Author Topic: Greetings From Windows 8  (Read 23951 times)

Offline Xessive

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Greetings From Windows 8
« on: Saturday, August 04, 2012, 10:42:54 AM »
Ok, so I'm finally messing around with Win8. I've installed a copy of the MSDN released RTM.

Am I impressed? Well, that depends entirely on perspective. The UI changes certainly make it more efficient for the average consumer. It looks snazzy and it is smooth. As a desktop user, let's just say Win7 is where it's at.

The Metro Start menu is at the core of Win8 and it gets in the way when you're trying to simply use your PC in a more traditional sense. The interface is clearly designed for touch.

Hitting the WIN key on the keyboard brings up the Metro Start, alternatively if you bring the mouse to the bottom left corner a thumbnail of the Metro Start screen pops up and you can click it. What's surprisingly irritating is that it runs its own set of apps, for example I installed Chrome (since it is my current preferred browser) and running it from the desktop opens it in the desktop, but if I run it from Metro Start it will open a separate Chrome window that's suited to Metro (doesn't have the 3 buttons on the top right) So now I have two Chromes open. And Alt-tabbing doesn't go through all your currently open apps. Alt-tabbing while in desktop lets you tab between your current desktop apps but alt-tabbing in Metro lets you swap between the open Metro apps. It is as one journalist so succinctly put it "schizophrenic."

It's like, no IT IS having two interfaces installed over one another on one system and they're fighting for your attention. It can be infuriating.

Windows 8 Metro is probably great for the average/casual consumer. It is a terrible ordeal for the intermediate-advanced PC user. SO, yeah.. My first impression I'm inclined to agree with Gabe Newell and Brad Wardell. Also, I cannot for the life of me figure out how to switch tabs in Metro IE. When I create a new tab using Ctrl+T, the tab lists pops up for a couple of seconds then disappears even if I hover over it. I'm gonna have to look it up online to figure out how to view my tabs using the mouse. That's not a good sign.

Anyway, I'm gonna keep messing with it and see if I ever adapt to the madness.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #1 on: Saturday, August 04, 2012, 10:48:30 AM »
*Sigh*  I've changed my mind.  I won't accept Win 8 casually, as I planned to.  It will become like Vista after XP, something for me to avoid if at all possible.  That makes me wonder if I should look into a new PC soon, somehow, before 8 starts to take over new PCs in the market.  Is there any info on how aggressive MS will be with PC makers on replacing 7 with 8 on future hardware?

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #2 on: Saturday, August 04, 2012, 01:09:53 PM »
*Sigh*  I've changed my mind.  I won't accept Win 8 casually, as I planned to.  It will become like Vista after XP, something for me to avoid if at all possible.  That makes me wonder if I should look into a new PC soon, somehow, before 8 starts to take over new PCs in the market.  Is there any info on how aggressive MS will be with PC makers on replacing 7 with 8 on future hardware?
They seem pretty adamant on making Windows 8 THE operating system on all new OEMs.

I'm sure there will be all sorts of tweaks to get WIn8 to work the way we want it to; but it says a lot that we would have to resort to third-party software and crafty tweaks just to get the base UI to work the way we need. With previous iterations of Windows third-party software and tricks were for advanced users and customizing Windows not for simply interacting with it on a basic level.

It's certainly gonna take a lot of getting used to, especially with the uber-touch-oriented-a-la-duplo interface.

Btw, I discovered another little trick to add Desktop shortcuts into the Metro Start, which will launch whatever desktop app you choose from Metro directly into the desktop. It just further supports the notion that the UI is disjointed, to say the least.

Btw, I'm still trying to figure out how to use Metro IE without keystrokes or keyboard shortcuts. Amazingly enough, everything is now tied to the right-click.  That's right, the ubiquitous right-click context menu has now been replaced with an action that brings up the address bar and the tabs at the top. All good and dandy but now the question is how the F do I bring up the context menu? The simple answer is you don't. Rather, you don't necessarily have to. The right-click is now a context-sensitive action.  That means that when you right-click on blank space you get the tabs/address bar etc. but if you highlight text or right click on specific items you get a context menu with relevant options to those specific items i.e. cut/paste or undo.

Again, most of the stuff involving Metro is just a matter of getting used to it. The problem lies in how distant they've made the Desktop mode. It's like they're trying to make it redundant despite its undeniable functionality. Speaking of which, it seems they've gone out of their way to make the Desktop mode unappealing. They've completely removed the "Aero" style, replacing it with a very flat "template" style. It doesn't even really carry much of the "Metro" feel, it just looks like a design template for UI skin developers with dynamic color schemes. At first I thought it could be an incomplete part but I remember that in the Release Preview it was in fact Aero underneath.

Anyway, back to exploring.

Offline scottws

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #3 on: Saturday, August 04, 2012, 02:32:27 PM »
I read something recently that said they felt that Aero, the overall Windows XP, Vista, and 7 look, and the Office 2007/2010 look just simply had too much in the way of distractions in the chrome and they wanted to make it very clean.  So that's why it looks like a basic template now.  I'm not supporting or defending the design, just repeating what I read.

In a way, it sounds to me sort of like what Google did between Android 2.3 and 4.0.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #4 on: Saturday, August 04, 2012, 07:29:45 PM »
@Xessive
I know you're trying to give Win 8 a chance as it is and all...
But, do you think you might eventually wind up using Start8 or Classic Shell mods for Win8?

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #5 on: Saturday, August 04, 2012, 08:31:30 PM »
Yeah, I get their design philosophy and I do agree that they should have dump Aero in favour of the minimalistic Metro look but it looks and feels half-baked. For example, one minor thing, they brought back titlebar text (talk about retro), the window frames have no transparency at all and the text is always black, even when you change the window frame colours the text colour never adapts. I like black frames but all text is black and the the 3 frame buttons (_□X) also fade into it (except X since it's red). So I switched it to a light colour (white-grey) which works out ok.

EDIT:
I just wish they had done something more stylish, that fits in with the new minimalistic appeal and also feels complete.

And D, later I might consider installing something to remedy the situation. I'm gonna hold off on that for now. I want to take in the vanilla experience first and gauge how effective this new UI really is.

I don't mind the new Start screen, other than the fact that it occupies the entire screen. The thing I don't like though is this "hot spot" gesture system they've got going on; which seems to take some cues from MacOS. There's the bottom-left for Start, top-left for switching between active apps but if you swing the mouse slightly down from that corner it brings up a sidebar with the thumbnails of all the active apps, then there's top-right for the right sidebar which includes a Start button, search, Share button, and on the bottom is a list of buttons for customization and shutdown. Again, these hot spots make perfect sense for touch but swinging a mouse around is not ideal. It's not a question of you have to hit a specific zone, I mean they're corners so you can't really miss, it's just wonky for a mouse user.

Depending on how the overall experience I may upgrade my main system come October/November.
« Last Edit: Saturday, August 04, 2012, 09:08:11 PM by Xessive »

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #6 on: Sunday, August 05, 2012, 01:34:01 AM »
haha yeah I remember them saying that they removed "Aero" because it was "juvenile". It made me laugh because it wasn't juvenile when they were pushing it so hard, was it? It sounded more like removing Aero was a technical decision so they are now putting it to being juvenile.

Offline ren

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #7 on: Sunday, August 05, 2012, 10:03:18 AM »
I'm pretty excited for Surface. Using Windows 8 on a tablet style computer sounds perfect. On a desktop though, not sure I would bother. 

Offline scottws

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #8 on: Sunday, August 05, 2012, 12:52:05 PM »
Yeah, I have to say the Surface looks pretty nice.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #9 on: Sunday, August 05, 2012, 01:58:00 PM »
Yeah, the Surface is what it's all about. Win8 makes sense that way.

On the desktop it technically works but it's inefficient compared to traditional Windows. It feels like I'm being forced to use the "shell experience" and I'm being goaded away from accessing the hard drive directly, much like an iOS device or Windows Phone.

In Win8 they've made it more difficult to just go to the drive and access folders; it's far from impossible but certainly takes some extra unnecessary steps. From a "work" perspective, Win8 slows me down. The simplicity of clicking Start, then "Computer" to access my drives is now replaced by waiting for the Start screen to come (about 1 second) but also dependant on my having placed a manual shortcut to My Computer. Alternatively, I could gesture my mouse to he top-right or bottom-right corner, then highlight Devices and let them display in the sidebar. I'll admit a lot of the changes can remedied by an adjustment in habits, but after nearly 15 years of pressing the START button to get to my folders or various tools it's tough to break the habit. I keep involuntarily bringing up the Start screen.

I mean, yes it is more organized but it's also an entire screen. Even in Win7 I rarely ever click on "All Programs" most of the functions I use are on that handy little Start menu that pops up when I click Start. I don't require a full transition animation, then an entire screen to advertise all the wonders of Windows 8 just to access my apps. I would be perfectly fine without it.

In my relatively brief experience with Win8, I'm starting to feel that the Start screen would have actually been much better as a desktop background. Keep the Win7 desktop as it is but now I have an interactive background that I can customize to work with my desktop experience. That makes sense to me. Not a disjointed, independent screen that feels more like an intrusion on my activities.

Anyway, I've tested gaming in Win8 and while games do perform well there is no integration at all with the built-in Games app. Apparently that only works with "Games For Windows Live" games. Battlefield 3 runs smoothly, and setting up a shortcut to it on the Start screen was automatic. Once I run the Start screen automatically goes away and the desktop IE loads up Battlelog. It will always load up desktop IE and not Metro IE since the latter apparently is not compatible with all IE add-ons. Certainly a noteworthy shortcoming.

Oh, and one more irritation. In Metro, you can't just close an app when you're done using it. You have to switch away and then manually close it from the tab selection by right-clicking on it and then closing it. I get why this is ok for tablets but for desktops we are the minimize or close culture. Having all apps running in fullscreen at all times is redundant to us desktoppers.

I will have to run some performance tests to gauge game performance and see the effects of having several Metro apps just sitting in the background.

The more I dig, the more I find stuff to dislike about Win8. I do actually like the Start screen, just not for a desktop. It is smooth and intuitive but it's like navigating through Windows Media Centre. Actually, that is a pretty good analogy for the UI experience. Seriously, if you have WMC on, load it up in fullscreen and use it with a mouse. It works but it will feel bulky. The Start screen is certainly smoother but exhibits a very similar "bulky" experience. Simply, it was not designed with the mouse in mind as the primary interaction method.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday, September 05, 2012, 04:09:37 AM »
Something just occurred to me. Microsoft is going to be releasing the new Windows Server 2012 alongside Windows 8 for IT professionals and network managers. Will they also have to deal with UI formerly known as Metro?

That would be a real pain in the A to handle.

It is increasingly more tedious to use with a mouse, especially when in the UI formerly known as Metro, the context menu does not appear close to the cursor, it always shows up along the bottom, usually to the far right or far left depending on the context of the right-click.

Anyway, with Windows 8 more is less: more time with Windows 8 equals less desire to use frequently.

Offline scottws

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday, September 05, 2012, 09:06:26 AM »
We are highly interested in Windows Server 2012 but not interested at all in Windows 8 here.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #12 on: Sunday, September 09, 2012, 10:27:55 AM »
After about 3-4 weeks of mucking about in Windows 8 I've uninstalled it. Its best features were the new task manager and the vastly improved file transfer management. Aside from those features I've concluded that Windows 8 (in its current iteration) is redundant and provides no valid reason to move away from Windows 7.

Incidentally, I have installed Ubuntu 12.04 on my system and it is awesome! For everyday usage, productivity, and entertainment it is more than satisfactory; it is excellent. The only thing it's missing is PC gaming.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #13 on: Saturday, September 15, 2012, 06:01:42 AM »
Maximum PC's Windows 8 Review

It's pretty much a confirmation of everything we've seen and heard so far. They also provide some hints and tips for third-party apps that can help alleviate some of the common Win8 woes (namely Metro).

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #14 on: Saturday, September 15, 2012, 12:52:16 PM »
I like how they're informing the readers that giving in to this is halfway to giving in completely, a loss of a real PC UI, replaced by a closed tablet UI, in "Windows 9" or whatever the next iteration gets called.  Seeing the battles that erupt over this should make for some great entertainment.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #15 on: Saturday, September 15, 2012, 11:55:02 PM »
I like how they're informing the readers that giving in to this is halfway to giving in completely, a loss of a real PC UI, replaced by a closed tablet UI, in "Windows 9" or whatever the next iteration gets called.  Seeing the battles that erupt over this should make for some great entertainment.
Haha yeah, bring on the popcorn!

Honestly though, I think Windows 8 would have been a much better experience in either of these scenarios:

  • Honor the classic desktop experience, keep the traditional Windows UI with the new technical enhancements. Make the desktop the focus.
       or
  • Embrace Metro completely, lose the desktop altogether, and create a brand new mode of interaction that is completely focused on the new organization that is compatible with mouse+KB configuration.

The half-ass disjointed interface is what really breaks Windows 8 and makes it a real chore to use.

Offline ren

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #16 on: Monday, October 22, 2012, 03:28:40 PM »
http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/10/windows-8-and-winrt-everything-old-is-new-again/

Half of the article is over my head but it still seems great.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #17 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 01:15:48 AM »
I've been toying around in Win8 with Stardock's Start8. The bad news? None, really. Start8 pretty much fixes all the Start Menu woes I've experienced without losing the advantages that come with Win8 and the freedom to open the interface formerly known as Metro when I feel like it; essentially making Win8 a refined Win7.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #18 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 06:27:31 AM »
That looks really good.  $5 makes it painless too.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #19 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 08:02:45 AM »
I bought Windows 8. Couldn't resist at the special price of $14 for Windows 8 pro for my region. I'll get Start 8 too. :)

Offline scottws

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #20 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 08:10:29 AM »
I've been toying around in Win8 with Stardock's Start8. The bad news? None, really. Start8 pretty much fixes all the Start Menu woes I've experienced without losing the advantages that come with Win8 and the freedom to open the interface formerly known as Metro when I feel like it; essentially making Win8 a refined Win7.
I've had my eye on that as well in case I decide to take the Win8 plunge.  I am looking at Start8 sideways though.  I had Stardock's Object Dock back when I had Vista and didn't like it much.  It seemed too bolted on top rather than part of the UI.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #21 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 08:16:35 AM »
OK, but how does that match up with what Xessive said?  It's not quite the same thing, or is it?

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #22 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 08:34:56 AM »
I am going to install it soon so I will give my opinion on if the integration feels natural or slapped on.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #23 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 09:09:15 AM »
Well, of all Stardock's UI enhancements this one certainly seems the most deeply integrated. The only part that makes it feel like it's added on is its separate configuration application, but even that has been done up in Stardock's new "Metro" style too. Either way, you'll rarely use the config once you've set it up the way you like it.

Start8 does have a little, low-resource service running in the background but its tiny footprint is practically negligible compared to the myriad of services running within Win8 anyway.

You have the choice of what type of Start menu to use as well. You could use the traditional Win7 style or actually have a miniaturized version of the Win8 Start Menu in lieu of it occupying the whole frickin' screen. It even gives you the option of choosing how your systems starts when it logs into Windows: Start Screen or Desktop, your call now. At the very least, Start8 makes the problems with the Win8 interface a question of preference rather than functionality.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #24 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 09:51:10 AM »
So the entire day was spent downloading the installation file. Eventually, it was done. The installation process was so seamless, it was almost unreal. Then came the set up process, where I entered my details, but Windows crashed!

Then it told me it couldn't install Windows 8 and it was reverting. The reverting bit took 15 scary minutes, but it was seamless. Almost as if it never happened! Amazing. I am back. Going to try again. It may have something to do with my Windows 7 being hacked. :P I don't know.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #25 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 09:53:43 AM »
Well, apparently it doesn't have anything to do with pirated Windows 7. Going to give it another shot. This time will install from Flash drive.

http://techpp.com/2012/10/26/upgrade-to-windows-8-from-illegal-windows-7/

Offline MysterD

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #26 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 10:51:41 AM »
Well, of all Stardock's UI enhancements this one certainly seems the most deeply integrated. The only part that makes it feel like it's added on is its separate configuration application, but even that has been done up in Stardock's new "Metro" style too. Either way, you'll rarely use the config once you've set it up the way you like it.

Start8 does have a little, low-resource service running in the background but its tiny footprint is practically negligible compared to the myriad of services running within Win8 anyway.

You have the choice of what type of Start menu to use as well. You could use the traditional Win7 style or actually have a miniaturized version of the Win8 Start Menu in lieu of it occupying the whole frickin' screen. It even gives you the option of choosing how your systems starts when it logs into Windows: Start Screen or Desktop, your call now. At the very least, Start8 makes the problems with the Win8 interface a question of preference rather than functionality.

NOT like many of the desktop power users want to - but can you still use Win8's Original Metro?
Start8 doesn't overwrite MS's Original Metro, does it?
If it doesn't - can you switch b/t MS's Original Metro and all of those Stardock's Start8 Features?

EDIT:
I went to Staples yesterday (to buy a few games, since some titles are $1, $2, or $5 there) - and played w/ a little bit of Win 8, since they had a few laptops set-up w/ it and all. Didn't care for Metro at all. I did like one thing - on the desktop, just typing brings up Search Menu. That saves one or two step every time from Win 7 - where you hit Start, Then go into Search bar.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #27 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 11:34:40 AM »
So the issue was some app causing a conflict that I had ignored the first time. This time I just imported nothing.

Fuck, I love this! Awesome. Just needs a few tweaks and I could really love this. I love how easy it is to switch to traditional desktop from Metro. I just want to figure out where "My Computer" is. But I have just been one for a few minutes and I love it. The apps are sweet!

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #28 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 12:21:20 PM »
This thing is blazing FAST.

OK, the Stardock thing. I feel that Start 8 app is largely unnecessary! I am hardly using the desktop actually!

Everything that was there before is still here, just in different places. I just Metro. This feel pretty awesome to me. Quite a revolution. Very very impressed. Going to be reviewing Windows 8.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #29 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 12:41:20 PM »
So here is the thing. The problem is we are used to working from the desktop. When Windows 8 wants us to work from Metro, we resist. The thing is that once you try and do that, you will realize you are having a better experience. It is really amazing. I can't stress how fast it is. And going from Metro to application, to desktop, to wherever you want to go is so fast.

Whatever you are doing. You can always take your mouse to the top right for five basic commands including search, settings, and start (metro). You can take your mouse to the top left for all the windows that are open. And you can take your mouse to the bottom left for start (metro).... unless you are on metro itself, where it will take you to the desktop if you take your mouse to the bottom left.

Now this thing is so unbelievably fast that going from app to app is FAR faster and easier than Windows 7. Once you accept that Metro is your new base of operations, and stop trying to do everything desktop, you will have a great experience.

The reason why the Stardock application doesn't make any sense (and if you have to use and accept Windows 8 to get it), is that from a design perspective, it takes away from the uniformity. There is a reason why there is no start bar in desktop. Because in essence, Metro IS your start bar, and it is a beautiful one at that. Don't think of Metro as a different application. Think of it as an massive start bar that is taking full advantage of your monitor's real estate. The fact that switching is SO fast, makes it feel that way. It is just a large beautiful intuitive Start bar.

This thing is beautifully designed. Lovely design, really.

I must admit, the first hour was a bit nuts... but I am loving it now.

Offline scottws

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #30 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 12:48:10 PM »
OK, but how does that match up with what Xessive said?  It's not quite the same thing, or is it?
Object Dock was a UI element for Windows that emulates the Mac OS X Dock to some degree.  It is not the same as Start8.

All I was trying to say is that I've previously tried one of Stardock's OS UI enhancements and I did not like it.

So here is the thing. The problem is we are used to working from the desktop. When Windows 8 wants us to work from Metro, we resist. The thing is that once you try and do that, you will realize you are having a better experience. It is really amazing. I can't stress how fast it is. And going from Metro to application, to desktop, to wherever you want to go is so fast.

Whatever you are doing. You can always take your mouse to the top right for five basic commands including search, settings, and start (metro). You can take your mouse to the top left for all the windows that are open. And you can take your mouse to the bottom left for start (metro).... unless you are on metro itself, where it will take you to the desktop if you take your mouse to the bottom left.

Now this thing is so unbelievably fast that going from app to app is FAR faster and easier than Windows 7. Once you accept that Metro is your new base of operations, and stop trying to do everything desktop, you will have a great experience.

The reason why the Stardock application doesn't make any sense (and if you have to use and accept Windows 8 to get it), is that from a design perspective, it takes away from the uniformity. There is a reason why there is no start bar in desktop. Because in essence, Metro IS your start bar, and it is a beautiful one at that. Don't think of Metro as a different application. Think of it as an massive start bar that is taking full advantage of your monitor's real estate. The fact that switching is SO fast, makes it feel that way. It is just a large beautiful intuitive Start bar.

This thing is beautifully designed. Lovely design, really.

I must admit, the first hour was a bit nuts... but I am loving it now.

I totally disagree with you.  Modern UI (formerly "Metro") is an interface clearly designed for a touch interface.  It is probably really good at that.  But it does not make good use of a mouse and keyboard.  For instance, right clicking something on the Modern UI Start menu shows some context-sensitive items spread out at the bottom of the screen.  Now I have to move my mouse all the way down there to select something.  In Windows 95 - Windows 7, a compact context-sensitive menu appeared right near your mouse pointer and it only took a very small amount of movement from the mouse to select the option you wanted.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #31 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 12:58:05 PM »
NOT like many of the desktop power users want to - but can you still use Win8's Original Metro?
Start8 doesn't overwrite MS's Original Metro, does it?
If it doesn't - can you switch b/t MS's Original Metro and all of those Stardock's Start8 Features?

EDIT:
I went to Staples yesterday (to buy a few games, since some titles are $1, $2, or $5 there) - and played w/ a little bit of Win 8, since they had a few laptops set-up w/ it and all. Didn't care for Metro at all. I did like one thing - on the desktop, just typing brings up Search Menu. That saves one or two step every time from Win 7 - where you hit Start, Then go into Search bar.

Yes, Start8 basically makes it so I use the Start Screen when I want to use it, not when it wants me to use it.

EDIT:
I agree with Scott. The Modern interface is counterproductive for mouse and keyboard. With a mouse your focal point is the cursor, you navigate it to the interface elements and contextual items need to focus on it. With touch interface it's the opposite, the focus is fixated points, the interface is built with specific hotspots for your hands.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #32 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 01:03:45 PM »
The good thing I noticed, when I was at Staples messing w/ Win 8 yesterday -- Windows + D key shortcut still takes you to straight to the Desktop. :D As someone so used to the Desktop format, that's good; especially if I did for some reason decide to buy Win 8 and then toss some icons on the Desktop.

I could see that the best thing w/ Metro UI for Win 8 is flat-out typing what you want (Search) is skipping a few steps. I type fast - so, if it find a program I wanted accurately on Win 8, that'd be the benefit for me. Seriously, when on Win 7 - I don't normally type in a letter keys just to go to an Icon that begins w/ that letter. I just click on the Icon on My Desktop. And of course, my desktop's littered w/ Icons on Win 7 here - and pretty much, Fences (FREEWARE) solved ALL of my Icon desktop complaints.

EDIT:
Yes, Start8 basically makes it so I use the Start Screen when I want to use it, not when it wants me to use it.
With Start8 installed and using Win 7 Style Menu - does hitting the Windows key on keyboard bring up Win 7 Menu? Or Metro UI?
I know, I'm asking A LOT of questions, huh? Heh.

EDIT 2:
The reason why the Stardock application doesn't make any sense (and if you have to use and accept Windows 8 to get it), is that from a design perspective, it takes away from the uniformity. There is a reason why there is no start bar in desktop. Because in essence, Metro IS your start bar, and it is a beautiful one at that. Don't think of Metro as a different application. Think of it as an massive start bar that is taking full advantage of your monitor's real estate. The fact that switching is SO fast, makes it feel that way. It is just a large beautiful intuitive Start bar.
I don't want that Massive Start Bar (Metro UI) taking up the entire screen, though - Win 7 Start Menu worked fine and didn't take up much space at all. To me, it looks ugly for a KB/mouse interface. I'm sure for a phone or tablet (with touch-screen), it'd be fine.

I often used Start Menu on Win 7 for the for a few things: the SEARCH function (especially); any recently used programs that wind-up on the left pane; and for many of the options on the Right Pane.
For getting to "Computer" - that's the icon on the Desktop. I'd guess on Win 8, it'd be best if I just typed in "Computer", if they really didn't change its name. [shrug]

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #33 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 01:15:01 PM »
That's true. Metro does take away lot of the control. I realize it is a UI designed for tablets, but by looking at it as a new style of Start menu, I am coming to appreciate it.

That said, I am spending a lot of time on the desktop installing stuff so far. Anyway, this is just the first hour, but I am really loving Windows 8 quite a bit. 

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #34 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 01:15:19 PM »
Win Start8 installed and using Win 7 Style Menu - does hitting the Windows key on keyboard bring up Win 7 Menu? Or Metro UI?
I know, I'm asking A LOT of questions, huh? Heh.
Haha no worries, dude. It's your choice. You can choose how you want your keyboard Win key to behave and even the lower-left hotspot when in Modern UI Start Screen.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #35 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 01:18:34 PM »
Yup, I like that about the Stardock app. It allows a lot of customization in that area.

Maybe I will come to appreciate the app after I really get the handle on Metro. The Winodows 8 startup it has is weird. The Windows 7 is much better. The Windows 8 where it mixes Metro feels really odd to me.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #36 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 01:23:08 PM »
Haha no worries, dude. It's your choice. You can choose how you want your keyboard Win key to behave and even the lower-left hotspot when in Modern UI Start Screen.
Good to know, just in case.

How long is Win 8 offer for $15 going on for?
I doubt I'll move to Win 8 soon - b/c what I'd really want is Win 8 Full Version, not an Upgrade Version.

EDIT:
If I was to use Start8 for Win 8...
...Small or Tall looks like the way I'd rather go w/ Win 8.
Wide and Large look like they'd take up too much real estate to suit me.
From Start8 by Stardock on what they have Metro look like for them:



Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #37 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 01:37:58 PM »
So I have been using the Stardock app for now (with Windows 7) mode and with all the items with such easy access in one start menu, I have found little reason to go back to Metro. So, I am going to uninstall this app from Stardock and see how I manage with Metro alone for a week (with the pleasure of knowing I can go back to Stardock's app).

I have been tasked with a review of Windows 8, so I think it is better to skip the Stardock app for now. I do love Metro and it is so fast that I felt that given time, I would end up thinking vanilla Windows 8 a great replacement. But with the Stardock app I am now double minded.

Is this really improving my Windows experience? I should give myself some time.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #38 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 01:47:13 PM »
The first WTF thing that makes me realize that Metro and the Star Menu are not the same. I was on Metro and clicked the Google Chrome and was confused to note that it had Facebook open, which I thought I had closed hours ago. Turns out Metro and Desktop are running the same apps separately.

Disappointing.

Edit:

So that's why I could minimize Chrome sometimes and sometimes not. On Desktop you can minimize it to see your desktop, while on Metro you are kindly like dude... where is the minimize button? This is pretty stupid, and now I understand the whole multiple personality disorder thing. You'd think that with people unaware, they could be running many more apps than necessary! It is running fast, but still.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Greetings From Windows 8
« Reply #39 on: Monday, October 29, 2012, 02:31:17 PM »
Yep, and with the Modern UI apps you can't close them instantly either. You cannot close the currently active app, instead you have to swap them out then manually close them one by one from the top-left task-switcher.

EDIT:
Also, I have noticed what I believe is a bug. When Win 8 boots up, in desktop mode, the "Touch Keyboard" is listed on my taskbar. Apparently, it's an active toolbar and no matter how many times I have unchecked it from the toolbars, each time Windows boots up the damn Touch Keyboard toolbar reactivates itself.