games that come with a competing store. They just so happen to also run retail stores where they can deny sales there as well.

I hate a lot of the comments that seem to miss the point completely. Its not that Steam does so well, its not that everyone loves Steam, they don't want Steam to die and go away completely. They just want to be able to sell games that don't require Steam. It makes no sense for them to sell the games otherwise.

I think it would do Valve good to separate the store client from the overlay/friends list. The overlay can run when you launch the game, log you in to Steam friends, verify that you can run it, etc. But the store should be separate and not required to be installed. Then a lot of these issues would go away (plus each game could have their own customized overlay and wouldn't need to be patched and updated all the god damn time.)

[Xessive]

Ideally I'd like the option of both. There has to be a moderate area to satisfy both retail and digital distribution markets.

As I see it, the retail market is still unrivaled when it comes to beautifully packaged collectors' editions with worthy collectors' items; as opposed to crummy digital CE's with unlock codes for arbitrary or redundant in-game items. I think they need to play to that strength.

Digital distribution, assuming you have an above-average internet connection, is extremely convenient for stereotypically sedentary PC gamers. However, it does truly shine when it comes to the smaller, casual games which don't warrant any unnecessary packaging and very easy to download even with a substandard internet connection (not specifically directed at Idol!).

Personally, I still prefer getting my major game titles through retail shops.

[MysterD]

Ideally, I think Retail needs to prove to me why I'm spending usually MORE $$ for their version of the game. B/c Steam, G4WL, Impulse, EA Online Download Store now even - most of these DD places make the prices that I see at most Retail places look bad and embarrassing currently; especially during major markdowns, "weekend" sales, or "holiday" sales. Retail wonders why when PC game units ain't moving off the shelf, yet companies are beginning to side w/ DD instead? It's b/c DD actually sells!

When Retail games require Steam, why the heck should I buy that version from Retail? A lot of times - you don't get a manual or you get a very small manual; a game disc; and that's it. I might as well save some money and buy the Steam version. Especially given how often Steam has crazy sales and whatnot - Retail's almost getting to the point of being useless.

Risen: Steam version is on sale right now is $15.99 this weekend. Everywhere else at Retail is around $40 (Amazon, GameStop, Best Buy, etc). Gamersgate is selling it now at $29.95 to download. I'm sorry, but what version do *YOU* think I'm gonna buy today? 

Retail keeps finding more and more ways for me, for the most part, to be almost useless. We had that recent discussion about how botched Relic's Company of Heroes patching system was. DD versions of COH through Steam or Impulse -  I bet you'd never have to worry about this crap of file integrity and patching - it'll just update it completely to newest said version. And if I need to - I'll just "Archive" the entire game and put that "Archive" on some discs (CD's or DVD's). This is the power of an online system like Steam, Impulse, or any other DD using such a system.

[Xessive]

Digital distribution solutions only offer better prices during special sales events.. Otherwise retail is always cheaper, especially on new releases, at least in my case.

Call of Duty: Black Ops cost me $50 from a local retailer but it costs $60 on Steam; heck Modern Warfare 2 still costs $60 and even it only cost me about $50 when I bought it on release day.

The advantage that private retailers have is that they can have their own special offers and promotions.

[MysterD]

Digital distribution solutions only offer better prices during special sales events.. Otherwise retail is always cheaper, especially on new releases, at least in my case.

Call of Duty: Black Ops cost me $50 from a local retailer but it costs $60 on Steam; heck Modern Warfare 2 still costs $60 and even it only cost me about $50 when I bought it on release day.

The advantage that private retailers have is that they can have their own special offers and promotions.

D2D had the best deal for COD: Black Ops last weekend (and many other new games, too) - they had 25% off ALL games over $49.99 using code "BIGSAVINGS".

Retailers every week give "sale events" - they're part of the weekly flyer. 

Also, Steam often will throw in free games (often from same dev, publisher, or series) and sometimes other junk retailers don't toss in - since they often have to also be the same price as retail upon release, since retailers have before thought about banning Steam-only games from their shop.

[idolminds]

Reading everyones reactions to this news story around the internet today was probably the most disheartening thing I've done in a while. Not only is retail apparently dead/should be killed but the sooner everything requires Steam the happier we all will be.

My favorite responses are the ones that still believe Steam has to keep their prices high because retail demands they can't be undercut, and with the complete eradication of evil ol' retail we will see the prices of new games on Steam go down. What planet are they from I wonder?

EDIT

And since I'm tired and typing late at night, I might as well add this. I had a funny thought that I didnt see anyone else think about. Everyone loves Steam because if gives them some value, and sure they *could* do bad things with all the power we've handed them but its Valve and they love us and Gabe Newell will live forever and ever in a magic cave made from gummy bears. Besides, its not a monopoly! Anyone else can set up a DD service and sell non-steam games!

True.

However, theres an angle people are missing. We now have several companies that are making all their PC releases Steamworks titles (or at least require Steam). Want it on PC? Then you'll be using Steam. 2K seems to be doing this, same as THQ. All fine and dandy as long as Valve plays nice. They aren't making any demands...yet. But what happens when, say, every PC game THQ releases for the next 5 years is only on Steam. Thats going to be a number of titles. Now what if Valve starts making demands that THQ doesnt like...whats THQ going to do? Probably not stay partnered with Valve. Their future games won't need Steam, but what about every game from the last 5 years? If they pull them from Steam then they have essentially pulled them from the market entirely. Thats leverage Valve will have to start making such demands. "What are you doing to do, recode and rerelease ALL those games?"

But Valve would never start making demands from people. Except they already do if you aren't a big fish. Dins Curse was turned down for sale on Steam even though every other DD service carries it. Why? Because the developer wanted to charge $25 for it and Valve wanted them to sell for less.


Also it seems strange that I'm not into conspiracy theories because it seems like I'd be really good at making them up.

[Ghandi]

5 years from now this exact same discussion will take place about the console market.

[Cobra951]

Once Valve starts abusing its monopolistic power, the shit hits the fan.  They'll get sued by the big boys who are getting shafted, the DOJ will get involved under the Sherman Act, and at least big money will trade hands.  At most, Steam will be nerfed, broken up, or whatever.

[Pugnate]

The other issue is that the media is so biased. When Steam eventually does become the monopolistic monster, will publications like PC gamer be willing to accept some of the blame?

On this week's PC Gamer Podcast: Why it's so appropriate
that Call of Duty: Black Ops begins with your hands tied, listener questions read in a Russian accent, Dan becomes the first editor to podcast from quarantine
and dies on air, UK retailers throw a hissy fit, and constant interruptions from a mysterious Czech lady.

[MysterD]

However, theres an angle people are missing. We now have several companies that are making all their PC releases Steamworks titles (or at least require Steam). Want it on PC? Then you'll be using Steam. 2K seems to be doing this, same as THQ. All fine and dandy as long as Valve plays nice. They aren't making any demands...yet. But what happens when, say, every PC game THQ releases for the next 5 years is only on Steam. Thats going to be a number of titles. Now what if Valve starts making demands that THQ doesnt like...whats THQ going to do? Probably not stay partnered with Valve. Their future games won't need Steam, but what about every game from the last 5 years? If they pull them from Steam then they have essentially pulled them from the market entirely. Thats leverage Valve will have to start making such demands. "What are you doing to do, recode and rerelease ALL those games?"

But Valve would never start making demands from people. Except they already do if you aren't a big fish. Dins Curse was turned down for sale on Steam even though every other DD service carries it. Why? Because the developer wanted to charge $25 for it and Valve wanted them to sell for less.


Also it seems strange that I'm not into conspiracy theories because it seems like I'd be really good at making them up.

THQ will probably go w/ G4WL.

THQ is in discussions right now w/ Microsoft about G4WL, since M$ is overhauling the hell out of it w/ version 4.0 - but yeah, it is quite clear - them and many of their developers prefer Steamworks.
See the Thread on THQ's very own Danny Bilson (who actually is actress Rachel Bilson's dad).

[Pugnate]

Reading everyones reactions to this news story around the internet today was probably the most disheartening thing I've done in a while. Not only is retail apparently dead/should be killed but the sooner everything requires Steam the happier we all will be.

My favorite responses are the ones that still believe Steam has to keep their prices high because retail demands they can't be undercut, and with the complete eradication of evil ol' retail we will see the prices of new games on Steam go down. What planet are they from I wonder?

EDIT

And since I'm tired and typing late at night, I might as well add this. I had a funny thought that I didnt see anyone else think about. Everyone loves Steam because if gives them some value, and sure they *could* do bad things with all the power we've handed them but its Valve and they love us and Gabe Newell will live forever and ever in a magic cave made from gummy bears. Besides, its not a monopoly! Anyone else can set up a DD service and sell non-steam games!

True.

However, theres an angle people are missing. We now have several companies that are making all their PC releases Steamworks titles (or at least require Steam). Want it on PC? Then you'll be using Steam. 2K seems to be doing this, same as THQ. All fine and dandy as long as Valve plays nice. They aren't making any demands...yet. But what happens when, say, every PC game THQ releases for the next 5 years is only on Steam. Thats going to be a number of titles. Now what if Valve starts making demands that THQ doesnt like...whats THQ going to do? Probably not stay partnered with Valve. Their future games won't need Steam, but what about every game from the last 5 years? If they pull them from Steam then they have essentially pulled them from the market entirely. Thats leverage Valve will have to start making such demands. "What are you doing to do, recode and rerelease ALL those games?"

But Valve would never start making demands from people. Except they already do if you aren't a big fish. Dins Curse was turned down for sale on Steam even though every other DD service carries it. Why? Because the developer wanted to charge $25 for it and Valve wanted them to sell for less.


Also it seems strange that I'm not into conspiracy theories because it seems like I'd be really good at making them up.

Just like one version of a game uses Steamworks, while a previous installment used another DRM, I don't think publishers would have any problems switching to another service if Valve starts to pull any crap. Sure, their old stuff will remain on Steam, but what is of most concern is the latest.

What seems obvious is that Steam games seem to be harder to crack.

Like I said, I am in no mood to pay another $55 for Civ5, just so that my sis can play it. I still haven't found a copy of the game in the magic underworld store, which hasn't been facing complaints.

[idolminds]

Might just be where you're looking. Skidrow released Civ5 and the torrent I saw has nearly 7,000 seeds.

[MysterD]

I think it would do Valve good to separate the store client from the overlay/friends list. The overlay can run when you launch the game, log you in to Steam friends, verify that you can run it, etc. But the store should be separate and not required to be installed. Then a lot of these issues would go away (plus each game could have their own customized overlay and wouldn't need to be patched and updated all the god damn time.)

I'll go one step further - once I activate a Steam game through Steam, especially if it's a SP game, I should never have to run the Steam program again period. That Steam program stuff - store, client, Friends list, etc - that stuff should all be optional like how Impulse handles itself.

Also, since Steamworks is DRM itself - 3rd party DRM should NOT be allowed on Steam.

If Valve is going to allow games to have 3rd party DRM (Tages, Securom, etc), that should be the only DRM - The Steamworks DRM should be disabled for that particular game.