Topic: Avatar Trailer

[scottws]

I see what you're saying, Que.

As for CG, I am torn on it.  I am often more impressed when I know a movie or a particular scene isn't using CG for some good special effects because CG is often the easy way out or even just really fake looking.  But I don't really care if a movie is all CG.  I really liked The Incredibles and the Toy Story movies and Wall-E.  Stuff that is supposed to look a bit more real comes off looking strange on occasion.  Like Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within had some really life-like images, but it just felt weird.  I guess it was the kind of soulless look of the characters and their movements.  And The Polar Express had some really off-looking facial animations.

Avatar is different in the sense that while you know everything is CG, it comes across as very lifelike.  You'd be surprised how real it feels although I will admit that on occasion it has some cartoon-like qualities.

The only thing that really bugged me about the movie was the sound of the bumblebee helicopter things.  They sounded just like regular helicopters except that their small, fast, quad-rotor setup would in reality sound nothing at all like a helicopter.  Everytime they were flying, I struggled to suspend my disbelief.

[Quemaqua]

CG can be okay when you're using it for what's essentially a cartoon, but I don't like when it replaces people or the art of good costume design.  And I'm sorry, but those fucking blue people in this movie are just idiotic looking.  I can't take that shit seriously even a little bit.

But yeah, I mostly hate when a movie uses CG to try and make something look real that they should have made look real by having it BE real.  That frustrates me a lot, and I think technology is now often a cop-out for so many things.  This is just another extension of it.  It's like Japanese people not being able to write tons of kanji they should be able to write because they use computers so much to do it for them, or people not being able to spell anything because they're used to having a spell-check do everything for them, or people never proofreading anything because they're always so sure that spellcheck will catch everything (which is why you so frequently see there/their or you're/your or verses/versus and other such mistakes), or people not being able to read a clock because they always look at their digital watches and cell phones, or people not being able to do basic math because they always have access to a calculator on their phone.  That sort of thing just bugs the shit out of me.  I see CG in the same light.  What happens when you don't have 80 bajillion dollars to spend on a gigantic team of 47 people to make your movie monster?  You hire that one fucking super-talented guy that can still do it with rubber, plastic, and ketchup.

[gpw11]

I don't care what anyone says - that 3D shit was fucking unreal.

[Xessive]

Just got home after watching Avatar in 3D. Frickin' awesome movie. The 3D effects were amazing. Coupled with the incredible quality (story, plot, conflict, CGI, special effects, everything) of the movie it was a great experience. Loved every second of it.

[Raisa]

I didn't think I'd go and see this. But my hubby got a gift for free passes. So we went and saw it in 3D. i wasn't really into seeing it.. But I'm glad I did. I've heard a lot of stuff about it lacking story etc.. But it's got more heart and truth in it than most movies out there. The whole thing about respecting other living creatures (plants, animals, etc) was refreshing!

[Quemaqua]

You've obviously failed to see the 12,000 movies that already had the exact same plot.

[Raisa]

the plot's old, but the little components that make up the story is what makes it different.

it's kind of funny how you bash something to death and hate on it without giving it a chance. if that carries over to other things in life--you'll probably miss a lot.

[Quemaqua]

That's a rather extreme judgment considering this is a conversation about a meaningless action movie.  You going to tell me I have a narrow view on life for judging Transformers without seeing it?

[ScaryTooth]

Yeah. I'm going to go see it again this weekend. It's just cool. I'm really curious to see what he's going to do with this universe that he's created. I want to know more about the planet, the plant life, and the animals. And I want to know more about the Na'vi, and the different tribes.

It's James Cameron, he isn't known for making super original movies. He's known for making good ones, except maybe his first two or so. Although I disliked Titanic. Just wasn't feeling the love story. Not to say that the movie was bad. It was actually very good. I just got bored with the love story.

[Quemaqua]

Actually, I thought Titanic was kind of terrible.  It had its moments, but there were a ton of inconsistencies with the script, some very bad acting (the lead gal was good, but a lot of the others were awful), and what I thought were some questionable cinematographic choices made.  I was never a huge fan of Cameron, but I think Titanic was about when I decided he should go find another job.

[PyroMenace]

Nobody ever mentions The Abyss, which was fucking amazing, probably the best emotional driven movie he's ever done.

[Quemaqua]

I'm pretty sure we can all agree with that one.  That was a good flick.  That was back when he was less of a colossal douchebag and still cared about making movies rather than wanking around with technology and his own personal beliefs.

[scottws]

Aliens anyone?  One of the best action or sci-fi movies ever?

[Pugnate]

Aliens, T1, T2... some of the best movies ever made. I really don't get the hatred... I really truly don't get it. I mean there are easily bigger jackass directors... like Brett Rattner for example.

[Cobra951]

I'm taken aback too.  There are things I feel this strongly about, but they all involve human death and despair, not silver-screen entertainment.

[PyroMenace]

I think hatred is too harsh of a word. A lot of this mostly has to do with the movie's hype which I do find a little annoying. Why so much excitement over some nice CG? We all know that CG alone doesn't make something worth watching. So yea, I do see Que's point, if he doesn't like CG, he will not like this movie.

On the other hand, Cameron did set out to create a visually rich world and setting, and after seeing the movie, I think he did accomplish that. The movie is very beautiful and the 3D in some parts is really fucking cool. When coming in to see the movie, I knew what I was in for and I was satisfied, it didn't exceed my expectations nor did it fall short of them. There was no original story to be seen like I have heard previously so I wasn't expecting one, so in the end, I was entertained by the CG spectacle. It certainly wasn't a bad story, and like Raisa said, it does have some heart to it, but I would say that something like Pixar has pulled this off far better. I think the best description I've heard someone say is that it's Dances with Wolves meets Fern Gully.

Avatar is what it is, great CG with a competently told story, take it or leave it.

[MysterD]

Yeah. I'm going to go see it again this weekend. It's just cool. I'm really curious to see what he's going to do with this universe that he's created. I want to know more about the planet, the plant life, and the animals. And I want to know more about the Na'vi, and the different tribes.

It's James Cameron, he isn't known for making super original movies. He's known for making good ones, except maybe his first two or so. Although I disliked Titanic. Just wasn't feeling the love story. Not to say that the movie was bad. It was actually very good. I just got bored with the love story.

Titanic did NOT need to be 3 hours.

The love story portion was boring as it was - it could've been summed up in 25 minutes and been a much better film.

BTW, after the ship got into deep shit, the movie really began to kick all kinds of major ass.

Aliens, T1, T2... some of the best movies ever made. I really don't get the hatred... I really truly don't get it. I mean there are easily bigger jackass directors... like Brett Rattner for example.

T2 was freakin' awesome.

[Pugnate]

I think hatred is too harsh of a word. A lot of this mostly has to do with the movie's hype which I do find a little annoying. Why so much excitement over some nice CG? We all know that CG alone doesn't make something worth watching. So yea, I do see Que's point, if he doesn't like CG, he will not like this movie.

I am not talking about hatred for Avatar, but hatred for James Cameron.

edit:

Just did a quick search:

I think we all hate Ubisoft and James Cameron is a colossal tool.

Now that's some fucking crap.  James Cameron needs to die.  By a sword.  And he can spray his blood everywhere in comic fashion.

Why do you hate Cameron -- aside from Titanic? (OK so that was a big one)

I think he's an overrated egomaniac who has produced very little work of actual value.

[Raisa]

Actually, I thought Titanic was kind of terrible.  It had its moments, but there were a ton of inconsistencies with the script, some very bad acting (the lead gal was good, but a lot of the others were awful), and what I thought were some questionable cinematographic choices made.  I was never a huge fan of Cameron, but I think Titanic was about when I decided he should go find another job.

it was terrible. not kind of. but i guess if it wasn't made, we wouldn't have a kate winslet.

and to your earlier post, transformers was bad, i walked out on that one. they kind of ruined the cartoons.

i walked out on 2012 too

[Quemaqua]

I think you guys take a lot of what I say too seriously.  My gag on here has always been that I'm an angry bastard, and I play up a lot of this stuff.  Of course there's truth behind it all, but I don't generally feel so strongly when it comes to stupid shit like this (though I usually do about more serious stuff).  I don't really hate Cameron, I just don't like him as a person and I think he's totally thrown away his career on bullshit.  He once made good movies, but that time is not now.

But really... don't take it all so seriously.  It's the internet, we come to vent and screw around.  Maybe I've trolled this thread a little too much, but it's true... these really are the kinds of films I just really, really don't like. Generally speaking.  Though you guys get a lot of residual annoyance that spills over from work all the time.  People bug me about politics and popular shit and it gets to me after a while.  "Omg, have you seen Avatar yet?" is a common question, and it does kind of make you want to punch someone after a while.

[scottws]

I think you guys take a lot of what I say too seriously.  My gag on here has always been that I'm an angry bastard, and I play up a lot of this stuff.  Of course there's truth behind it all, but I don't generally feel so strongly when it comes to stupid shit like this (though I usually do about more serious stuff).  I don't really hate Cameron, I just don't like him as a person and I think he's totally thrown away his career on bullshit.  He once made good movies, but that time is not now.

Thrown his career away on bullshit?  You have got to be kidding.  The guy is amazingly rich, claims directorship of the highest grossing movie of all time, and might just be the most well known action director ever with some true legends under his belt (already mentioned in this thread).

You may not like him or his movies, but you are flat out wrong if you think he has thrown his career away.  Hm... be a truck driver or make millions of dollars, become ridiculously famous (a legend, really), and be known for helping to create several of the most memorable action movies of all time...  Yeah, he definitely made the wrong choice.  

Also, I'd like to point out that you seem to indicate that Titanic was the beginning of some downward trend for James Cameron.  Maybe you don't realize this, but Titanic was his second-to-last movie and you haven't seen his last one so I don't know what you are basing this off of.

But really... don't take it all so seriously.  It's the internet, we come to vent and screw around.  Maybe I've trolled this thread a little too much, but it's true... these really are the kinds of films I just really, really don't like. Generally speaking.  Though you guys get a lot of residual annoyance that spills over from work all the time.  People bug me about politics and popular shit and it gets to me after a while.  "Omg, have you seen Avatar yet?" is a common question, and it does kind of make you want to punch someone after a while.

I find it odd that punching someone for asking if you have seen Avatar or any other such inane question even crosses your mind for a split second.

[Quemaqua]

When you're asked the same question a billion times because you're automatically expected to like something everyone else does, and are forced to listen to a bunch of cackling hens go on and on about it day in and day out like they do with anything popular, you'll probably feel otherwise.

In regards to the other topic, you and I don't have a great deal in common, but here it's more obvious than probably anywhere else.  Popular success and money don't mean a great deal to me, either personally or as far as respecting someone else's accomplishments.  I would never say that simply because you're rich you've done something worthwhile.  In fact, many rich people have done the equivalent of absolutely nothing with their lives unless you count making money as some sort of admirable pursuit, which I don't.  That makes me sound like a hippy, but it doesn't mean I don't respect businesspeople.  I just respect them more when they do something they love and thereby achieve success, rather than when they set out to do something merely with the goal of making money.

What I'm talking about is artistic merit.  I don't think we need to debate this, as given your prior statements, I'm sure we don't see eye to eye on the subject in any way.  I don't like the guy and I don't like what he's done with his career.  I started to like him less as he went, then he stopped making movies to do his documentary thing, and now he's back with a movie that looks awful to me.  I don't see that there should be any mystery there.

Anyway, it's just an opinion.  If you don't like it, don't listen to it.  I never even tried to get this far into it.  I don't see why I should have to quantify every last goddamn detail of why I do or don't like something anyway.  What's the big fucking deal?

[scottws]

You don't know anything about James Cameron if you think his aspirations in movie-making were all about making money, especially in relation to Avatar but also past movies like Terminator and Terminator 2.  It doesn't matter anyway, I'm not trying to force you to respect him.  I was just pointing out your asinine comments about his career.

Look, here's the deal.  Wouldn't it be easier to say that you just don't like James Cameron and therefore aren't interested in Avatar, or don't think Avatar looks interesting enough to spend your money or time on and leave it at that?  Instead, we have to listen to you, multiple times, drone on about what a piece of crap you think James Cameron and Avatar are, even though you haven't even seen the aforementioned movie.  We have to listen to you make ludicrous statements such as "[James Cameron has] totally thrown away his career on bullshit".

You are basically trolling this thread over and over.  I admit that I've been guilty of the same in the past, but I try to be conscious of it and not come into threads and take a big ol' steaming shit in them anymore, much less multiple times.

Someone wise once said, "There is a difference between having a strong opinion, and forcing your opinion on others".

[Pugnate]

it was terrible. not kind of. but i guess if it wasn't made, we wouldn't have a kate winslet.

and to your earlier post, transformers was bad, i walked out on that one. they kind of ruined the cartoons.

i walked out on 2012 too

I am a big transformers fan.. so I have to ask... have you seen the old cartoons lately? They are TERRIBLE. The cartoon movie by some miracle was quite decent, but a few years ago I bought the first few seasons of the show and I was completely shocked.

What I'm talking about is artistic merit. 

I am not trying to badger you or anything. I am trying to have a friendly discussion on this because you've mentioned you are on a different level than people like Scary_tooth and Scottws when it comes to movies. That's why it just confuses me when you talk about artistic merit. I thought the two T2 movies and Aliens had landmark moments when it came to film-making. There was plenty of artistry in those three pictures alone.

Popular success and money don't mean a great deal to me, either personally or as far as respecting someone else's accomplishments.  I would never say that simply because you're rich you've done something worthwhile.  In fact, many rich people have done the equivalent of absolutely nothing with their lives unless you count making money as some sort of admirable pursuit, which I don't.  That makes me sound like a hippy, but it doesn't mean I don't respect businesspeople.  I just respect them more when they do something they love and thereby achieve success, rather than when they set out to do something merely with the goal of making money.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that, but then we aren't talking about Girls gone Wild.

I don't judge the first two Terminator movies and Aliens by the amount of money they made at the box office. It would be insulting to assume that anyone liked those films because of the box office.

The other thing is that no one here seems to be really fond of Titanic either, and we all would be had it solely been about how much money it made.

[Quemaqua]

Well, I apologize if everything I said can only be interpreted as trolling, scott.  I was just offering my opinion at first, then I was just poking fun (we had been talking about it on IRC as well, so sometimes I forget others don't have that context), but then people kept asking questions about why I thought the movie looked stupid when they thought it looked cool, so I was just trying to respond and say why.  You were asking if I had legitimate reasons or just didn't like it because it was popular, even... so I was trying to give reasons.  Also note that I never said his career was all about making money, but that was the defense you offered when I said I questioned where he'd gone.  Just because his personal goals didn't meet my own expectations doesn't mean I expect others to agree or that he should suddenly have some epiphany that he's been doing it all wrong, but that's partly why I personally don't like him anymore.  Plus I saw a number of interviews and such with him that made him seem like a pretty gigantic dick... I don't know if that's true since I don't know him from a hole in the ground, but it was enough to turn me off considering the surrounding circumstances.

It's also worth noting that half of this thread was about 3D stuff in general and nothing to do with Avatar or Cameron at all.  Just because I happen to have a negative opinion about that doesn't mean it should automatically count as trolling on the movie... I was just trying to say what turns me off about the trend toward these kinds of movies.  My comment about all the other movies that had the same plot was perhaps ill-advised, and that was partly because we'd just been discussing it in IRC and I didn't think about how it sounded before I posted it.  I should have made a real comment rather than just being an ass about it.

Anyway... what's done is done.  Sorry if I spoiled the thread.  I'll leave it be going forward.

[Ghandi]

OMG, have you guys seen Avatar yet?

[Pugnate]

You mean that show on Nickelodeon?

[MysterD]

I caught Avatar in 3D today.

For now, I think some of these guys here can sum up my thoughts...

I don't care what anyone says - that 3D shit was fucking unreal.

Just got home after watching Avatar in 3D. Frickin' awesome movie. The 3D effects were amazing. Coupled with the incredible quality (story, plot, conflict, CGI, special effects, everything) of the movie it was a great experience. Loved every second of it.

[Ghandi]

I just saw this in 3D as well. The 3D was really cool, and the CGI in this movie is unreal. The plot was pretty weak, though. Very predictable.

[MysterD]

I just saw this in 3D as well. The 3D was really cool, and the CGI in this movie is unreal. The plot was pretty weak, though. Very predictable.

I didn't think the plot and characters were weak. I just thought it was predictable and felt like it has been done before.

I definitely agree w/ you about the 3D and CGI - I've never seen anything like that in my life of going to the movies.

[Quemaqua]

Sorry.  I just fucking had to.  I'll leave now, I swear to god.  I mean... it's relevant to the discussion of plot, right?

[PyroMenace]

Hahahaha, thats exactly what the movie is.

[Pugnate]

I haven't seen it yet, but I must say there are plenty of parallels to Pocahontas.

[scottws]

I never saw Pocohontas.  I thought Avatar was thematically very similar to Dances With Wolves.

[MysterD]

Despite it's messages, experience, and whatever else it's trying to portray...
It's STILL just a movie, dammit.
Nothing to get depressed or suicidal over.
WTH is wrong w/ some people?

[Quemaqua]

Page not found.

[MysterD]

Page not found.

Link worked for me. 
Retry.

[Pugnate]

What the....

[Quemaqua]

That's fucking retarded.

[Cobra951]

CNN linking has been giving that that problem too sometimes.  They must be having some issues.