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Community => Entertainment => Topic started by: scottws on Tuesday, February 18, 2014, 08:51:42 PM
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Anyone watching True Detective? I've been blown away by it, even more than when I saw the Battlestar Gallactica mini series for the first time. That is saying something! I'm hopelessly hooked. The production values are top-notch and there is a triple-threat in the screenwriting, direction, and acting.
If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and start getting caught up now. There have only been five episodes so far so it's not too late.
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I'm actually going to start watching it soon, looking at the trailers and hearing good things its got me really curious.
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I haven't seen shit on it except for one article that extensively detailed the influence of Robert W. Chambers and The King in Yellow on the show, so I'm already on board. I'll definitely try to watch it at some point when it hits Netflix or something.
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I haven't seen shit on it except for one article that extensively detailed the influence of Robert W. Chambers and The King in Yellow on the show, so I'm already on board. I'll definitely try to watch it at some point when it hits Netflix or something.
It's a HBO show. Do any of those end up on Netflix?
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I haven't the slightest, I don't really watch TV. Hence the "or something". We don't even have TV in the house, let alone HBO.
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Ah. I don't think HBO shows are available on Netflix, but I haven't used Netflix in a long time so I'm not sure.
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If it turns out as good as everybody's been saying, I'll probably snag the DVDs later on down the line if no other option presents itself.
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Caught up to episode 5. Man this is really fucking good.
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Yup, it's amazyballs!
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Not sure how I feel about tonight's episode. I definitely liked the last one more. This one seemed to unnecessarily use the whole hour to provide laser focus on a character flaw.
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No doubt because the last couple of episodes had a lot of action. :)
[spoiler]I think it's to reenforce Rust's point about everything repeating itself, people making the same mistakes, etc., and to provide yet another catalyst for him to go do his own thing outside of it all (whatever that may or may not be). [/spoiler]
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I've been thinking about the episode more, and it seemed to point out two things to me. [spoiler]One is that, for one reason or another, Rust has become withdrawn and doesn't seem to trust anyone at all. That's why he's investigating on his own. The other is that Marty is the type of person that acts instinctively and doesn't seem to think about the consequences for his actions. If he does think about them, he can't control himself regardless.
Why did the episode burn a whole hour with this late characterization? After all, there are only two episodes left. Despite the writers doing things to cast some level of suspicion on Rust, I would be surprised if he isn't just intensely focused on getting to the bottom of it and bringing some form of justice to the perps. I would be much less surprised if Marty is involved. Don't get me wrong, I don't really think Marty is part of it. The only possible hint is with his older daughter, as she seems to have been exposed to something explicitly sexual early on. But why else would the writers spend such considerable effort and precious time on Marty's characterization at this point of the season?[/spoiler]
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The Atlantic has a review of the episode (http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/02/-em-true-detective-em-s-first-disappointing-episode/283996/) and I agree with a lot of the points.
[spoiler]Yeah, the episode felt a bit disconnected, like they aren't sure how to fill in the missing years and build up to the conclusion. Pretty much everything in the episode we already knew about:
* Marty's infidelity. I found it really weird that they brought back the young whore and that's who Marty ends up cheating with. Not to mention the whole bag of tampons, how can you NOT cheat when you buy tampons? :P (Umm, why did he even bring the bags into the bar and not leave them in the car? :P). Then there's the scene where she talks to him about having anal... sigh... or the little devil figurine in her room. Just too cliche. We get it, he's sinning.
* The sexual tension between Marty's wife and Rust. We already knew about it (he comes to cut the lawn and whatever else we haven't been shown). I hate that they had sex and how it was used. I would've preferred if Rust didn't fall for it but she still used the idea of it to get back at Marty). I'm not sure how I feel about that being the main reason for the split between Marty and Rust instead of having something to do with work (because we've had plenty of tensions already: like Rust covering up that Marty killed one of the rapists).
* A religious conspiracy. I really hope this is a red herring. I want crazy psychos and the main characters going crazy as they go deeper (the whole Yellow King and Cardosa references). A big religious organization behind it? Too predictable.
[/spoiler]
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If this is where TV is headed, sign me up. I doubt it's more than a happy fluke, though. Gripping story and unbelievable performances from the leads. I love the idea of a different miniseries per season, each with its own development and conclusion. No cliffhanger needed. After that stellar first season, an audience for whatever comes next is guaranteed.
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Yea I finished it off the other night, it's pretty fantastic. Some of the best television I've seen in a long time. There's some minor gripes with the end, but whatever, it was nothing compared to everything else it brought to the table. Really can't wait enough for the next season.
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I preferred the first four episodes over the last four. In particular, episode six ("Haunted Houses") seemed like a waste of precious time in just an eight-episode series. That said, taken as a whole, the series was truly great. Amazing job by Woody Harrelson and Matthew Matthew McConaughey.
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I preferred the first four episodes over the last four. In particular, episode six ("Haunted Houses") seemed like a waste of precious time in just an eight-episode series. That said, taken as a whole, the series was truly great. Amazing job by Woody Harrelson and Matthew Matthew McConaughey.
I agree. I liked the series overall, but felt like it lost traction in the latter episodes, like it didn't know where to go after the action in the middle or how far to push the overall arch. The characters were amazing, but the ending felt too easy and "nice" for my taste.
[spoiler]
I thought the ending should've been a lot more negative, maybe with one of the characters getting killed or going completely insane because of all of this. It just felt like too happy of an ending even with Rust having his religious vision, which I guess could be a hint at insanity, it just didn't have much impact for me. I would've also liked it if they built up the final villain up more like they did with the one in the middle of the series.
[/spoiler]
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I understand wanting a more dramatic climax, more surprises. I don't understand [spoiler]why it has to be negative. I guess I've missed where in the timeline of my life audiences went from expecting positive resolutions to expecting the death of protagonists and the enduring of evil. It's hard to escape such depressing conclusions anymore, and I, for one, was glad to see things work out for once in serious drama.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]
Just my interpretation of the first half of the series, Cobra. The ending wasn't super happy either, but maybe not as powerful as it could've been. At least in my opinion. I LOVED the final confrontation with the villain, just wish there was a bit more to the episodes leading up to it. It's hard to explain, the 2nd half of the show just didn't feel as "complete" and lost me a bit. Still a great show.
Anyway, I'll probably end up watching the series again soon so my opinion might change. :)
[/spoiler]
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Sam & Max: True Detectives (http://www.dorkly.com/video/59754/freelance-detective)
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Hahaha!
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I love the show's intro sequence ;D
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Haha! Awesome!
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I like the intro too, and that's all I was expecting, since the video is so short. That got me smiling. Then . . . I lost it. Good thing I wasn't drinking anything.
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Yeah, I really like this series.
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Just rumors so far:
http://www.latinpost.com/articles/9160/20140319/hbo-true-detective-season-2-release-date-and-cast-rumors-mcconaughey-harrelson-out-brad-pitt-in-with-female-detective.htm
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However, in a sudden twist of events, it was confirmed that the two lead stars are no longer going to be back for the second season.
Nope. This was on Wikipedia even before the series started: "The series was pitched as an anthology format, with each season featuring a different cast of characters and story"
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I pretty much figured they wouldn't be able to hold on to actors of this caliber for a long-running series. I had it pegged in my mind as a one-season miniseries because of Harrelson and McConaughey. Then I read about the "anthology" angle, and the whole thing seemed even more brilliant (assuming future seasons hold up the standard). Great actors who won't be pigeonholed into long TV roles come in and do their magic for a season. Wow.
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Watched the first three episodes on a plane the other day and just finished the rest up now. Great series.
[spoiler]I was expecting something tragic with the ending and was quite surprised when it didn't go down. As much as a crumble into insanity for one of the detectives would have fit with the themes, I have no problem with everything working out. I think there was room for another episode (or just cutting of some filler) to expand upon some themes I would have liked to see more in depth: about the killer, maybe more of a trek to find him, etc. You know, because NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND HAS EVER PAINTED THEIR FUCKING EARS WHILE PAINTING A HOUSE (Once it was pretty much revealed who the killer was before the detectives made the connection I thought the green ears would be sound muffs...paint?). Perhaps have had the finale be twice as long with more killer flashbacks (did that motherfucker sew his father's mouth shut?)
Like everyone else here, I thought it started up very strong and ended a bit weak. Still good, but Ledeux seemed like a huge menace, even though he had about 5 min of screen time. That entire time I was pretty sure shit was about to hit the fan. The final killer, however, just didn't have the same effect on me, no matter how creepy they tried to make him.
Anyways, I really enjoyed it and would like to see what a second season brings to the table. I had no idea where this was going (if it was going to be really dark, sort of dark, have a super natural aspect, etc) and I think it'd be interesting to see what they do in the future and if they revisit some of the same elements, go in a completely different direction, or whatever. I will say that I read a couple of threads on this on reddit after and the general reply to any citiciism of the show and it's resolution is to go read The King in Yellow and then watch the series again. THAT'S bullshit and something that worries me - the fanbase for this show is going to fucking suck. [/spoiler]
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Season 2 just started and the general opinion is that it's off to a bad start. Though I'm having a hard time reading people's opinions since it feels like most of these people backlashed hard after season 1 and are prematurely judging it but we'll see in the next couple weeks.
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I haven't had the opportunity to watch it. If true, that's a shame because the first half of season 1 was incredible and it really hit the ground running.
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The trailers seem like they've got the same tone down, and the roster of actors is pretty solid. I'm looking forward to it. I'm not going to judge on the start or even a couple episodes, but the season as a whole, and that works fine for me because I don't want TV. If it's halfway decent, I'll buy the Bluray set, like I did with the first season.
I do hope they realize what made the first season so compelling and play more with that stuff. Maybe even take it to some weirder places. The first felt like a perfect introduction to a style and set of themes (and I really didn't feel like it fell off at any point, though the ending could have used a hint more lingering mystery or darkness to tantalize for the next season ... but I have no real complaints), and if they use subsequent seasons to work that stuff in, take it deeper, without going too far or too fast, I think they'd have a solid show that could easily last several more seasons without slowing down. It's got so much potential ... I hope they don't waste it by making it too safe, or filling it with crap we've seen enough of already. If they start tying some things together between seasons, that'll work for me too.
I hold out hope, slow start or not. I have faith in the writers.
I also don't get why people would suggest reading the King in Yellow in response to criticism. I've owned the book for some time and read it both before and after the show, and while I think it's cool that there's some influence, I don't really think there's all that much. Unless there's stuff I was missing, which I guess is possible. But if it's that thin, who cares? The Ligotti influence (https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Thomas_Ligotti) was obviously far more important, at least to Rust's arc.
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I accidentally came across some criticism before watching the premier of the second season and think it's a bit off base. The first episode felt like the start of a story - it introduced a bunch of characters, hints at their pasts, and produced a mystery. It wasn't quite as compelling as the first of the initial season but there are four main characters and I think that probably means there's a little bit more setting up that needs to be done.
It was just different, that's all.
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That's how I read a lot of the criticism as well. Just jumping to conclusions that the whole season is just going to be bad.
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I watched it last night. Perhaps it didn't start as strong as S1E1, but it still shows promise and I'll be tuning in again.
Heck, I didn't even like the first three episodes of The Leftovers but I'm glad I stuck that show out because it turned out great. True Detective is a different beast, but there is no reason to abandon hope now.
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Yea it definitely didn't grab me. One of the complaints I saw was that it had the brooding sense of the first season with no substance. I disagree with that, there's substance here its just that brooding theme feels a bit forced at times, making parts of it a little over dramatic.
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Personally, S1 was some of the greatest television I've ever seen. S2 has a lot to live up to. Chances are, it won't. That's okay though, because if it even comes close it will still be great.
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S2 hasn't grabbed my attention yet as much as S1, maybe because there are too many key characters involved and it will take a bit of time for all of them to develop. EP2 was better, but still a bit of a mess.
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Well, one key character sure didn't get a lot of development time.
And one thing I thought I wouldn't live to see is a thoroughly unattractive Rachel McAdams.
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[spoiler]Yup. And that character is the reason I got excited about this season. I think we'll see him through flashbacks.[/spoiler]
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Just finished watching S2E2. [spoiler]I can't believe they killed off Colin Farrell! His performance had me the most impressed of the four.[/spoiler]
In any case, I'm all in on this season.
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Well, at least they pulled their George RR Martin way sooner than "Red Wedding". :) Makes it easier to swallow.
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[spoiler]Rubber buckshot![/spoiler] :D
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True Detective - Season 2
NOTE -> SPOILERS Galore in the links below:
TVLine.com
TVLine - Recap of Season 2 Episode 8. (http://tvline.com/2015/08/09/true-detective-leonard-killed-ben-caspare-finale-recap-season-2/)
BuzzFeed.
Buzzfeed -> Recap on Season 2 up to Episode 7. (http://www.buzzfeed.com/kirstenking/everything-you-need-to-know#.or6wG5r82)
Polygon's Analysis, Watch-through, Overviews, Etc:
Season 2 - Episode 1 (http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/30/8869875/true-detective-season-2-explain-details-characters-plot-help)
Season 2 - Episodes 2 + 3. (http://www.polygon.com/2015/7/7/8901145/true-detective-season-2-explain-details-characters-plot-help-episode-2-3-recap-overview-walkthrough)
Season 2 - Episode 4. (http://www.polygon.com/2015/7/15/8962955/true-detective-season-2-episode-3-explain-details-characters-plot-help-shot-shootout-mexican-drugs)
Season 2 - Episode 5. (http://www.polygon.com/2015/7/22/9011429/true-detective-season-2-episode-5-explain-details-characters-plot-help-recap)
Season 2 - Episode 6 (http://www.polygon.com/2015/7/28/9027455/true-detective-season-2-episode-6-explain-details-characters-plot-help-recap-party)
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True Detective - Season 2
NOTE -> SPOILERS Galore in the links below:
Polygon's Analysis, Watch-through, Overviews, Etc:
Season 2 - Episode 1 (http://-http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/30/8869875/true-detective-season-2-explain-details-characters-plot-help)
Season 2 - Episodes 2 + 3. (http://www.polygon.com/2015/7/7/8901145/true-detective-season-2-explain-details-characters-plot-help-episode-2-3-recap-overview-walkthrough)
All of a sudden I don't want to watch this show anymore.
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[spoiler]Rubber buckshot![/spoiler] :D
[spoiler]He'd still probably be dead in RL. There was an actor that had blanks in a handgun and "shot" himself in the head and died because the mere force of the blast broke off a chunk of his skull and caused significant brain damage. Granted, Colin Farrell's character wasn't shot in the head, but he'd have some serious internal bleeding issues going on.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]Depends on the powder charge? Police depts have been known to use rubber bullets on crowds of students. I know because I was in one. Ohio State, seventies.[/spoiler] Not disagreeing, though. That would have been possible. [spoiler]People have gone into cardiac arrest and died from being tased too.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]Depends on the powder charge? Police depts have been known to use rubber bullets on crowds of students. I know because I was in one. Ohio State, seventies.[/spoiler] Not disagreeing, though. That would have been possible. [spoiler]People have gone into cardiac arrest and died from being tased too.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Oh yeah, I'm aware that rubber bullets are used as a crowd deterrent. I'm referring more to the second shot in the show, which was at point blank range.[/spoiler]
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All of a sudden I don't want to watch this show anymore.
That's the thing w/ this show - there's just so much going on here. You either want to hack it and stick with it...or not.
I don't know what it is about TD S2 here, but I still want to keep watching - and this isn't anywhere as great as Season 1. Season 1 was close to perfection - new TV show freshness, the casting, the writing, the dialogue, direction, & everything else you can think of. S2, on the other hand - eh, not so much. Like Batman: AK (game) - it just feels like TD S2 is trying to go for, aim, + do so much on an epic-level, it just all ain't sticking together for so many reasons that...I don't even know where to begin here.
I think it could be b/c in S2: there's so many characters + so much going on, I still have to see where the hell all of these characters, stories + threads go...even despite some dialogue & characters feeling off to me. Namely, a lot of the dialogue feels even forced and/or stilted - often to sum things up; spit philosophy; and other things that make me say, "Characters don't really talk like this to each other!" It sounds more like the writer talking (Nic P.) and less of what the actual characters would say to another. Plus, too many characters feel like Rusty Cohle (Matthew M. from S1) and don't need to be - especially since many are not portrayed as bat-crap crazy; aren't in the Bayou (which was just an odd and interesting setting, so it fit for Rusty's characters); + b/c he don't even have a foil to his character to balance the madness out (which Woody Harrelson was in S1).
Regardless, I think S2E5 last night was one of the better episodes this season. It feels like this show is getting better with each episode (I think S2E1 was the real low-point of the season) - but it just ain't ever going to be on S1's near-perfection level of execution.
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Great post, D. I really like the point you make about Rust having a foil. I'm not sure I completely agree with it, though. Sure, Marty was a little more sane and served as something of a counterweight but he had plenty of demons of his own.
I do agree with your overall assessment. Everyone is caught up with saying TDS2 isn't as good as TDS1. Well... what is? Honestly, TDS1 is one of the best shows I've ever seen grace television if not the very best. You can't hit grand slams every at bat. Taken by itself, TDS2 is a pretty good show and a worthwhile watch.
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I still have my gripes about the show (like having too many characters who have "issues") but overall I'm starting to get into it. Things are starting to make sense. :)
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Great post, D. I really like the point you make about Rust having a foil. I'm not sure I completely agree with it, though. Sure, Marty was a little more sane and served as something of a counterweight but he had plenty of demons of his own.
Well, you do make a good point - Woody's character (Martin) was not 100% foil, since he did have his own problems + demons. But, still - most of the time, namely when Rusty + Marty were together - they were foils to each other. Martin was often way more logical + sane, when compared to Rusty - especially when they were in the same scene.
I do agree with your overall assessment. Everyone is caught up with saying TDS2 isn't as good as TDS1. Well... what is? Honestly, TDS1 is one of the best shows I've ever seen grace television if not the very best. You can't hit grand slams every at bat. Taken by itself, TDS2 is a pretty good show and a worthwhile watch.
That's the thing - everybody sees something close to perfect and loves it; and then when the next project comes out from the same person comes & tries a lot of different things, everybody seems to shit on it completely. This has happened on so many things - movies, games, TV shows, etc - I don't know where to begins. Look at Dragon Age: Origins to DA2; True Detective Season 1 to Season 2; Rocksteady's Batman trilogy with Batman: Arkham City to Arkham Knight; Kanye's Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy to Yeezus; Nas from Illmatic to It Was Written. Many of these things did something way different from their previous entry - and most of those were overly + heavily criticized in their sequels by fans. Fans, more or less, wanted more of the same - and instead, they got something else entirely and don't know what the hell to make of it.
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I'm up to date on this show now. Not bad. My biggest problem is trying to keep tabs on what the hell is going on with everybody. The Vince Vaughn character in particular is confusing. Too many open threads. Perhaps it's my own imperfect attention. We'll see where it goes from here. I did like E5, mostly because it finally seems to be [spoiler]bringing the 3 detectives together as one cohesive unit, with aligned motivations[/spoiler].
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I too am having trouble sometimes understanding all of the plot threads, especially with Vince Vaughn, but I am really enjoying the show. S2E6 was fantastic!
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I too am having trouble sometimes understanding all of the plot threads, especially with Vince Vaughn, but I am really enjoying the show. S2E6 was fantastic!
Episode 7 is pretty good too. I feel like a lot of the early episodes were establishing stuff, and shit is about to go down now, and it will continue through the end of the season.
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Wait, the last one is E7? I thought it was E6. I didn't realize the season was just about to end already.
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Wait, the last one is E7? I thought it was E6. I didn't realize the season was just about to end already.
Yeah the one from 2 days ago (the 2nd) was E7.
Wait, IMDB only lists 8 episodes. And season 1 only had 8 episodes. Shit, there's only one episode left!
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Shit, there's only one episode left!
And it's going to be around 90 minutes, as well.
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And then [spoiler]there were two.[/spoiler]
I'm going to have to rewatch the season in one or two sittings after it's over. I have such a hard time following everything that's going on.
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So I'm lame, whatever, but while watching episode 7 I paused it when [spoiler]The list Frank hands the guy when he says he needs some firepower only has 10 items on it, then repeats the same 10 items again.[/spoiler]
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Hahaha! Freeze frames are the undoing of many a face and plot device.
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So I'm lame, whatever, but while watching episode 7 I paused it when [spoiler]The list Frank hands the guy when he says he needs some firepower only has 10 items on it, then repeats the same 10 items again.[/spoiler]
Hahaha! Freeze frames are the undoing of many a face and plot device.
Speculating here for Season Finale.
[spoiler]List x2 = could be 2 people.
Might mean he'll have someone help him take down the Russians.
Ray has interacted with him here and there - could be him.
If Frank ever really helps Ray find out who actually really raped Frank's ex-wife (since we got swerved 2 episodes back w/ Ray killing the wrong guy, thanks to Frank's poor info)...
...then Ray might owe him a favor here.[/spoiler]
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And then [spoiler]there were two.[/spoiler]
I'm going to have to rewatch the season in one or two sittings after it's over. I have such a hard time following everything that's going on.
This could help you a bit:
SPOILERS GALORE in link below.
Buzzfeed -> Recap on Season 2 up to Episode 7. (http://www.buzzfeed.com/kirstenking/everything-you-need-to-know#.or6wG5r82)
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Speculating here for Season Finale.
[spoiler]List x2 = could be 2 people.
Might mean he'll have someone help him take down the Russians.
Ray has interacted with him here and there - could be him.
If Frank ever really helps Ray find out who actually really raped Frank's ex-wife (since we got swerved 2 episodes back w/ Ray killing the wrong guy, thanks to Frank's poor info)...
...then Ray might owe him a favor here.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Maybe. I'm thinking not though, or like items would be listed together. The full list is:
M4 - automatic rifle
Bennelli M4 - shotgun
Remmington 870 - shotgun
flash grenades x10
tear gas canisters x10
gas masks x2
kevlar vests x2
AK-47s x2
extra AK magazines x4
500 rounds per piece
M4 - automatic rifle
Bennelli M4 - shotgun
Remmington 870 - shotgun
flash grenades x10
tear gas canisters x10
gas masks x2
kevlar vests x2
AK-47s x2
extra AK magazines x4
500 rounds per piece
The M4 auto is listed twice, separated by other items, but the AK-47s are listed as x2 twice, also separated by other items. There are 2x kevlar vests though, so I expect at least 2 people, probably with the extra guns as backups.[/spoiler]
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Well, Season 2's Finale was all over the place.
This certainly had no business being 90 minutes.
I was really hoping this was going to deliver, after the season really turning the tide by Episode 4....and it fell apart by bad pacing, some non-sense, & some predictable things happening.
Finale could've been better. Way better.
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Well, Season 2's Finale was all over the place.
This certainly had no business being 90 minutes.
I was really hoping this was going to deliver, after the season really turning the tide by Episode 4....and it fell apart by bad pacing, some non-sense, & some predictable things happening.
Finale could've been better. Way better.
One problem was it had multiple major events that could have each worked at the end of an episode (assuming they had enough interesting stuff to pad out that many more episodes). Also (finale spoilers)[spoiler]The show tends to be pessimistic, and until the very, very end, it felt like it just went in on this full force. A Pyrrhic victory was definitely not going to surprise me, but the way it ends you're not even sure if the victory will come or not. Also I'm disappointed in how much this turned out to be white collar crime that just led to the spilling of blood, where the first season felt like they were dealing with something truly evil.[/spoiler]
Season 1 spoilers:
[spoiler]Season 1 was equally pessimistic, but at the end the bad guys were stopped, and Rustin had a bit of a change of heart in how he viewed the world, thanks to a near death experience. It ended on a positive note, and even if Rustin had died, it would have felt like a partial victory in that the murderer was stopped.[/spoiler]
Oh, and the list from before, lol.
[spoiler]The list had an M4 rifle, 2 different shotguns, and 2 AK47s
There were 3 M4 rifles, one shotgun (the remington I think), a grenade launcher, and 2 handguns (the handguns were probably ones he already had)[/spoiler]
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It had a few good scenes, from a cinematography stand point. But overall I agree with W7RE that it was all over the place. And some of the dialogue... oh boy...
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Season 1 spoilers:
[spoiler]Season 1 was equally pessimistic, but at the end the bad guys were stopped, and Rustin had a bit of a change of heart in how he viewed the world, thanks to a near death experience. It ended on a positive note, and even if Rustin had died, it would have felt like a partial victory in that the murderer was stopped.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I think Season 1 was a bit misleading that way. As far as I can remember, they just killed one of the guys who did the actual killing (Childress), but there was a full on cult thing going on that was never exposed, and it had very prominent politicians, ministers, etc as members (Tuttles), and that was never exposed. I've always kind of seen it as a hollow victory - they did kill the guy who killed (at least most of) the girls but a lot of the main players seemingly got away or were never even exposed to the viewers.
I ended up watching the first season twice because my girlfriend wanted to see it, and the second time it really struck me that it wasn't the happy ending I originally thought it was [/spoiler]
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One problem was it had multiple major events that could have each worked at the end of an episode (assuming they had enough interesting stuff to pad out that many more episodes). Also (finale spoilers)[spoiler]The show tends to be pessimistic, and until the very, very end, it felt like it just went in on this full force. A Pyrrhic victory was definitely not going to surprise me, but the way it ends you're not even sure if the victory will come or not. Also I'm disappointed in how much this turned out to be white collar crime that just led to the spilling of blood, where the first season felt like they were dealing with something truly evil.[/spoiler]
Season 1 spoilers:
[spoiler]Season 1 was equally pessimistic, but at the end the bad guys were stopped, and Rustin had a bit of a change of heart in how he viewed the world, thanks to a near death experience. It ended on a positive note, and even if Rustin had died, it would have felt like a partial victory in that the murderer was stopped.[/spoiler]
I had no real problem in both Seasons 1 + 2 with things being constantly noir + pessimistic. I loved Season 1 period.
My problem was the pacing in Season 2 Finale was not good. While a few things did happen, a lot of them felt predictable....
...[spoiler]Namely, both Ray and Frank died. I knew that was going to happen. I had a feeling this was going to happen, given the list - and to me, it made the most sense that these two would work together, given the list of everything doubled. While they didn't die like I thought they would (i.e. together in a blaze of glory), they still died. Frank got left dead in the desert, while Ray predictably went to say goodbye to his boy - and he didn't think he'd catch the boat + was afraid he'd also lead all of their enemies to Ani. Predictable as hell.
Ani is telling the reporter about everything down South and the cover-up, that's it. She gives the reporter from The Times the info to do what they want w/ it.[/spoiler]
But, this could've been a good episode, even w/ some its predictability, if it was say 45-60 min instead. A lot of it felt like it took too long to just go anywhere. With so many pieces and on-going stuff, this could've been paced better + much more interesting. Instead, it was just "okay" at 90 mins.
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That was awful. You know how I said I wanted to rewatch this season to make more sense out of it? Forget it. Not happening now. I will now delete all 8 episodes. The series is back to Square 1 with me. This season cancels out last one.
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Hahaha. I still really liked the second season.
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[spoiler]Let's forget positive endings for a moment, because tragedy is all the rage now. I still hated how 2 of the 3 characters may as well just have offed themselves about halfway through, but I can deal with it. Let's just concentrate on the concept of an ending, a resolution. There was none. Everything is as much up in the air when it all ended than when it started. The only difference is that a lot of participants are now dead. Did the corruption get in any way excised or at least exposed? Who knows? It all ends in the same depressing fog that it began, with absolutely no movement forward, whatever "forward" may be. It was straight and pointless murder porn and emo porn. Nothing made any difference, and much was left making little sense.[/spoiler]
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Oh yeah, don't get me wrong - I can see why you (or anyone else) wouldn't like it and I'm not saying you're wrong for that, I'm just saying I still enjoyed the ride even though it didn't end up where I wanted it to.
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[spoiler]I don't have any problem with the series having no resolution or a "bad" ending. My issue is with the writing. The pacing in the series was all over the place: horrible dialogue, some scenes dragged on for too long without contributing anything (like the start of the last episode) or maybe just bad acting (with some exceptions). Too much time was spent on the police work (which was hard to follow) and not enough on the actual mystery or the gravity of the crimes committed (2nd episode seemed like it was going somewhere, but not really). Other than the gun fight in the middle and the drug/sex mansion there was just nothing interesting, no real wonder, no real "wow", no real "damn that's fucked up".
Characters were all over the place. I didn't like that all of them had some sort of hidden secret. Other than Ray, there was nothing that contributed to the story. Did it really matter that the chick was molested when she was young? Not really. That the cool cop was gay? Yeah, who cares, we all have issues. And that's the thing right there, I can't even remember the 2 cops names, only Ray. Heck, the lady chick wasn't even involved in the last episode, other than rescuing Ray at the train station or whatever it was. It was like they added the backstories for the sake of having fucked or normal or whatever characters.
Everything was just so forced, so ... gah, I don't know, off? The series had a few cool scenes, but that's it. I get the message the show was trying to deliver (we are all fucked?), but the delivery was just bad. It was a shit story that tried too hard to look fancy.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]I don't have any problem with the series having no resolution or a "bad" ending. My issue is with the writing. The pacing in the series was all over the place: horrible dialogue, some scenes dragged on for too long without contributing anything (like the start of the last episode) or maybe just bad acting (with some exceptions). Too much time was spent on the police work (which was hard to follow) and not enough on the actual mystery or the gravity of the crimes committed (2nd episode seemed like it was going somewhere, but not really). Other than the gun fight in the middle and the drug/sex mansion there was just nothing interesting, no real wonder, no real "wow", no real "damn that's fucked up".[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I think one of the other things was - a lot of the police work, wasn't cleared-up for most until the last 2 episodes. This is where things were really kicking into gear here. B/c Episode 8 really tried to explain things for people not paying attention closely + those not hitting any forums or sites analyzing things, w/ too much exposition. Those who had a clue what was going on were....not surprised by anything. Everything took obvious & predictable routes. There weren't many surprises. Things you expected to be hints early on that were doing foreshadowing - yep, you were likely right.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Everything was just so forced, so ... gah, I don't know, off? The series had a few cool scenes, but that's it. I get the message the show was trying to deliver (we are all fucked?), but the delivery was just bad. It was a shit story that tried too hard to look fancy.[/spoiler]
I think some of the casting, writing, and whatnot was just all over the place. Certainly, somebody should've stepped in and hit the edit button. So much stuff, could've either been thrown out or expanded upon much more.
Pretty much - my feelings are similar to yours. Namely, the writing + pacing was all over the place. I still think this could've been told in 3 to 6 episodes, not 8.
[spoiler]Characters were all over the place. I didn't like that all of them had some sort of hidden secret. Other than Ray, there was nothing that contributed to the story. Did it really matter that the chick was molested when she was young? Not really. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]I think it was a red herring to make us think that maybe Ani's dad might've had some involvement in the sex ring - b/c if anyone would've known about that guy w/ that kind of hippie-looking bus, the one Ani saw at the party when she saw the guy and had the flashback - mayber her dad did. Pretty much, nope. Seems like he didn't have a clue, when she saw her dad in either Ep 6 or Ep 7. Red herring thrown.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]That the cool cop was gay? Yeah, who cares, we all have issues. And that's the thing right there, I can't even remember the 2 cops names, only Ray. Heck, the lady chick wasn't even involved in the last episode, other than rescuing Ray at the train station or whatever it was. It was like they added the backstories for the sake of having fucked or normal or whatever characters. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]Revealed in the final episode, but which I figured the entire time - the cops + politicians were, more or less, trying to set all of these cops up.
I really had this bad feeling, when the lady cop brought them all back together in Ep 5 (which was after the shootout w/ the gang in Ep 4 that this would be the case). Of course, that lady got killed off in her car, left for dead - killing off another loose end.
Pretty much, close to the End of Ep 8: everything got covered-up.
And who knows if the writer is going to follow through w/ all the stuff Ani gave him. We didn't see it happen, so who knows. [/spoiler]
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The more I think about it the more I realize that this season was simply not a "true detective". It just lacked many of the elements of a detective genre.
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The more I think about it the more I realize that this season was simply not a "true detective". It just lacked many of the elements of a detective genre.
Season 1
[spoiler]
Rusty + Marty were your True Detectives in Season 1. It wasn't really about who was doing the killings, for us to figure out - that was the backdrop and secondary. It felt like it was more about who these characters were, their problems, and things of that sort.
[/spoiler]
Season 2
[spoiler]
We, the viewers, this Season were the True Detectives - who was supposed to figure this all out, keep up w/ this tons of plot-lines + characters; stick w/ it; and put many of the pieces of the puzzle together. Things that felt like throwaways, whether characters or incidents - often weren't. A lot of it wasn't really explained w/ exposition to the viewers until the last 2 episodes. Those who weren't analyzing the show; not checking online analysis + re-caps; not re-watching the episode - they got what they needed. While we fans who tried to connect everything - we got screwed.
Likely, those who weren't mostly clued in to everything going probably got more out the finale than I did.
[/spoiler]
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Me and the Mrs were completely bored through almost all of it, but were waiting for something to happen to make us care about the characters or plot, and validate our investment of time. We got half way into episode 5 and realised that we frankly didn't give a shit what happened anymore and turned it off. Such an insult to season 1.
Also, Vince Vaughn is fucking terrible. Firstly as an actor. Secondly as a human being for inflicting his "acting" on the rest of us.
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I dislike Vince Vaughn's onscreen persona in just about everything he's done. He comes across as the pushiest asshole in creation, even in light comedies.
An insult to Season 1--yes, that's the perfect way to put it. It's also an insult to the better actors in the production.
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I dislike Vince Vaughn's onscreen persona in just about everything he's done. He comes across as the pushiest asshole in creation, even in light comedies.
An insult to Season 1--yes, that's the perfect way to put it. It's also an insult to the better actors in the production.
I think the biggest problem w/ Vince Vaughn and his wife was this story got WAY TOO much time; had some of the worst dialogue in this series; and felt often liked it was way miscast-ed.
[spoiler]I think Vince did fine w/ being bad-ass gangster part when he needed to be - i.e. when attacking the club surrounded w/ all the guys in one of the earlier episodes, when he killed the dealer for giving him bad info about who raped Ray's wife, in the next to last episode burning some establishments down, the shootout at the cabin w/ Osip, etc.
But, it's mostly the scenes w/ his wife that weren't working for me and when he did long monologue talks sounding like he was spitting philosophy or narrating something - which sounded more like 4th wall stuff from the writer Nick P than actually if Vince was performing.
One of the funniest lines was in the last episode when Kelly Reilly (Vince's wife) said something on taking action in situation, then delivers the meta-line w/ loaded w/ double-meaning: "You can't act for shit. Take it from me."[/spoiler]