Topic: Dark Souls - Demon's Souls Follow up!

[Xessive]

To its credit, it's quit an accomplishment to have players so split on it! hehe

[beo]

I've now spent a bit more time with the game and am a little bit hooked. It helps to look as the game as a puzzler, rather than an RPG. You know in some games how you'll find a cheap tactic to beat a boss - well finding those "cheap" tactics seems to be the only way to get through this! Also, being very patient with my approach of even the lowliest of enemies has helped. It's still frustrating at times, but thinking outside of the box, pushing through and finally getting to the next bonfire is actually quite gratifying. Not sure if I'm going to be able to stick it out until the end, but I'm not giving up just yet.

[Xessive]

The one thing about the game I was not able to grasp (for some reason) is am I supposed to confront enemies I come across or should I just run past? I guess I worry that if I can't defeat the early encounters what chance do I stand against the rest? I'm so versed in the conventional challenge structure of games and puzzles, getting progressively more difficult as you move along. In Dark Souls I feel like a game tester gauging enemy encounters for the dev team to adjust, except with the forehand knowledge that it will never be adjusted.

[K-man]

I can't speak for Dark Souls, but in Demon's Souls everything is capable of being (and should be) defeated.  Part of the lasting appeal of the game is figuring out how to approach them.  Everything is potentially lethal.  Even when you've leveled up some, beginning enemies can still do copious amounts of damage if you're careless.

[MysterD]

Dark Souls: Prepare To Die Edition - PC Version's System Requirements.

   OS: Windows XP , Windows Vista, Windows 7, or newer
    Processor: 2.6 GHz Dual-Core
    Memory: 1 GB (XP), 2GB (Vista/7)
    Hard Disk Space: 4 GB
    Video Card: 512 MB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850 or higher, NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT or higher
    DirectX®: 9.0c
    Sound: Direct Sound Compatible
    Additional: Multiplayer requires microphone headset support

EDIT:
Eurogamer -> Multiplayer will NOT require Microphone head-set.

[idolminds]

Well hmmm...

The good news:

To cut to the chase, the frame-rate on consoles has always been a major area of complaint among Dark Souls fans, and the notorious Blight Town or New Londo Ruins areas are usually singled out as the big offenders. The implication of a PC release is obviously that all these problems can be tackled by the brute force of a faster CPU, and though there are very light hitches here and there, it's a relief to say Blight Town now plays without all the constant chugging. The improvement is staggering to those that endured the treacle-like pace of the area on PS3 and 360, already making this version a winning proposition.

And the not so good news:

There is bad news which could hit PC gamers pretty hit hard, though. While the frame-rate's rough edges have been filed down, you're still going to be playing at 30FPS out of the box, as widely rumoured. A graphics menu has been added in, but there are no obvious ways to raise the bar to the preferable 60FPS mark. In fact, options are pretty meagre overall on this front; you have the standard resolution and refresh rate settings (it does nothing to solve this), and also check-boxes to remove anti aliasing or motion blur. Barebones and to the point.

There's also something curious about the resolution too in that there's no change in clarity when attempting to crank up the settings. On close inspection, it appears that Dark Souls PC uses the very same 1024x720 internal framebuffer as the console versions, regardless of which resolution has been set in the menus. The option provided is for output resolution only; a simple courtesy to allow the game to play on most monitors, but the image quality will always remain the same. In short, PC gamers will very much be getting the genuine console experience here, right down to the pixel.

[Quemaqua]

Is this surprising? I mean this thing's been rooted in the very definition of console port. It's a bit of a shame, but not necessarily that big of a deal.

[Xessive]

Asian devs have always been notorious for bad PC ports and not-so-great interface design (with a select few exceptions).

[Pugnate]

hahahah genuine console experience down to the pixel

[idolminds]

Is this surprising? I mean this thing's been rooted in the very definition of console port. It's a bit of a shame, but not necessarily that big of a deal.

Thats what I felt. Yeah, it would have been nice to crank the res and run it at 60+FPS but oh well, it doesn't. They might have some good reasons why they can't do these things without a major engine overhaul. I mean, the locked internal res makes sense on consoles because there is never any reason to change it and it might just be hard coded, and UI elements are all in a "squished" format that takes all that into account. So to change it the entire UI would need to be redone along with the renderer...and for this port there was no way they would bother.

Its just funny reading the bitch threads online. A bummer, yes, but its not the end of the world. "OMG the PC port is terribad and I refuse to buy it unless I can run it in super high resolutions in my holodome! Back to the superior Xbox copy for me even though it does all the same shit I am now bitching about!"

[idolminds]

So I guess no retail release is confirmed.

The description states: Available on August, 24th 2012 for digital download only.

And oh shit, at the end...is that a Steam logo? "Prepare to die" indeed.....

[MysterD]

So I guess no retail release is confirmed.

The description states: Available on August, 24th 2012 for digital download only.

And oh shit, at the end...is that a Steam logo? "Prepare to die" indeed.....

GreenManGaming has DS:PTD PC listed as requiring Steam DRM; and that Online Play requires G4WL.
Gamersgate has DS:PTD PC as requiring Steamworks; and it has the G4WL on the picture of the gamebox.

I'm going to bet - this game REQUIRE both; just like Dawn of War 2 did.

WTH this game is using both services, I'll be damned if I know...

Seriously - if they are going to pick a service, they should PICK one service or the other to handle EVERYTHING.
[shrug]

[Quemaqua]

*sigh*

[Pugnate]

Is this surprising? I mean this thing's been rooted in the very definition of console port. It's a bit of a shame, but not necessarily that big of a deal.

Not to you maybe. But to most PC gamers it is. There is little point in grabbing something that's the very definition of a console port. Deal breaker.

GreenManGaming has DS:PTD PC listed as requiring Steam DRM; and that Online Play requires G4WL.
Gamersgate has DS:PTD PC as requiring Steamworks; and it has the G4WL on the picture of the gamebox.

I'm going to bet - this game REQUIRE both; just like Dawn of War 2 did.

WTH this game is using both services, I'll be damned if I know...

Seriously - if they are going to pick a service, they should PICK one service or the other to handle EVERYTHING.
[shrug]

OK full deal breaker. Steam AND G4WL? Their inexperience shows to be jumping at shadows with so much DRM.

[Quemaqua]

There are veteran PC developers who've done the same. It pretty much means a pass from me, but I didn't need it anyway. Better for me to stick with the PS3 at this point... but I was kind of hoping to eventually grab it. With Steamworks, I don't really care.

[idolminds]

There's little point in grabbing it on PC...unless you dont have a console to play it. I dunno...such people might exist.

As for Steam and GFWL...ok, I get GFWL. Saves them some effort and can use the same setup as the Xbox version. And I'm thinking the Steam shit is some miscommunication with the community. All of them yelling "Steam! Steam! Steam!" So Namco went...ok. Steam for everyone! Missing that the community actually wanted them to drop GFWL in favor of full Steamworks (which was never going to happen). Or at least, that's kinda how I see it. Either that or they are just idiots.

In either case this is a real shame. I want to get the PC version but...why? So I can deal with Steam *and* GFWL? Plus I don't want to think of the hack potential of people. With a port of this caliber do you think they added safeguards for hacking? Guess I can dive into the PS3 copy I have and just buy the DLC.

[Pugnate]

Yup. Millions of PC gamers don't own a PS3.

Yes, a real shame. The game goes from a buy at near full price to a Steam sale where it is at bargain bin.

[idolminds]

I was all set to buy. GFWL, internal res, 30FPS...all of it, its fine. Its certainly no worse than the console versions. But digital download only and requiring Steam. Line crossed.

Though maybe I should look. I guess Europe is getting a retail release and I see mention it will also be sold through the Microsoft Marketplace. Will those also require Steam? If not then I may import a UK copy (oh GoGamer, where are you?)

[MysterD]

There's little point in grabbing it on PC...unless you dont have a console to play it.
I dunno...such people might exist.

Ooooh-ooh-ooh!
Me!!!

EDIT:

I was all set to buy. GFWL, internal res, 30FPS...all of it, its fine. Its certainly no worse than the console versions. But digital download only and requiring Steam. Line crossed.

Though maybe I should look. I guess Europe is getting a retail release and I see mention it will also be sold through the Microsoft Marketplace. Will those also require Steam? If not then I may import a UK copy (oh GoGamer, where are you?)

I wish Gogamer was still around, as well - hehe.

I can understand them going w/ G4WL, since game was already on X360. Not much to do, to get it working w/ online Netcode and capabilities there. Makes sense.
My problem w/ G4WL - G4WL can be so problematic, if things go wrong for you. Saves going missing; saves transferring from PC to PC might not work; saves can go corrupt; G4WL not booting; G4WL not connecting to the Net; G4WL won't update itself problem; game won't update properly; and all kinds of other stupidities. These wouldn't be an issue, if M$ would just fix the bloody platform, which they haven't properly done in...ages.

I would've been okay w/ Steam-only or G4WL-only, but requiring both together on digital versions is just plain SILLY.

I'm sure I'll eventually buy it....but, who knows when that'll happen...

[sirean_syan]

Game comes out sometime today and some dude has already made some major headway fixing the resolution. He says he did some work building the framework to his fix before in the space of a week. Without seeing the final product he was able to do something better than the folks who worked on porting the game and then adapted his code within hours of release. Not bad. Not bad at all.

[MysterD]

LOL!!
Oh, man....that makes From Software look pretty bad...

We can always leave it to the awesome PC modding community to fix & improve a PC game...

[MysterD]

Dark Souls: Prepare To Die Edition - PC Version
REVIEWS:

Scored out of 100:
GamingTrend -> 91.
PC Gamer -> 89.

Scored out of 10:
IncGamers -> 10.
GameSpot -> 9.5 -- Written review; Video Review.
IGN -> 9.
Eurogamer -> 9.
GameTrailers -> 8.8
Metro UK -> 8.
AtomicGamer -> 7.
GamingNexus -> 7.

Scored out of 5:
GameSpy -> 4 1/2 stars - reviewed by Desslock.
CheatCodeCentral -> 4.
AVault -> 3.

Grading System (from F to A):
Otaku Study -> B.

No score:
RockPaperShotgun -> "Wot I Think" Article.
Destructoid -> Their thoughts on Dark Souls PC.

[Quemaqua]

I'd love to go through this again. I don't think it's half as hard as some people make it out to be, but what a game. I would truly love to have the time to just sit down and do it again with a new character, or even go back to my old one and work on that NG+.

I'd love to try the PC version sometime, however imperfect.

[nickclone]

I've been looking for another RPG to play, I've got Fallout: New Vegas and Bioshock, but they're not really RPGs (although I like them). I'm still playing Oblivion and I'm no where near done, but my character is pushing level 40 and he really doesn't level up or use any new equipment anymore.

I watch Invisible Walls on Gametrailers and many of them swear by this game, I'll check it out when I get some more ram. I have to be honest though, the difficulty does worry me, as long as the game isn't frustrating.

[Quemaqua]

Very much depends on your definition of frustrating. This is a game where you are expected to figure things out through trial and error, and your hand is never held. It's about as far from Oblivion as you can get. You will never be godlike. You will eventually, at the end of the game, be pretty juiced up and able to smack the shit out of a lot of normal monsters, but the game never gets easy. Every new area is going to present not just new statistical challenges (stronger monsters with more HP, etc.), but new logistical and tactical ones too.

It definitely has its frustrating moments (though on the whole I didn't find it to be a frustrating game), but that's part of what makes the reward so huge.

[K-man]

I'm going to jump into the game in the very near future, I think. Que, is Blighttown really that bad?  All the videos i've seen on Youtube suggest it's no worse than a lot of the areas in Demon's Souls as far as framerate is concerned.

[Quemaqua]

It's pretty bad, yeah. I mean I honestly didn't find that it made the game hard to play or anything. Maybe it killed me once, I don't really remember, but on the whole it isn't so much a problem as it is an annoyance. It's very chuggy. I'm not sure how it relates to stuff in Demon's Souls... I don't recall anything in that game being quite so bad, but I still haven't finished the entire thing, so I'm not really a good judge. Either way, I don't think you need to choose your platform over it. Though if you're picky about that kind of stuff or get super irritated by it, your mileage may vary.

[K-man]

I already have my ps3 copy, I just need to get rid of my current Yakuza infatuation to play it.

[Cobra951]

Dark Souls director considering an easy mode.  Do go on.  I'm paying attention now.  Don't make it a cakewalk.  Challenge is good up to a point.  (Finding that point has to be one of the hardest jobs in game development.)

[Quemaqua]

Stupid waste of time. If you can't deal with the game the way it's currently designed, you really just shouldn't play it. It may sound elitist to say so, but an easy mode violates the core principles the game is designed around and would hollow it in a way it doesn't deserve.

[TheOtherBelmont]

I'm going to have to second what Que said.  I really hope they don't waste their time focusing on an easy mode.  As much as I would like more people to play these games, this is not how to do it.

[Xessive]

Yeah, I don't think my problem with the game was difficulty per se, it was more gameplay format. Dragon's Dogma is no walk in the park but I enjoy that a heck of a lot more.

If you don't enjoy the game as it is, having an "easy mode" won't change that.

[K-man]

Making an "easy mode" essentially removes the very thing that makes the game stand out to begin with.

[Quemaqua]

And to be clear, I feel like that almost gives the impression that there's nothing unique about the game except the difficulty, which really isn't true. It's the way that difficulty is integrated into everything else, and the design philosophy behind it all. A lot I think hangs on that difficulty by design... so it isn't that nothing else is all that unique or great, just that those things are threaded through the difficulty in interesting ways.

[Pugnate]

Stupid waste of time. If you can't deal with the game the way it's currently designed, you really just shouldn't play it. It may sound elitist to say so, but an easy mode violates the core principles the game is designed around and would hollow it in a way it doesn't deserve.

[MysterD]

Here's my question, though...
How many people would play the game on Easy....and then try to replay it again on Hard (i.e. the typical From Software mode)?

THAT would be the mark of a FANTASTIC game...

[Pugnate]

No.

[MysterD]

I'm betting most of the typical From Software fans (used to their brand and style of hardcore games) would SKIP right to Hard Mode....

[Pugnate]

Yes.

[PyroMenace]