Topic: Greetings From Windows 8

[scottws]

I upgraded to Win8 on my work laptop. One of the first things I did was install Start8 because the Modern UI Start menu is just crap for non-touch devices. The OS seems fine for traditional use after making that change.

On my laptop, I noticed that some things were much snappier on Windows 8 vs Windows 7 and I have been using a SSD the whole time. But some things are slower. For some reason, Notepad++ lags badly for several seconds when I switch back to it after using another application. Also, connecting to my work's wireless network is much slower than it used to be and frequently times out.

In the end, I don't really see much reason to upgrade to Windows 8 from Windows 7 unless you can take advantage of a touch interface.

[Xessive]

The Modern UI is Win8's most touted feature, but for people like us it's the least used and most unappealing (despite its attractive appearance).

In my experience, it seems Win8 has definitely improved many things in terms of OS operations, but I haven't noticed any significant change between it and Win7 with regards to networking, except of course the User Settings Sync options. I don't connect to a work network as you do, Scott, so I wouldn't know how much that has been affected or deteriorated as in your case. Gonna have to do some testing on that front.

For home networking it definitely works great. The User Settings Sync feature I mentioned comes in handy since I have multiple PCs running, three of which I have set up Win8 on: my Asus G74, my old but recently-revived HTPC, and a laptop. Having my interface settings sync across all three certainly makes life easier, not to mention remote operating and management.

Oh that reminds, completely unrelated topic, but apparently Steam has implemented some basic remote management for any PCs you have authorized (logged in on and confirmed via e-mail code). For example, I purchased a game during the sales while on my phone, it gave me the option to remotely install to my Asus G74 since Steam was authorized on it. I got home, game was ready to go! ... I'm easily amused.

[gpw11]

I upgraded to Win8 on my work laptop. One of the first things I did was install Start8 because the Modern UI Start menu is just crap for non-touch devices. The OS seems fine for traditional use after making that change.

On my laptop, I noticed that some things were much snappier on Windows 8 vs Windows 7 and I have been using a SSD the whole time. But some things are slower. For some reason, Notepad++ lags badly for several seconds when I switch back to it after using another application. Also, connecting to my work's wireless network is much slower than it used to be and frequently times out.

In the end, I don't really see much reason to upgrade to Windows 8 from Windows 7 unless you can take advantage of a touch interface.

I agree.  I've been setting up my mom's laptop and decided to install Classic Shell for the start menu.  Combined with desktop mode this makes it almost just like a Windows 7 machine, but there are still some really annoying things about it, such as the fact that programs are split into "apps" and "programs" and the ui for all the "apps" absolutely sucks if you don't have a touch interface. I actually had to go, uninstall the Skype app and use a different download link on their site other than the default one they gave me when they detected Windows 8.  All because I wanted a desktop shortcut...which I could not figure out how to do with an "app" instead of a "program".  The fuck?

[Xessive]

I agree.  I've been setting up my mom's laptop and decided to install Classic Shell for the start menu.  Combined with desktop mode this makes it almost just like a Windows 7 machine, but there are still some really annoying things about it, such as the fact that programs are split into "apps" and "programs" and the ui for all the "apps" absolutely sucks if you don't have a touch interface. I actually had to go, uninstall the Skype app and use a different download link on their site other than the default one they gave me when they detected Windows 8.  All because I wanted a desktop shortcut...which I could not figure out how to do with an "app" instead of a "program".  The fuck?

Yeah, the "apps" are all their stuff intended for tablets. You can only acquire them through the Microsoft Marketplace or Store or whatever the Hell it's called now. They are all fullscreen experiences, which is, needless to say, a nuisance for desktop users.

You should be able to download Skype v6 directly from www.skype.com though (that's what I prefer to use). I installed the Skype app on my HTPC to check out how it is on a TV Fullscreen.. feels like a B-movie spy briefing.

On my G74, my Win8 experience is completely devoid of Modern UI. Never have to touch it or its apps unless I specifically go to it via the Start8 menu item. The only annoyances were at the very beginning when filetype defaults were set to the Modern UI apps but on launch it asks if I want to keep it as default or choose an alternative. A one time thing, easily dealt with. Right now it feels like a refined Win7.

I left my HTPC (which is almost exclusively in XBMC anyway) and laptop with Win8 defaults so I can continue to gauge the differences in the UI experiences.

[gpw11]

Yeah, the Skype site actually redirected me to the market or whatever.  I eventually uninstalled the app version and found the desktop one on their site.  Thanks.


And is Start8 the way to go?  I was recommended Classic Shell, but there's still room for improvement.

[scottws]

In my opinion, Start8 completely brings back the Win7 desktop experience. The Start menu is identical to the one in Win7. It also takes you straight to the desktop after login.

[Xessive]

In my opinion, Start8 completely brings back the Win7 desktop experience. The Start menu is identical to the one in Win7. It also takes you straight to the desktop after login.

In agreement with Scott, Start8 is awesome.

It gives you a lot of options, including (as Scott mentioned) the boot straight into Desktop. It also has the feature of generating a Start menu that is based on the Start Screen but only occupies a fraction of your screen, making it effectively a Win8 start menu rather than screen. You get to choose the sizes too! Aside from that it allows you to control how the lower left corner gesture works when in the Desktop or in the Start Screen. Pretty handy overall and enriches my love for Stardock.

[Quemaqua]

I've been tempted to make the upgrade after hearing about performance boosts. My rig is showing many signs of aging.

[Xessive]

I've been tempted to make the upgrade after hearing about performance boosts. My rig is showing many signs of aging.

It definitely showed some improvement for me on my old HTPC, however based on forum threads and user feedback the degree varies greatly depending on hardware configuration. The general consensus seems to be that if your system is already running Vista or Win7 it will handle Win8 really well, with the exceptions being certain CPUs that lack very specific functionality.

According to Microsoft, the min. reqs for Win 8 are:
Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with support for PAE, NX, and SSE2 (more info)
RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)
Hard disk space: 16 GB (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit)
Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver

However, my old Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 (on my HTPC) does not have NX support. I was still able to get Win8 running but I don't have access CPU-based security, which was always the case anyway. No love lost there. It's got an old but still relevant Nvidia GeForce 880GTS 320MB which helps it run very smoothly at 1080p. It can also really do well as a basic gaming rig for 2009 titles and earlier, and of course retros and indies!

EDIT:
Btw, here's an article that might come in handy:
How to optimize Windows 8 on old hardware

[Xessive]

ArsTechnica weighs in with some Start Menu options in a helpful article "Help! I've got Windows 8 and I miss my Start menu!"

[Xessive]

Pokki just upped-the-ante with their idea of a Start Menu for Win8 which includes its own app store!

[idolminds]

So I'm still sorta on the fence, leaning towards just biting the bullet and grabbing it while its still on sale. Probably wont install it until after I beat Borderlands 2 just to make sure I dont screw that up, though I will remember to back up my saves.

Ugh...so much stuff to back up.

EDIT: Ok, think I got most of the important stuff backed up except the save games. Those I'll get closer to when I actually switch over. Also gives me time to remember the stuff I've probably forgotten to back up.

[idolminds]

Win8 people might want to check this out.

Basically, ModernMix allows Windows 8 owners to run all of the Modern apps such as Netflix, Xbox Music and more on the desktop, along with the ability to resize those apps in a window. You can even pre-set the Modern app window sizes so they stay the same size every time you launch the app. You can also pin the Modern apps on the desktop taskbar for a quick launch. Finally, the Modern apps running under ModernMix have minimal, maximum and close buttons on top, just like regular desktop Windows programs.

[scottws]

So I've pretty much come to hate Windows 8.  I have tons of problems with it, though to be fair it could be caused by Start8, immature Windows 8 drivers for a machine built for Windows 7, or the fact that I upgraded from Windows 7 rather than doing a reinstall.

Even without the problems I have, I definitely feel that Windows 8 is a completely unnecessary upgrade unless you have a touchscreen.  In fact, in many ways I think that it is worse than Windows 7 as a (non-touch) desktop or laptop operating system.

[Quemaqua]

Heather has it on her laptop. Seems buggy as fuck to me. I was considering it after reading some positive stuff, but no way I'm touching the thing at this point. I'm happy with 7.

[Xessive]

I heart Stardock!

Damn, Scott. What kind of problems are you having?

I agree that if you already have Windows 7 there's no real need to go for Windows 8. That said, the way I'm using Windows 8 I don't need to experience the "touch" parts of the interface at all. It looks and feels like a refined Windows 7, including improved resource management and the few improved desktop applications (Task Manager, file transfers, etc.).

I've got one system running on an upgrade from Win7 and the other running on a fresh installation. While I haven't experienced any major issues with the upgraded one, I prefer the cleaner appeal with the fresh one, without any excess or residue from a prior OS.

[Pugnate]

I have experienced zero bugs. I only did feel some when I installed it and selected to keep Windows 7 programs during the upgrade options. That was a big mistake and I had to reinstall.

[scottws]

Damn, Scott. What kind of problems are you having?

Most of the time when I log in, all I see is the desktop background, the Computer desktop icon, the Start8 icon in the taskbar, the taskbar itself, and the clock.  When it is in this state, i can't do anything.  If I mouse over the taskbar it just displays the hourglass. It takes about a minute to a minute and a half to show the rest of the desktop and for me to be able to do anything at all; however, even after this I have no sound or network icons in the system tray and I have to manually restart explorer.exe to get them back. This is all with a SSD which flew under Win7.

IE10 frequently gets in a state where it is completely frozen for up to two minutes. It does unfreeze eventually. Firefox has no issues.

I hate how clicking a mailto: link opens the Modern UI Mail app, which I didn't even configure, rather than Outlook 2013.

I really, really hate Modern UI on my traditional laptop. It really has no place in the non-touch world and I should never have to see or use it.

[Xessive]

Most of the time when I log in, all I see is the desktop background, the Computer desktop icon, the Start8 icon in the taskbar, the taskbar itself, and the clock.  When it is in this state, i can't do anything.  If I mouse over the taskbar it just displays the hourglass. It takes about a minute to a minute and a half to show the rest of the desktop and for me to be able to do anything at all; however, even after this I have no sound or network icons in the system tray and I have to manually restart explorer.exe to get them back. This is all with a SSD which flew under Win7.

IE10 frequently gets in a state where it is completely frozen for up to two minutes. It does unfreeze eventually. Firefox has no issues.

There's definitely something wrong there. It doesn't seem like a hardware issue. It could be a registry problem, judging from the symptoms you mentioned. t definitely should not be operating like that.

I hate how clicking a mailto: link opens the Modern UI Mail app, which I didn't even configure, rather than Outlook 2013.

I really, really hate Modern UI on my traditional laptop. It really has no place in the non-touch world and I should never have to see or use it.

Yeah, the defaults always go to the stupid Modern UI apps, like viewing images, but once you change the default it should be fine. Specifically, the MAILTO protocol can be changed in Control Panel then Default Programs; you can either set Outlook as your default program for all mail operations or you can click on "associate a file type or protocol..." and only set MAILTO to default in Outlook.

It just sucks that by default Win8 always tries to force feed you the Modern UI apps.

[MysterD]

Tweaktown -> Windows 8.1 will bring back Start Menu; satisfaction level currently for Win 8 is around Vista levels (ouch!).

[Xessive]

Tweaktown -> Windows 8.1 will bring back Start Menu; satisfaction level currently for Win 8 is around Vista levels (ouch!).

Correction: it will only add a start button not the start menu. The start button will effectively only take you to the start screen. Apparently the biggest issue with Win8 interface is people are having a hard time getting to the start screen and don't know where to click to do it by just looking at the screen.

My opinion: too little, too late. Other start button and full start menu options are readily available. MS should be focusing on improving the experience by making the Start Screen a more useful place to be compared to the desktop. It doesn't even display the time and date.

[PyroMenace]

So you can download Windows 8.1 now from the store app which I did a little bit ago. I effectively hated the Start screen but I'm going to try again with this latest update and see if I can adjust better to it since its basically still there but small changes were made to make it more something like Windows 7. I was using Start8 before but I uninstalled it before this update. Here's how my desktop looks with the start screen now. I pretty much removed most of the stuff it defaults on and customized it to something I would usually click on if there was a start menu.



Oh jeez, I guess the boards auto resized it. Here's the actual image size.

[Quemaqua]

Looks nice. I found that other interface completely unusable. Heather's got it on her laptop and has sort of gotten halfway used to it, but even she gets totally lost at times. And man, talk about bloat. There's so much fucking packed-in BS with Windows 8 it's not even funny.

[Cools!]

Pyro, where can I get that background image?

[PyroMenace]

I've been getting my backgrounds from the Star Citizen website, the concept art on there is some awesome sci-fi stuff.

[Cools!]

Sweet, thanks!

[Cobra951]

I just found this ad for "the new Windows" in my inbox.  No mention of numbers.  I guess they're trying to get away from the Win-8 stigma by downplaying the number.

That does look more palatable.  I'm still not buying a new PC, but at least I won't cringe so much if I end up having to.

[scottws]

I'm going to be trying a new install of Windows 8.1 on my (non-touch) work laptop.  It has Windows 8 now which was an upgrade from Windows 7.  I have a lot of problems related to networking and power utilization.  For instance, after resuming from sleep, I have to wait 3-5 minutes before networking works.  Sometimes I have to reboot to get it to work.  Also, when the screen sleeps, for some reason something in the laptop really starts working.  The fan runs at full speed and it's not just a bug that make the fan run full speed; it pumps out a lot of heat.

I'm hoping that a fresh install of Windows 8.1 fixes these problems.  I'll probably keep using Start8 instead of the Windows Start screen regardless of its improvements.  If I still have problems I am going to go back to Windows 7, which worked flawlessly before upgrading to 8.

[idolminds]

This article is useful.





Ok not really, but I had to share.

[Cobra951]

TL;DR:

Steve Hogarty 1 Day ago

Nope, in all seriousness I don't believe there's any real reason to pay to upgrade from Windows 7 yet.

[Xessive]

Since my curiosity often gets the better of me, I decided to run some experiments on a Zotac ZBOX, which is a HTPC with an Nvidia ION chipset, 2GB RAM. Basically, it's not powerhorse of a system and it gets the job done for basic needs. Think Netbook in the formfactor of a tiny box you can hang on the back of your monitor or TV.



Initially, we got this little box in 2009 and it had XP set up on it. It was clearly a "bare essentials" kind of system. You can browse but it was choppy, and you could watch standard definition (SD) videos with no trouble, but run an HD video on it and you could see it struggle and sweat.

A while back I set up Win7 on it and it was performaing surprisingly better than XP. It could handle the "Aero" look but it certainly did better with the classic look. I switched the resolution down to 1366x768 to compensate. It was clearly a low-end system but it got the job done.

I installed XBMC and set it up as a multimedia HTPC, but even XBMC chugged a bit on it. Overall, it was a passable user experience and you could watch stuff on it with relative ease.

Anyway, down to current events, I just decided to wipe it and I installed Win8.1 on it.

Holy monkey.. This is where the "behind the scenes" enhancement of Win8's architecure really shows. The ZBOX is performing markedly better than I had ever seen, even at 1080p. I am thoroughly impressed with how smooth it's running compared to before (with WinXP and Win7). XBMC is a lot smoother too.

With the ION chipset, this system is basically an equivalent to a tablet or other portable device, which Win8 was built to run on as well. There's definitely a lot to be said for Windows 8.1 that's not on the surface. I suppose I have to admit that something good for PCs came from the industry-wide push for portable devices.

Next up, I'm gonna test it out on an HP mini 210-2060 with an Intel Atom chipset, 1GB RAM, which came originally with Windows 7 Starter (WTF) but currently has Ubuntu 14.04 running on it.

[scottws]

I like Windows 8.1.  I still don't like the Modern UI part of it and use Start8, but is basically like a better Windows 7 to me.

[Cobra951]

Whatever happened to the reported return of the Start screen (officially)?  Is that update still coming?

[Xessive]

I like Windows 8.1.  I still don't like the Modern UI part of it and use Start8, but is basically like a better Windows 7 to me.

Yeah, the Modern UI side of things are pretty much wasted. I am using the Start screen though, for all intents and purposes it does technically function just like the start menu, I just line up all my shortcuts there. FOr the life of me I don't understand why you can't at least see the clock there!

Whatever happened to the reported return of the Start screen (officially)?  Is that update still coming?

Well, the Start screen is still there but I think you're referrring to the return of the Start menu. That update is still not out. The current rumour is that it will be part of the next major update, perhaps Windows 8.2.

The changes in 8.1 are subtle but they do make a difference especially for desktop users. I like the fact that now prioritizing the desktop is the default and you don't need third-party software to make your PC work the way you want it.

[Cobra951]

Well, the Start screen is still there but I think you're referrring to the return of the Start menu. That update is still not out. The current rumour is that it will be part of the next major update, perhaps Windows 8.2.

Yeah, that's what I meant.  Thanks.