Topic: Antigua - An-tee-gwa! GOO-AH!

[Cobra951]

Antigua means "ancient" in Spanish and was named by Christopher Columbus after a church in Spain, Santa Maria La Antigua

"Antigua", the name of the island, is a Spanish word.  It means "ancient", feminine gender.  There is ZERO pronunciation leeway in Spanish, none at all.  A 'U' before an 'A' or 'O' is never EVER fucking silent.  If I hear one more fucking idiot on TV call it "Antiga", I'm . . . hell, I'm not going to do a thing except have a fit.  I'll just rant about it here, in the hopes that at least no one using that word in this community gets to sound unintentionally like a moron to the Spanish-speaking part of the world.

Sorry, it's the banking bullshit involving the island that's bringing out all this rage.  Didn't I say I wasn't going to listen to the news anymore?  Serves me right for giving in.

[W7RE]

I didn't know there was an island called Antigua. I still would have pronounced it properly though. People are just dumb I guess.


Buena Vista. That's a town in Colorado. I remember local news stations calling it "byoona vista".

[idolminds]

And whats the deal with airline food?


Sorry, first thing that popped into my head.

[Xessive]

Hahaha yeah that crap bugs me too. I hear all the time with all Arabic nations.. Like Eye-Rack, Eye-Ran, Soddy Arabia, Quatar, Oh-Man, See-ria, The Sedan, Egypt (I guess that one is technically ok but in Arabic it's called Misr, so "Egypt" is not even close!).

I remember some news stations calling Buenos Aires "byoonos ayers"

I recall I made the mistake of pronouncing Arkansas "Ar-Kansas" I figured "well, there's a Kansas, this must be pronounced similarly."

I find it all amusing though, so it doesn't bother me so much It's especially hilarious when I hear them in a really hard Southern American accent

[scottws]

Hahaha yeah that crap bugs me too. I hear all the time with all Arabic nations.. Like Eye-Rack, Eye-Ran, Soddy Arabia, Quatar, Oh-Man, See-ria, The Sedan, Egypt (I guess that one is technically ok but in Arabic it's called Misr, so "Egypt" is not even close!).

Wow, I'm guilty of some of those.  Hear are mine:  eer-ahk, eer-ahn, sahw-di arabia, ka-tar, oh-mahn, see-ree-ah, the soo-dahn.

I recall I made the mistake of pronouncing Arkansas "Ar-Kansas" I figured "well, there's a Kansas, this must be pronounced similarly."

Yeah, that is one of those bafflers.  Like Louisville = "Loo-ah-vuhl", bologna = "bahl-oh-nee", Favre = "fahrv".

[Xessive]

Hehe Actually some of your pronounciations are pretty close.. eer-ahk & eer-ahn are a lot closer than Eye-rack & Eye-ran hehe And Soo-dahn is just right, emphasis on the 'soo' of coourse

Oh that reminds me, in Canada there's a little place called Sault St. Marie, which is pronounced "Sue-Saint-Marie" but most people (myself included) call it "Salt-Sanit-Marie" at first

[scottws]

Ah yes, the French and their love of silent letters.

[Quemaqua]

I have the secret weapon: I never pronounce any of them out loud, so my ignorance of proper pronunciation goes entirely unnoticed.

[idolminds]

My friend from school and I used to pronounce balogna as "ball-ohg-na" just to annoy people. I still do it, too.

I also pronounce Favre as "fahv-ray" which really annoys the sports fans in my family.


If you pronounce the "s" in "Illinois" I will hunt you down and kill you.

[Cobra951]

Haha!  Yeah, I'm sure we Westerners butcher stuff from very foreign languages to us.  But Spanish is just not that far removed, and it's so common in the new world.  What bugs me most about mispronouncing "Antigua" is that it has to come from someone thinking they know better than most people (who would say it correctly by default, since the phonetics are obvious--well, maybe a short 'i' sound, but I can live with that).  That's because when a 'G' comes before "UE" or "UI", the 'U' really is silent.  That's the (absolutely inflexible) convention to get a hard 'G' sound before 'E' or 'I'.  If you want to pronounce the 'U', you need 2 dots above the 'U' (in Spanish called "dieresis")--like this: Mayagüez (MAYA-GWEZ).

Remember the Mayagüez?  It was a ship which was involved in some international big to-do quite a while back.  Maybe you don't.  It's been so long you were all probably too little, or not even born.  But guess what?  Most of the American reporters called it "MAYA-GHEZ", again thinking they were so fucking smart.  That bugged the hell out of me too, because my mother's parents lived in Mayagüez, a town on the West part of Puerto Rico, for many years.  I visited as a kid very often.

Edit:  Jesus.  The Mayagüez incident was in 1975.  God, I'm old.

[Quemaqua]

I apparently always pronounced Antigua right, though for some reason I'd have pronounced Mayagüez wrong.  I really hate Spanish as a language, probably mostly because people who speak it have been the bane of my life for the last year or so (I believe my neighbor problems are well documented enough here, eh?).  I don't know if I liked or disliked it before.

[W7RE]

I think the big deal with Antigua for me would be that Spanish is so present here in the US. I'm sure I'm guilty of a lot of mispronunciations of names like Iran, Iraq, etc. (I do say eye-ran, eye-raq, haha) But really, I've never really had personal experience with the native languages of that area. The one guy I know from anywhere near there is Indian, and he has near perfect english, no accent that I can detect, and I've rarely heard him speak in his native tongue.

Spanish though, is something a lot of people in the US hear a lot.

[Cobra951]

I apparently always pronounced Antigua right, though for some reason I'd have pronounced Mayagüez wrong.  I really hate Spanish as a language, probably mostly because people who speak it have been the bane of my life for the last year or so (I believe my neighbor problems are well documented enough here, eh?).  I don't know if I liked or disliked it before.

Yes, but are they documented?   

I didn't know they were Mexican low lifes.  I imagine a lot of older Jews hate German too.

[Xessive]

I have the secret weapon: I never pronounce any of them out loud, so my ignorance of proper pronunciation goes entirely unnoticed.

Hehe better to stay quiet and look stupid then open your mouth and remove all doubt That pretty much saved me throughout uni!

I've always pronounced "bologna" as "bo-lo-nya" I think it's a habit I got from French with any G that comes before an N as in "Massignon" (Mass-ee-nyoh).

Hey Cobra how much does quesadilla spoken "kway-sa-dila" tick you off?

[idolminds]

harhar

[Quemaqua]

Yes, but are they documented?   

I didn't know they were Mexican low lifes.  I imagine a lot of older Jews hate German too.

Heh.  I used to know a little Spanish because my sister took it.  She actually taught English as a second language for a while, and she spent a year or so in Costa Rica through an exchange student type thing.  For whatever reason, the only spoken language I've ever been all that attracted to is Japanese.  It really doesn't have much to do with Japanese culture or the fact that I like games and stuff, more just that I really enjoy the way it sounds.  Full of sharp, pointed little syllables, and it's very clear and pristine.  Certain dialects of Chinese are the absolute antithesis of that to me, being much slower and more round-sounding, bulging in all the wrong places.  I think I took a semester of Spanish at some point a billion years ago, but I'm too old to remember any of that.  And again, now I'm totally just against anything even remotely Spanish because of these neighbors.  It's totally illogical, but between that and all the illegal immigration effects we see so readily here in California, I don't think it's ever going to be a language I enjoy much.

English is still my favorite, though, even if I find Japanese to be a more attractive-sounding language.  I've never gone out of my way to really try to seriously learn another language, but a big part of that is because English is so versatile and has so much depth in the many ways it can be manipulated, I've never felt the need to find a language that works differently.  I don't think it gets any better than this.

The sheer number of ways in which people utterly butcher it can be a little infuriating; but perhaps that's best left for another topic.

[Cobra951]

I've always pronounced "bologna" as "bo-lo-nya" I think it's a habit I got from French with any G that comes before an N as in "Massignon" (Mass-ee-nyoh).

Hey Cobra how much does quesadilla spoken "kway-sa-dila" tick you off?

Bologna (pronounced [boloɲa], from Latin Bononia

   Not a bad habit at all.  You're just more cultured than most people who eat the lunchmeat.

Qway-sa-dilas and vagitas.  You're making me hungry.

English is still my favorite, though, even if I find Japanese to be a more attractive-sounding language.  I've never gone out of my way to really try to seriously learn another language, but a big part of that is because English is so versatile and has so much depth in the many ways it can be manipulated, I've never felt the need to find a language that works differently.  I don't think it gets any better than this.

The sheer number of ways in which people utterly butcher it can be a little infuriating; but perhaps that's best left for another topic.

Here's a fun fact for you.  When you read Japanese written in the Roman alphabet the correct vowel phonetics are . . . Spanish!  Actually, Portuguese.  Close enough for me to have no trouble sounding out Romanized Japanese words.  ("Gaiden" is "guy-den", not "gay-den".  Haha!)

Spanish is a much richer language than English.  English can be more concise, but not always, because that richness allows many more variations of single words.  (E.g., "hablemos" is "let us speak together".  "To be" is 3 different Spanish verbs.)  However, Spanish can be spoken faster.  That's not just because I'm a native speaker.

All Spanish people in this country suffer the effects of the lowest mutts from Latin America infesting it.  Being French is considered romantic, cultured.  Being Spanish, well, you know what you think.  Yet that French guy's family came from very close to where my family originated.  We're both Europeans from good families.  C'est la vie.  Asi es la vida.

[Xessive]

That's so true about Japanese in Roman alphabet! I think Spanish (maybe an inherent Arabic disposition too) is what really helps me immediately get anime and manga

There are 3 "to be" forms in Spanish? I thought it was just ser & estar! Enlighten me Mighty Cobra, I must know!

Spanish, French, anything remotely exotic comes off as romantic and cultured out here! Chicks here are fascinated by it. As soon as they hear any language that's not English or Arabic (or Hindi or Tagalog [Phillipino]) they're attention is all over it.

Cobra, I may have adopted your ethnicity for short bursts. It's totally sexy here

[Cobra951]

I've gotten into arguments about "to be" before.  "Ser" (purest form of "to be") and "estar" (to be somewhere or in some condition) are the obvious ones.  But there's also "haber" (for there to be something, or for something to be).  It can sometimes take on a meaning similar to "to have", but not quite the same.  "To have" in Spanish is really "tener".

"Hay leche" = "There is milk"
"Tengo leche" = "I have milk"

"Alla hay pan" = "The bread is over there"
"Alla esta el pan" = "The bread is over there"

Yet those last two don't mean exactly the same thing.  The first means that bread exists over there.  The second means the bread is situated over there.

Edit:  Maybe that's what I need, moving over by you.   

[Quemaqua]

I guess "richness" varies somewhat by definition, but for my money, nothing is richer than English.  27 words to say the same thing don't necessarily equal richness, and mechanical structure has as much to do with it as anything.  There is no more versatile language as far as I can tell, and it is often much more literal and grounded than other languages. Like your example of bread existing or bread being situated -- you might call that rich, I call it a distinction much better stated literally.  For me, that's where the beauty in English lies, because subtlety must often be constructed.  That to me is a big part of the beauty of English poetry, where many other languages rely on a lot of vagaries built into the languages themselves.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, and there's certainly an inherent nobility and self-contained cultural spirit that does well in that sort of communicative environment, but it's not my preference because I prefer to enjoy the freedom of manipulating the language, not having to work within the confines of it.

Also, for Japanese that would really be "gah-ee-den".  It's just spoken very fast, thereby ending up sounding like "guy".  I think.

[Xessive]

Thanks Cobra. In my Spanish classes we barely touched on "haber" as a fully functioning "to be" only in certain phrases, I guess that's why it didn't click at first. I suppose it's a condition of availability rather than possession like "tener."

¡Muchas gracias!

[Cobra951]

De nada.  How far did you go?  Can you speak it at all? 

I was lazy in my last post.  I skipped a lot of punctuation I would need some extra effort to get.  So don't trust it too far.

[Pugnate]

The only thing I know about Xessive's Spanish class is that his teacher was incredibly hot.

[Xessive]

Man.. That was love.. She was ~fiiine~.. From Uruguay.

Hablo Español un poco y comprendo bien pero yo necessito practicar.. mucho.

Knowing French made it a little easier overall but there were some really confusing moments when I'd forget which language I was speaking! I think that's the case with most Latin based languages. I picked up a bit of Italian when I was working for an Italian company in Dubai, it's close enough to Spanish that I could understand what people were saying or at least the gist of it, but responding was a whole different matter.

Spanish is still my favourite of the Latin bunch. Occasionally I'll play some games in Spanish just to practice With most European games I get Spanish is included as one of the 5 or so languages.

[Cobra951]

Great!  So you are basically fluent in Arabic and English, and near fluent in at least Spanish and French?  That's exceptional, around here anyway.  I took French in my senior year in high school, but that's only because they wouldn't allow me to take Spanish.  I went through the first 3 HS years in Puerto Rico, and if I had taken French there, I'd be speaking it by the end of high school.  But here, the concept of speaking more than one language is itself foreign.  So things went at such an easy snail's pace that I really didn't get to pick up much.

One weird thing is that we don't capitalize language names in Spanish.  English is ingles and Spanish is español.  Don't ask me why.  It makes more sense the other way.

[Xessive]

Great!  So you are basically fluent in Arabic and English, and near fluent in at least Spanish and French?  That's exceptional, around here anyway.  I took French in my senior year in high school, but that's only because they wouldn't allow me to take Spanish.  I went through the first 3 HS years in Puerto Rico, and if I had taken French there, I'd be speaking it by the end of high school.  But here, the concept of speaking more than one language is itself foreign.  So things went at such an easy snail's pace that I really didn't get to pick up much.

Thanks man. I've always been fascinated by languages and linguistics. Being bilingual gives you many advantages in general, especially in the effort to try learning new languages. I guess that's why in Canada they really stress on learning French (or any other language for that matter) alongside English.

One weird thing is that we don't capitalize language names in Spanish.  English is ingles and Spanish is español.  Don't ask me why.  It makes more sense the other way.

haha yeah that's my English dominating there even in class the teacher always called me on that! I insist that names and titles should always be graced with capitals!

Hmm, it could be an Arabic influence on Spanish. In Arabic there are no capital letters. Just letters.

Languages and liguistics.. Funky stuff.

Ever feel that English has more exceptions than words that actually follow the rules?

[Cobra951]

Hmm, it could be an Arabic influence on Spanish. In Arabic there are no capital letters. Just letters.

Languages and liguistics.. Funky stuff.

Ever feel that English has more exceptions than words that actually follow the rules?

An Arabic influence on Spanish?  Nah!  800 years of occupation by the "moros" is not enough, is it?

Here's 4 words that immediately come to mind:

almohada - pillow
ojala - hopefully
reloj - clock or watch
alambre - wire

[Xessive]

Yeah man, it's funky we're like cousins or something!

Here are my 4:

Camisa - shirt
Arroz - rice
Albaquía - the remainder (I know this one from getting my change from a bill)
Carmen - vine

There are tons.. Spanish came easy to me since I already ha dthe pronounciation down. What I love about it, and what makes it stand out over most other languages, is that words are spelt the way they sound for the most part! There are a few minor exceptions but overall spelling in Spanish is practically phonetic. I think you mentioned taht earlier too

[Pugnate]

I speak Klingon.

[Xessive]

I speak Klingon.

Lok-taaaargh!!

Is Klingon basically Orcish?

[Cobra951]

Yeah man, it's funky we're like cousins or something!

Here are my 4:

Camisa - shirt
Arroz - rice
Albaquía - the remainder (I know this one from getting my change from a bill)
Carmen - vine

There are tons.. Spanish came easy to me since I already ha dthe pronounciation down. What I love about it, and what makes it stand out over most other languages, is that words are spelt the way they sound for the most part! There are a few minor exceptions but overall spelling in Spanish is practically phonetic. I think you mentioned taht earlier too

Whoa.  Only albaquía is obvious to me from that list.  The others I didn't associate with Arabic influence.  "Arroz", OK, but "camisa", really?  How about that.

Pronunciation of the written word is completely set in stone (completely described with spelling, punctuation and rules).  Exceptions would be foreign words, not Spanish words.  The only ambiguity when writing Spanish down from the spoken word is entirely related to the silent 'H', and to 'Y' used as a vowel.

Alright, cuz!  So how's my extended family doing these days?   

[Xessive]

We're alright Chillin' and shiz! hehe

Man, just thinking about all this makes me wanna visit Andalucía. It's on my bucket list for sure, though I'd like to make it more immediate.

I just looked up a wikipedia entry on Spanish/Arabic influences, which sidetracked to Arabic influences on English, which led me to the be all end all argument for the pronounciation of "Adobe" haha

I was aware that adobe meant clay brick but I wasn't sure about its origin. Apparently it originates from Arabic, I think some time around when the crusaders were galavanting around here, from the word "Al-Ttoob" which means clay bricks. And its proper pronounciation is in fact "ah-dowb" not "ah-dow-bee" haha I now I know how to settle that argument when people try to correct me when I mention Adobe Photoshop et al. I wish I knew this back when I was in uni. Coulda shoved in my prof's face.