Topic: I'm looking into getting a new TV

[PyroMenace]

A big ass TV. Well at this point I had planned to either invest in a new computer or a new TV. I originally thought I was going to buy and build a new system but the way Ive been with gaming for the passed year I think getting a new TV would be a better investment. Console gaming has just been more in the spotlight for me than PC gaming has, I bought a total of 3 PC games this year, one of which I barely played. Plus after drooling over K-Mans TV every time I've been over, it would be silly not to get one. I'm aiming for one about the same size as K-Man's which is 52". So we're looking at 1,600$ and up. My limit will probably be 2,000$. Hopefully K-Man sees this because Im wanting to know the exact model he has and its capabilities. Then there's the whole LCD vs Plasma argument, I guess Im leaning on LCD, but not totally sure at this point. Between now and the next couple months Im gonna be looking at deals. I could use some input.

[Quemaqua]

I hate you.  All you people and your... stuff that I don't have.

Yes, this is the least constructive post ever.  I'm not knowledgeable enough about the subject to be constructive, though, so hopefully somebody else covers that.

[TheOtherBelmont]

Phillips makes a 52" LCD and plasma(the plasma is like $2100 though) model that support 1080p and they look great.  Don't know the specific model numbers but the resolutions and contrast ratios are great on both.  The Wal-Mart where Dragonlor works plays the Planet Earth Blu-Ray edition and its amazing.

[Cobra951]

For big screen, I definitely vote plasma.  Buy it locally, whatever you get, and make sure the retailer has good customer support and return policy.  If you still opt for LCD, check out all the viewing angles the set is going to need in your living room, including vertical angles (standing, sitting, lying down . . .).

[Raisa]

I hate you.  All you people and your... stuff that I don't have.

Yes, this is the least constructive post ever.  I'm not knowledgeable enough about the subject to be constructive, though, so hopefully somebody else covers that.

if it's any consolation... i have an old 17" and i never even use it...

[PyroMenace]

Phillips makes a 52" LCD and plasma(the plasma is like $2100 though) model that support 1080p and they look great.  Don't know the specific model numbers but the resolutions and contrast ratios are great on both.  The Wal-Mart where Dragonlor works plays the Planet Earth Blu-Ray edition and its amazing.

Yea I was just at Walmart and I saw a 50" Phillips plasma for about $1300, it looked spectacular.

For big screen, I definitely vote plasma.  Buy it locally, whatever you get, and make sure the retailer has good customer support and return policy.  If you still opt for LCD, check out all the viewing angles the set is going to need in your living room, including vertical angles (standing, sitting, lying down . . .).

I saw in other threads that you mentioned that the image burn and dim over time problems have been much improved. Did you know of a place for some good info on plasmas?

[K-man]

Mine is an LCD projection.  At the time I bought it it was probably the best deal for cost/performance.  Now though, LCD panels are getting much cheaper.  Companies like Vizio are putting out quality LCD panels that are very affordable.  You also might want to look into DLP televisions.  Those are very nice and display one hell of a picture. 

As far as specs, mine is a 52 inch Panasonic LCD Projection that is capable of displaying 480p, 720p, and 1080i.  I don't have any 1080p capabilities whatsoever.  I'll be around this weekend if you want to discuss and research it further.

[iPPi]

I just bought a Samsung 52" LCD.  Should be really good as it supports full HD and stuff.  Only thing was I didn't go for the 120Hz refresh rate since the price goes up nearly $1000 and I hear there are some issues with it.

[PyroMenace]

Did you get a flat panel or rear projection iPPi?

[Cobra951]

Mine is an LCD projection.  At the time I bought it it was probably the best deal for cost/performance.  Now though, LCD panels are getting much cheaper.  Companies like Vizio are putting out quality LCD panels that are very affordable.  You also might want to look into DLP televisions.  Those are very nice and display one hell of a picture. 

As far as specs, mine is a 52 inch Panasonic LCD Projection that is capable of displaying 480p, 720p, and 1080i.  I don't have any 1080p capabilities whatsoever.  I'll be around this weekend if you want to discuss and research it further.

DLP?  Yuck!  DLP works off a rotating color wheel, like early attempts at color TV, and it's rear-projection technology.  They use a bulb that burns out and you need to replace it like an old Bell & Howell projector's.  I've even read that you need to vacuum out the inside every so often because the dust screws up performance.  Everything about DLP cries out tech throwback.  It's big, bulky, partly mechanical, and I've yet to see a projected video image that I prefer to the best direct view.

[iPPi]

The new LCD I got is flat panel.

[poomcgoo]

DLP is no good.  It's cheaper, but if you're buying a big ass tv and spending that much money, you're gonna want it to look as good as possible.  I would go with LCD personally, but you really can't go wrong with either LCD or plasma at those sizes. 

I just bought a 32" Visio LCD and I was looking at the huge Visios at Sears the other day.  I really recommend this brand -- it's definitely the best price to performance ratio out there.  They're almost always the cheapest and the picture on mine is awesome.  My 32" was about $575 and I would have spent a lot more.  There are a ton of connections on the back and I hooked it up to my computer in literally 20 seconds.  The only 32" model that was close to it in price at the time was a Polaroid that was just plain ugly.  It had about half the connections, slightly worse specs, and come on -- Polaroid?  Didn't they go bankrupt?

Samsung is the best in terms of picture quality, no doubt.  They are pricey, but if you want the best picture, I'd go with them.  Sharp's Aquos is pretty nice too.  Sony is not worth it, because if you do a little research you'll find that Samsung actually manufactures Sony's LCD's (not sure about plasma), and they're more expensive.  My uncle returned his 52" Sony for a Samsung of the same size, and I don't know if I'm seeing things, but it really does look a little better. 

Also, when you find the TV you want and get it home, check online for that model's optimal color/contrast/brightness/etc... settings.  You can get a technician to come to your house and set it up for your room based on the amount of light, what color your walls are etc... but that's a waste of money.  Either way, finding the optimal settings can literally make a jaw-dropping difference in picture.

[iPPi]

I have a Toshiba DLP as well and the picture quality is fantastic.  The only thing I don't like about it is that it has moving parts and is therefore a piece of technology that will not stand the test of time.  I mean, the TV is 2-3 years old now and it still works great with no issues, but they are bound to happen eventually.  The lamp replacement thing is a bit of an annoyance as well.  I've had to do it once now.

As a result I'm getting the Samsung LCD.  I'll still have the DLP, but it'll probably go to my parents.

If you're in the market for a good LCD, the top 3 rated LCD brands are Samsung, Sharp, and Sony.  You generally can't go wrong with that.  Samsung generally has better contrast ratios and therefore richer colors, but there are some issues with their connectors and their new 120Hz tech.  Sharp has a softer image and I've been reading that their LCDs have banding issues.  Sony tends to be a little more expensive, but the PQ is fairly comparable to Sharp and Samsung.

The 52" I bought cost me $2200, but I packaged it with a home theatre sound system and a stand, so it came out to be around $2700 CAD.

Pyro if you're interested, the model I got is the Samsung LNT5265 and it cost me just under $2200 CAD.  The higher models available are the 5271 (120Hz, higher contrast ratio, price goes to about $3200), and the 5281 (LED backlit, 120Hz, goes up about $4500)

Edit:  As I was shopping around, I found that LG was really good as well, though they are underrepresented in the market and therefore somewhat harder to find.  If you're in the market right now for a TV, go the extra mile and get a full HD (1080p) TV.

[Quemaqua]

How's Panasonic these days?  I've had the best luck with them out of all the brands of home electronics I've bought (TVs, CD players, stereo equipment), and have always had horrible luck with Sony (I'd never buy another Sony product that isn't a Playstation if you paid me -- everything I've ever had has broken or gotten fucked up somehow even if handled with kid gloves).

[scottws]

I'm a huge Panasonic fan.  I own tons of Panasonic stuff.  I know Panasonic TVs used to be great in the Sony Wega/Panasonic Tau era, but I don't know how their HD stuff holds up against the competition today.

[Quemaqua]

I still have an old SD Panasonic that I got maybe... 7 years ago?  I can't remember.  Great TV, though, and I love it.  Would love also to replace it with another Panasonic, but I don't know how their current offerings are... which is an especially big problem for me since I know nothing about new TVs in general.  I've avoided thinking about it for as long as possible.  I hate all this BS.

[PyroMenace]

I have a Toshiba DLP as well and the picture quality is fantastic.  The only thing I don't like about it is that it has moving parts and is therefore a piece of technology that will not stand the test of time.  I mean, the TV is 2-3 years old now and it still works great with no issues, but they are bound to happen eventually.  The lamp replacement thing is a bit of an annoyance as well.  I've had to do it once now.

As a result I'm getting the Samsung LCD.  I'll still have the DLP, but it'll probably go to my parents.

If you're in the market for a good LCD, the top 3 rated LCD brands are Samsung, Sharp, and Sony.  You generally can't go wrong with that.  Samsung generally has better contrast ratios and therefore richer colors, but there are some issues with their connectors and their new 120Hz tech.  Sharp has a softer image and I've been reading that their LCDs have banding issues.  Sony tends to be a little more expensive, but the PQ is fairly comparable to Sharp and Samsung.

The 52" I bought cost me $2200, but I packaged it with a home theatre sound system and a stand, so it came out to be around $2700 CAD.

Pyro if you're interested, the model I got is the Samsung LNT5265 and it cost me just under $2200 CAD.  The higher models available are the 5271 (120Hz, higher contrast ratio, price goes to about $3200), and the 5281 (LED backlit, 120Hz, goes up about $4500)

Edit:  As I was shopping around, I found that LG was really good as well, though they are underrepresented in the market and therefore somewhat harder to find.  If you're in the market right now for a TV, go the extra mile and get a full HD (1080p) TV.

Yea that Samsung LCD is really tempting. I'm still eye balling this Samsung DLP. It's 56" plus is uses a LED bulb which lasts much longer and the light engine doesn't use a color wheel which would lengthen it longevity. The price is pretty much right where I like it. I went to the Electronics Express here and looked at the DLPs there and they looked fantastic for their cost.

[Cobra951]

Yea that Samsung LCD is really tempting. I'm still eye balling this Samsung DLP. It's 56" plus is uses a LED bulb which lasts much longer and the light engine doesn't use a color wheel which would lengthen it longevity. The price is pretty much right where I like it. I went to the Electronics Express here and looked at the DLPs there and they looked fantastic for their cost.

If your heart is set on DLP, that's the way to go.  3 DLP chips rather than 1 + wheel.  The LED bulb is something new to me, and the triple-chip design used to be way expensive.

Edit:  Oh, not triple DLP, but 3 different LED light sources in primary colors.  Cool!  At least I think so from the diagram.



The only downside to this is that it still needs to be sequential, like the color wheel, because each color needs to be produced at a unique point in time.  This causes a form of artifacting that can be detected by moving your eyes across the picture from one side to the other.  That's the other negative aspect of DLPs that don't use 3 independent DLP chips.  If you can see the set in person before buying, try scanning across the screen with your eyes in different directions and at different speeds, and see if that bothers you.

Edit 2:  Surprisingly deep CNET review

[Quemaqua]

God I wish I could blow 2 grand on something like that.

[Quemaqua]

 ... and apparently I can.  Despite all my bitching, Julia's always been the one who wanted to get a big widescreen TV, and tonight she more or less demanded that I look into it.  She wants to get something that's in the 40+ inch range and pay as much as maybe $1400-$1600.  I'm now in the process of dusting off my anachronistic knowledge of TVs and trying to figure out what the hell all this new stuff is.  I think I'm getting some of it now.  I want 1080p since this is definitely for gaming, I need something that also does a good job with DVD movies since that's even more important to her than gaming, and I'd definitely like something that isn't going to fall apart.  I want to look into Panasonic TVs specifically just because I really have good experience with the brand, but I need to see some reviews on their stuff since they aren't listed anywhere as being particularly high rated.  I hate Sony, so they're out, and Samsung is supposed to be more expensive, so they're probably out too.

It feels weird that my wife wants this more than I do.

[Raisa]

very funny.. wife demands.. que becomes meek..

[Ghandi]

Women...you have to let them have their way or they will start to bitch and moan.

[Quemaqua]

Well, word amongst reviewers is that Panasonic is good stuff.  They've got great image quality most of the time, and several of their plasma models reviewed with amazing scores in terms of image quality.  This one looked pretty nice to me and can be had for what seems like a decent price, though it was one of the most expensive models on the market when it released.  Would I pay a little extra money for Panasonic?  Yes, actually, if it wasn't a ridiculous amount.  Again, I've had really great experiences with them across several different devices and would swear by their standard TVs that I've used.  This CNet review is slightly less glowing but confirms that at its release it had the best picture quality in its size class.

So... using that as a benchmark... what do I look for?  It's a plasma, so that means better viewing angles and stuff from what I've seen, but what are the true disadvantages of plasma?  Is this model too old to be free of some of the problems people have talked about?  I don't have money, so reliability is absolutely a huge factor.  This thing has to work for years, end of story.  If LCD is the only way I'm getting lifespan, then screw plasma.  I've already ruled out DLP because of this.  My father in law had a horrible experience with an older plasma model that turned entirely blue, so I need to make sure I'm not heading anywhere near that territory.  This thing will see a lot of use, too, so it'll need to be up to the task.  I hate the piano black finish on these things.  It's glossy, annoying, and not classy in my view the way most people seem to think it... but finish is entirely secondary to everything else.  If it's a good product that does what I want... who cares?  I'd rather have a TV with inputs in front as I had trying to maneuver around the back of a TV to plug stuff in and we switch game systems around pretty much constantly in my house, but I've only seen a couple models that do that (I guess people find plugs sticking out of their set to be an eyesore... snobs).

I'm not set on this model by any means, but it seemed like a good place to start.  What do you guys think in terms of pricing, age, reliability... that kind of stuff?  Any help is greatly appreciated.  I'm really, really new to this.

[Cobra951]

Have a look at Hitachi 42" plasmas, see what you think.  You can get these for a decent price, and they look terrific.

[Antares]

I'd rather have a TV with inputs in front as I had trying to maneuver around the back of a TV to plug stuff in and we switch game systems around pretty much constantly in my house

Why don't you just cave and spend the $15 for one of those multi port switchers?

[Quemaqua]

Because we have 5 or 6 systems spread across 3 different displays in the house.  It has nothing to do with inputs, everything to do with what room we decide to play what game in.

[Cobra951]

This is about what I had in mind.  Don't let the odd resolution scare you (1024x1080).  You get full vertical res for 1080 at that size, which is pretty good.  Plasma has long pixels.  For full 1920x1080, you have to go to 50 inches.

[Quemaqua]

I don't quite understand what that means.  1024 isn't anywhere near 1920.  I'm bad at this.

Anyway, if I'm not to be afraid of it, it looks like a nice set.  Is a fair bit cheaper than the Panasonic, too.  I know nothing about Hitatchi, however, as I've never owned anything of theirs.  Are they decent?  Again, this thing has to last pretty much forever.

Also, and this is the dumbest thing ever... I've never owned a widescreen *anything* before with exception of my PSP (haha), so I have no idea what kind of shelf space we're talking here for a 42" TV and I suck at math like crazy.  How many feet wide are we talking here, and how does the vertical size match up to a 35" standard tube?

[Cobra951]

I made a post some time back about calculating the dimensions of the rectangle from the diagonal and the aspect, and to do things like figure out keeping area the same as the old tube when going widescreen, or alternately, keeping height the same.  It's a polar/cartesian coordinate conversion thing.  I'll try to locate it.

No, you don't get 1920 pixels across.  You get 1024.  The pixels are long horizontally.  You need a really big screen to squeeze 1920 of the little buggers side by side.  Do you intend to hook up your PC to your big-screen TV?  If so, you need to consider not only the resolution, but also the capability of the inputs.  This set has 3 HDMI ports, and will probably work with a video card which can function properly in this environment.  The new Nvidias are sure to comply.

Edit:  Found it:

You would think that I'd be bored with this by now, but it seems my brain has kept churning on it.  Finally, I had a flash of old memory get triggered by it all: polar vs cartesian coordinates, and the 3 trig functions needed to convert between them--sine, cosine, and arc-tangent.  It's all so simple that now I feel stupid for all the math-major thesis stuff that has been preying on my mind.

You can get the angle of the screen's diagonal from horizontal directly from the aspect ratio.  Call the angle "Theta".

   Theta = atan(y/x)

Since Y/X is a ratio, the actual X and Y dimensions don't matter.  All that matters is the ratio of those numbers, which happens to be what we already know: aspect.  So, for example, for 16:9 (X:Y), that equation becomes atan(9/16).

Once you have Theta, getting X and Y from a known diagonal length is cake.  Call the diagonal's length "R" (for radius from the origin--after all, we're converting from cartesian to polar coordinates, and back again).

   Y = R*sin(Theta)
   X = R*cos(Theta)

See the results below for 3 of the 4 screens I own. 


23" 16:9 LCD screen:

Theta = 29.357753542791272457179755551199 degrees

Y = 11.276"
X = 20.046"

Area = 226.04 sq in


22" 16:10 LCD screen:

Theta = 32.005383208083495560790645750405 degrees

Y = 11.660"
X = 18.656"

Area = 217.53 sq in


18" (viewable from 19") 4:3 CRT screen:

Theta = 36.869897645844021296855612559093 degrees

Y = 10.800"
X = 14.400"

Area = 155.52 sq in


*Notes:  In the venerable Windows calculator (in scientific mode) in order to get the arc-tangent (atan), you need to check the "Inv" checkbox at the top-left, then press the "tan" key.  It doesn't matter what notation you use for angles (degrees, radians . . .) as long as you leave that alone through the whole process.  I used degrees above.


How much bigger (diagonally) does a 16:9 display need to be to keep the same height as an old 4:3 display it replaces?


Height = R43*sin( atan(3/4) )

R169 = sqrt( Height^2 + (16*Height/9)^2 )

Too complicated for my undisciplined head to reduce to a simple fraction.  Taking the example of the 18" CRT,

Height = 10.800

R169 = sqrt( 10.800^2 + (16*10.800/9)^2 ) = sqrt(485.28) = 22.029071700822983158190063422449

diagonalRatio = 22.029071700822983158190063422449 / 18 = 1.2238373167123879532327813012471

or approximately 122.38%

[Quemaqua]

No, there will be no PC stuff happening with this.  It's going into the living room, most likely with the 360 and whatever else Julia wants to plug into it (PS2 or GC).  The Xbox (original) and remaining stuff will stay in the game room with the PC.  Right now my 360 shares my PC display, which is a non-widescreen LCD.  We've got a standard TV here too.

If you can find your thing on getting the dimensions, that'd be great.  Most likely we're going to have to replace our old entertainment center if we get this thing, and I'm not looking forward to that.  At all.

So, lastly, what are the remaining limitations of modern plasma displays?  I know there must still be some downsides if some still prefer LCD, but I don't know what those downsides are.  At this point most of what I've read indicates much better blacks and less noise with plasma screens.

[Cobra951]

Here's my take on it:  Of all the technologies vying to replace CRT, only plasma uses the same paradigm.  By this I mean that only plasma has pixels which light up *directly*.  It is the only technology that will look completely "right" to someone used to CRTs over many years.  The advantages are near-perfect black levels, angle-independent color and luminance purity, and unlike CRT, perfect convergence.  Convergence can still be a problem with projection technologies, but not with LCD or plasma.  LCD has the serious problem of deriving the image illumination from a rear-mounted light or light grid.  This inevitably causes serious problems with black levels and anomalies when viewing the image from various angles.  For a big TV which sits in a fixed position in a living room, this last one is a much bigger problem than it would be for a small monitor one always sits directly in front of.

Projection technologies have similar problems to LCD direct view, and add several others.  The advantage is very large sizes for lower cost.

Edit:  I edited my last post with the math I used to calculate all that stuff.  The magic number to keep the height the same as your old tube is 122.38% (old_diagonal_size * 1.2238 = new_diagonal_size).

[idolminds]

How do they squish a 1920 image into 1024 pixels? Is the TV trimming or resizing or what? But then, its got the full height to deal with. I would think that would look funky.

[Cobra951]

Simple: horizontal scaling/filtering + 1:1 mapping vertically.  Keep in mind that the vast majority of what you're going to watch is going to be scaled anyway.  Error-diffusion algorithms to scale smoothly are very good by now.

Edit:  This reminds me that Que also asked about downsides.  This is one right here.  The size of the pixels makes it impractical is small sizes, and the aspect of the pixels means you often get a lower horizontal resolution than you would expect for the aspect ratio.  Hey, you can always go for that 50" model, but it will cost you.

Image retention is a possibility.  This is not the same as burn-in, which I hear is not a big problem anymore.  Image retention goes away.  Burn-in does not.  The current estimate of plasma life is comparable with CRT.  LCD still wins out here, but I would not worry about a short lifespan for plasma anymore.  I'm not clairvoyant, though.  All I can do is pass along the reasoning I would use if I was shopping for something like this.

[Quemaqua]

People used to complain about plasma burn-in a lot.  Considering this thing will be used for hours upon hours of games, a lot of which may have static HUD stuff up for huge periods of time, I need to make sure that's not going to bite me in the ass at any point.

Also, of all the things I've looked at, that Panasonic seems like the best thing.  Only problem?  Some people have reported it dying on them within a few weeks or months due to a bunk power supply or something like that.  That's disturbing enough to keep me away despite my general love of the brand.  The Hitatchi seems pretty decent, but I still don't quite get the resolution thing.  My brain doesn't understand display stuff.  I come from the world of monochrome PC displays and old-ass TVs you have to punch in the face to get working (well, not quite that bad, but you get the idea).

[Cobra951]

Heh.  We're out of sync on the posts.  See my last edit above.

Plasma pixels (One '*' per color element):

***-***-***-***-***-***
***-***-***-***-***-***
***-***-***-***-***-***
***-***-***-***-***-***
***-***-***-***-***-***

Pixels are *long*.  You get less in horizontally than vertically.

[Quemaqua]

Hmm.  Well, that Panasonic is in like the top 3 of every site I've read for 42" plasmas, and the price is pretty good now, definitely within the range we're looking for... but that one issue concerns me.  That's the kind of shit review sites always miss because they just start up the display to check it out, then that's it, all done.  If something's going to explode in a week they'll never know.  I hate that.  Everybody I've read that had problems with the Panasonic said they did their research, determined it was the best 42" on the market, bought it and loved it, then had something bad happen.  Ugh.

This is all too complicated.  I want the TV fairy to just give me the perfect television.  Yes.

EDIT - Further research avails nothing.  Oddly enough, I can't find a better TV for the price than the Panasonic that has native 1080p display... because none of them do.  Supposedly on a TV that size you can't *truly* appreciate the difference anyway, so I don't know if getting that one would be worth the risk of the power supply problems I've seen reported.  Would it be better to just get something like the Hitachi and not worry about it?

The other issue is shipping.  I've never had a TV shipped from somewhere before, and the thought kinda' worries me, especially since places like NewEgg offer absolutely no refunds or exchanges or whatever.  But I've looked in stores, and the prices on TVs are just so much damn better online.  The differences are sometimes in the $500+ range.  That's crazy.  Who the hell is going to spend $500 more at a store for the same TV?

Arg.  So confused.

EDIT x2 - And the confusion continues.  I've seen numerous reports of the Panasonic TH42PZ700U model failing, but no reports of the 50" TH50PZ700U model doing so.  Supposedly these are the exact same TV except one is bigger... but is there a chance they'd be using different boards in them?  Some are saying power supply issue, others are saying circuit boards... but so far I haven't seen the complaint with the 50" model.  Most people also seem happy with the 42", but the fact that in 40 reviews on a site I see maybe 5 with a lousy rating because the TV broke concerns me.  The 50" is a hell of a lot more, but if it's more reliable... I dunno'.

I've checked a billion sites and nobody can seem to agree on what brands are best and which lesser brands are at least reliable enough to consider.  Panasonic, Samsung, and Pioneer consistently come out on top, and there are lots of people who definitely swear by Panasonic for the price.  That keeps making them look like the most attractive option to me.  The 42" at this point would be a no-brainer if it weren't for that stupid issue of possible manufacturing defect.  I don't know what kind of support Panasonic offers there, or whether or not getting an extended warranty for it would be the smart thing to do if I decided to go for it.

[scottws]

One thing to remember about bad reviews:  If someone has a bad experience with something, they are far more likely to say something about it than someone who had a great or especially a good experience.

[Cobra951]

Supposedly on a TV that size you can't *truly* appreciate the difference anyway . . .

Never listen to anyone who tells you this.  It all depends on how far away you sit from the set, how good your eyes (+glasses/contacts) are, and the resolution of the source material.

[Pugnate]

One thing to remember about bad reviews:  If someone has a bad experience with something, they are far more likely to say something about it than someone who had a great or especially a good experience.

Yea, I was thinking about this. On my website I've sold 10,000 + items. I also have a comments section like eBay, and most of my customers who are satisfied never post! I still have 99% positives on it, but still. People like to be vocal only when they have an issue.

[Raisa]

My aunt has the panasonic you're looking at Que.  It's okay, but she wants to change it for something bigger! 

My grandma has this in the living room upstairs   It's a Phillips and is in your price range.  It's cool.. sharp images... very reliable.  but the best one is the one in my grandma's room but it's bigger than what you are looking for.  i'll look for a pic of it.