Author Topic: Left 4 Dead 2 announced  (Read 36258 times)

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 11:45:57 AM »
Having gone through the many reactions I have been pleasantly to note that the majority of people (say 80%) have been left upset.

Though the fans on PC gamer are just nuts.

edit:

Well, come on, it doesn't have 4 maps. Those are 4 campaigns and about 20 maps.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #41 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 11:54:51 AM »
They only reason its 20 "maps" is the engine can't handle single maps that large.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 12:26:22 PM »
They only reason its 20 "maps" is the engine can't handle single maps that large.
True.

Hehe the irony of course is that Valve has announced that they will be leaving us for dead.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 02:53:33 PM »
So, okay -- the game has 5 campaigns.

But time-wise, how long is it to finish each entire campaign?

How many "maps" are in each entire campaign?
Is it 4 maps per campaign again? Or does the number of maps vary from campaign to campaign?
Or are there more maps per campaign?

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 03:05:33 PM »
D it is a multiplayer game. Who cares about time?

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #45 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 03:14:16 PM »
D it is a multiplayer game. Who cares about time?

Actually, if we look at the "Campaigns", whether you play them online with friends or offline alone -- these ALL act more like SP portions -- they have a start and an finish.

So, say there were 10 campaigns -- and they all took 1 hour to finish. Would anybody really be complaining then about this sequel?

I highly doubt it.

Offline scottws

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday, June 03, 2009, 05:30:20 PM »
Die Valve die.

Sorry, I was feeling left out.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #47 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 12:21:33 AM »
Actually, if we look at the "Campaigns", whether you play them online with friends or offline alone -- these ALL act more like SP portions -- they have a start and an finish.

So, say there were 10 campaigns -- and they all took 1 hour to finish. Would anybody really be complaining then about this sequel?

I highly doubt it.


To be honest, most people who bought the game got more value out of it than most games you can buy. Gamers have gotten over 6 months of entertainment, so it is kinda stupid to calculate the hours in maps in a multiplayer game.

It would be like doing that in Demigod.

Yea the L4D2 thing is effed, but L4D1 was still the definitive zombie game experience for me.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #48 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 07:02:10 AM »
I disagree.  For a "multiplayer" game, there's very little variety and things play out almost the same each time you play.  It really isn't a multiplayer-focused game, it's a shooter that happens to have a coop feature which was given more focus than it really deserved.  Don't get me wrong, I had a ton of fun, but that didn't last.  I have no desire to play it anymore because every time I play, it's basically the same thing.  Demigod is an *actual* multiplayer game where most matches play out quite differently and there are many different demigods to choose from, all of which play differently from one another.

Again, it isn't a bad game, but it wasn't worth what they were charging for it IMO (again, I didn't buy it or I still wouldn't own it), and the only thing that made it worthwhile was the thought of new content to play down the road which would make it fresh again.  Which they haven't delivered at all in any worthwhile manner.

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Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #49 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 07:32:37 AM »
I agree with Que. It's more like an ambitious mod than a complete game as it stands right now.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #50 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 01:55:50 PM »
To be honest, most people who bought the game got more value out of it than most games you can buy.
I've got about at least over 40 hours or more logged into the game, myself. Most of it, probably in the first few weeks I had it.

I ain't played it much since then -- b/c of the lack of different content. I did play Survival mode for a little bit, when it dropped; for a few hours -- but, not too damn much. They really didn't offer up much new maps for Survival mode. Most of the Survival mode maps, they are one of the defense sections from one of the pieces in the Campaign.

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Gamers have gotten over 6 months of entertainment, so it is kinda stupid to calculate the hours in maps in a multiplayer game.
If Shadowrun PC didn't get a bus pass b/c of it lack of maps -- which many liked quite a bit but felt the game lacked maps, maps, maps -- why the hell should Valve get a bus pass here, as well?

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It would be like doing that in Demigod.
All four characters in L4D play exactly THE SAME. The same CANNOT be said for Demigod -- in which each Demigod has their own array of abilities, advantages, disadvantages, etc etc. Plus, the skill trees are so extensive, your character is going to wind-up quite different by the time you finish each battle.

If you want to complain that Demigod has no SP campaign, then fine -- I'm with you on that one. I feel the same about Sins of a Solar Empire, as well, since we're on that note.

Demigod has four different game modes -- Conquest, Domination -- and hell, I forget the other two. Meanhhile, L4D has three -- Campaign, Versus, and Survival.

I do wish there were more than EIGHT maps that shipped w/ Demigod.

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Yea the L4D2 thing is effed, but L4D1 was still the definitive zombie game experience for me.
Nobody is arguing that L4D is the definitive zombie game experience. I think it's the best zombie game around, as well. It's just I don't think Valve is offering much bang for anybody's buck -- yeah, especially now, since they are pretty much killing L4D1's support here.

L4D1 can have DLC all it wants, but I think people will stick w/ L4D2. Really though, L4D2 should've been priced as an expansion.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #51 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 03:28:30 PM »
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I've got about at least over 40 hours or more logged into the game, myself. Most of it, probably in the first few weeks I had it

That's pretty much it. How many singleplayer games can you get 40 hours out of? Or half that?

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #52 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:13:57 PM »
That's pretty much it. How many singleplayer games can you get 40 hours out of? Or half that?
Depends on the length of the entire game and also how many times you actually decide to replay the game.

Many RPG's, you can bank some good 40 hours out of for ONE run through -- usually, that's if you also decide to do a lot of the side missions/quests, especially in more recent years. I can list many of them -- Fallout 1,2,3; Planescape: Torment; Oblivion; Morrowind; Witcher; Baldur's Gate series; Arcanum; Vamp: Bloodlines; etc. Often, many of these games, have different endings to the entire game, as well -- so having a 2nd walkthrough can be much different than your first. So can running a 3rd, 4th, or 5th walkthrough...

In terms of shooters, good luck with finding a shooter running you 40 hours on one run through. Usually, takes a few times to run through. Deus Ex can take around anywhere from 30-40 hours to finish, depending on what you do and how much of the side stuff you do. Run through Bioshock twice, to see both different endings, that should give you around 40 hours.

STALKER: SOC's main quest should take you anywhere from 10-15 hours to run through ONCE -- but chances are, you are going to spend a lot of time doing more than following the main quest b/c of the way the game is built w/ now and then popping/generating random missions on your way all the time and b/c you're going to need to get better equipment to survive to get further through the game and its huge open-world.

L4D can be played through in 4 hours for all 4 campaigns. Meaning, you'd run through it some 10 times, at least -- if you want your 40 hours worth. If you're a person who runs through games once and moves on to something else, you'd not be happy with L4D. The endings for each campaign -- usually, you basically get away and you get the stats of your run through; there's nothing more, nothing less. Really, not much to it per run-through, now is there? And your characters here, no matter which one you are, they're not much different than each other, in terms of gameplay and style -- and, there's no multiple different endings to each campaign. It's quite the linear experience.

I ran through Shadow of Destiny some 8 times at least, to see all the multiple endings. That took me about 30 hours to get all of these different endings, by the way.

L4D, in comparison to many other games at that full price, really doesn't pack much quantity for the its original $50 tag. Regardless, what's there is great -- just, is it really worth its pricetag in terms of share content? $30 seems more reasonable, since what's there seems more like -- in terms of content, it's the size of an expansion pack.

Call of Duty 4, sure -- took me around 10 hours to finish the SP -- yeah, I died a lot! Many gamers, it took 4-7 hours. If you just did the SP only, you'd be hella' disappointed with that kind of shortness. Especially since it's linear and there's only one path here. If you came for both SP and MP or you just plan to spend a lot of time w/ MP -- which got some DLC and extra content (on the MP side) -- you'll probably get your $30-50 (retail price of what this game normally goes for, these days).

EDIT:
FEAR 2 PC -- another game, took me some 15 hours to run through one time -- b/c I died a fair amount and b/c there were some sequences where autosaves where (unfortunately) spread out a bit for me. Sure, most drilled through it in 8 hours, give or take. The SP content is pretty good -- but, is it worth $50? Not for the SP alone. Worth $30 for SP alone? I'd say yes. I didn't mention the MP at all really b/c -- well, nobody is freakin' playin' this game on the MP side over Steam, even though it has a bunch of different game modes. BTW, Armored Front MP freakin' rocks -- I must say. I wish on the MP side, they didn't leave out Slo-Mo DM, which I loved in the original FEAR. If you bought FEAR 2, you likely bought it for the SP, not the MP.

« Last Edit: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:36:30 PM by MysterD »

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #53 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:32:05 PM »
Jeeze.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #54 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:36:42 PM »
The main difference is that L4D demands the players' effort and attention to really get your money's worth. On its own the game doesn't offer much beyond a playground. If the player has a high endurance for tedium and repetition then he/she can squeeze that many hours out of it. L4D is intended primarily as a multiplayer game. By contrast, other multiplayer (i.e. Rainbow Six) and singleplayer games (i.e. Elder Scrolls) provide you with a lot more content to fill the hours should you desire to delve deeper.

L4D, in its current state, is clearly not worth the price tag especially when compared to its peers. I was the idiot who bought in to the "promise of more." On the bright side, it's a mistake I won't repeat.

I will admit that the good that came out of L4D is it revitalized online coop gameplay, or at the very least contributed to it in some way. I'm seeing many more people playing coop games and more developers making them these days and I really appreciate it.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #55 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:38:48 PM »

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #56 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:40:37 PM »
... what?
I think he just means "a pass" or "an ok"

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #57 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:45:59 PM »
The main difference is that L4D demands the players' effort and attention to really get your money's worth. On its own the game doesn't offer much beyond a playground. If the player has a high endurance for tedium and repetition then he/she can squeeze that many hours out of it. L4D is intended primarily as a multiplayer game. By contrast, other multiplayer (i.e. Rainbow Six) and singleplayer games (i.e. Elder Scrolls) provide you with a lot more content to fill the hours should you desire to delve deeper.
I think one of the reasons I was able to dig so much time out of L4D was in attempting to get Achievements. I often just play a game through and if I get a Achievement, so be it.

L4D, I worked and actually tried to get a lot of those Achievements.

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L4D, in its current state, is clearly not worth the price tag especially when compared to its peers. I was the idiot who bought in to the "promise of more." On the bright side, it's a mistake I won't repeat.
I got the $10 worth out of it my dad spent on it with my first run through, obviously. ;)

Other companies like Studio 2 of Ascaron, with each patch, they are freakin' adding new quests and junk to their Sacred 2 game -- and not charging ONE dime for it. What has Valve added with L4D1 for the money? Unlocking TWO maps in Versus mode that should've been there in the first place and added one NEW map for a NEW Survival Mode?

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I will admit that the good that came out of L4D is it revitalized online coop gameplay, or at the very least contributed to it in some way. I'm seeing many more people playing coop games and more developers making them these days and I really appreciate it.
Agreed 100%.
I just hope the genre doesn't get beat to death, though.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #58 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:46:22 PM »
Valve have responded to the “rumblings”:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/04/valve-on-l4d2-trust-us-a-little-bit/

Hmmmmmmm…..

Also:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/06/before-its-time-valve-explains-left-4-dead-sequel-to-ars.ars

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So the team brought their concepts and ideas to create a sequel to Gabe Newell, and even he was skeptical about the idea. According to Faliszek, he expressed his doubts, and claimed this move was against the character of the company. “To Gabe’s credit, and he’s a great guy to work for, he said if this is what you want to do, if this is what you’re excited about, go do it.”

So I guess Newell's giant gut suggested it wasn't a good idea.

Both links are excellent reads!

Offline idolminds

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #59 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:53:16 PM »
I don't think thats such an easy comparison to make (referring to the time played vs money spent). Just because you replay something over and over doesn't excuse the fact that it might not have all that much content in the first place.

It breaks down like this:

-A lot of people were questioning the full price of L4D at launch due to what was felt to be a lack of content. Two of the 4 included campaigns weren't available in VS. It felt unfinished.
-Valve assured everyone that L4D would see content updates like TF2 has seen. They even specifically mentioned new campaigns, new weapons, and new characters.
-People bought the game despite the lack of content because of what Valve has said. New stuff would eventually be coming, it would be worth it.
-Valve did add to the game, but it's been a little lackluster. The 2 campaigns were now fixed and playable in VS, which feels more like a bug fix than actual new content. Survival mode was added, but it only comes with one actual new map with the rest being sections of already existing maps. And so far thats it. Which would be ok except...
-They announce a full sequel only 6 months later. Instead of sticking to what they said they would do and make new stuff for existing customers they put their effort into this new game. Look how far along it is already. Imagine if they were putting that effort into the original? We'd have some new campaigns by now!

This is about feeling lied to. People made a buying decision based on what the company said and it now appears that company lied. So people are, rightfully, upset.

More interviews keep popping up, but none of them are really helping the situation. Valve saying people should "trust them" but not actually saying why they should. They keep trying to justify this by telling people how much stuff is in L4D2, which is completely missing the problem. Its not how much is in L4D2, its about how little was in L4D1 and how they already said that would change. The interviews also say that Valve still will support L4D1, but its really hard to see how. Are they going to release updates for both games after the sequel releases? I doubt that very much.

Basically, right now Valve has 6 months to release a couple campaigns for L4D. Two would be nice. Maybe they can add in another game mode. Maybe they can put in the new Director AI that does the random path stuff. That would be cool, and then mappers could use it. But as soon as L4D2 releases I can't really see them supporting both fully. So if they don't show that support NOW, then they'll be losing a lot of the trust they've built up over the years.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #60 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:54:33 PM »
Or this could be some sort of PR damage control.

"We're going to rape you, but we want you to know that we contemplated it first. That makes it ok in the almighty Newell's eyes."

EDIT:
Idol illustrates the points well. The feeling of deceipt is the overlaying issue.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #61 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 04:56:17 PM »
I smell damage control.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #62 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 05:02:14 PM »
Yea I completely agree Idol, they totally missed the point. They justify making a sequel by saying they're making a lot of content quickly so it deserves to have a pricetag. If they can make the new additions so fast then release them as they come, that's how DLC is done. Such bullshit, just reading that interview made me want to punch the shit out of guy.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #63 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 05:07:07 PM »
Its actually kind of funny watching Valve try to do damage control. Since they are so used to people kissing their feet for the last decade, I think they forgot how.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #64 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 05:35:20 PM »
Its actually kind of funny watching Valve try to do damage control. Since they are so used to people kissing their feet for the last decade, I think they forgot how.

CD Projekt could've charged DLC prices to those who wanted Side Effects DLC and Price of Neutrality DLC -- which both are good-sized DLC's; 3-5 hours per DLC, basically. I'm sure people would've paid for them, since Witcher was a very long game (over 40 hours), as it was. They could've sold the two DLC's on disc together as one expansion pack -- like what BethSoft has done with Oblivion and FO3.

Did they charge for the DLC? No. They just let loose those 3-5 hour campaigns for FREE for ALL Witcher owners.

Hell, CDPR even upgraded Witcher itself to EE and changed/fixed some voice-acting, added more animations, reworked some character models, added some dialogue back into the game, etc etc -- for FREE to all original Witcher owners. They could've forced us to re-buy Witcher: EE...

Stardock never had to give any Demigod owners a 50% coupon so they could get a friend to buy Demigod and join the party not too long after the game's release -- since Stardock and gamers were both unhappy with how the MP-scene turned out. But, they did it, anyways.

When companies give you a good reason for you to give them a chance to support them or re-support them, you do so. Valve hasn't given gamers any reason to support them with L4D2 at full price after what they've done with this series. They better come up with one. They really should look at the examples of the two above companies are doing, if they want to gain the trust of gamers alike again.

Offline scottws

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #65 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 05:53:32 PM »
I think it will be interesting to see how many people on this forum end up buying L4D2 within the first two months of release.  I'm bookmarking this thread.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #66 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 05:56:40 PM »
I think it will be interesting to see how many people on this forum end up buying L4D2 within the first two months of release.  I'm bookmarking this thread.

Depends on its price.
I'd say $30 or less -- which is expansion pack pricing -- yeah, that sounds fair to me.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #67 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 06:51:18 PM »
I think it will be interesting to see how many people on this forum end up buying L4D2 within the first two months of release.  I'm bookmarking this thread.
Haha there'd be a lotta feet in mouths :P

I'm holding strong on this point. Valve can suck it. The only way I'd even consider paying anything for L4D2 is if it's $5 or less. I can convince myself that the $5 are a processing/shipping fee and not regret it.

Offline scottws

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #68 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 06:53:02 PM »
Haha there'd be a lotta feet in mouths :P

I'm holding strong on this point. Valve can suck it. The only way I'd even consider paying anything for L4D2 is if it's $5 or less. I can convince myself that the $5 are a processing/shipping fee and not regret it.
Ooh this is some juicy crow material right here!

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #69 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 06:55:08 PM »
So, yeah -- when does Dead Rising 2 PC drop? ;)

Offline W7RE

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #70 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 08:34:33 PM »
I think it will be interesting to see how many people on this forum end up buying L4D2 within the first two months of release.  I'm bookmarking this thread.

Count me down for a day 1 purchase. Just because I want to disagree with everyone. L4D2 looks sweet, and I'll buy it.

Actually I think a lot of the Valve hate in this thread is more of just a continuation of the non stop Steam/Valve hate we have going on. Gabe Newell had pancakes for breakfast? Fuck you Gabe! You owe us more than that! No breakfast until Steam is dead!

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #71 on: Thursday, June 04, 2009, 10:14:36 PM »
I've never been a big fan of Valve as a company, and I hate Steam.  I liked some of their games, and oddly enough, L4D was probably my favorite.  That has nothing to do with this in any regard.  If Bethesda tried this, I'd be pissed as hell.  If CD Projekt did this, I'd be pissed as hell.

Also, because we hate Steam that means we hate Gabe for eating pancakes?  I never said he owed me anything other than a service that's fair to customers and actually fucking works reliably, neither point which Steam manages to satisfy.  Just because you have no issue leasing products instead of owning them doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #72 on: Friday, June 05, 2009, 12:35:53 AM »
I think it will be interesting to see how many people on this forum end up buying L4D2 within the first two months of release.  I'm bookmarking this thread.

 ;D

You should have kept quiet! Now they aren't going to buy for real.

Count me down for a day 1 purchase. Just because I want to disagree with everyone. L4D2 looks sweet, and I'll buy it.

Actually I think a lot of the Valve hate in this thread is more of just a continuation of the non stop Steam/Valve hate we have going on. Gabe Newell had pancakes for breakfast? Fuck you Gabe! You owe us more than that! No breakfast until Steam is dead!

I actually like Valve's games, and I actually like STEAM (living overseas it is my easiest access to cheaper games)... but this wasn't right.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #73 on: Friday, June 05, 2009, 01:38:31 AM »
Yea I agree with Pug, Ive never had a problem with Steam or their games so much. Actually if Valve and Gabe would just shut the fuck up, I probably wouldnt have a complaint. The problem is everytime they open their mouth, they say one thing and do something else and they just look like idiots.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #74 on: Friday, June 05, 2009, 03:54:24 AM »
Fortunately, I haven't had any major trouble with Steam (yet). I do empathize with people who have though. Then there's the constant fear of "what if they cut me off from my games library? For no apparent reason other than THEY CAN!?"

Scott, hold me to that ;) you will be my anchor!

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #75 on: Friday, June 05, 2009, 06:09:23 AM »
Quote
Fortunately, I haven't had any major trouble with Steam (yet). I do empathize with people who have though. Then there's the constant fear of "what if they cut me off from my games library? For no apparent reason other than THEY CAN!?"

It would be very counterproductive for their prolific business for them to do that because THEY CAN.

That's like saying Superman spies on Jessica Alba every night just because he has X-Ray vision and HE CAN.

Hmmmm....

You might be on to something.

Hey they should do an alternative reality comic where Superman has the sex drive of Beo and GPW combined.

The Adventures of Superperv...Hide thy women.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #76 on: Friday, June 05, 2009, 06:33:42 AM »
Check the internet and you'll find countless stories about it.  I've seen tons of stories where people's accounts get frozen, they have no idea why, and then Valve says they did something wrong and are being banned, but even while the guy is disputing it... no games.  And oftentimes they don't follow through when someone disputes a charge.  That guy's just fucked forever whether he did what they claim or not (several guys were able to prove they were away on vacation and such at the time of the charges), and all the money he spent on games is gone unless he decides to rebuild his collection via piracy.  No company should have that power, I'm sorry, for either legitimate or illegitimate reasons.  Even if somebody *does* do something, banning them from their entire library is ridiculous.  On that principle alone I hate Steam, let alone the fact that it's a badly coded resource hog that doesn't work properly.  I've had at least 3 games just arbitrarily stop working because of the program now, including Left 4 Dead, which as of now won't even run despite nothing at all changing on my system.  And it has nothing to do with the game itself because with a little ingenuity I've gotten it to run just fine outside of my installed copy of Steam.  No, it's Steam, and at this point I'd have to reinstall the program to try and get it to work.  This would be the third time I've uninstalled and reinstalled Steam to fix a problem.

Just because some people have a smooth ride doesn't mean something isn't buggy.  I didn't have hardly any problems at all with Fallout 3.  Am I now going to say it isn't a buggy game?  I'd be a filthy liar if I did.  I didn't have hardly any problems with Oblivion, either, but the same principle applies.

Anyway, none of that, as I said, has anything to do with why L4D2 is a slap in the face.  And thankfully there are plenty of people who aren't being idiots about it and just rolling over.  Steam's own L4D2 boycott group has gotten  over 7,000 members in the course of 3 or 4 days.

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Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #77 on: Friday, June 05, 2009, 06:57:56 AM »
Anyway, none of that, as I said, has anything to do with why L4D2 is a slap in the face.  And thankfully there are plenty of people who aren't being idiots about it and just rolling over.  Steam's own L4D2 boycott group has gotten  over 7,000 members in the course of 3 or 4 days.
I'm joining that group!!

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 announced
« Reply #78 on: Friday, June 05, 2009, 02:04:34 PM »
I've also had no trouble in my lifetime w/ Steam -- and yes, I consider myself very lucky, given the horror stories there have been out there w/ game bans, Steam bans, issues w/ BLOB and GCF files, issues w/ offline mode working offline, etc etc.

I like the easy access Steam gives me -- especially to Indie titles that wind up on sale cheap and even older games too -- and I wind up buying and downloading them. I often run Steam in the background when I am not playing any games just in case there's new updates or if I read there's a new update out there -- so, on this hand, I like how Steam downloads updates for me automatically, when there's new updates out there.

I don't like having to activate SP products, but I guess I have to freakin' unfortunately live with it, for now