Topic: Batman: Arkham Knight

[Quemaqua]

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To play devil's advocate, do you actually have to respect superhero lore at all? I haven't played or beaten this game yet (I do want to play it eventually, but you know), but even superhero comics don't respect any particular order of events, Batman included. Many if not most of those storylines are self-contained experiments with the existing material, not canonical extensions of it. Nothing that happened in the course of any of these games "breaks" canon. They're all part of this particular game's own canon, which doesn't exist anywhere else. They more or less have license to do whatever they want, as far as I understand it, and I think that's more or less how comics properties have always operated, even in terms of what comics generally do themselves. No doubt there are exceptions, but I think that's generally the rule. And of course that may kill off this particular franchise, but I think that was what they'd planned to do from the get-go with this one, and since this version of Batman is their own, isn't that their prerogative? It may not make for a good ending, so I'm not speaking to whether any of this is actually good or bad or poorly done, what have you ... just that I think it's within their rights to make that choice, even if it doesn't turn out to be a very good one.

[MysterD]

@Que

Yeah, I think these days and age - in the world of different mediums of games, movies, books, franchises, sub-genres, series, sub-series, and whatnot - certain things just have their own actual canons.

Sometimes, these might overlap and a game might be right in canon with the film - i.e. say Matrix movies and Enter The Matrix game; Butcher Bay game ties right into Chronicles of Riddick movies.

I'd consider the Batman comics [which might have its own certain different canons, BTW - I don't really follow them, TBH] to be in a different canon than the Batman Arkham games.
I'd consider Nolan's Batman series of movies with Batman Begins to TDK Rises to be its own Trilogy of films with its own canon.
I'd consider Tim Burton's Batman movies to have its own canon, also.

I'd consider Batman Arkham games all in their very own canon - since they're all WB-published; yes, even Arkham Origins. AO doesn't stomp on anything Rocksteady did, storywise + character-wise - since AO takes place a bit before AA.

I'd consider the Core TR's to have nothing to do w/ what Crystal Dynamics had done.
Games made from TR Legend to TR Underworld is its own series from CD.
TR 2013 is the start of a BRAND NEW TR series from Crystal.

And since Disney doesn't want to consider KOTOR games in their overall SW canon and only consider 7 SW films canon - screw 'em. KOTOR series, for me, is in its own KOTOR canon. These games, both KOTOR 1+2, are too great for gamers to ignore.

You get the picture.

[Cobra951]

Yeah, I get that picture too.  And I don't disagree with Que's points either.  But the cavalier attitude toward established storylines is something new as of the past, oh, decade maybe?  It's lazy at best, sort of a cheap way to reinvigorate an old, well-trodden universe.  And it works, which is why I think it's happening to everything.  Nothing is sacred.  (Reminds me of the assassin's creed:  "Nothing is true.  Everything is permitted."  Basically, there are no rules.  Whatever you can get away with is acceptable.)

[Xessive]

It's been a growing trend over the past 10-15 years, recycling and remixing the old.

Creators/innovators reinvent characters and intellectual properties rather than create new ones. I think a major proponent of that is the marketing aspect of it "Batman is popular, therefore Batman sells; scrap original project, recreate as a Batman tale."

Oh and Cobra! That's not what the Creed means, my Assassin brother! Haha

As Ezio so eloquently put it (AC Revelations):

Nothing is True... is to realize that the foundations of the reality are fragile and we must be the shepherds of our own civilizations.
Everything is permitted... is to understand that we are the architects of our actions and we must live with their consequences.

But I totally get what you mean. Nothing is off limits or untouchable. Then again, that's a prominent movement in the arts in general.

[Cobra951]

Nothing is True... is to realize that the foundations of the reality are fragile and we must be the shepherds of our own civilizations.
Everything is permitted... is to understand that we are the architects of our actions and we must live with their consequences.

Hmm.  That's what I get for skipping most of Revelations.  OK, let me take those individually.

"Everything is permitted... is to understand that we are the architects of our actions and we must live with their consequences."

That's very close to what I said, no?  There are no hard-and-fast rules.  We choose what to do, and we live with what comes from our actions.  Those consequences don't come from some all-seeing transcendental being who is enforcing a rule book.  So fairness and expectation of absolute consequences don't come into play at all.  If it benefits us or what we hold dear, and the negative consequences are minimal at worst, then it was the right thing to do.

"Nothing is True... is to realize that the foundations of the reality are fragile and we must be the shepherds of our own civilizations."

Hmm.  That's definitely something else, and rather cryptic.  Or at least overly general.  Fragile foundations of reality would mean that we can interpret events in whichever way suits us, and promote that view--which is what powerful people do in our society, to benefit themselves.  For example, corporations are now entities Constitutionally entitled to free speech, and where money goes is speech.  The architect of that one died recently, a bit mysteriously.  Did a modern-day assassin have his way with him?   

[Xessive]

Hmm.  That's what I get for skipping most of Revelations.  OK, let me take those individually.

"Everything is permitted... is to understand that we are the architects of our actions and we must live with their consequences."

That's very close to what I said, no?  There are no hard-and-fast rules.  We choose what to do, and we live with what comes from our actions.  Those consequences don't come from some all-seeing transcendental being who is enforcing a rule book.  So fairness and expectation of absolute consequences don't come into play at all.  If it benefits us or what we hold dear, and the negative consequences are minimal at worst, then it was the right thing to do.

"Nothing is True... is to realize that the foundations of the reality are fragile and we must be the shepherds of our own civilizations."

Hmm.  That's definitely something else, and rather cryptic.  Or at least overly general.  Fragile foundations of reality would mean that we can interpret events in whichever way suits us, and promote that view--which is what powerful people do in our society, to benefit themselves.  For example, corporations are now entities Constitutionally entitled to free speech, and where money goes is speech.  The architect of that one died recently, a bit mysteriously.  Did a modern-day assassin have his way with him?   

I think it's safe to assume Ubisoft left "The Creed" somewhat vague and open to interpretation.

It's kinda the same with the Templars' oath "May the Father of Understanding Guide Us." The statement summarizes the belief of the Templars that the only salvation for the world is if it is united under the rule of the Templars; only then will conflict end. Or so the Templars believe.

Truth be told, I can't resist having a discussion about the Assassin's Creed universe Especially with someone I revere!

[Cobra951]

Are you trolling me, bro?    Thanks regardless.  I think quite highly of you too.

I'm nearly done with a second playthrough, and I still think this game should be a serious contender for 2015 console GotY.  (Too bad about the PC fiasco.)  It's the most perfect and complete open-world rendition of a comic-book, superhero world, so far.  Plays great as well, and I've gained a bit more mastery over the demanding, highly varied brawling controls.  I seem to like the Batmobile stuff better than most, though.  I don't care for the Riddler racing sections (or anything involving time pressure), but I do like the combat and navigation challenges.

[scottws]

I can't comment on the issue with the canon, but wanted to chime in and say my experience with this game is similar in some respects to Cobra's.  The fighting system is incredibly complex, and I really struggle in fights with a bunch of baddies, especially those ones that have those energy sticks where you have to get the context thing to show up so you can flip over them and hit them from behind.

[Cobra951]

The shielded guys are who need the stun, jump, slam down and knockout (BAAX for me) aerial attack.  Stupid things are impregnable any other way, except to destroy them--a move that requires several upgrades to get, and then only works with a full combo meter (something I rarely see, since any damage you take resets it).

For anyone electrified, you want to hit them with the electric charge.  (I guess it overloads them and shocks them.)  That's LT+B for me.  If you haven't gotten the electric charge yet, seek it out.  You can get it whenever, but you need to find it.

You don't need to wait for context prompts.  They're there as an aid in deciphering the fast-moving complexity.

[Xessive]

For anyone electrified, you want to hit them with the electric charge.  (I guess it overloads them and shocks them.)  That's LT+B for me.  If you haven't gotten the electric charge yet, seek it out.  You can get it whenever, but you need to find it.

You can also use the grappling hook on them (LT+Y), once it connects it overcharges their electric effect and then reels you in for a kick.