Topic: Thinking of getting a laptop...

[Pugnate]

And I am clueless. Not sure what to get. Here there is mostly Dell, Sony, and HP. There are also laptops from Toshiba, Acer, and Asus.

I know I want a laptop with 4GB memory and possibly a core i series processor because not only are they fast, but they are quadcores.

The Dell XPS seem nice, but a little overpriced for only what seems to be a decent mobility video card add on.

Also, is there any reason I shouldn't be going for something that is 17 or 18 inches?

thanks!

[gpw11]

What do you want the laptop for?  The disadvantage of a larger screen size is a larger laptop, so if you're planning on hauling it around a lot I find that around 15" is the sweet spot. You can still edit spreadsheets and everything easily enough, and it's never a problem carrying around.

[Pugnate]

Mostly for work. Is a 17'' so much more unwieldy?

[gpw11]

No, not all that much more, but it can make a difference. I'd just make sure you take a look at one in person before ordering.  The huge upside of the 17 inch ones is that they often have a number pad...which I would love.  The downside is that they kill batteries faster.  You can buy high capacity batteries, but...yeah...bigger.

I don't know man, size isn't a huge deal to me as I basically throw it in my car and go where ever I'm going, but I could see it being a bitch from time to time depending on the situation.

[Pugnate]

What confuses me are the specs.

Basically, I can go for a 15'' Dell with a 4670 card or I can go for a 17'' laptop from HP, Sony, or Toshiba, which won't have as good a video card, but the bigger screen. I may be on the road for a week at a time, so it would be cool to be able to game while plugged in.... but is the 4670 good to begin with?

Bah...

[gpw11]

Well, what videocard would the other laptops be rocking?  Really, if gaming is something you're interested in, I'd go with the smaller Dell.  Mobile cards aren't great, but if you want to game, definitely go with something by AMD/Nvidia rather than Intel.....trust me.  The lower res/smaller screen would probably help with native performance as well.

[Pugnate]

Here is an interesting source that compares mobile video cards:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html

The other laptops are supporting either proprietary Intel crap or the NVIDIA GeForce GT 230M.

Here are most of the laptops available to me:

http://www.beliscity.com/index.php?cPath=15_129_1533&osCsid=16f433d672b8d58b4157e0e3599506e4&sort=3d&x=26&y=14

I was thinking along the same lines regarding the lower display resolution, but amazingly enough, the Dell sports the same 1920 x 1080 resolution as the larger ones.

[gpw11]

Notebooks are a lot more complicated to actually make an informed purchasing decision about (I find).  I'd check out http://www.notebookreview.com/ and see what they say about any models you might be interested in.  Maybe even make a forum account.  Considering the investment size, I'd rely on their expertise more than ours for the most part really.

[Pugnate]

OK thanks for the link. I am going there now. Been looking for info. for ages, but most websites have laptop reviews for items costing an arm and a leg. Anandtech actually apologized saying they wanted to review more midrange laptops, but all their requests were ignored by manufacturers who continue to send them the latest and greatest.

One last thing:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-4670.13881.0.html

The 4670 seems to be pretty good...

But the GT240M isn't so far behind:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-240M.17654.0.html

I can manage with older games if it means I can get a corei5 or something. Anyway, thanks for the link. Will check it.

[gpw11]

No problem, I hope it helps.

[iPPi]

You posted the M11x.  I would get that.

It's all about what you want the laptop for though, and how you weigh cost, weight, and power all together.

[Pugnate]

I wish, but Alienware isn't available here.

Here are the four I've got it down to:

Dell XPS 16 option 1:

http://www.myshop.com.pk/laptops-pakistan/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=1&products_id=979&zenid=0ac75b31f58482f5946e02e660a3744d

Dell XPS 16 option 2:

http://www.myshop.com.pk/laptops-pakistan/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=1&products_id=902&zenid=0ac75b31f58482f5946e02e660a3744d

Sony Vaio:

http://www.shophive.com/shophive/Sony-Vaio-VGN-FW550J-H-p-6815.pakistan.html

HP Pavilion DV7:

http://www.shophive.com/shophive/HP-Pavilion-dv7-2212tx-p-6828.pakistan.html


I will make a decision after researching further, but I wish there was some way of knowing what the LCD quality was.

[scottws]

And I am clueless. Not sure what to get. Here there is mostly Dell, Sony, and HP. There are also laptops from Toshiba, Acer, and Asus.

I know I want a laptop with 4GB memory and possibly a core i series processor because not only are they fast, but they are quadcores.

The Dell XPS seem nice, but a little overpriced for only what seems to be a decent mobility video card add on.

Also, is there any reason I shouldn't be going for something that is 17 or 18 inches?

thanks!

All I can say about laptops is I would only buy a "for business" laptop.  The home stuff is just pure crap, loaded with cheap parts to keep the price low.  I am not sure about the XPS, but the Inpirons are complete junk.  I would personally get a Latitude E6400.

And yes there is a reason not to go for 17" or 18" inches.  They are friggin huge!  I would get a 14.1" laptop.  When you get up to 15.4" and 17" inches, they stop being portable.

[Pugnate]

What I find amazing is that while basic configs are reasonably priced, small improvement cost an arm and a leg. It is insane, this lap top world.

For example, my brother got a compaq 15.6'' laptop which is quite good and serves purposes well. He got it for about $850.

Now the Dell XPS I want to get is a core i7 and has a 4670, which is essentially the only difference between that and my brother's compaq since they are both the same screen size, and it is looking to cost about $1550.

That's INSANE. That's an extra $700 for a somewhat better processor and a video card? That doesn't sound worth it.

[scottws]

Well a 17" MacBook Pro with a 3.06 Ghz Core 2 Duo is $2,850.  So if you compare it to that it seems cheap.  Anyway, aren't the Core i7's pretty expensive still?  On Newegg I found two for around $280 but after that they jump up to almost $600.

[Pugnate]

I did some benchmark checking, and apparently the corei7m series is a 50% jump over C2D. I have to decide if it is worth it... or if I am better off getting a decent laptop and then getting another one in a few years... which would still be cheaper.

To answer your question, they are a bit cheaper now for the desktops but still expensive.

Then again they are natively quadcores and if memory serves even a 2.0 GHz corei7 beats a 2.8 C2D.

[gpw11]

. I have to decide if it is worth it... or if I am better off getting a decent laptop and then getting another one in a few years... which would still be cheaper.

I like this idea really.  I mean, you don't need to run Crysis on the thing, right?

[Pugnate]

Yea... exactly. With a basic dedicated video card, I can at least catch up on older titles I missed.

Basically if I get two decent 15.4'' Dell  laptops, each with core 2 duos and 3 GB of RAM and basic dedicated video cards, I'd spent about the same as a single souped up XPS laptop with a core i5 or a core i7 and a 1GB Radeon 4750 and a very similar display.

Obviously I don't need two, but I am just making a point. What do I need that core i7 for? I am not going to be encoding video on this thing. I need it for work essentially.

I can save the $800 or so, and if need be, can buy that souped up laptop for that very price in a few years and kinda end up having two heh.

All I can say about laptops is I would only buy a "for business" laptop.  The home stuff is just pure crap, loaded with cheap parts to keep the price low.  I am not sure about the XPS, but the Inpirons are complete junk.  I would personally get a Latitude E6400.

This, and what I read from Que in that other thread bothers me. He had THREE laptops die on him? WTF!

If I am spending $1500 on a laptop, I want it to last three or four years. I guess this is the other reason to go with something cheaper, because if it craps out, moving on would be easier.

I've seen a lot of Latitudes here alongside the Inspirons. What makes the Latitudes so different?

[iPPi]

I have a Dell XPS and have had no problems with mine.  My XPS is 3 years old now and is used on a semi regular basis.  I think the XPS build quality is better than that of the other Dells. 

[Pugnate]

Yea I've been checking out what Scottws said.

Basically the Inspirons are crap, as he says. It looks that even Dell admits this to some degree. It seems that those laptops are reconfigured constantly, because the parts are constantly being passed on to the lowest bidders (in terms of manufacturers).

The Dell Latitudes are the best quality, and are designed to last even if dropped a few times. They are apparently made for businesses.

The Studio XPS series is supposed to be of very similar quality, though not quite as good.

The Inspirons aren't built to last at all.

It makes better sense now I guess, that the Inspirons and XPS laptops looked to have such similar configs, yet the former cost 40% less than the latter.

By the way, I may have found my laptop. It is an HP Pavilion DV6:

Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit

Processor: Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor T6600, 2.20 GHz, 2 MB L2 Cache, 800 MHz FSB

Memory: 4 GB DDR2 800 MHz RAM and support up to 8 GB

Hard drive:

    * dv6-1308TX: SATA Hard Disk Drive 320 GB
    * dv6-1319tx: SATA Hard Disk Drive 500 GB 7200 rpm

Optical drive: LightScribe SuperMulti 8X DVD±RW with Double Layer Support

Display: 15.6″ Diagonal High Definition HP LED Brightview Display with 1366×768 pixel resolution

Graphics Card: ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 4650 1 GB dedicated memory

Memory card devices: 5-in-1 integrated Digital Media Reader for Secure Digital cards, MultiMedia cards, Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro, or xD Picture cards

Webcam: HP Webcam with Integrated digital Microphone

Speakers: Altec Lansing® speakers and Audio Playback SRS Premium Sound

Keyboard: Full size keyboard with integrated numeric keypad

Communications: Bluetooth (only in dv6-1308TX), LAN

Dimensions: 37.85 cm (W) x 25.8 cm (D) x 3.4 cm (min H) / 4.1 cm (max H)

Weight: 2.88 Kg but depends on the configuration

Battery: 6-cell Lithium-Ion (Li-Ion) battery

Warranty: 1 year, parts and labour

The Dell XPS I found a few hours before coming home had a 1920x1080 15.5'' display (this has a 1366x768, probably not a con considering the limited GPU strength), a core i7 4 core (this has a C2D 2.2), 4GB DDR3 (this has 3GB DDR2), and a 4670 (while this has a 4650).

On the other hand the Studio XPS cost about $1550, and this costs less than $900.

I am going to do the sensible thing and get the HPDV6, though my god the Studio XPS was pretty.

I am sorry if I really went on in this thread. Just writing this stuff down helped my thought process.

[ren]

I second what gpw said about checking out notebookreviews.com

Laptops are so all over the place that it's hard to know what's good unless you go to the specific model. I bought an Inspiron around three years ago and it's working in perfect condition now. But what I've seen of the Inspiron lines after mine was that they sucked. It wouldn't surprise me if the line after that was just as shitty, shittier or somehow good again. I know a few people who got inspirons at the same time I did and they're all still working. People who have gotten inspirons after that haven't been so lucky. notebookreviews and random googling should be a good way of seeing where you stand.

Make sure you take a good luck at the keyboard before you buy it. I can't stand laptops which don't have a ctrl button in the bottom-left. Some have the Fn to the left of ctrl instead of to the right which would drive me insane. Others have the arrow keys placed strangely or Pg-Up and Pg-Dn in almost unusable spots.

[Pugnate]

OK I was extremely close to buying the XPS studio 1640 with the core i7 today... thank god I wasn't able to withdraw the cash...

Basically it looks dell fucked up and shipped a 90w adapter with the laptop instead of a proper 130w one. They are sending the right supply to those who call them, but even then the laptop needs a bios revision and even then doesn't work right. It seems that the only thing needed is an actual motherboard revision...

People are understandably pissed off and Dell are saying it only affects a small percentage of people who use the laptop to its maximum potential...

ughh... wtf sort of a PR response is that? If you have a corei7 beast in your laptop, what the hell do you expect people to be buying it for?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=437800

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=446193

http://en.community.dell.com/forums/p/19306277/19596373.aspx#19596373

I only found out about this by accident thanks to this thread:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1476208

There is talk of a class action lawsuit.

Again, thank god that I didn't buy it today because I would have been totally screwed with no chance of recourse.

edit:

Looks like the problem is resolved if you just go buy a 150w brick yourself.

[Pugnate]

Sorry about another thread (last one, I promise), but I can't decide and thought a poll might help. I basically need it for work and multimedia stuff when I am slacking off. The Dell is more powerful, while the HP has a bigger screen and a full keyboard.

Dell Studio XPS 1640:

Operating System     Windows 7 Professional Edition
Processor    Intel Core i7 Processor 720QM (quadcore)
1.6 Ghz and 2.8 Ghz in Turbo Mode
6MB L2 Cache
Screen    16 Inches "Edge-to-edge" Glossy HD WLED LCD display (720p) display
With Integrated Webcam
Ram    4 GB DDR3 RAM
Maximum Upto 8GB DDR3
Hard Drive    500 GB SATA Drive
7200 RPM HDD
Optical Drive & Accessories    Slot Load DVDRW
Graphics    ATI Mobility RADEON HD Graphics Card 4670
1GB Dedicated Memory
Multimedia & Security    Integrated 2.0MP Webcam Stereo Speakers
7 Watt Integrated Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer
Backlit Keyboard and Touchpad Buttons
Communication    GigaLAN, Bluetooth & Built-in Wifi
Dell Wireless 1515 (802.11a/g/Draft n)
Integrated Bluetooth Module
Wired: 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet network interface adaptor

Dimensions    Width: 15.15" (384.9mm) Height: 0.95" (24.1mm) front / 1.34" (33.95mm) back Depth: 10.02" (254.6mm)
Weight    6.4 lbs

Here is the HP:

Product Number   VZ497PA
Microprocessor   2.66 GHz Intel Core2 Duo Processor P8800
Microprocessor Cache   3 MB L2 Cache
Memory   4048 MB
Memory Max   Supports up to 8 GB DDR3 memory
Video Graphics   ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650
Video Memory   1 GB dedicated memory
Display   17.3” Diagonal HD+ High-Definition HP LED BrightView Infinity Widescreen Display (1600 x 900)
Hard Drive   500 GB (7200 rpm)
Multimedia Drive   LightScribe SuperMulti 8X DVD±RW with Double Layer Support
Network Card   Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet LAN
Wireless Connectivity   Bluetooth wireless networking
Sound   SRS Premium Sound

Altec Lansing
Keyboard   Full size keyboard with integrated numeric keypad
Pointing Device   Touch Pad with On/Off button and dedicated vertical Scroll Up/Down pad
PC Card Slots   1 ExpressCard/54 Slot (also supports ExpressCard/34)
External Ports   

    * 5-in-1 integrated Digital Media Reader for Secure Digital cards, MultiMedia cards, Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro, or xD Picture cards
    * 4 USB 2.0(4th shared with eSATA port)
    * HDMI
    * eSATA Combo
    * VGA
    * RJ-45
    * Expansion Port 3
    * 2 Headphones out
    * Microphone in
    * Consumer IR
    * AC Adapter
    * IEEE 1394 Firewire

Dimensions   41.26cm (W) x 27.7cm (D) x 3.5cm (min H) / 4.32cm (max H)
Weight   3.7 kg
Power   

    * 90 W AC Power Adapter
    * 8-cell Lithium-Ion (Li-Ion) battery

What's In The Box   HP Pavilion Webcam with Integrated Digital Microphone

[iPPi]

I personally find myself more interested in the Dell than the HP.  The spec difference doesn't seem to be that large though.  What's the price difference between the two?

Edit:  The HP is heavy too!  8 lbs for the laptop.  Add in another 1-1.5 lbs for the AC Adapter and you're taking 10 lbs with you on the go. 

I think it will come down to price and portability.  If the price difference isn't large, I'd say go for the Dell since it's smaller and therefore more portable while being more powerful too.  The HP is larger and heavier but offers the larger display. 

If you intend to take the laptop with you on the go a lot, I think you will appreciate the Dell more than the HP.  If it's going to be basically a 'portable desktop' kind of thing, but it will be in a set location most of the time, than the HP's larger display and full sized keyboard will be appreciated, but these are minor advantages IMO.  Gaming on a smaller keyboard isn't as comfortable, but I don't know about you, but I don't game on the go very often.

[Pugnate]

They are almost the same. The Dell is definitely more powerful with the core i7. Here is how it stands in terms of computing power:

http://blog.laptopmag.com/hands-on-with-intels-blazing-core-i7-itll-rip-your-eyelids-off

It also has a slightly better video card.

But the HP has a bigger display and more importantly a full keyboard.

[ren]

I would go with the HP just because it's smaller but if that's not an issue for you then it shouldn't be for me.

So before I vote, does the HP have a glossy screen? The Dell does but the HP doesn't say if it's matte or not. Glossy isn't a huge annoyance, especially if you're using the laptop indoors but if I had the choice I'd pick a matte screen in a heartbeat.

Also, 720p sounds pretty small for a 16" screen. That might be better for you for gaming but for regular computer use I'd prefer a higher resolution screen.

[Quemaqua]

Meh, I'm wary of both.  After using models from both companies when I was looking for my own laptop, I discovered I didn't like any of them that much.  Full keyboard is awfully nice though, trust me.  Don't sell that point short if you're going to be doing a fair amount of typing.

[scottws]

17.3"?  Pug, have you seen these things in person?  That's huge.  "Laptop" isn't appropriate.  It's more like a more portable desktop.  Huge!

[Pugnate]

It it possible to plug in a USB keyboard and mouse without problems on the smaller one?

Scottws, I haven't seen it in person. Unfortunately, none of the good stuff here is ever on display. You have to order it first. :|

I am going out to make my purchase in a few hours. I will insist I see both of them first.

[scottws]

Yeah a USB keyboard and mouse will work.  Why wouldn't it?  I use a mouse with my laptops anyway.  Work got me a Bluetooth Magic Mouse for this Mac, but I bought my own Microsoft portable USB mouse when I was at my previous job.  I hate touchpads.

[Pugnate]

OK so here is what happened.

I went and they were out of the DV7. They had the DV8... quadcore monster with blu ray, 1TB HD, 1GB Nvidia card etc etc.... 18''...

Here is the the thing. The laptop was insanely HEAVY. Ridiculous. I wanted it, but it seemed like such a waste and it was really huge. Bigger than I expected. It also weighed about 7kgs... about 14 pounds.

So I asked to see the Dell XPS... and it was really nice, and then for once in my life I made the sensible decision...

I got nither. I opted for a HP DV6 15 inch laptop... it is very light, has a C2D 2.6 and is exactly what I need. I also saved exactly $950... so I went and spent a $100 on a TB portable WD drive.

Business is going fairly OK, so it was never a question of money... but I was never going to game on the XPS beyond a few hours a month, so you know what... I am proud of myself.

Many years ago, I would have blown all my savings on the very best of something I didn't need. Here, I actually had the money, but I did something practical.

BTW, this is smaller than regular 15 inch laptops as it isn't a widescreen.

I am really happy I got it.

edit:

Admittedly, I do feel SOME regret about not getting the 18 inch monster, but when I am out and about, or on a plane, I think I will be pleased with my decision.

[Xessive]

I'd go with the Dell even though its keyboard is condensed. The way I've been going with laptops: if the keyboard bugs me I just attach one I like (at home or at work but not on the go of course).

The HP does look pretty sleek but it's what's on the inside that counts. The processor is the real prize in the Dell compared to the HP since the Dell's graphics card is not drastically superior. I think the Dell would serve you better in the long run.

One questions though, have you confirmed that there would be no issue regarding the bios, mobo, or power adapter?

[Pugnate]

I spoke of my decision in the post before yours. Basically went with neither and got a sensible 15'' HP laptop with a 2.4 C2D. Enough for work, really.

Que's talk of three dead laptops scared me. I don't want that to happen...  I am sure I can put the $900 I saved to use on my PC.

After doing a lot of research on laptops, it seems that basic stuff is reasonable, but when you are looking at higher end stuff, the price seems to go up much faster than the components. And while the corei7s are beasts, they seem to be sucking up a lot of power.

The corei7 on that dell, while 50% faster than the C2Q and C2D mobile counterparts, is actually really bad for the battery. It seems that normal work on the corei7 mobile will have the battery work for around 1.5 hours, as compared to the 3 to 4 hours the C2Q and C2D provide.

And I had no idea how heavy the 17 and 18 inch laptops were. They were also really awkard. I agree with Scottws that a proper term for them would be tabletops... . In the end, had I the choice, I would have definitely taken the Alienware MX11 I had posted about earlier. Not only did have some great components, it was pretty low priced for its brand and power.

But I am happy with my purchase. A 15'' laptop with a 2.6 C2D, 4GB RAM, 320GB HD at 7,200 RPM, and a 256MB video card is pretty good for a price of $550 considering it is a HPDV6.

[Xessive]

Haha shows how little I read haha I only read the first bit about the DV7 and DV8

As long as you're happy that's what matters.

I am going for the Asus G73JH-A1. Now I just have to wait for it to be released.

[Pugnate]

That looks awesome!