Overwritten.net
Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: MysterD on Thursday, January 10, 2008, 09:02:45 PM
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So, Valve does basically what they did w/ Nuclear Monkey Software. (http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=84037) (makers of Narbacular Drop, who they had work for them and w/ them on Portal).
Yep, Valve acquired another company.
This time, they Turtle Rock, who's been working on Left 4 Dead.
Valve Acquires Turtle Rock Studios [January 10, 2008, 11:43 am ET] - 22 Comments
Valve announces they have acquired Turtle Rock Studios, developers of the upcoming Left 4 Dead:
January 10, 2008 - Fresh off the success of The Orange Box, the 2007 game of the year award-winning collection of new games heralded as "the best value in gaming history," Valve Corporation announces the acquisition of Turtle Rock Studios, the Orange County-based development house behind one of 2008's most anticipated games, Left 4 Dead.
Valve was founded in 1996 and has grown to become one of the game industry's leading technology and content creators, with a portfolio of over 20 million games sold worldwide. The merger of the two companies extends Valve's development team and provides the company with a new studio in southern California.
Turtle Rock Studios' Left 4 Dead joins a growing list of Valve's game properties which includes the Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress and Day of Defeat series of games as well as Portal, introduced as part of The Orange Box.
"We have been seeing very strong growth with Steam and Source, our content distribution and development platforms, up over 150% over the last 12 months. Given our expectations for Left 4 Dead and our long-standing relationships with members of the Turtle Rock team, this was an easy decision. It also gives us a base from which to expand our development activities in the Los Angeles area," said Gabe Newell, president of Valve.
"Left 4 Dead fills a long-standing demand gamers have had for a coop first-person action experience, and it will also help Valve's expansion into the console market," added Doug Lombardi, Valve's VP of marketing.
"Valve has had great success bringing in projects and teams such as Team Fortress and Portal. As I spent time working and talking with the creators of those products over the past several years, it became clear that this was the right next step for myself, my colleagues at Turtle Rock, our customers, and our products," said Michael Booth, founder and CEO of Turtle Rock Studios. "We are excited to be a part of such a visionary and forward-thinking company."
Founded in 2002 by Michael Booth, Turtle Rock Studios is the creator of Left 4 Dead, named one 2008's most wanted titles by many of today's leading game-enthusiast publications and Web sites.
For more information on Valve, its games, or the Steam platform, please visit www.steamgames.com
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Everything Turtle Rock has ever done was for Valve. This is just making shit official.
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Originally, L4D was planned for Q1 2008.
Well, Valve's back to delaying things -- just like they did w/ HL2 and its Episodes.
Valve's delaying L4D now until around August-September 2008. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50710)
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OH NO, FUCKING VALVE. STAB THEM IN THEIR STUPID FUCKING HEART.
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haha Beo
I have a feeling they are delaying it so they can release another Orange Box with ep3. The engine is really showing its age though... Also has episodic content really worked out that well?
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hahaha. Like Episode 3 will be ready by then. Anyways, you're right about the engine. It's at the point where it not only looks a bit old, but a lot of the things they add to try to bring it up to date really bog it down.
But you do have to admit that it holds up well all things considered - specifically TF2.
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Kind of strange delaying L4D. According to Shawn Wlliot of GFW mag/podcast, the last time he played the game it was complete and ready to ship already.
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Heh. Beo's facetious comment is probably more apropos than he's aware of.
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I don't know what that means.
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Heh, one guy on shacknews probably figured out the reason for the delay: 360 version. From what I've read Valve did pretty damn well with Orange Box on 360. Makes sense to get L4D on there.
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Heh. Beo's facetious comment is probably more apropos than he's aware of.
Couldn't you just say appropriate? Show off.
But Beo just loves how D beats the dead "Valve is teh suck" horse.
Heh, one guy on shacknews probably figured out the reason for the delay: 360 version. From what I've read Valve did pretty damn well with Orange Box on 360. Makes sense to get L4D on there.
Yea that's pretty much why we got The Orange Box so late.
It sucks when a developer delays the launch of a PC game for a console.
hahaha. Like Episode 3 will be ready by then. Anyways, you're right about the engine. It's at the point where it not only looks a bit old, but a lot of the things they add to try to bring it up to date really bog it down.
But you do have to admit that it holds up well all things considered - specifically TF2.
Oh yea. TF2 looks really sexy because of the art direction.
But unless Gordon Freeman enters Toon Paradise, I expect Ep3 to really look like ass.
Newton's 4th law: "The level of ass Ep3 will look like is directly proportional to the time it is released after Ep1."
It is already a bit of an odd transition going from Gears of War to Crysis to Ep2. What if Ep3 comes 18 months from now?
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Apropos is far from an uncommon word. Buy a fucking dictionary, people. Or maybe read... I don't know, a book? Protip: TV Guide doesn't count.
Now look what you made me do. I sound like W&C.
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And here I was thinking I was funny.
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You were. Que's just one of those guys with a hard on for obscure words.
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Now we all know why Left 4 Dead was delayed on the PC until Sept '08.
An X360 version will be released at the same time as the PC version.
Certain Affinity is heading up the 360 version, which is led by a former Bungie employee -- Max Hoberman (http://www.left4dead411.com/news/2008/02/l4d-xbox-360-revealed)
Left 4 Dead Xbox 360 Revealed! - 2/17/08
The March 2008 issue of the Official Xbox Magazine features Left 4 Dead on its cover, revealing the Xbox 360 version for the first time. OXM visited Valve where they played the Hospital and Cornfield scenarios on the PC and they also had the chance to see Cornfield running on Xbox 360 development hardware. This is the first time that the press has been able to see the Xbox 360 version, which still has some ways to go to match the PC: "Valve didn't let us play the 360 edition of Left 4 Dead because it was too early and unbalanced - apparently, the zombies were so overpowered that humans stood no chance." And about the graphics, "'The 360 look is almost to where the PC is, and we'll get it up to the PC look before we ship,' promises Faliszek."
Left 4 Dead Xbox 360 Official Xbox Magazine Cover March 2008
The five page article contains about 8 new screenshots along with some others we've seen before, with some nice lighting going on. The multiplayer capabilities of the Xbox 360 were discussed with Doug Lombardi:
Left 4 Dead will feature four-player co-op and eight-player, 4-on-4 Versus matches via Xbox Live or System Link. What about a split screen mode? "That's the most relevant question that we can't answer for you today," replies Valve's Doug Lombardi with a laugh. "It's a good thing to want. Being able to play two people split-screen ... four player would be even better, but I don't think four- would happen. But for us, the idea of having two people play split-screen, playing co-op on the couch and letting the NPC's fill out the rest ... it's a pretty big feature for us to chase. But right now, we're not ready to say if it's in or it's out."
The other big news from this article is that a separate game company named Certain Affinity is handling the Xbox 360 version. Certain Affinity is a small game developer founded in November 2006 based in Austin, Texas with about 16 employees. Their first product was Halo 2's Blastacular Map Pack for Bungie and Microsoft. Certain Affinity is led by Max Hoberman, a 10-year Bungie veteran who was multiplayer lead for both Halo 2 and Halo 3. OXM explained how the work is divided between the three (now two, since Turtle Rock Studios has been absorbed by Valve):
Left 4 Dead is the work of three companies - Valve Software, Turtle Rock Studios, and Certain Affinity. As the creators of The Orange Box and the Source engine, Valve is handling the games core software functionality. Certain Affinity (the Texas company created by ex-Bungie veteran Max Hoberman) was brought on to handle 360-specific elements like matchmaking, Live support, console customization, and 360 gameplay tweaks. Turtle Rock - developer of Counter-Strike for the original Xbox and the Pc's more recent Counter-Strike: Source - owns Left 4 Dead's design. Monsters, level work, weapons, and especially the game's A.I. all fall to the Turtle Rock crew.
Max Hoberman was in charge of the entire online system for Halo 2 and 3, including matchmaking and the party system. Having that experience behind the Xbox 360 version of Left 4 Dead is very exciting - as I understand it, Halo 2 and 3 did pretty well in the online arena! Some other things of note in the OXM article: The escape vehicle on Cornfield is a "heavily armed flatbed" truck. They played with NPC teammates that "behaved impressively like human players", which is the first time we've seen Survivor AI mentioned.
OXM states the following: "EXCLUSIVE: The PC and 360 versions of Left 4 Dead will ship simultaneously, but there will be no PS3 edition." No quote is given, so until we hear it straight from the mouth of Lombardi or Booth, we're not certain. Thanks to OXM for its great coverage of Left 4 Dead, and we wish luck to Certain Affinity on its task of taming the 360 version of Left 4 Dead!
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Called that shit.
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Idol, you sure did. (http://www.overwritten.net/forum/index.php?topic=3457.msg43571#msg43571)
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Heh, one guy on shacknews probably figured out the reason for the delay: 360 version. From what I've read Valve did pretty damn well with Orange Box on 360. Makes sense to get L4D on there.
Its this magnificent thing called quoting.
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Heh, one guy on shacknews probably figured out the reason for the delay: 360 version. From what I've read Valve did pretty damn well with Orange Box on 360. Makes sense to get L4D on there.
I've read at several places that it did alright. I was just listening to shacknews podcast (best podcast out there imo), and they said it was reasonable, but could have been even better.
edit:
http://www.thesimexchange.com/stock.php?id=210
It is expected to cap at just over a million, which isn't too bad for an IP pretty alien to consoles.
Also, must consider that most gamers bought it on the PC. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that The Orange Box will sell at least 10 million copies on the PC. Yes that sounds crazy, but Half-Life 1 has sold 8 million.
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Here's a new Left 4 Dead interview. (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33952.html) I want it now damnit.
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Forget a Aug-Sept 2008 release.
Pushed back to November 2008. (http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=87951)
Left 4 Dead Delay [May 23, 2008, 1:19 pm ET] - 25 Comments
Valve Interview Part 2 on Shacknews continues this conversation with Valve's Doug Lombardi on a variety of topics. Along the way Doug mentions their interest in branching out into things like MMOGs and family-friendly games, Steamworks, and Left 4 Dead. Doug admits to another delay for the multiplayer zombie game, which was expected in the summer (story), saying it is now planned for PC and Xbox 360 in November. Doug says he thinks there will be a playable demo (though this may be after the game's release) and that they are kicking around the idea of one of those free Steam weekend deals. He also explains the philosophy that leads to so many of their games suffering such delays:
So the game is pretty much playable all the way through right now. And as we've done with most of our games, we get to a point where, it's playable all the way through, there are some [minor] issues that we need to work on, and we try to add more time to the schedule to have as many people as possible play the game, to make sure that it's approachable to players of all skills. We want to make sure that all the game that we've built gets played, not just be like, "Okay, it's complete, let's ship it."
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Originally planned for Nov. 4, but now delayed until Nov. 20 to coincide with HL's 10th Anniversary.
Hopefully, they probably want the extra few weeks to polish it up I bet, too -- if needed. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169567)
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Is Episode 3 out at the same time?!
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Is Episode 3 out at the same time?!
Good question.
I ain't heard anything about HL3: Ep 3 coming anytime soon...
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Probably end of 2009.
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Probably end of 2009.
More like 2019.
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Expect some difference b/t the PC and X360 version of L4D.
Oh, and there will be L4D DLC coming, too.
And they plan to bank this DLC out quicker than TF2's DLC updates. (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41219/Left-4-Dead-DLC-Promised)
Left 4 Dead DLC Promised
Aug 29, 2008 at 10:45 AM - Andrew Burnes - 4 Comments
1UP's Left 4 Dead Xbox 360 preview details some of the differences between it and the PC version, and also mentions DLC:
Without a doubt the biggest news is that Valve will be running dedicated servers on Microsoft's Live online service. And while they didn't indicate how many exactly they'd have going, they did imply that they'd have everyone covered, as in when you played online, you'd be on a dedicated server, period. That alone should go a long way toward making the game a great online experience, but they haven't stopped there. Splitscreen play will also allow you and a friend to play together on Live from one 360, and you'll be able to slice the screen whichever way you like -- horizontally or vertically.
Keeping on the online bonanza, writer Chet Faliszek said that Valve plans to get the DLC rolling much more quickly with Left 4 Dead than it has been able to for Team Fortress 2. Plans already in the works call for new campaigns, weapons, and boss infected (the game's zombie enemies). In addition, there were strong hints at a flamethrower coming not long after launch.
The team has also been conscientious about tuning the game to match the playing environment of the 360. Yes, a subtle amount of aim assist has been added, but it's unobtrusive. You also get a quick turn to flip around at a tap of the right bumper. Even with this, though, they've modified the A.I. some such that zombies are a little less likely to attack you from behind in the 360 version than in the PC version.
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System requirements revealed for Left 4 Dead (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54931)
* OS: Windows Vista, XP or 2000
* CPU: 3.0 GHz P4, Dual Core 2.0 or AMD64X2 (or higher)
* RAM: 1 GB for XP / 2GB for Vista
* Disc drive: DVD-ROM Drive
* Hard drive: At least 7.5 GB of free space
* Video: Direct X 9 compatible video card (Video card must be 256 MB or more and should be a DirectX 9-compatible with support for pixel shader 2.0)
* Sound: Direct X9.0c compatible sound card
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Oh, so Steam isn't a requirement?
I CAUGHT YOU IN YOUR WEB OF LIES, VALVE!
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Oh, so Steam isn't a requirement?
I CAUGHT YOU IN YOUR WEB OF LIES, VALVE!
Sue them like that girl did EA. :o
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Oh, so Steam isn't a requirement?
I CAUGHT YOU IN YOUR WEB OF LIES, VALVE!
That was such a Keebler moment.
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Here's something Gabe Newell said in the latest Game Informer, in which he takes a nice swing at game publishers. (http://www.ripten.com/2008/10/16/gabe-newell-gamers-smarter-than-publishers/)
It seems by and large that gamers are incredibly smart; the average gamer seems to know more about what makes a good game than the average person at a publisher.
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I was totally going to make a Valve joke, but it's one that would have pissed off a few people, so I'll abstain. Still, I don't think the comment is entirely accurate. Publishers know very well when they've got a good game, they just also know when they've got something that they can sell, even if it's crap.
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I was totally going to make a Valve joke, but it's one that would have pissed off a few people, so I'll abstain. Still, I don't think the comment is entirely accurate. Publishers know very well when they've got a good game, they just also know when they've got something that they can sell, even if it's crap.
Offend Valve's people or one of us? Just put it in a spoiler tag so anyone who opens it can only blame their sense of curiosity if they feel offended. I'm very curious hehe Though I'm fairly certain I won't be offended anyway :P
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Left 4 Dead interview with Chet Faliszek of Valve (http://www.ocmodshop.com/ocmodshop.aspx?a=1379)
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Whatever you do, do NOT watch this trailer (http://store.steampowered.com/app/5141/). You WILL want the game.
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I still hate the fast zombies and the whole concept still seems a little broken to me because if there are ever actually fast zombies in the world, everyone is fucked and there's no hope no matter how much of a badass you are (not to mention it breaks fundamental rules set forth by the Zombie Survival Guide, which as we all know has been endorsed by not only most governments around the world, but also the Pope and the Dalai Lama). So that sort of breaks the concept for me right there and I've been less excited about it for a while because of that (aside from the fact that it's from Valve, who I grow to hate more with every passing day).
However, that was one of the most badass trialers I've ever seen. All indications are that this game will be awesome regardless.
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Que, you are really starting to worry me.
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Ok, I watched that and then went and watched a "gameplay preview" from 1UP. (http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/10873)
1.) I think I may have gone off about this before, but 1up makes the shittiest videos out there. Talk about the game, but why the fuck do I need to see your face while you do it? It's a video; don't tell me shit, show me shit.
2.) The game looks cool, but I'm kind of suprised they're charging full price for it.
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I worry you because I like shambly zombies? I hated 28 Days Later. I like my zombies to shamble. SHAMBLE.
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Yeah, they're easier to sneak up behind and fuck that way.
What? WHAT?!
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I worry you because I like shambly zombies? I hated 28 Days Later. I like my zombies to shamble. SHAMBLE.
Your worrying me because your sounding more and more like your not picking it up, Im not playing this game by myself!
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I'm probably going to pick it up. I was being a naysayer about it at first, but it looks too fun to pass up. I'm not sure if I'll get it day one just because I might want to see how much value is in the package, but if it turns out to be worth it, I'll probably get it pretty fast so I can play with you guys.
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That was a pretty cool vid. I'd love to play this mostly because I'm starved for coop play.
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Yeah, they're easier to sneak up behind and fuck that way.
What? WHAT?!
That would be like the worst STD ever.
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Some L4D Demo impressions here (http://www.destructoid.com/left-4-dead-is-for-losers-try-left-2-die-110813.phtml)
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The whole pre-order demo thing is kind of a stupid idea. I mean, I know why they do it and it does make sense, but I was going to go download it last night and couldn't. It doesn't do much to convince me to buy the game.
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Yeah, that's just stupid. They can get away with it in this case just because the game is already so popular and has so much buzz... it'll convince a lot of people to preorder to get the demo. Most games couldn't really do that so well. Though the demo will eventually come out for everyone, right? Just exclusive to preorders for a week or some shit?
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The worst part about the demo is it EXPIRES on the 18th. So once it releases to the public (the 11th) you only get a week to download and try it. After that, its full version or nothing.
Short of not releasing a demo at all, this is about the most fucked up thing I've seen.
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Yay Valve! Let's all praise almighty Valve for their wisdom! Let's ignore the fact that they're fucking totalitarian douchebags.
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Damn, that is some bullshit.
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Wow, that is pretty retarded.
My guess on the new gaming market direction: Demos are not free! They'll cost around $5 just to give you a taste of the game they you can pay the difference to get the full game.
That would suck so much ass.
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A week is more than enough time I think to check out a demo, I can pretty much make the decision of purchasing a game with a demo within hours.
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And if you don't download and play it that week, you don't get to. What if you're on vacation? What if you were planning on downloading the demo, I don't know... the next week? Even if for no better reason than because you wanted to? Why should a demo be time-sensitive? How does that benefit the consumer in any way, shape, or form?
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I dont know, I barely play demos anymore in the first place. Its always been impressions and word of mouth thats been the deciding factor. I honestly dont think its that big of a deal.
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No, I agree with you kinda'. I mean, I'm like you and I generally know stuff before I've even played a demo. I'm sure you don't need to play a demo for this to know if you're going to dig it, just from the buzz that's been around. I just don't understand why exactly they'd do this. I mean, why go to the trouble of making a demo if you're only going to let a few people play it for a single week?
I am actually a bit interested in a demo for this, though normally I don't care so much about demos anymore. This is a bit of an unknown for me. I know people are totally into it, and I'm definitely interested, but I just want to know how much I'm going to dig it. It could very well end up being something that isn't worth $50 to me, especially when I'm so strapped for cash lately. With my finances the way they are right now, I can basically buy one full priced game a month. And that's it. And that's... not something I'm used to.
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Im not really looking at Valve from this perspective of being a tease by releasing a demo for a week only. We get a demo, not every game does this, can we not be happy with that instead of raising pitchforks and torches and wanting to burn the place down.
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I see nothing unreasonable about being annoyed with it. It's a perfectly backward situation contrary to what most developers normally do with a demo. Sure, they can release it for just a week, but it's really obvious how hard they're pushing for getting orders right out of the gate. Get the thing early or you only get a week for the demo, make sure you get the demo that week or you'll never get it, make sure everybody gets on board before they have time to scrutinize the game since even the most positive journalists have questioned whether or not there will actually be enough content to sustain the price.
I'm not saying they can't do all this. It's probably smart, *especially* if the game turns out to be short on content. And I'm not saying I think it will or won't be, as I'm more positive about this game than I have been about anything Valve has released in the history of the company since the first Half-life. I'm just saying that as a consumer, this shit annoys me.
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So, I've played through the demo a couple of times. I don't think I'm going to buy it - especially not for $45. It'd be fun to play with 3 other peeps from here or something, but it gets pretty boring (for me at least). I guess that's why the demo expires after a week.
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If the game is relatively short, lots of free DLC might be a good way for Valve to go...
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I don't think that it's really short, it's just that it gets a bit repetitive. Obviously some people are going to be into that a lot more than I am, and it's not a bad game by any means, I just don't think I'm personally going to pay full price for it.
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The other thing about this is the difficulty. It just seems way too easy on the basic one, and the harder difficulty I played on was pretty much the same - just a bit cheaper in that it took a shitload more bullets to take guys down. While that isn't really cheap, it's kind of a cop out when what would actually make it way more difficult would be if they threw like three times as many zombies at you (although there were more), I can't say if that was the hardest mode, as it was someone else's game but I kind of hope not.
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Hmm... those are interesting impressions. I'll have to wait and see how it stacks up on release.
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L4D is GOLDEN.
For the PC version, through Steam it's available for Pre-Load.
Official release date -- Nov. 18th on Steam and retail outlets. (http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=93194)
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You know, the retail version is the exact same price as the STEAM version. What the fuck?
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Retailer's rules...
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I....i don't know what that means.
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You know, the retail version is the exact same price as the STEAM version. What the fuck?
That's almost always the case.
A while back we were all complaining about how digitally distributed stuff should be a lot cheaper since there's no packaging or shipping. Yet we see no drop in prices at all, at least nothing different from traditional retail copies.
I think digitally distributed stuff should be at least $5 cheaper than retail.
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I....i don't know what that means.
Well I asked about this a while back myself, because like yourself, I was wondering why I had to pay the same price for an online version that I had to download etc. What I was told was that retailers won't stock these titles if they are being sold cheaper at launch online.
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Well I asked about this a while back myself, because like yourself, I was wondering why I had to pay the same price for an online version that I had to download etc. What I was told was that retailers won't stock these titles if they are being sold cheaper at launch online.
I guess retailers are afraid they'd be wasting valuable shelf-space if their prices were more than the online distributors from the get-go. But, retail boxes should be more costly anyways -- b/c they come w/ printed physical manuals, game on a physical disc, and other physical stuff.
I guess if retailers didn't have their way, it would mean was retailers would have to lower their price to beat or compete with the online store prices, to get people into their stores.
But truth be told, games are often cheaper (during sales and stuff) in the retail store, anyways. I do online distribution as a last resort -- if a game is MUCH cheaper, if I can't find a game I'm looking for anywhere else, if Steam's DRM is more acceptable than the retail game disc's version, etc etc, and other things of that nature.
EDIT:
Speaking of L4D, there's a rumor flipping that the game has a cereal box item that you can find, which hints that there might be a 10th TF2 class coming. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3171334)
I saw a trailer on TV other day for L4D -- damn, it looks like it could be a blast.
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Valve is selling their Valve Complete Pack for $100 over Steam. (http://store.steampowered.com/sub/1134)
It comes w/ everything made by Valve -- and yes, it will include Left 4 Dead!
So, here's the entire list of Valve Complete Pack:
Deathmatch Classic
Half-Life
HL: Blue Shift, HL: Source
HL: Opposing Force
Half-Life 2
HL2: Episode 1, HL2: Ep 2, HL2: Lost Coast
CS, CS: Source, CS: Condition Zero
DOD, DOD: Source.
Portal
TF Classic, TF2
Ricochet
So, if you've missed a few Valve games and am looking to get L4D, looks like a good deal.
Hell, could be a good deal if you're looking to gift games to people over Steam, too.
If you missed a great deal of Valve's game catalog, looks like a great deal there.
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Yeah, that's a pretty good deal if you don't own a lot of those games. As for the tenth class, I think people might be reading into that a bit much but who knows.
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The whole achievement thing had the opposite affect on me, in that I just stopped playing. I always planned to come back, but never did. When I saw the first achievement package being loaded out, I realized everything would be chaotic for a while, so I decided to come back after a few weeks. Unfortunately they kept releasing packages for every class, and I kept delaying my return until I sorta lost motivation. I'll go back at some point.
Also, is L4D really worth full price, when TF2 was sold for $20 at launch? I am too lazy to download and experience the demo.
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The whole achievement thing had the opposite affect on me, in that I just stopped playing. I always planned to come back, but never did. When I saw the first achievement package being loaded out, I realized everything would be chaotic for a while, so I decided to come back after a few weeks. Unfortunately they kept releasing packages for every class, and I kept delaying my return until I sorta lost motivation. I'll go back at some point.
Yeah, it kind of did that to me as well. I was playing it a lot and for some reason the achievement thing kind of killed it. A lot of it was that most seem impossible to get without outside help.
Also, is L4D really worth full price, when TF2 was sold for $20 at launch? I am too lazy to download and experience the demo.
Going off of what I've played of the demo, I'd say no.
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Also, is L4D really worth full price, when TF2 was sold for $20 at launch? I am too lazy to download and experience the demo.
I'd DL the demo, if it wasn't a limited time affair.
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I went back into this for about 30-45 min last night. Now, I don't know if there is an option for a traditional server browser, but I certainly haven't found it. The good news, however, is that whatever game I got dumped into had an insanely fun difficulty. We died A LOT. It was actually a lot more fun this way, although it did get frustrating as we had no chance of making it to any of the safe houses. I don't know if this was an official difficulty level or someone fucked around with something in the console (which is what the other three people thought and they'd know more about it than me), but it was like one hit and you lost most of your health. Any friendly fire and you hit the ground, and boss zombies were popping up like once every 30 seconds. If they could find a good middle ground between this and the other levels the game would be pretty awesome. Still not $40 awesome, but at least closer.
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GameSpy Review
4½ stars from GameSpy (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/turtle-rock-project/930737p1.html)
9.0 from IGN
Video review (http://pc.ign.com/articles/930/930763p1.html)
Written review (http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/818215/left-4-dead/videos/L4D_TVspot2_111708.html)
Now, if there's a ding against Left 4 Dead, it's that the fact that there are only four scenarios, which is a small number to wrap your head around, and you can play through a scenario in 20 or 30 minutes on the normal difficulty setting. On higher difficulty settings, it'll take longer. Granted, the four scenarios are highly replayable; you could play them over and over again and events unfold differently. There are two reasons for that. The first is the built-in "director" system that manages the action. If you're doing well, it will throw more zombies, like a sadistic dungeon master in a game of Dungeons & Dragons. If you're doing badly, it might decide to ease up on you a bit by providing health kits and ammunition. The second reason is simple human nature. It's a blast to play with others, but it can also be a hilarious experience, as well as a slightly frustrating one at times.
The value proposition also takes a slight ding when you discover that the Versus mode that lets you play as the zombies against other humans is only available in two of the campaigns (No Mercy and Blood Harvest). Please note that versus mode is an absolute hoot, especially in a LAN setting, but I had a lot of fun playing online as well. In Versus, one team controls the human players (you need at least a single player on the human side; the rest of the characters can be driven by bots) while up to four others play as the special zombies. If you're on the side of the undead, the game picks your special zombie class for you; all classes are available save for the witch.
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I was a bit taken back to find a well written to the point review on IGN, that didn't take 6 pages to get its thoughts across... then I saw it was by Ocampo.
Anyway, I just can't see myself paying so much money for a game that is multiplayer only, and is about the size of TF2 in scope.
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I started to have a lot more fun with it on higher difficulties in the later days, but I still can't justify the price. That shit needs to drop.
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I started to have a lot more fun with it on higher difficulties in the later days, but I still can't justify the price. That shit needs to drop.
Whether SP or MP...
Playing as humans, where each scenario is 30 mins a pop -- and we have 4 scenarios total here -- sounds VERY short.
Playing as the zombies, you can only do that in TWO scenarios (out of the 4).
How is this game $40-60 everywhere? :o
It should be at least half that. $20 sounds fair.
If this game is gonna stay that price, this game needs some official and free DLC -- and fast.
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I started to have a lot more fun with it on higher difficulties in the later days, but I still can't justify the price. That shit needs to drop.
I'll see you online when it is $25 or so.
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It seems sad at how much the game got delayed and how much lack of content there is. Then again, theres been some overhauls in the game as well that Ive seen during development.
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8.5 for X360 Version from GameSpot
Video review (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/left4dead/video/6201412/left-4-dead-video-review?hd=1)
Written review (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/left4dead/review.html)
Pretty much, the same story we've seen from the other reviews -- they think L4D is great, but it only has 4 campaign maps.
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Definite pass for me then. Knowing me, I'd get sick of playing the same maps really fast. I'm not one of those people who can rack up 800 hours playing a couple maps in an online game, with friends or otherwise. Unless it's Quake.
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That's the thing, people are all like "It only has 4 maps, but you just know that in six months it'll have like 5 more". 9 STARTS. Seriously? Give it fucking 4 stars and in six months throw down the other 5.
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And is it just me, or was there a time when people could properly develop a cohesive game and include more than a couple maps and modes, especially if taking a really long time to do it? It seems like Valve's philosophy is "Let's make a game, delay it twenty times and allow it to come out a billion years after it's announced, then include insignificant quantities of content and trickle in random bits as we go instead." It's hard to argue with their success, but just what are they doing in the studio day in and day out? Other companies can crank out stuff of the same quality in half the time with twice the content. Apparently people are fine with this, and I guess that's cool, but that's exactly what I don't want out of a game, even if I don't have to pay for the extra stuff. If I buy a game, I really need it to feel reasonably complete.
I don't want to get on another anti-Valve rant, because I don't think they're the devil incarnate or anything, but I do see this as a weird trend with them. Granted, they do make a high-quality product 9 times out of 10, or maybe even 10 times out of 10, just in terms of polish and stability and what have you. But seriously, what do they sit around doing all day? It really doesn't seem like a lot of this stuff should take so long. Like how the Behemoth took so long getting Castle Crashers out the door and it still shipped with crippling bugs.
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So who here has bought this so far?
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To go with what Que said, I think the problem is actually the Source engine itself. From everything I've read from mod developers and pro devs that have used it, it's simply a pain in the ass to work with. Importing a model is a 27 step process. The map format is outdated and very difficult to make things look organic (plus the size <LOADING> limits). The lighting is also outdated. The code itself is a mishmash of different stuff and not well documented. Go on ModDB and look at the huge list of Source mods. Now look at how many are released and of any quality. I've seen tons of mods drop Source, and even Natural Selection 2 licensed the engine and has since dumped it.
I think thats why Valve is so slow to release stuff, and when they do its limited. It just takes so much work to get stuff done in the engine and have it look good. People point at how great Valves games look and use that as proof of how great the Source engine is. I think thats completely wrong. That shows how great Valves artists are, despite the engine they are chained to. I would love to see Valves artists let loose on a modern engine without all the silly limitations. You put Half Life 3 on id Tech 5 and you will see some amazing shit.
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Yea that part just really bewilders me. It really looks like ass, and is quite ancient in every other way... yet reviewers and gamers across the net continue to suck the source engine's cock.
I don't understand it.
I swear I heard some PC GAMER editors claim Episode 2 looked as good as COD4 or Crysis...
The game looked like ass. The only things the engine still does exceptionally well at this stage are the character models and character facial animations. Everything else sucks about that engine... yet the valve pole is polished by fanboys every day.
What I also don't understand is all the extreme fanboyistic loyalty, that Valve generates. The fanboys aren't able to hear anything negative about the company... I don't even mean the level of hate Que used to dish out... I just mean normal criticism. You say anything you don't like about a Valve game on a PC gaming forum, and a hundred fanboys will jump at you.
And any of the low points about Valve/STEAM are automatically turned into positives. I once said, "Well, I don't mind STEAM, but I still like the extras I get when I buy from retail."
Among the tons of replies I received, there was one something along the lines of, "Well, think of all the good Valve is doing for the environment by cutting down the need for paper!"
Another time I questioned the fact that Valve wasn't pricing its games lower despite saving lots of money by eliminating retail, and someone replied, "Well, if you are going to pay full price, would you rather it goes to an brick and mortar store? Or a great company like Valve???" This was the same guy who had been talking about lower prices because of digital downloading.
I was dumbfounded. I actually came to realize that the Valve fanboys were worse than the Nintendo fanboys... which is quite an achievement for them.
I guess these guys see Valve as one of the last heroes of their platform... which is why to them, when Valve poops, it isn't shit... it is chocolate!
I hate to say it, but it is a similar thing with Stardock -- though not nearly as severe.
Stardock comes out with the most self serving statements, and the fanboys keep eating them up since they see Stardock as a champion for their cause.
It reminds me of my university, Brock. They were medium sized, so they'd wear that like a badge of honor. At every instance, Brock Univ. would market the fact that since they were smaller than the bigwigs, they provided a really personal experience....bla bla bla... they talked about it at every instance... it was nauseating... as if they were smaller by choice.
Guess what? At first opportunity, Brock University exploded in terms of growth. Now they are pretty big and obviously never cared for being smaller.
I am sure that as soon as Stardock gets the opportunity, it will grab the chance to become a massive profit earning entity.
Whenever they come out with self congratulatory statements, they always tout at least one characteristic of theirs as positive, when it is anything but, and has nothing to do with anything... yet it has everything to do with them.... and the fanboys eat it up.
For example, that bill of rights stuff had certain points that gamers wouldn't really give a rat's ass about... yet those points were on the list because they suited Stardock. Some of those points actually made me laugh out loud, because they were features of Stardock that made no sense and felt totally out of place on that list.
I believe that Stardock doesn't really give a shit about gamers -- well not as much as they claim to -- and much of their anti DRM hype is basically a marketing strategy. They are basically pretending to be one of us, and I've already started to notice with some features of Impulse, that Stardock's convictions are only as good as they... as a company... need them to be.
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Yea that part just really bewilders me. It really looks like ass, and is quite ancient in every other way... yet reviewers and gamers across the net continue to suck the source engine's cock.
I don't understand it.
I swear I heard some PC GAMER editors claim Episode 2 looked as good as COD4 or Crysis...
You have got to be kidding me.
The game looked like ass. The only things the engine still does exceptionally well at this stage are the character models and character facial animations. Everything else sucks about that engine... yet the valve pole is polished by fanboys every day.
What I also don't understand is all the extreme fanboyistic loyalty, that Valve generates. The fanboys aren't able to hear anything negative about the company... I don't even mean the level of hate Que used to dish out... I just mean normal criticism. You say anything you don't like about a Valve game on a PC gaming forum, and a hundred fanboys will jump at you.
And any of the low points about Valve/STEAM are automatically turned into positives. I once said, "Well, I don't mind STEAM, but I still like the extras I get when I buy from retail."
I like physical manuals and stuff -- but a lot of Valve's own Steam-based games barely come with nothing but a piece of cardboard w/ your hotkeys on them and the Steam activation key.
Among the tons of replies I received, there was one something along the lines of, "Well, think of all the good Valve is doing for the environment by cutting down the need for paper!"
That's a good point, but really -- Valve ain't puttin' crap in the game boxes b/c they would prefer you buy straight from Steam itself.
Another time I questioned the fact that Valve wasn't pricing its games lower despite saving lots of money by eliminating retail, and someone replied, "Well, if you are going to pay full price, would you rather it goes to an brick and mortar store? Or a great company like Valve???" This was the same guy who had been talking about lower prices because of digital downloading.
Wasn't there something about retailers not wanting to stock games on shelves if the same game would be cheaper upon release on digital distribution places like Steam?
I was dumbfounded. I actually came to realize that the Valve fanboys were worse than the Nintendo fanboys... which is quite an achievement for them.
LOL.
I guess these guys see Valve as one of the last heroes of their platform... which is why to them, when Valve poops, it isn't shit... it is chocolate!
I think Valve has excellent production values on their games -- but lately, they ain't been packing much content in their games. Not only that, but it takes forever for them to develop and release a damn game.
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Very, very insightful posts idol and Pug. I concur. Even as a loyal Stardock supporter because I like their general stances on things and think they work hard to put out quality products at decent prices, I do realize that the ideologies only go so far (my fake theme song for Wardell was very much a joke). I've never felt that Valve was a bad developer either, on the other hand, I just don't like some of the stuff that they're pushing and can't always justify paying for games that don't have as much content as I want. I wouldn't really even have much beef with them if it wasn't for how much they get their cocks sucked. That's the crap that pushes me over the edge. Not just because something is popular, but because people spend so much time doting on it that they ignore so much else that's going on, laying the money in one spot instead of the 80 other places that need it and probably deserve it more three times over.
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Edge Online has a post from Gabe Newell talking about L4D (http://www.edge-online.com/blogs/gabe-newell-writes-edge)
Eurogamer's Q&A with Chet Faliszek of Valve (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=312748)
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Sorry, D, I'm putting my foot down. And not just because seeing that much of Gabe Newell spread across the boards makes me a little sick to my stomach.
Anyway, point being: the link is sufficient. Entire article quotes are unnecessary.
EDIT - And you know, I just looked at a bunch of screens for this, and it strikes me as remarkable how bad it looks. Not because it's like this awful looking thing, and I'll bet you a hundred bucks it animates a hell of a lot better than the stills look, but... jeez. This engine hasn't aged well. The textures are ugly, the hands/guns look really weak, and most of the models look quite bad (with exception of the human models, where I think the design helps make up for lacking tech a bit). And again, this may sound like me just harshing for no reason, but it actually surprised me a little. For some reason I had really thought it would look better than this.
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Fair enough, Que.
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It was late when I wrote that. I can't say I am completely convinced that Stardock isn't 100% sincere. Perhaps they are, and yet they say what they must to sell their brand. While I am suspicious of them... well who knows.
There is one company I am quite convinced is 100% for its customers, and not the bottom line -- well not as much --, and that is CD Projekt. Really, those guys are so awesome. To release that "enhanced edition" and then make it a free download as well was just excellent on their part.
Before The Witcher, they spent their time making Polish versions of games like Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Icewind Dale, and NWN. That makes me really happy.
I wouldn't really even have much beef with them if it wasn't for how much they get their cocks sucked.
Ahh I get the hate now. Yea, that's it. While they are good, the PC fans make them out to be gods.
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A common symptom of the wretched disease: fanboyism.
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It was late when I wrote that. I can't say I am completely convinced that Stardock isn't 100% sincere. Perhaps they are, and yet they say what they must to sell their brand. While I am suspicious of them... well who knows.
There is one company I am quite convinced is 100% for its customers, and not the bottom line -- well not as much --, and that is CD Projekt. Really, those guys are so awesome. To release that "enhanced edition" and then make it a free download as well was just excellent on their part.
Before The Witcher, they spent their time making Polish versions of games like Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Icewind Dale, and NWN. That makes me really happy.
Yes, I think CDPR is one of my fav companies out there right now. I really can't wait to see what their next game is that they're gonna announce in 2009, myself.
My guess -- Witcher Expansion or Witcher 2.
Ahh I get the hate now. Yea, that's it. While they are good, the PC fans make them out to be gods.
That's the thing; Valve are NOT Gods, but people treat them like they are such. A lot of their games -- namely in the HL series -- leave so many dangling threads per episode, you just can't help but scratch your head and wonder how much better they would be if the game was more complete in the story department. I mean, it's not like their dialogue and characters suck; I love their characters and dialogue. Yet, people still flock over them like they're the last great PC game designers -- like them and Blizzard are the last great PC game designers -- which they both ain't, there are a good handful of others out there.
Valve sure has done a lot for digital distribution -- and unfortunately, Steam is one of the least intrusive DRM schemes today; which is what I was hoping would NOT happen, since back in the days, an Internet check for a SP game was unheard of until HL2 came out. It basically popularized that gimmick, for better or worse -- for worse, if you ask me. Worst of all, Valve is now accepting 3rd party DRM limits on EA's games on Steam (Crysis: Warhead over STEAM gets five installs) and some others online too have it (5 install limit on STALKER: Clear Sky over STEAM) -- at least Steam tells you of the limits, on the Steam game's site where you go to buy it online.
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Played this at a friend's house... man is it awesome. I wouldn't pay $60 for it, but $40 would be a price I'd be willing to perhaps go for.
Yes the maps are few, but they are well designed, and the "director" -- the dungeon master of the game if you will -- is fantastic at making every play through a unique experience. I really love this.
The engine does show its age, but they haven't done a bad job.
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Haven't played this yet but my bro did just finish CoDWaW and you get a little "Nazi Zombie" bonus at the end! It' basically L4D but in a WW2 Zombified setting!
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Haven't played this yet but my bro did just finish CoDWaW and you get a little "Nazi Zombie" bonus at the end! It' basically L4D but in a WW2 Zombified setting!
Does COD: WAW's Zombie portion have more maps than L4D? :P
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Does COD: WAW's Zombie portion have more maps than L4D? :P
No idea, but I was impressed with that one bonus aspect of the game. I haven't played anything beyond the first chapter but my brother (who loves CoD) enjoyed it so much he went through the whole thing in a couple of sittings; I'd peek in occasionally just to see how it progressed. Overall it's just more CoD WW2.
Is L4D basically a pro-developed Zombie Panic! Source?
Btw, the zombie theme seems to be the big thing this year. Everything's going zombie!
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And yet the ultimate zombie game is still trapped in my head because nobody's willing to fucking pay me for it. Stupid game companies. With idol at my side, the idea could not fail with a competent development team behind it. If only someone with lots of money would realize that.
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And yet the ultimate zombie game is still trapped in my head because nobody's willing to fucking pay me for it. Stupid game companies. With idol at my side, the idea could not fail with a competent development team behind it. If only someone with lots of money would realize that.
I sincerely believe that the two of you can put together a concept for an entertaining zombie game! You can pitch it to publishers and hopefully it'll get picked up.
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I sincerely believe that the two of you can put together a concept for an entertaining zombie game! You can pitch it to publishers and hopefully it'll get picked up.
I agree that Idol and Que would come up with an a kick-ass zombie game.
Hmmm...would the game have slow zombies and fast zombies? Or just one of the two kinds?
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I agree that Idol and Que would come up with an a kick-ass zombie game.
Hmmm...would the game have slow zombies and fast zombies? Or just one of the two kinds?
Baslphemy! Fast Zombies?! Que and Idol would never accept such a ridiculous idea!
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Baslphemy! Fast Zombies?! Que and Idol would never accept such a ridiculous idea!
Yeah, you got a point...They're probably more into the original zombie style.
Though, when it comes to fantasy-fiction, I think anything's possible...fast zombies, slow zombies, any whatever else kind of zombies. :P
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Slow zombies, absolutely. I've detailed my idea for the ultimate top-down zombie shooter (more arcade style) here before, but after reading through the Zombie Survival Guide I got another idea that would, quite literally, be the ultimate zombie game ever made in every capacity. It would need a good dev team as balancing would be a huge chunk of the work, and they'd probably need a lot of experience with military games, but... hot damn, it would be the best game ever, no other game like it. I can't believe how overlooked the possibilities of zombies still go even today where they seem to pop up everywhere. No original ideas, or even logical extrapolations into new, deeper territory. It' s sad, because the potential is huge.
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Dammit, this L4D was $19.99 on Amazon today for PC.
And I don't see that price up anymore for the PC version.
Must've sold out from Amazon.com (directly).
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As tempted as I am to play L4D I'm gonna wait on it. If it's comparable to TF2 or Counter-Strike it'll last, and chances are I'll get a much better deal if I wait. Maybe as part of special package or something.
I can get some zombie satisfaction from ZP:S for now.
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Gabe Newell throws the hammer down on crummy DRM schemes in this article. (http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/12/02/report-valve039s-gabe-newell-disses-drm)
When it comes to DRM, it seems that Valve president Gabe Newell is one of those in the game biz who wears a white hat.
That is to say, he espouses a reasonable approach, one that is not a de facto screwing of game consumers.
In an e-mail to a gamer by the name of Paul Reisinger (posted on the ih8evilstuff LiveJournal page), Newell writes:
Left 4 Dead is developed entirely by Valve. Steam revenue for our games is not shared with third parties. Around the world we have a number of distribution partners to handle retail distribution of our games (i.e. make discs and boxes). EA is one of those partners.
As far as DRM goes, most DRM strategies are just dumb. The goal should be to create greater value for customers through service value (make it easy for me to play my games whenever and wherever I want to), not by decreasing the value of a product (maybe I'll be able to play my game and maybe I won't).
We really really discourage other developers and publishes from using the broken DRM offerings, and in general there is a groundswell to abandon those approaches.
If Gabe really dislikes most DRM's so much, why the hell does he allow on his Steam some 3rd party games to KEEP their proposed Securom Install Number Limits?
Oh, I know -- it's not his company's game (Valve) that developed the game, so all he cares about is making the $$$ off 3rd party games from Steam.
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It's common knowledge that a lot of what Gabe Newell says is just hot air. It's a shame because some of it sounds good but it's worthless.
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It's common knowledge that a lot of what Gabe Newell says is just hot air.
(http://gamereaver.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/gabe1.jpg)
Protip - he isn't that big because he's so full of good ideas.
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Gabe Newell throws the hammer down on crummy DRM schemes in this article. (http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/12/02/report-valve039s-gabe-newell-disses-drm)
If Gabe really dislikes most DRM's so much, why the hell does he allow on his Steam some 3rd party games to KEEP their proposed Securom Install Number Limits?
Oh, I know -- it's not his company's game (Valve) that developed the game, so all he cares about is making the $$$ off 3rd party games from Steam.
Is that a real question? I am pretty sure Impulse will do the same thing. They aren't running a charity here. They need publishers to use their services because the cost of maintaining something like that can't be cheap.
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Is that a real question?
No, it's rhetorical.
I am pretty sure Impulse will do the same thing. They aren't running a charity here. They need publishers to use their services because the cost of maintaining something like that can't be cheap.
Impulse IS doing it now.
Sacred 2 over Impulse STILL has its Securom install limits imposed.
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Im still on the fence about picking this up. I was listening to Gamers with jobs and they had some pretty positive things to say about it, plus you seemed to like what played right Pug? 40$ sounds something I could go on a limb on, 50$... I dont know. I dont play multiplayer like I do anymore so Id probably mess with bots for a while and stop playing. I'd probably go for it if I could play with you guys.
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To be fair I only played a few hours, and I don't know how old it will get. I'll probably be going over this weekend, so I can play for the day online. Let's see.
But what I played was a lot of fun.
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Zero Punctuation (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/459-Left-4-Dead). Not his funniest.
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Zero Punctuation (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/459-Left-4-Dead). Not his funniest.
Agreed.
Not his funniest.
The Mirror's Edge line at the end was funny, though. :)
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So I played more of the game.
Damn it is awesome. It is just sweet... and I've been playing it on Xbox live at a friend's place -- haven't tried it on PC yet, which I can imagine is a lot more fun. The biggest surprise for me is the engine, which just looks a lot nicer. The game has those epic "you are four guys covered by a 100 crazy zombies" moments that really make the whole thing so exciting.
I still can't say what price it is truly worth, but even if you overpay for it, you should at the very least have a fun time.
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I just want to chime in and voice my support of this game. I had no interest in this until some friends of mine bought it for me for my bday. Even then it sat on my desk for a week while i played WoW. i finally decided to give it a shot and havent been able to put it down. I got through the single player in a night and am having a blast with the co-op online. Hands down the BEST co-op shooter i have ever played.
3 of you need to buy this so we can play. It will be good times, I promise
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It certainly is really fun, but I just worry about the longevity of it. I'd be much happier if it was $29.99 although I very well could get $50 worth of entertainment out of it either way.
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PC and X360 gamers can expect some info on some upcoming Left 4 Dead DLC (hopefully) soon. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3172085)
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I am still not nearly sick of it. While its levels are a lot more limited than those of TF2, the whole game is significantly more unpredictable.
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From what I saw of the demo that certainly is true to a point, but in the end all that changes is where and when the zombies come at you. I guess in this game that pretty much changes everything and when you have more than two levels available it creates a far more dynamic and varied experience across the board, but I played the hell out of TF2 before I got bored of it because of the different defense/offense tactics people would use. I'd like to pick this up, but I still don't want to for anything more than the price of TF2, especially since few here seem to play it.
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I saw some screens in the newest issue of PC Gamer that so made me want the game. I really wish the demo was still available. If I knew I could play it online (which I seriously doubt) I might be tempted to pay more. As it is, singleplayer only and not that many maps...Im waiting for a bargain bin.
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I'm waiting for $20 Bargain Bin, too.
Hell, I might be $30 for this one. I dunno.
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Okay, I see some of y'all on Steam bought this.
So, how do y'all like it?
Impressions?
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It was actually an obscenely generous gift. I really couldn't justify the cost on my own, as I've said before, but now that I have it... well, it's hard to say. I haven't tried multiplayer (as in 8v8) yet, and I've only done the first campaign map with Pyro, but that said... this shit is seriously epic. That's the only word for it. I definitely see what the buzz is about now, we had a really good time. I still think the lack of content is going to hurt it, but I've yet to see just how much variety can be gotten from the included maps when you've got the AI director at work. It really is a shame there aren't more levels, because on a pure twitch shooter level it's really quite satisfying. This is a game that absolutely deserves an SDK and lots of custom community maps. It could positively thrive on them.
Either way, I'm definitely looking forward to playing more. I'll probably go through the campaign on my own, again with Pyro, and then maybe a third time once I ship Idol the backup files for it so he can get his own copy going (4GB download + dialup = !#$&). Idol has also just informed me that they're already working on new maps and there *will* be an SDK, so that's extremely positive. My dislike of Steam and also of the Source engine are in no way budged by this. The game definitely looks pretty dated (though don't get me wrong, it doesn't look bad -- the gore is exquisite), the load times are horrendous, and Steam continues to give me odd little problems. But that's no reflection on the game itself, which at this point seems to have justified itself much better than I'd thought it would. I daresay that I could even become an honest-to-goodness fan by the time I'm through.
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Well DLC is apparently around the corner. The game is really entertaining on my friend's Xbox Live, but I just can't quite justify the cost of buying it on the PC yet. But like I said earlier, it is one of those overpriced things that even when you overspend on, you don't feel too bad because it is so much fun, and it isn't a massively expensive purchase on the whole, either.
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Dude id rock that shit with you Que... add me to your friends list! you know my name
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Well DLC is apparently around the corner.
"Soon" or "around the corner" for Valve = 6 months. :P
All we really know is the announcement for what the DLC is will be likely very soon -- very soon for Valve probably means "maybe soon." :P
The game is really entertaining on my friend's Xbox Live, but I just can't quite justify the cost of buying it on the PC yet. But like I said earlier, it is one of those overpriced things that even when you overspend on, you don't feel too bad because it is so much fun, and it isn't a massively expensive purchase on the whole, either.
I can't justify it, either...not until a good amount of DLC gets released, a L4D SDK comes out, and/or the price drops.
Only way I can justify this is...well, if someone "gifts" me the game. I can throw that dream out the window. :P
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Added, keebs. Dude, why weren't you in the OWnet group to begin with? I thought we posted all that stuff. Anyway, you have an invite. If a few more people get L4D, we could even get some versus multi happening.
As of now we have enough for a full survivor team for coop, anyway. You, me, Pyro, and Idol. We have no confirmation whether Idol can play consistently with his connection, but I'm hopeful. I've seen reports of dialup guys playing the game and pissing off LPBs, so hopefully we can get it going without too much problem. Time will tell.
So further update: I actually found the single player quite fun. I don't know what's up with all these people talking about how if you aren't playing with other people it's totally worthless. I played through the first episode (they call them maps... but it's really a series of 5 maps, so...?), and I had just as much fun as when I played with Pyro. I can even see playing with other players more annoying because they won't do what you want them to and will likely get you killed more often and avoid helping you out in favor of trying to play the hero. The bots can't seem to pick up explosives, which is a drawback, but that seems to be the only real limitation aside from the fact that you can't get them to lead and they won't use stationary guns, making that your job in all respects. But they're pretty good with pathing and following you 85%-90% of the time and are never far off even if a little behind, and they're very conscientious about healing you, healing each other, sharing supplies, and reviving teammates. Not as good as human players no doubt, but there's absolutely no reason you can't play the game with them. Multi is obviously where the meat of this game will lie since it's so blisteringly short, but if it gets cheap later and has DLC, I imagine you could get on with the SP well enough. It's not like you'll just play it once. I had as much fun on my 2nd run as I did on my first. So that's about 3 hours total fiddling, and I haven't even seen the other episodes yet.
Anyway... my outlook gets more positive as I go. Hopefully the trend continues!
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I played a game with a guy I know from WoW and we had a lot of fun. Then he invited a friend who was retarded. The guy kept shooting us instead of the zombies, and he couldn't stay alive. He was constantly running off the sides of rooftops and dying. I never want to play with that guy again.
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W7RE, what's your Steam handle? You should join the group so that we seem less illegitimate.
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W7RE, but... I have L4D for Xbox 360.
/ducks
EDIT: Actually my account name is W7RE, I've got it set to use Wyre in games since no one knows how to pronounce W7RE.
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Fuck! So now I pretty much have to buy it don't I? Damn.
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Yea I have to share with what Que says is that its alot of fucking fun. The maps are actually much longer than I thought they'd be. I didnt know a map comprised of 4 or 5 areas you progressed through so Im pretty satisfied in whats being offered here.
Right now we seemed to be cruising through on Normal difficulty. We got a little beat up on the first area since we were getting used to fighting the special infected types but now weve gotten a better handle on it. I think we'll put it up another notch the next time we play.
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Fun with sound mods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMqPG4S80bo).
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Also, I've discovered tons of vids on YouTube where people have basically extracted CS maps straight up and brought them into L4D without any alterations, and the AI director basically turns the maps into L4D material without any real work. You have to spawn weapons and health, but the AI director spawns in zombies and shit like it was the real deal. This bodes amazingly well for the community. The zombies even climb the architecture and stuff to some degree, no scripts or anything. A little editing and a bunch of people are going to be able to make some nice little user-episodes. That's exciting.
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I remember seeing a story when the demo was out or shortly thereafter where someone somehow imported either some TF2 or HL maps. I imagine that this and what you're talking about are both very good signs.
Anyways, I was pretty much sold on the demo save the price and the fact that none of you guys play. None of my friends really play PC games, and while it was fun to play with total strangers, it just wouldn't be the same. Now that you're all over it I guess I'm going to have to hop on board...sadly, probably not until I get paid again since I just dropped a lot of cash on gaming related items and haven't worked in a few weeks.
Edit: and tuition...fuck you tuition.
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Yeah tuition sucks but the fact that this game isn't on the PS3 sucks even more. Get your shit together, people.
Also, zombie sex? Yes? No? These are the sorts of conversations that you are missing out on by not logging onto IRC.
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PC is the definitive platform to play this game. I dont think you even need that powerful of a machine to play it. If you can run HL2 then you should be able to play this, its not that graphically intensive.
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DONT FUCK WITH WITCHES. HOLY SHIT.
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Now, for your entertainment, 15 minutes of Pyro and Que L4D voice chat (http://user.mc.net/~pbsmith/files/L4Dp1.mp4) from last night. I just removed some keyboard noises and sections of "dead air".
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It's pretty hilarious. I think "oh shit!" is the most commonly-uttererd phrase. It's a shame there isn't some of the game noise in there too... because you can't quite get the sense of how frantic it is. But you'll hear us panic a few times, which gives an indication.
EDIT - It starts off a bit slow, but it's pretty funny after you get about a third of the way in. It's particularly great toward the end when we hit a tank.
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Dammit, seems like everybody on here got this game but me...
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Dammit, seems like everybody on here got this game but me...
And me...
I nearly picked it up today but I still can't be inclined to spend over $40 for it.
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And me...
I nearly picked it up today but I still can't be inclined to spend over $40 for it.
Same here -- I just don't wanna spend $40 for this, with a lack of maps currently available here...
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Que has set up a dedicated server for L4D, and we need people to test it. Heres infos:
It's up at 76.126.116.56:7778. Please help us test it by going on and trying it out! It's currently set to co-op play. Try it, see how your ping is, etc. Report back on the forums!
So there you go. I believe its set to only let people that are part of the Overwritten.net group can join, so if you need an invite let me know.
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Dammit, some retailer needs to drop the price -- Amazon, Gogamer, Best Buy, Circuit City -- hell, somebody!
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I think I might pick it up after I get paid next. Have you guys looked at the four pack they sell? I don't know what the price is, but if you split it between 4 people it must work out to be cheaper unless it's completely pointless.
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Have you guys looked at the four pack they sell? I don't know what the price is, but if you split it between 4 people it must work out to be cheaper unless it's completely pointless.
It's $150 right now fir the Four Pack.
L4D goes for $50 by itself, so basically with the 4 Pack it's more like you buy 3 copies and get one free.
During the crazy sale, it was $138 or so.
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Server seems to work well. Pyro and I went through the first two campaigns tonight on Hard. Pyro doesn't get excellent pings to it, but it's certainly playable without much noticeable lag (generally he was getting about 200ms). Otherwise there were no problems, and it has the added benefit of not fucking up game speed like happens often with locally hosted games (this is a known bug, apparently -- I noticed it the other night when we played, and had begun to wonder if multiplayer was simply programmed to be faster). Plus it's a server we control that doesn't run stupid mods. Already it seems a lot of dumb shit is cropping up, and I really hope this doesn't turn into what TRIBES was before it died, with every server running some whacked out shit that wasn't fun or felt cheap.
Anyway, positive thus far. I even got placeholder HTML up for a server banner and MOTD hosted on OWnet, so it's got our name stamped on it when it loads. I don't know why, but that makes me happy.
EDIT - Also, server is going down for the night. I don't think anyone yet cares, but I'll have it back up at some point tomorrow. Need to do some system maintenance. And I should say it's going down for the morning, really, and I'll have it back up later today. It'll be almost 4 by the time I get to bed...
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L4D PC is $40 at Best Buy this week, if anyone is still lookin' for this L4D PC on disc...
So does Amazon.com with Free Saver Shipping (with it being over $25 and all).
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Server seems to work well. Pyro and I went through the first two campaigns tonight on Hard. Pyro doesn't get excellent pings to it, but it's certainly playable without much noticeable lag (generally he was getting about 200ms). Otherwise there were no problems, and it has the added benefit of not fucking up game speed like happens often with locally hosted games (this is a known bug, apparently -- I noticed it the other night when we played, and had begun to wonder if multiplayer was simply programmed to be faster). Plus it's a server we control that doesn't run stupid mods. Already it seems a lot of dumb shit is cropping up, and I really hope this doesn't turn into what TRIBES was before it died, with every server running some whacked out shit that wasn't fun or felt cheap.
Anyway, positive thus far. I even got placeholder HTML up for a server banner and MOTD hosted on OWnet, so it's got our name stamped on it when it loads. I don't know why, but that makes me happy.
EDIT - Also, server is going down for the night. I don't think anyone yet cares, but I'll have it back up at some point tomorrow. Need to do some system maintenance. And I should say it's going down for the morning, really, and I'll have it back up later today. It'll be almost 4 by the time I get to bed...
Que, in the server list, does the game itself note if a server in L4D is entirely running a mod or running L4D Clean? Or would those running the server have to mention that in the server name themselves?
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Some list things in the title, but I'm actually having trouble with the server browser. It never seems to update when I go into a server listing to check on it. Always says the server isn't responding. I'm mostly going on some comments I've heard from the community and a few server titles I've seen. It probably isn't as bad as some of them were making it out to be... looking this morning most of the servers look to still be stock. Plus I think some people are probably misconstruing the bug that happens when you host locally and the game speed changes as a "fast mod".
It just makes me nervous when I see mods pop up and gain momentum so early on. Don't fix what ain't broke, or at least don't bother fixing it until the old stuff has gotten the chance to go stale.
EDIT - Okay, the server is back up! 76.126.116.56:7778 for L4D co-op, and 76.126.116.56:7777 for Teamspeak!
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I guess many are probably bored w/ the lack of maps, so they decided to mod it out to try and keep it fresh for them. Hell, I don't know.
Really, though -- add some freakin' maps, Valve! That's the best way to keep the game fresh -- and to keep people from over-modding the stock maps.
Oh, a SDK would be nice, too -- that would really keep this game going, more than anything.
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I love this game, but again, just like with HL2, I really wish Valve would stop pretending like it has a fucking story. They go on and on about the story it tells and how important story is to them and blah blah blah... shut the fuck up! This game has no story. Yes, it has a nice setting and some good background, and even some decent character personalities, but IT HAS NO STORY. IT HAS NOTHING EVEN RESEMBLING A STORY. It barely even has a coherent progression. Oh, you rode off in a boat at the end of the 2nd campaign, and then for some reason at the start of the third you're in some kind of... greenhouse? And you didn't even just walk into the greenhouse, you're in a boxed corner of it with no door surrounded on the other side by zombies.
If I have to hear about this game's "great story" one more time I'm going to feed Gabe Newell to a tribe of starving natives in Africa somewhere.
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I still havent played with ya guys! i dont have to play any WoW tomorrow so anyone wanna kill some zombies?
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Yea, I agree. I do think it does a good job at keeping it simple though, like it doesnt evolve into something stupid like Resident Evil or something. I also think the characters here are much better done than in even Half Life, I mean their little moments of dialogue and stuff can be rather funny, also the intro cinematic still kicks ass and I cant wait to see more of it, not because theres a story like you said just because its so damn entertaining.
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Yea, I'm not sure how they could say this game has any sort of story to it. Really there's 4 different scenarios in the game. Each one has like 4 maps, and involves you moving from area to area and finally reaching safety at the end. All 4 scenarios are completely cut off from eachother and play out as if the others never happen. They came up with an idea to have you fight to a rescue point and be done, then they came up with 3 other locales for you to do it in (the 3 other scenarios).
Yea, it's short, but it ends up being very "pick up and play", which is great for multiplayer coop. Ever tried to run through a game on coop before? It takes a while, and you have to keep coming back to it when you both have time. In L4D you just jump into zombie land for an hour or two and have some fun. It also means if Valve would put forth the effort, it would be ridiculously easy to expand the game via DLC. Just add more scenarios.
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Well, thankfully, that seems to be their idea. And it's 5 maps, not 4. The game has a total of 20 maps, 5 for each campaign/episode/whatever you want to call it.
But I agree with Pyro. Despite my annoyance with how often they refer to story, they did a remarkable job making the characters interesting and believable. I mean, these are just dudes you control in an FPS... personality wasn't *really* that necessary, but it really adds to the replayability because of how their dynamic and random conversations work. It keeps things entertaining and personable sometimes even when action isn't going on, and it does make each character a hell of a lot more distinct.
And like he says, I'm glad there isn't a story. The game is simple but I think that's to its advantage. You wouldn't want it complex, it would make things get stale. As it is, I'm not tired of replaying these same scenarios over and over again. They're just so fun! So I don't really need or want some big story... I just wish they'd stop talking about how much effort they put into something that isn't there.
Valve has this problem of thinking they know more than they do. They think they're the biggest brains in digital distribution, when as far as I'm concerned they have the worst and most buggy platform. They think they know about setting scenes and telling contextual stories, but they haven't even covered a fifteenth of the ground that Bioshock did in that regard. Or even the Metroid Prime games. And if people would stop sucking their dicks and telling them how perfect Steam is and that Half-life 2 has the best story ever, maybe they'd actually learn what they need to do to improve.
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Not to derail this thread too much, but you hit the nail on the head with the penis stroking on Valve's storytelling. Everything else, I can take and can accept as a matter of opinion. But "Valve tells a brilliant story" is a bit too much.
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I love this game, but again, just like with HL2, I really wish Valve would stop pretending like it has a fucking story. They go on and on about the story it tells and how important story is to them and blah blah blah... shut the fuck up! This game has no story. Yes, it has a nice setting and some good background, and even some decent character personalities, but IT HAS NO STORY. IT HAS NOTHING EVEN RESEMBLING A STORY. It barely even has a coherent progression. Oh, you rode off in a boat at the end of the 2nd campaign, and then for some reason at the start of the third you're in some kind of... greenhouse? And you didn't even just walk into the greenhouse, you're in a boxed corner of it with no door surrounded on the other side by zombies.
If I have to hear about this game's "great story" one more time I'm going to feed Gabe Newell to a tribe of starving natives in Africa somewhere.
OK how are you guys adding servers and seeing pings? I find the multiplayer matchmaking options to be extremely thin. Is there is some option of changing them to an advanced view? I can't see a list of servers etc, and have to rely on STEAM to do an automatch. Even when I join one, I see pings in shades of color, rather than numbers. WTF? It is like I am on Xbox Live.
edit:
OK looks like I am not taking crazy pills:
http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=9&topic=5064&page=0
edit 2:
OK so it isn't too hard to work out. The strange thing is that while I can easily find servers with pings of around 100, matchmaking seems to find the worst latency servers. Anyway I will be looking up the OW server next.
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Not to derail this thread too much, but you hit the nail on the head with the penis stroking on Valve's storytelling. Everything else, I can take and can accept as a matter of opinion. But "Valve tells a brilliant story" is a bit too much.
Valve has always been about more style than actual substance.
Valve is excellent, I think, at creating characters and dialogue. I find myself finding ways to often relate to them and/or caring about the characters -- unlike many other games I've played. And yes, they often picking the right voice-actors to supply those roles, too. I mean, look at "Benson" as Eli Vance, for example -- perfect casting there.
Usually, they carve out a pretty good plot itself. Not the plot-depth related stuff, but the premise is usually really good. But, they just don't finish stories. Everything they do seems episodic in nature, despite its length -- or lack thereof length, in some cases. I mean, look at the endings to most of their games -- i.e. HL 1, HL 2, HL2 Episodes, Portal; does every single thread in each of those actually get resolved?
Usually, NO -- there's always at the very least one thread still left dangling. And usually, they leave it hanging flat out as the very last beat, in front of your very own face, too -- some love that it amps them up for a sequel and/or another installment, while some probably are (like myself saying "complete the story here", while some probably are torn b/t both (on one hand, the ending's great b/c its ingenious on one hand, but another hand it just doesn't finish the story) . I think you'll find, most people lean towards the last two -- being torn b/t both or pissed off that the game ended with not too much resolved.
Now, I really can't speak for L4D yet, of course....
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(http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg)
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Hey, that's close to one of Morte's line that he says when The Nameless One dies...
"Talk about beating a dead horse."
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(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2685/davatar3nu2.jpg)
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Took you long enuff to FINALLY do something with my current pic.
About damn time.
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What the fuck are you holding in your pic anyway? It might make the look on your face make sense to know what's in your hand.
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Fallout 3 Collector's Edition PC (lunchbox-sized game case)
Took that pic day 1 of its release; the day I bought it.
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Anybody wants to play, I plan to be on later tonight. I'm itching to try expert, which I'll probably fiddle with if I'm alone just to see how horrible I am and how hard it is... but if some of you other dudes want to come play, please do!
For ease of reference: 76.126.116.56:7778 is the server, and the same at port 7777 is for Teamspeak (and I always include that, though voice chat is by no means a requirement to play... I can't use it late at night, and the game has lots of options for those without voice chat).
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can you send me a PM when you are ready? thanks!
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Argh... Im dying to play some more, especially to see how expert is, but Im stuck at work. Well Im off thursday, I hope Idol even gets the disk by then.
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Lemme know when you get home, Pyro. If it's early enough we might be able to at least get a couple of maps in.
I'll PM you in a bit, keebs.
EDIT - Keebs and I had fun. We tried a couple maps on Expert and got mauled like bitches, mostly because friendly fire becomes INSTADEATH on Expert. Watch the errant shotgun fire. Your friend's face depends on it. Then we tried some versus mode with some friends of his, and we again got mauled. They were really good, and the random internet people who joined our team sucked ass. Oh well. It was fun anyhow.
Also, Zero Punctuation review (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/459-Left-4-Dead)! It's amusing, and actually much more positive than I'd thought it might be.
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Noticed an interesting achievement, its at the bottom of the list, Outbreak. It says catch a rare strain of virus and spread it to someone else. From what I looked up, it started from some of the Valve employees playing and they spread it by playing as the Boomer by vomiting on people, then they do the same and so on... I guess they are seeing how many play online with random people to those that strictly play with their friends.
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Also, Zero Punctuation review (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/459-Left-4-Dead)! It's amusing, and actually much more positive than I'd thought it might be.
Actually, for a while, I've been thinking Yahtzee is on Valve's payroll. :P
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Im off tomorrow night so Ill be up to play some if you are Que.
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Fuck yeah. Idol and D got the game, too. Or I should say Idol's crappy DVD from me finally came in the mail, heh. Seems he can play online at least to some degree. We're screwing with it now.
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Oh awesome! Let me know how it goes.
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Well it....works as well as can be expected. I can play, but when the shit hits the fan I lag so much that I'm not terribly useful. But its still pretty damn fun.
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Idol, what ping are you getting on Que's server? For some reason I am near 350 on that... :(
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The connections around L4D in general seem terrible. Around 200ms seems to be average most anywhere you go, and 90% of the people I've played with on random servers have had "orange" connections. I don't think I've run across a single other green connection (obviously I ping very well to our server since I'm the one running it). Kind of frustrating. It seems a lot of the netcode was borked in this game, and even getting a server to work properly is an exercise in frustration. If your config is too big, your server lags out and it takes too long to process the config so everyone gets dropped (or refuses connections for a while when taking too long to wake up from hibernation). This was happening on the OWnet server even though the config was minuscule, so now what I have up is bare-bones as all hell. Plus the group stuff doesn't work properly, as you'll note that the server never shows up in the main menu for OWnet Steam group members the way it's supposed to.
As much as I love this game (and I really do), it reaffirms my belief that ultimately, Valve is a shitty developer, at least at certain times with certain elements. They do indeed have great ideas, a lot of artistry, and some talented people on their team, but their execution of those ideas leaves a whole fucking lot to be desired. You might even equate it to Bethesda, who make fabulous but buggy games. Except Valve, for my personal preference, generally doesn't make games compelling enough to deal with the bullshit. Aside from L4D, which even with the server shit and incomplete versus mapset even after 3+ years of development (what the fuck were they doing all that time?), is still an obscenely awesome game that's tons of fun and worth tinkering with to get working.
But don't despair! There's still time for them to get their own act together now that issues are being reported (though I know little about their track record with this because I don't play many of their other games), and I'm trying to dig up more information that may help me improve things on my end. The game still seems to be quite playable at 200ms, which seems to be the average connection speed to the server thus far.
As for idol, he was getting around 500ms last night. That jumped to 1,000ms+ during horde rushes, haha.
And Pug, when were you on? The server didn't report any activity after I finished my latest test run last night.
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Plus the group stuff doesn't work properly, as you'll note that the server never shows up in the main menu for OWnet Steam group members the way it's supposed to.
Last night when I went to play some SP after you made the cfg changes, I noticed it popped up on that menu.
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I didn't log in. I just saw it on the server browser at 350+ ping. Heck, I might upgrade to a 2mbps connection for a month to play with you guys. It is $60 here for a 1mbps and 120 for 2mbps... but I might just do it for a month.
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I didn't log in. I just saw it on the server browser at 350+ ping. Heck, I might upgrade to a 2mbps connection for a month to play with you guys. It is $60 here for a 1mbps and 120 for 2mbps... but I might just do it for a month.
That's roughly how much it costs here. Right now my sis and I chipping in to pay for the 2MB connection. Frickin' rip-off though. I was getting a 5MB line for $40 CDN in London Ontario!
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Still catching up in this part of the world.
Though on the other hand, cell phone rates are hella cheaper here eh? :P
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Still catching up in this part of the world.
Though on the other hand, cell phone rates are hella cheaper here eh? :P
Man, we've definitely got the good of that stick! I was shocked when I found out that in Canada you pay for receiving calls, caller ID and unlimited incoming are like "special services" with additional fees, wtf! That weirded me out.
Even with a 2MB connection I have a lot of trouble finding decent servers for anything. To play online I usually have to start a server and hope people hop in.
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All I have to say is that despite the lack of content/maps, L4D rocks and I still cannot put the damn thing down...
That is all. Must be a zombie to this game...must go play...
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Is Steam down?
Can't seem to sign online onto Steam to play with other people.
Offline mode works fine, though.
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yeah, try open your friends list. Says down for maintenance.
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yeah, try open your friends list. Says down for maintenance.
Ah, thanks.
Son of a gun!
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Lifesteak spray! (http://user.mc.net/~pbsmith/files/Lifesteakspray.zip)
(http://user.mc.net/~pbsmith/files/lifesteakspray2.jpg)
Ok, this screen was taken in CS:S since I made the spray before I had L4D. But it totally works in L4D, so have at it!
Unzip to your Steam\steamapps\common\left 4 dead\left4dead\materials\vgui\logos\custom folder, then select it from the menus in game.
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So, I ended up getting an XBox live 12 month membership, mainly for the netflix thing, and to play Gears online. But I also ended up getting L4D for the 360 as well. Kind of an impulse buy. I'm thinking now that maybe I should take it back, and get it for PC. It's weird. I almost never get FPS games for consoles. I don't like the controls. Eh, I dunno. I'll think about it a little more.
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Yes, you should take it back and get it for PC. I can't think of a single reason to get this on a console. Not one.
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Dude, return it now. I played the hell out of this on Xbox Live on a friend's 360, and then someone was brilliant enough to gift me the PC version. I have to tell you, the PC version is MOST DEFINITELY better. I'd just get it for the visuals alone. The game looks far sexier on PC.
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So...I think I'm going to pick this up later today. I imagine my life is about to fall apart.
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No no. Your life is about to become complete.
Okay, that's giving it way too much credit. But seriously, if you have as much fun with it as I have, which hasn't really even been serious play, you'll get your money's worth. I've given it like 30-something hours now. I honestly still find it baffling that I could enjoy playing through it, but I still enjoy going through the campaigns as a survivor at this point, and I really haven't even touched versus mode that much, so there's still value to be had.
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I think I'm gonna pick this up too.
Just watched the GameTrailers review and now I'm psyched for zombie-blasting coop.
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Awww jeah, its catching on now.
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I just think it's quite simple with Left 4 Dead -- people like zombies, whether being a zombie or fighting against them.
I dunno how that can get boring, even with the same few maps. :P
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Well actually there are more like 20 maps. Only the scenarios are limited, but each has multiple maps.
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Well actually there are more like 20 maps. Only the scenarios are limited, but each has multiple maps.
Very true.
I still want to see more scenarios, so I'm lookin' forward to DLC and what people plan to do with the Source SDK for L4D.
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You know I was listening to the commentary on how at first they were designing the levels to be open areas and you had to find your way to the rescue area. The problem that arose was players tended to be overwelmed quickly and once they learned where the rescue area was they would take the same path to it over and over. But then I thought, why couldnt they design it to have multiple rescue areas and make it randomized. I wouldnt care how easily overwhelmed the zombies could be, that would make the rescue that much more thrilling and accomplishing.
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I do like having set levels and whatnot, but having another separate game-mode where it randomized the start and exit areas -- ooh, that'd be interesting.
Why not? The AI director lakes to randomize where enemies get placed. :P
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That's a pretty awesome idea. I imagine that would be somewhat difficult to mod in, but man, that would be an awesome mod.
Also, I'm mad. I thought I beat the first campaign on Expert today, but it turns out the server reset to Advanced at some point (that or the difficulty never switched properly to begin with and I didn't notice). I was very sad.
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I'm kind of sad to see they're still using the same online 'browsing' system, which is to say none at all. I don't know if it has something to do with it being late at night or what, but I have a really high ping on every game I've tried. Like unplayable connection problems. Seeing as I can't see what game I'm connecting to, it's hard to say if it's something on my end, or there just aren't any servers on this side of the world available.
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I'm kind of sad to see they're still using the same online 'browsing' system, which is to say none at all. I don't know if it has something to do with it being late at night or what, but I have a really high ping on every game I've tried. Like unplayable connection problems. Seeing as I can't see what game I'm connecting to, it's hard to say if it's something on my end, or there just aren't any servers on this side of the world available.
Yea that matchmaking pissed me off as well. But just activate console through the options, press "~" for the console drop down, and enter "openserverbrowser" to have the standard Valve server browser popup. From there you can just easily sort servers by ping.
I can't believe Valve didn't make that a standard thing for L4D PC. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to use a standard server browser.
I do like having set levels and whatnot, but having another separate game-mode where it randomized the start and exit areas -- ooh, that'd be interesting.
Why not? The AI director lakes to randomize where enemies get placed. :P
Add some more depth, and you could have a Diablo-esque action RPG. A Hellgate:London if you will, that actually didn't suck.
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The server stuff in this game sucks ass, period. It's totally borked. Connections are often terrible if you leave the thing to its own devices, the matchmaking sucks, and trying to run a server is an exercise in frustration due to bugs and stupid behavior. These are the big problems with the game.
But if you use the server browser and play with buddies, things are much alleviated. Now that the OWnet server is running without issue that should help, at least when others are around to play with. How do you ping to that? I know it's a bit variable. But it seems like one can deal with a ping of 200ms or so without it being too noticeable. The game is a little more forgiving about it than some, and I think it might have some kind of lag compensation in place...? Not sure on that one.
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I love this game, but again, just like with HL2, I really wish Valve would stop pretending like it has a fucking story. They go on and on about the story it tells and how important story is to them and blah blah blah... shut the fuck up! This game has no story. Yes, it has a nice setting and some good background, and even some decent character personalities, but IT HAS NO STORY. IT HAS NOTHING EVEN RESEMBLING A STORY. It barely even has a coherent progression. Oh, you rode off in a boat at the end of the 2nd campaign, and then for some reason at the start of the third you're in some kind of... greenhouse? And you didn't even just walk into the greenhouse, you're in a boxed corner of it with no door surrounded on the other side by zombies.
Yeah, there's no real connection b/t the scenario -- they're all separate tales from each other. I would really like to see somehow, all these scenarios get some sort of map(s) and/or scenario(s) in-between them that connects all of these events/scenarios into one huge epic storyline.
Despite my annoyance with how often they refer to story, they did a remarkable job making the characters interesting and believable. I mean, these are just dudes you control in an FPS... personality wasn't *really* that necessary, but it really adds to the replayability because of how their dynamic and random conversations work. It keeps things entertaining and personable sometimes even when action isn't going on, and it does make each character a hell of a lot more distinct.
The character interaction is great. Every time I play each scenario, you seem to learn a little tiny bit more background and info about each character and their personality, if nothing's really happening on-screen. Yeah, the banter between the characters is really good.
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The server stuff in this game sucks ass, period. It's totally borked. Connections are often terrible if you leave the thing to its own devices, the matchmaking sucks, and trying to run a server is an exercise in frustration due to bugs and stupid behavior. These are the big problems with the game.
But if you use the server browser and play with buddies, things are much alleviated. Now that the OWnet server is running without issue that should help, at least when others are around to play with. How do you ping to that? I know it's a bit variable. But it seems like one can deal with a ping of 200ms or so without it being too noticeable. The game is a little more forgiving about it than some, and I think it might have some kind of lag compensation in place...? Not sure on that one.
I pinged to that fine. I think it was between 90-150 or something which is great. I take it it's at your place?
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Yeah, it's here. Nothing fancy, I don't even have a dedicated box or anything, but it doesn't really need one.
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L4D might get patched this week to ONLY fix some issues on the PC version.
Yes, DLC will be coming sometime later after this patch, in the future -- for X360 and PC still at the same time. (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784064)
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Okay, so I haven't been able to sign into STEAM for the last two days. I get a 'could not connect to STEAM network' error. Please tell me they're having server problems, because I've been using STEAM pretty consistently for over a year and haven't run into this at all.
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All's well on my end, for once. I've been logged on for days and the server has been up for like a week or something.
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Steam just got an update, and the L4D update went live. They are probably getting hammered.
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Hopefully. I don't see what it would be on my end since nothing has changed since the last time I was in, but last night I couldn't get in. Router and firewall settings the same, blah blah blah. I don't feel like figuring out if all of a sudden my isp and STEAM don't work together so well or something. At first I thought i might be putting in the wrong password, since it asked for it the first time this happened, but I changed it alright and still no go.
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Steam just doesn't work properly. The sooner you accept this, the easier things will be.
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I tried to log into STEAM once and it killed my dog. True story.
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It works now. I don't have a dog but my cat's still alive, so that's cool.
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Careful with 'em STEAM jokes. I smell a MyD close by... you do not want to startle a MyD with STEAM jokes.
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So, like, are other people complaining about this horrible lobby system or have they tricked themselves into thinking it's great? I mean, it's alright as an option, but they really should have a server browser available by default without having to go into the console to bring it up.
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Look back in this thread to reply#163.
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Heh yea I guess it does kinda suck, but I never have to worry about it because this is a game I wouldnt want to play with random people, just friends only.
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PC Version got their patch today. So, get on Steam and update it, if you got it already...
X360 version owners, you're gonna have to wait a few weeks for your patch over XBL. (http://store.steampowered.com/news/2162/)
Left 4 Dead Update Released
January 14, 2009, 5:11 pm - Jason Ruymen - Product Update
Left 4 Dead has been updated with a host of fixes, tweaks and new features, including enhancements to Versus mode for improved competitive play. The full change list is below. For PC users the update will be applied automatically via Steam. Meanwhile, the update will be made available to Xbox 360 players in the coming weeks.
General
* Fixed Survivors being able to climb surfaces marked for versus infected only
* Fixed a class of SurvivorBot bugs dealing with rescuing downed players
* Players can no longer grab ladders while flying through the air after a Tank punch
* Shooting near a car with an alarm that has already fired the alarm will no longer make chirping noises
* Improved loading time
* Fixed mini-gun physics exploit
* Fixed propane tanks (and other physics objects) causing players to fall through elevators
* Fixed rare achievement bug issues
* Fixed several map exploits
* Fixed various match making issues
* Fixed NAT traversal issues
Versus Changes
* Added HUD elements to show status of other infected players
* Changed color of infected player name in chat to red
* Fixed exploit where players could spawn infected bots
* Fixed instance where a Survivor changing to the infected team would be attacked by infected bots
* Normalized special infected melee damage
* Made the following client commands cheat protected: "Kill" and "explode"
* Fixed exploit where infected players could run away and teleport back to gain health
* Players can only change teams once per map
* Players can't change teams while other players are still loading
* Tank spawns at the same % through the map for both teams in versus mode
* Made the Tank and Witch spawn directly on the escape route
* Increased chance of getting the Tank or Witch
* Fixed team swap issue
Hunter
* Easier to pounce a Survivor who is meleeing
* Increased Minimum damage a Hunter pounce does
Smoker
* Fixed Smoker tongue tolerance
* Smoker now has to be killed or the tongue destroyed for the tongue to break
* Survivors cannot bash someone off the tongue until the Survivor being pulled is paralyzed or hanging
* Tongue attacks that fail to paralyze or hang a Survivor will use the shorter ability delay timer
* Fixed cases where the ability timer was not using the correct time
* Fixed case where you could point at a Survivor but not register a tongue hit
* Fixed Smoker tongue not targeting and landing properly through PZ ghosts
* Smoker tongue does damage every second while dragging paralyzed Survivors
Tank
* Bashable objects now appear with a red glow
* Tanks hitting a car with an alarm disables the alarm permanently
* Tank frustration timer is only reset by hitting Survivors with rocks or fists
* Reduced autoshotgun damage against Tanks
Witch
* Witch spawns at the same % through the map for both teams
* Avoids spawning within a certain % of the tank
* Fixed an exploit where the Witch could be woken up and tricked into attacking Survivors
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I wish L4D was cross-platform.
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I wish L4D was cross-platform.
Ooooh, that'd be REALLY interesting...
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Seem like good changes in the patch there. My only wonder is if the Infected stuff changes universally or just in versus? I'd not prefer to have the two be different from each other.
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* Players can no longer grab ladders while flying through the air after a Tank punch
awwww...
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Yeah, I thought that was stupid. How often does that even happen? And why get rid of it? That's fucking epic if you can somehow do that or get lucky enough to be punched into a ladder.
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That's fucking epic if you can somehow do that or get lucky enough to be punched into a ladder.
Exactly. Someone send a letter to Valve. I am too lazy.
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Exactly. Someone send a letter to Valve. I am too lazy.
You love Valve.
Go do it.
NOW.
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*slaps D*
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Yeah but that was one of D's funnier moments. You can't slap him for that.
I got your back, D. This Valve fanboy can go suck it.
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Aren't you late for your goat pr0n shoot?
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*slaps D*
*slaps Pug with a Valve-labeled bat*
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Leave it to D to carry one of those.
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Leave it to D to carry one of those.
With your name written on it.
And a big-ass Steam symbol.
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ummm... so I've played more L4D, and it is very close to being my ideal zombie game, at least in terms of mechanics and atmosphere. It shoots for realism, and is pretty much what I love about it.
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L4D is as great as it gets, for zombie shooters.
I really can't wait to see a L4D supported SDK; mods; and new official and unofficial maps come its way. If Valve can bring that, I can see myself taking a long while to decide to uninstall L4D.
Most games, once I finish them, they'd be lucky to be remain on my HD.
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Most games, once I finish them, they'd be lucky to be remain on my HD.
Yeah right! You still have stuff installed since 1999! :P
I'm still looking for L4D here but all the stores don't have it since they're trying to sell off the X360 version.
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Just get the downloadable version. Since you're really only licensing Steam games in the first place and are entirely beholden to the program whether you have a hard copy or not, I don't see as it makes a whole lot of difference. Unless you like having boxes, like I do, heh.
I got the game working again. Required a full reinstallation of everything, but it's up and going. I'll be reactivating the server in about 5 minutes (had to take it down because uninstallation required removal of server tools as well).
EDIT - It's up! Survive away.
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I generally prefer to have the box. L4D may be the one exception. It costs $50 to buy it on Steam and Valve have a special offer of 4-pack for $150 (like a buy 3 get one free). If I can find 3 people interested here I might just do that and gift the extra copies.
There are a few things I like about Steam and about a million others I fackin' hate.
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Yeah right! You still have stuff installed since 1999! :P
Which I didn't finish! :P
I generally prefer to have the box. L4D may be the one exception.
Dude, there's barely anything in the L4D box. Game disc and a hot-key cardboard piece of info. THAT'S IT. Valve does this with all their very own games that are also on Steam (HL Games and Orange Box), though.
You have a DVD-burner and some blank DVD's, right? You could always use Steam's built-in tool to back-up the game on disc. You could not use that built-in Steam DVD back-up program and just back-up with Nero or Roxio the following: the L4D folder, Source Engine files, and L4D GCF files yourself to disc -- if you want a back-up copy and all. I've never tried the Steam built-in back-up utility; I just do the latter kind of back-up.
It costs $50 to buy it on Steam and Valve have a special offer of 4-pack for $150 (like a buy 3 get one free).
Yes, that's exactly what it is.
There are a few things I like about Steam and about a million others I fackin' hate.
100% agreed on that.
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Just grabbed it and installed. Already it's telling my "Game is currently unavailable" and I figure that means it requires updating.
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No, it means Valve is a pile of shitheads and you can't play the game you just bought. I couldn't play it for an entire day because of that. Couldn't tell you what it actually meant. It'll go back to normal at some point.
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No, it means Valve is a pile of shitheads and you can't play the game you just bought. I couldn't play it for an entire day because of that. Couldn't tell you what it actually meant. It'll go back to normal at some point.
It took about an hour before it actually brought up the "game will load in ## minutes" then the game loads up fairly well.
The first feature I spotted and really blew me away was the group server option it shows on the main menu if the Overwritten server is up!! So when you guys have a server up and running I should be able to jump right in!
Down to game notes: I've only played the first stage of the "No Mercy" chapter. Little as it was, it was still fun. SO far I'm enjoying it and I can't wait to get online with y'all!
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We're around. We actually got gpw, myself, idol, and Pyro on a couple nights ago... was good fun. If we get more people who want to go on all at once, I'll switch the server to versus and we can have some fun killing each other.
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We're around. We actually got gpw, myself, idol, and Pyro on a couple nights ago... was good fun. If we get more people who want to go on all at once, I'll switch the server to versus and we can have some fun killing each other.
Ooooh.....I so wanna be a zombie....
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Man, this game is addictive! It really is a blast!
Is it just me or do alot of girls seem to play L4D? It seems pretty common that I run into girls playing online these days! Especially in L4D! Which is awesome to say the least. As history dictates: whenever women deem something worthwhile it becomes socially acceptable, and perhaps the social norm.
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Really, X?
That is interesting...
Do the girls often play as...Zoey?
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Really, X?
That is interesting...
Do the girls often play as...Zoey?
It's kind of a mixed bag, but often enough when I create a lobby any chick who logs in will select either Zoey or Louis rather than leave it on random. I've also noticed that due to my geographic location I'm mostly playing with East Asians and they seem to love the game! hehe
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Just FYI, server is down while I work out some kinks in something.
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Just FYI, server is down while I work out some kinks in something.
Let us know when it's fixed.
I'm always lookin' to play L4D with people.
Especially with some of y'all.
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Server is back up as of Sunday morning, pacific time.
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Some info on the upcoming L4D Survival Pack, L4D "Critics' Choice re-released of the game (comes with L4D + Survival Pack) and the upcoming L4D SDK. (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/05/first-left-4-dead-dlc-announced/)
Valve is looking to expand its multiplayer-focused Left 4 Dead in 2009, sending word that survivors should look forward to a variety of bonuses throughout the year.
First up is the L4D Survival Pack, which is set for a spring release and promises to add a new game mode, "Survival," along with two more full campaigns for Versus mode.
Yes!!!!
If you've been holding off on purchasing the game (there's no good excuse, by the way), you'll be pleased to note the upcoming release of a "Critics' Choice" version of the game, which includes the aforementioned DLC.
Very cool for those who been holding off and want the DLC.
The next tidbit is only for the PC gamers: Valve says it's unleashing the Source SDK, for free, this spring. It will allow PC gamers to customize and create their own campaigns and ... did we mention it's free? We imagine those folks making that Resident Evil 3 campaign are especially excited about this.
Awesome!!!
Sadly, there isn't any info as to how much the L4D Survival Pack will cost, but we'll pass along word as soon as we can.
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Since when have PC players/modders paid for SDKs? They're flaunting "did we mention it's free?" like it's something incredible.
I'm looking forward to the Survival pack.
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Since when have PC players/modders paid for SDKs? They're flaunting "did we mention it's free?" like it's something incredible.
With all kinds of stuff else being monetized (i.e. small DLC content costing money even on the PC, which often was free, back in the day), I guess they felt like mentioning it...
*shrug*
I'm looking forward to the Survival pack.
Me too.
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If the Survival Pack isn't free, I'm fucking done with this game forever.
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Yeah, I agree with Que. The only reason I paid full price for L4D was for the possibility of expansion with added campaigns, maps, community content etc. I'm not paying an extra dime to get something I am entitled to as a paying customer.
I know some of us gamers get an overactive sense of entitlement from time to time, but in the case of L4D the game's release state is sub par.. I'm not talking about technical quality, but content. Let's see, what does L4D offer: 4 areas, each with 5 maps, and 2 Versus maps.. that's it. And Valve's response to players' complaints was "more content will come soon!"
The same thing happened with Team Fortress 2, it initially only came out with 2 maps, 2 weeks later 2 more maps were included in the auto-update, then some more.
The Survival pack had better be free for current owners, oh I'm sorry, licence registrees of L4D.
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Valve has not (yet) ruled out the possibility of the Survival Pack costing $0.00. (http://www.edge-online.com/news/more-left-4-dead-content-spring)
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That's such incredible bullshit. They need to come out right now and say "Of *course* it's free!" Nothing else will satisfy me. Don't give us half a game and expect us to pay more to get the other half tiny chunks. Fuck you, Valve. Fuck you in the ass.
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Yeah, I agree with Que. The only reason I paid full price for L4D was for the possibility of expansion with added campaigns, maps, community content etc. I'm not paying an extra dime to get something I am entitled to as a paying customer.
I know some of us gamers get an overactive sense of entitlement from time to time, but in the case of L4D the game's release state is sub par.. I'm not talking about technical quality, but content. Let's see, what does L4D offer: 4 areas, each with 5 maps, and 2 Versus maps.. that's it. And Valve's response to players' complaints was "more content will come soon!"
The same thing happened with Team Fortress 2, it initially only came out with 2 maps, 2 weeks later 2 more maps were included in the auto-update, then some more.
The Survival pack had better be free for current owners, oh I'm sorry, licence registrees of L4D.
Was TF2 really that bare boned on release? I didn't think so, but thinking back to it I did buy Orange Box a few months late. By that point it was a bit light on content, but considering the value of the overall package it was hard to complain.
This, on the other hand.....
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That's such incredible bullshit. They need to come out right now and say "Of *course* it's free!" Nothing else will satisfy me. Don't give us half a game and expect us to pay more to get the other half tiny chunks. Fuck you, Valve. Fuck you in the ass.
Do you think that having this DLC come to the X360 where most DLC costs money there is what is causing them to think twice and possibly charge money for the PC version of DLC?
If Valve won't release this Survival Pack content for free on the PC, they really better have some other new maps and mode come to the PC for free...
If they decide to charge for this Survival Pack content, I'll make sure I buy it when it's cheap -- very cheap.
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It bet that Microsoft insists that DLC be charged for depending on how big it is. I read something not too long ago, I think about premium themes for the 360. The developer said that they had no choice but to charge for it, and MS won't let it be released for free.
Unfortunately, we had to charge the standard Premium Theme price of 250 Microsoft Points (which is about $3.10 in American money). We want to make it free, but Microsoft doesn’t like giving things out for free. But if you do buy it, you can be secure in the knowledge that you own one of the few Premium Themes that is not an advertisement — there is no text in the Braid theme anywhere. (Seriously, Microsoft, what is with the Subway: Eat Fresh Theme?)
http://braid-game.com/news/
about halfway down the page
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Well, it will be pay on 360 because MS makes the rules. Steam should be free. I mean...come on, $50 for the content in the game was a little steep. The only thing that made it ok was everyone "knew" more would be coming and it would be free.
I'm with Que. If valve charges PC gamers for the new content they can go fuck themselves.
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It bet that Microsoft insists that DLC be charged for depending on how big it is. I read something not too long ago, I think about premium themes for the 360. The developer said that they had no choice but to charge for it, and MS won't let it be released for free.
http://braid-game.com/news/
about halfway down the page
Never have paid for themes or gamerpics. Will never happen either. The Maw came with some of each, to unlock as you play through the game. The theme is good. I'm not sure how they got away with that. I'm aware of the mercenary Microsoft policy on these items that should always be free, everywhere. Maybe because they were part of the game in the first place.
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Well, there's a difference between regular themes and premium themes. I learned the difference the hard way. I bit the bullet and bought a theme, only to find out it wasn't premium, and that's why it was slightly cheaper. Regular themes are just backgrounds. A premium theme has background images, changes the sphere color at the bottom of the dashboard, and adds background stuff to the friends section. If you downloaded it, check out the Holiday one that was free in December (not sure if it's still up) and specifically check out the friends list. That theme is premium. I'm pretty sure all old themes from pre-NXE are applied to the dashboard like a non premium theme (just a background image).
EDIT: Not trying to say you don't know the difference, just... did the Maw come with a premium theme? :o
So yea, I bought a Dead Space theme only to find out all it did was give me a background image, which is 2/3 covered because of the sphere at the bottom, and the navigation panels. Then I bought a Gears of War 2 theme that I'm still using.
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The microtransaction trend has really taken off, and I'm cool with it to a certain extent, it's when devs and publishers think every little effortless thing can now be billed as a microtransaction that I draw the line.
Frickin' Horse Armor.. That's where it all started. In the end Horse Armor, Knights of the Nine, and all the other official DLC were added with Shivering Isles for the GOTY pack anyway, which made for a much more valuable pack.
I think I'm just gonna start a habit of buying games only after they reach the gold or GOTY editions (or PS3 Platinum collection). It generally assures a dropped price, better tech condition (most patching already done if necessary), added value via custom content, or it might be packaged with an expansion. It's starting to make a lot more sense for me to just do that from now on.
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The microtransaction trend has really taken off, and I'm cool with it to a certain extent, it's when devs and publishers think every little effortless thing can now be billed as a microtransaction that I draw the line.
Frickin' Horse Armor.. That's where it all started. In the end Horse Armor, Knights of the Nine, and all the other official DLC were added with Shivering Isles for the GOTY pack anyway, which made for a much more valuable pack.
If you missed the Oblivion + All DLC + KOTN + Shiv Isles, GOTY Pack was the way to go.
All of the DLC was on the Knights of The Nine (Expansion) pack disc -- well, except the final DLC (that came out after the fact).
The Final DLC got a free-release on BethSoft's website -- for a short time period.
I think I'm just gonna start a habit of buying games only after they reach the gold or GOTY editions (or PS3 Platinum collection). It generally assures a dropped price, better tech condition (most patching already done if necessary), added value via custom content, or it might be packaged with an expansion. It's starting to make a lot more sense for me to just do that from now on.
That's not a bad idea, since many games even on the console are doing the DLC thing -- especially if you don't have yourself connected to XBL or PSN.
For PC games, it depends on the game, for me. Some games, probably better to wait and likely look for a Gold Edition or Complete Box -- i.e. The Sims. Some games, buy as I go along -- i.e. Oblivion. Most PC games, they do have expansions and/or DLC -- and they often get re-released with more extra pieces in Expansions, Gold Editions, Critics' Choice Editions, Ultimate Editions, The Ultimate Box, etc etc.
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DLC infos (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57162)
A new Survival mode will see "up to four player set records for the longest time surviving hordes of zombies on over 12 maps," according to word from GameTrailers TV. It was not specified if those maps will be all-new or culled from existing environments.
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Bet on culled. Though I don't know that it would even bother me that much. That sounds fun as hell.
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Still, is there any word on pricing (or hopefully a lack thereof) pricing for this?
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In a surprising twist, the new Survival Pack will be free on both PC and 360. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57194)
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Freakin' awesome news, Idol.
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Thanks Idol. Good to hear we're getting what we expected.. and paid for!
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Amen, X!
Preach it.
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I was going through the Shacknews comments and some people are going on about how Valve "giving us more than we paid for" and ut in "a lot of hardwork for free" and I'm thinking all this stuff has already been paid for. The full price of the game is like a retainer fee. We paid a full $50 for the better half of the game now with the promise of more content to come. Which has pretty much been the pattern since Counter-Strike: Source. That's another title that was originally released with a paultry map selection. Also HL2DM, but that's just free with HL2 anyway.
Had Valve gone for the microtransaction model then L4D (as it is now) would have cost a lot less and every bit of content they released later would cost small sums.
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Yeah, this is all paid for already. And really...this pack isn't that big a deal to begin with.
The two "new" campaigns for Versus should have been available for Versus from the start.
Survivor mode is such an obvious mode and easy to implement its a wonder why it wasn't already there. Its basically a single map with the "infinite finale" cvar turned on. Not saying it wont be fun, but I'm pretty sure the community would have popped that out 2 minutes after the SDK release.
I mean, I appreciate getting updates and all that. Just don't give credit where it isn't really due.
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Actually we've already been doing that! With "sv_cheats 1" we started spawning infinite hordes to charge at us, tanks, smokers, everything haha!
I think the community is gonna pump out a lot of great content once the SDK is out. I'm already seeing some very promising map designs. If you get a chance look up Crossroads Mall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atuZvbEPsAg) on youtube, the mall from Dawn of the Dead. As inevitable as it is this guy seems to be doing a pretty good job of it so far. Plus it's in the day time!
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Yeah, this is all paid for already. And really...this pack isn't that big a deal to begin with.
The two "new" campaigns for Versus should have been available for Versus from the start.
Agreed.
Survivor mode is such an obvious mode and easy to implement its a wonder why it wasn't already there. Its basically a single map with the "infinite finale" cvar turned on. Not saying it wont be fun, but I'm pretty sure the community would have popped that out 2 minutes after the SDK release.
I mean, I appreciate getting updates and all that. Just don't give credit where it isn't really due.
Naturally, I'm glad the PC DLC won't cost a penny. It shouldn't, in the first place.
I'm glad Valve ain't making X360 owners (who have XB Live) pay for this update -- since Microsoft wants to try to sell every DLC that seems to exist.
Really though, I'd like to see that SDK released and some brand NEW campaigns/maps added, myself.
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The problem with the reception this is now getting is that people are basically giving Valve a "charge money for new shit" free card. I'm absolutely not going to kiss Valve's ass or say anything beyond we were owed this update since we paid real money for half a game (or in my case, somebody else did... but his money is as valuable as anyone else's, and he deserves to have it treated with the same respect even if I'm not the one who handed it over). Like idol said, the fact that two of the campaigns weren't versus-capable from the start was a complete joke, and I won't even get into the ridiculous number of problems I've had dealing with shit server-side. I can't see the code, but the implementation of whatever's there is just ugly as sin, and there are tons of problems both with Steam and the game itself that any other developer would get absolutely manhandled for. But not Valve, oh no. Heaven forbid anyone say anything bad about them. They rescue babies from pits of human sacrifice when they aren't busy making games, and they also plant special eco-flowers which restore the harmonious balance of nature while we unworthy humans waste time playing their entertainment products. Haven't you heard?
Meh, fuck that shit. What this now means, as I said before, is that any new maps or anything they come up with they can basically charge for and nobody will say anything but "Okay, here's my wallet!" And if they release more maps for free, people will just praise them even more and Steam will gain even more momentum. And Gabe Newell's fat, greasy hands will slap one of the asses of his many whores while he laughs and eats fried chicken wrapped in hundred dollar bills.
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Lol Que.
I have been dying to see what this game is about, but I just can't bear to spring for the entry fee at this point.
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It's a victory on the X360 for Valve's "Survival Pack DLC" to be free -- since we're seeing more and more stupid DLC actually cost money (especially on the consoles). Now, maybe some companies -- EA, cough, EA, cough, Capcom, cough, Street Fighter 4 DLC, cough -- will wise-up and stop selling alternate skin and character model packs for money. That stuff should be FREE, for crying out-loud.
It really would've been interesting to see Valve charge money for the "Survival Pack DLC" on the PC. I could imagine this would've been the reaction -- half would be kissing Valve's ass, while the other half would be wanting to kick Valve's ass.
I'm glad it didn't come to that, though -- and everybody's getting this stuff for free.
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One thing that bothers me about this whole mess is that it got a lot more attention than it deserved. This "free press" will probably fuel Valve's march into the microtransaction market. Which is bullshit. 2 years ago no one would have ever questioned whether or not the due content was going to be free or not. Somehow Valve managed to make it questionable and now the general public (the average Joe gamers who don't much about what shit is worth) will expect such things to cost money and, given the numbers of average Joe gamers, will screw the hardcore gamers (who know what shit is worth).
I'm treating this as a patch. It will amend, adjust, or add what is necessary to bring the product closer to "complete."
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Steam weekend deal is L4D for $25 (50% off)
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Steam weekend deal is L4D for $25 (50% off)
That's a good price for it.
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L4D sales jump
over 9000! 3000% (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57308) due to the sale, beating the games own launch sale numbers.
Cheap things sell better than expensive things. News at 11.
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I think that coupled with the announcement that the DLC would be free, helped.
edit:
http://left4dead411.com/news/2009/02/l4d-dlc-free/
The recently announced Left 4 Dead Downloadable Content (L4D DLC) will be delivered to Xbox 360 and PC gamers free of charge.
Due for release this spring, the DLC for 2008's best-selling new game property on the PC and Xbox 360, is dubbed the L4D Survival Pack and introduces a new multiplayer game mode entitled, Survival, plus two complete campaigns for Versus Mode (Death Toll, Dead Air). A Critic's Choice Edition of the game will be heading to retail stores this spring, and will include access to all the content introduced in the L4D: Survival Pack.
edit 2:
OK, Idol already posted that piece of news. Sorry, I wasn't here!
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I knew L4D's sales were gonna go crazy this weekend -- but damn, that's even better than expected!
Awesome! :)
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Update expected before April 20th. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57518)
So yes, Dead Air and Death Toll available in VS. New Survivor mode has 12 maps...11 of which are culled from the existing campaigns.
Seems to me there is just a bit too much hype for this. Its a bunch of map tweaks and only one truly new map.
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Basically contributing to the "complete" status of L4D as a whole game.
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Basically contributing to the "complete" status of L4D as a whole game.
As long as its free, fine by me.
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And why the fuck is it taking them until April to get this out? Jeebus these people are useless.
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are you guys still playing this by the way? I haven't really had the time lately but wouldn't mind doing a few more runs with you guys.
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I haven't lately, but I'm generally up for a game.
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I played this for a good while last night -- like almost 2 hours.
Despite its shortness/lack of content, L4D is still just one of those games every now and then I can just suddenly just decide to just play for like an hour or two.
Though, we need that SDK and more maps released, so I can play this game more often and for longer time periods.
I don't play L4D like I used to, when I first got the game...
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I still want to get this game, but it seems like the love affair is wearing off for most people.
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I still want to get this game, but it seems like the love affair is wearing off for most people.
B/c it needs more maps and a SDK.
That would really keep me playing more often than I currently do, which is now every now and then.
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I think it is just the people here? From the multiplayer stats I've seen L4D is getting more popular.
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Yeah, once there's more content my interest will be rekindled. I don't feel like I've absolutely exhausted what's there as it is, though without an infusion of content, it's definitely going to get stale before long. I'd say the new stuff will help, but actually it really won't since it's just a rehash of the same crap we've already seen. I'm not *that* interested in online competitive play. It's fun, and very intense, but I just don't like random pickup games. I'd much rather play with friends, but we haven't gotten together to try and take on people, so... eh.
Still, *eventually* the game is going to be filled with everything it needs. It's still a great game as it stands, just one that doesn't have quite enough to keep it going for months. But used sparingly, it's still very fun.
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I would like to play with you guys -- but when I kept trying to play when y'all had those servers were set-up, I just couldn't stay on.
I had the same problem the other night on (random) some person I don't know's server, as I got kicked-off. Though, few minutes later, I could get back on into their game, though.
Is The Net Code for this game still wonky or something? I NEVER have MP server problems w/ staying on anyone else's server for any other MP game except this L4D, which still feels like I'm getting kicked-out for what seems like no reason.
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I can never connect to the OW server.. It always times out.. The distance is too much. If its any consolation I pretend I'm playing with you guys when I'm other servers.
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Yea the ping is just too much. :(
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Yes, D, L4D has horrible netcode and a ridiculous and buggy server setup. It's unfortunate.
Though also, if you guys had been trying to connect to the server, it was down for 2/3 of this week. I had some issues with some other stuff that necessitated taking it down, and I didn't think anyone would care since no one seemed to be playing lately. It's up again now, though.
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So, yeah -- how about they fix the freakin' Net code with this next update, too?
Oh, wait -- with the way Valve does things, that means the Survival Pack DLC might be out sometime after DNF...
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Wow, they haven't fixed the server thing yet?
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L4D Sales In The Stores
2.5 million copies of L4D have been sold at Retail Outlets alone on the PC and X360.
Steam sales digitally have not been figured into the above figure....
Geez....
I wonder how many copies of this have been sold over Steam, especially with all those deals in the past on this game....The buy 3 copies get one free special (the 4 pack) and that week they did the 50% off deal.... (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3173472)
Valve discussion at GDC 09
Valve discusses how they test their games and why they end up so "polished." (http://pc.ign.com/articles/966/966972p1.html)
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Here's some info on the Survival Pack that's coming sometime this week. (http://www.l4d.com/blog/post.php?id=2417)
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Amazing, it only took them half a fucking year to release something new.
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Fuck you Que. Valve fucking rock. They are the best. I love Valve. :P
Seriously though, while there is a bit too much hate for Valve on OW ;), it isn't nearly as unbearable as the crazy fanboy love I see on the internetsss...
Everytime there is a Valve related post on Kotaku, or on the PCGAMER podcast page, there are a vast number of comments talking about wanting to perform all sorts of sexual acts on Valve.
I seriously seriously don't get it. While I really do enjoy their games, why the @$!%! are they given so much credit. It is like they are Jesus or something.
And god forbid, if you make a well balanced criticism of them. There is a podcast I stopped listening to, because it would do all sorts of insane Valve hero worship. When I called them on it on their comments section (I wasn't even flaming them... I was just pointing out how the Half-life 2 engine has lost its looks, and how Valve takes years to release titles), they pretty much went batshit on their next podcast, singling me out.
I just don't get it. Even valid complaints against Valve drive normal people nuts.
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I don't think it's fair to get on Valve's case for slow releases. No one puts down id, and they are just as bad. Quake III was released in 1999 and it wasn't until 2004 that id released Doom III and we are still waiting for their next game.
The fact is that it simply takes a long time to put together releases as polished as Valve and id (and Blizzard) do. Plus, for better or for worse, Valve spends time working on Steam.
I'm not saying I would go to the grave defending Valve, but I don't think it's fair to single out Valve when they are far from the only guilty party and the other guilty parties are rarely singled out to the same level as Valve.
Edit: LOL. Valve doesn't do WoW. I don't know why I said that.
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I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. We're talking about a developer that released what amounts to three quarters of a game and can't even give it a proper update within 6 months, not to mention has the most broken fucking server tools ever, which they still haven't fixed and probably won't. Valve is nothing like id or Blizzard, and their titles are nowhere near as polished. Not by a mile. I won't say their games are bad or that they aren't quality generally from a gameplay perspective, that's not really what we're talking about here.
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I've never played L4D, but all the other Valve games I've played have had a very high degree of polish.
If I have any fault with them, it would simply be their attempt at episodic content. The releases were simply too far apart for that to be successful. I'm not a Steam fan, but I don't loathe it either.
As far as L4D goes... I don't know what to say. It's been known from the beginning that the game was light on the amount of content out of the box. Sure, Valve should have sold it at a lower price, waited longer to release it with more content, or tried to get more content out sooner but it isn't like there was a veil of mystery about how much content there was.
It's like buying a late 90's Mitsubishi Eclipse... yeah, you know they aren't very reliable but damn they are cool looking! Just don't complain when its transmission goes out because it's virtually guaranteed.
The server tools... well I guess that's another story and I can't speak to that. I don't run servers on my machine because my connection would make it laggy as hell so I don't look into that sort of thing. That isn't to say that I don't acknowledge it as a problem, just that I haven't bothered to look into it at all.
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Yea, in my experience Valve games are generally better, more polished than iD games. I don't think iD made a great game since the time when the time when it stopped being acceptable for a company to design a kick ass engine, and call it a whole game.
In terms of Valve taking a long time, I just mean the whole episodic content thing. I think Valve got away with a lot of bull there because they have a dedicated fanbase. Like how they term expansions as "episodes".
I don't think it's fair to get on Valve's case for slow releases. No one puts down id, and they are just as bad. Quake III was released in 1999 and it wasn't until 2004 that id released Doom III and we are still waiting for their next game.
I see what you are saying, but at least those companies are releasing new games.
I was initially going to say that Valve were "milking" things, but I guess that can't be completely fair. The Orange Box was pretty cheap for the content it offered. But I can't imagine playing Ep3. I am seriously tired of those 1999 sound effects, that I find sound terrible. The engine is pretty boring too, and I just don't see any other company releasing three shooter expansions on the same engine.
I do concede that the Source engine has been improved plenty, especially in terms of textures -- as evident from L4D and Portal, but the engine felt more tolerable because those games were completely fresh. While Ep2 was pretty good at times, my brain often went to sleep out of familiarity.
EFFFFFFFFFFFFFIXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (that's what that health recharge stations sounds like to me)
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Source has been stretched a bit far, I think. L4D is not a particularly good looking game, though they did do an *exceptionally* good job on the player models. They look fantastic and have tons of detail. I don't think the rest holds up very well. I mean, I'm not a graphics whore and I don't care at all because the game is fun, but a company without as many braindead zombie fanboys wouldn't be selling so many units on that kind of tech.
I continue to disagree that Valve makes more polished games. I've made my points about what I think constitutes a good game before, so I won't go back into why I think HL2 is nowhere near as good as advertised. But again, I'm talking in technical terms here, and the Source engine is not a bastion of stability or range. I've had plenty of problems with it over the years, particularly when you couple the fucker with Steam, which is also mechanically broken. And yes, L4D's server problems are both persistent and widely acknowledged, at least last I checked (which wasn't long ago, and there has been no significant update that I'm aware of). In my eyes, L4D had more problems than Demigod, and Valve can't even give you a reason, where Stardock could tell you why and how. Valve just refuses to acknowledge issues and won't fix anything when it breaks (which is why Steam is still completely broken for many users, like myself and idol).
Anyway, I don't dislike Valve for no reason. I don't walk around the world trying to find things to piss me off. I don't think they make bad games, whatever my preferences might be, and even if I think a game doesn't live up to the hype, that doesn't mean I don't think it's pretty great on the whole. However, I hate them as a company. I don't think they treat customers well, I think they talk a lot of shit that they can't back up, and I think they're utterly inept in certain areas and will never admit to the problems that causes. If they went under I'd be tempted to throw a party, even though it would be a terrible thing for the PC games industry because of Steam's popularity. I'd still be tempted.
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Actually, I get the feeling PC gaming would be in better shape in the long run if Steam went away. The last thing we need is vendor lock-in. Its already to the point where people wont buy a game unless its on Steam. Thats fucking bad. That will eventually lead to Valve calling the shots since, like Wal-Mart, you won't be able to cut them out of the picture if they give you a shitty deal. Not to mention that Valve does turn down games. Case in point, they initially turned down Braid. It went on to be praised and huge on Xbox so they changed their tune.
Valve makes some good games, I wont deny that. They are a little overhyped, though. I've never been impressed with the "physics puzzles" they've tossed into the HL2 series. The Episodes both have some areas you can see they wanted to stretch out the time played (EP1 had you run back and forth taking people to the train, EP2 had that antlion turret defense thing). Just things I can see people ripping on if it was anyone but Valve.
The Source engine is a bit of a joke, at least to me. 2004 HL2 released, 2010 is looking like when Episode 3 will be out. 6 years, same engine. Updated here and there, but for the most part it wont be terribly different. Thats the length of time between HL1 and HL2s release, and they had to build the engine (or at least the parts that weren't from Carmack). We went from UT2004 to UT3 in this time, Doom 3 to Rage (should be out by then).
I wonder when they are going to scrap it. Hopefully Episode 3 is their last Source engine game. I seriously think Valves artists are being constrained by it. The games look damn good and thats despite the engine, not because of it. If you let them loose on something more modern, let them really flex their muscle you would see some great stuff.
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Anyway...yeah, L4D update. A new mode that modders would have made in the first week had an SDK been released, using a bunch of maps that are just parts of the maps we already have. Great.
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That's a good point. I've argued the same thing about many politicians, recent and otherwise. If they're popular and they fail, sometimes that's bad for the country... but in the long run, it may be better to get them out before they cause more damage to infrastructure.
If Impulse managed to get closer to being a true successor to Steam, then I wouldn't think it would be so bad. People would have a good alternative to go to. Even now it'd be nice to see Impulse get more users, but they aren't up to the same level as Steam yet as far as features and library to truly be a replacement for people who have a fucking IV line running from their genitals to Steam.
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I'd rather see Impulse succeed than Steam, as well.
Just imagine if GOG has their own New Games Club, as well -- and it followed the same format of NO DRM and NO Front-End Program necessary...
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I think these online stores just need to be more like...stores. Part of that is the publishers fault. Get your game on as many services as possible and let the gamer choose where they want to buy. Each service would then have to compete on usability and extra features. If they want me to buy on Steam, they'd have to improve Steam. Which would benefit everyone.
Buying games on Steam because "All the other games I bought are on Steam" is a lame answer.
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I think the main issue I have with them is the necessity for a frontend application. How many game launcher do I really need?!
In the case of Steam I really wish it wasn't so woven into the fabric of the games. It makes sense for Valve games but for everything else it just provides another hurdle to get over just to get a game going.
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I think these online stores just need to be more like...stores. Part of that is the publishers fault. Get your game on as many services as possible and let the gamer choose where they want to buy. Each service would then have to compete on usability and extra features. If they want me to buy on Steam, they'd have to improve Steam. Which would benefit everyone.
Buying games on Steam because "All the other games I bought are on Steam" is a lame answer.
The other thing -- Impulse version, Retail version, Steam version for the same game -- are all quite different. The non-universal factor can be annoying.
If I buy a game at Retail outlet and it's also out on Steam, if I so choose, I should be able to convert my retail version into Steam. Only SOME games allow for that -- such as Dark Messiah and UT3.
For example, if you buy say Spore on Steam, you're stuck with buying all Spore expansions through Steam -- unless you want to buy a retail copy of Spore. I should be able to mix and match, if I so choose.
At least w/ the Dawn of War games (ONLY Dawn of War, Winter Assault, Dark Crusade, Soulstorm) they really don't care what version you own; Steam or Retail. Those games are protected by the license key from Relic, more so than anything.
Can't say the same for Dawn of War 2, since all versions are protected by Steam.
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Valve makes some good games, I wont deny that. They are a little overhyped, though. I've never been impressed with the "physics puzzles" they've tossed into the HL2 series. The Episodes both have some areas you can see they wanted to stretch out the time played (EP1 had you run back and forth taking people to the train, EP2 had that antlion turret defense thing). Just things I can see people ripping on if it was anyone but Valve.
I don't consider myself a Valve fan. I've liked most of what I played from them, except TF2 and the original Half-Life, which I actually tried to play for the first time after HL2. To me Valve is just another company that makes games. As I said, I happen to like almost everything they've released, including both HL2 episodes.
Regarding HL2, I don't think I was as impressed with any other game ever save Doom. It certainly wasn't the storytelling. I think it was sort of... personality the game had. The beginning of the game at the train station went a long way towards really making me feel like part of the game and I was impressed with the little things, such as the Combine guys pushing you when you got too close. And I liked the physics puzzles because I hadn't seen that level of physics in a game before. In short, the game truly floored me.
But I acknowledge that people such as Que had issues with the game because of how it felt like a bunch of different little games stitched together. For me that wasn't a problem and I actually liked it, but not everyone is me. I'm not a staunch HL2 defender or anything, but yes I personally think the game was fantastic... a milestone if you will.
The Source engine is a bit of a joke, at least to me. 2004 HL2 released, 2010 is looking like when Episode 3 will be out. 6 years, same engine. Updated here and there, but for the most part it wont be terribly different. Thats the length of time between HL1 and HL2s release, and they had to build the engine (or at least the parts that weren't from Carmack). We went from UT2004 to UT3 in this time, Doom 3 to Rage (should be out by then).
I don't think it's a huge deal. It's beginning to show its age, but I wouldn't say that games using the source engine look dated yet. Look at the longevity that the QIII engine had, and it definitely was looking dated after 6 years.
I think you do have to wonder though why it took Valve so long to come up with Source. It was an evolution, not a revolution. And it's not going to last forever no matter how many little updates they do. You have to wonder if they are going to take another seven years to make the next engine.
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Well, they took 9 years of development time to repackage an existing multiplayer game with a new art style, and then release it with 6 shitty maps; so I sure hope they're working on a new engine by now.
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Quake III's engine was a bit like Crysis when it came out, because it was ahead of its time. A lot of people bitched for the first six months or so until their rigs started to catch up. Overall it was a very powerful engine, and continued to wow many years later. HL2 sorta lost the wow factor within a year.
And I think the TF2 maps are pretty cool.
The Source engine is a bit of a joke, at least to me. 2004 HL2 released, 2010 is looking like when Episode 3 will be out. 6 years, same engine. Updated here and there, but for the most part it wont be terribly different. Thats the length of time between HL1 and HL2s release, and they had to build the engine (or at least the parts that weren't from Carmack). We went from UT2004 to UT3 in this time, Doom 3 to Rage (should be out by then).
I sometimes wonder if Ep3 will be scrapped all together, with HL3 basically continuing where Ep3 left off in a new engine. Though I then realize it wouldn't be possible, since that wouldn't allow HL3 to be a self contained title.
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I think the Source engine's strong point now is its scalability. Most, if not all, Source games run on older machines and I love the fact that my brother, using an older gen Pentium Celeron D with a Radeon X1650 256MB vid card and I can play the game together. It is ideal for games like TF2, L4D, CS:S, and other multiplayers. It's indeal for the Internet Café gaming experience.
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I think the Source engine's strong point now is its scalability. Most, if not all, Source games run on older machines and I love the fact that my brother, using an older gen Pentium Celeron D with a Radeon X1650 256MB vid card and I can play the game together. It is ideal for games like TF2, L4D, CS:S, and other multiplayers. It's indeal for the Internet Café gaming experience.
How many gamers are actually running games like L4D on say an older/lesser rig?
EDIT:
L4D - Survival Pack DLC (Free!) released for X360 through XBL and PC through Steam. (http://store.steampowered.com/news/2433/)
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It's a huge thing here! A lot of people I know that aren't even casual gamers went for it when they saw how well it ran. Aside from that Internet Cafés are a big business out here and games like L4D give their systems a longer lifespan since they wouldn't need to upgrade their machines as frequently.
L4D (like Counter-Strike) became pretty popular among businessmen-gamers around here since they could actually run it.
I think games need to adhere to the tech heirarchy: top-tier (tech-heavy titles like Crysis and the upcoming RAGE), mainstream (L4D, TF2), and basic (Popcap, Bigfish Games). I believe that's what the Windows Performance Rating was trying to achieve but it fails miserably.
That reminds me, I just reinstalled Company of Heroes and according to the Windows Rating it says required: 3.0 and recommended: 4.0, my system gets a 5.3 (hard drive speed is my lowest score, everything else is 5.9+), and there's no way I can run that game on High settings! Heck on medium settings it chugs! I noticed the biggest performance factor is shadows, switched them off. All settings are low-medium if I want to run it at a decent framerate. So this begs the question "What the fuck do you mean the recommended rating is 4.0??!"
EDIT:
By contrast Dawn of War II runs beautifully at medium-high.
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I just tried out the Survival pack.
According to the advertised content:
New Survival gameplay Mode
16 maps including Last Stand
Leaderboards
7 new achievements
2 new Versus campaigns
How much of that is actually true? New survival mode, 7 new achievements, leaderboards, and ONE new map.
There's only one new map: Last Stand. The survival maps are all recycled, and the "new" Versus campaigns are among the content that was missing from the initial release so they could get the game out in time.
On a positive note the pack is more like a patch that makes the game feel a tad more complete.
So to recap:
-1 new map
-1 new gamemode
-added leaderboards (which is more like a bug fix than new content)
-7 new achievements (like that actually counts as content)
The fact that they have the gall to announce 16 recycled maps as "new" content is a step in the evil direction where the average gamer is expected to pay for genuinely new content.
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Yeah, that's pretty shitty. Again, if any other developer tried this, people would condemn them, but not Valve.
Motherfucking fanboys.
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Yeah, that's pretty shitty. Again, if any other developer tried this, people would condemn them, but not Valve.
Motherfucking fanboys.
I swear man, these fucking fanbitches are grovelling like peons for every drop of piss that hits them from their mighty Valve.
Seriously though, the content does not justify the delay. 3-4 months and one map. Really?! :o
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That's what I'm saying. I mean... damn it, I think L4D is really fun. It's a good game. But it was released just over 5 months ago, and this is it? No improvements to nonsensical server stupidity, one new map, and giving us a new mode that's basically just tiny bits that are already in the main game? Screw that noise, man. Seriously, the "new" mode is basically just the "crescendo" points from the main game except you don't move past them and more waves just keep coming. Those parts are great in the context of making you sweat until you pass them, but I don't think I really want to sit there doing that over and over. I could be wrong, and I'll give it a shot, but I don't have high hopes.
But yeah, a rehash mode and giving us the rest of the content that should have been there in the first place is not cool. Especially not after five fucking months.
Eh. I don't want to get too down about it. I was lucky to get the game as a gift, and I've had fun playing with buddies. Hopefully we can get some more games going at some point, try out the versus mode together more. And I'm hoping they'll actually release some new content at some point so we can try new stuff. I'd love to see a new campaign.
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That's what I'm saying. I mean... damn it, I think L4D is really fun. It's a good game. But it was released just over 5 months ago, and this is it? No improvements to nonsensical server stupidity, one new map, and giving us a new mode that's basically just tiny bits that are already in the main game? Screw that noise, man. Seriously, the "new" mode is basically just the "crescendo" points from the main game except you don't move past them and more waves just keep coming. Those parts are great in the context of making you sweat until you pass them, but I don't think I really want to sit there doing that over and over. I could be wrong, and I'll give it a shot, but I don't have high hopes.
But yeah, a rehash mode and giving us the rest of the content that should have been there in the first place is not cool. Especially not after five fucking months.
I'm glad they finally gave us all the content we should've got in the first place -- all the rest of the maps in Versus. At least they didn't nickle and dime us for that.
But, you'd figure by this time, they'd say pump out ONE new "Episode" by now...
And I'm hoping they'll actually release some new content at some point so we can try new stuff. I'd love to see a new campaign.
I'd love to see some maps released that somehow link the campaigns together, since they all seem to be separate entities.
A new campaign and a SDK is what I want more than anything.
I want MORE content for L4D.
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I don't really see or why they could link the campaigns together, each one is unique to its theme, like a little individual zombie films.
I would love to see more campaigns too. I'm hoping the Lighthouse map is just a preview of a campaign that they'll release in the near future "The Last Stand."
I think I've learned one lesson from all this crap with Valve: never buy a game with the impression that it will get more content; wait till it actually does get more content then hop on the wagon.
That probably means I won't pick up any Valve games until about a year after their release date.
Btw, regarding the Survival update, is it just me or is the new menu video crap? It looks like shit quality and it's irritating.
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If the Lighthouse map is a preview of a new campaign, then it's just going to be rehash of the 2nd one anyway. There was nothing new there, just more nice looking rural area with a house. It could almost have been several parts of the 2nd campaign. When I first watched a video of it, I thought it was.
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Goddamn you guys.... Im never going to play this game again.
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I always felt that Death Toll and Blood Harvest were very closely related campaigns. Both very rural.
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I still love the game, don't get me wrong. It's a great idea and well executed. I hope they release more free content and stuff... I just wish they'd hurry the hell up about it. And I wish people would stop jerking them off for everything.
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I still love the game, don't get me wrong. It's a great idea and well executed. I hope they release more free content and stuff... I just wish they'd hurry the hell up about it. And I wish people would stop jerking them off for everything.
Couldn't have said it better.
All I'm really expecting from Valve is the same support and diligence we've seen with their other games e.g. HL (both), TF2, CS:S etc.
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Valve needs to get the hell going w/ more L4D content, getting a SDK out there, new campaigns, new game-modes, and everything else to make L4D what it really should be -- the best Multiplayer FPS ever.
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Very nice D, you win the obvious post of the week yet again. Your 6 year streak continues untouched.
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Valve needs to get the hell going w/ more L4D content, getting a SDK out there, new campaigns, new game-modes, and everything else to make L4D what it really should be -- the best Multiplayer FPS ever.
Sorry, L4D will never be Tribes.
I'm working on getting L4D updated. Its going about as slowly as it possibly can.
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Very nice D, you win the obvious post of the week yet again. Your 6 year streak continues untouched.
hahaha
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Woohoo!
I'm on a roll! :)
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(http://www.grim-planet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/jesus_facepalm.jpg)
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Oh, Jesus... :o
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Free to play this weekend on Steam. Well, not this weekend but this Friday. I guess I could have posted this sooner to give timef or preloading. There's 20 hours left of the free trial as of this posting.
I was just playing it a little. Now I hate myself even more for buying the Xbox version. I would have spent SOOOOO much more time with it if I'd gotten the PC version, it's so much more playable. It's also on sale for $24 this weekend, but I've litterally got no money at all.
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A BETA Version of the Left 4 Dead Authoring Tools (SDK) has been publicly released. (http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=98381) If you own L4D, boot Steam up - you can DL it from there.
You can read Valve's Wiki on this, for more info, instructions, and whatnot. (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Authoring_Tools/SDK_(Left_4_Dead))
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<@Quemaqua> So I thought I'd play some L4D today. Can you guess what happened when I tried to load it?
<@idolminds> It went outside and shit on your lawn?
<@Quemaqua> heh
<@Quemaqua> It just wouldn't load. Tried 5 times, nothing. Restarted Steam, nothing.
<@idolminds> typical
<@Quemaqua> It says "Syncing 0%" for about 2 seconds, then just... does nothing.
<@Quemaqua> So I guess I don't get to play L4D anymore.
<@idolminds> welcome to the club
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For some reason, none of that stuff ever happens to my system, ever.
What does happen is when the internet is down for some reason, and steam refuses to load. After I tell it to "start in offline" mode, it just says "UPDATING STEAM"... which is bullshit, as it doesn't really have any update when the internet returns.
It is frustrating as hell, especially since sometimes it just works perfectly OK in that offline mode.
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That sucks, Que.
Have you tried closing Steam, deleting the ClientRegistry.blob file, then reloading Steam? That seems to solve most problems I encounter.
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Not yet. The fact that the program just didn't fucking work the way it was supposed to pissed me off and I went and did something else instead.
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Not yet. The fact that the program just didn't fucking work the way it was supposed to pissed me off and I went and did something else instead.
Yep, similar thing happened to me last month. I ended up translating and subtitling a French movie (Taxi 3) so my dad could watch it. Took about 4-5 hours total time. More productive and enjoyable than stressing over Steam's shortcomings and complaining to Valve who won't respond anyway. My brother spent the time snoozing, which I believe was also more productive and enjoyable than dealing with Steam.
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Doug Lombardi says more L4D DLC for Windows PC and X360 versions to be announced "soon."
"Soon" to Valve looks like "End of Summer." (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=218758)
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I love how they make news by not saying anything. "So we've got stuff coming which we've said before. And we won't give any details, as usual."
Lombardi added, "I think 8, 9 months from now once everything's been out for a while and everyone's had time to see the complete product of Left 4 Dead 2 and see continued support for Left 4 Dead 1, they may sort of see what we were up to and what the method of our madness was there."
8-9 months? Why don't you tell us now? Maybe they just like to keep the drama going.
I guess I can post this now. Summary of L4D Launch Reviews (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904952). A nice thing to link to when people say you are "spoiled" and feel "entitled" to new maps.
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I love how they make news by not saying anything. "So we've got stuff coming which we've said before. And we won't give any details, as usual."
Have they been hanging out with 3DR or something???
8-9 months? Why don't you tell us now? Maybe they just like to keep the drama going.
I think so, yes. They love to tease us...
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Nice link Idol.
Just for the sake of argument, how would L4D stack up against, say, Portal or TF2 in terms of value and amount of content? Portal is a much longer game, though it is only singleplayer, and TF2 has a heck of a lot more content altogether (granted it was accumulated over some time). Considering each only costs $20 individually and both come with The Orange Box (plus HL2, EP1, EP2) with a total cost $30, that's a heck of a value.
I guess I'm just repeating now. That list of reviews and content commentary rekindled the flame.
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With the way Valve's going here with trickling out DLC and info about upcoming DLC, I think it's up to the modders and the community to save L4D1.
I really hope the community goes crazy w/ L4D1 SDK these next few months...
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I'm sure you can guess what my sentiments are.
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I'm sure you can guess what my sentiments are.
I think I see Que *flipping* a *bird* into the sky, which will land directly on Valve...
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I guess I can post this now. Summary of L4D Launch Reviews (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904952). A nice thing to link to when people say you are "spoiled" and feel "entitled" to new maps.
This stuff only emphasizes my dissenting point (http://www.overwritten.net/forum/index.php?topic=3457.msg67633#msg67633): it was well known that L4D was short on content. In a sense, bitching about it now is like bitching that Shenmue's 13 chapter story never got finished.
Yeah, they said it was going to happen...
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If somebody says they're going to do something and then fail to do it, we have every right to be pissed off. End of story.
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I agree with Que.
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Some modder team is working on a mod called Left 4 Winchester -- and they're recreating locations from the Shaun of the Dead movie as levels for their mod. (http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/07/left_4_winchester_shaun_of_the.php)
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Sweet! ;D I love that movie!
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That movie kicked-ass.
I hope they put a cricket bat in this mod.
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Too bad they decided to make a mod for a completely broken game.
Of the last 3 times idol, Pyro and I have tried to get a game going, guess how many worked?
Zero. Different reasons each time.
I don't want to be accused of being a Valve troll again, but I honestly think that may be the last product of theirs I ever try.
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Too bad they decided to make a mod for a completely broken game.
Of the last 3 times idol, Pyro and I have tried to get a game going, guess how many worked?
Zero. Different reasons each time.
I don't want to be accused of being a Valve troll again, but I honestly think that may be the last product of theirs I ever try.
You know, it's amazing the backlash Demigod suffered for its Internet issues -- yet, L4D didn't really get the backlash it should've for its Internet issues.
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Even when Demigod was "broken" I didn't have as many problems with it as I've had with L4D. Not anywhere even close.
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New campaign announced (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/59832)
Crash Course Campaign Due in September
August 4, 2009 - Valve, creators of best-selling game franchises (such as Half-Life, Portal, Team Fortress, and Counter-Strike) and leading technologies (such as Steam and Source), today announced the next major downloadable content (DLC) update for its co-operative zombie thriller, Left 4 Dead (L4D), the #1 new game title on Xbox 360 and PC in 2008
Entitled "Crash Course," the latest DLC delivers new single-player, multiplayer and co-operative gameplay to both platforms. Targeted for release in September, "Crash Course" bridges the gap between the end of the "No Mercy" campaign and the beginning of "Death Toll" in the original game, expanding the game universe with new locations, new dialogue from the original cast, and an explosive finale
While containing both Survival maps and a Co-operative Campaign, the primary goal of "Crash" is to deliver a complete Versus mode experience in just 30 minutes, resulting in a streamlined version of the game's existing Versus campaigns. A recharge timer for infected teammates has also been added, and item spawn behavior has changed for more balanced gameplay.
"Since the release of Left 4 Dead last November, the design team has been excited about creating new experiences for this world and allowing players to do the same, by releasing much of our internal toolset, like the Survival Pack and Authoring Tools," said Gabe Newell. "We're working with the fans toward the ongoing entertainment value of the product."
Left 4 Dead is an action horror game from Valve that blends the social entertainment experience of multiplayer games such as Counter-Strike and Team Fortress with the dramatic, narrative experience made popular in single player action game classics such as the Half-Life series of games. Released in November of 2008, L4D has earned over 50 industry awards from outlets around the world and sold almost 3 million copies worldwide.
Left 4 Dead: Crash Course is targeted for release in September and will be available free of charge on the PC and for 560 Gamer points on Xbox Live.
Destructoid says they got to play it, and its a two chapter (read: two map) campaign.
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Finally.
When they gonna bridge the other campaign's gaps with the DLC, too?
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Wow. The amount of content is almost too much to handle. Not only one, but two whole maps? I wonder how many months those took them to develop.
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Wow. The amount of content is almost too much to handle. Not only one, but two whole maps? I wonder how many months those took them to develop.
Probably 12.
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Wow. The amount of content is almost too much to handle. Not only one, but two whole maps? I wonder how many months those took them to develop.
Not to mention its the conclusion for these characters meaning this is the last of the DLC that this one is getting so they can move onto L4D3.
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Did you see the characters they're doing for the sequel? If they did a third game, I wonder how they could get any more stereotypical and nonsensical for a zombie game.
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I bet they already are working on L4D3....
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L4D2 Boycott Group reveals from their visit that there will be more L4D1 DLC coming after "Crash Course." (http://l4d2boycott.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=announce&thread=387&page=1)
Now for some good news: There is more DLC for Left 4 Dead coming after CrashCourse. We were given a rough idea of what it should be, however we were asked not to talk too much about it so it didn’t “influence the creative process”. I can tell you this: it’ll either be a new Special Infected, a new Campaign or new Weapon(s). It’s definitely one of the three, perhaps more. This is pretty much the only thing that we were asked not to talk about (remember, *asked* we didn’t sign anything). To that end, we’ll continue to bug Chet about this after Crash Course drops.
I can tell you guys this though; Chet and the rest of the L4D team are still excited about the original four survivors and working the stories of L4D and L4D2 together. To that end, Gabe told us that they’re working on a project that will bridge the stories of L4D and L4D2 and that it will be available through steam (I believe the word ‘free’ was tossed in there too, just don’t quote me on it). It was also hinted at that they were doing something for the Mod community; Agent of Chaos heard more about that though.
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Fuck that shit. It better be a new campaign with a new special infected and a new weapon.
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It better be a new campaign with a new special infected and a new weapon.
I'd be in favor for having all of that. :)
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Crash Course is finally out.
Here are the details of the update:
-A new campaign, "Crash Course", is now available for play in Campaign, Versus and Survival modes
-In Versus mode, all weapons, pills, health packs, molotovs, pipe bombs and other items will now be identical for the second round of a chapter
-Matchmaking has had several improvements to make finding and joining games even faster
-Ten all new "Crash Course" achievements have been added
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To add to what Xessive said...
Until OCTOBER 2ND for the PC version...
Left 4 Dead: GOTY Edition on Steam is $14.99 (half price) to celebrate The Crash Course release.
For those looking for FOUR people to buy the game for The Left 4 Dead: GOTY Edition - Four Pack on Steam is $44.99 (half price). (http://store.steampowered.com/app/500/)
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I wonder if it's any good. Will update the game and report soonish.
I also like how the term "even faster" is used with matchmaking there as a bullet point. That's a nice, optimistic spin. I was thinking "marginally less completely fucking broken" would probably be more accurate.
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Que, it's free.
I played one map -- and it was tough. Me and Xessive were playing it earlier -- and yeah, I dunno what difficulty they all had it set for -- but, I was having a blast w/ that map.
Hopefully, Valve gets on the ball and releases more Free DLC maps soon. Of course, we know Valve takes forever to release ONE map or TWO maps...
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I wouldn't get your hopes up. And when did I say it wasn't free?
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I wouldn't get your hopes up.
They take forever -- I ain't getting my hopes up, either.
I wonder w. the SDK out, if there's any really good modder-made L4D Maps out there...
And when did I say it wasn't free?
I know you didn't say that!
What I'm really implying by what I said is this -- "Give it a shot! It's worth the 5-10 minute download."
I know, Valve ain't giving us much content here (again) -- but at least they ain't charging us for us.
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MyD and I had some fun with it. It was on Advanced difficulty (one level above Normal).
The campaign is not bad but it's a mere two stages. So even then it doesn't compare to any of the original campaigns in scale. Valve set the standard for each campaign consisting of 5 stages and they're not even meeting that.
The part that bugs me is how they boast about content and overhype like "a new entire campaign" like it's gonna be the motherload of DLC then they toss us some crumbs. At least this time we got the bitch-slice (y'know that one tiny-ass slice every home-delivered pizza has? That's the bitch-slice).
Luckily, the community has been doing some decent work since the release of the SDK. ne of the best community campaigns I've come across is Death Aboard (http://www.l4dmaps.com/details.php?file=33). Decent scale, great design.
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Yeah, we've run some Death Aboard. Pretty sweet.
That reminds me, I have to get the latest version of it. The download ballooned to a huge size when he added survival maps and stuff so Ive been holding off.
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I know, Valve ain't giving us much content here (again) -- but at least they ain't charging us for us.
Well I have the Xbox 360 version. Crash Course is 560 points ($7).
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Well I have the Xbox 360 version. Crash Course is 560 points ($7).
We've basically been talking about the PC version.
But, that is correct. There was big ordeal a bit ago about Crash Course for PC would be free, 360 would be $7.00 -- and Valve was saying that Microsoft made them charge it.
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I almost don't even care to download it after reading about it. 2 maps? Fucking worthless. Mod teams have outdone you, Valve. Learn how to develop a fucking game or get another job. Idiots.
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The anticipated "Dead Before Dawn" custom campaign was released on Halloween day, weighing in at 1.1GB, the good news being that the torrent is now available here (http://www.mininova.org/tor/3106067).
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Downloading!
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What's with the flashlight in this game? The beam is narrow as hell.
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Dunno, guessing performance issue to keep shadows to a minimum when you're shining it at a bunch of zombies. Same reason you cant see the flashlights of other players.
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That makes sense.
I love the dialogue in the game. I was just on the elevator:
Francis: "I can't wait to kill some more vampires"
Bill: "They're zombies, Francis."
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The dialogue was one thing I did appreciate about it. Some of it was pretty amusing. I think the vampire/zombie line was my favorite out of all of them.